So there's a bit of controversy surrounding this already. There's probably only going to be one game on the roster and it'll have to be either Melee or Smash4.
While I don't want to hate on the new game at all (I think its great that there's a new member of the family) it's a bit strange how many people are rooting for it to replace melee even though it isn't even out yet.
When I see the Evo organizer posting things like this on twitter, I get worried.
What does the Melee community have against Smash 4? I do not understand! - Joey Cuellar
Melee players do not hate smash4 as a game. We simply want to retain a critical mindset and are wary of the same mistakes that were made when Brawl came out. We hate the idea that Melee would be replaced without giving it any thought, just because there's a newer version which bears some resemblance and carries the same name. It's a slap in the face of the community which has had to fight for its existence for years. It's a slap in the face of serious competition.
Several reasons why I personally think melee should get the spot-
Melee is extremely deep and fosters competition in a way that no other smash titles do, as far as we know. As we all know Brawl had most of the advanced mechanics cut and it made for a boring spectator game. Sm4sh seems to be somewhere inbetween and while somewhat entertaining to watch, so far there is no indication that it will have the same mechanical & tactical depth melee had. If it does, it will show in time, but people will need more than a few months to figure these things out properly.
Melee has had more than 10 years to develop it's scene, knowledge & metagame. It has an enormous competitive narrative with players from all over the world. When Evo2015 will come out sm4sh will be nowhere near up to par. I understand it has to start somewhere, but Melee is the one who created the foundation. It would be downright offensive to kick it out and just let smash4 take its place as if its no big deal. Sm4sh has to earn its own place. New does not automatically equal better.
There's the argument that ssbm is a 'logistical nightmare' (due to the setups). While I can understand where this is coming from, the same can be said of any other game. Newer games require much pricier equipment. A Wii u + hd tv is easily around 700 dollars (and who would want to bring their own to a huge tourney?) While a cube + crt is easily less than 100, and a ton of people won't have a problem bringing their own.
A lot more can be said, but the bottom line is: melee deserves the Evo spot a lot more, at least until Sm4sh has proven it's own worth as a competitive title. If melee doesn't get the spot it will seriously affect the integrity of Evo as a serious fighting game event. This event was built on the hardcore. Don't turn your back on it, please. Especially after all the hard work it took to get melee back on the roster after all those years.
SO - what can you do to help?
Send a tweet to the EVO organizer @EvilMrWizard voicing your opinion! (in a respectable manner, of course)
There was a smashboards topic for discussion but it's been locked due to bad manner, sadly. Hopefully we can get some civilized discussion going here.
I can't access Twitter.com right now for some reason. Do you know any way I can at least view recent tweets? In the mean time, I've been posting a bit on reddit smash since two threads close to the topic popped-up.
I would watch Evo if they're broadcasting Smash 4 because I'm interested as I'm playing it myself.
I would guess that by the time Evo 2015 happens Smash 4 has a bigger playerbase then Melee. (Maybe not a bigger competitive playerbase, but they're not generating big twitch numbers)
On October 07 2014 22:20 shin ken wrote: I would not watch Evo if it's Melee.
I would watch Evo if they're broadcasting Smash 4 because I'm interested as I'm playing it myself.
I would guess that by the time Evo 2015 happens Smash 4 has a bigger playerbase then Melee. (Maybe not a bigger competitive playerbase, but they're not generating big twitch numbers)
Really? I started playing Melee/PM because I found Melee so exciting and fun to watch.
Some videos to illustrate the hype of competitive melee, because I felt like sharing
Axe and SilentWolf are both top 20 players in the world. Even though Fox is generally regarded as the best character in the game, Axe completely dismantles SW in the last game of this stock, using Pikachu no less. (Rest of the set was really tight, can be found here
A game on the complete different end of the spectrum: It lasts until 8:17. The ruleset states that the highest % in case of a timeout loses. These two have had quite the rivalry and you can see how hungrybox clutches it out by the skin of his teeth. Fun fact: when you go outside the screen you gain 2% per second, so it was even closer than most people think!
While a lot of people complain about melee only being about the same few characters, I find that this makes surprise showings of less viable characters all the more exciting. Here we've got Amsa, the crazy yoshi from japan, playing against Chu, the guy who made ice climbers viable in competitive play. They both had never before played against a master of the opposing character, making for an exciting match where they both had to figure stuff out on the fly.
On October 07 2014 22:20 shin ken wrote: I would not watch Evo if it's Melee.
I would watch Evo if they're broadcasting Smash 4 because I'm interested as I'm playing it myself.
