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France12454 Posts
On May 14 2017 23:50 Sound1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2017 22:35 Karpfen wrote:On May 14 2017 20:46 Sound1 wrote:I have a good question. Can we still talk about all in in LOTV ? I think with LOTV, we have to deal with an early agression (because of 12 harvesters), which can kill your opponent (or not) but without put you far behind economically (for example 3 racks reaper into 2nd and 3th CC in TvZ) With Toss, IMO there is no more all in builds with adept/phoenix play into early 3th nexus for example. Weltall wrote: Imho, focus on macro oriented easy build. You can do pretty well versus terran with little effort, Hell yeah ! (I am Terran I think an all-in is an attack that makes the player who used it pretty much lose if it gets held without doing very big amounts of damage. I believe there are as many all-ins in lotv as in the other expansions. Yeah, OK, I see what you mean, but I think in LOTV the gap is very close between a timing attack with an harvester production stopped, and a timing Attack into macro game (with constant harvester prod during attack) I saw a lot of pro players games with a very late 3th base (so with an early aggressiv play which looked like an all in) and finally end into a macro game. In addition we can see there is no more SCV pull in LOTV (which was a real all in), IMO because of an easier transition between an early aggressiv play and a macro game. Imho there is no more scv pull because it's so easy to buy time now in PvT, with pylon overcharge.
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I did this, for the most part. Don't see why not.
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On May 14 2017 22:36 Zzzapper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2017 18:06 Weltall wrote: There is no way u can get master only by cheese or all in with protoss.
You can get to GM with any race doing only all-ins
Please, tell me what all-in to do versus zerg and terrans that actually works. Especially versus zerg, I would be satisfied even if it brings me a 50% winrate in that matchup. There is nothing like that, as I said before it's pure luck based, like going immo sentry versus a pure roach zerg or adept all in versus a pure ling zerg etc etc I would be glad if you prove i'm wrong
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France12454 Posts
On May 15 2017 03:29 Weltall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2017 22:36 Zzzapper wrote:On May 14 2017 18:06 Weltall wrote: There is no way u can get master only by cheese or all in with protoss.
You can get to GM with any race doing only all-ins Please, tell me what all-in to do versus zerg and terrans that actually works. Especially versus zerg, I would be satisfied even if it brings me a 50% winrate in that matchup. There is nothing like that, as I said before it's pure luck based, like going immo sentry versus a pure roach zerg or adept all in versus a pure ling zerg etc etc I would be glad if you prove i'm wrong sOs builds with bazillion adepts probably do the trick if you execute them well
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On May 14 2017 09:54 Mahanaim wrote: It will be very, very hard to properly play macro builds if you've reached Masters solely through all-ins. So, my suggestion is to keep on playing like Has, because there's nothing wrong (though frustrating to play against) with an all-in style.
Yeah I think you should always try to improve all aspects of your game but as this comment notes - your strength will be in holding the game on the wire with constant all-ins and you will be trying to macro VS people who got there with more macro than you. It just isn't a muscle that you will have prepped once you reach that level. I think focusing on all-ins and refining your decision-making process will be more valuable as long as you stay aware of meta trends and the macro status.
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Hey all! I'm just going through all these messages!
In WoL You start with 8 probes, I usually build two more, and II usually go 10 probe to pylon and 10 probe to the Gateway.
In LOTV you get 12 to starts. Is it better to build 12 Pylon and 12 Gateway? Or build two more probes like WoL and end up with 14/15?
Stalker-All IN.
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You can absolutely all in your way to master league. You can all in your way to professional level of play. Only in professional tournaments where you are playing a best of x series doesnit begin to put you at a disadvantage.
There is more than one way to play Starcraft. Learning all ins and improving micro to an insane level is a completely valid way to play and will build some very useful skills.
