I'm gonna say Maru 4-2 or 4-3, with his games wildly swinging from pure brilliance to complete derp mode. If it's 4-3, the final game is unscouted cheese from Maru, while everyone rips their hair out wondering why the hell Dark didn't move an early scout just a tiny smidge farther in one direction.
I think Maru will outplay Dark and build a 2-0 or 3-0 lead. Then he will get cheesed the next two games, get put on tilt, and lose the last 2 games for a 4-2 or 4-3 Dark win.
Dark has gone 18-1 in series against Terran since the WCS Global Finals. His one loss? To Maru at the WESG Asian Pacific Qualifier in a complete spanking. Maru repeats that feat to win WESG and again to make the GSL finals which he wins over soO.
Dark has gone 18-1 in series against Terran since the WCS Global Finals. His one loss? To Maru at the WESG Asian Pacific Qualifier in a complete spanking. Maru repeats that feat to win WESG and again to make the GSL finals which he wins over soO.
Dark was outplaying Maru that series tbh. He only lost because of stupid decisions that I doubt he'd make when theres's actually something on the line.
On March 18 2018 06:56 Poopi wrote: 3am? Fuck it it's Maru of all terrans in a 200k$ finals against Dark in one of the best match ups historically... I guess I'll sleep later :D
Pretty much this but I'm dungeon mastering(D&D) at 12 AM -_- Not sure if I can actually handle that
Just something to consider, if Maru wins this he will be the highest earning sc2 player of all time. That would mean that in a span of only weeks three different JinAir players would set a new record.
On March 18 2018 09:32 The_Red_Viper wrote: Just something to consider, if Maru wins this he will be the highest earning sc2 player of all time. That would mean that in a span of only weeks three different JinAir players would set a new record.
And then Cure somehow wins blizzcon and sets it again?
On March 18 2018 09:32 The_Red_Viper wrote: Just something to consider, if Maru wins this he will be the highest earning sc2 player of all time. That would mean that in a span of only weeks three different JinAir players would set a new record.
And then Cure somehow wins blizzcon and sets it again?
Only if blizzcon is worth 500k first place, but sure it might happen
Dark's just trying to gather information about if he can beat late game terran from a perfect set-up. And then he's going to all-in every single other game.
On March 18 2018 11:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Dark's just trying to gather information about if he can beat late game terran from a perfect set-up. And then he's going to all-in every single other game.
He picked a weird map to do it on, this is probably the best map for Terran turtling ever.
On March 18 2018 11:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Dark's just trying to gather information about if he can beat late game terran from a perfect set-up. And then he's going to all-in every single other game.
He picked a weird map to do it on, this is probably the best map for Terran turtling ever.
Yeah, but he has a massive economic lead, so it still makes a good test.
On March 18 2018 11:26 Solar424 wrote: I'm not sure how Blizzard thought putting a map with every base behind a chokepoint and your first three behind one wouldn't be insanely Terran favored.
This isn't the map's fault for once. Dark could have easily killed him earlier, and you can't break a terran siting on this comp. on five bases no matter the map.
On March 18 2018 11:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Yeah, I'm not sure it counts as 'showing us how to beat this playstyle' when you get a gigantic early advantage and an extra three bases.
It only shows how to play if you have complete map control and an economic lead
On March 18 2018 11:42 Fango wrote: Is it worth making a quick spire just to force thors and turrets from the terran?
Doubtful. I'm sure he would have built some mutas if it didn't get scouted.
And the swarmhosts are a cute idea. He doesn't want to go for normal stuff against Maru. He'd lose the momentum and mental edge he gained from beating Maru's lategame (even if it was under lopsided circumstances).
Lol swarmhosts have always been a counter to mech. When they got nerfed zerg refused to make them and it turned out they were still the counter. Now they've been nerfed again but still.
On March 18 2018 11:46 Fango wrote: Lol swarmhosts have always been a counter to mech. When they got nerfed zerg refused to make them and it turned out they were still the counter. Now they've been nerfed again but still.
