On March 13 2012 13:04 jeeneeus wrote:
lol hwangsin let every baneling in.
lol hwangsin let every baneling in.
Yeah missing that one FF completely changed the game. The banelings got in and evaporated his army.
Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42213 Posts
On March 13 2012 13:04 jeeneeus wrote: lol hwangsin let every baneling in. Yeah missing that one FF completely changed the game. The banelings got in and evaporated his army. | ||
TheHova
United Kingdom2612 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5207 Posts
Haypro is not playing well. | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42213 Posts
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
On March 13 2012 13:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Pretty obvious 3-1 >.> Meh, I wouldn't personally agree. I thought DDE vs TLO was a toss up, and that Vibe and Haypro both had a pretty good shot, though their opponents were the favorites. | ||
Cornstyle
United States147 Posts
Overall Haypro has not been performing to the level one would expect of a Team Liquid progamer. Yes, there are many arguements for other players who, while not being amongst the top players still contribute in very meaningful ( lucrative) ways to their team. However Haypro has time and again showed a substandard level of play. It couldn't have been more obvious than the snickering that went on between Machine and Demuslim that they expected Haypro to lose in the clan match here. Liquid is well known for their loyalty to players, but when teams like EG demonstrate their goal is to further their brand, through media and player excellence, that I hope Liquid follows suit to some degree and begins to focus more on their overall team structure and cutting lose the players that are not holding to their high degree of excellence, both in game and out. EDIT: I feel in order for Liquid to contine to compete with EG they need to evaluate their players and their worth to the team brand as a whole. Liquid is the premiere English speaking SC2 team. They may well lose a large portion of their American audience to EG if they don't begin to adopt some of the business practices of their competitor. I love TL and root for them above all, and yes as a whole the team has been performing amazingly (see the TL all kill of EG by Sheth) Haypro however has been one of the least successful TL'ers since the launch of SC2, both in media and in-game. | ||
Shellshock
United States97248 Posts
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Battousai13
United States638 Posts
On March 13 2012 13:38 Cornstyle wrote: I realize this has been a sometimes touchy subject but here goes: Overall Haypro has not been performing to the level one would expect of a Team Liquid progamer. Yes, there are many arguements for other players who, while not being amongst the top players still contribute in very meaningful ( lucrative) ways to their team. However Haypro has time and again showed a substandard level of play. It couldn't have been more obvious than the snickering that went on between Machine and Demuslim that they expected Haypro to lose in the clan match here. Liquid is well known for their loyalty to players, but when teams like EG demonstrate their goal is to further their brand, through media and player excellence, that I hope Liquid follows suit to some degree and begins to focus more on their overall team structure and cutting lose the players that are not holding to their high degree of excellence, both in game and out. In that same vein, you're suggesting cutting NonY and Jinro as well. Liquid's ability to grow players is one of its greatest strengths. They're not out to sign the hottest names. | ||
bennyaus
Australia1833 Posts
On March 13 2012 13:38 Cornstyle wrote: I realize this has been a sometimes touchy subject but here goes: Overall Haypro has not been performing to the level one would expect of a Team Liquid progamer. Yes, there are many arguements for other players who, while not being amongst the top players still contribute in very meaningful ( lucrative) ways to their team. However Haypro has time and again showed a substandard level of play. It couldn't have been more obvious than the snickering that went on between Machine and Demuslim that they expected Haypro to lose in the clan match here. Liquid is well known for their loyalty to players, but when teams like EG demonstrate their goal is to further their brand, through media and player excellence, that I hope Liquid follows suit to some degree and begins to focus more on their overall team structure and cutting lose the players that are not holding to their high degree of excellence, both in game and out. EDIT: I feel in order for Liquid to contine to compete with EG they need to evaluate their players and their worth to the team brand as a whole. Liquid is the premiere English speaking SC2 team. They may well lose a large portion of their American audience to EG if they don't begin to adopt some of the business practices of their competitor. I love TL and root for them above all, and yes as a whole the team has been performing amazingly (see the TL all kill of EG by Sheth) Haypro however has been one of the least successful TL'ers since the launch of SC2, both in media and in-game. I feel that you misunderstand Team Liquid and shouldn't be talking in regards to their goals and how they should achieve them. Nevermind the fact that your post is filled with ignorance about compared performances between teams. Haypro has proven that he is worthy of the Liquid tag on results alone, yet at the end of the day it is irrelevant because the only people it matters to, that he proves that he is worthy to Liquid, is Liquid itself. | ||
GwSC
United States1997 Posts
