[D] Cloak and Burrow - Page 2
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
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Jealous
9974 Posts
On May 27 2016 07:41 Goomf wrote: No, I don't agree. We should be able to see cloaked units. The game is hard as it is. I find that the cloaked units is imbalanced though. I play terran and our cloaked unit is the banshee. The cloak wears off very fast and the banshee is easy to kill. The dark templar however never gets uncloaked and it is like a tiny cloaked ultralisk. You know it never will get visible and if the protoss makes like four of them and puts it in the mineral line you can throw like 20 supply of units against it it and it just chews through them all. And if we scan or have turrets they just go outside the range of it. I think it is way too strong. Man, what year is it? | ||
Solstice245
United States145 Posts
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Barrin
United States5002 Posts
This should at least be normalized as much as possible. | ||
NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
i am truly not trying to be a dick, but every argument against cloak in this thread just sounds like "i'm gold league, i don't scout or build detection, and i'm mad about it". it's like being mad about units being fast - oh wait, low leagues complain about that too (oracle is too fast, DT is too fast, zergling runbys are too fast, mutas are too fast, medivacs are too fast". it's 100% removing depth, it's removing something you don't like because you're bad against it take away cloak and you'll still die to an all-in you didn't scout, or lose 12 workers to a marine drop because you don't have spotter overlords or know build timings. i cheesed out some terran with a delayed proxy 4 void ray rush the other day. the void rays weren't cloaked, the guy just didn't fucking know what was happening and he died because of it. totally idiotic build - should i have won? probably not, but he didn't react to it bottom line: if you want to remove the clickfest/coinflip aspects of RTS like defending unscouted harassment and make everything even steven between the races, why not just play a turn-based strategy game? | ||
WeddingEpisode
United States355 Posts
On May 30 2016 21:21 brickrd wrote: nothing about cloaked units being hard to see makes them hard to play against, it's simply whether you have detection and good reaction time or not i am truly not trying to be a dick, but every argument against cloak in this thread just sounds like "i'm gold league, i don't scout or build detection, and i'm mad about it". it's like being mad about units being fast - oh wait, low leagues complain about that too (oracle is too fast, DT is too fast, zergling runbys are too fast, mutas are too fast, medivacs are too fast". it's 100% removing depth, it's removing something you don't like because you're bad against it take away cloak and you'll still die to an all-in you didn't scout, or lose 12 workers to a marine drop because you don't have spotter overlords or know build timings. i cheesed out some terran with a delayed proxy 4 void ray rush the other day. the void rays weren't cloaked, the guy just didn't fucking know what was happening and he died because of it. totally idiotic build - should i have won? probably not, but he didn't react to it bottom line: if you want to remove the clickfest/coinflip aspects of RTS like defending unscouted harassment and make everything even steven between the races, why not just play a turn-based strategy game? Thank you! 100% cloak would slow down certain situations, or at least intensify certain units' effectiveness, but this just deepens the game, I think. | ||
Goomf
Sweden4 Posts
On May 27 2016 07:41 Goomf wrote: No, I don't agree. We should be able to see cloaked units. The game is hard as it is. I find that the cloaked units is imbalanced though. I play terran and our cloaked unit is the banshee. The cloak wears off very fast and the banshee is easy to kill. The dark templar however never gets uncloaked and it is like a tiny cloaked ultralisk. You know it never will get visible and if the protoss makes like four of them and puts it in the mineral line you can throw like 20 supply of units against it it and it just chews through them all. And if we scan or have turrets they just go outside the range of it. I think it is way too strong. Man, what year is it? I don't know, 2016 maybe? Check a calendar. What size are your shoes? What does anything with this have to do with what we are discussing? Of course we should have cloaked units, but similar strength between the races, and like it already is when it comes to visibility. That is my opinion regardless of year and shoes. | ||
washikie
United States752 Posts
In a series I understand that there are a lot of mind games and things like Dts can be interesting like bluffs in poker are. In the context of ladder though players who do dt opens know nothing about thier opponent and are just flipping coins, mabey with a little weight based on current meta. | ||
Adreaver
26 Posts
