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**TeamLiquid now has a group on what I consider to be the best GPS/logging site out there: Strava. You can join the group here: http://www.strava.com/clubs/Teamliquid**
A thread for all my fellow TL'ers who run. A place to discuss goals, training, racing, motivation; anything related to running. Should be a little easier now that everything won't get lost in all the traffic of one mega-thread.
Useful/Good Articles/Training Concepts
- Beginner/Starting Running
+ Show Spoiler +For those new to running their are a few common mistakes that many people make. The first is just plain doing too much, too soon. A general guideline reference is to increase mileage about 10% per week, with every 3/4 week being a cutback week of maybe 50-75% of the distance you just achieved. Obviously some people can increase much faster than this, and others will get an injury even following these guidelines. For people new to running its safe to add a day per week until your running 6/7 days a week, stay at the previous weeks number of days if that week felt particularly demanding. The other common mistake is running too hard. Perhaps because of PE/sports/etc. their is this mentality of "no pain, no gain" when running. This is wrong. Especially for beginner the key is adjusting to running and finding some enjoyment out of it. This probably won't happen if your hammering every run at 5K pace - 10 seconds. If you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) your running WAY to hard. To give some basic guidelines if you can RACE a mile in: 5:00 - Normal running @ 7:00-7:45 pace/mile 5:30 - Normal running @ 7:30-8:45 pace/mile 6:00 - Normal running @ 8:15-9:00 pace/mile 6:30 - Normal running @ 9:00-9:45 pace/mile 7:00 - Normal running @ 9:30-10:15 pace/mile 7:30 - Normal running @ 10:15-11:00 pace/mile 8:00 - Normal running @ 11:00-11:45 pace/mile 8:30 - Normal running @ 11:30-12:15 pace/mile 9:00 - Normal running @ 12:15-13:00 pace/mile 10:00 - Normal running @ 13:30-14:15 pace/mile 12:00 - Normal running @ 16:00-17:00 pace/mile For those totally new to running that have been sedentary/non-athletic most their life here is one of the best introductions to running out there: Couch to 5K For those that have maintained a minimal level of activity beyond being sedentary its reasonable to jump in at 3-4 days a week of 3-4 miles. Progressing by adding a day per week until you reach 6 or 7 days per week. Mileage can be increased from there.
- Injuries:
+ Show Spoiler +General recommendation for most injuries is if the pain lessens, and perhaps if its mild and doesn't intensify you can continue to run on it. If the pain increases as you run, definitely stop. Nothing like turning a mild case of achilles tendinitis into a long term case of prolonged achilles tendinosis. You really have to listen to your body on these though. For the non-competitive runner running for fitness, its probably wise to just play it safe and take a a day or two off at any hints of injury. If your training competitively or for an important event then you really just need to try to listen to and judge the injury. Obvious training with anything other than routine soreness runs the risk of turning something minor into something serious, however, if you break training for every possible suggestion of injury you probably won't put together very good blocks of training. Great general listing of possible running injuries, descriptions, and treatments: The Fix: Primer for Running Injuries Not gospel obviously, but can help give you an idea of what may be going on the necessary PT to prevent recurrences.
- Glossary of Running Terms:
+ Show Spoiler +Racing Flat/Flat - Very lightweight shoes designed for long distance racing Trainer - Standard, heavier, and generally more supportive shoe used primarily for training due to wearing out less frequently than thinner racing flats
Easy Run - light run for general aerobic development; usually can converse easily with a partner, breathing rhythm usually around 2/2-3/3. Typically 60-75% of max heart rate. Marathon Pace/M-Pace/Aerobic Threshold Pace - usually fastest aerobic pace, obviously pace at which you could run for a marathon. Approx 40-60 second slower than 5K race pace Tempo/T-Pace Run - A common term that refers to several different run types. Tempo's typically have three popular durations, 20-30 min, 40-60 min, and extended tempos of 60-80 min. Correct pacing is around 5K+20-25 seconds per mile for short ones, 5K+35-40 seconds per mile for the medium, and 5K+50-60 seconds per mile for the longer ones. Reps - Fast track intervals @ around mile race pace w/recovery time twice that of repeat (400m in 75 seconds = 150 second slow jog recovery). Used to build economy at speed and make fast paces seem easier Intervals/V02 Max Interval - Longer repeats at slower pace with less recovery. Usually 1:1 recovery/repeat at around 3K-5K race pace (1200m in 3:30 w/3:30 jog recovery). Long Run - run longer than typical for YOUR mileage. Usually around 20% of weekly mileage (aka runner running 60mpw might run around 11-13 miles for a long run) Fartlek - Swedish for "speed play". A run that can be pretty much whatever a runner wants. Can involve just picking random targets and running as hard as desired toward them and then recovery for however long you want, or can be structured as in 2 min "ON", 2 min "OFF". Strides - Short pickups of about 50-100m done anywhere from 400m-1600m race pace. Serve to "stay in touch" with speed and maintain neuromuscular coordination for fast paces. NOT meant to be hard.
