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Today, I did 7 miles on the treadmill in a bit under an hour, and it felt really good.
This bodes well, especially if you didn't feel totally wiped at the end. 7 is a long way from 13; but if your getting through that comfortably (and at a respectable clip) your looking in pretty good shape as long as you stay on top of the training. It could still be a bit quick for most general running but 7 miles steady at that pace without being wiped tells me your in a decent spot.
I guess I should look into getting some of those.
It's good to race at least occasionally. It's a good barometer for your fitness, keeps you motivated, and serves as a good hard anerobic/VO2Max stimulus. Plus it's fun...although if your actually racing it's admittedly only fun in a way a runner would call it fun though.
But, if you think that running shorter that often will really make a huge difference, I'll try it out for a couple of weeks.
It's a pretty big difference. Consistency in and of itself is a pretty potent tool for improving your fitness not to mention the benefits from a generally higher global volume. Phase it in though I'd say and don't rush, as it sounds like your training is going fairly well at the moment.
I see a "quick three mile run" as taking about an hour of my time.
o.O
You must take some long showers. It sounds like your taking 24-27 minutes or so to get through 3 miles. A quick rinse shower only takes me 1-3 min tops. Maybe another minute to throw my clothes back on. If you set it all up right ahead of time you can get really efficient about it.
Gets a little worse though if you have drive to running sites.
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Running 3miles is not a good option for everyone. For instance, when I go running, I have at least 1 mile when I can't really enjoy it (streets with traffic). So 3 miles would mean 2 shitty miles for 1 enjoyable mile. 4 or 5 miles are a minimum for me.
My priorities in running are : 1. No injury 2. Enjoy it 3. Improvement
And after 2 or 3 years of running with this in mind, now around 15-20mpw (3-4 times a week), I can do a 1:50 half marathon. L_Master will probably say it's slow as hell or "not fun", but I don't care. No need to run 6 times a week, 30-50 mpw or more. I would try this if I wanted to improve drastically, aiming for 1:35 or something. But it is not needed to train this much. Even if such a training is probably a very good way to improve performance a lot. It's a choice, not an obligation.
PS : I forgot to say I have a friend running halfmarathons in 1:25, training less than 35mpw, 4 times a week.
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This gentleman was my father's friend in high school and always really inspired me as a runner. I used to think to myself "If Paul Reese can run across the United States as senior citizen surely I can finish this workout." I still have a race shirt he gave me when I was a kid and I run in it sometimes.
Paul Reese Bio
I have a few reactions to what I'm reading in this thread. Everyone's approach to running is different and that's o.k. However, personally, I would try not to think about a training regimen purely in terms of miles per week (serious runners already know this probably). Miles per week is useful as a limiting factor--i.e. it gives you some guidance to avoid repetitive stress injuries. It isn't really useful beyond that.
I put running workouts in three categories: base, speed, recovery. Base running is about building up aerobic capacity without stressing muscles. It should be fun and relaxed. I usually measure it in terms of time. For example, "my first week of base running starting from zero I will try to run 30 minutes per day because after 30 my body is stressed. Next week I will move up to 35 minutes if I feel good. I will continue this for 4-6 weeks until I have a good base."
Speed workouts should be oriented around (a) the race distance you want to run and (b) your target pace for that distance. Think of it like weight training. You want to practice lifting something unusually heavy for a short amount of time in order to increase your lifting capacity over time. If people want to post speed workouts into this thread I will try to check in on it and give feedback.
Recovery is easy--just tell youself to go out and run at about 75% of your race pace for a longer period of time than it takes you to complete your race (this rule of thumb obviously does not apply to extreme distance running like marathons). So if I'm trying to race in the 8k-10k distance and I finish those in a 30-40 minute area, then 45 minutes at 75% is a good recovery day. Base running and recovery running are closely related, except it's okay to feel like you're pushing yourself more in terms of building base because you're trying to increase capacity. Recovery running is about maintaining capacity, although you should slowly increase it over time.
A word about the relationship of training distance to race distance for endurance running. I personally believe that in order to feel good about a race you really ought to be training at longer distances. I.e., to race a half marathon you really ought to have a long training run of 15 miles+ built into your workout somewhere. If you can't run 15 miles then a 13 mile race will just feel awful and you should just race shorter distances. I personally feel this holds true even at extreme distances. My first (&only) marathon my training runs topped out at about 19 miles. During the race my body fell apart at mile 22, even though I was working from a "base" of over ten years of regular & competitive running.
