**TeamLiquid now has a group on what I consider to be the best GPS/logging site out there: Strava. You can join the group here: http://www.strava.com/clubs/Teamliquid**
A thread for all my fellow TL'ers who run. A place to discuss goals, training, racing, motivation; anything related to running. Should be a little easier now that everything won't get lost in all the traffic of one mega-thread.
For those new to running their are a few common mistakes that many people make. The first is just plain doing too much, too soon. A general guideline reference is to increase mileage about 10% per week, with every 3/4 week being a cutback week of maybe 50-75% of the distance you just achieved. Obviously some people can increase much faster than this, and others will get an injury even following these guidelines. For people new to running its safe to add a day per week until your running 6/7 days a week, stay at the previous weeks number of days if that week felt particularly demanding.
The other common mistake is running too hard. Perhaps because of PE/sports/etc. their is this mentality of "no pain, no gain" when running. This is wrong. Especially for beginner the key is adjusting to running and finding some enjoyment out of it. This probably won't happen if your hammering every run at 5K pace - 10 seconds. If you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) your running WAY to hard. To give some basic guidelines if you can RACE a mile in:
5:00 - Normal running @ 7:00-7:45 pace/mile 5:30 - Normal running @ 7:30-8:45 pace/mile 6:00 - Normal running @ 8:15-9:00 pace/mile 6:30 - Normal running @ 9:00-9:45 pace/mile 7:00 - Normal running @ 9:30-10:15 pace/mile 7:30 - Normal running @ 10:15-11:00 pace/mile 8:00 - Normal running @ 11:00-11:45 pace/mile 8:30 - Normal running @ 11:30-12:15 pace/mile 9:00 - Normal running @ 12:15-13:00 pace/mile 10:00 - Normal running @ 13:30-14:15 pace/mile 12:00 - Normal running @ 16:00-17:00 pace/mile
For those totally new to running that have been sedentary/non-athletic most their life here is one of the best introductions to running out there: Couch to 5K
For those that have maintained a minimal level of activity beyond being sedentary its reasonable to jump in at 3-4 days a week of 3-4 miles. Progressing by adding a day per week until you reach 6 or 7 days per week. Mileage can be increased from there.
General recommendation for most injuries is if the pain lessens, and perhaps if its mild and doesn't intensify you can continue to run on it. If the pain increases as you run, definitely stop. Nothing like turning a mild case of achilles tendinitis into a long term case of prolonged achilles tendinosis.
You really have to listen to your body on these though. For the non-competitive runner running for fitness, its probably wise to just play it safe and take a a day or two off at any hints of injury. If your training competitively or for an important event then you really just need to try to listen to and judge the injury. Obvious training with anything other than routine soreness runs the risk of turning something minor into something serious, however, if you break training for every possible suggestion of injury you probably won't put together very good blocks of training.
Racing Flat/Flat - Very lightweight shoes designed for long distance racing Trainer - Standard, heavier, and generally more supportive shoe used primarily for training due to wearing out less frequently than thinner racing flats
Easy Run - light run for general aerobic development; usually can converse easily with a partner, breathing rhythm usually around 2/2-3/3. Typically 60-75% of max heart rate. Marathon Pace/M-Pace/Aerobic Threshold Pace - usually fastest aerobic pace, obviously pace at which you could run for a marathon. Approx 40-60 second slower than 5K race pace Tempo/T-Pace Run - A common term that refers to several different run types. Tempo's typically have three popular durations, 20-30 min, 40-60 min, and extended tempos of 60-80 min. Correct pacing is around 5K+20-25 seconds per mile for short ones, 5K+35-40 seconds per mile for the medium, and 5K+50-60 seconds per mile for the longer ones. Reps - Fast track intervals @ around mile race pace w/recovery time twice that of repeat (400m in 75 seconds = 150 second slow jog recovery). Used to build economy at speed and make fast paces seem easier Intervals/V02 Max Interval - Longer repeats at slower pace with less recovery. Usually 1:1 recovery/repeat at around 3K-5K race pace (1200m in 3:30 w/3:30 jog recovery). Long Run - run longer than typical for YOUR mileage. Usually around 20% of weekly mileage (aka runner running 60mpw might run around 11-13 miles for a long run) Fartlek - Swedish for "speed play". A run that can be pretty much whatever a runner wants. Can involve just picking random targets and running as hard as desired toward them and then recovery for however long you want, or can be structured as in 2 min "ON", 2 min "OFF". Strides - Short pickups of about 50-100m done anywhere from 400m-1600m race pace. Serve to "stay in touch" with speed and maintain neuromuscular coordination for fast paces. NOT meant to be hard.
Kick - runners strong finish to the end of a race; crucial to winning championship races which are generally slower and more tactical in nature Tactial Race - typically slower pace, refers to a race in which different runners try to force the race to their strengths. Ex: a super fast runner might want to wait till 100m to go before kicking hard for home, while the slower, but stronger runner might really pick up the pace with 400m+ to go and try to "run the kick out of" the faster runner. Move - An increase in speed to either pass runners, obtain position, or make a move for the win. It's said you get one move in the 800m, 2 in the 1500m, and 3 in the 5000m/10000m Surge - Increase in pace of the race by a runner Stagger - difference in starting places to account for varying radius of the curves in races that are fixed lane or partially fixed lane. Turnover - basically a runners stride, turnover essentially referring to the length and rate of stride Cadence - Steps per minute Mileage - miles run, usually given as a weekly value MPW, mpw - miles per week Raw Speed - Most common measure is an athletes 200m time Speed - Generally refers to top end gear, but for distance runners is often cited as 400m speed. Ex: A world class 800m runner likely has 45-47 second speed V02 Max - measure of maximum oxygen uptake vV02 max - Velocity at V02 Max, lowest speed at which an athlete is at maximum oxygen consumption. Usually occurs between 3K and 5K pace Anaerobic Threshold - inflection point on the lactic acid accumulation curve, at which point blood levels of lacate increase significantly faster. Usually around high end tempo pace, a little slower than 10K pace. Bonk - usually applies to marathon, occurs when a runner goes out to hard and deplets glycogen too soon resulting in a massive increase in speed and major pace drop off Elite - top level runner LSD - long, slow distance Negative Split - last half of race faster than first Overpronate - Higher than normal amount of inward roll of the foot Heelstrike - generally undesirable stride in which the foot lands forward of center of gravity resulting in a braking effect and extra stress Splits - Times at specific distances. Ex: in a 5K might have splits read every K, in a mile splits might be read every 400m World Best - best time for an event without official world records, or a non-ratified world record. Ex: marathon world record is 2:03:59, world best is 2:03:02 World Lead - best time run for an event in that calendar year NR - National Record
Your head and neck should look as if you were standing still as someone was measuring your height and you want to squeeze in every extra millimeter possible. Your head should be up tall and your eyes should be looking straight ahead. It helps to focus on an object in the near distance that you are aiming for. If you are racing stare at the back of a runner a little ahead of you. Do not stare at the ground because it will likely mess up the form of your midsection.
Arms
While you are swinging your arms visualize there is a vertical line in the middle of your chest. Do not cross any part of either arm over to the other side. Also make sure your arms are not swinging too far to the outside on the other side of your body. Keep your arms swinging between your imaginary vertical chest line and your shoulder. Your right arm should be between your right shoulder and the vertical chest line and your left arm should be between your left shoulder and the chest line.
Keep your elbows bent at about 45 degrees. Your elbows should not be doing much bending or straightening as you are running; keep them at close to 45 degrees the whole time.
Maintain stable wrists throughout your movements. Do not bend them in any way.
Keep your hands in a loose fist. If they are too tight you will be using unnecessary energy and if they are too lose you will look like a not as cool T-1000. Maybe if you're a sprinter you can do the T-1000 with your hands completely straight, but not as a distance runner. I like to keep my thumbs on the top and outside of my pointer finger rather than wrapping around a fist. Your thumb will be straight and pointing away from you if you do it this way. Doing it like this helps me focus on keeping a loose hand and straight wrist.
Chest/Back
Your chest should be just as it would be if you were standing still, straight, and tall. Your back will be straight as well. If you find that you are leaning forward, make sure you are looking ahead of you rather than below you. Also, you may have weak abdominal muscles that prevent you from running up straight and tall. I ran like this for the first couple of years when I started because I had no abs.
Hips
Keep your hips underneath you and forward you as if you're banging a hot girl and you're about to ejaculate. Practice this in front of a mirror without a shirt when nobody else is around or someone you are trying to impress IS around. Keeping your hips forward will help your body drive forward.
Legs
This is where most runners tend to need the most work. You should be hitting about 3 strides per second when you are running at a moderately fast to fast pace. This means that your feet are striking the ground at a rate of 3 steps per second. This is the most efficient way to run for distance runners but is difficult and probably not worth doing if you're not running fast (relative to your own ability). But the next time you are running faster, whether it's a tempo run, strides, or whatever, try this out. Count how many steps you take in 10 seconds. How close is it to 30? You probably need to be taking more and shorter steps.
Pick up your feet as soon as they hit the ground. It sounds obvious but really make an effort to think about this as you are running. The longer your feet stay on the ground the more momentum you are losing. Keep them legs moving fast and forward. Try running in place with this principle in mind.
Pick up your feet higher than where you perceive your knee to be. While some people (usually old people) prefer the marathon shuffle, keeping your legs moving in a more circular manner, you can increase your efficiency as long as you use all of these leg tips together. Just go watch some videos of elite distance runners to get a visual or this or anything else being described. Most elites have excellent form, specifically in the beginning of races before they get too tired. This is another technique that is difficult to do unless you are running fast. But when you are running fast this will make you fast AND smooth.
This last tip can be debated but I'll lay it down anyway. Strike the ground with your mid foot. Heel striking is very common and the normal way most people run when they slip on running shoes. This is interesting because if you run barefoot you will be mid foot striking. Try it out. I am a believer in the benefits of barefoot and minimalist shoe training, but that is a topic for another time. I still think a mid foot strike to be the best bet here. Not only is it the most natural way for humans to run but it also keeps your feet on the ground for less time. Remember that you are fighting inertia and need to keep your feet off the ground and your legs driving forward.
