On March 22 2012 10:34 shtdisturbance wrote: Hey, I was hoping to run a marathon on the 17th of may. It will be my first one and I was wondering if you guys thought about 9 weeks would be sufficient amount of time to train. I ran 10 km yesterday for the first time in a long time and feel fine today so I thought it would be fun to train for something much longer. I was hoping someone could suggest a good program that they have used or that they know of. Another thing I would like help on is shoes. I am going to a running store friday so I assume they will help me but how much should I expect to pay and if there is a clear no or clear yes on shoes, let me know. Any advice you have on marathons would help because I don't know anyone that has ran one. Thank you.
I don't think 9 weeks is long enough if you have little running experience and have not been running. You will most likely get injured or have a miserable experience. In terms of a good program, give us some more information like your past running experience, your current ability, your fitness/running goals, and the amount of time you are ready to make available weekly for training.
Be prepared to spend around $90 for running shoes. Make sure the people at the store check to see what kind of a foot strike you have before they recommend shoes.
On March 22 2012 10:38 SolaR- wrote: I will be running my first 10k next Saturday. I trained only 6 weeks in advance, and this has been the first time Ive ever trained cardiovascular wise. I have always lifted weights, and have done light cardio such as walking and the elliptical. When I started I could do no more than a mile and 1/2. But I have made great progress and now able to run a 10k at a moderate pace. I will post my results here once I finish the race.
Good luck next weekend! What kind of training have you done to prepare for your race?
On March 22 2012 10:34 shtdisturbance wrote: Hey, I was hoping to run a marathon on the 17th of may. It will be my first one and I was wondering if you guys thought about 9 weeks would be sufficient amount of time to train. I ran 10 km yesterday for the first time in a long time and feel fine today so I thought it would be fun to train for something much longer. I was hoping someone could suggest a good program that they have used or that they know of. Another thing I would like help on is shoes. I am going to a running store friday so I assume they will help me but how much should I expect to pay and if there is a clear no or clear yes on shoes, let me know. Any advice you have on marathons would help because I don't know anyone that has ran one. Thank you.
I will say, if your of decent athletic background, and the 10km felt totally fine you could probably survive a marathon. It would probably be a slow, miserable slog though at best. So while I think it might be possible to complete a marathon in your case I would VERY strongly advise against it. There isn't a rush.
To give you an idea most serious marathoners training to actually race, not just survive, a marathon are running 100mpw on the low end to 200+ mpw on the high end with 120-140 mpw being about the middle range.
You certainly don't need to run that much by any means to do a marathon, but that gives you an idea of what it takes to be properly prepared for that particular race.
Begin Mini Rant The marathon isn't the end all, be all of running races. Recently though for whatever reason there has become somewhat of a commadization of the marathon, but this huge mass of people intent on finishing one. If it's a lifelong goal or it represents some awesome comeback from being in horrific shape, then I totally understand it and have serious respect for that accomplishment.
However, lots of people seem to want to "do a marathon" for the sake of doing a marathon; to say they have done the "26.2". I am not really a fan of this, from both a practical side, and from my competitive runner bias. For a healthy guy, or girl, in the prime of their life I really don't think doing a marathon is all that special. You run alot more than you have in the months leading up to it, finish it at a barely running, if that, pace. It's just not that insanely tough that way. Yea, it's alot more than most people have ever done in their life and it isn't easy but with proper training it's really not that difficult to finish a marathon, especially in 4,5, or 6+ hours. I dunno, it just strikes me as silly to do a marathon for the sake of doing a marathon, especially when you aren't training to race it but merely to survive the distance.
From a practical side it's also usually not a good idea because too many people find training plans, or have this goal of finishing a long race, and then try to "cram" either with too much too fast, or with ridiculous length long runs for the mileage they are running. The training ends up being miserable and/or they get injured and are left in a worse state of fitness than before and often now have an associated bad vibe with running. End Mini Rant
I would personally recommend just running more and ease into it, while maybe training seriously to run some fast 5K/10K's, If things are going well after some months, have worked your way up to running 40mpw or so and you find you are enjoying it and still really want to run a marathon; then your in a good place to start a decent 4-6 month marathon build up cycle.
On March 16 2012 17:48 Malinor wrote: It doesn't have to be Vibrams actually. Though I find the concept intriguing. But the longer I shop around the internet, the more I feel that I am joining a cult, and then there is always the possibility that you are just falling for a marketing strategy more than anything. And I would hate that. For some reason I had the impression that a lot of people in here were using these kind of shoes and the verdict would be unanimously positive. Good that I checked again.
I have been using Brooks Adrenaline since eight years or so, though I haven't bought a brand new pair in a couple of years, so they are basically totally worn out by now. I have never had an injury in those, and given that I have never been below 100kg during that time (I was around 106-108kg when I run my Marathon in 2005), that is probably a reason not to switch. My concern is mainly that I am now running more midfoot (actually don't know how I run back then, I just now made a conscious effort), and I sometimes find it not so comfortable running like that in shoes with heavy padding. It makes it basically harder to not somehow land heel first, especially when you are tired, though I don't think that is necessarily so bad as it is sometimes said. But this was basically my thought process for maybe giving minimalistic shoes a try.
