Rooting for Maru and Dark but expecting Maru and soO. Ideally soO in first to set up the RO8 match against Rogue. If Maru gets out in first, he has basically a free pass to the RO4.
On June 03 2017 13:34 Argonauta wrote: ZvZ is a good mirror, losira is just not a decent opponent vs soO
He won't game two fairly convincingly, though in all three games there really wasn't much going on besides one guy going all army while the other is not. Wow so interesting
On June 03 2017 13:37 pvsnp wrote: Just think, if groups B and D swapped a few players we could have had a bunch of sick TvZs. Instead we get these bleh mirrors.
And maybe we would have gotten fewer mirrors in the ro8 too.
On June 03 2017 13:39 Argonauta wrote: I just like the ling bane skirmishes and the mindgames, and we have plenty of both, yet I feel like tastosis miss some of them
On June 03 2017 13:39 Argonauta wrote: I just like the ling bane skirmishes and the mindgames, and we have plenty of both, yet I feel like tastosis miss some of them
actualy ling bling wars are/were fun because it's about micro. I think they catched the mindgames (lair cancel, etc). It's just kinda bland that one guy pumps army and the other simply loses
On June 03 2017 13:48 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The 5-rax reaper follow up is amusing though pretty glass cannon. I didn't think anyone other than Kelazhur did stuff like this.
On June 03 2017 13:48 DieuCure wrote: You really think it's a joke ? Without practice Cure was better than dark in gsl s1, his decision making killed him but that was still impressive
In my book the player that wins is the better player.
On June 03 2017 13:48 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The 5-rax reaper follow up is amusing though pretty glass cannon. I didn't think anyone other than Kelazhur did stuff like this.
ByuN did against Rogue actually.
Interesting. I always thought the macro (double engineering bay, 3 CC follow up) was better. Yeah you can't kill your opponent outright as often, but you usually still have some sort of edge going into the mid-game, whereas for the 5-rax you can just die.
On June 03 2017 13:48 DieuCure wrote: You really think it's a joke ? Without practice Cure was better than dark in gsl s1, his decision making killed him but that was still impressive
In my book the player that wins is the better player.
But you have to watch the game before saying calumnies
On June 03 2017 13:48 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The 5-rax reaper follow up is amusing though pretty glass cannon. I didn't think anyone other than Kelazhur did stuff like this.
ByuN did against Rogue actually.
Interesting. I always thought the macro (double engineering bay, 3 CC follow up) was better. Yeah you can't kill your opponent outright as often, but you usually still have some sort of edge going into the mid-game, whereas for the 5-rax you can just die.
If you did not notice Maru had double ebay 3 CC follow up as well.
On June 03 2017 13:48 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The 5-rax reaper follow up is amusing though pretty glass cannon. I didn't think anyone other than Kelazhur did stuff like this.
ByuN did against Rogue actually.
Interesting. I always thought the macro (double engineering bay, 3 CC follow up) was better. Yeah you can't kill your opponent outright as often, but you usually still have some sort of edge going into the mid-game, whereas for the 5-rax you can just die.
If you did not notice Maru had double ebay 3 CC follow up as well.
Yeah of course, but with the 5 rax reaper you're still in a fragile position despite that since you don't have much of an army if you can't find damage when it goes into the mid-game.
I never get the purpose of reapers. It's just an extra unnecessary gimmick out of a Terran's toolbox super early game. Marines already have an edge over zealots and lings. Remove reapers please!
On June 03 2017 13:56 RKC wrote: I never get the purpose of reapers. It's just an extra unnecessary gimmick out of a Terran's toolbox super early game. Marines already have an edge over zealots and lings. Remove reapers please!
The reaper is necessary for early scouting. A grenade nerf would be nice though.
On June 03 2017 13:56 RKC wrote: I never get the purpose of reapers. It's just an extra unnecessary gimmick out of a Terran's toolbox super early game. Marines already have an edge over zealots and lings. Remove reapers please!
Reapers are fine, but grenades should probably be removed. Or as Snute once proposed, have limited charges
On June 03 2017 13:56 RKC wrote: I never get the purpose of reapers. It's just an extra unnecessary gimmick out of a Terran's toolbox super early game. Marines already have an edge over zealots and lings. Remove reapers please!