A word about injuries. This is where limiting your weekly distance matters. Repetitive stress injuries like IT band tendinitis, shin splints and plantar fascitis build up over time before suddenly manifesting themselves and then take months to go away. So just because you CAN run more mileage and aren't feeling bad NOW doesn't mean you won't pay for it LATER. A rule of thumb I have always been told is for someone at zero 20-25 miles per week is a good start and then increase 5 miles per week per year of running. I've never investigated that but it seems safe to me. I really cannot recommend anyone follow these programs (like Team in Training) that take you from zero to a marathon in less than a year. Pick a shorter distance.
Lastly: STRETCH STRETCH STRETCH STRETCH EVERY DAY EVERY WORKOUT BEFORE AND AFTER. This is the best way to avoid injury.
I just found this thread today and it's really inspiring to see. Keep running!
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On April 07 2012 22:36 Occultus wrote: Race is over, did a 17:57!
Development of my PRs: May/June: started running June 2011: 25:20 August 2011: 21:24 Septemper 2011: 19:44 New year 2011/2012: 18:57 April 2012: 17:57
Im scared of myself O.O
I'm impressed by your numbers. Man, I would like to run a 1km @ 5min. So far I'm running 1km @ 6min. How do I improve that number, let's say in 2 months? If I push it, I can run 200m/1min (which would obv lead to 1km/5min), but then I really feel like I'm pushing myself hard and get tired in 5-6 min. What's the best way to slowly improve speed?
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In my early days of running i just went to runnersworld and took a premade plan for 22:45m 5k. Example:
Week 1: Day1 40min easy (it should feel easy all the time) Day2 Rest Day3 8x(90sec fast/90sec walk) Distance doesnt matter, it should just feel hard around the 5th rep; warmup+cooldown ofc Day4 Rest Day5 60min easy Day6 Rest Day7 Rest or 30 min easy
Week 2 Day1 Rest Day2 10 min easy warmup,6x(3min fast/2min rest), 10 min easy cooldown Day3 Rest Day4 40min easy Day5 Rest Day6 Rest Day7 60 min easy
Week 3 Day1 Rest Day2 7x(400m fast/90sec walk) warumup+cooldown Day3 Rest Day4 40min easy Day5 Rest Day6 30min fast (start slowly and advance in speed, warmup+cooldown Day7 Rest
This should work for you, you can repeat this plan 2 times so you got 6 weeks in total. After that you should be able to do that given youre not a heavy smoker or obese.
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On April 07 2012 23:32 ghost_403 wrote: So, I've been running for a little while now, and I'm looking for some feedback on my running habits. I'm training for a half marathon coming up in a few months. I think L_Master recommended earlier that I hit around 30 mpw within a month or so to start getting ready for that. I'm curious to know, how often would you expect me to be running doing 30mpw? Right now, I've been doing 20, running three days a week. I just don't have the time to run more often than that. Should I start thinking about running more, or is that a good distance for how often I work out?
Also, I'm wondering about my pacing. Right now, when I run, I'm doing about 8 minute miles for five+ miles when I run. I've found that that makes a pretty good workout. That a good pace for someone training for a half marathon, or do I need to start kicking it into high gear?
If you're running 40 minutes 3 times per week at 8 minute pace that is better than a lot of people. So go you!
At your level you can train to run a half in a few months but you will find it hard to train to run it in way that makes you feel really good. You will run the race and feel tapped and need to go back down to base training. But if you have your heart set on doing it here is what I would do. You need one long training run per week. Sundays are a good day for this if you're on a normal work schedule. You need to get that run up to 15 miles 2 weeks before the half. Increase by even increments up to that point.
For example, if 8 miles is the longest you've run so far and the race is in 8 weeks, you have 6 weeks to get to 15 miles. That's enough time. This week run 9 on Sunday, then next week run 10, the following run 11, etc. Then two weeks before the race run 15, then dial back down for two weeks.