Some people think they'll put on the Vibrams on and instantly be running like their ancestors in Africa 100,000 years ago (or w/e time period it was). They also forget that if they are running on concrete surfaces they need that cushioning that the shoe provides otherwise they will turn up with a stress fracture. Yes, there are people who can run amazing times with Vibrams, IIRC there was some chick in the NCAA who went under 15 for 5k (or something like that, I just remember it was a top time for the distance she was running). I'm willing to bet that she'd have dropped a couple secs from her time if she had run with proper footwear.
To conclude, yes I think the idea of minimalistic running is a clever marketing ploy to sell sandals for running.
I concur. The "science" behind minimalist shoes is far from conclusive. Don't be misled by people making claims about how amazing they are. The top runners in the world have access to the top doctors and scientists for any running related issue. Until the top doctors and top runners start taking their shoes off, I'm leaving mine on.
Thank you all for your responses, a really nice discussion.
I would like to move away from the barefoot-running discussion and ask about running shoes in general then. My main reason for thinking about barefoot running was basically that in my running shoes I find it a bit uncomfortable to run mid-foot. For me sometimes it is a bit of a hassle to avoid landing on the thick cushining on the heel. I am a pretty slow runner (since I am heavy and lift weights mostly), with more speed it is much easier to land mid-foot, but the slower I run the closer the movement is to simple walking. I consider mid-foot running to be my natural running pattern btw, not something that I have to force, it just feels that the shoes make it unneccessary complicated sometimes (especially fatigued).
So since you guys were mentioning how professional runners all use real shoes and such, I assume they don't run with pretty heavy high cushioning shoes all the time. What kind of shoes do they use for their normal training runs, I assume there should be some middle ground between those high cushioning shoes and barefoot running, which would mabye fit better to my needs. Or am I wrong and they run in those normal advertised running shoes themselves all the time? I find it incredibly hard to distinguish between advertising and genuin sound advice on a lot of sites about running shoes.
On March 22 2012 17:39 Malinor wrote: Thank you all for your responses, a really nice discussion.
I would like to move away from the barefoot-running discussion and ask about running shoes in general then. My main reason for thinking about barefoot running was basically that in my running shoes I find it a bit uncomfortable to run mid-foot. For me sometimes it is a bit of a hassle to avoid landing on the thick cushining on the heel. I am a pretty slow runner (since I am heavy and lift weights mostly), with more speed it is much easier to land mid-foot, but the slower I run the closer the movement is to simple walking. I consider mid-foot running to be my natural running pattern btw, not something that I have to force, it just feels that the shoes make it unneccessary complicated sometimes (especially fatigued).
So since you guys were mentioning how professional runners all use real shoes and such, I assume they don't run with pretty heavy high cushioning shoes all the time. What kind of shoes do they use for their normal training runs, I assume there should be some middle ground between those high cushioning shoes and barefoot running, which would mabye fit better to my needs. Or am I wrong and they run in those normal advertised running shoes themselves all the time? I find it incredibly hard to distinguish between advertising and genuin sound advice on a lot of sites about running shoes.
The only kind of shoes I've heard of really hardcore runners using fall in the "cheap as shit" category because they don't like cushioning. Still, professional relaxed paces are faster than most people's exhausting paces and they never have to struggle about form. My best advice is to find a shoe that is comfortable, a shoe that you think won't give you blisters on your mid/front foot after a few miles of running. As long as you make a conscious effort on avoiding heel-striking, you will, and eventually it'll become natural. So hunt for a comfortable fit. :D
Does anyone know wtf this problem is? I sorta assume it happened cuz I was running with bad form or something but would like to know how to correct/prevent it. I was woken up this morning during my still asleep or half/asleep state when I was stretching my feet. Suddenly a muscle at the bottom of my right foot just started hurting immensely like I pulled it or something. http://www.massagenerd.com/pictures/Bottom_of_Feet.JPG If you look at that picture, the pain was between right under 15 all the way to 23. The pain disappeared pretty much completely after 10 seconds and now I'm fine even when standing on my toes.
On March 22 2012 20:50 kaisr wrote: Does anyone know wtf this problem is? I sorta assume it happened cuz I was running with bad form or something but would like to know how to correct/prevent it. I was woken up this morning during my still asleep or half/asleep state when I was stretching my feet. Suddenly a muscle at the bottom of my right foot just started hurting immensely like I pulled it or something. http://www.massagenerd.com/pictures/Bottom_of_Feet.JPG If you look at that picture, the pain was between right under 15 all the way to 23. The pain disappeared pretty much completely after 10 seconds and now I'm fine even when standing on my toes.
Did it feel really tight? My guess is you had a muscle cramp, I get those in that area every now and then. Try getting some more potassium in your system, eat a banana.
My past running experience would be two 10km runs at 46 and 40:30 minutes. On sunday i ran 5km in 23 and felt fine so on the tuesday i ran 10km in 49 and felt fine so I was hoping to find some help on where to go from here. I am not doing this as a "i want to go run a marathon!" I graduated high school and have been feeling more lazy than I ever felt and want something that will motivate me to keep going and keep trying to stay fit. I am not hoping to feel all smug or anything because I ran it or go around telling everyone that I am running it. It is for me to feel better. High school sports were what I loved and its lonely without them. What would you think my weeks should like 9 weeks before a marathon? I wont jump right up to them obviously but I would like to see how far behind I am. If I am not ready for the marathon in 9 weeks I can also jump in the half and my chip registers for that instead so if I am not ready for it I can enjoy a half marathon. Thanks for your advice even if its hard to hear.
