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On August 05 2018 01:52 TentativePanda wrote: Were the games between Maru and Stats close? From what I can tell, it wasn't necessarily a great series by Maru. What happened? Maru didn't seem to have an answer to Stats' 4 Collossus timing attack that won him every game
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On August 05 2018 01:57 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 00:26 dankobanana wrote:On August 05 2018 00:25 immanentblue wrote:On August 05 2018 00:01 dankobanana wrote:On August 05 2018 00:00 immanentblue wrote: now lets have him actually move to korea and go through a real gsl :D never gonna happen dont you think a win tomorrow might ignite a spark of desire for the ultimate glory that is inherently his destiny, inside his cold emotionless finnish heart nope. it makes zero financial sense Then why are other foreigners competing in GSL? Running from Serral in WCS.
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On August 05 2018 01:59 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 01:52 TentativePanda wrote: Were the games between Maru and Stats close? From what I can tell, it wasn't necessarily a great series by Maru. What happened? Maru didn't seem to have an answer to Stats' 4 Collossus timing attack that won him every game That seems oversimplified.
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France12469 Posts
On August 05 2018 01:57 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 00:26 dankobanana wrote:On August 05 2018 00:25 immanentblue wrote:On August 05 2018 00:01 dankobanana wrote:On August 05 2018 00:00 immanentblue wrote: now lets have him actually move to korea and go through a real gsl :D never gonna happen dont you think a win tomorrow might ignite a spark of desire for the ultimate glory that is inherently his destiny, inside his cold emotionless finnish heart nope. it makes zero financial sense Then why are other foreigners competing in GSL? Because they are too bad to compete against Serral so they hope to make gsl ro8 by bracket luck since there are only 10 decent Koreans left
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On August 05 2018 01:59 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 01:52 TentativePanda wrote: Were the games between Maru and Stats close? From what I can tell, it wasn't necessarily a great series by Maru. What happened? Maru didn't seem to have an answer to Stats' 4 Collossus timing attack that won him every game Maru had answers. In game 3 he won the fight with double the army supply left over. If most his army didn't run into stasis traps he probably runs accross the map and wins.
In game 4 he got a quick raven, which on paper is a good counter. Just didn't work in practice
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wtf are these results? Are Innovation and Dark just not good anymore or is Serral world class?
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On August 05 2018 03:59 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 01:59 Charoisaur wrote:On August 05 2018 01:52 TentativePanda wrote: Were the games between Maru and Stats close? From what I can tell, it wasn't necessarily a great series by Maru. What happened? Maru didn't seem to have an answer to Stats' 4 Collossus timing attack that won him every game Maru had answers. In game 3 he won the fight with double the army supply left over. If most his army didn't run into stasis traps he probably runs accross the map and wins. In game 4 he got a quick raven, which on paper is a good counter. Just didn't work in practice He won the fight but lost most of his workers and his 3rd. The stasis ward wasn't really that impactful.
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On August 05 2018 04:03 sharkie wrote: wtf are these results? Are Innovation and Dark just not good anymore or is Serral world class?
I haven't watched much in a year or so and I'm wondering the same thing. Serral did seem to keep up mechanically more than I remember most foreigners doing. Not sure if that's because the Koreans lost a step or what though.
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On August 05 2018 04:03 sharkie wrote: wtf are these results? Are Innovation and Dark just not good anymore or is Serral world class? They aren't as good as their peaks. They both lost in GSL ro16 last season for example. But Serral is definitely world class as well.
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I dunno why some people at TL seem to take almost as personal attack whenever foreigners do good. However for korean pros they gladly welcome it as the West has higher potential of spectators and larger player pool which means better prize pool and team sponsors for everyone. You would like to have as international scene as possible for any game, that is the best scenario for all the players. like for cs and dota. Sc2 is still not a huge game, it would barely make Steam top20 in player pool and activity but it is the undisputed number one rts and best 1on1 esport.
