Welcome to the Korean StarCraft II League Daily! The KSL is sponsored by own3d.tv and can be viewed as an European event series that features the Korean Pro-Teams. The KSL is a series of daily matches between top players from the teams Prime, NSHoSeo, MVP, ZeNEX, StarTale, Incredible Miracle, Fnatic and FXOpen.
Matches will be broadcast by a variety of commentators including KatuStarcraft (English), Khaldor (English), TaKeSeN (German), TheKSL (Korean), GoodGameRU (Russian) , sc2tv.ru (Russian) as well as a German commentator.
somehow every protoss on this map builds their gate perfectly for a terran to make a wallin with bunkers. First gate 4 fields or more away from the cliffs x3. But i guess no one expects pressure on this map, which is a big mistake.
On February 12 2012 23:59 Badfatpanda wrote: wait what happened I just got back from brushing my teeth and it looks like the game is over....? rine scv allin or what? lol
Gumibear did the cheesiest of the cheesy rine/SCv all in with bunkers built everywhere.
On February 12 2012 23:59 Badfatpanda wrote: wait what happened I just got back from brushing my teeth and it looks like the game is over....? rine scv allin or what? lol
Gumibear did the cheesiest of the cheesy rine/SCv all in with bunkers built everywhere.
oh nvm then I thought he played another game lol, still 3-0 thanks
Sorry for all inconvenience caused. Nobody was able to create this LR thread before the games started, so I created it. I will update OP in 6 hour's time (when i wake up). Cheers!
On February 13 2012 00:09 SeaSwift wrote: Is this the cheesiest teamleague game ever?
Whats wrong with cheese?
I didn't say there was anything wrong with it...
You said it with such a bad taste in the voice
Fair enough. I honestly don't mind, tbh. As long as it's either funny or clever play. If it were just proxy 2rax all day long, I'd get bored, but I like smart cheese. My favourite cheese ever was TheStC's proxy 2 factory in the middle of TDA vs Bomber.
I don't like the play of this Protoss. Seems a bit aimless to me.
That game was interesting. The third looks almost untouchable on cloud kingdom which resulted in Jjakji being in a difficult situation of trying to punish a protoss who was behind but the ramp made it so hard :/
On February 13 2012 00:32 WigglingSquid wrote: Terran players have really been looking lost in vP lategame.
Agreed. TvP looks sooooo P favoured lategame. Either Terran needs to figure out something new or Terran needs a buff.
To a certain extent, I feel like they have overreacted to the EMP nerf. They were once able to blanket-EMP the whole Protoss army and roll over it; now that they can't, they are not even trying to. I think that 50% area reduction might have been too drastic, or perphaps Terran players should be content with blanketing half of the enemy's army... the problem is that all decent protoss players have finally started microing their templars correctly, and they are much more dangerous now. This game was a good example of this, with Jjakji barely sniping a handful of HTs and being costantly storm-showered by unscouted ones.
On February 13 2012 00:35 VoirDire wrote: Jjakji needs to drop more. P is just too strong in a late-game straight up battle.
Its pretty hard to drop, concidering most competent protoss players with templar tech tend to keep cannon + 1 high templar in the back of each their bases.
Can't really drop effective on cloud kingdom vs 3 base P... Hopefully storm will get a radius nerf soon as well... Too many late game fights come down to aoes
On February 13 2012 00:32 WigglingSquid wrote: Terran players have really been looking lost in vP lategame.
Agreed. TvP looks sooooo P favoured lategame. Either Terran needs to figure out something new or Terran needs a buff.
To a certain extent, I feel like they have overreacted to the EMP nerf. They were once able to blanket-EMP the whole Protoss army and roll over it; now that they can't, they are not even trying to. I think that 50% area reduction might have been too drastic, or perphaps Terran players should be content with blanketing half of the enemy's army... the problem is that all decent protoss players have finally started microing their templars correctly, and they are much more dangerous now. This game was a good example of this, with Jjakji barely sniping a handful of HTs and being costantly storm-showered by unscouted ones.
Agreed. I think this map is only exacerbating the problem. All those tight corridors make splash and forcefields absurdly good.
As an aside, I think TvP is going to end up as one of those matchups where one side (Terran) needs to capitalise on their early-game advantage and hurt the other side (Protoss) so that lategame is less P favoured.