Reapers are fine, but grenades should probably be removed. Or as Snute once proposed, have limited charges
On June 03 2017 13:56 RKC wrote: I never get the purpose of reapers. It's just an extra unnecessary gimmick out of a Terran's toolbox super early game. Marines already have an edge over zealots and lings. Remove reapers please!
On June 03 2017 13:56 RKC wrote: I never get the purpose of reapers. It's just an extra unnecessary gimmick out of a Terran's toolbox super early game. Marines already have an edge over zealots and lings. Remove reapers please!
Reapers are fine, but grenades should probably be removed. Or as Snute once proposed, have limited charges
On June 03 2017 13:54 Nakajin wrote: I swear to god Byun is the devil getting everyone to do this stupid shit. And I say thay playing T.
I blame Byun for abusive plays and the direction the game is taking. But hey, Bliz probably figures that's what the average fan wants to see (fast action and hard counters), so stuff like reapers and adepts are here to stay.
No add-ons so soO should know it's the 5 rax reaper. I like the ling handling from soO--he didn't dive all the zerglings on the reapers in the corner to get shredded by grenades as some players (*cough* Armani *cough*) would.
On June 03 2017 14:51 Boggyb wrote: Fake reapers and go something else please.
how do you fake reapers?
I meant fake 3rax. Not sure how or if it is possible, but no more reapers.
You could go 3-rax marauder I suppose. Or brilliantly fake reapers by going for something other than reapers, since soO would probably blindly (and correctly) assume reapers were coming.
On June 03 2017 15:05 lolfail9001 wrote: soO advances to another Code S finals, huh.
That would be great
Fun fact SoO never lost in a round of 8 or a semi final in the GSL (actually now that I think about it I can remember any tournament that happened to him)
On June 03 2017 15:05 lolfail9001 wrote: soO advances to another Code S finals, huh.
That would be great
Fun fact SoO never lost in a round of 8 or a semi final in the GSL (actually now that I think about it I can remember any tournament that happened to him)
On June 03 2017 15:05 lolfail9001 wrote: soO advances to another Code S finals, huh.
That would be great
Fun fact SoO never lost in a round of 8 or a semi final in the GSL (actually now that I think about it I can remember any tournament that happened to him)
On June 03 2017 15:05 lolfail9001 wrote: soO advances to another Code S finals, huh.
That would be great
Fun fact SoO never lost in a round of 8 or a semi final in the GSL (actually now that I think about it I can remember any tournament that happened to him)
On June 03 2017 15:05 lolfail9001 wrote: soO advances to another Code S finals, huh.
That would be great
Fun fact SoO never lost in a round of 8 or a semi final in the GSL (actually now that I think about it I can remember any tournament that happened to him)
That is very true. If soO makes out of group stage in regular GSL season, he would make it to the final. So it is very likely that he will make to the final this season as well.
He is very consistent this year and I really cross my fingers that he will finally win GSL this season.
Losira didn't play bad at all. His aggressive/macro style in ZvZ is pretty good. He lost because he played too greedy in important games. First game of evening vs soO, went 3 hatches before pool. Oh well, like signed a death sentence. In Newkirk, I never play hatch first as a Z myself because 12 pool happens a lot on that map. It is the decider game, there is no reason to play greedy.
On June 03 2017 15:50 DieuCure wrote: Ye but dark pool first everytime even against terran so it's not really smart to go hatch first against him in zvz
It's rock/paper/scissors. And Losira would have actuallly held the all-in easily if his 2nd overlord hadn't barely missed the first lings.
On June 03 2017 15:47 AshC wrote: In Newkirk, I never play hatch first as a Z myself on that map because 12 pool happens a lot on that map.
Silly progamers, they 17hatch almost every game on Newkirk
Sure why not if he thinks he can defend early aggression well which he doesn't. Game 1 already indicated that. That game wasn't even a 12 pool. It was like 16 pool and he died to that.
On June 03 2017 15:47 AshC wrote: In Newkirk, I never play hatch first as a Z myself on that map because 12 pool happens a lot on that map.