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On August 05 2018 04:46 It's britney bitch wrote: I dunno why some people at TL seem to take almost as personal attack whenever foreigners do good. However for korean pros they gladly welcome it as the West has higher potential of spectators and larger player pool which means better prize pool and team sponsors for everyone. You would like to have as international scene as possible for any game, that is the best scenario for all the players. like for cs and dota. Sc2 is still not a huge game, it would barely make Steam top20 in player pool and activity but it is the undisputed number one rts and best 1on1 esport. Having argued and listened to a lot of people who are less favourable towards foreigners, I have a good idea.
The first is that it's annoying whenever a foreigner does decently well and people proclaim him as the best in the world. Like, they're happy a person does well, but it doesn't mean that same message has to be spread around every thread.
Second, some people view foreigner success as coming at the expense of Korean Starcraft, which is like the Mecca of Starcraft. So yes, he's doing well, but he is benefiting from a closed system.
Third, some people are genuinely elitists and more than a bit racist against foreigners.
And personally, I'm definitely rooting for Serral, but I also recognize that even if he wins the whole event, it is just one event. He is playing masterfully, but one event and a handful of games does not mean that he should be overhyped. Players who have competed at the top like Maru and continue do dominate deserve the hype.
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I predict that Maru will win against Serral in the ace match of the team league, and that Serral will win vs Stats to win the Gsl vs the World. Will this end the Korean vs Foreigners debate? Probably not. But it'll be entertaining.
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Fucking Serral is just so goooood...
On August 05 2018 04:46 It's britney bitch wrote: I dunno why some people at TL seem to take almost as personal attack whenever foreigners do good. However for korean pros they gladly welcome it as the West has higher potential of spectators and larger player pool which means better prize pool and team sponsors for everyone. You would like to have as international scene as possible for any game, that is the best scenario for all the players. like for cs and dota. Sc2 is still not a huge game, it would barely make Steam top20 in player pool and activity but it is the undisputed number one rts and best 1on1 esport.
It's TL, that answers your question. The elitism on here is so transparent.
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On August 05 2018 04:52 FrkFrJss wrote: it's annoying whenever a foreigner does decently well and people proclaim him as the best in the world. Like, they're happy a person does well, but it doesn't mean that same message has to be spread around every thread.
Despite what fans may have claimed ("I TOLD you he'd do this!"), none of us really knew whether Serral could stand up to the top Korean pros yet or not, and whilst we have seen him have decent success against them in other mixed region tournaments (beating Rogue, Impact and Zest, losing to Classic in IEM XII, and beating Classic. losing to Maru at WESG), this is the first time we've seen him smash his way through top Koreans, on their home turf.
I agree that is hyperbole to say he's the best player in the world right now (it may be true, we don't know), but I don't think it can be disputed at this point that he is in the same league as the top Koreans now.
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On August 05 2018 04:03 sharkie wrote: wtf are these results? Are Innovation and Dark just not good anymore or is Serral world class?
Innovation and Dark aren't at their peaks anymore and Serral has been performing really solidly. Possibly top ten in the world, if he shows success in more Korean tournaments. Hard to tell now, but he's definitely a top foreigner.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On August 05 2018 04:03 sharkie wrote: wtf are these results? Are Innovation and Dark just not good anymore or is Serral world class? Think about it this way. Serral dominates WCS heavily. He's way better than Noregret, Scarlett, Neeb, Special and probably Reynor. Probably even if you combine two of these together
Now think about it again, Neeb & Reynor are both in the current GSL RO16. This makes Serral top16 player AT THE WORST CASE. Probably top8. Korean scene is getting way worse without proper incentive, no that long time ago people like Noregret wouldn't even be able to qualify for GSL and now I'm using him as an example... ro16 wouldn't be possible for any foreigner. Simply because there was at least 20 top Korean players fighting for this. But with KeSPA teams gone and region lock Korean scene deminished. Currently we have what, 6 really good players, 10 on their good days? (e.g. soO, Rogue, Innovation - very unstable results)
And it will be worse... we have a lot of fun ahead of us
edit: "fun" in case if you're like me, who hates when someone is pushing others way too hard(casters adn their foreigner bias) and you like to watch top koreans instead of ... this mess we have now. (that's not against Serral per se, as he's actually there)