You'd be better off running 6 days per week. But if you really only have time for three days I would put in a HARD speed workout at least one day. Do a track workout one week and a trail/road interval workout the next. With stretching, warm up etc. this will take you an hour. Your third run should be a recovery run. 40 minutes is fine but if you can work it up to 60 that would be better. Your body and mind need to start being accustomed to running longer than an hour.
Here are some speed workouts that would be appropriate for your conditioning level:
(trail/road) 2/1 fartlek (2 minutes hard 1 recover) for 30-40 minutes or whatever feels okay. (trail/road) 3/2 fartlek for 40-50 minutes or whatever feels okay. (track) 8-10X400 at THE SAME PACE followed by 4X400 at whatever you have left (leave everything out there). 1 min recovery (track) 4-6X800. 90 sec recovery
Here's an example of an advanced track workout for distance runners with a lot of mileage under their belts (you can work up to this in the long term):
3 sets of 8X200 at the SAME PACE so that's a total of 24X200. 30 sec recovery between each 200 with a longer break between each set.
I'm not sure running three times a week for 30 total miles is a great path to a half but if your heart is set on it then what I've described will get you there.
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Thanks, i'll definitely try that.
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Running 3miles is not a good option for everyone. For instance, when I go running, I have at least 1 mile when I can't really enjoy it (streets with traffic). So 3 miles would mean 2 shitty miles for 1 enjoyable mile. 4 or 5 miles are a minimum for me.
Absolutely. If you can run more and do well with it and enjoy it that is fantastic. The reason you see those sorts of recommendations is that for many newer runners that tends to be a pretty healthy run, and get easily get too long/hard that it isn't enjoyable. A big part of running is finding out what suits you and works well both physically AND mentally. Sounds like you have that down.
My priorities in running are : 1. No injury 2. Enjoy it 3. Improvement
Couldn't agree more.
And after 2 or 3 years of running with this in mind, now around 15-20mpw (3-4 times a week), I can do a 1:50 half marathon. L_Master will probably say it's slow as hell or "not fun", but I don't care.
...
Not sure why you putting words in my mouth. How could I possibly say it's "not fun". I'm not you. This comment really makes no sense.
I think were you might not have understood (or I failed to make clear) is what I mean by it being not fun is that for many people if they try to run a half marathon/marathon on very low mileage they don't have adequate preparation and fitness. Couple this with a tendency to go out to hard and they find the race to be extremely challenging and brutal, maybe even a grind to finish and don't enjoy it at all. There is nothing "not fun" about running a 1:30, 2:00, or 2:30+ half marathon. What is often "not fun" is coming into a race extremely under-prepared and having to drag yourself to the finish.
Sounds like you have your own recipe figured out which is awesome!
No need to run 6 times a week, 30-50 mpw or more.
I am not sure what the context is for this. [I think] it's that you don't need that much mileage to run a half marathon.
If it is, that is a very ignorant statement. What works for you does not work for everyone and it is foolish to assume it does. Some people can run a half marathon of zero mpw just by playing some sports. Some can probably even do it off the couch. Other's absoutely NEED that kind of mileage to finish. I have a friend who is a prime example. It took him literally 4 tries to complete his first half marathon. The first three times he tried with 3-4 month build ups with 20-35 mpw. Each time he found the race too much. Finally he bumped his mileage up to 55 carefully over the course of 6 months and was able to finish, and with a respectable time of 1:33.
The reason I recommend 30-50 mpw is that running that mileage is generally enough to make it unlikely you'll have a crappy race experience and/or injury. You ARE more likely to get injured or have a crappy race running 10 mpw than you are running 40 mpw. That doesn't mean you can't, or even necessarily that it's stupid/bad/wrong to run a race like that off a low weekly mileage, but most newer runners aren't well enough in touch with themselves to know if they can or not.
Even if such a training is probably a very good way to improve performance a lot. It's a choice, not an obligation.
Absolutely. No one is saying you have to train at that level. It's absolutely and unequivocally a personal choice. It's just my opinion that for most people trying to run a half, let alone a full marathon, on mileage lower than that is asking for a bad experience.
PS : I forgot to say I have a friend running halfmarathons in 1:25, training less than 35mpw, 4 times a week.
Not sure why you mentioned this. It's not really that surprising. It's great that he runs pretty darn well off that training, and obviously he would get much better if he ran more.