Zerg refused to make them since vipers are just better in 99% of circumstances. These weird compositions might be the 1% though.
On March 18 2018 11:59 Aunvilgodess wrote: Why are so few ppl watching this greatness?
This tournament is tragically under-advertised and under-hyped, despite it's huge prize pool. Also having the finals by themselves today is never a good idea for viewership
On March 18 2018 11:55 Fango wrote: This is technically considered the highest level ZvT in the world right? Maru and Dark are the #1 in both matchups.
tbh I feel like they are both kinda figuring out the new meta at the moment haha
The heavy cyclone play was interesting, and tailored for the map. Bad trades, but containing the Z in creep and bases while he got 8 bases or so for free.
Maru is just playing like a god lately, why does terran have to be shit for him to unleash his full powers? If he always played like this he might be at Innovation level achievements.
Surprised to see Maru get caught out right before ghosts and liberator production really ramped up. He's been so crisp with his transitions this tournament.
This is what's frustrating about Maru. In regular games he always wins. But then he loses to stupid shit (not looking at his army, misbuilding a wall, choosing to cheese etc).
On March 18 2018 12:52 Charoisaur wrote: If nydus doesn't get scouted - instantly win the game If nydus gets scouted - cancel and continue playing like nothing happened
On March 18 2018 12:51 Fango wrote: This is what's frustrating about Maru. In regular games he always wins. But then he loses to stupid shit (not looking at his army, misbuilding a wall, choosing to cheese etc).
Yyyep. I hope he can take this still, but he's gotta get himself together again if he wants to have a chance.
On March 18 2018 12:52 Charoisaur wrote: If nydus doesn't get scouted - instantly win the game If nydus gets scouted - cancel and continue playing like nothing happened
On March 18 2018 12:52 Charoisaur wrote: If nydus doesn't get scouted - instantly win the game If nydus gets scouted - cancel and continue playing like nothing happened
If proxy rax doesn't get scouted - instantly win the game If proxy rax gets scouted - float to main base, salvage bunkers, and continue like nothing happened
On March 18 2018 12:52 Charoisaur wrote: If nydus doesn't get scouted - instantly win the game If nydus gets scouted - cancel and continue playing like nothing happened
If proxy rax doesn't get scouted - instantly win the game If proxy rax gets scouted - float to main base, salvage bunkers, and continue like nothing happened
That's not even close to being the same. If a proxy rax is scouted early the zerg should win the game. Nydus can be cancelled to not much loss.
On March 18 2018 12:52 Charoisaur wrote: If nydus doesn't get scouted - instantly win the game If nydus gets scouted - cancel and continue playing like nothing happened
If proxy rax doesn't get scouted - instantly win the game If proxy rax gets scouted - float to main base, salvage bunkers, and continue like nothing happened
Terrible comparison, if you float to main base without doing damage you're so far behind you might as well gg.
On March 18 2018 12:52 Charoisaur wrote: If nydus doesn't get scouted - instantly win the game If nydus gets scouted - cancel and continue playing like nothing happened
If proxy rax doesn't get scouted - instantly win the game If proxy rax gets scouted - float to main base, salvage bunkers, and continue like nothing happened
That's not even close to being the same. If a proxy rax is scouted early the zerg should win the game. Nydus can be cancelled to not much loss.
On March 18 2018 13:02 Fango wrote: Normally in these kind of games I say Maru just got lucky. But Dark got so lucky in the two games before that I don't mind.
Now it's your turn to tell us that maru cannot win, you did so after every game
On March 18 2018 13:02 Fango wrote: Normally in these kind of games I say Maru just got lucky. But Dark got so lucky in the two games before that I don't mind.
Now it's your turn to tell us that maru cannot win, you did so after every game
He got very lucky this game. It's not a repeatable result imo.
On March 18 2018 13:02 Fango wrote: Normally in these kind of games I say Maru just got lucky. But Dark got so lucky in the two games before that I don't mind.