Also, Hellions. Early-midgame, if you can squeeze out Hellions in a TvP they are great vs a) workers, b) Chargelots in those corridors and c) for picking off HTs if you keep them around later on.
On February 13 2012 00:49 vthree wrote: Problem with hellions is they are on different upgrade path then infantry... With P army, they just need double forge and get ground ups
Indeed. Blizzard's direction for hellions (and the generally favorable attitude toward mech in general) seems quite clear on HoTS: they want them to counter zealots. It will be a very different game. Meanwhile, though, I would be content with finding balanced parameters for the races' spellcasters. I really feel like there is not that much betatesting going on behind the scenes, giving how simplistic are the numerics for SC2.
I think the current PvT metagame is just a reflection of blizzard not working for game to develop and nerfing terran too hard. With immortal buff, it feels like protoss can beat terran armies in any stage of the game while terran has to utilise its many tech paths to try to throw the protoss off guard.
Don't really like the state of the current TvP game. Ideally, you always want 2 late game armies to be able to beat each other with the only factor the skill of the players. Not have 1 race stronger early game while the other is stronger late game to balance it out.
wait what? +2 blink is a build you don't want to do against a 3base zerg... Isn't that the whole purpose of the build? Try to catch an opponent on bad tech and low unit count, rather than run a 2base blink allin into a 2base infestor allin?
On February 13 2012 00:32 WigglingSquid wrote: Terran players have really been looking lost in vP lategame.
Agreed. TvP looks sooooo P favoured lategame. Either Terran needs to figure out something new or Terran needs a buff.
To a certain extent, I feel like they have overreacted to the EMP nerf. They were once able to blanket-EMP the whole Protoss army and roll over it; now that they can't, they are not even trying to. I think that 50% area reduction might have been too drastic, or perphaps Terran players should be content with blanketing half of the enemy's army... the problem is that all decent protoss players have finally started microing their templars correctly, and they are much more dangerous now. This game was a good example of this, with Jjakji barely sniping a handful of HTs and being costantly storm-showered by unscouted ones.
Agreed. I think this map is only exacerbating the problem. All those tight corridors make splash and forcefields absurdly good.
As an aside, I think TvP is going to end up as one of those matchups where one side (Terran) needs to capitalise on their early-game advantage and hurt the other side (Protoss) so that lategame is less P favoured.
Also, Hellions. Early-midgame, if you can squeeze out Hellions in a TvP they are great vs a) workers, b) Chargelots in those corridors and c) for picking off HTs if you keep them around later on.
People really need to stop suggesting hellions, there's a reason pros don't use them, the upgrades are completely inefficient for the bulk of an army, and you even need upgrade them since the bf nerf if you want to use them against chargelots, marines are just so much more cost effect and easier to produce and maintain. Hellions suck TvP, except for early game shenanigans they serve no purpose.
On February 13 2012 00:32 WigglingSquid wrote: Terran players have really been looking lost in vP lategame.
Agreed. TvP looks sooooo P favoured lategame. Either Terran needs to figure out something new or Terran needs a buff.
To a certain extent, I feel like they have overreacted to the EMP nerf. They were once able to blanket-EMP the whole Protoss army and roll over it; now that they can't, they are not even trying to. I think that 50% area reduction might have been too drastic, or perphaps Terran players should be content with blanketing half of the enemy's army... the problem is that all decent protoss players have finally started microing their templars correctly, and they are much more dangerous now. This game was a good example of this, with Jjakji barely sniping a handful of HTs and being costantly storm-showered by unscouted ones.
Agreed. I think this map is only exacerbating the problem. All those tight corridors make splash and forcefields absurdly good.
As an aside, I think TvP is going to end up as one of those matchups where one side (Terran) needs to capitalise on their early-game advantage and hurt the other side (Protoss) so that lategame is less P favoured.
Also, Hellions. Early-midgame, if you can squeeze out Hellions in a TvP they are great vs a) workers, b) Chargelots in those corridors and c) for picking off HTs if you keep them around later on.
People really need to stop suggesting hellions, there's a reason pros don't use them, the upgrades are completely inefficient for the bulk of an army, and you even need upgrade them since the bf nerf if you want to use them against chargelots, marines are just so much more cost effect and easier to produce and maintain. Hellions suck TvP, except for early game shenanigans they serve no purpose.