I actually know someone who ran 1:19 off about 20 mpw and some soccer/basketball here and there. It was pretty much this that convinced him that he had talent and to train more seriously. He has since improved to 15 mid 5k, 32's for 10k, and probably is in the 1:10-1:13 range for the half now.
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I have a few reactions to what I'm reading in this thread. Everyone's approach to running is different and that's o.k. However, personally, I would try not to think about a training regimen purely in terms of miles per week (serious runners already know this probably). Miles per week is useful as a limiting factor--i.e. it gives you some guidance to avoid repetitive stress injuries. It isn't really useful beyond that.
I put running workouts in three categories: base, speed, recovery. Base running is about building up aerobic capacity without stressing muscles. It should be fun and relaxed. I usually measure it in terms of time. For example, "my first week of base running starting from zero I will try to run 30 minutes per day because after 30 my body is stressed. Next week I will move up to 35 minutes if I feel good. I will continue this for 4-6 weeks until I have a good base."
Speed workouts should be oriented around (a) the race distance you want to run and (b) your target pace for that distance. Think of it like weight training. You want to practice lifting something unusually heavy for a short amount of time in order to increase your lifting capacity over time. If people want to post speed workouts into this thread I will try to check in on it and give feedback.
Recovery is easy--just tell youself to go out and run at about 75% of your race pace for a longer period of time than it takes you to complete your race (this rule of thumb obviously does not apply to extreme distance running like marathons). So if I'm trying to race in the 8k-10k distance and I finish those in a 30-40 minute area, then 45 minutes at 75% is a good recovery day. Base running and recovery running are closely related, except it's okay to feel like you're pushing yourself more in terms of building base because you're trying to increase capacity. Recovery running is about maintaining capacity, although you should slowly increase it over time
Generally agree with most of what you have written here but i'll touch on a few things.
- Obviously you don't think a training regimen in terms of mileage per week. Nor is mileage per week the end all be all of training. It IS important though. Your never going to be a great 5K runner on 30 or 40mpw, and probably not on 70 mpw. You'll never develop the aerobic base and fitness needed to be as good as you can if you only run something like 30-40mpw. Weekly mileage is useful because it's an indicator of overall global volume and how much your training. For a good runner 40mpw might be 4-5 hrs a week...which is nowhere near enough to reach your potential. Up to (pretty high) reasonable limits more running is a crucial ingredient to getting faster.
I just tend to talk about this alot because many of the people in the thread looking for advice are newer runners and by and large the best thing they can do for their running is to flat out run more.
- The recovery pace you suggest could possibly be even slower. 8:00 pace for a 30 min 8k'er or low 18 5k'er certainly is easy; but I'm not sure I would call it recovery. 60-75% of anerobic threshold (roughly 10 mile race pace) is closer to true recovery.
I personally feel this holds true even at extreme distances. My first (&only) marathon my training runs topped out at about 19 miles. During the race my body fell apart at mile 22, even though I was working from a "base" of over ten years of regular & competitive running.
What sort of mileage were you running in your marathon build-up, what pace were you targeting, what splits did you run and what sorts of key workouts were you doing?
Just curious because this is pretty common occurrence for people trying to race a marathon (happens to elites fairly regularly even) and often has identifiable causes.
A word about injuries. This is where limiting your weekly distance matters. Repetitive stress injuries like IT band tendinitis, shin splints and plantar fascitis build up over time before suddenly manifesting themselves and then take months to go away. So just because you CAN run more mileage and aren't feeling bad NOW doesn't mean you won't pay for it LATER. A rule of thumb I have always been told is for someone at zero 20-25 miles per week is a good start and then increase 5 miles per week per year of running.
5 mpw per year? That is incredibly conservative. That means it would take 20 years to reach a solid 100mpw and like 10-15 to get to 70mpw! For most runners 10-20 mpw increase per year is smart and reasonable if you listen well to your body. Maybe even faster to get to 30-40 mpw.
More importantly it's usually not mileage that causes injuries. It's usually too much, too soon (i.e massive jumps in mileage ESPECIALLY is they are associated with increases or even "no decrease" of intensity). Too much speed-work relative to global volume really seems to be the most common cause of injuries.
Lastly: STRETCH STRETCH STRETCH STRETCH EVERY DAY EVERY WORKOUT BEFORE AND AFTER. This is the best way to avoid injury.