Kick - runners strong finish to the end of a race; crucial to winning championship races which are generally slower and more tactical in nature Tactial Race - typically slower pace, refers to a race in which different runners try to force the race to their strengths. Ex: a super fast runner might want to wait till 100m to go before kicking hard for home, while the slower, but stronger runner might really pick up the pace with 400m+ to go and try to "run the kick out of" the faster runner. Move - An increase in speed to either pass runners, obtain position, or make a move for the win. It's said you get one move in the 800m, 2 in the 1500m, and 3 in the 5000m/10000m Surge - Increase in pace of the race by a runner Stagger - difference in starting places to account for varying radius of the curves in races that are fixed lane or partially fixed lane. Turnover - basically a runners stride, turnover essentially referring to the length and rate of stride Cadence - Steps per minute Mileage - miles run, usually given as a weekly value MPW, mpw - miles per week Raw Speed - Most common measure is an athletes 200m time Speed - Generally refers to top end gear, but for distance runners is often cited as 400m speed. Ex: A world class 800m runner likely has 45-47 second speed V02 Max - measure of maximum oxygen uptake vV02 max - Velocity at V02 Max, lowest speed at which an athlete is at maximum oxygen consumption. Usually occurs between 3K and 5K pace Anaerobic Threshold - inflection point on the lactic acid accumulation curve, at which point blood levels of lacate increase significantly faster. Usually around high end tempo pace, a little slower than 10K pace. Bonk - usually applies to marathon, occurs when a runner goes out to hard and deplets glycogen too soon resulting in a massive increase in speed and major pace drop off Elite - top level runner LSD - long, slow distance Negative Split - last half of race faster than first Overpronate - Higher than normal amount of inward roll of the foot Heelstrike - generally undesirable stride in which the foot lands forward of center of gravity resulting in a braking effect and extra stress Splits - Times at specific distances. Ex: in a 5K might have splits read every K, in a mile splits might be read every 400m World Best - best time for an event without official world records, or a non-ratified world record. Ex: marathon world record is 2:03:59, world best is 2:03:02 World Lead - best time run for an event in that calendar year NR - National Record
- Running Form:
+ Show Spoiler + **All credit for this goes to Airblade Orange. **
Head
Your head and neck should look as if you were standing still as someone was measuring your height and you want to squeeze in every extra millimeter possible. Your head should be up tall and your eyes should be looking straight ahead. It helps to focus on an object in the near distance that you are aiming for. If you are racing stare at the back of a runner a little ahead of you. Do not stare at the ground because it will likely mess up the form of your midsection.
Arms
While you are swinging your arms visualize there is a vertical line in the middle of your chest. Do not cross any part of either arm over to the other side. Also make sure your arms are not swinging too far to the outside on the other side of your body. Keep your arms swinging between your imaginary vertical chest line and your shoulder. Your right arm should be between your right shoulder and the vertical chest line and your left arm should be between your left shoulder and the chest line.
Keep your elbows bent at about 45 degrees. Your elbows should not be doing much bending or straightening as you are running; keep them at close to 45 degrees the whole time.
Maintain stable wrists throughout your movements. Do not bend them in any way.
Keep your hands in a loose fist. If they are too tight you will be using unnecessary energy and if they are too lose you will look like a not as cool T-1000. Maybe if you're a sprinter you can do the T-1000 with your hands completely straight, but not as a distance runner. I like to keep my thumbs on the top and outside of my pointer finger rather than wrapping around a fist. Your thumb will be straight and pointing away from you if you do it this way. Doing it like this helps me focus on keeping a loose hand and straight wrist.