American<->SI Pace Conversion Tool (credit: Malinor) + Show Spoiler +
L_Master: 1) Health, seems to be healing slowly but don't rush back to running or to decent mileage 2)Nutrition - less soda (aiming to reduce down to 2 cans per wk or less), less % of cals from junk food 3)Work on speed/strength - NOP stength/prehab routine, plyometrics/oly. lift work/hill sprints 4) Time Goals
Spring - Sub 5:00 mile, sub 18 5k Fall - Sub 17 5K; and/or possibility to run marathon if I do make a full return to running
haffy: Enter first race, raise mileage to 40mpw, commit to some more serious training
LagLovah: Stay consistent and run a 10k and a couple half marathons
YPang 1) injury free 2) This is more of a generic goal, but stop wasting time, just study and train. If i'm not studying I should be training, and all breaks that i get are pre-planned, so no browsing TL or facebook unless it was a break specifically given. 3) wake up at 5 am everyday, and hit the sacks at around 9:30 or 10pm everyday. 4) finally, be extremely content with whatever race results i get, if the above 3 goals are achieved. 5) Time goals: swim @ 1:30/100yards for 1500m ~ 24min swim Ride @ 23mph for 24miles ~ 1hr 5mins run @ 6min/mile ~ 37min 10k sub 2:10 this year as PR for olympic distance.
Malinor 1. Get below 95kg 2. Run 5k in under 23 Minutes 3. Run 2.000 Km in total
LuckyFool sub 20 min 5k sub 5:30 mile
[/QUOTE]
*Added a section to the OP for training logs. If you log your running online in an accessible form feel free to post your log up and I will add them to the OP.*
1) Health, seems to be healing slowly but don't rush back to running or to decent mileage 2)Nutrition - less soda (aiming to reduce down to 2 cans per wk or less), less % of cals from junk food 3)Work on speed/strength - NOP stength/prehab routine, plyometrics/oly. lift work/hill sprints 4) Time Goals
Spring - Sub 5:00 mile, sub 18 5k Fall - Sub 17 5K; and/or possibility to run marathon if I do make a full return to running
Other than that I'd like to get to 40-45 mpw before starting to attempt some serious training like tempo runs etc.
Unless you have only been running for a month or two...really no reason to do that. 30 mpw is more than enough to support some faster running. The other good thing to start working in are some hill sprints (6-8 sec basically all out w/several minutes recovery) and 200m repetitions at a fast pace; again plenty of recovery on those as neither are meant to be hard workouts, but rather ways to work on speed and neuromuscular coordination without being especially taxing.
That sounds pretty fun actually. I've got a long run tomorrow morning so I'll give it a go starting Monday.
At the minute I'm just doing between 3 and 6 miles, 5 times a week and a long run on a Sunday of about 10 miles, would adding a speed training run in the middle of a week be a good start and maybe build up to two training runs a week?
Honestly, the 200s shouldn't be that stressful. Doing them 2x a week (or even a few after an easy run) shouldn't be a big issue. The hill sprints will leave you a bit sore the first few times, and a once a week is good for now. Tempo run once per week is fine.
So if you had one hill sprint day, one tempo day that would be good, working in 200s whenever you felt good after a run. Again, the 200s shouldn't be stressful. Just fast, relaxed running. A good way to approach them would be start at mile pace and work your way down to 800 pace or a smidge faster on your last one.
Been a while since I have posted in a running thread, I haven't stopped, or slowed down or anything, just no real amazing progress to report. Endurance wise I am making gains, but they aren't exactly quick. I do a couple 5ks a week, a 7-8 a 10, and a 15-20, everything feels good, I don't really get overtired or exhausted after runs, so I guess things are going well enough.
Speed wise, I guess, I never really had much of a problem, I can run at the speeds I want to run at, its more of a running them for long time periods that I struggle with.
For the year I hope to do maybe a 10k and 2-3 half marathons, I will see how things line up with work and what not I guess. There is usually a 10mile race really early in the year in my city, but I looked at the race schedule today and it wasn't posted yet, hopefully its just not finalized and not something like a cancellation. Best of luck to the other runners on TL
Another nice workout today, 5x1k w/200 min rest, then one more 800.
Reps were (4:00, 3:55, 3:56, 3:51, 3:48, 2:42). Probably could go harder on these, without that blowout 800 could have done another rep, maybe even a few more. Might try to start at 3:50 pace and work down next time.
My race results are funny, each one has been a little slower than the last but my fitness and finishing place has been better as the courses have been progressively more difficult. 3.3M race today in 22:47. Had a blast on what is definitely a true XC course; narrow single track trail with probably 500+ ft of climbing/descending. Shady spots had several inches of snow, and sunny spots were often thick mud.
Finished around a bunch of guys that run between mid 17's and high 19s. Ran a pretty good race, though I thought I was gonna fall apart after about a mile and a half as the first part of the course is generally uphill and with my limited running to begin with, and it's exclusive flatness...my legs were losing their power but when we started going to more downhill than up I was able to really hammer and run nicely the last half.
Only regret is getting outkicked by the end by some HSer, let up a little too soon and didn't do as good of a job focusing on my finishing ques as I could. Then again...the guy has PRs of 2:01/4:40 so I think he has the edge their anyway.
It's wierd how fast I've transformed, used to hate these types of courses (probably cause I was always just wanting to run quick times) but now I'm loving the variety and uniqueness they offer.
Nice race, I'd love to be able to get close to those sort of times one day lol.
Just had my long run this morning. Went 12.5 miles in just under 2 hours. Had some pretty annoying stomach cramps come and go 2 miles in because I ate cereal before I went. Didn't actually effect my time but was pretty annoying to run through.
On January 07 2014 12:11 L_Master wrote: Another nice workout today, 5x1k w/200 min rest, then one more 800.
200 mins, looks like a nice movie break with a nap after each 1k
my 2014 training resolutions
1) injury free 2) This is more of a generic goal, but stop wasting time, just study and train. If i'm not studying I should be training, and all breaks that i get are pre-planned, so no browsing TL or facebook unless it was a break specifically given. 3) wake up at 5 am everyday, and hit the sacks at around 9:30 or 10pm everyday. 4) finally, be extremely content with whatever race results i get, if the above 3 goals are achieved.
Also, as for training logs, mine is on a site called trainingpeaks.com.
Great site and great for recording all sorts of data, and it'll like spit out at you a graph and all those fancy stuff, but it is just not very convenient for sharing, unless it's on Facebook or twitter.
200 mins, looks like a nice movie break with a nap after each 1k
Yea, I had been out the last few days, needed to catch back up on sleep
my 2014 training resolutions
1) injury free 2) This is more of a generic goal, but stop wasting time, just study and train. If i'm not studying I should be training, and all breaks that i get are pre-planned, so no browsing TL or facebook unless it was a break specifically given. 3) wake up at 5 am everyday, and hit the sacks at around 9:30 or 10pm everyday. 4) finally, be extremely content with whatever race results i get, if the above 3 goals are achieved.
You have injury free as a goal, though sometimes injuries can be out of our control. What specifically are you planning to do to help achieve that goal?
Also dang, that is like no sleep (at least for me ). I would be destroyed trying to follow that schedule for any length of time, as I tend to feel crappy after just a day or two of only getting 7 hours.
Oh, do you still have a primary focus on busting a sick Ironman sometime in the next couple years?
1) injury free 2) This is more of a generic goal, but stop wasting time, just study and train. If i'm not studying I should be training, and all breaks that i get are pre-planned, so no browsing TL or facebook unless it was a break specifically given. 3) wake up at 5 am everyday, and hit the sacks at around 9:30 or 10pm everyday. 4) finally, be extremely content with whatever race results i get, if the above 3 goals are achieved.
You have injury free as a goal, though sometimes injuries can be out of our control. What specifically are you planning to do to help achieve that goal?
Also dang, that is like no sleep (at least for me ). I would be destroyed trying to follow that schedule for any length of time, as I tend to feel crappy after just a day or two of only getting 7 hours.
Oh, do you still have a primary focus on busting a sick Ironman sometime in the next couple years?
haha changed that goal to focus on busting a sick olympic distance split next couple of years, and then possibly moving to longer distance.
I have problem sleeping a lot, and usually don't require too much, but might be a little more lenient on the sleep schedule. Maybe sleep a little earlier, but definitely gotta wake up at 5am to get studies done without anyone bothering me, and to train.
Also as for injury prevention: I had IT band problems for 4 month! realized it was due to weak hips. Before when i ran my foot would cross over the centerline or get really close to the center line of my body, plus I also under protonate quite a bit. As a result my IT Band had to compensate for my weak hips and it started getting horribly inflammed.
After doing a few hip exercises i now run with a more neutral gait, and my foot no longer crosses over. I also go do weights 3x a week, focusing on squats dead lifts. You might think that doing those exercises will make your next run feel sluggish. But i've been following this program where it focuses on high weight and low reps.
For example, in the morning i'd do squats like
155lbs- 4-5 reps and 4 sets.
single leg squats 3 reps 20lbs on each hand, 4 sets.
..etc stuff like that.
I ran this afternoon and legs felt fresh. You'll only start to feel sluggish after doing weights is if you do 8-12 reps (from my personal experience anyways).
On January 13 2014 05:47 Malinor wrote: 1. Get below 95kg 2. Run 5k in under 23 Minutes 3. Run 2.000 Km in total
If some of you use Garmin Connect, please add me. I am Malinor there as well.
That is some pretty respectable kilometerage, more than what I would think of as health running or basic cardio. You switchin it up from the lifting for a while?
If you don't mind my asking, how tall are you and what does your 5k pr sit at right now?
haha changed that goal to focus on busting a sick olympic distance split next couple of years, and then possibly moving to longer distance.
Sweet stuff, and I tend to think that is a good approach! Speed at the shorter distances really does set most people up for success at the longer stuff. Roughly speaking, what are you aiming for goal wise?
But i've been following this program where it focuses on high weight and low reps.
I approve. This is getting into that rep range where you can get stronger through neuromuscular coordination without adding lots of bulk, which is ideal for endurance athletes.
Also as for injury prevention: I had IT band problems for 4 month! realized it was due to weak hips. Before when i ran my foot would cross over the centerline or get really close to the center line of my body, plus I also under protonate quite a bit. As a result my IT Band had to compensate for my weak hips and it started getting horribly inflammed.
The more I read the more I come to feel that the hips truly are at the center of it. I hear so many of runners with injury problems that do much better after they start working on their hips. Developing the hips in a running specific matter and it really seems to help many runners avoid an entire litany of injuries, as you can have problems just about anywhere if you are compensating for hip weakness/flexibility issues.
haha changed that goal to focus on busting a sick olympic distance split next couple of years, and then possibly moving to longer distance.
Sweet stuff, and I tend to think that is a good approach! Speed at the shorter distances really does set most people up for success at the longer stuff. Roughly speaking, what are you aiming for goal wise?
But i've been following this program where it focuses on high weight and low reps.
I approve. This is getting into that rep range where you can get stronger through neuromuscular coordination without adding lots of bulk, which is ideal for endurance athletes.