Earlygame shenanigans is exactly what I recommended them for...
funny role reversal seeing someone known in the past for being extremely aggressive dying to a one base all in while going triple orbital hehe. Big turn around from San, heroic performance to get NSHS back to level footing :O
On February 13 2012 01:15 Asha` wrote: He'SANstoppable
funny role reversal seeing someone known in the past for being extremely aggressive dying to a one base all in while going triple orbital hehe. Big turn around from San, heroic performance :O
San also used to be known as the MacroToss, back when San/Tester/MC were the big 3 Protoss over a year ago.
A very ironic game, it seems.
Ace match: San vs Lucky!
edit: ok, not an ace match. I'm talking bollocks. It's actually a Bo11.
On February 13 2012 01:01 Noocta wrote: lol, KSL is 360p free only now ?
Seems like it, i really like Ksl a lot but 10$/month seems pretty steep when gsl offers a 2 month studio produced season for 15$.
also, i cant begin to describe how happy i am that san is back!
That's so sad. It seems everyone is trying to make koreans unwatchable unless you pay. 360p free is bad. I can watch at 480p but comon.. 360p you can't even read the supply.
On February 13 2012 01:01 Noocta wrote: lol, KSL is 360p free only now ?
Seems like it, i really like Ksl a lot but 10$/month seems pretty steep when gsl offers a 2 month studio produced season for 15$.
also, i cant begin to describe how happy i am that san is back!
That's so sad. It seems everyone is trying to make koreans unwatchable unless you pay. 360p free is bad. I can watch at 480p but comon.. 360p you can't even read the supply.
these are the times where I am happy to have only a relatively small monitor. ^^"
On February 13 2012 00:32 WigglingSquid wrote: Terran players have really been looking lost in vP lategame.
Agreed. TvP looks sooooo P favoured lategame. Either Terran needs to figure out something new or Terran needs a buff.
To a certain extent, I feel like they have overreacted to the EMP nerf. They were once able to blanket-EMP the whole Protoss army and roll over it; now that they can't, they are not even trying to. I think that 50% area reduction might have been too drastic, or perphaps Terran players should be content with blanketing half of the enemy's army... the problem is that all decent protoss players have finally started microing their templars correctly, and they are much more dangerous now. This game was a good example of this, with Jjakji barely sniping a handful of HTs and being costantly storm-showered by unscouted ones.
Agreed. I think this map is only exacerbating the problem. All those tight corridors make splash and forcefields absurdly good.
As an aside, I think TvP is going to end up as one of those matchups where one side (Terran) needs to capitalise on their early-game advantage and hurt the other side (Protoss) so that lategame is less P favoured.
Also, Hellions. Early-midgame, if you can squeeze out Hellions in a TvP they are great vs a) workers, b) Chargelots in those corridors and c) for picking off HTs if you keep them around later on.
People really need to stop suggesting hellions, there's a reason pros don't use them, the upgrades are completely inefficient for the bulk of an army, and you even need upgrade them since the bf nerf if you want to use them against chargelots, marines are just so much more cost effect and easier to produce and maintain. Hellions suck TvP, except for early game shenanigans they serve no purpose.
Earlygame shenanigans is exactly what I recommended them for...
you said early-midgame and chargelots, can't get chargelots that early and 1 base plays are really the only functional use for hellions, Terran's have never had a problem allining so I don't think hellions will solve late game TvP >.>
On February 13 2012 01:01 Noocta wrote: lol, KSL is 360p free only now ?
Seems like it, i really like Ksl a lot but 10$/month seems pretty steep when gsl offers a 2 month studio produced season for 15$.
also, i cant begin to describe how happy i am that san is back!
That's so sad. It seems everyone is trying to make koreans unwatchable unless you pay. 360p free is bad. I can watch at 480p but comon.. 360p you can't even read the supply.
these are the times where I am happy to have only a relatively small monitor. ^^"
On February 13 2012 01:37 MrCon wrote: Let's complain about this amazing tournament because they want to charge 5€ a month to survive >< I'm in 360p, the supplies are 42/44 and 35/36.
When there's so many other tournaments with better free quality, 360p is something that will cut in your viewer count quite a lot. ( and i'(m usualy not someone who complain about quality that much.. i watch players stream in 480p :/ ) I don't really care in the long run, but it will probably make me watch less of KSL and more of IPL stuff for example.