Silly progamers, they 17hatch almost every game on Newkirk
Sure why not if he thinks he can defend early aggression well which he doesn't. Game 1 already indicated that. That game wasn't even a 12 pool. It was like 16 pool and he died to that.
If 1 base all-in off a later pool was any easier to hold than 12pool, then Dark wouldn't have done it. But hey, everybody is a coach in live report threads and you can obviously extract ridiculous amounts of data about players from 3 games played on a single day.
On June 03 2017 16:01 Ej_ wrote: 1 base mutalisk would've won this game!
Not really.
Responding seriously to jokes aside, if he had started lair already on 1 base instead of banking money to double expand, he would have the mutas out by the time banshees and hellbats come.
On June 03 2017 16:07 Ej_ wrote: Isn't it the first time he plays TvZ on WW? Reapers aren't exactly good here and proxy from the middle isn't that great.
Reapers aren't exactly amazing on Ascension or Abyssal, but it didn't stop Maru.
On June 03 2017 16:07 Ej_ wrote: Isn't it the first time he plays TvZ on WW? Reapers aren't exactly good here and proxy from the middle isn't that great.
Reapers aren't exactly amazing on Ascension or Abyssal, but it didn't stop Maru.
Definitely not as bad as WW where you can hop into the main only from the natural.
On June 03 2017 15:47 AshC wrote: In Newkirk, I never play hatch first as a Z myself on that map because 12 pool happens a lot on that map.
Silly progamers, they 17hatch almost every game on Newkirk
Sure why not if he thinks he can defend early aggression well which he doesn't. Game 1 already indicated that. That game wasn't even a 12 pool. It was like 16 pool and he died to that.
If 1 base all-in off a later pool was any easier to hold than 12pool, then Dark wouldn't have done it. But hey, everybody is a coach in live report threads and you can obviously extract ridiculous amounts of data about players from 3 games played on a single day.
I didn't live-coach anyone. I said what I said when the games were done. I simply questioned why he did what he did. He played into his weakness and Dark's strength from what I SAW. No need to use the mockery tone on my analysis just because you don't agree. Feel free to bring your logic into the discussion in a mature matter.
On June 03 2017 16:07 Ej_ wrote: Isn't it the first time he plays TvZ on WW? Reapers aren't exactly good here and proxy from the middle isn't that great.
Reapers aren't exactly amazing on Ascension or Abyssal, but it didn't stop Maru.
Definitely not as bad as WW where you can hop into the main only from the natural.
True, Whirlwind is significantly worse since not only is there no cliff surface area, but there's also a ramp at the natural. However I try not to assume players won't 3-rax reaper since I've seen uThermal 3-rax reaper on Flame Juggler, one of the worst 3-rax reaper maps in existence.
On June 03 2017 16:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wonder what is the biggest supply deficit a Zerg has ever come back from in a ZvNotZ. That was certainly far too much
On June 03 2017 16:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wonder what is the biggest supply deficit a Zerg has ever come back from in a ZvNotZ. That was certainly far too much
I dont know but i remember a TvZ with a really low vcs count come back on Lerilak Crest
On June 03 2017 16:20 DieuCure wrote: Maru is bully, he knew he was better at macro game so he wanted to humiliate by spamming 3rax
He's been playing this game pretty poorly, but Dark was too far behind to catch up.
Hm?
Dark opened 17/17/17 and got done literally nothing with it, then got supply blocked because his scouting ovie was killed right before speed finished. Maru this game: -forgot armory -was losing way too much in drop harassment -forgot 3/3
I think Dark's only misplay was sending too many zerglings to harass 3rd (probably expected an army there instead of a naked OC with SCVs happily mining).
On June 03 2017 16:20 DieuCure wrote: Maru is bully, he knew he was better at macro game so he wanted to humiliate by spamming 3rax
He's been playing this game pretty poorly, but Dark was too far behind to catch up.
Hm?