On March 13 2012 13:55 bennyaus wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 13:38 Cornstyle wrote: I realize this has been a sometimes touchy subject but here goes: Overall Haypro has not been performing to the level one would expect of a Team Liquid progamer. Yes, there are many arguements for other players who, while not being amongst the top players still contribute in very meaningful ( lucrative) ways to their team. However Haypro has time and again showed a substandard level of play. It couldn't have been more obvious than the snickering that went on between Machine and Demuslim that they expected Haypro to lose in the clan match here. Liquid is well known for their loyalty to players, but when teams like EG demonstrate their goal is to further their brand, through media and player excellence, that I hope Liquid follows suit to some degree and begins to focus more on their overall team structure and cutting lose the players that are not holding to their high degree of excellence, both in game and out. EDIT: I feel in order for Liquid to contine to compete with EG they need to evaluate their players and their worth to the team brand as a whole. Liquid is the premiere English speaking SC2 team. They may well lose a large portion of their American audience to EG if they don't begin to adopt some of the business practices of their competitor. I love TL and root for them above all, and yes as a whole the team has been performing amazingly (see the TL all kill of EG by Sheth) Haypro however has been one of the least successful TL'ers since the launch of SC2, both in media and in-game. I feel that you misunderstand Team Liquid and shouldn't be talking in regards to their goals and how they should achieve them. Nevermind the fact that your post is filled with ignorance about compared performances between teams. Haypro has proven that he is worthy of the Liquid tag on results alone, yet at the end of the day it is irrelevant because the only people it matters to, that he proves that he is worthy to Liquid, is Liquid itself. Pretty much this. Plus, having arguably THE SC community website takes care a lot of the media stuff on its own, so TL doesn't necessarily need players to be going crazy trying to generate exposure. | ||
GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
On March 13 2012 13:38 Cornstyle wrote: I realize this has been a sometimes touchy subject but here goes: Overall Haypro has not been performing to the level one would expect of a Team Liquid progamer. Yes, there are many arguements for other players who, while not being amongst the top players still contribute in very meaningful ( lucrative) ways to their team. However Haypro has time and again showed a substandard level of play. It couldn't have been more obvious than the snickering that went on between Machine and Demuslim that they expected Haypro to lose in the clan match here. Liquid is well known for their loyalty to players, but when teams like EG demonstrate their goal is to further their brand, through media and player excellence, that I hope Liquid follows suit to some degree and begins to focus more on their overall team structure and cutting lose the players that are not holding to their high degree of excellence, both in game and out. EDIT: I feel in order for Liquid to contine to compete with EG they need to evaluate their players and their worth to the team brand as a whole. Liquid is the premiere English speaking SC2 team. They may well lose a large portion of their American audience to EG if they don't begin to adopt some of the business practices of their competitor. I love TL and root for them above all, and yes as a whole the team has been performing amazingly (see the TL all kill of EG by Sheth) Haypro however has been one of the least successful TL'ers since the launch of SC2, both in media and in-game. And how has idra, or machine, or lzgamer, or incontrol done? I mean, really~ | ||
Fishriot
United States621 Posts
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Balgrog
United States1221 Posts
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Cornstyle
United States147 Posts
In that same vein, you're suggesting cutting NonY and Jinro as well. Liquid's ability to grow players is one of its greatest strengths. They're not out to sign the hottest names. I specifically mentioned the fact that some players, NonY in particular, contribute much more to the team than just finishes in tournaments. Jinro as well, he has at least some very very significant finishes in his career that allow him to remain on the team. List some important tournaments that Haypro has either won or placed highly in. Yes Jinro never won a GSL but he has the best finish of any foreigner in the GSL so far. I feel that you misunderstand Team Liquid and shouldn't be talking in regards to their goals and how they should achieve them. Nevermind the fact that your post is filled with ignorance about compared performances between teams. Haypro has proven that he is worthy of the Liquid tag on results alone, yet at the end of the day it is irrelevant because the only people it matters to, that he proves that he is worthy to Liquid, is Liquid itself. I do not meant to presume TL's goals. However when basically every other member of their team is either furthering the brand through either media, NonY, or finishes within SC2, (essentially the rest of TL) Haypro is lagging behind. I mean nothing against Haypro personally, yet you cannot deny the fact that both Machine and Demuslim both clearly stated that if there was one of TL they expected to lose, it was Haypro. In addition Haypro does next to notheing to further the TL name in terms of media. The same cannot be said of the EG members who's results don't match with their standing with the team/ community. Am I asking Tl to cut him this instant? No. But the fact remains that I question his value to the team when you compare the work done by the other foreigner teams in regards to talent and or marketability. | ||
Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On March 13 2012 14:11 Cornstyle wrote: Am I asking Tl to cut him this instant? No. But the fact remains that I question his value to the team when you compare the work done by the other foreigner teams in regards to talent and or marketability. You're not in a position to evaluate his contributions to the team. | ||
Cornstyle
United States147 Posts
And how has idra, or machine, or lzgamer, or incontrol done? I mean, really~ I specifically mentioned the ability of a player to add revenue to his team. Whether this is through drama (Idra), or contributions to the community like Incontrol. Machine as well is at least being marketed well, however it is certainly fair to lump him into the same group as Haypro. All I'm saying is questioning their relative worth to their teams. If Haypro could begin to be marketed through TL then sure. It just seems when a plaryer isn't contributing to his team in a meaningful way, they are on the border to be cut, such as the recent EG cuts. EG has shown they are very interested in furthering their own brand. Do they need TL to further their exposure? Absoluely as the WEBSITE TL is the premier SC2 site. But the TEAM TL has to comete with the TEAM EG for their own brand. I am not questioning the websites ability to keep its present course, only the progaming team. They are stuck in an arms race with EG, see the Puma and Hero signings. By and by they are keeping pace. But EG has shown a cold business accumen in terms of getting rid of dead weight. | ||
GwSC
United States1997 Posts
On March 13 2012 14:18 Cornstyle wrote: I specifically mentioned the ability of a player to add revenue to his team. Whether this is through drama (Idra), or contributions to the community like Incontrol. Machine as well is at least being marketed well, however it is certainly fair to lump him into the same group as Haypro. All I'm saying is questioning their relative worth to their teams. If Haypro could begin to be marketed through TL then sure. It just seems when a plaryer isn't contributing to his team in a meaningful way, they are on the border to be cut, such as the recent EG cuts. EG has shown they are very interested in furthering their own brand. Do they need TL to further their exposure? Absoluely as the WEBSITE TL is the premier SC2 site. But the TEAM TL has to comete with the TEAM EG for their own brand. I am not questioning the websites ability to keep its present course, only the progaming team. They are stuck in an arms race with EG, see the Puma and Hero signings. By and by they are keeping pace. But EG has shown as cold business accumen in terms of getting rid of dead weight. Maybe TL doesn't think about its players exclusively in terms of how much money they can make for the team, and they have determined they are competing/keeping up well enough without having to cut a long time friend and teammate? | ||
Cornstyle
United States147 Posts
You're not in a position to evaluate his contributions to the team. Haha obviously I am not. However when you look at how a player helps his team's brand, Haypro seems to be lagging behind when looking at the total package. I understand there is a ton of loyalty to Haypro based upon the fact he is part of TL. But please, anyone who acutally watched this series, what were your thoughts to Demuslim and Machines comments about how they were not in the least bit surprised that Haypro was the one TLer to lose? Fine for all your loyalty, but when other PROGAMERS are questioning him on air, what gives for the blind loyalty? | ||
YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
On March 13 2012 14:11 Cornstyle wrote: Show nested quote + In that same vein, you're suggesting cutting NonY and Jinro as well. Liquid's ability to grow players is one of its greatest strengths. They're not out to sign the hottest names. I specifically mentioned the fact that some players, NonY in particular, contribute much more to the team than just finishes in tournaments. Jinro as well, he has at least some very very significant finishes in his career that allow him to remain on the team. List some important tournaments that Haypro has either won or placed highly in. Yes Jinro never won a GSL but he has the best finish of any foreigner in the GSL so far. Show nested quote + I feel that you misunderstand Team Liquid and shouldn't be talking in regards to their goals and how they should achieve them. Nevermind the fact that your post is filled with ignorance about compared performances between teams. Haypro has proven that he is worthy of the Liquid tag on results alone, yet at the end of the day it is irrelevant because the only people it matters to, that he proves that he is worthy to Liquid, is Liquid itself. I do not meant to presume TL's goals. However when basically every other member of their team is either furthering the brand through either media, NonY, or finishes within SC2, (essentially the rest of TL) Haypro is lagging behind. I mean nothing against Haypro personally, yet you cannot deny the fact that both Machine and Demuslim both clearly stated that if there was one of TL they expected to lose, it was Haypro. In addition Haypro does next to notheing to further the TL name in terms of media. The same cannot be said of the EG members who's results don't match with their standing with the team/ community. Am I asking Tl to cut him this instant? No. But the fact remains that I question his value to the team when you compare the work done by the other foreigner teams in regards to talent and or marketability. I do want to say as a kind of retort if I may. In MLG Orlando Haypro and Hero were the top two finishers for TL and they were knocked out in the same round http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Orlando As well as in MLG Providence he not only finished 7th (top for TL) but did so by beating Nestea Select and KiwiKaki. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence So I wouldn't count him out yet! | ||
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