This is the opinion of a player who will never reach that ceiling. | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On June 02 2016 07:52 Goomf wrote: I don't know, 2016 maybe? Check a calendar. What size are your shoes? What does anything with this have to do with what we are discussing? Of course we should have cloaked units, but similar strength between the races, and like it already is when it comes to visibility. That is my opinion regardless of year and shoes. I just mean that it is silly to still be crying about the Dark Templar. That got old in 1999. Get good. | ||
Sweetness.751
United States225 Posts
On June 02 2016 07:52 Goomf wrote: I don't know, 2016 maybe? Check a calendar. What size are your shoes? What does anything with this have to do with what we are discussing? Of course we should have cloaked units, but similar strength between the races, and like it already is when it comes to visibility. That is my opinion regardless of year and shoes. ^^ Did you quote yourself then argue the counter point? Am I reading this right? Can someone confirm? | ||
Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On June 06 2016 22:29 Sweetness.751 wrote: ^^ Did you quote yourself then argue the counter point? Am I reading this right? Can someone confirm? He lost a level of quote in some way. "Man, what year is it?" was posted by someone else. | ||
Goomf
Sweden4 Posts
On June 06 2016 22:29 Sweetness.751 wrote: ^^ Did you quote yourself then argue the counter point? Am I reading this right? Can someone confirm? Yes, you are right.I was going to quote like this but I didn't find the quote button the first time :D I have been a long time lurker on this forum, and like six years later I thought, hey, maybe I should write something, so I just copied what the other guys said. I am kind of new at this :D | ||
Goomf
Sweden4 Posts
On June 06 2016 16:25 Jealous wrote: I just mean that it is silly to still be crying about the Dark Templar. That got old in 1999. Get good. Yeah, you have a point there. It isn't impossible to stop or scout. And I certainly have a lot to improve on. Still I think that my point is valid. I am curious about the design. All other races have a timer or some kind of limit on their cloaked units, like you have to burrow or something. I just don't get why the DT doesn't. Most of the things can be solved if we just "get good", but there are others that maybe have to be adressed by Blizzard. I am of course not good enough to know the difference, so it is easier just to whine about it And I agree with everyone that suggests that the units should be able to cloak and the visibility to stay as it is (blurred or something) | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On June 07 2016 04:22 Goomf wrote: Yeah, you have a point there. It isn't impossible to stop or scout. And I certainly have a lot to improve on. Still I think that my point is valid. I am curious about the design. All other races have a timer or some kind of limit on their cloaked units, like you have to burrow or something. I just don't get why the DT doesn't. Most of the things can be solved if we just "get good", but there are others that maybe have to be adressed by Blizzard. I am of course not good enough to know the difference, so it is easier just to whine about it And I agree with everyone that suggests that the units should be able to cloak and the visibility to stay as it is (blurred or something) It's in the lore of Original/BW somewhere. At least you are conscious of it then ^^ | ||
Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On June 07 2016 04:22 Goomf wrote: Yeah, you have a point there. It isn't impossible to stop or scout. And I certainly have a lot to improve on. Still I think that my point is valid. I am curious about the design. All other races have a timer or some kind of limit on their cloaked units, like you have to burrow or something. I just don't get why the DT doesn't. Most of the things can be solved if we just "get good", but there are others that maybe have to be adressed by Blizzard. I am of course not good enough to know the difference, so it is easier just to whine about it And I agree with everyone that suggests that the units should be able to cloak and the visibility to stay as it is (blurred or something) Race X has this, so why doesn't race Y have it? It's a common argument, but fundamentally flawed. The beauty of StarCraft is that the races are very different in a lot of ways. You can't make a comparison of a little detail like that and start complaining about unfair. Zerg supply can fly, why can't pylons? Terran can lose all the workers and still have an income, why can't zerg? Protoss is OP, why isn't terran (). And so on. Just doesn't make sense. | ||
WeddingEpisode
United States355 Posts
really is not much more than running the banshee off. With 100%, the interaction will change, and both player's will have more APM to perform, as the Banshee can truly vanish out of sight and redirect. Again, 100% would just deepen the gameplay. | ||
Nazara
United Kingdom235 Posts
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