Also as for injury prevention: I had IT band problems for 4 month! realized it was due to weak hips. Before when i ran my foot would cross over the centerline or get really close to the center line of my body, plus I also under protonate quite a bit. As a result my IT Band had to compensate for my weak hips and it started getting horribly inflammed.
The more I read the more I come to feel that the hips truly are at the center of it. I hear so many of runners with injury problems that do much better after they start working on their hips. Developing the hips in a running specific matter and it really seems to help many runners avoid an entire litany of injuries, as you can have problems just about anywhere if you are compensating for hip weakness/flexibility issues.
Trying to qualify for age group nationals in 2015 in milwaukee by first getting top 33% in my AG at regionals which is pretty easy.
In terms of time, by the end of this summer i'd like to swim @ 1:30/100yards for 1500m ~ 24min swim Ride @ 23mph for 24miles ~ 1hr 5mins run @ 6min/mile ~ 37min 10k
total hoping for sub 2:10 this year as PR for olympic distance. If i qualify for nationals next year (2015), hoping for a sub 2:05 at least and top 18 for my Age group to be eligible for team USA, in which USAT will help with some traveling expenses/registration expenses for their members, plus a kick ass race suit with the USA logo and your name on it :D
also wanna run @ 6:40/mile at boston this april too. Got a lot of work to do
Don't your goals add up to 2:06? Or are those individual races (i.e. you want to run a standalone 36:xx, sub 65 40k tt, etc.)?
I will say if you can run 2:54:40 in Boston you can easily go sub 37 10k. Probably 36 mid or better in a standalone 10k.
Sounds like some pretty good stuff either way. Out of curiosity, how much does a decent but not top of the line road bike cost that you would use in something like triathlon or say a 40k TT? I doubt I can afford it, but it would be fun to get out there and see how I do on the bike, as I don't believe the numbers the trainers at the gym puts out for a second(easy rides @ 230-260W depending on bike, giving paces of 22-24 mph. Threshold type pace is like high 200s low 300s wattage and 25-27 mph. All of which sounds bullshit fast).
On January 13 2014 10:30 L_Master wrote: Don't your goals add up to 2:06? Or are those individual races (i.e. you want to run a standalone 36:xx, sub 65 40k tt, etc.)?
I will say if you can run 2:54:40 in Boston you can easily go sub 37 10k. Probably 36 mid or better in a standalone 10k.
Sounds like some pretty good stuff either way. Out of curiosity, how much does a decent but not top of the line road bike cost that you would use in something like triathlon or say a 40k TT? I doubt I can afford it, but it would be fun to get out there and see how I do on the bike, as I don't believe the numbers the trainers at the gym puts out for a second(easy rides @ 230-260W depending on bike, giving paces of 22-24 mph. Threshold type pace is like high 200s low 300s wattage and 25-27 mph. All of which sounds bullshit fast).
Yeah it does add up to about 2:06, but giving myself some more leverage + transition time counts too~
beginner road bike is about 1000$, if you can find a decent one on craiglist you might be able to get a used one for 600$ or so. For time trials, you'd wanna add clip on aerobars, and that's all you'll need.
As for the trainers at the gym, who knows, a lot of trainers are different and maybe you're just a genetically gifted cyclist . Riding outdoors also is different because of wind resistance, and wind resistance increases exponentially, so riding from 25mph to 26mph takes exponentially more power than from 14-15. Also your size, body weight and height also has an effect on your speed. The taller you are the more power you'll require to go faster because you have increased surface area against the wind.
a lot of the bulky/chunky guys with thighs the size of my waist can probably put out 240watts easily, but they are at a huge disavantage during climbs. But from what i remember you put out some impressive 10k times so i doubt you fit in the bulky/chunky boat.
For me, when i first started riding my legs never could keep up with my heart. Like, my legs would die way before i can get my heart rate up decently. After a few month of riding, my legs eventually caught up. The downside of that is your quads increase in size noticibly which may negatively affect running in terms of economy
But all that is from my personal experience, if you can start out riding 20mph+ easily, you might seriously be talented and perhaps need to pursue cycling and i'll be forever jealous.
But all that is from my personal experience, if you can start out riding 20mph+ easily, you might seriously be talented and perhaps need to pursue cycling and i'll be forever jealous.
Running4Eva <3!!
Nah, but during this injury time cycling is a nice break from elliptical on warm days. But for me all I have is a $200 mountain bike that I ride around on. Usually do between 16-18 for an easy ride on dirt trails for that. Terrain isn't especially hilly, but the main trail I bike on climbs about 100'/mile on average.
Build wise I'm currently 5'8" 155 (173 / 70), but if all goes we'll I should be around 62-64kg (140ish lbs) by the time spring is really rolling around.
Totally agree about the wind effect (which iirc is because drag coefficient is cubic power) as going from 20 mph to 25 mph is really difficult, and going for 30 mph is like a sprint effort.
Man, all this talk is making me think I need to "try a tri" (how punny) sometime so I know what is reasonable to expect in different events. Obviously, no one is going to run 10k PR pace in a triathlon, but how much slower do you go? Only thing I can think of without thinking is just to consider the triathlon as a 2 hour type effort, and then judge off what your two hour race pace would be...but somehow I doubt that works well, especially when you consider individual variation in how to attack the race itself.
But all that is from my personal experience, if you can start out riding 20mph+ easily, you might seriously be talented and perhaps need to pursue cycling and i'll be forever jealous.
Running4Eva <3!!
Nah, but during this injury time cycling is a nice break from elliptical on warm days. But for me all I have is a $200 mountain bike that I ride around on. Usually do between 16-18 for an easy ride on dirt trails for that. Terrain isn't especially hilly, but the main trail I bike on climbs about 100'/mile on average.
Build wise I'm currently 5'8" 155 (173 / 70), but if all goes we'll I should be around 62-64kg (140ish lbs) by the time spring is really rolling around.
Totally agree about the wind effect (which iirc is because drag coefficient is cubic power) as going from 20 mph to 25 mph is really difficult, and going for 30 mph is like a sprint effort.
Man, all this talk is making me think I need to "try a tri" (how punny) sometime so I know what is reasonable to expect in different events. Obviously, no one is going to run 10k PR pace in a triathlon, but how much slower do you go? Only thing I can think of without thinking is just to consider the triathlon as a 2 hour type effort, and then judge off what your two hour race pace would be...but somehow I doubt that works well, especially when you consider individual variation in how to attack the race itself.
haha we're the same height, i'm like 148-153' ish no racing, and like 145 or 146 racing weight.
how much slower you go depends on a lot of things. From what i've read i've heard two sides of the story. One says, you need to practice doing bricks (or running off the bike, or bike after the swim) to get your body accustomed to the new stress. Running off the bike is a lot more important than riding after the swim. For me, i've noticed that after practicing these brick sessions i'm a lot better now running off the bike. That could be because a). i taught my body how to run more efficiently, or b) i'm a better pacer knowing what it feels to come off the bike and be smart and know how it feels if i'm going out too fast. Or probably a combination of both.
And again, on the elite spectrum. Alistar brownlee only runs 30seconds slower in a tri for his 10k than his open 10k time. It just shows that he is extremely efficient even after 2 prior events.
What i love most about tri's is that there is so much room for improvement. Even if i'm injured in one sport i can completely focus on the other two, and when you come back to running it'll take way less time to get back to your original running shape. I just started back running again and my easy runs aren't much slower than my easy runs before i got injured, i'm guessing now with 2-3 more week i'll be a faster runner than i was before with the amount of aerobic base i developed through the other two sports.
I used to just compete in running events, and when i got injured cross training was a CHORE. I hated pushing myself on the bike and hated pool running. However, with a different mindset and that i actually want to get BETTER at swimming and cycling, I actually WANT to train hard and do those intervals to keep my fitness.
On January 13 2014 05:47 Malinor wrote: 1. Get below 95kg 2. Run 5k in under 23 Minutes 3. Run 2.000 Km in total
If some of you use Garmin Connect, please add me. I am Malinor there as well.
That is some pretty respectable kilometerage, more than what I would think of as health running or basic cardio. You switchin it up from the lifting for a while?
If you don't mind my asking, how tall are you and what does your 5k pr sit at right now?
My best 5k sits at 25:03. I should have been able to break this several times, but things just didn't go my way whenever I tried.
I am not really lifting at the moment, mostly because of injuries (which I got from sprinting). But also because I want to drop some weight and lifting is just no fun when in a caloric deficit.
I have a Pull-Up Bar with attached Gymnastic Rings in my flat. Plus a weightlifting belt with weights. So I do a lot of bodyweight stuff which is tons of fun.
Started the "year" (my year started on 27th of December^^) with 110,3kg and I am now at 106,4. I am 180cm. I don't think you should be above 100kg at that height unless you are a serious weightlifter, which I am not right now, So there you go. Considering how I looked when I was 99kg, below 95kg should be enough. 90kg would be around optimal, I think.
The 2.000 Km goal is probably not going to hold up throughout the year... but it doesn't matter. It holds me accountable for now. As long as the weight drops and I finally run a time that satisfies me.. the goal is just a mean to an end.
Cut down workout with the team today: Sets of 3x800, 3x400, 3x200. 3:00 rest between 800s, 2:00 between 400s, 1:00 between 200s. Lap jog between sets.
(2:52, 2:50, 2:49) (81, 78, 77) (37, 34, 33)
Worked hard on the reps, but recovery was long so workout wasn't especially taxing and I was able to run at a pretty quick pace. 800s definitely got a little tough at the end, hard to tell if I could sustain that for 2M. Certainly could run at least 5:30 for the mile, 5:20 or faster would be a stretch I think based on how I felt during the 800s and 400s.
On January 14 2014 03:20 Raidern wrote: Does anyone here have a garmin? I'd like to ask some questions about it.
Yes, what do you want to know? I have the Forerunner 210 and it's a really solid watch (although sometimes the satellites take a while to fund). Not that pricey, though it's a step up from the entry levels.
sub 20 minute 5K. (ran a 21:35 on new years day) sub 5:30 mile. (ran a 5:50 late last year)
focusing more on timing goals and speed stuff. Last year was dominated by marathon training which honestly started getting boring, I like hard, fast training and speedwork so much more than just the endless "junk" miles that I got stuck into all last Fall. Hope everyone in here has a successful 2014, hope the Boston training is going well Ypang, just 3 months away now wow!
On January 15 2014 14:34 LuckyFool wrote: 2014 goals:
sub 20 minute 5K. (ran a 21:35 on new years day) sub 5:30 mile. (ran a 5:50 late last year)
focusing more on timing goals and speed stuff. Last year was dominated by marathon training which honestly started getting boring, I like hard, fast training and speedwork so much more than just the endless "junk" miles that I got stuck into all last Fall. Hope everyone in here has a successful 2014, hope the Boston training is going well Ypang, just 3 months away now wow!