Chest/Back
Your chest should be just as it would be if you were standing still, straight, and tall. Your back will be straight as well. If you find that you are leaning forward, make sure you are looking ahead of you rather than below you. Also, you may have weak abdominal muscles that prevent you from running up straight and tall. I ran like this for the first couple of years when I started because I had no abs.
Hips
Keep your hips underneath you and forward you as if you're banging a hot girl and you're about to ejaculate. Practice this in front of a mirror without a shirt when nobody else is around or someone you are trying to impress IS around. Keeping your hips forward will help your body drive forward.
Legs
This is where most runners tend to need the most work. You should be hitting about 3 strides per second when you are running at a moderately fast to fast pace. This means that your feet are striking the ground at a rate of 3 steps per second. This is the most efficient way to run for distance runners but is difficult and probably not worth doing if you're not running fast (relative to your own ability). But the next time you are running faster, whether it's a tempo run, strides, or whatever, try this out. Count how many steps you take in 10 seconds. How close is it to 30? You probably need to be taking more and shorter steps.
Pick up your feet as soon as they hit the ground. It sounds obvious but really make an effort to think about this as you are running. The longer your feet stay on the ground the more momentum you are losing. Keep them legs moving fast and forward. Try running in place with this principle in mind.
Pick up your feet higher than where you perceive your knee to be. While some people (usually old people) prefer the marathon shuffle, keeping your legs moving in a more circular manner, you can increase your efficiency as long as you use all of these leg tips together. Just go watch some videos of elite distance runners to get a visual or this or anything else being described. Most elites have excellent form, specifically in the beginning of races before they get too tired. This is another technique that is difficult to do unless you are running fast. But when you are running fast this will make you fast AND smooth.
This last tip can be debated but I'll lay it down anyway. Strike the ground with your mid foot. Heel striking is very common and the normal way most people run when they slip on running shoes. This is interesting because if you run barefoot you will be mid foot striking. Try it out. I am a believer in the benefits of barefoot and minimalist shoe training, but that is a topic for another time. I still think a mid foot strike to be the best bet here. Not only is it the most natural way for humans to run but it also keeps your feet on the ground for less time. Remember that you are fighting inertia and need to keep your feet off the ground and your legs driving forward.
American<->SI Pace Conversion Tool (credit: Malinor) + Show Spoiler +
List of TLer Training Logs: + Show Spoiler +
TL Members 2014 Goals/Progress: Feel free to post up your goals for upcoming year, season, target race, etc. I will keep them updated.
+ Show Spoiler +- L_Master:
1) Health, seems to be healing slowly but don't rush back to running or to decent mileage 2)Nutrition - less soda (aiming to reduce down to 2 cans per wk or less), less % of cals from junk food 3)Work on speed/strength - NOP stength/prehab routine, plyometrics/oly. lift work/hill sprints 4) Time Goals
Spring - Sub 5:00 mile, sub 18 5k Fall - Sub 17 5K; and/or possibility to run marathon if I do make a full return to running
- haffy: Enter first race, raise mileage to 40mpw, commit to some more serious training
- LagLovah: Stay consistent and run a 10k and a couple half marathons
- YPang
1) injury free 2) This is more of a generic goal, but stop wasting time, just study and train. If i'm not studying I should be training, and all breaks that i get are pre-planned, so no browsing TL or facebook unless it was a break specifically given. 3) wake up at 5 am everyday, and hit the sacks at around 9:30 or 10pm everyday. 4) finally, be extremely content with whatever race results i get, if the above 3 goals are achieved. 5) Time goals: swim @ 1:30/100yards for 1500m ~ 24min swim Ride @ 23mph for 24miles ~ 1hr 5mins run @ 6min/mile ~ 37min 10k sub 2:10 this year as PR for olympic distance.