As for how much time I can dedicate that number is huge. I am not doing much right now so this is what I want to put my effort into.
On March 22 2012 21:20 shtdisturbance wrote: My past running experience would be two 10km runs at 46 and 40:30 minutes. On sunday i ran 5km in 23 and felt fine so on the tuesday i ran 10km in 49 and felt fine so I was hoping to find some help on where to go from here. I am not doing this as a "i want to go run a marathon!" I graduated high school and have been feeling more lazy than I ever felt and want something that will motivate me to keep going and keep trying to stay fit. I am not hoping to feel all smug or anything because I ran it or go around telling everyone that I am running it. It is for me to feel better. High school sports were what I loved and its lonely without them. What would you think my weeks should like 9 weeks before a marathon? I wont jump right up to them obviously but I would like to see how far behind I am. If I am not ready for the marathon in 9 weeks I can also jump in the half and my chip registers for that instead so if I am not ready for it I can enjoy a half marathon. Thanks for your advice even if its hard to hear.
As for how much time I can dedicate that number is huge. I am not doing much right now so this is what I want to put my effort into.
Probably the two most important things needed in order to run a marathon are 1) A relatively high weekly mileage and 2) One quality long run per week. So if you want to train for a marathon to finish it relatively fast rather than just finish it you should probably be running 6 days a week, 80 miles per week, and one 18 mile long run a week. This is a more low end, beginner friendly, but not for crazy out of shape people training goal.
The main thing is that it takes time to work up to something like this. Both weekly mileage and long runs need to be worked up to very gradually so you don't get injured. That being said, I know this is not the kind of thing you should be trying in such a short amount of time. If you choose to do the half, just slowly and gradually start building up your weekly mileage and add one long run of about but no more than 25% of your total weekly mileage per week. Be smart and cautious so you aren't overtraining or doing too much too soon. Listen to your body and don't get injured.
Looks like an awesome thread. I normally frequent the lifting thread (well the general thread I guess), but today I started C25K to train for my tough mudder coming up in October as well as another tool to drop weight. It was quite a different experience, that was for sure.
Well, welcome to the running section and good luck with your running endeavors!
Got two questions... Will I be fine if I eat the same way before I run as I do when I lift, such as the macros and such, or is there anything else I need to know besides more carbs pre-workout?
Honestly, other than having a clean diet and not being silly low on carbs eating is pretty flexible and different things work for different people. Eating gets a little more complicated when you start worrying about good multiple hour long runs or races, but still nothing that is rocket science.
I would generally recommend not eating within 60-90 minutes of a run, as the food in your stomach often doesn't fell good and more importantly a significant number of people run into...uh...GI problems when they do this. I assure you that's never fun. You'll kinda have to play around and see what works for you but as a general rule I would say you just want to feel like you have solid energy when you head out to run and aren't feeling sluggish/hungry.
Is there a way to discriminate who really knows what they're talking about compared to some joe smoh? I know when it comes to lifting, you can ask how to/how much they squat or deadlift and you can immediately tell who really knows what they are talking about.
It's probably harder to do with running as their is a much greater variety of what works. Some people can be successful with very hard workouts and relatively lesser mileage, whereas others are very much strength oriented guys that thrive off high mileage endurance based work with lots of tempos, marathon pace efforts, etc. thrown in. Because of the individuality of runners, event specific training, and speed/endurance responses you can get some pretty drastic different opinions about training.
Yes, faster runners are more likely to know what they are talking about than slower runs, but in running there is alot more natural variance. I don't know too many people that can go into a gym there first time and clean 205, or bench 225. It's much more common for a runner with good natural speed and some decent aerobic capability to run respectable times like sub 18 5K and sub 5 mile by just going out and jogging a few times a week with a few shitty workouts thrown in.
I would prefer to just ask a simple question if that is possible.
Yea, that's definitely fine.
Thanks, so far so good! C25K is like the perfect beginner program.
As for eating, I pretty much have that down from lifting so that is fine. As for telling the successful ones from the average joes, I guess I'll just have to play around with what people say. I only ask because I will be training people in the summer, and if running is their goal or a part of it, I want more info about it. I'll be asking around though :D
--- Final question for now.
I'm doing the tough mudder in october. For those of you who don't know, it is a 12 mile obstacle course. I just started C25K on tuesday, so I should be done with it in May. Will I have enough time to build up to an endurance of 12 miles, or reasonably close to twelve miles by October?
Good luck next weekend! What kind of training have you done to prepare for your race?
I have been running about 20 miles a week, and one of those days I run a 10k. I also been doing some cross-training, with riding the bike. I have also limited my lifting to only 2 days a week now. I haven't really done any specified training, I've been just running, hoping my body can get used to the idea
On March 22 2012 10:34 shtdisturbance wrote: Hey, I was hoping to run a marathon on the 17th of may. It will be my first one and I was wondering if you guys thought about 9 weeks would be sufficient amount of time to train. I ran 10 km yesterday for the first time in a long time and feel fine today so I thought it would be fun to train for something much longer. I was hoping someone could suggest a good program that they have used or that they know of. Another thing I would like help on is shoes. I am going to a running store friday so I assume they will help me but how much should I expect to pay and if there is a clear no or clear yes on shoes, let me know. Any advice you have on marathons would help because I don't know anyone that has ran one. Thank you.
