I would like to ask you to give me some buildorder or replays that can help me win vs that thing.
PS:I havnt found any pro game with this yet , maybe I cant search.
PPS: Sorry if i made some mistakes, my english isnt perfect.
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danzjee
1 Post
I would like to ask you to give me some buildorder or replays that can help me win vs that thing. PS:I havnt found any pro game with this yet , maybe I cant search. PPS: Sorry if i made some mistakes, my english isnt perfect. | ||
Lucasmus
34 Posts
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
with micro , you can kill all marines with 4-5 stalkers, and win some time for you... after he set uped near your base, you need to have units, on the attack path so they kill tank/marines that going to reinforce. then just get enough stalker,adepts..add SG and few phoenix/voids etc.. when you feel confident, just roll over him..ggwp.. I think i can find replays tommorow. | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5207 Posts
0:01 - I want to say that I fully support your choice of the Blade Master picture. 0:25 - Overall you're pretty solid on your timings for structures which is good, but first pylon and gate were late which delays everything a bit. You had ~190 minerals when the Pylon went down. Not the reason you lost, but something to clean up. 3:29 - Without scouting beyond scouting for proxies early and with no idea what he is doing, you've got a Robo down and a Twilight coming to with two Observers queued up at the Robo. The Twilight is definitely overkill when you don't know what is happening, feels like your being really greedy to me and will just die. 4:00 - Your observer is half way across the map while the Terran is only a few seconds away from your natural, and you have no idea he is there. You que up another observer, for three in total. 4:13 - Your Probe moving out to build your third base runs into the army sieged up outside your base, which is the first moment you realize he is about to attack. Your opponent is one basing, and your Observer hasn't even reached his base yet. You're already dead at this point, your army consists of a MSC and one Adept (not the Stalkers you had been mentioning you would have at 4:10), while his is two Tanks, 10 Marines and a Medivac, most of it outside your base. 4:58 - You leave the game after your opponent attacks, but first you warp in some Stalkers to try and hold but he has a Liberator and Bunkers going down. You don't have Pylons at the front either to Overcharge. I think asking for advice like a build order or a replay won't help you much, because a build order to specifically defeat this 1-1-1 timing blind won't be a good build order if your opponent is expanding. And you need to scout to know what to build. So what you need to do is scout and know this is coming. Here is how: You had an Adept relatively early, but he stayed in your base. He should be moving out early. You can use the Shade ability to scout his natural early without risking him, and then you can figure out if he is one basing (or at least realize he is teching before expanding, which means he is going to attack you). To figure out what units he has exactly you can poke his wall with the Adept, which will force him to bring over a bunch of Marines. Once you know he is one basing (or at least teching before expanding), you knock down your rocks, and possibly his to buy yourself some time on this map. You don't need anymore than one Observer, because that Immortal needs to be out stat. Also, you need to build some pylons at your natural ramp so you can use Photon Overcharge to help defend. Honestly, if that 400 minerals you planned to spend on a third Nexus had been Pylons outside your base and an Immortal was done, you might have held. And as I said, the Twilight was overkill. You tried to get Blink, but it wasn't done by the time the game was over, so it was dead weight that could have been units. Frozen Temple Replay: 3:50 - So far you've done the exact same build, but you went across the map with a Probe after scouting for Proxies. The Probe scout was late, reaching his base at this time, but it sees no expansion, two Marines, and a Reactored Barracks. The Reactor on the Barracks, no expansions and lack of an early Reaper should be alarm bells in your head that a 1-1-1 is coming. 4:18 - You sent an Observer across the map, but instead of having it continue to his base or stop to watch over the main attack path, it is watching over the top destructible rocks. No push that is threatening is going to be using those rocks at that time. Another observer is queued up too. Your opponent's army is just leaving his base at this time with 12 Marines, two Tanks and a Liberator. You only have a MSC and one Adept again, with Blink a little more than a third of the way done. If your Observer had been over the main attack path, you might have been able to react in time, but really the reaction should have come much earlier with the Probe scout. 4:47 - You move out of your base and run into his army. 13 Marines, 3 Tanks and a Liberator versus 3 Stalkers and an Adept. You're dead here, but you did have two Pylons up protecting your natural this game, which buys you some time. This push came at a later timing, but was a bit more scary. Nothing an Immortal or two and some extra warpins can't handle though. So it is basically the same problem, you didn't scout and have no units and all this infrastructure coming up that is dead weight. In the first game it was the Twilight and Blink. In the second game, a Robo and three Observers are built, two sitting over your main Nexus (bad rally?) and one watching the top destructible rocks, none of which saw the attack coming or scouted his base. If you are ahead in economy, as you are in both games, you don't need to try to keep up in tech because you can overwhelm him with numbers. You can cut Probes at ~34ish and just build units. Just a Robo or just a Twilight (though you won't have detection, so I wouldn't recommend it) or even just a Stargate is fine. The build you've chosen is cheesy, taking a massive risk and praying your opponent doesn't attack, and in these game you got punished for it. Your build choice would die to so many different one base Terran builds because of a lack scouting and unit production, such as the 1-1-2, a Thor all-in, even a big three rax all-in or a Marauder/Hellbat all-in. You might be able to blindly counter some of these kind of pushes by blindly going for a DT shrine instead of Blink (still a cheesy way to play). But against this 1-1-1, the Terran plans to siege you up and can build missile turrets since their build includes an Engineering Bay, so if they have a scan you'll just die. Finally, three Observers is unnecessary versus someone on one base. It can be good to have one defensively in the off chance he went cloaked Banshees, but otherwise your chrono and money should be spent on Immortals and Gateway units. And since I mentioned chronoboost, I'll say it wasn't effectively spent. In the second game, at the end of the game you're still chronoing the Twilight, when Blink was long done. I'm confident with more scouting and some build adjustments you can crush these pushes. Good luck. | ||
UchihaAndy
Sweden15 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5207 Posts
I expanded the same way danzjee did, with an early scout (and leaving the Probe in the Terran natural to scout for an Expo which would have worked for me in both of those replays and an early Stalker poke) and had 4 Stalkers, 1 Sentry, 1 Immortal and a MSC at 4:19 (well before the Terran on Ruins attacked) with two Pylons on my natural ramp in time for the attack on Ruins of Endion of 2 Tanks, 10 Marines and a Medivac. And while that is more than enough to stop the Terran push I'd have another warp-in (3 Warp Gates) ready right after the attack began. I stopped at 33 Probes, or full saturation on my main +11 in my natural all on minerals. For the other push at 4:47 that you met at the main attack path on Frozen Temple, 3 Tanks, 13 Marines and a Liberator, I'd have 7 Stalkers, a Sentry, an Immortal (with another halfway done) and a MSC. In what is a 5 minute game, seconds matter, so it is important not to supply block yourself and get your stuff down on time. And masters players should be able to hit these timings. Finally, if you decide to go Stargate versus this all-in, chronoboost a Void Ray out. You won't have enough Phoenixes out for them to do much and an Oracle can't hit air units, runs out of energy and is much softer. Void Rays have a lot of health and can chew through Medivacs, Tanks and Liberators, and their counter Marines, won't have Stim or any upgrades. So that is how you stop it. Good luck. | ||
Sweetness.751
United States225 Posts
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