This is actually a really hotely debated topic. Most of the most recent findings are strongly suggesting that static stretching (ESPECIALLY on muscles that aren't warmed up) has negative effects. There aren't final results but most of the data coming in right now really does suggest that classic stretching is not helpful and possibly even harmful.
Dynamic exercises to increase range of motion and promote good running mechanics seem to be the way to go.
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@L_Master:
So first off I agree with your entire prior post about half-marathoning and what it takes to run the race well.
Stretching: I agree warming up before stretching is important and stretching cold muscles has been known to be a bad idea for years. You're correct there is a debate about the efficacy of even proper stretching. However I think that debate has mostly focused on the impact on performance for elite runners, not so much on avoidance of injury for casual runners, although I am aware that some people now take the position that it is unhelpful.
Personally I recommend stretching. I do think it has helped improve my flexibility and avoid injury over 20+ years of running. Maybe I just had too many coaches yelling at me about it for too many years. If people want to educate themselves on an alternative that is great. However the worst thing is not to think about injury avoidance and just go out and run every day and then find yourself laid up. A lot of casual runners are jammed for time and the first thing they skimp on is injury avoidance, when it fact it should be the last thing they skimp on. I agree good mechanics matter and people should work on their mechanics with someone knowledgeable. But realistically most people are not going to do that and I think they can improve their chances of avoiding injury quite a bit by just warming up and stretching a little.
Increasing weekly mileage: Perhaps increasing 5 miles per week per year (from a starting point of 25) is conservative but that is what I've been told by some fairly knowledgeable coaches and I would recommend it as a rule of thumb for the first several years of running. If you can get up to 50 per week I'm not going to presume to tell you how fast you can go 100. But 50 per week is a big number and new runners should not try to go there in a couple of years. I have personally known too many people who picked up running late in life and took on too much mileage too fast and wound up with very serious repetitive stress injuries that in some cases had permanent effects. Why take risks? If we're even having this conversation then running is a hobby, not a vocation.
I'm not going to re-live my marathon training...it's way in the past. But thanks for asking.
I don't want anyone to have the misconception that I am some terrific runner or something. But I have had the benefit of something that a lot of people haven't, which is coaching, and if I can pass some of that along perhaps it will help.
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What are your thoughts about speed on aerobic base runs? I just stepped up my pace a little on these 50-70 minute runs and average them at 7:30/mile pace. It feels sooo good, its easy and you feel invincible cause its going forward quite a bit but at the same time you could literally run forever at this pace.
There is some literature saying 'do your aerobic runs very easy around 7:45-8 mile pace' (related to my current PRs) but i think this is way too scientific. There was a time without Heart Rate Monitors and GPS watches where you ran just by feeling. And if you dont breath hard at all, why should you stop yourself? On the other hand your body needs to adapt to a higher speed. If a 15min 5k guy ran 7:45/mile pace for every aerobic run and suddenly hammers in his 3minute/km workouts im pretty sure he gets injured very soon. If not in training than at a 5k or 10k race just because the muscles didnt adapt to such a high speed.
I think modern people want to plan everything perfect, they wana do the perfect training and demand for Heart Rate Monitors, demand for super cool blinking GPS watches with 1000 functions, they only wear shoes with super cool cushion. But thats not running at all. There might be different opinions on that and ofcourse there can be benefit in Heart Rate Monitors and stuff at a certrain level, but for the vast majority of us non professional runners i think it would be better to focus on our body and feet. There is no big secret in running, just listen to your body and not to the manual of your brand new Nike Sportswatch+. Phew...got too emotional on this
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 09 2012 21:11 Occultus wrote:What are your thoughts about speed on aerobic base runs? I just stepped up my pace a little on these 50-70 minute runs and average them at 7:30/mile pace. It feels sooo good, its easy and you feel invincible cause its going forward quite a bit but at the same time you could literally run forever at this pace. There is some literature saying 'do your aerobic runs very easy around 7:45-8 mile pace' (related to my current PRs) but i think this is way too scientific. There was a time without Heart Rate Monitors and GPS watches where you ran just by feeling. And if you dont breath hard at all, why should you stop yourself? On the other hand your body needs to adapt to a higher speed. If a 15min 5k guy ran 7:45/mile pace for every aerobic run and suddenly hammers in his 3minute/km workouts im pretty sure he gets injured very soon. If not in training than at a 5k or 10k race just because the muscles didnt adapt to such a high speed. I think modern people want to plan everything perfect, they wana do the perfect training and demand for Heart Rate Monitors, demand for super cool blinking GPS watches with 1000 functions, they only wear shoes with super cool cushion. But thats not running at all. There might be different opinions on that and ofcourse there can be benefit in Heart Rate Monitors and stuff at a certrain level, but for the vast majority of us non professional runners i think it would be better to focus on our body and feet. There is no big secret in running, just listen to your body and not to the manual of your brand new Nike Sportswatch+. Phew...got too emotional on this
I like these thoughts very much I have also thought about how some people are way to limited to their various equipment and scientific stats. I feel like you should have a well organized schedule that both fits your capazity, goals and is an overall well-built schedule. But unless you are at a reeaally high level with a personal trainer then i dont think you should limit your workouts just because some paper says so. Though it is important as a runner to know when to rest i think you should use your mindset, if you have it, to push your workout a little harder when you feel like you're ready.