Pretty sure you can get there no problem, especially since you have that base from those miles (junk miles don't exist ). Start getting some speed and you'll get there no problem. In fact your mile speed is already good enough for sub 20, so an emphasis on some tempo work and 5k pace aerobic intervals should get you into that ballpark.
As always, if you got weight to lose...do it. Roughly 2 seconds per pound per mile is nothing to sneeze at, and now is the best time before you really move into your harder track training.
As far as 5:30 goes, you'll probably get it either way, but if you ran 5:50 off primarily mileage I suspect you'll easily nab 5:30 after a month or two of good track work. Post your sessions up when you start doing em!
Finally managed to go sub40, with a solid 39:06. Race went well, altough the course was too small for the 600 participants, so I had to slow down the first to 2km´s. (Which is probably not that bad since I usually overpace:-))
In three weeks form now, there will be another 10km on the same course, hopefully I can push my PR again.
So between the snow storm, a ski trip, and finally some rain I missed a lot of days of running. Yesterday it was relatively nice (40F and cloudly) so I jogged 2 miles at slightly faster than 10 minutes per mile pace (I figured I'd take it easy after taking so many days off, rather than doing my longer ~3.4 mile route). Today there was a threat of rain again so I figured I'd do a quick run and try to fit it in before any precipitation: I ran my 1.5 mile route (actually about 1.47 miles I think) in ~12:40 which is great news. When I start my military training in a bit over 2 weeks I need to be able to run 1.5 miles in 14:00. After 5 weeks of training I need to be able to run it in 12:53. I seem to be right about at the borderline for passing the "out" test. I'll just keep doing some 3.4 mile jogs to maintain my abilities and possibly push my time down a few tenths of a minute.
Although this is a running thread I'll point out that my situps are just barely at the "in" level as well. My pushups still need some work!
On January 16 2014 06:57 Bentus wrote: Finally managed to go sub40, with a solid 39:06. Race went well, altough the course was too small for the 600 participants, so I had to slow down the first to 2km´s. (Which is probably not that bad since I usually overpace:-))
In three weeks form now, there will be another 10km on the same course, hopefully I can push my PR again.
Very nice!! Probably felt good to finally get through that barrier and get that monkey off the back, especially since you smashed sub 40.
Good cut-down workout 5xmile w/2:30 jog recovery dropping 10 seconds off each time 6:40, 6:30, 6:20, 6:10, 5:56.
Chilled for about 10 min then 2 400s in 69 and 66.
First 2 were really easy, even the third one wasn't bad. Had to work some on the latter part of the 6:10, and the last one was tough work but I was able to pick up the pace a little. 400s were just about running fast when tired and keeping good form.
3x5x300 today, plenty of recovery with 90-120 sec walk between each rep and 2 lap jog between sets. Basically just a workout with full recovery that helps to make race paces seem smoother.
Times of (60, 57, 55, 56, 56) (53, 54, 55, 55, 52) (59, 57, 58, 57, 50); so basically 3M of running around 4:50-5:00 pace in a totally non stressful manner.
Ah man... I haven't been in here in a long time... A while back I was trying to improve my 1.5 mile time and 3 mile time for a fitness test coming in the end of spring. I left off at doing 3M nearly everyday with ease then took like a few months off because I was too depressed to do anything with injuries (I ended up sheepishly running inconsistently with no progress) =( shame on me.
For the past month I've been at it again very seriously. Learned the hard way that my shoes needed to be replaced, and that my form REALLY sucked. Fixed it and it's made a big difference. Currently 4M runs are a breeze, looking to up it even more but I'm looking for some input on this running program I found for improving my 5K time.
Generic plans like that are okay when starting off, and that one isn't bad for a beginner with only one day a week of speedwork. Honestly I think the volume could be a little higher on most of those runs, and one of the rest days cut out if you've been doing 15-20 mpw or more.
Sounds good thanks for the input. I'll make those changes as I follow through with it. Honestly it seems like the same thing I'm doing except the 1 day of speedwork, and the test runs.
On January 30 2014 20:53 YPang wrote: got a indoor track meet tomorrow, due to one of my teammates injurying his knee while running on ice i'm put into 3 events.
3k, few mins later 1600, and probably 1600 distance relay medly.
Ran a sub 24 5k today. Really happy with the time, didn't even think I could get close to 24 minutes.
Think my new goal is just to lose some weight. Been at around 210 pounds for a while now and eating so much bad food and drinking so much pepsi. Going to aim for 170 pounds and hopefully be consistent with it for once.
my goal would be ..15-16M/week i guess, thats 5 days a week instead of 3 :s
however the +2 days will be a lot easier coz i will go on flat surface. my normal route (to or back from gym) involves massive fucking hills which destroy me)
oh look you can see road elevation on a map somehow sick :D
So last month I jogged for the first time in almost 1.5 years (after knee injury) for 3 minutes. It got pretty painful towards the end so I stopped, but I want to try doing more every other week and see how well I can progress.
So, since I am basically starting from zero, I might as well do it right: What are some things I should know about running? So far I just, well, ran, without any regards for technique, equipment etc. A short google search revealed a quagmire of partially conflicting information, as expected.
I used to be an OK runner I guess. Two metrics I remember from before injury: - 1 minute @ 15km/h alternating with 1 minute @ 9km/h for 45 minutes. - 16km 1:15h
On February 04 2014 22:46 FFGenerations wrote: im 9-10M/week the past 4 weeks
my goal would be ..15-16M/week i guess, thats 5 days a week instead of 3 :s
however the +2 days will be a lot easier coz i will go on flat surface. my normal route (to or back from gym) involves massive fucking hills which destroy me)
oh look you can see road elevation on a map somehow sick :D
this is my route back from gym
Being from Colorado and looking at that graph I'm like oh looks pretty flat It's pretty easy to find routers around here with anywhere from 500 to 800ft vertical gain over 3 miles. Or 2200' gain over one mile on a certain "hill"....
I think you'll be in good shape with the mileage increase. Those hills will help turn you into a beast too.
On February 04 2014 23:26 zatic wrote: So last month I jogged for the first time in almost 1.5 years (after knee injury) for 3 minutes. It got pretty painful towards the end so I stopped, but I want to try doing more every other week and see how well I can progress.
So, since I am basically starting from zero, I might as well do it right: What are some things I should know about running? So far I just, well, ran, without any regards for technique, equipment etc. A short google search revealed a quagmire of partially conflicting information, as expected.
I used to be an OK runner I guess. Two metrics I remember from before injury: - 1 minute @ 15km/h alternating with 1 minute @ 9km/h for 45 minutes. - 16km 1:15h
Short Version:
Start simple. 2-3 days a week of running. 20-30 min. Easy pace (very conversational, should feel like the pace itself would be comfortable to hold for many hours).
If that week feels good, add a day. Repeat till you are running 5-6 days a week, then you can look to bring up the duration a bit and start adding some "quality" (harder training sessions) in there or build the mileage.
I do hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if the knee hurts from 3 minutes and if pretty painful, that likely doesn't bode too well, thought it is possible your body is just stressed from getting used to running again.
On February 04 2014 22:46 FFGenerations wrote: im 9-10M/week the past 4 weeks
my goal would be ..15-16M/week i guess, thats 5 days a week instead of 3 :s
however the +2 days will be a lot easier coz i will go on flat surface. my normal route (to or back from gym) involves massive fucking hills which destroy me)
oh look you can see road elevation on a map somehow sick :D
this is my route back from gym
Being from Colorado and looking at that graph I'm like oh looks pretty flat It's pretty easy to find routers around here with anywhere from 500 to 800ft vertical gain over 3 miles. Or 2200' gain over one mile on a certain "hill"....
I think you'll be in good shape with the mileage increase. Those hills will help turn you into a beast too.
haha i was lookin forward to someone puttin down my HUGE fuckin hills ;D
I finally had my appointment with the orthopaedist because of my hip. He said that my left leg is a little shorter than my right one. This often causes trouble with the hip if you excercise too much. He sent me to an MRI (yay, free healthcare!) to check out if it fixes itself with rest and wants to measure my legs and feet next time to find out if insoles would help me.
I can run a little without pain at the moment after resting the whole january. But I have to limit myself to about 25km and a slow pace. I feel that if I run a little faster or longer and my hip would hurt again.
Hi guys, I need some advice: I've been running regular hilly 5 miles for about 4+ years now but periodically my shin splints rare up. Like every 5-6 months I guess I must get lazy in form or my shoes wear out but it becomes impossible to run for 2-3 weeks. What can I do to maintain my cardio that isnt using a bike or swimming?
On February 10 2014 12:52 Sub40APM wrote: Hi guys, I need some advice: I've been running regular hilly 5 miles for about 4+ years now but periodically my shin splints rare up. Like every 5-6 months I guess I must get lazy in form or my shoes wear out but it becomes impossible to run for 2-3 weeks. What can I do to maintain my cardio that isnt using a bike or swimming?
Elliptical, StairStepper, water running (f pool access isn't the issue), rowing machine, hiking vigorously up steep hills, possibly some forms of circuit type training
Going to be watching, (and racing the Open 4k) at USA XC Championships this Saturday. Hopefully I can get some sweet videos and pictures! Definitely going to be some great runners there, with Chris Derrick and Jenny Simpson headlining.
Derrick and Bobby Mack up front, Puskedra and Quigley lurk
Derrick begins to make his move!
Gentlemen we have seperation
This situation is under control
Chipotle officially validated as a post-race food of choice by da champ
All in all it was a really fun day, aside from some traffic troubles and early morning syndrome causing us to miss the women's race.
I was relatively please with my own race in the open 4k. I hit the 2k split in 7:26, probably a bit aggressive but I didn't feel overwhelmed. Unfortunately I had a shoe get sucked right off my foot in the one gnarly mud area, so I had to wade a few meters back and dig that sucker out of the mud, and then get it back on. Lost a little time doing that, but disappointingly it seemed to kill my rhythm and I ran the last 2k in I think 8:20 or so and just didn't realize how much pace I had lost. That said, it's not a terrible result and I kept it within 2:30 of some of my buddies on the UCCS team who are all around 16 flat guys which was essentially my goal going in. If I head to guess I think I could run about 19:00 right now on a nice flat road course.
Gettin back there. Baby steps. Down a little under 155 now too, so almost back to my pre-injury weight and I suspect by that point I'll only be about 10s/mile outside of where I was before. Not bad for 10mpw of running. Can't weight to see where race lean 140 and some actually running takes me !