- Malinor
1. Get below 95kg 2. Run 5k in under 23 Minutes 3. Run 2.000 Km in total
- LuckyFool
sub 20 min 5k sub 5:30 mile
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*Added a section to the OP for training logs. If you log your running online in an accessible form feel free to post your log up and I will add them to the OP.*
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2014 Goals for me
1) Health, seems to be healing slowly but don't rush back to running or to decent mileage 2)Nutrition - less soda (aiming to reduce down to 2 cans per wk or less), less % of cals from junk food 3)Work on speed/strength - NOP stength/prehab routine, plyometrics/oly. lift work/hill sprints 4) Time Goals
Spring - Sub 5:00 mile, sub 18 5k Fall - Sub 17 5K; and/or possibility to run marathon if I do make a full return to running
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No real goals for 2014 for me other than to enter my first race.
Other than that I'd like to get to 40-45 mpw before starting to attempt some serious training like tempo runs etc.
Averaging a little over 30mpw at the minute so I'm probably going to throw in a easy 3 mile on a day off to see how it feels next week.
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Other than that I'd like to get to 40-45 mpw before starting to attempt some serious training like tempo runs etc.
Unless you have only been running for a month or two...really no reason to do that. 30 mpw is more than enough to support some faster running. The other good thing to start working in are some hill sprints (6-8 sec basically all out w/several minutes recovery) and 200m repetitions at a fast pace; again plenty of recovery on those as neither are meant to be hard workouts, but rather ways to work on speed and neuromuscular coordination without being especially taxing.
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That sounds pretty fun actually. I've got a long run tomorrow morning so I'll give it a go starting Monday.
At the minute I'm just doing between 3 and 6 miles, 5 times a week and a long run on a Sunday of about 10 miles, would adding a speed training run in the middle of a week be a good start and maybe build up to two training runs a week?
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Honestly, the 200s shouldn't be that stressful. Doing them 2x a week (or even a few after an easy run) shouldn't be a big issue. The hill sprints will leave you a bit sore the first few times, and a once a week is good for now. Tempo run once per week is fine.
So if you had one hill sprint day, one tempo day that would be good, working in 200s whenever you felt good after a run. Again, the 200s shouldn't be stressful. Just fast, relaxed running. A good way to approach them would be start at mile pace and work your way down to 800 pace or a smidge faster on your last one.
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Thanks I'll give it ago. Been feeling like I haven't been progressing well recently so looking forward to trying these out.
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Been a while since I have posted in a running thread, I haven't stopped, or slowed down or anything, just no real amazing progress to report. Endurance wise I am making gains, but they aren't exactly quick. I do a couple 5ks a week, a 7-8 a 10, and a 15-20, everything feels good, I don't really get overtired or exhausted after runs, so I guess things are going well enough.
Speed wise, I guess, I never really had much of a problem, I can run at the speeds I want to run at, its more of a running them for long time periods that I struggle with.
For the year I hope to do maybe a 10k and 2-3 half marathons, I will see how things line up with work and what not I guess. There is usually a 10mile race really early in the year in my city, but I looked at the race schedule today and it wasn't posted yet, hopefully its just not finalized and not something like a cancellation. Best of luck to the other runners on TL
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Another nice workout today, 5x1k w/200 min rest, then one more 800.
Reps were (4:00, 3:55, 3:56, 3:51, 3:48, 2:42). Probably could go harder on these, without that blowout 800 could have done another rep, maybe even a few more. Might try to start at 3:50 pace and work down next time.
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Another race today!
My race results are funny, each one has been a little slower than the last but my fitness and finishing place has been better as the courses have been progressively more difficult. 3.3M race today in 22:47. Had a blast on what is definitely a true XC course; narrow single track trail with probably 500+ ft of climbing/descending. Shady spots had several inches of snow, and sunny spots were often thick mud.
Finished around a bunch of guys that run between mid 17's and high 19s. Ran a pretty good race, though I thought I was gonna fall apart after about a mile and a half as the first part of the course is generally uphill and with my limited running to begin with, and it's exclusive flatness...my legs were losing their power but when we started going to more downhill than up I was able to really hammer and run nicely the last half.
Only regret is getting outkicked by the end by some HSer, let up a little too soon and didn't do as good of a job focusing on my finishing ques as I could. Then again...the guy has PRs of 2:01/4:40 so I think he has the edge their anyway.
It's wierd how fast I've transformed, used to hate these types of courses (probably cause I was always just wanting to run quick times) but now I'm loving the variety and uniqueness they offer.
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Nice race, I'd love to be able to get close to those sort of times one day lol.