Now it's your turn to tell us that maru cannot win, you did so after every game
He got very lucky this game. It's not a repeatable result imo.
Luck is part of the game, dark got lucky in two other games.
What is proper sound proofing? When it comes to CS:GO, all 10 players are usually sitting in the middle of the arena with their headsets on. They can see and hear the audience and casters... I feel like unless everyone plays in booths, we'll never get proper sound proofing.
God Zerg seriously is a race of Kongs. Whatever FruitDealer did to win that first GSL probably involved only one Korean Zerg being able to win at a time and losing every finals.
On March 18 2018 13:10 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Was he not able to target the scv building the first bunker? That seemed like a huge mistake to me
he attacked it once and then changed targeting to the bunker itself. i think it was a mistake
I think so too. When a building is against the wall you can technically cancel trick the SCV to not be able to be targeted is the drones focus it, but the segment of wall there was so small that getting the bunker up would have been quite difficult.
On March 18 2018 04:42 neutralrobot wrote: I'm gonna say Maru 4-2 or 4-3, with his games wildly swinging from pure brilliance to complete derp mode. If it's 4-3, the final game is unscouted cheese from Maru, while everyone rips their hair out wondering why the hell Dark didn't move an early scout just a tiny smidge farther in one direction.
Rogue$550K sOs$520K Maru$550K Proof that practicing with the best is key to being the best.
Edit: I just realized that each of these three play their 'mirror' matchups very unconventionally. Perhaps due to the lack of an equal (of identical race) on the team.
On March 18 2018 13:22 Boggyb wrote: Poor sOs. He goes from undisputed cash king of Jin Air to 3rd place in less than 6 months.
Very soon Jin-Air will stop paying players salaries and instead take a 10% comission. JK. But the coach really deserves it.
Teams already take some of the winnings don't they?
NO WAY. Just like in real sports, the players used to sign with the most lucrative teams. (Well, the skilled players with a name in the scene, anyways.) Someone correct me if I am wrong.
I just realised this is the first tournament since iem Shanghai 2017 where the player I was cheering for in the final actually won. I forgot what it feels like :D
On March 18 2018 13:30 KR_4EVR wrote: Rogue$550K sOs$520K Maru$550K Proof that practicing with the best is key to being the best.
Edit: I just realized that each of these three play their 'mirror' matchups very unconventionally. Perhaps due to the lack of an equal (of identical race) on the team.
trap, creator and cure wouldnt be decent practice for sos and maru?
On March 18 2018 13:22 Boggyb wrote: Poor sOs. He goes from undisputed cash king of Jin Air to 3rd place in less than 6 months.
Very soon Jin-Air will stop paying players salaries and instead take a 10% comission. JK. But the coach really deserves it.
Teams already take some of the winnings don't they?
NO WAY. Just like in real sports, the players used to sign with the most lucrative teams. (Well, the skilled players with a name in the scene, anyways.) Someone correct me if I am wrong.
The Kespa teams took a share of prize money in the Proleague days, and unless JAGW changed that policy they still take their cut of their players' winnings
IIRC the figure was ~15%. And of course the government will take its share. At a guess the players will actually pocket around 2/3 of the prize money
On March 18 2018 14:37 pvsnp wrote: Missed the games but I'm glad Maru won. How were they? Did Dark die to mass Ravens or did he find a counter?
Game 1: Dark did a ravager push, got a huge lead, unaccountably decided not to kill Maru. Let Maru get up to five bases on Backwater while denying the sixth. Ended up beating raven/ghost by trading inefficiently for 10 minutes when up 8 bases to 5.
Game 2: Absolutely bizarre game on Eastwatch where Dark was going for swarmhosts/baneling. Maru was going for mech, and eventually went for some ravens (though they weren't really key), but I can't do this game justice by explaining it. The compositions were rather mental.