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United States97248 Posts
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On August 04 2018 22:07 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 21:59 WhiteSPiriT wrote:On August 04 2018 21:18 deacon.frost wrote:On August 04 2018 21:15 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:13 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:05 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:03 opisska wrote:On August 04 2018 21:01 Soularion wrote:On August 04 2018 21:00 opisska wrote: The only setback here is that the koreans that serral plays are great on name value but not the absolute top when it comes to current form. But this is honestly the best matchups we could ever hope for from this absurdly made tournament. I dunno man. He played #4 and #3 on the community PR back to back and wrecked both pretty thoroughly. Stats is an iffy finals opponent but at the same time it's one more test for his ZvP and we'll just have to see the game quality when we get there. Yes, and that #4 on community rank clearly happened because of name value. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling the whole day or are that insanely blinded by your Serral love. The guy is the best we had in a long time on this side of Siberia, but one has to see some perspective. I mean, I'm not really sure what I'm said that's TOO far over the top. I'm just saying INnoVation and Dark have both shown at least flashes of good play as of late (I mean, god, INno -just- got done beating Rogue) - that doesn't mean that they're automatically the best ever and Serral's the best player in the world for beating them, but it's a damn good thing to add to his resume and I don't really know if I could line up 3 harder players. Like, sure, Maru in the finals would be more hype, but is TY and Rogue really much better than INno and Dark? Not really. He proved that his ZvT is pretty good and that his ZvZ is damn good, at least it was this tournament. Well both Inno and Dark went out in Ro16 last GSL (and there is not that much of substance to judge since then, sadly), that alone is a testament Those two are in this tourney solely based on name value, because this thing is based on the worst method of participant selection in existence, "community voting". That doesn't mean that they aren't good players, but they just damage the story of "Serral vs. Korea" purely by being here. They definitely aren't the #3 and #4 players in Korea right now ... Yes, Serral's run is gonna be legendary no matter what, but it could have been better. With how easily he destroyed Inno, he could have a reasonable shot on Maru (who is here, but he missed him due to bad format of single elim) and TY. Yeah for sure I would've loved to see Serral vs Maru. I'm mostly just teasing about how hard some people underrate Serral; I don't really have any problem with what you're saying, and if you still have questions about how Serral would play against TY/Maru, that's completely fair. I'm not gonna immediately say "yup, Serral would beat anyone else in korea" - this really just establishes him as actually being the player he looked like, in my eyes. Which is a top-tier player who is elite in some match-ups and only good in others. I believe many people here are just pissed because how hard casters are pushing forward foreigners while Koreans are region locked, are losing money in GSL because of Foreigners and on the Pytlon show everyone is pretending everything is fine. Many people here just don't like what they're seeing and that's why they ... not underestimate, but hate the teacher's pet. ANd Serral(ang generally speaking all foreigners) are those teacher's pets IMO This is very true. how is this "very" true? people have been cheering for foreigners since the very first days of starcraft 2 (Thorzain, HuK, iDra..) now suddenly when a foreigner wins elitists here making up excuses for that and blaming blizzard for it? everyone believing that the korean sc2 scene is declining because of region lock alone is delusional.
Sorry for the late reply I was busy today. first, if it's not because of the region lock, then why the lvl is declining in your opinion ? Many good koreans left the game because of it. (note : I don't think region lock is the cause of everything, there is obviously many other reasons).
I feel like the region lock is unfair in a way where foreigners are fully getting benefits of it without any kind of restriction (by that I mean they are completely free to play in GSL). And like the person I quoted, I'm kind of annoyed when people (and by people I mean casters especially) are being too much supportive of the foreigners when the situation in Korea is ... kind of bad.
I mean you are completely free to cheer for whoever you want, but still this situation is bad for the game imho, when you look at it more deeply.
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On August 05 2018 08:28 Shellshock wrote: Serral GOAT foreigner
Almost as sacrilege as calling him bonjwa heh.
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United States97248 Posts
On August 05 2018 08:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Almost as sacrilege as calling him bonjwa heh. first foreign bonjwa
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