I would guess that by the time Evo 2015 happens Smash 4 has a bigger playerbase then Melee. (Maybe not a bigger competitive playerbase, but they're not generating big twitch numbers)
For myself, the situation would be reversed. And Melee actually gets pretty reasonable numbers, at evo. I highly doubt that community, that has been following melee for a long time, would transfer over 100%. On top of that, casual players who dont even know about these tournaments do not equate to viewers. And we all know how awful nintendo is at promoting tournaments...
But smash 4 will likely be in the roster just because of sick nintendobux. I cant blame evo nor nintendo for it, but that doesnt make it right. It really does mirror the broodwar situation.
On October 07 2014 22:20 shin ken wrote: I would not watch Evo if it's Melee.
I would watch Evo if they're broadcasting Smash 4 because I'm interested as I'm playing it myself.
I would guess that by the time Evo 2015 happens Smash 4 has a bigger playerbase then Melee. (Maybe not a bigger competitive playerbase, but they're not generating big twitch numbers)
What?
The Big House 4 generated 40k viewers on Sunday. Second highest game viewed at the time right after LoL.
On October 07 2014 22:20 shin ken wrote: I would not watch Evo if it's Melee.
I would watch Evo if they're broadcasting Smash 4 because I'm interested as I'm playing it myself.
I would guess that by the time Evo 2015 happens Smash 4 has a bigger playerbase then Melee. (Maybe not a bigger competitive playerbase, but they're not generating big twitch numbers)
What?
The Big House 4 generated 40k viewers on Sunday. Second highest game viewed at the time right after LoL.
Melee numbers definatly gaining traction recently which may be because of more exposure like here on TL.net or because of the documentary but I it's also comparable to the SC2 release. Broodwar was getting alot more attention than usually in 09/10 before WoL (in tournaments like TSL2) , but then it was dropped like a hot potato, because a big part of the viewers only watched in anticipation of SC2.
Brawl was at EVO 2008 (the year after Melee was there, and the year Brawl came out).
It was undeveloped, campy, and an undeniably shitty finals. Not just from a Melee-elitism point of view, but even from a competitive Brawl point of view. They were terrible Brawl matches and poorly represented the competitive community.
Now, we are poised to do the same thing again. Smash 4 has not proven itself. In fact, coming from such a competitively flawed predecessor, it should require more time to prove itself before being allowed into EVO. But dat sweet Nintendo money is gonna be the swing vote here so what can you do.
On October 07 2014 22:20 shin ken wrote: I would not watch Evo if it's Melee.
I would watch Evo if they're broadcasting Smash 4 because I'm interested as I'm playing it myself.
I would guess that by the time Evo 2015 happens Smash 4 has a bigger playerbase then Melee. (Maybe not a bigger competitive playerbase, but they're not generating big twitch numbers)
You misunderstand the point of EVO. It is not E3. It does not exist to promote the newest shiniest game regardless of competitive community or value. If you would like to watch streams of people not really knowing what they're doing, there are plenty of those available for years to come. But please, keep it out of EVO until the metagame has developed further and Smash 4 has proven itself competitively viable.
Yeah EVO is for the real king nerds out there, willing to engage in sweaty, smelly combat hunched over the small screen. The other type of tourneys, MLG, etc, should do Smash 4 probably. Im actually pretty excited about Smash 4. Sure it's not melee, but it's still fun and a far larger amount of people will want to get into it.
Matches with Greninja, Sheik, Little Mac, or ZSS in S4 can compete with the best Melee has to offer, up to 100% or so. After that, the combos just kind of stop. When things go right, it turns into a series of absolutely bonkers off-stage combat, with players going unprecedently deep to gimp their opponents, due to the better recoveries and lack of edge hogging. When things go wrong, we end up with two heavily damaged players too afraid to get hit, and playing cat and mouse while one or both camps the other. Thank you, Duck Hunt Dog. It's possible that the metagame will devolve into conservatism and inbalance like Brawl's did, without any patches. But currently, SSB4 is looking nothing like Brawl from a spectator's standpoint.
I actually think waiting till around Apex to see if Smash 4 is going to be competitive viable like there should be no rush for saying Melee should be in EVO even though it's always enjoyable. However, letting time goes to tells if the competitive Smash 4 is going to do well. It's understandable that a lot of people enjoy playing Smash 4 on the 3DS (since the WiiU version isn't out and/or most people don't own a WiiU). By the time Apex rolls by it's easier to grasp the problems of Smash 4 and the players will give their competitive opinion about it either stream and/or twitter to the viewers. Plus Nintendo might have a big influence if they want Smash 4 in EVO by adding more money in the pot.