Game 3: Super-solid marine/tank pushing from Maru, and the most standard game of the series
Game 4: A strong Ling/Bane/Muta game from Dark with Maru not watching his army at key moments
Game 5: Burrow roach attack wreck all the mineral lines, and from there Dark went for swarmhost/banelings
On March 18 2018 14:37 pvsnp wrote: Missed the games but I'm glad Maru won. How were they? Did Dark die to mass Ravens or did he find a counter?
Game 1: Dark did a ravager push, got a huge lead, unaccountably decided not to kill Maru. Let Maru get up to five bases on Backwater while denying the sixth. Ended up beating raven/ghost by trading inefficiently for 10 minutes when up 8 bases to 5.
Game 2: Absolutely bizarre game on Eastwatch where Dark was going for swarmhosts/baneling. Maru was going for mech, and eventually went for some ravens (though they weren't really key), but I can't do this game justice by explaining it. The compositions were rather mental.
Game 3: Super-solid marine/tank pushing from Maru, and the most standard game of the series
Game 4: A strong Ling/Bane/Muta game from Dark with Maru not watching his army at key moments
Game 5: Burrow roach attack wreck all the mineral lines, and from there Dark went for swarmhost/banelings
Game 6: Proxy 2-rax
Game 7: Proxy 2-rax
Just skimmed the games, and my god the balls on Maru to go for that proxy in Game 7. Won with the previous proxy, on the cheesiest map possible, he goes for it and wins with it. What a god. Maru staying true to his cheesy roots in the finest tradition of BoxeR.
And it seems Dark won 2 of 3 games featuring Ravens. Not so invincible after all.
On March 18 2018 14:37 pvsnp wrote: Missed the games but I'm glad Maru won. How were they? Did Dark die to mass Ravens or did he find a counter?
Game 1: Dark did a ravager push, got a huge lead, unaccountably decided not to kill Maru. Let Maru get up to five bases on Backwater while denying the sixth. Ended up beating raven/ghost by trading inefficiently for 10 minutes when up 8 bases to 5.
Game 2: Absolutely bizarre game on Eastwatch where Dark was going for swarmhosts/baneling. Maru was going for mech, and eventually went for some ravens (though they weren't really key), but I can't do this game justice by explaining it. The compositions were rather mental.
Game 3: Super-solid marine/tank pushing from Maru, and the most standard game of the series
Game 4: A strong Ling/Bane/Muta game from Dark with Maru not watching his army at key moments
Game 5: Burrow roach attack wreck all the mineral lines, and from there Dark went for swarmhost/banelings
Game 6: Proxy 2-rax
Game 7: Proxy 2-rax
Just skimmed the games, and my god the balls on Maru to go for that proxy in Game 7. Won with the previous proxy, on the cheesiest map possible, he goes for it and wins with it. What a god. Maru staying true to his cheesy roots in the finest tradition of BoxeR.
And it seems Dark won 2 of 3 games featuring Ravens. Not so invincible after all.
Yeah, but those games were already completely won before the ravens came out.
On March 18 2018 14:37 pvsnp wrote: Missed the games but I'm glad Maru won. How were they? Did Dark die to mass Ravens or did he find a counter?
Game 1: Dark did a ravager push, got a huge lead, unaccountably decided not to kill Maru. Let Maru get up to five bases on Backwater while denying the sixth. Ended up beating raven/ghost by trading inefficiently for 10 minutes when up 8 bases to 5.
Game 2: Absolutely bizarre game on Eastwatch where Dark was going for swarmhosts/baneling. Maru was going for mech, and eventually went for some ravens (though they weren't really key), but I can't do this game justice by explaining it. The compositions were rather mental.
Game 3: Super-solid marine/tank pushing from Maru, and the most standard game of the series
Game 4: A strong Ling/Bane/Muta game from Dark with Maru not watching his army at key moments
Game 5: Burrow roach attack wreck all the mineral lines, and from there Dark went for swarmhost/banelings
Game 6: Proxy 2-rax
Game 7: Proxy 2-rax
Just skimmed the games, and my god the balls on Maru to go for that proxy in Game 7. Won with the previous proxy, on the cheesiest map possible, he goes for it and wins with it. What a god. Maru staying true to his cheesy roots in the finest tradition of BoxeR.