I really don't log in or post much on TL, even though I visit almost daily to check for good SC2 streams. I'm a Platinum-level Protoss (same ID on BNet) and currently around 19 minute 5K (on a good day). In high school my teammates (with other friends) would routinely LAN party after Saturday races, so it doesn't surprise me to find this running thread up on TL.
Me: 1x Montana All-State Class A XC, 3x varsity Div III, sub 37min 10K (last summer).
My goals for 2014 (AKA "The Year of Hills"):
1. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent 2. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent in less than 3 hours (very difficult, probably). 3. Run the Mt. Evans Ascent in less than 2 hours, 40 minutes, and thus earn a piece of the mountain as a prize. 4. Run the La Luz Trail Run, hoping to place top 10.
I am currently at 25-30mpw, 1x long run, 1x tempo, 1x hills and other random runs thrown in. It's hard, now, what with being a fully-employed adult (wtf!) to make the time to go out and run. I've firmly anchored myself in my local running store's (Boulder Running Co.) Wednesday night run and a get-together of similarly-paced friends for Sunday long runs. I know that I need to work on my strength and probably get to 50-70mpw (WITHOUT INJURY) to truly be in beasty shape. I've had issues with knees in the past, really hope that with smart training and 2x rest days per week (for now) I can break through to some serious mileage and hit the goals above.
L_Master, it seems you're roughly at the same pace as me/friends, AND you're local-ish, so if you're ever interested in running together up North let me know.
With my post above as preamble, I wanted to propose something additionally awesome:
If we can get permission from TL, would you guys want to put together an order for a custom "Liquid Running" singlet? If enough people would be interested, I'll do what I can to organize options/costs/permission.
Poll: Do we want Team Liquid running singlets?
YES, OMG YES! (3)
60%
Yes, I could probably fork over some cash for this. (2)
40%
Meh, I'd probably wear it once. (0)
0%
No, I already have too much running gear. (0)
0%
No, I hate the idea and I would never wear a TL branded article of clothing! (0)
0%
5 total votes
Your vote: Do we want Team Liquid running singlets?
(Vote): YES, OMG YES! (Vote): Yes, I could probably fork over some cash for this. (Vote): Meh, I'd probably wear it once. (Vote): No, I already have too much running gear. (Vote): No, I hate the idea and I would never wear a TL branded article of clothing!
On February 22 2014 02:48 mtmentat wrote: Greetings, all!
I really don't log in or post much on TL, even though I visit almost daily to check for good SC2 streams. I'm a Platinum-level Protoss (same ID on BNet) and currently around 19 minute 5K (on a good day). In high school my teammates (with other friends) would routinely LAN party after Saturday races, so it doesn't surprise me to find this running thread up on TL.
Me: 1x Montana All-State Class A XC, 3x varsity Div III, sub 37min 10K (last summer).
My goals for 2014 (AKA "The Year of Hills"):
1. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent 2. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent in less than 3 hours (very difficult, probably). 3. Run the Mt. Evans Ascent in less than 2 hours, 40 minutes, and thus earn a piece of the mountain as a prize. 4. Run the La Luz Trail Run, hoping to place top 10.
I am currently at 25-30mpw, 1x long run, 1x tempo, 1x hills and other random runs thrown in. It's hard, now, what with being a fully-employed adult (wtf!) to make the time to go out and run. I've firmly anchored myself in my local running store's (Boulder Running Co.) Wednesday night run and a get-together of similarly-paced friends for Sunday long runs. I know that I need to work on my strength and probably get to 50-70mpw (WITHOUT INJURY) to truly be in beasty shape. I've had issues with knees in the past, really hope that with smart training and 2x rest days per week (for now) I can break through to some serious mileage and hit the goals above.
L_Master, it seems you're roughly at the same pace as me/friends, AND you're local-ish, so if you're ever interested in running together up North let me know.
If you don't mind my asking...where do you live? That Wednesday night run and Sunday morning long run sound eerily familiar, BUT it could be a standard for BRC.
I will say I'm certainly down for a run, or coordinating to show up at the same race sometime for sure.
2. Run the Pike's Peak Ascent in less than 3 hours (very difficult, probably).
I dunno if that would be especially difficult. I've hiked the Peak several times in the 3-3.5 hour range, and while that wasn't starting from down on Ruxton like the race does, it also was by no means an all out effort. I suspect that would be a pretty reasonable goal, especially given you're already a pretty respectable runner.
If you don't mind my asking...where do you live? That Wednesday night run and Sunday morning long run sound eerily familiar, BUT it could be a standard for BRC.
I will say I'm certainly down for a run, or coordinating to show up at the same race sometime for sure.
Hehe, I'm in Broomfield, but work in Boulder. Wednesday night is the same for all BRC, as far as I know, and Sunday is the same day as most running clubs/meetups' long runs (however, ours is just a bunch of friends getting together recently).
From your posts I assume you're down in CO Springs? I think we've probably crossed paths a few times without knowing it.
On February 23 2014 06:03 micronesia wrote: Is a running singlet basically a sleeveless, sweat wicking shirt? If so how much would a tl item cost, approximately?
Separately, my new record run is 5 miles :p
Nicely done on the 5 miles. Last year some of my best feeling weeks were ones where I ran the same 5 mile loop day after day, feeling good and fast the whole time. Was this 5 miles a local loop or a special run/event?
Yes, singlets are the racier version, usually without much sleeve at all (see L_Master's race pictures above for some examples). What I'm imagining would be the TL Horse splashed across the chest, either vertically symmetric or a bit of a tilt. If we would rather have a more "everyday" running shirt we could do that, too, but then it might be too similar to the already available TL Jersey.
As to cost, it really depends upon how many you order and what quality. I would guess around $30-$40 per.
Was just jogging on the treadmill.... trying to keep myself in decent shape since I cannot run during the week currently. Was not going particularly fast... like 5.8 mph. For me that's not that slow though lol.... my only event ever was a 31 min 5k.
If you don't mind my asking...where do you live? That Wednesday night run and Sunday morning long run sound eerily familiar, BUT it could be a standard for BRC.
I will say I'm certainly down for a run, or coordinating to show up at the same race sometime for sure.
Hehe, I'm in Broomfield, but work in Boulder. Wednesday night is the same for all BRC, as far as I know, and Sunday is the same day as most running clubs/meetups' long runs (however, ours is just a bunch of friends getting together recently).
From your posts I assume you're down in CO Springs? I think we've probably crossed paths a few times without knowing it.
Yessah. We probably have, especially if you went to any of the Colorado LANs as I helped organize those, especially the one at DU, and to a lesser extent the one that guys apartment complex.
Wanna race @ Boulder Bolder or something? If that isn't good...well my summer schedule should be pretty wide open, and there is apparently a track series that goes on in Bolder that I'll probably run some of cause track racing is the best of things.
If you end up down in the Springs at all training for the Peak let me know, and I''ll post if I'm headed to Bolder. Probably going to run Mags up in Bolder sometime in late April, so if you are free than let me know as well.
On February 23 2014 06:39 micronesia wrote: Was just jogging on the treadmill.... trying to keep myself in decent shape since I cannot run during the week currently. Was not going particularly fast... like 5.8 mph. For me that's not that slow though lol.... my only event ever was a 31 min 5k.
Good stuff man. That's basically your 5k pace right there, so it sounds like you are still in pretty solid shape. Has your military test happened yet?
yea i had one about 25 days ago and passed.... i will need to do more of them but they won't get harder... ideally i will keep getting better and i will score higher but that is optional. i have two more weeks of training before my life kinda returns to normal. sorry for no caps but my phone kinda sucks lol
Yay. Seems I've overcome my hip injury. MRI looked for cartilage(?) damage and was negative. I'm slowly increasing my weekly mileage again so I can somehow finish my 31k hill race in two months. I'm still in a terrible shape but I get better every week plus my exam session is in its final week so I won't skip any runs anymore. Was running in the hills which are part of the race last weekend and it went better than expected. It's a tough course with serious climbs but I had a lot fun and I'm really looking forward to the 31k.
@mtmentat: No singlet for me. I prefer sleeves and shipping it to EU isn't worth it. Neat idea though.
On February 25 2014 21:30 Don_Julio wrote: [...] the 31k.
GL&HF on the Hermannslauf. That looks like a pretty crazy race, but smart training for 2 months will definitely get you ready.
@mtmentat: No singlet for me. I prefer sleeves and shipping it to EU isn't worth it. Neat idea though.
No problem, Don_Julio, that's why I asked! Perhaps we'll move towards sleeves, too, if more people want to (of course, dependent on all getting permission once we have critical mass anyway).
@mtmentat: No singlet for me. I prefer sleeves and shipping it to EU isn't worth it. Neat idea though.
No problem, Don_Julio, that's why I asked! Perhaps we'll move towards sleeves, too, if more people want to (of course, dependent on all getting permission once we have critical mass anyway).
Ha. How did you know Sherlock? The hills aren't that high or steep. The craziness comes from running 31km. The Hermannslauf is legendary in my area and every runner here needs to finish it at least once in his lifetime. The best part about it is that there's a huge crowd almost everywhere and that they come to cheer for everyone not just the leaders. I can't wait.
Yeah, I've only ever done one marathon, and didn't train properly enough beforehand. Stay motivated, stay consistent, get LOTS of careful miles/km under your belt and your 31km will fly by! If not, it'll be a grind and hurt a lot, but you'll probably still finish.
quick update on me, past few weeks the majority of my training runs have been on treadmills because of all the ice and snow on the ground...(and we're supposed to get another foot tonight, joy....) which has resulted in me running less (I hate doing long runs on treadmills, I have a mental block or something) I hope to get back in the normal grind as the weather gets nicer. I have two half marathons I'm running in the summer in May and June which I want to crush. After that I'm going to gun for my mile and 5K PR's in the mid/late summer after I've built my mileage back. (Right now I am at like 25mpw but I want to double that for at least a month in the August/Sept time-frame, or earlier)
Also I ran a 10 mile race today in 1:20:32 (8:03/mile) I was really happy with my pacing throughout the event. Just hard enough so I could manage, without any big dropoff in the last few miles. splits;
This was only my 3rd race longer than a 5K and the past two I dropped off big time coming home so to be able to finish at a consistent pace was a big win for me. I always vision myself picking things up significantly and come flying home in the last two miles but that's always when the burn and mental struggle really starts setting in...glad I didn't drop off, next time will have to figure out how to speed it up.
Damn it. TL needs a metric-imperial converser just like the [time] command.
You should be really happy about your pacing. I guess it was really satisfying to run past other runners who started out too fast in the later part of the race. I've always screwed that up starting out way too fast no matter how much I focused on running slow in the beginning. You can probably run sub a 1:45h at your HMs if you manage to train properly
I usually like running in the snow. It's just beautiful outside. At least I remember that I used to like it. We had snow once this winter and it thawed the next day. Global warming is real here.
