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On January 09 2011 10:24 Klogon wrote: What a nightmare this turned out to be at the end. Why can't things just run smoothly. geez.
Well at least TLO won and haypro came in 4th
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On January 09 2011 10:07 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 10:05 dmans wrote:On January 09 2011 09:58 eGo.SiGns wrote:On January 09 2011 09:54 dmans wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 09 2011 09:51 Donttazemebro wrote: All the people defending Sjow here are way off. Yes, they lagged big time first game and they left! Not leaving there would have been wrong, but they did. Then, they don't get a CHANCE to fix the issue, have 5 minutes to ask an admin or find another EU caster to invite. If casters say after 3 minutes they fixed the issue and lag again, no one is gonna say anything if it's just not possible to cast. But casters got raged at and threatend and left, cause they didn't want to cause a scene. This was unacceptable of Sjow, to kill all communication there and shows he has zero interest in pleasing any of the thousands of fans watching.
He might be a good player, but still has so much to learn... Come on, TLO also blamed caster because of lag in the chat. Sjow was the first one to say it in chat only. You cant really compare TLO asking a lagging caster to leave the current game and Sjow threatening said caster to never let him cast his games again, if he should not leave the lobby. Greetz sjow: drool sjow: please leave is that threatening? and caster has lagged with skype off before to? is that unacceptable than when Sjow must win every game? You must of missed what Sjow said in the game lobby before the start of the second game. He threatened the caster. He basically said that if the caster doesn't leave, he will never allow him to cast sjow's game in any capacity. Sjow lacked grace and tact. Plus, it wasn't his call. It was the admins.
yeah, that is lacked of grace i had to admit but caster was about to leave already. and the caster like everybody else wanted i think a no lagging game. Is in fact money on the line and the players want to claim the top spot, 250 pounds diffrens between first and second place is alot of money.
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yea like liquidtlo said he came off a loss so he was probably super frustrated(everyone reacts differently), he could have handled the situation differently but i dont see a problem with what he did but thats because as a player i can understand what hes going throught in that moment, im sure the viewers are going to perceive him in a different way but you also need to put yourself in his shoes
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On January 09 2011 10:29 TT1 wrote: yea like liquidtlo said he came off a loss so he was probably super frustrated(everyone reacts differently), he could have handled the situation differently but i dont see a problem with what he did but thats because as a player i can understand what hes going throught in that moment, im sure the viewers are going to perceive him in a different way but you also need to put yourself in his shoes He should also be calm and put himself in the shoes of 5000 viewers, many of them past midnight also, whose momentum he ruined. I just hope he will post an apology, or else he will gain lots of people upset with him. What he did was very far away from profesional, and when you are playing for those ammounts of money of 1 day event and with such a lineup, some profesional behaviour is expected, or at least being friendly.
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I just hate when things like this happen. Sjow should have manners. Asking politely is ok, everything else.. just better to shut up. This just reminds me of the lan happening. Its an e-world but get some self-respect and act like an adult you are.
Ofc its players right to demand a lagger to leave and most likely the lagger (also caster) will stay out of the game when someone askes for it. You think the caster wants to lag and ruin the game. In the stream the caster was all the time worrying if he lagged and was ready to leave all the time.
And the sponsors are offering great prizes and possibilities to the players and player/s just being bitches. Jesus crist. Also if the events wont collect viewers, why would any sponsor want to arrange anything? So players should always to some extent remember to whom they are playing for. Dont think gsl would have any prize pool if there were 0 viewers -> 0 sponsors.
Props for TLO for being a gentleman he is and asking politely and even backing up sjow in here (wich is almost too good mannered). For sjow: take some responsibility and stop being a whiny .. .
Frustration or being tired isnt a reason to act up. One can go to bed and cry it out, if one cant handle the situation.
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I would really let it slide if it was any (or nearly any) other player, as everybody gets stressed out, but it's not the first time Sjow disrespects the audience and/or tournaments in a way, so I do feel it's right for him to get some smack for it. He didn't need this after the whole "I want Morrow to help me get the computer, we're doing nothing wrong" thing.
He seems to genuinely misunderstand why he's even able to play Starcraft for money, and why people put money into e-sports in the first place.
What Sjow effectively did was tell 5k people to **** off. He made a mistake in understandable circumstances, but he still made a mistake, and let it stay at that. There's no need to try to somehow make it not-a-mistake.
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On January 09 2011 10:44 Talin wrote: What Sjow effectively did was tell 5k people to **** off.
Are you serious? Get a sense of perspective please.
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On January 09 2011 10:54 ranjutan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 10:44 Talin wrote: What Sjow effectively did was tell 5k people to **** off. Are you serious? Get a sense of perspective please.
I don't agree with the guy, but would you mind clarifying this 'perspective' you're asking him to get a sense of? Seems to me he is looking at the bigger picture here.
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So TLO won? I switched streams after the two casters left.
Congratulations for a tournament well played! Also congrats to sjow, Select and Haypro for making some money. :D
To the apparent bm issue: sjow might have been rude to the casters, maybe even out of line. But as TLO said, players are under a lot of pressure and nobody wants to deal with technical issues taking the focus away from mentally preparing on the actual game. As long as humans are involved, we will always have to deal with some impulsive and unprofessional behaviour.