I will say, if your of decent athletic background, and the 10km felt totally fine you could probably survive a marathon. It would probably be a slow, miserable slog though at best. So while I think it might be possible to complete a marathon in your case I would VERY strongly advise against it. There isn't a rush.
To give you an idea most serious marathoners training to actually race, not just survive, a marathon are running 100mpw on the low end to 200+ mpw on the high end with 120-140 mpw being about the middle range.
You certainly don't need to run that much by any means to do a marathon, but that gives you an idea of what it takes to be properly prepared for that particular race.
Begin Mini Rant The marathon isn't the end all, be all of running races. Recently though for whatever reason there has become somewhat of a commadization of the marathon, but this huge mass of people intent on finishing one. If it's a lifelong goal or it represents some awesome comeback from being in horrific shape, then I totally understand it and have serious respect for that accomplishment.
However, lots of people seem to want to "do a marathon" for the sake of doing a marathon; to say they have done the "26.2". I am not really a fan of this, from both a practical side, and from my competitive runner bias. For a healthy guy, or girl, in the prime of their life I really don't think doing a marathon is all that special. You run alot more than you have in the months leading up to it, finish it at a barely running, if that, pace. It's just not that insanely tough that way. Yea, it's alot more than most people have ever done in their life and it isn't easy but with proper training it's really not that difficult to finish a marathon, especially in 4,5, or 6+ hours. I dunno, it just strikes me as silly to do a marathon for the sake of doing a marathon, especially when you aren't training to race it but merely to survive the distance.
From a practical side it's also usually not a good idea because too many people find training plans, or have this goal of finishing a long race, and then try to "cram" either with too much too fast, or with ridiculous length long runs for the mileage they are running. The training ends up being miserable and/or they get injured and are left in a worse state of fitness than before and often now have an associated bad vibe with running. End Mini Rant
I would personally recommend just running more and ease into it, while maybe training seriously to run some fast 5K/10K's, If things are going well after some months, have worked your way up to running 40mpw or so and you find you are enjoying it and still really want to run a marathon; then your in a good place to start a decent 4-6 month marathon build up cycle.
I've read through this thread for the past couple days and overall you seem like a pretty informed runner, but I completely disagree with you in this post.
For the average human being, the marathon _is_ the be all end all of races, it's the holy grail of running. Most people don't know the ins and outs of the marathon or know about the training that it takes to actually race a marathon, but they still know what it is and that it's a huge accomplishment to finish. It's a bucket list type item or a sense of belonging to a group that has accomplished something that only a small percentage of people will do.
I still think there is more to it though. I definitely can't run like I used to and I miss a lot of things about running these days. I miss the competitive side a lot, going out there and laying it all on the line to try to beat the other guys. That isn't what I miss most about the daily grind though; I miss the satisfaction that comes along with completing long runs and the feeling of camaraderie that you get from working your ass of with the people around you.
There's just something about it: the internal struggles, trying to prove that you have the will power to continue on even though it hurts like hell. To be a part of the process of getting to that point and knowing that you continued when you could have stopped is one of the best feelings in the world. The great thing about the marathon is that it provides that struggle differently depending on what you are after. It might not be that big of a deal to you personally to finish, but I bet it would be a big deal to go sub 3:05 and qualifying for Boston. You just can't get that in a lot of other sports.
Anyways, I don't mean this as a bash or to try to derail from the topic at hand anymore... I just think that not everyone care's about racing your absolute best time and thats okay. Completion _is_ good enough for most, and if its not -- there are a lot of other personal goals people can set between completion and 2:03.37.
Thought here might be a good place to ask since runners get really high use out of their shoes:
If any of you use the vibram 'toe shoes', how fast do they tend to wear out? I am thinking I will buy a pair, but I don't want to have to replace them quickly at their cost.
On March 22 2012 10:34 shtdisturbance wrote: Hey, I was hoping to run a marathon on the 17th of may. It will be my first one and I was wondering if you guys thought about 9 weeks would be sufficient amount of time to train. I ran 10 km yesterday for the first time in a long time and feel fine today so I thought it would be fun to train for something much longer. I was hoping someone could suggest a good program that they have used or that they know of. Another thing I would like help on is shoes. I am going to a running store friday so I assume they will help me but how much should I expect to pay and if there is a clear no or clear yes on shoes, let me know. Any advice you have on marathons would help because I don't know anyone that has ran one. Thank you.
I will say, if your of decent athletic background, and the 10km felt totally fine you could probably survive a marathon. It would probably be a slow, miserable slog though at best. So while I think it might be possible to complete a marathon in your case I would VERY strongly advise against it. There isn't a rush.
To give you an idea most serious marathoners training to actually race, not just survive, a marathon are running 100mpw on the low end to 200+ mpw on the high end with 120-140 mpw being about the middle range.
You certainly don't need to run that much by any means to do a marathon, but that gives you an idea of what it takes to be properly prepared for that particular race.