And it seems Dark won 2 of 3 games featuring Ravens. Not so invincible after all.
Yeah, but those games were already completely won before the ravens came out.
Yeah, but he also showed great micro against them, especially in the second game. Seeing it reminded me of when DRG finally figured out how to play against INnoVation's widow mine parade push.
On March 18 2018 14:29 Fango wrote: I just realised this is the first tournament since iem Shanghai 2017 where the player I was cheering for in the final actually won. I forgot what it feels like :D
You cheered for Rogue at IEM Shanghai but not at the super tournament?
Dark can only be upset at himself for playing so greedy - hatch first and fairly late pool for the final game. Anyone who knows maru a little should have expected a proxy in the very last game, especially after it worked the game earlier.
On March 18 2018 14:29 Fango wrote: I just realised this is the first tournament since iem Shanghai 2017 where the player I was cheering for in the final actually won. I forgot what it feels like :D
You cheered for Rogue at IEM Shanghai but not at the super tournament?
Wasn't everyone cheering for sOs to qualify for Blizzcon?
On March 18 2018 14:29 Fango wrote: I just realised this is the first tournament since iem Shanghai 2017 where the player I was cheering for in the final actually won. I forgot what it feels like :D
You cheered for Rogue at IEM Shanghai but not at the super tournament?
Wasn't everyone cheering for sOs to qualify for Blizzcon?
so 2 victories in 3 years. And a complete foreign bloodbath when koreans where allowed to compete in Foreign land
GG Gratz Maru ! It was close but Dark's greedyness got the better of him. Now I hope than Dark beat Maru in GSL (and he definitly can if he prepare well) so dark can lose in final against soO.
so 2 victories in 3 years. And a complete foreign bloodbath when koreans where allowed to compete in Foreign land
GG Gratz Maru ! It was close but Dark's greedyness got the better of him. Now I hope than Dark beat Maru in GSL (and he definitly can if he prepare well) so dark can lose in final against soO.
So what I'm getting from this is that foreigners do better in Korea, and Koreans do better out in the world. I think next year, GSL should be all foreigners, and WCS Global should be all Koreans.
It's incredible how the game and players have evolved. During Hots and the start of Lotv I could kind of understand what they were doing and imagine myself doing something similar (poorly) with enough time practice and will. But this crazy multitasking style with precise micro and great macro Maru showed during this tournament seems beyond regular human beings. Its awesome to watch.
Was good event, but what ruined it for me was the low quality of casting, especially the Finals. Wrong analysis, poor understanding of key moments in games, and flat out boring.... if this is not acceptable in this tread apologies but is was really terrible.
WESG have some problems. No points for WCS Global Finals, really not enough good players. Till like ro4 games were low quality. Casters as well are kinda boring accept Rotti. Also timezone is bad for Europe and US. That said, pricepool is close to IEM Katowice, but when you try to compare....there is nothing to compare. Anyway, good job, at least last 4 players where high class.
On March 18 2018 20:51 buffzerg33 wrote: WESG have some problems. No points for WCG Global Finals, really not enough good players. Till like ro4 games were low quality. Casters as well are kinda boring accept Rotti. Also timezone is bad for Europe and US. That said, pricepool is close to IEM Katowice, but when you try to compare....there is nothing to compare. Anyway, good job, at least last 4 players where high class.
Just treat it as a wcs circuit level tournament with a few rampaging Koreans.
I mean WESG is just Alibaba dipping their toe into esports and seeing what comes out of it.
Looking at the sponsors and advertising it's 100% aimed at the chinese market and viewership. I'd imagine the international viewership that has been really low (for all games btw, not just sc2) doesn't matter all that much to them.
Otherwise they would show english ads from international sponsors on the english stream. Like where am I supposed to buy that juice box in Germany to support WESG?