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On April 09 2012 21:11 Occultus wrote: What are your thoughts about speed on aerobic base runs? I just stepped up my pace a little on these 50-70 minute runs and average them at 7:30/mile pace. It feels sooo good, its easy and you feel invincible cause its going forward quite a bit but at the same time you could literally run forever at this pace.
To quote Weldon Johnson:
The best policy on most regular easy runs is to start extremely slowly (literally at walking speed) and allow your breathing pattern and heart rate to stabilize before attempting to increase the pace any. Never struggle during an easy run. It's probably best that you do not time your easy runs, as timing every run usually leads to racing against previous efforts, which can be ruinous. If you feel awesome, it's fine to go fairly fast and count that workout as a "tempo" run, but by no means should you force the pace. The usual idea is to feel like you are storing up energy for the next day's run. If you get fatigued from a regular easy run, it should be from the length of the run (or from a series of fairly high mileage days), not from the pace.
About half of your easy runs should be done on a soft surface - safe, smooth grass or dirt trails. If you cannot find suitable courses (with no uneven grass or ruts or potholes), at least try to run a portion of each easy run on a soft surface. Perhaps do a few loops of a grass field in the middle of a run, or stay on the soft shoulder of a road rather than run on hard surfaces all the time.
I pretty much couldn't agree more with the above. Idon't think you should ever really be concerned about pace on general aerobic runs. Some days you might cruise at 7:15 pace and feel good, and on others you might need 7:50 pace for it to feel easy. Just keep the runs easy. The benefit of running at 7:20 pace vs 7:30 vs 7:45 is fractional at best. he risks are obviously much higher, as you can make it extremely hard for yourself to recover and end up not benefiting from your workouts or even regressing.Pay attention to your body, run at an easy pace, and then maybe check your watch at the very end to note what pace you ran.
This definitely doesn't mean that all your runs should be easy, even during base, but for general aerobic runs there isn't much to be gained by running them a few seconds faster. What you should do though, in my opinion, is a reasonable number of progression runs. I'll just quote JK here because he sums them up so well:
"Having run easy on the out leg, with a few gentle accelerations as the turnaround point approached, I'd now do what I called 'opening up the throttle.' I'd gently and persistently float up into what I might now call my 'maximum aerobic pace' but had no words for back then. Sometimes, realizing that I was pushing just a little too hard, I'd back off the throttle just a hair, let my breath settle - and, as often as not, suddenly feel a little 'release,' a deep bubble of relaxation."
This quote embodies about 90% of "threshold" training in a nutshell. The idea is to start easy, with no set notion of running hard or fast, and let the pace come to you. You can have it in the back of your mind that if the magic is summoned, you'll go with it. But you don't force it to happen if it's not there.
Progression runs should not normally be miserable experiences in which you punish yourself in an attempt to develop your toughness. With an occasional exception, the time you accumulate prior to the point of struggling contributes at least as much to aerobic development as does the time you fight on after beginning to labor.