NICE run, LuckyFool!! I really like the (mostly) negative splits through the first 6 miles. Were there any sort of elevation changes over the course?
Running on snow and ice is really hard to judge. I've heard lots of different arguments, but I think it boils down to how much experience a runner has: a treadmill is less likely to cause an injury and doesn't require cold weather gear, but if you're used to taking care/running patiently on snow and ice you'll probably choose that instead. I did an 11-mile training run this weekend with a few friends, half on snowy trails and half on snow-packed/plowed/bare roads. We had one fall, but no injuries, luckily.
What are your thoughts about nutrition during long races (or training runs)?
I tried "PowerGel" today and it worked nicely after kicking in ~15 minutes later. I'm not sure if it's enough to support me during my upcoming 3 hour race or if I have to chew some more substantial stuff like fruits or even bars additionally. My plan is to bring two gels with me and start eating them at about one hour into the race and get additional ones from friend and family who are going to watch. And I want to supplement it with the fruit that they give you at the supply stations.
If I'm targeting a 3.5mile race in three months, how should I train for it? In other words, how long should my long runs be -- 4 miles, 6 miles, 8 miles? Do I do a mix of shorter runs and longer runs or stay consistently around 3.5miles?
On March 09 2014 13:31 GrandInquisitor wrote: If I'm targeting a 3.5mile race in three months, how should I train for it? In other words, how long should my long runs be -- 4 miles, 6 miles, 8 miles? Do I do a mix of shorter runs and longer runs or stay consistently around 3.5miles?
First we need to know how much are you running right now per week?
General idea is a progression. We want to gradual build some mileage up for the next couple months.
A rough sketch might be:
Wk1 - 10 miles (2-3 runs) Wk2 - 15 miles (3-4 runs) Wk3 - 20 miles (4-5 runs) Wk4 - 10 miles (2-3 runs) Wk5 - 20 miles (2-3 runs) Wk6 - 25 miles (4-5 runs) Wk7 - 25 miles (4-5 runs) Wk8 - 30 miles (5-6 runs)
The actual length of the runs doesn't really matter, but frequency is generally a good thing as opposed to cramming it all into several very long runs. Having one run that is a little longer than your others is fine.
I'd encourage you on some runs if you feel good to pick up the pace, and finish the last say 10 minutes or so at a moderate clip. After some runs, do some 20sec pickups at a little slower than sprint pace. The rest of the running should be EASY. Very relaxed and conversational, and feeling like running four or five hours at that pace would not be challenging.
After you get up to around 30 mpw or so, then come back and we discuss a little bit about actual speed training; but without a good base jumping into a bunch of fast training is likely to break you down.
On March 13 2014 07:42 Steveling wrote: Just dropping by to ask why do you guys need a new running thread every year?
Allows for a fresh start each year, makes it much easier to search when you can use the show all and then cntrl-f (can't for threads >50 pages), less to wade through looking for certain topics, etc
Also, check your heartrate in general next time, as you are probaly running too fast. Your legs might feel a bit tired at an easy pace, but they won't be burning.
Around week 2. Also I'm not sure how I'm supposed to lower my pace without lowering my cadence. I run to hardstyle music which keeps around 160bpm so I just make sure my footsteps match the beat.
On March 04 2014 03:31 mtmentat wrote: NICE run, LuckyFool!! I really like the (mostly) negative splits through the first 6 miles. Were there any sort of elevation changes over the course?
Running on snow and ice is really hard to judge. I've heard lots of different arguments, but I think it boils down to how much experience a runner has: a treadmill is less likely to cause an injury and doesn't require cold weather gear, but if you're used to taking care/running patiently on snow and ice you'll probably choose that instead. I did an 11-mile training run this weekend with a few friends, half on snowy trails and half on snow-packed/plowed/bare roads. We had one fall, but no injuries, luckily.
It was a pretty flat course.
In other news I've really upped my average training paces, I'm running about 4-5 miles a day but I'm doing all the miles at 7:30 pace or faster, with at least one under 7 each day.
I'm going to try keeping this up 6 days a week, (or until I feel any pain) but I've been doing this for a week straight so far and I feel great. I also easily have 6-7 pounds I could definitely lose as well. Feels a little weird doing the same workout every day right now but I'm experimenting and as long as I feel fine I see no reason not to continue. Especially since my main goals this year are to just get faster.
Also, check your heartrate in general next time, as you are probaly running too fast. Your legs might feel a bit tired at an easy pace, but they won't be burning.
Around week 2. Also I'm not sure how I'm supposed to lower my pace without lowering my cadence. I run to hardstyle music which keeps around 160bpm so I just make sure my footsteps match the beat.
Speed = Stride Rate (Step/min) * Stride Length
So, the answer is to take shorter steps, which you could also conceptualize as pushing off the ground with less force each time if you want. This will probably feel awkward at first. That feeling will pass.
Next time you are out running and feel that burn in your legs for a little bit, stop for a sec and use your music as a timer and take a heart rate count for 15s and report back with that number.
On March 04 2014 03:31 mtmentat wrote: NICE run, LuckyFool!! I really like the (mostly) negative splits through the first 6 miles. Were there any sort of elevation changes over the course?
Running on snow and ice is really hard to judge. I've heard lots of different arguments, but I think it boils down to how much experience a runner has: a treadmill is less likely to cause an injury and doesn't require cold weather gear, but if you're used to taking care/running patiently on snow and ice you'll probably choose that instead. I did an 11-mile training run this weekend with a few friends, half on snowy trails and half on snow-packed/plowed/bare roads. We had one fall, but no injuries, luckily.
In other news I've really upped my average training paces, I'm running about 4-5 miles a day but I'm doing all the miles at 7:30 pace or faster, with at least one under 7 each day.
I'm going to try keeping this up 6 days a week, (or until I feel any pain) but I've been doing this for a week straight so far and I feel great. I also easily have 6-7 pounds I could definitely lose as well. Feels a little weird doing the same workout every day right now but I'm experimenting and as long as I feel fine I see no reason not to continue. Especially since my main goals this year are to just get faster.
I thought we have discussed this before? If that is an intentional upgrade it is very poor training, unless you are in about 18:30 shape or better.
If I recall you are in about 21 min 5k shape, which makes this somewhere between tempo pace and half marathon pace. These runs probably feel like a strong, but manageable pace to you over the distance you are running them.
The problem here is that first of all it's just a recipe for injury. If you are durable you may get lucky and have no problems, but if you are relatively average you WILL get injured, especially since you just jumped to running hard to.
The bigger issue why this is garbage training is that you aren't giving yourself any time for recovery. Much like in the gym, improvements are actually made during the recovery periods during workouts. The workout itself just provides a stimulus for adaptation, but when you pummel your body everyday it doesn't ever get the chance to adapt. Like anything, you could probably see some gains doing this, since you will be training faster than before, for a month or two but after that you're either going to plateau incredibly hard...or find yourself over-trained and needing to take a month or more off, losing any fitness gains you may have made
What WOULD be good training in preparation for a 5k specific training block would be:
1 sprint session per week 1 scheduled tempo run per week (3M @ 7:10 pace give or take 15/s each way depending on how you are feeling) 1-2 times per week IF (and only IF) feeling good during an easy run, pick it up to that 7:30 pace for the last 15-20 minutes, if you still feel great with say half a mile to go you can gradually pick it up more and drop the hammer a bit for those last couple minutes
In other news I've really upped my average training paces, I'm running about 4-5 miles a day but I'm doing all the miles at 7:30 pace or faster, with at least one under 7 each day.
I'm going to try keeping this up 6 days a week, (or until I feel any pain) but I've been doing this for a week straight so far and I feel great. I also easily have 6-7 pounds I could definitely lose as well. Feels a little weird doing the same workout every day right now but I'm experimenting and as long as I feel fine I see no reason not to continue. Especially since my main goals this year are to just get faster.
Hmmm... I too think that bursting down to 1x sub 7 minute mile per day is probably going to cause injury. It really depends on your running form, running path materials, and personal history with injury (as L_Master mentioned above). That said, I think that you can still probably still do the 4-5 miles per day if you want: just keep the pace easy/steady and focus on running form, breathing, and pay close attention to any pain.
Having an easily repeatable schedule is really useful, sometimes, especially if you're feeling right now that you need to focus on base (from the 6-7 lbs statement) fitness. I took 2 weeks last summer where I did the same run 5x per week, 5 miles per night, varying the pace as little as possible. If life is busy, this is very efficient for increasing base fitness and if you don't go too fast and give yourself an injury (it should feel mostly easy every mile every night) it's a decent plan.
Just wanted to quickly chime in with a few personal running updates:
1) Registered for Pikes Peak Ascent yesterday, pending acceptance of my qualifying 0.5 marathon time. In one day approximately 1500/1800 available registrations filled, pretty awesome.
2) Spring is on its way to the Rockies! Running this week has been feeling great, 11 mile long run on Sunday (7:00 pace), hill workout on Monday (6:30 pace), rest day with a little bit of core strength training on Tuesday, and an awesome tempo run at the Boulder, CO BRC (5:50 pace). Will be mindful of the potential for injury, shoe-shopping this week to help this.
3) Discovered Strava. I know I'm probably late to the game on this one, but I'm having lots of fun documenting my runs and snagging CR's on different segments.
Hope all are doing well, feeling fit, and avoiding injury as we get closer to good running weather!
On March 14 2014 03:12 mtmentat wrote: Hello, all!
Just wanted to quickly chime in with a few personal running updates:
1) Registered for Pikes Peak Ascent yesterday, pending acceptance of my qualifying 0.5 marathon time. In one day approximately 1500/1800 available registrations filled, pretty awesome.
2) Spring is on its way to the Rockies! Running this week has been feeling great, 11 mile long run on Sunday (7:00 pace), hill workout on Monday (6:30 pace), rest day with a little bit of core strength training on Tuesday, and an awesome tempo run at the Boulder, CO BRC (5:50 pace). Will be mindful of the potential for injury, shoe-shopping this week to help this.
3) Discovered Strava. I know I'm probably late to the game on this one, but I'm having lots of fun documenting my runs and snagging CR's on different segments.
Hope all are doing well, feeling fit, and avoiding injury as we get closer to good running weather!
Haha I better get in serious shape before I race you. I'm in way ready to hang with someone that can run sub 17/sub 35
thanks for the advice guys I will definitely mix it up and not run myself into oblivion. I wasn't planning on doing that for more than a week or two anyway. This is what happens when I'm running 90% of the time on treadmills, I get stir crazy.