Just had my long run this morning. Went 12.5 miles in just under 2 hours. Had some pretty annoying stomach cramps come and go 2 miles in because I ate cereal before I went. Didn't actually effect my time but was pretty annoying to run through.
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On January 07 2014 12:11 L_Master wrote: Another nice workout today, 5x1k w/200 min rest, then one more 800.
200 mins, looks like a nice movie break with a nap after each 1k
my 2014 training resolutions
1) injury free 2) This is more of a generic goal, but stop wasting time, just study and train. If i'm not studying I should be training, and all breaks that i get are pre-planned, so no browsing TL or facebook unless it was a break specifically given. 3) wake up at 5 am everyday, and hit the sacks at around 9:30 or 10pm everyday. 4) finally, be extremely content with whatever race results i get, if the above 3 goals are achieved.
Also, as for training logs, mine is on a site called trainingpeaks.com.
Great site and great for recording all sorts of data, and it'll like spit out at you a graph and all those fancy stuff, but it is just not very convenient for sharing, unless it's on Facebook or twitter.
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200 mins, looks like a nice movie break with a nap after each 1k
Yea, I had been out the last few days, needed to catch back up on sleep
my 2014 training resolutions
1) injury free 2) This is more of a generic goal, but stop wasting time, just study and train. If i'm not studying I should be training, and all breaks that i get are pre-planned, so no browsing TL or facebook unless it was a break specifically given. 3) wake up at 5 am everyday, and hit the sacks at around 9:30 or 10pm everyday. 4) finally, be extremely content with whatever race results i get, if the above 3 goals are achieved.
You have injury free as a goal, though sometimes injuries can be out of our control. What specifically are you planning to do to help achieve that goal?
Also dang, that is like no sleep (at least for me ). I would be destroyed trying to follow that schedule for any length of time, as I tend to feel crappy after just a day or two of only getting 7 hours.
Oh, do you still have a primary focus on busting a sick Ironman sometime in the next couple years?
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1. Get below 95kg 2. Run 5k in under 23 Minutes 3. Run 2.000 Km in total
If some of you use Garmin Connect, please add me. I am Malinor there as well.
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1. Find the new thread (done) 2. Get my hip injury under control 3. Finish the "Hermannslauf" 31km hill race 4. 10k sub 44 5. HM sub 1:40
Training log looks terrible because I'm resting due to the injury but I'm keeping it up to date usually.
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On January 13 2014 03:05 L_Master wrote:Yea, I had been out the last few days, needed to catch back up on sleep Show nested quote +my 2014 training resolutions
1) injury free 2) This is more of a generic goal, but stop wasting time, just study and train. If i'm not studying I should be training, and all breaks that i get are pre-planned, so no browsing TL or facebook unless it was a break specifically given. 3) wake up at 5 am everyday, and hit the sacks at around 9:30 or 10pm everyday. 4) finally, be extremely content with whatever race results i get, if the above 3 goals are achieved. You have injury free as a goal, though sometimes injuries can be out of our control. What specifically are you planning to do to help achieve that goal? Also dang, that is like no sleep (at least for me ). I would be destroyed trying to follow that schedule for any length of time, as I tend to feel crappy after just a day or two of only getting 7 hours. Oh, do you still have a primary focus on busting a sick Ironman sometime in the next couple years? haha changed that goal to focus on busting a sick olympic distance split next couple of years, and then possibly moving to longer distance.
I have problem sleeping a lot, and usually don't require too much, but might be a little more lenient on the sleep schedule. Maybe sleep a little earlier, but definitely gotta wake up at 5am to get studies done without anyone bothering me, and to train.
Also as for injury prevention: I had IT band problems for 4 month! realized it was due to weak hips. Before when i ran my foot would cross over the centerline or get really close to the center line of my body, plus I also under protonate quite a bit. As a result my IT Band had to compensate for my weak hips and it started getting horribly inflammed.
After doing a few hip exercises i now run with a more neutral gait, and my foot no longer crosses over. I also go do weights 3x a week, focusing on squats dead lifts. You might think that doing those exercises will make your next run feel sluggish. But i've been following this program where it focuses on high weight and low reps.
For example, in the morning i'd do squats like
155lbs- 4-5 reps and 4 sets.
single leg squats 3 reps 20lbs on each hand, 4 sets.