A "secret" to effective progression runs is to start slower than you would normally think would be of any benefit. This means operating at a walking pace for the first few minutes. Let the easy ambling slowly warm up every physical system in an impromptu fashion. While the pace should very gradually get a little faster, there should not be much of a definable point of effort increase between the walking speed at the start and the high-end aerobic pace in the "tempo" portion of the run. Of course, breathing will be stronger and perceived effort will be higher when running faster, but none of it should be labored, and there should not be a specific place to which you can point and say, "There was where I really noticed the conscious increase in effort." The real trick is to stay slow longer than you think is necessary. Each stage of pace increase should almost have you feeling antsy to progress to the next because it feels as though you've waited too long to start going faster.
"When you follow your bliss, doors will open where you would not have thought there would be doors; and where there wouldn't be a door for anyone else." - Joseph Campbell
The feeling you should get is basically the same as one of those planned easy runs that somehow spontaneously morphs into a notably fast, unforgettable high because you have no plans to push and you don't rush into a faster pace. The magic just seems to appear at some point in the run. Ideally, that's what you're after on a progression run. You have to have some baseline fitness to get this feeling, and that might mean spending some time in the hurt box on an occasional run until you are fit, but threshold running should for the most part be enjoyable. It's euphoric to feel simultaneously relaxed and invincible. Holding onto this euphoria at the fastest possible pace, not wanting the run to end, is more beneficial (and certainly more enjoyable) than fighting against your body in a "no pain, no gain" fashion.
The fast, steady, "high-end" pace of a progression run is the principal active ingredient in the outing. But it is also fine to occasionally go ahead and "release the hounds" as I call it - hammering it for a few minutes at the end - if it feels right. If you do this correctly, you'll be absolutely flying and well above (faster than) your "threshold," but you won't be spending enough time at this effort intensity to show all your cards as you would in a race. If you are currently in shape to run 5,000m in 15:00, for example, you can start a progression run at 10:00 per mile and be at 8:30 pace after 7-10 minutes, 7:00 pace after 15-20 minutes, and so on until you're cruising along at your high-end pace (circa 5:20 per mile) by the time you're 35-40 minutes into the run. Keep it there on cruise control for another 15-25 minutes (as long as you are not straining), then smoothly tighten the screws for a final few minutes, squeezing the velocity down to 2-mile race pace or faster for the last 30-60 seconds. While this finish feels hard (and can be brutal if you unwisely force the pace), the fast but steady portion of the run should not be any trouble. Strong, purposeful and aerobically challenging, yes. Labored, no.
Try it that way. Let it start easy and stay easy until it feels right to pick it up. Do not pick it up all of a sudden, but make a minor increase and let breathing, heart rate, coordination of movement, et cetera all perceptually stabilize before smoothly and gently flowing into another pace pickup. The goal is to continue this process until you lock into the fastest pace that feels strong, smooth and controlled, one that will relax and train a runner (you) but kill a jogger (someone a few seconds per mile slower than you!). Hold that pace until you sense it is about to require some laboring, then either stop there or (if you are in an "I'm running to the barn" mood) gradually press the pedal toward the floor for about three minutes, finishing in a kick that leaves you not wiped out, but feeling so energized that you could conquer the world!
This obviously describes an ideal progression run. These efforts can derail just as often as they flow hitch-free. You might encounter some wind or hills or turns that break the magic spell, or you might get overeager or just suddenly hit a bad patch and run out of the zone for no apparent reason. Most of the time, rather than the wheels coming totally off, some pace or effort adjustments can get you back in the groove if you feel it slipping away from you. The perfect run, in which you don't need to make even the most minor mid-course corrections, is rare. But by becoming more and more sensitive to your body's feedback signals, you can learn to perceive when those minor regulations are needed even before a bad patch arrives, thereby avoiding strain and preserving the desired steady state of effort.