Begin Mini Rant The marathon isn't the end all, be all of running races. Recently though for whatever reason there has become somewhat of a commadization of the marathon, but this huge mass of people intent on finishing one. If it's a lifelong goal or it represents some awesome comeback from being in horrific shape, then I totally understand it and have serious respect for that accomplishment.
However, lots of people seem to want to "do a marathon" for the sake of doing a marathon; to say they have done the "26.2". I am not really a fan of this, from both a practical side, and from my competitive runner bias. For a healthy guy, or girl, in the prime of their life I really don't think doing a marathon is all that special. You run alot more than you have in the months leading up to it, finish it at a barely running, if that, pace. It's just not that insanely tough that way. Yea, it's alot more than most people have ever done in their life and it isn't easy but with proper training it's really not that difficult to finish a marathon, especially in 4,5, or 6+ hours. I dunno, it just strikes me as silly to do a marathon for the sake of doing a marathon, especially when you aren't training to race it but merely to survive the distance.
From a practical side it's also usually not a good idea because too many people find training plans, or have this goal of finishing a long race, and then try to "cram" either with too much too fast, or with ridiculous length long runs for the mileage they are running. The training ends up being miserable and/or they get injured and are left in a worse state of fitness than before and often now have an associated bad vibe with running. End Mini Rant
I would personally recommend just running more and ease into it, while maybe training seriously to run some fast 5K/10K's, If things are going well after some months, have worked your way up to running 40mpw or so and you find you are enjoying it and still really want to run a marathon; then your in a good place to start a decent 4-6 month marathon build up cycle.
I've read through this thread for the past couple days and overall you seem like a pretty informed runner, but I completely disagree with you in this post.
For the average human being, the marathon _is_ the be all end all of races, it's the holy grail of running. Most people don't know the ins and outs of the marathon or know about the training that it takes to actually race a marathon, but they still know what it is and that it's a huge accomplishment to finish. It's a bucket list type item or a sense of belonging to a group that has accomplished something that only a small percentage of people will do.
I still think there is more to it though. I definitely can't run like I used to and I miss a lot of things about running these days. I miss the competitive side a lot, going out there and laying it all on the line to try to beat the other guys. That isn't what I miss most about the daily grind though; I miss the satisfaction that comes along with completing long runs and the feeling of camaraderie that you get from working your ass of with the people around you.
There's just something about it: the internal struggles, trying to prove that you have the will power to continue on even though it hurts like hell. To be a part of the process of getting to that point and knowing that you continued when you could have stopped is one of the best feelings in the world. The great thing about the marathon is that it provides that struggle differently depending on what you are after. It might not be that big of a deal to you personally to finish, but I bet it would be a big deal to go sub 3:05 and qualifying for Boston. You just can't get that in a lot of other sports.
Anyways, I don't mean this as a bash or to try to derail from the topic at hand anymore... I just think that not everyone care's about racing your absolute best time and thats okay. Completion _is_ good enough for most, and if its not -- there are a lot of other personal goals people can set between completion and 2:03.37.
I think only competitive and serious runners play by the rule of it's the time, not distance that matters. I'd be much happier with a 15:00 5k than a 3:00:00 marathon but to some people they would take any time in the marathon because it's a marathon and they set out to just complete it rather than worry about times.
A guy I ran with regularly does 100+ mile races. Whenever people think I run or have run long distances I just think about this guy. I even think he's crazy so what do non-runners think?
On March 23 2012 10:01 berated- wrote: (...) It might not be that big of a deal to you personally to finish, but I bet it would be a big deal to go sub 3:05 and qualifying for Boston (...)
It's true! How did I miss this? They took off 5 mins from both mens and womens marathon times for 2013...
On March 23 2012 10:01 berated- wrote: (...) It might not be that big of a deal to you personally to finish, but I bet it would be a big deal to go sub 3:05 and qualifying for Boston (...)
It's true! How did I miss this? They took off 5 mins from both mens and womens marathon times for 2013...
I only know this because my twin went 3:00.26 . He wanted to break 3, but had to settle for qualifying for boston.
Hey so I have started running and about 2 inches above my ankle just behind the tibia has a slight ake to it while walking. Nothing bad at all just wondering if you think it would get worse with another run. I know it could be shin splits? Any suggestions?
On March 22 2012 10:34 shtdisturbance wrote: Hey, I was hoping to run a marathon on the 17th of may. It will be my first one and I was wondering if you guys thought about 9 weeks would be sufficient amount of time to train. I ran 10 km yesterday for the first time in a long time and feel fine today so I thought it would be fun to train for something much longer. I was hoping someone could suggest a good program that they have used or that they know of. Another thing I would like help on is shoes. I am going to a running store friday so I assume they will help me but how much should I expect to pay and if there is a clear no or clear yes on shoes, let me know. Any advice you have on marathons would help because I don't know anyone that has ran one. Thank you.
I will say, if your of decent athletic background, and the 10km felt totally fine you could probably survive a marathon. It would probably be a slow, miserable slog though at best. So while I think it might be possible to complete a marathon in your case I would VERY strongly advise against it. There isn't a rush.
To give you an idea most serious marathoners training to actually race, not just survive, a marathon are running 100mpw on the low end to 200+ mpw on the high end with 120-140 mpw being about the middle range.