..etc stuff like that.
I ran this afternoon and legs felt fresh. You'll only start to feel sluggish after doing weights is if you do 8-12 reps (from my personal experience anyways).
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On January 13 2014 05:47 Malinor wrote: 1. Get below 95kg 2. Run 5k in under 23 Minutes 3. Run 2.000 Km in total
If some of you use Garmin Connect, please add me. I am Malinor there as well.
That is some pretty respectable kilometerage, more than what I would think of as health running or basic cardio. You switchin it up from the lifting for a while?
If you don't mind my asking, how tall are you and what does your 5k pr sit at right now?
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haha changed that goal to focus on busting a sick olympic distance split next couple of years, and then possibly moving to longer distance.
Sweet stuff, and I tend to think that is a good approach! Speed at the shorter distances really does set most people up for success at the longer stuff. Roughly speaking, what are you aiming for goal wise?
But i've been following this program where it focuses on high weight and low reps.
I approve. This is getting into that rep range where you can get stronger through neuromuscular coordination without adding lots of bulk, which is ideal for endurance athletes.
Also as for injury prevention: I had IT band problems for 4 month! realized it was due to weak hips. Before when i ran my foot would cross over the centerline or get really close to the center line of my body, plus I also under protonate quite a bit. As a result my IT Band had to compensate for my weak hips and it started getting horribly inflammed.
The more I read the more I come to feel that the hips truly are at the center of it. I hear so many of runners with injury problems that do much better after they start working on their hips. Developing the hips in a running specific matter and it really seems to help many runners avoid an entire litany of injuries, as you can have problems just about anywhere if you are compensating for hip weakness/flexibility issues.
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On January 13 2014 08:17 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +haha changed that goal to focus on busting a sick olympic distance split next couple of years, and then possibly moving to longer distance. Sweet stuff, and I tend to think that is a good approach! Speed at the shorter distances really does set most people up for success at the longer stuff. Roughly speaking, what are you aiming for goal wise? Show nested quote +But i've been following this program where it focuses on high weight and low reps. I approve. This is getting into that rep range where you can get stronger through neuromuscular coordination without adding lots of bulk, which is ideal for endurance athletes. Show nested quote +Also as for injury prevention: I had IT band problems for 4 month! realized it was due to weak hips. Before when i ran my foot would cross over the centerline or get really close to the center line of my body, plus I also under protonate quite a bit. As a result my IT Band had to compensate for my weak hips and it started getting horribly inflammed. The more I read the more I come to feel that the hips truly are at the center of it. I hear so many of runners with injury problems that do much better after they start working on their hips. Developing the hips in a running specific matter and it really seems to help many runners avoid an entire litany of injuries, as you can have problems just about anywhere if you are compensating for hip weakness/flexibility issues. Trying to qualify for age group nationals in 2015 in milwaukee by first getting top 33% in my AG at regionals which is pretty easy.
In terms of time, by the end of this summer i'd like to swim @ 1:30/100yards for 1500m ~ 24min swim Ride @ 23mph for 24miles ~ 1hr 5mins run @ 6min/mile ~ 37min 10k
total hoping for sub 2:10 this year as PR for olympic distance. If i qualify for nationals next year (2015), hoping for a sub 2:05 at least and top 18 for my Age group to be eligible for team USA, in which USAT will help with some traveling expenses/registration expenses for their members, plus a kick ass race suit with the USA logo and your name on it :D
also wanna run @ 6:40/mile at boston this april too. Got a lot of work to do
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Don't your goals add up to 2:06? Or are those individual races (i.e. you want to run a standalone 36:xx, sub 65 40k tt, etc.)?
I will say if you can run 2:54:40 in Boston you can easily go sub 37 10k. Probably 36 mid or better in a standalone 10k.
Sounds like some pretty good stuff either way. Out of curiosity, how much does a decent but not top of the line road bike cost that you would use in something like triathlon or say a 40k TT? I doubt I can afford it, but it would be fun to get out there and see how I do on the bike, as I don't believe the numbers the trainers at the gym puts out for a second(easy rides @ 230-260W depending on bike, giving paces of 22-24 mph. Threshold type pace is like high 200s low 300s wattage and 25-27 mph. All of which sounds bullshit fast).
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