WHERE IS SPRING. It's actually going to snow like 5 more inches on Sunday now it looks like...FML
On March 14 2014 12:15 LuckyFool wrote: thanks for the advice guys I will definitely mix it up and not run myself into oblivion. I wasn't planning on doing that for more than a week or two anyway. This is what happens when I'm running 90% of the time on treadmills, I get stir crazy.
WHERE IS SPRING. It's actually going to snow like 5 more inches on Sunday now it looks like...FML
I really like doing progression runs when I have to run easy on the treadmill. Let's say 8.0 is right about average easy pace. I might start at 7.5 and every half mile increase by .1. If I feel great I can get faster, or fartlek for their or whatever. If I don't feel good I can just chill at 8 or ladder back down. It at least gives you something happening every 3-4 mins
The past 2.5 weeks I haven't maintained my workout, but I started the year off strong with some very consistent routine for January and February of running pretty much everyday, after having maybe 3 days/week in October-December.
Goals: Either a half marathon (undetermined pace) and/or a sub 18:00 5k, 36:30 10k for October timeframe (6 months).
I ran an 18:30 5k in february on an incredibly flat road race and felt pretty good about it, so I feel the 18:00 5k is certainly a goal I can [easily] achieve; it wouldn't be a PR, but my PR is ~5 years old.
My training this year has pretty much just exclusively been tempo runs or some pretty quick treadmill runs (manually doing hill workouts or built in "mountain" workouts, some training of like 2.5 min fast [I guess slightly below 5k race pace], 2.5 min jog for 30 minutes, or just 30-35 minute runs). I need to start going on runs >6 miles (>10 km) more frequently though.
2) Spring is on its way to the Rockies! Running this week has been feeling great, 11 mile long run on Sunday (7:00 pace), hill workout on Monday (6:30 pace), rest day with a little bit of core strength training on Tuesday, and an awesome tempo run at the Boulder, CO BRC (5:50 pace). Will be mindful of the potential for injury, shoe-shopping this week to help this.
Haha I better get in serious shape before I race you. I'm in way ready to hang with someone that can run sub 17/sub 35
Perhaps calling it a "tempo" run is a bit misleading, it might have hurt just a wee bit more than a tempo. A sub 18 minute 5K is currently what I think I can probably consistently pull off, but sub 17 might be accessible in another month or two of similar training (and as the miles dial up). It just feels great, having some of this year's early running/training starting to pay off.
I need some advice on an upcoming race that is going to take place at Sunday the 30th. It has a Halfmarathon and a 10k. My initial plan was to use the HM as a test for the 30k hillrace which I can't stop talking about, is my main focus and which takes place exactly four weeks later. I wanted to run it with my friend who I was going to run the 30k with, too. He got some devestating news from his doctor concerning his knee.and lost all motivation to train. So he's probably not going to run the HM and we're going to run our own paces at the 30k.
I'm wondering if the HM which is on a totally flat course is going to help me in any way or if I should try the 10k instead. The 10k is the first of a series of races in my city, which I'm tempted to participate in again (was fun last year). I have no idea if I'm in PR shape atm.
So my actual questions are:
1. Would running the HM help me? I wouldn't run with full effort probably. I'm almost running a HM at an easy pace on a weekly basis anyways.
2. How do I figure out how close to my 10k PR (45:55 back in September) I am? Some Intervals or like a 7k run at PR pace?
Yea, you could use the HM as a workout if you wanted. Certainly wouldn't hurt. Something like run the first 10 miles at roughly marathon pace, then hammer the last 5k as much as you want.
As far as #2 6xMile w/60-90s jog recovery is a pretty classic "predictor" workout. If you know your own training it's usually pretty easy to infer your rough shape based on paces of easy runs, tempos, and the workouts you are doing.
For instance in my case, because I tend to be mediocre as a racer, and sometimes a bit aggressive with tempos I know I'm good for about tempo pace - 20s for mile for a flat 5k course. You might not have that down yet, but if you pay attention to your training you'll start to find things to cue off of.
On March 18 2014 10:39 Don_Julio wrote: I'm wondering if the HM which is on a totally flat course is going to help me in any way or if I should try the 10k instead. The 10k is the first of a series of races in my city, which I'm tempted to participate in again (was fun last year). I have no idea if I'm in PR shape atm.
So my actual questions are:
1. Would running the HM help me? I wouldn't run with full effort probably. I'm almost running a HM at an easy pace on a weekly basis anyways.
2. How do I figure out how close to my 10k PR (45:55 back in September) I am? Some Intervals or like a 7k run at PR pace?
I actually think that doing the 10km might be more useful. If you're already going a decent bit of mileage, running but not racing a HM really won't be that novel, whereas actually racing the 10km will give you the mental confidence on the last 3rd of your upcoming (keep talking about it! get psyched!) 30km run. Either the mile repeat method L_Master mentioned or just running a known 5K and converting it would give you a pretty decent idea of how close you are to PR, and then running it will be the true test!
Posting here to perhaps one day look back at how I've progressed. 3 weeks ago I got my shit together and actually started working on myself. I haven't really been an active person, besides very early childhood. Now that I'm 20 years old, I'm pretty unfit, but I'm slowly starting to see some improvements.
I saw someone suggest the C25K program, and I finally put my smartphone to use and downloaded a running app called RunDouble. Basically it has bunch of plans in it, which help to train. This particular program, emphasises on intervals and slowly increasing time spent running each week. This has been in my experience been really heplful, as every previous time I got a surge to improve myself, I just burnt myself out in a week or so. But this app actually tells me when to run and when to walk.
I've now started my 4th week with the C25k plan, and I'm slowly feeling better. The first and second week were the hardest, as my legs and places which I don't know how to name, were constantly painful after each run, but by the third week, that wasn't the case anymore. After each running session, I feel really tired for a bit, but overall I'm feeling more energetic throughout the day, and the pain doesn't occur that often anymore.
I do have some difficulties with running though. Every time I go for a run, I have to wear a knee band, because if I don't it may really start to hurt. I'm thinking of getting a second one too, then both of my knees would feel great (only the right one is somewhat problematic, but nothing too serious).
Running in a very changing weather has it problems as well. Just last week it was all sunny, and it was looking like summer was just around the corner, but as is, this week has been full of snow and ice. Slippery and icy roads can sometimes make it really difficult to stay standing, but somehow I've found that running instead of walking on ice is easier, than one would think. The worst weather in my case has to be either extreme windiness or cold (-10C). After those days my head and ears really hurt and I can feel really tired for the rest of the day.
I've noticed that other runners that I've encountered all wear special clothing and/or headphones. When it comes to clothing I wear some light clothing, which in any way, shape, or form isn't aerodynamic, and my footwear consits of some cheap trainers and extra padding (really helpful, as otherwise I'd be unable to run). I don't listen to music when I run, partly because I find it distracting, and partly, because good running hardware is too expensive.
Although my current shoes are surprisingly comfortable (must be the padding), they definitely won't last very long because they're pretty damn cheap. I'm thinking of buying special running shoes, but those seem kind of questionable, as I don't know if I could actually run in those. A lot better option seems to be trail running shoes, as they seem to have better padding and softer (?) feel to them. I don't like random pebbles under my feet.
Anyways back to running. Each week the longest interval distance grew. When the first week my longest interval was just 0,21 km, then by the second week it had grown to 0,28 km. The third week almost doubled the longest distance with 0.56 km. The fourth week has started with the longest distance yet, with 0,84 km.
I made a shitty spreadsheet, if anyone's interested located here.
I've noticed that the days where I run with a faster pace, under 7:00 min/km, I get tired more quickly, and I may fail to finish appropriately. The fastest pace has been 6.30 min/km, but if I remember correctly, the weather conditions were perfect that day, so maybe that has something to do with that. I think about 7:10 min/km would be the optimal pace for me, as I won't get too tired too fast, and will likely finish the run. The days where I ran too fast, usually resulted in my knees hurting really badly, so that's something to consider. If the pace is too fast, I just can't last. Only thing saving my knees on really fast days has been the knee band. Otherwise I would've probably quit by now.
What else... Arguably, my nose has been runnier than ever before, and I have blown it more than ever before. But interestingly enough, it hasn't bled. Usually my nose would be spraying blood all over the place, but that hasn't occurred yet. Perhaps the weather hasn't been too cold.
Total distance I've ran since I started a little less than 3 weeks ago, including walking intervals, but no warm-up or cool-down: 22,46 km.
In addition to running I also do push-ups and sit-ups regularly and stretches before each run. I'm skinnier than ever before, but that's probably due to the fact that my braces and recently 'fixed' jaw won't allow me to eat everything I'd like. I've also stopped adding sugar to my tea, and I eat a bit less chocolate now. Well not less, but not everything in one hour and instead trying to enjoy it over span of a week. Totally cutting sugar seems impossible and rather pointless to me, as all foods increase some form of sugar, and some foods just don't work without sugar. I currently weigh about 76 kg (about 170 pounds) while being 197 cm (6'6") tall. To put it in perspective, at the time when I dropped out of college 3 months ago, I was weighing 85 kilos, which means almost a 10kg drop in weight. Some would say that I'm too skinny, but honestly, I've been lean my whole life, and I don't think I'm that skinny. I've seen some anorectics and I'm far from that (I love food and eating). I could be more muscular, but that would require me to go to a gym, which I'm not interested in. I enjoy running and seeing the scenery and people more.
Well that's about it I guess. This came out pretty long, but I felt I needed to write it down somewhere. I'm feeling motivated and I look forward to my future runs.
Posting here to perhaps one day look back at how I've progressed. 3 weeks ago I got my shit together and actually started working on myself. I haven't really been an active person, besides very early childhood. Now that I'm 20 years old, I'm pretty unfit, but I'm slowly starting to see some improvements.
I saw someone suggest the C25K program, and I finally put my smartphone to use and downloaded a running app called RunDouble. Basically it has bunch of plans in it, which help to train. This particular program, emphasises on intervals and slowly increasing time spent running each week. This has been in my experience been really heplful, as every previous time I got a surge to improve myself, I just burnt myself out in a week or so. But this app actually tells me when to run and when to walk.
I've now started my 4th week with the C25k plan, and I'm slowly feeling better. The first and second week were the hardest, as my legs and places which I don't know how to name, were constantly painful after each run, but by the third week, that wasn't the case anymore. After each running session, I feel really tired for a bit, but overall I'm feeling more energetic throughout the day, and the pain doesn't occur that often anymore.
I do have some difficulties with running though. Every time I go for a run, I have to wear a knee band, because if I don't it may really start to hurt. I'm thinking of getting a second one too, then both of my knees would feel great (only the right one is somewhat problematic, but nothing too serious).