Most players reccomend beginners to learn how to macro strongly because then you can 'walk over' lower league opponents and then focus on learning micro later on. This is totally true, but only one way to learn the game. You can do it the other way around as well, and there are plenty of professional players who begin their career with a cheesy style. flash in brood war was originally thought as someone who could only cheese and he became the best macro player to ever play the game.
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On May 15 2017 03:29 Weltall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2017 22:36 Zzzapper wrote:On May 14 2017 18:06 Weltall wrote: There is no way u can get master only by cheese or all in with protoss.
You can get to GM with any race doing only all-ins Please, tell me what all-in to do versus zerg and terrans that actually works. Especially versus zerg, I would be satisfied even if it brings me a 50% winrate in that matchup. There is nothing like that, as I said before it's pure luck based, like going immo sentry versus a pure roach zerg or adept all in versus a pure ling zerg etc etc I would be glad if you prove i'm wrong http://lotv.spawningtool.com/build/52196/ Literally nothing better than this Has build: 9 gate chargelot with 2 prisms.
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On May 15 2017 10:11 SpartanFoL wrote: Hey all! I'm just going through all these messages!
In WoL You start with 8 probes, I usually build two more, and II usually go 10 probe to pylon and 10 probe to the Gateway.
In LOTV you get 12 to starts. Is it better to build 12 Pylon and 12 Gateway? Or build two more probes like WoL and end up with 14/15?
Stalker-All IN. Check Spawning tool for build orders. I don't main P but 12p 12g does not exist I believe. Usual builds open with 14 pylon 15-16 gate.
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Russian Federation104 Posts
I think it's totally doable, well kinda depends on meta also, so its nice to have more than 1 allin in arcenal, if ppl can qualify for wcs with allins like bly, why do you even doubt that one can make it to the masters? If its fun for you why not? Just enjoy your game and see how it goes, if you feel stuck for some reason with no progress try to change things, that's it!
GL and HF
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find a strategy that you can win games with eventually it stops working adapt
rinse repeat:D
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The real downside to always cheesing is that once you start playing the same players more than once and they know who you are, they will destroy you.
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go for it if you want all-ins and aggressive stuff to be part of your eventual style. Otherwise, there's no point.
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6pool into master league still possible too btw? I always cheesed till master, as I levelled my friends accounts xD, you don't want to waste time, right?
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On May 19 2017 17:28 CrymeaTerran wrote: 6pool into master league still possible too btw? I always cheesed till master, as I levelled my friends accounts xD, you don't want to waste time, right? I 6 Pooled in a Diamond 3 match and it turned out great, my opponent was either so distracted or so tilted by all of them that they didn't even bother lifting their buildings away from my Lings and Drones! 11/10 would never do again.
I got cheesed out a while back by someone going 3 Gate Zealot (always on Abyssal Reef, idk how...), learned how to deal with it as I would imagine most people did, but eventually played them again a little higher on the ladder and got crushed by their new Delayed 3 Gate Zealot Pylon Overcharge Plus Probes.
Maybe Literally-Making-Six-Pools or Killing-your-own-Drones-until-you-have-Six Pool until Masters won't work nowadays, but if that dude could get to Diamond with their strategy and I can make Six Pools in a ZvT and win at any level, then Stalker All-Ins (and perhaps eventually other Blink Stalker builds) seems very, very doable.
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I don't think spamming allin while hoping that the opponent react bad is really funny, and you know you are still bad then.
Micro intensive cheesy builds are useful to train your micro ( very useful ) but spam canon rush for example is pointless
Thought the cheesers always ( near) have way more games than me for same Mmr.
You win but you don't improve your skill ( except with micro intensive builds )
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Just do not do dumb cheeses if you care about improving "globally". As DieuCure said, Cannon rushing every game makes you good at cannon rushing but it won't make you much better in any other area.
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United States4883 Posts
On May 14 2017 08:13 TwiggyWan wrote: Has mostly cheesed even to pro tournaments, so why not? The book of protoss bullshit is big enough to vary your strategies once you feel the need. The goal is to win, not to macro.
I will always be proud of that article until the day I die.
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