You certainly don't need to run that much by any means to do a marathon, but that gives you an idea of what it takes to be properly prepared for that particular race.
Begin Mini Rant The marathon isn't the end all, be all of running races. Recently though for whatever reason there has become somewhat of a commadization of the marathon, but this huge mass of people intent on finishing one. If it's a lifelong goal or it represents some awesome comeback from being in horrific shape, then I totally understand it and have serious respect for that accomplishment.
However, lots of people seem to want to "do a marathon" for the sake of doing a marathon; to say they have done the "26.2". I am not really a fan of this, from both a practical side, and from my competitive runner bias. For a healthy guy, or girl, in the prime of their life I really don't think doing a marathon is all that special. You run alot more than you have in the months leading up to it, finish it at a barely running, if that, pace. It's just not that insanely tough that way. Yea, it's alot more than most people have ever done in their life and it isn't easy but with proper training it's really not that difficult to finish a marathon, especially in 4,5, or 6+ hours. I dunno, it just strikes me as silly to do a marathon for the sake of doing a marathon, especially when you aren't training to race it but merely to survive the distance.
From a practical side it's also usually not a good idea because too many people find training plans, or have this goal of finishing a long race, and then try to "cram" either with too much too fast, or with ridiculous length long runs for the mileage they are running. The training ends up being miserable and/or they get injured and are left in a worse state of fitness than before and often now have an associated bad vibe with running. End Mini Rant
I would personally recommend just running more and ease into it, while maybe training seriously to run some fast 5K/10K's, If things are going well after some months, have worked your way up to running 40mpw or so and you find you are enjoying it and still really want to run a marathon; then your in a good place to start a decent 4-6 month marathon build up cycle.
I've read through this thread for the past couple days and overall you seem like a pretty informed runner, but I completely disagree with you in this post.
For the average human being, the marathon _is_ the be all end all of races, it's the holy grail of running. Most people don't know the ins and outs of the marathon or know about the training that it takes to actually race a marathon, but they still know what it is and that it's a huge accomplishment to finish. It's a bucket list type item or a sense of belonging to a group that has accomplished something that only a small percentage of people will do.
I still think there is more to it though. I definitely can't run like I used to and I miss a lot of things about running these days. I miss the competitive side a lot, going out there and laying it all on the line to try to beat the other guys. That isn't what I miss most about the daily grind though; I miss the satisfaction that comes along with completing long runs and the feeling of camaraderie that you get from working your ass of with the people around you.
There's just something about it: the internal struggles, trying to prove that you have the will power to continue on even though it hurts like hell. To be a part of the process of getting to that point and knowing that you continued when you could have stopped is one of the best feelings in the world. The great thing about the marathon is that it provides that struggle differently depending on what you are after. It might not be that big of a deal to you personally to finish, but I bet it would be a big deal to go sub 3:05 and qualifying for Boston. You just can't get that in a lot of other sports.
Anyways, I don't mean this as a bash or to try to derail from the topic at hand anymore... I just think that not everyone care's about racing your absolute best time and thats okay. Completion _is_ good enough for most, and if its not -- there are a lot of other personal goals people can set between completion and 2:03.37.
For the average human being, the marathon _is_ the be all end all of races, it's the holy grail of running. Most people don't know the ins and outs of the marathon or know about the training that it takes to actually race a marathon, but they still know what it is and that it's a huge accomplishment to finish.
Maybe this is part of where we disagree. For some people finishing a marathon is without question, a major accomplishment. It's a major step in the improvement of their lives and a powerful symbolic event of just how far they have come.
However, for what I would consider a typical, average fitness HS/college student, merely completeting a marathon is not that big of an accomplishment. It just isn't that insanely tough to just finish. Many overweight 50+ year old people finish at every marathon; which isn't something that screams super difficult to me. If you want something that's difficult complete, that would be an event like Race Across the Sky, where something like 1/3-1/2 drop out or fail to finish. When fairly out of shape, overweight, decades past their prime can finish it tells you it's not super, crazy difficult.
Is finishing a marathon easy for a typical person. HELL NO. But is it some crazy, super challenge? In my opinion it isn't. I have done plenty of 20 and 22 mile long runs before, and the occasional one at 26 and 28 miles. These were at a relatively easy pace for me and I didn't find them exceptionally challenging. I was very spent at the end, but it didn't take tremendous effort of will or enduring through massive fatigue to finish. The first time I did a run of that length I was only at about 40-50mpw.
I think part of what confuses me is this minimalist culture. I see SO many threads in various places of which the gist is "how little can I run and still finish the marathon" or "how few miles do I need to run to break 3." This amounts to "I want to run a marathon" BUT "I want to do as little work as possible"......
wtf?
I also dislike this because when you focus on just trying to finish the event, especially if it's accompanied with the minimalist attitude it's probably not as good in the long run for their fitness either.
I guess this issue gets my grill a little because of the combination of two factors. One is a bit more selfish in that it's a little silly to see these people that go out, do what they barely need to do to finish a marathon, finish in 5 and a half hours and then think they are a better runner than the guy who runs sub 22, sub 20, or sub 15 5K that hasn't/isn't interested in running a marathon. In my experience this is pretty common. Being proud of yourself for finishing a marathon is fantastic, getting a sense of entitlement and thinking your a great runner because you survived a marathon...no so much. More importantly though, it frustrates me because it results in so many people getting turned off from running due to injuries and/or a miserable marathon experience and moreover in most cases I think they would see much better fitness gains and have more fun if they were to focus on trying to run faster, not further. Just hopping into a marathon to prove something to yourself /others isn't usually a good idea.