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On January 09 2011 10:09 Hatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 09:59 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote: yea but i can understand sjow in some way. he wants a lag free game, the caster was the obstacle and his best weapon to get rid of that is to threaten not letting him cast again. he knows that works, from experience and other players. sometimes not. like in starcraft quick decisions, quick results. someone did that on the esl stream with takesen, he messed with the wrong guys there and got punished, esl is a strong, strikt run, rich organisation. but with such weak admins, bad organisation and backup power punishments, it was worth the try for him to get rid of a problem. worked very effective. even viewers nerdrage forced a ragequit.tv to ragequit.tv. isnt that a sentence? So you are saying that anything that works is proper and therefore excusable? To me, he can do whatever he wants to achieve whatever goals he has. I understand that. But at the same time I still have the right to feel that he behaved (not for the first time) with a huge lack of tact and in an immensely childish manner. we are on par. exactly. i understand him, but the way it acted out was wrong. we never leave the learning process.
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So are there or will there be replays? I don't see any on the brackets or anything.
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So, did sjow actually get informed that the caster had "fixed" his internet? Which he had no response to, or what?
I didn't watch the later part of the tournament, but wasn't the caster in fact from the US? I mean it's not uncommon to lag on EU servers even by normal standards if that's the case.
Also, isn't it the admins responsibility to make sure the tournament is being casted, and not something the players have to worry about, or even complain about. They must've had an admin obsing that game so it's really their fault for not taking action.
I'm not relieving sjow of all his BM but it's certainly not HIS fault that 5k people couldn't get to watch the rest of the tournament.
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Yo
I have to say, that the lags were terrible. I lost a game to Sarens, which knocked me out mainly because of a huge lag.
It was all kinds of things. PCs being too slow for big fights, huge latency, probably because the LAN set up sucked, constant 2-3 second game freezes, also probably related to the network. It was the worst when u had the official caster in.
If you are playing for money, its really really frustrating, especially if its happening all the effing time, for the 8 hours you are sitting at the computer. I'm not really sure what happened with the streams, but just to let u know, as someone who took part in the event, the lags were terrible, and all the casters/organizers knew about it, and not much was done to fix it. Not to mention the annoying casters who didn't want to leave.
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SjoW made one spur of the moment comment and all this complaining? Weird.
I'd be pissed too if my previous game had frozen 2-3 times because of the casters alone and they still rejoined.
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On January 09 2011 11:19 oursblanc wrote: SjoW made one spur of the moment comment and all this complaining? Weird.
I'd be pissed too if my previous game had frozen 2-3 times because of the casters alone and they still rejoined. Thanks for your real wise post to this thread. People are obviously only indirectly pissed at his comment, moreso because it was the reason they could not watch the finals, that they were waiting for, live. Think before posting...
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On January 09 2011 11:25 Donttazemebro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:19 oursblanc wrote: SjoW made one spur of the moment comment and all this complaining? Weird.
I'd be pissed too if my previous game had frozen 2-3 times because of the casters alone and they still rejoined. Thanks for your real wise post to this thread. People are obviously only indirectly pissed at his comment, moreso because it was the reason they could not watch the finals, that they were waiting for, live. Think before posting... Then they should be disappointed at the connection problems, not at a player.
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On January 09 2011 11:05 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 10:09 Hatsu wrote:On January 09 2011 09:59 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote: yea but i can understand sjow in some way. he wants a lag free game, the caster was the obstacle and his best weapon to get rid of that is to threaten not letting him cast again. he knows that works, from experience and other players. sometimes not. like in starcraft quick decisions, quick results. someone did that on the esl stream with takesen, he messed with the wrong guys there and got punished, esl is a strong, strikt run, rich organisation. but with such weak admins, bad organisation and backup power punishments, it was worth the try for him to get rid of a problem. worked very effective. even viewers nerdrage forced a ragequit.tv to ragequit.tv. isnt that a sentence? So you are saying that anything that works is proper and therefore excusable? To me, he can do whatever he wants to achieve whatever goals he has. I understand that. But at the same time I still have the right to feel that he behaved (not for the first time) with a huge lack of tact and in an immensely childish manner. we are on par. exactly. i understand him, but the way it acted out was wrong. we never leave the learning process.
Yes indeed. I think Sjow will actually learn from this (and all the other episodes involving him), he does not strike me as a stupid individual. It's just that it should get to a point where this is run professionally and played professionally. A player should never dare to behave like that, and if he does he should get punished. At the same time, however, players should have someone to go complain to if they feel there is a problem. Anyone who has ever played, for example, tennis on a competitive level will know what I am talking about. The SC2 pro scene has a long way to go when it comes to that (at least outside Korea, I guess), and in the end of the day it comes down to both players and organisers to get into the right mindset.
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All i ever read is "If you are playing for money lags are really frustrating", theres noone arguing that.
Lag is even annoying if you arent playing for money. BUT the whole reason why you guys have the opportunity to earn money while playing is because there are people out there, that are willing to tune in to those events.
So,i guess we should just leave it at that: What Sjow did may have been understandable but it was just bm, since he ignored those 6.5k viewers (that was the peak, obviously it dropped quite fast). He can probably life with it and wont care, and most players may have the same opinion, but many fans and viewers are not ok with that kind of behavior.
Therefore you dont really have to wonder why guys like TLO get 10 times the love sjow does. But heck, since it wont really affect his money he's probably fine with it anyway.
greetz & gn8
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On January 09 2011 11:33 oursblanc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 11:25 Donttazemebro wrote:On January 09 2011 11:19 oursblanc wrote: SjoW made one spur of the moment comment and all this complaining? Weird.
I'd be pissed too if my previous game had frozen 2-3 times because of the casters alone and they still rejoined. Thanks for your real wise post to this thread. People are obviously only indirectly pissed at his comment, moreso because it was the reason they could not watch the finals, that they were waiting for, live. Think before posting... Then they should be disappointed at the connection problems, not at a player. Omg, read the thread. The problem from the first game was pinpointed and the caster did not get a chance to explain.
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