Dark opened 17/17/17 and got done literally nothing with it, then got supply blocked because his scouting ovie was killed right before speed finished. Maru this game: -forgot armory -was losing way too much in drop harassment -forgot 3/3
I think Dark's only misplay was sending too many zerglings to harass 3rd (probably expected an army there instead of a naked OC with SCVs happily mining).
I guess Maru got only ahead to finish the game with 2/2 with pure luck then. Sure he made mistakes, forgetting 3/3 is really bad. But apparently it didn't matter.
Dark's tenacity is so impressive. Did he do enough to win? No. Did he play well to eke out the win? Yes - just as in every game that he plays, even from behind.
Unlike many top players (sOs, Inno, Zest, etc.), he rarely ever gets bopped straight up. He always puts up a fight, a show. He will be missed.
On June 03 2017 16:24 lolfail9001 wrote: What was the last time that even happened, anyway?
Full mirror GSL Ro8? This is the first ever.
It is the first time for any premier tournament though? I thought at least one tournament in the blink stalker PvP era would have had an all mirror round of 8 (by virtue of 6 of those players being Protoss), but I couldn't find any.
On June 03 2017 16:20 DieuCure wrote: Maru is bully, he knew he was better at macro game so he wanted to humiliate by spamming 3rax
He's been playing this game pretty poorly, but Dark was too far behind to catch up.
Hm?
Dark opened 17/17/17 and got done literally nothing with it, then got supply blocked because his scouting ovie was killed right before speed finished. Maru this game: -forgot armory -was losing way too much in drop harassment -forgot 3/3
I think Dark's only misplay was sending too many zerglings to harass 3rd (probably expected an army there instead of a naked OC with SCVs happily mining).
Uhhh... No. Maru barely lost anything during his extremely heavy drop play, and that amount of drop precision would regularly make other elite zerg players crumble. Dark did incredibly well just keeping the losses manageable.
Maru didn't deal much damage, but you are wrong to infer that he lost anything unnecessary during the harassment. Just because he didn't kill tons of drones or snipe a hatchery doesn't make the harassment unsuccessful.
He didn't lose any full dropships, didn't take any noteworthy baneling hits, and clearly he DID enough to DISTRACT Dark and continually deny the zerg 4th base.
Each player made one big mistake this game; these mistakes being Dark's scouting supply block and Maru's mis-transfer of SCV's to his 3rd orbital.
You also assert Maru forgot 3/3. Fair enough. But it appeared to me as if he knew that if he simply prioritized Liberators he would eventually choke Dark out of the game. I think his decision-making was spectacular in the final game, and the fact he won quite decisively seems to suggest that Maru was aware he simply didn't need to waste precious gas on infantry upgrades when he could invest in more liberators. And simply put, they won him the game.
The SCV transfer mistake was undoubtedly that - a mistake. But it helped him in the end, and in elite competition the winner sometimes gets a smile from Lady Luck. Dark played great, but Maru played remarkably well. I've watched him fall apart in late-game TvZ so many times I was expecting nothing less here, but the speed with which he played combined with his seemingly improved intuition was pleasant to watch and that win was well-deserved.
I feel like not getting 3/3 is still a mistake though, no? I mean you keep producing bio units no matter what, adding liberators a bit later seems better?
On June 03 2017 18:33 The_Red_Viper wrote: I feel like not getting 3/3 is still a mistake though, no? I mean you keep producing bio units no matter what, adding liberators a bit later seems better?
Arguably yes, it gave the ultras a lot more strength.
I can safely root for Maru against ByuN regardless of how dirty he plays, but my fandom is on probation otherwise. If we get a Jin Air finals and he brings out that B.S. against Rogue, he'd probably be dead to me.
On June 03 2017 23:14 Boggyb wrote: I can safely root for Maru against ByuN regardless of how dirty he plays, but my fandom is on probation otherwise. If we get a Jin Air finals and he brings out that B.S. against Rogue, he'd probably be dead to me.
I wouldn't define 3 rax reaper as a bullshit build. I think it's way less cheesy than some realize because thanks to the current way of transitioning out of it, terran can be in a decent spot even without doing heavy direct damage (the indirect damage is obvious: the zerg does not drone). I think it will be used a lot in TvZ and zergs will refine their answer to this particular type of build.