On March 18 2018 20:57 Musicus wrote: I mean WESG is just Alibaba dipping their toe into esports and seeing what comes out of it.
Looking at the sponsors and advertising it's 100% aimed at the chinese market and viewership. I'd imagine the international viewership that has been really low (for all games btw, not just sc2) doesn't matter all that much to them.
Otherwise they would show english ads from international sponsors on the english stream. Like where am I supposed to buy that juice box in Germany to support WESG?
Twitch viewership was 10k+ in the previous days, considering the bare minimum exposure (for this caliber of tournaments) and bad time for EU and NA it's fine.
On March 18 2018 14:29 Fango wrote: I just realised this is the first tournament since iem Shanghai 2017 where the player I was cheering for in the final actually won. I forgot what it feels like :D
You cheered for Rogue at IEM Shanghai but not at the super tournament?
I didn't want Rogue to qualify for blizzcon over the other guys who were very close. (sOs, alive, Maru etc).
On March 18 2018 22:54 Jathin wrote: Anyone else think Dark threw that series? Watch Game 7 again and tell me his decision making wasn't suspicious. That bunker was dead and he pulled all his drones off it when it was 10% from dying.
He was playing for $120,000. Someone paying him to throw would have had to offer even more than that and no gambler could or would.
The only realistic possibility is if Maru and Dark conspired to split the money ($280,000) with Dark getting more in exchange for letting Maru win and getting the prestige. While I can imagine situations like that happening in theory, there are possibly major tax reasons why that's not realistic unless the winner is giving the loser a very lopsided split.
On March 18 2018 22:54 Jathin wrote: Anyone else think Dark threw that series? Watch Game 7 again and tell me his decision making wasn't suspicious. That bunker was dead and he pulled all his drones off it when it was 10% from dying.
Occam's Razor: He was under a huge amount of stress and made a bad split-second decision.
On March 18 2018 22:54 Jathin wrote: Anyone else think Dark threw that series? Watch Game 7 again and tell me his decision making wasn't suspicious. That bunker was dead and he pulled all his drones off it when it was 10% from dying.
Occam's Razor: He was under a huge amount of stress and made a bad split-second decision.
On March 18 2018 22:54 Jathin wrote: Anyone else think Dark threw that series? Watch Game 7 again and tell me his decision making wasn't suspicious. That bunker was dead and he pulled all his drones off it when it was 10% from dying.
User was warned for this post
He panicked because the marines were killing drones. I'm not sure how many drones it takes to out-dps bunker construction but there's a good chance he was about to fall of.
Also no one on earth would throw a game with $120K on the line.
Maru had an eureka moment of apotheosis midway through the series. He knew he could beat Dark in late game, he could beat Dark's all-ins, and he could beat Dark with bio pushes BUT if he didn't micro perfectly, Dark would win in each of those cases. So he made a huge decision, realising that if he put the stress on Dark instead, it would be up to Dark to have to micro perfectly to hold - which is really hard in a 2-3 hour long best of 7 under huge stress and monetary pressure.
Maru, you have finally absorbed the teachings of $O$ - and a similar paycheck.
On March 18 2018 22:54 Jathin wrote: Anyone else think Dark threw that series? Watch Game 7 again and tell me his decision making wasn't suspicious. That bunker was dead and he pulled all his drones off it when it was 10% from dying.
User was warned for this post
Try playing a perfect game for 7 games in a row over the span of 2.5 hours without breaks... under immense pressure... mistakes happen. Accusations like this are not warranted.
On March 18 2018 20:51 buffzerg33 wrote: WESG have some problems. No points for WCS Global Finals, really not enough good players. Till like ro4 games were low quality. Casters as well are kinda boring accept Rotti. Also timezone is bad for Europe and US. That said, pricepool is close to IEM Katowice, but when you try to compare....there is nothing to compare. Anyway, good job, at least last 4 players where high class.
Without tournaments external to the WCS system, the scene would not thrive.