On February 13 2012 00:32 WigglingSquid wrote: Terran players have really been looking lost in vP lategame.
Agreed. TvP looks sooooo P favoured lategame. Either Terran needs to figure out something new or Terran needs a buff.
To a certain extent, I feel like they have overreacted to the EMP nerf. They were once able to blanket-EMP the whole Protoss army and roll over it; now that they can't, they are not even trying to. I think that 50% area reduction might have been too drastic, or perphaps Terran players should be content with blanketing half of the enemy's army... the problem is that all decent protoss players have finally started microing their templars correctly, and they are much more dangerous now. This game was a good example of this, with Jjakji barely sniping a handful of HTs and being costantly storm-showered by unscouted ones.
Agreed. I think this map is only exacerbating the problem. All those tight corridors make splash and forcefields absurdly good.
As an aside, I think TvP is going to end up as one of those matchups where one side (Terran) needs to capitalise on their early-game advantage and hurt the other side (Protoss) so that lategame is less P favoured.
Also, Hellions. Early-midgame, if you can squeeze out Hellions in a TvP they are great vs a) workers, b) Chargelots in those corridors and c) for picking off HTs if you keep them around later on.
People really need to stop suggesting hellions, there's a reason pros don't use them, the upgrades are completely inefficient for the bulk of an army, and you even need upgrade them since the bf nerf if you want to use them against chargelots, marines are just so much more cost effect and easier to produce and maintain. Hellions suck TvP, except for early game shenanigans they serve no purpose.
Earlygame shenanigans is exactly what I recommended them for...
you said early-midgame and chargelots, can't get chargelots that early and 1 base plays are really the only functional use for hellions, Terran's have never had a problem allining so I don't think hellions will solve late game TvP >.>
I said Chargelots/HTs if you save them for later. I don't mean using Hellions as the bulk of your army - unless you have a massive advantage for some reason, it's far better to go for MMM.
Hellions are good for getting ahead early. I think the word "all-in" is a bit overdone here - Hellions can do good economic damage without being all-in.
I don't think using the Hellions lategame are the solution, so much as using the Hellions early to get ahead so that your lategame is much better could be.
If it seemed like I meant just mass Hellions, my apologies. That really isn't what I intended.
Lucky played so well up until the big engagement with the broods, and then he decides to remax on roaches even though there were still 4 collosi left:/
On February 13 2012 01:52 MegaFonzie wrote: Oz or Leenock?
Probably Oz because leenock is weak at ZvP combined with sage being really good at PvZ leenock would probably be suicide. It will definitely be Oz because sage is bad at PvP.
On February 13 2012 01:37 MrCon wrote: Let's complain about this amazing tournament because they want to charge 5€ a month to survive >< I'm in 360p, the supplies are 42/44 and 35/36.
When there's so many other tournaments with better free quality, 360p is something that will cut in your viewer count quite a lot. ( and i'(m usualy not someone who complain about quality that much.. i watch players stream in 480p :/ ) I don't really care in the long run, but it will probably make me watch less of KSL and more of IPL stuff for example.
i know, sorry if my post was a little aggressive. KSL bring me my daily high level dose of sc2, it's really one tourney I won't mind giving some money to. The 360p is a little better than the gom free stream for instance, and I watched the gom free stream for nearly a year before I started paying.
Sniping the Warp Prism and forcing the cancel on all the stalkers during a crucial battle outside Leenock's natural was pretty significant in my opinion. Can't believe that Sage went nexus first and survived Leenock's all in, and still ended up losing. That must suck for him.
Wow sage just threw that away. Although it is nearly impossible to win once mutas get out, he still could have built like 6 cannons to secure his third. Or warp prismed his army in to avoid the 10 spines.
On February 13 2012 07:32 Brootalbro wrote: Is it just me or is jjakji going on a downward spiral in terms of versus Protoss
Yeah but, that can be said for most Terrans. Protoss have been stepping up their games recently, and honestly 3-0'ing Puzzle doesn't say much as Puzzle is one of the most hot or not players out there. His series against Oz in the semis was a much closer 3-2. I think it has alot to do with his macro-oriented play style and this was really made obvious in his matches against Parting this past Ro.16.
On the other hand his TvT has seen some improvement as of late, thinking that is what he has been concentrating on as it was and still is his weakest match up.
Also really impressed with Leenock and his improving vP.