Feel free to continue to criticize/disagree/etc as it only helps me to flesh out my thoughts about why I feel the way I do.
A guy I ran with regularly does 100+ mile races. Whenever people think I run or have run long distances I just think about this guy. I even think he's crazy so what do non-runners think?
I am with you there. Those kinds of ultras are crazy as heck to me. 100 miles? At once?! Shit that's a pretty darn high volume for one week. When I have done 26-28 mile runs a couple times I have been very wiped at the end. Even another 3, 4, or 5 sounds pretty darn crazy....but 70+ more miles! Good lord.
While I do think it would be a somewhat interesting item to check off the bucket-list I honestly don't ever see myself training for one of these. It's too much time to give up on the weekends and more importantly these kind of races are just too "ploddy" for me. I like running fast by and large, and going out and training to run at 1,2, 3+ minutes slower than my easy run pace would be extremely uninteresting to me personally.
Looks like an awesome thread. I normally frequent the lifting thread (well the general thread I guess), but today I started C25K to train for my tough mudder coming up in October as well as another tool to drop weight. It was quite a different experience, that was for sure.
Well, welcome to the running section and good luck with your running endeavors!
Got two questions... Will I be fine if I eat the same way before I run as I do when I lift, such as the macros and such, or is there anything else I need to know besides more carbs pre-workout?
Honestly, other than having a clean diet and not being silly low on carbs eating is pretty flexible and different things work for different people. Eating gets a little more complicated when you start worrying about good multiple hour long runs or races, but still nothing that is rocket science.
I would generally recommend not eating within 60-90 minutes of a run, as the food in your stomach often doesn't fell good and more importantly a significant number of people run into...uh...GI problems when they do this. I assure you that's never fun. You'll kinda have to play around and see what works for you but as a general rule I would say you just want to feel like you have solid energy when you head out to run and aren't feeling sluggish/hungry.
Is there a way to discriminate who really knows what they're talking about compared to some joe smoh? I know when it comes to lifting, you can ask how to/how much they squat or deadlift and you can immediately tell who really knows what they are talking about.
It's probably harder to do with running as their is a much greater variety of what works. Some people can be successful with very hard workouts and relatively lesser mileage, whereas others are very much strength oriented guys that thrive off high mileage endurance based work with lots of tempos, marathon pace efforts, etc. thrown in. Because of the individuality of runners, event specific training, and speed/endurance responses you can get some pretty drastic different opinions about training.
Yes, faster runners are more likely to know what they are talking about than slower runs, but in running there is alot more natural variance. I don't know too many people that can go into a gym there first time and clean 205, or bench 225. It's much more common for a runner with good natural speed and some decent aerobic capability to run respectable times like sub 18 5K and sub 5 mile by just going out and jogging a few times a week with a few shitty workouts thrown in.
I would prefer to just ask a simple question if that is possible.
Yea, that's definitely fine.
Thanks, so far so good! C25K is like the perfect beginner program.
As for eating, I pretty much have that down from lifting so that is fine. As for telling the successful ones from the average joes, I guess I'll just have to play around with what people say. I only ask because I will be training people in the summer, and if running is their goal or a part of it, I want more info about it. I'll be asking around though :D
--- Final question for now.
I'm doing the tough mudder in october. For those of you who don't know, it is a 12 mile obstacle course. I just started C25K on tuesday, so I should be done with it in May. Will I have enough time to build up to an endurance of 12 miles, or reasonably close to twelve miles by October?
Yes. I don't think that will be a huge issue. If your running 30-50 mpw (ideally closer to 40+), with the occasional 10 or so mile long run you'll have little trouble with the race. Building up 10 mpw or so over the course of the summer is a very reasonable build-up that should leave you quite fit and more than prepared for the race.
On March 22 2012 10:34 shtdisturbance wrote: Hey, I was hoping to run a marathon on the 17th of may. It will be my first one and I was wondering if you guys thought about 9 weeks would be sufficient amount of time to train. I ran 10 km yesterday for the first time in a long time and feel fine today so I thought it would be fun to train for something much longer. I was hoping someone could suggest a good program that they have used or that they know of. Another thing I would like help on is shoes. I am going to a running store friday so I assume they will help me but how much should I expect to pay and if there is a clear no or clear yes on shoes, let me know. Any advice you have on marathons would help because I don't know anyone that has ran one. Thank you.
I will say, if your of decent athletic background, and the 10km felt totally fine you could probably survive a marathon. It would probably be a slow, miserable slog though at best. So while I think it might be possible to complete a marathon in your case I would VERY strongly advise against it. There isn't a rush.
To give you an idea most serious marathoners training to actually race, not just survive, a marathon are running 100mpw on the low end to 200+ mpw on the high end with 120-140 mpw being about the middle range.
You certainly don't need to run that much by any means to do a marathon, but that gives you an idea of what it takes to be properly prepared for that particular race.