Frequency of high-end running
There is a point at which you optimally build fitness; if you go beyond that point very often, you begin giving some of it away. Your ideal frequency of threshold running (as well as your ideal mileage) simply depends on how often you can do it comfortably without needing a very slow recovery day (or series of recovery days). But it should also be regulated according to a few general rules:
1) Your age / running experience
2) Time of year (base training or competitive season)
3) Your long-term goals or lack thereof (also influenced by age)
Trial and error indicates that actually hitting that high-end pace more than three times per week will expedite your fitness at a small cost to long-term development (this is also dependent upon how much higher-intensity work is being done concurrently). The take-home message in this is that if you are a newcomer to the sport or if you are younger than your prime racing years (25-35 years old for most long distance runners), you will be better served (at least from a statistical standpoint - obviously not everyone responds in exactly the same manner) by including more easy running in your base training regimen. If you are an older, experienced runner who is in (or past) your prime, you may be better served by running at least a portion of your runs near your maximum steady state more often (4-6 times per week). If you are a high school or college runner who wants high school or college glory but doesn't plan to go a whole lot farther in the sport after those years, you will also probably be better off touching on your high-end pace four or more days per week during a base stage, as long as you have done enough preparatory running to be ready for it.
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On the other hand your body needs to adapt to a higher speed. If a 15min 5k guy ran 7:45/mile pace for every aerobic run and suddenly hammers in his 3minute/km workouts im pretty sure he gets injured very soon.
Eh, different strokes for different folks as they say. Wejo for example (28:06 10ker) was known for doing the vast majority of his mileage at an absolutely crawling pace of 8:00 per mile. That's SLOW AS HELL for someone who can crank out 6 consecutive 4:30 miles. It worked great for him though.
Other people find they lose touch with their coordination or get lazy with their stride if they run that slow all the time. What works for one guy can be very uncomfortable for the next.
EDIT: Double Post. TT EDIT2: Can still respond here I guess though.
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Yeah Wejo had extremely high mileage, so he had to add slow miles. But there are different types of runners and you have to figure it out by yourself what type you are.
Look at Arne Gabius (was in indoor 3000m final and ran 7:38 earlier this season) switched his training regimen and paced up his easy runs from ~4:00-4:30/km (he didnt care about speed) to 3:30 and his times exploded after 6 years of stagnation. But he only averages 100mpw. But again, you cant copy a champions plan, you have to find out whats works for you.
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On April 10 2012 01:07 Occultus wrote: Yeah Wejo had extremely high mileage, so he had to add slow miles. But there are different types of runners and you have to figure it out by yourself what type you are.
Look at Arne Gabius (was in indoor 3000m final and ran 7:38 earlier this season) switched his training regimen and paced up his easy runs from ~4:00-4:30/km (he didnt care about speed) to 3:30 and his times exploded after 6 years of stagnation. But he only averages 100mpw. But again, you cant copy a champions plan, you have to find out whats works for you.
Very, very true. Even trying to take a workout of a particular great runner, converting the paces, and generalizing to yourself can backfire.
A good example would be Hicham's workout of 10x400m in 53-54s w/30 second recovery. That's FASTER than mile pace with some incredibly short recoveries. It's unlikely a 5:00 miler could do 10x400 in 71-73 with that recovery. Hicham's body and recovery allowed him to do insane workouts like these, and are something that an ordinary Joe doesn't have a chance at. Elite's are elite for a reason, and sometimes it's because they can handle workouts that sound fucking crazy to us normal mortals even if we extrapolate to our own paces.
Another interesting example in lines with what you said about Gabius is Mo Farah. Fairly recently (within last year or two) Salazar had him pick up easy run pace from a super slow 6:45 and bring it down closer to 5:45. I'm not sure if he had Farah do this before, during, or after his spectacular 11' season but it certainly has been interesting watching his, and almost more crazily Galen's, progression.
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L_Master, wanna race to 17:30? Whoever of us does it first!
Guess were around the same shape right now.
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On April 11 2012 05:35 Occultus wrote: L_Master, wanna race to 17:30? Whoever of us does it first!
Guess were around the same shape right now.
Sure...but I'm focusing on the mile this Spring so I don't know how many chances I'll get to race 5k until mid-summer. So I guess you get the chance to nip it earlier if you can get in shape fast enough. ^^
I've got a 5K this weekend but I don't expect any sort of good time as it has about 400 feet of uphill and 400 feet of downhill, which is really, really, damn hilly.
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My next race is a 3k in the first week of may, going to be my first 3k ever! 10:15 would be cool, 9:59 is only a dream :D Hilly races are good for mentality, im lacking some hard and hilly xc events from winter. Only did 2 and i really have this mental problem that i cant push myself for the last 600 metres.
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2nd time running in 3 years now, did 5km in 30 mins and it feels really good. Dont know why i stopped running t.t
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