Begin Mini Rant The marathon isn't the end all, be all of running races. Recently though for whatever reason there has become somewhat of a commadization of the marathon, but this huge mass of people intent on finishing one. If it's a lifelong goal or it represents some awesome comeback from being in horrific shape, then I totally understand it and have serious respect for that accomplishment.
However, lots of people seem to want to "do a marathon" for the sake of doing a marathon; to say they have done the "26.2". I am not really a fan of this, from both a practical side, and from my competitive runner bias. For a healthy guy, or girl, in the prime of their life I really don't think doing a marathon is all that special. You run alot more than you have in the months leading up to it, finish it at a barely running, if that, pace. It's just not that insanely tough that way. Yea, it's alot more than most people have ever done in their life and it isn't easy but with proper training it's really not that difficult to finish a marathon, especially in 4,5, or 6+ hours. I dunno, it just strikes me as silly to do a marathon for the sake of doing a marathon, especially when you aren't training to race it but merely to survive the distance.
From a practical side it's also usually not a good idea because too many people find training plans, or have this goal of finishing a long race, and then try to "cram" either with too much too fast, or with ridiculous length long runs for the mileage they are running. The training ends up being miserable and/or they get injured and are left in a worse state of fitness than before and often now have an associated bad vibe with running. End Mini Rant
I would personally recommend just running more and ease into it, while maybe training seriously to run some fast 5K/10K's, If things are going well after some months, have worked your way up to running 40mpw or so and you find you are enjoying it and still really want to run a marathon; then your in a good place to start a decent 4-6 month marathon build up cycle.
I've read through this thread for the past couple days and overall you seem like a pretty informed runner, but I completely disagree with you in this post.
For the average human being, the marathon _is_ the be all end all of races, it's the holy grail of running. Most people don't know the ins and outs of the marathon or know about the training that it takes to actually race a marathon, but they still know what it is and that it's a huge accomplishment to finish. It's a bucket list type item or a sense of belonging to a group that has accomplished something that only a small percentage of people will do.
I still think there is more to it though. I definitely can't run like I used to and I miss a lot of things about running these days. I miss the competitive side a lot, going out there and laying it all on the line to try to beat the other guys. That isn't what I miss most about the daily grind though; I miss the satisfaction that comes along with completing long runs and the feeling of camaraderie that you get from working your ass of with the people around you.
There's just something about it: the internal struggles, trying to prove that you have the will power to continue on even though it hurts like hell. To be a part of the process of getting to that point and knowing that you continued when you could have stopped is one of the best feelings in the world. The great thing about the marathon is that it provides that struggle differently depending on what you are after. It might not be that big of a deal to you personally to finish, but I bet it would be a big deal to go sub 3:05 and qualifying for Boston. You just can't get that in a lot of other sports.
Anyways, I don't mean this as a bash or to try to derail from the topic at hand anymore... I just think that not everyone care's about racing your absolute best time and thats okay. Completion _is_ good enough for most, and if its not -- there are a lot of other personal goals people can set between completion and 2:03.37.
For the average human being, the marathon _is_ the be all end all of races, it's the holy grail of running. Most people don't know the ins and outs of the marathon or know about the training that it takes to actually race a marathon, but they still know what it is and that it's a huge accomplishment to finish.
...
I guess this issue gets my grill a little because of the combination of two factors. One is a bit more selfish in that it's a little silly to see these people that go out, do what they barely need to do to finish a marathon, finish in 5 and a half hours and then think they are a better runner than the guy who runs sub 22, sub 20, or sub 15 5K that hasn't/isn't interested in running a marathon. In my experience this is pretty common. Being proud of yourself for finishing a marathon is fantastic, getting a sense of entitlement and thinking your a great runner because you survived a marathon...no so much. More importantly though, it frustrates me because it results in so many people getting turned off from running due to injuries and/or a miserable marathon experience and moreover in most cases I think they would see much better fitness gains and have more fun if they were to focus on trying to run faster, not further. Just hopping into a marathon to prove something to yourself /others isn't usually a good idea.
...
While I didn't agree with your original point of thought, that doesn't mean I didn't understand where you were coming from. I guess I just hope that someone who is actually in shape enough to finish a marathon with relative ease tries to set their goals higher than just finishing. I had a buddy who never really ran, but started training for a marathon. He was fairly athletic, played a lot of ultimate... but even for him his goal wasn't just to finish -- it was to go sub 4hrs. Enough on that though.
As for the arrogance factor, I just can't let it go -- sorry. Totally with you for the sub 22, sub 20, but sub 15? Calling bs! You're a BA if you're going sub 15. If someone running a 5:30 marathon thinks they are better than you and it bothers you still, you've got some serious confidence issues
I am with you there. Those kinds of ultras are crazy as heck to me. 100 miles? At once?! Shit that's a pretty darn high volume for one week. When I have done 26-28 mile runs a couple times I have been very wiped at the end. Even another 3, 4, or 5 sounds pretty darn crazy....but 70+ more miles! Good lord.
Ultra marathoners are completely nuts. This is one of the areas where I know some runners start to waffle on, especially Dean Karnazes, but what those guys do is impressive. I read his book and the most ridiculous thing that stood out to me: he did a 200+ mi race and still dropped a sub 6 for his last mile.