Running in a very changing weather has it problems as well. Just last week it was all sunny, and it was looking like summer was just around the corner, but as is, this week has been full of snow and ice. Slippery and icy roads can sometimes make it really difficult to stay standing, but somehow I've found that running instead of walking on ice is easier, than one would think. The worst weather in my case has to be either extreme windiness or cold (-10C). After those days my head and ears really hurt and I can feel really tired for the rest of the day.
I've noticed that other runners that I've encountered all wear special clothing and/or headphones. When it comes to clothing I wear some light clothing, which in any way, shape, or form isn't aerodynamic, and my footwear consits of some cheap trainers and extra padding (really helpful, as otherwise I'd be unable to run). I don't listen to music when I run, partly because I find it distracting, and partly, because good running hardware is too expensive.
Although my current shoes are surprisingly comfortable (must be the padding), they definitely won't last very long because they're pretty damn cheap. I'm thinking of buying special running shoes, but those seem kind of questionable, as I don't know if I could actually run in those. A lot better option seems to be trail running shoes, as they seem to have better padding and softer (?) feel to them. I don't like random pebbles under my feet.
Anyways back to running. Each week the longest interval distance grew. When the first week my longest interval was just 0,21 km, then by the second week it had grown to 0,28 km. The third week almost doubled the longest distance with 0.56 km. The fourth week has started with the longest distance yet, with 0,84 km.
I made a shitty spreadsheet, if anyone's interested located here.
I've noticed that the days where I run with a faster pace, under 7:00 min/km, I get tired more quickly, and I may fail to finish appropriately. The fastest pace has been 6.30 min/km, but if I remember correctly, the weather conditions were perfect that day, so maybe that has something to do with that. I think about 7:10 min/km would be the optimal pace for me, as I won't get too tired too fast, and will likely finish the run. The days where I ran too fast, usually resulted in my knees hurting really badly, so that's something to consider. If the pace is too fast, I just can't last. Only thing saving my knees on really fast days has been the knee band. Otherwise I would've probably quit by now.
What else... Arguably, my nose has been runnier than ever before, and I have blown it more than ever before. But interestingly enough, it hasn't bled. Usually my nose would be spraying blood all over the place, but that hasn't occurred yet. Perhaps the weather hasn't been too cold.
Total distance I've ran since I started a little less than 3 weeks ago, including walking intervals, but no warm-up or cool-down: 22,46 km.
In addition to running I also do push-ups and sit-ups regularly and stretches before each run. I'm skinnier than ever before, but that's probably due to the fact that my braces and recently 'fixed' jaw won't allow me to eat everything I'd like. I've also stopped adding sugar to my tea, and I eat a bit less chocolate now. Well not less, but not everything in one hour and instead trying to enjoy it over span of a week. Totally cutting sugar seems impossible and rather pointless to me, as all foods increase some form of sugar, and some foods just don't work without sugar. I currently weigh about 76 kg (about 170 pounds) while being 197 cm (6'6") tall. To put it in perspective, at the time when I dropped out of college 3 months ago, I was weighing 85 kilos, which means almost a 10kg drop in weight. Some would say that I'm too skinny, but honestly, I've been lean my whole life, and I don't think I'm that skinny. I've seen some anorectics and I'm far from that (I love food and eating). I could be more muscular, but that would require me to go to a gym, which I'm not interested in. I enjoy running and seeing the scenery and people more.
Well that's about it I guess. This came out pretty long, but I felt I needed to write it down somewhere. I'm feeling motivated and I look forward to my future runs.
Awesome. This thread is a great source of motivation and advice. Keep us up to date on your progression.
I can't really comment on the C25K program as I have no experience with starting from scratch and notoriously give bad advice. You need to be careful about your knee though. Some more detail would help to give you advice. I can comment on your equipment:
Shoes are your most important equipment obviously and proper running shoes can help you a lot. Your knee issues might come from having bad footwear. Good shoes aren't cheap but they are worth the investment if you plan to continue running. What you want to do is to go to a shop that is dedicated to running. A good salesman will let you run on the treadmill and observe your style. Tell him how much and how fast you're running, what your goals are and what you're planning to spend. He should let you try some shoes on the treadmill then so you can decide which feel good for you. Try to find out if there are any locations at your feet which could cause issues with the shoe. Keep in mind that your feet get bigger if you go for longer runs. Do NOT buy them over the internet or at huge stores where nobody knows his trade.
Clothing isn't that important. I have synthetic, specialized runners wear but almost every single piece was a present. It's easy to gift to a runner; a coupon, a new shirt, new socks and I'm happy. You should be fine with your light clothing. Cotton isn't optimal as it soaks up all the sweat but it shouldn't matter too much in the beginning. Don't worry about aerodynamics. I don't listen to music either. I'm living in a rural area and I love listening to the sounds of nature and I find it important to recognize any danger by cars, bikes or dogs soon enough. You should protect your ears in some way when it's cold. I'm a softy and my ears start hurting when it's <10°C and I'm sweating. That's why I started wearing a bandana all the time even if it's warmer as it stops sweat running into my eyes. When it's <0°C I wear a bandana around my neck, too.
Your weight is still OK. You shouldnt worry about your diet too much. If you don't skip meals when you're hungry and eat healthy you should be fine. There's nothing wrong with being skinny. You would have trouble if you want to build muscles I guess. But everything seems to be fine for a runner. 10kg in 3 months is a lot though. You don't want to keep losing much more.
More info on shoes: the trail running shoes are NOT softer. They are actually much less forgiving, in most cases, because they are built with a stronger shank (hard plastic, metal) to give someone going uphill more "bite" and to be able to keep plodding on without over-extending your Achilles tendon. What Bunn wants are road running shoes, which come in many different varieties, some of which are REALLY emphasizing the padding: i.e. Hoka or other "maximalist" running shoes.
Also, Bunn, I eat chocolate all the time. Food of the gods, food of the gods. I'm actually fairly serious about this: I buy in tens of kilograms as a hobbiest chocolatier. Recent studies (***insert appropriate skepticism!!!) have pointed to some heart/circulatory benefits from moderate consumption of dark chocolate.
Hi again, Bunn - please update us about the knee issues. I myself have pretty bad knees but shoes, proper running form, and a little bit of specific training to increase hip & knee strength can do wonders to help with this.
Thank you all for the helpful comments, I really appreciate them.
On March 20 2014 01:38 mtmentat wrote: Hi again, Bunn - please update us about the knee issues. I myself have pretty bad knees but shoes, proper running form, and a little bit of specific training to increase hip & knee strength can do wonders to help with this.
After reading those, I came to the conclusion that I may have runners knee. I'm not sure, of course, but I do have this need to 'crack' my knee, as mentioned in one of the articles. There are some days when it doesn't hurt, but some other days it can become quite uncomfortable. I'll try to improve it, hopefully all your suggestions will help.
So there seems to be a couple of pieces of advice in the thread that, as a new runner, confuse the hell out of me when taken together.
The first one is that it's important to have recovery time, so you don't want to run every day.
The second one is that a beginner should start at 3-4 days a week, but move up 1 day per week if they can until they're doing 6-7 days a week.
If the first piece of advice is true, wouldn't the second piece be a bad idea?
In order to learn running, I've mapped out a 3 km (1.9 mile) course for myself, which I'm doing in intervals of walking and jogging. (I'm not sure what the difference between jogging and running is, I know running is faster, but I don't know what turns a jog into a run. I know that I'm definitely going way slower than sprinting speed, and my strides are pretty short.) The problem is, I want to do said run every day, and now I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not.
On March 20 2014 09:49 Salivanth wrote: So there seems to be a couple of pieces of advice in the thread that, as a new runner, confuse the hell out of me when taken together.
The first one is that it's important to have recovery time, so you don't want to run every day.
The second one is that a beginner should start at 3-4 days a week, but move up 1 day per week if they can until they're doing 6-7 days a week.
If the first piece of advice is true, wouldn't the second piece be a bad idea?
You are correct recovery time is important, but the "mistake" in the thought process would be the fact that you don't want to run everyday. If you are very new to running, just running is enough of a new stress that days off can be helpful. Some beginners could just hop into to running 4+M everyday and be fine...but you don't know if you are that guy until you try and find yourself able to do it...or injured. So the conservative route is to start with some days off.
As you become conditioned though, a basic run at an easy pace is not a significant stress at all. You can recover fine, arguably better, by just running a nice easy pace; or if you are really hammered from a hard workout a pace that is actually slow and borderline lazy. This "active recovery" is better because it helps circulate blood around to move nutrients and clear metabolic by-products, and also offers a little bit of aerobic development as well.
(I'm not sure what the difference between jogging and running is, I know running is faster, but I don't know what turns a jog into a run. I know that I'm definitely going way slower than sprinting speed, and my strides are pretty short.) The problem is, I want to do said run every day, and now I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not.
This is more of a philosophical question. To me the difference between a runner and a jogger is simple. The joggers motivation is to get something out of running whether it be health, weight loss, looking better etc. The runner is putting something into running, striving to improve, push his limits, and test himself.
As far as the difference between jogging and running...it's completely individual. Most runners I know think of jogging are a really slow pace, the type you would run warming up, cooling down, or just for recovery runs or slow recovery bouts between intervals of hard work. Running is pretty much an easy aerobic pace and faster. This allows what jogging is to be vastly different for runners. For a newer runner 10:00 mile pace is most certainly running, but for an elite athlete like a Kenenisa Bekele or Galen Rupp 6:00 pace is a nice, recovery jog. It's all relative to ones fitness.
In order to learn running, I've mapped out a 3 km (1.9 mile) course for myself, which I'm doing in intervals of walking and jogging.
If you are walking/jogging just to be very conservative that is fine. If the walk breaks are because you are getting winded/tired on your running portions then you are running WAY, WAY, WAYYYY too hard.
In order to learn running, I've mapped out a 3 km (1.9 mile) course for myself, which I'm doing in intervals of walking and jogging.
If you are walking/jogging just to be very conservative that is fine. If the walk breaks are because you are getting winded/tired on your running portions then you are running WAY, WAY, WAYYYY too hard.
And that applies to beginner runners as well? I ask because I don't know if it's even possible for me to run slowly enough to not tire / run out of breath across the entire three kilometers. I guess I'll try running as slowly as I can while still actually running tomorrow and see how that goes.
In order to learn running, I've mapped out a 3 km (1.9 mile) course for myself, which I'm doing in intervals of walking and jogging.
If you are walking/jogging just to be very conservative that is fine. If the walk breaks are because you are getting winded/tired on your running portions then you are running WAY, WAY, WAYYYY too hard.
And that applies to beginner runners as well? I ask because I don't know if it's even possible for me to run slowly enough to not tire / run out of breath across the entire three kilometers. I guess I'll try running as slowly as I can while still actually running tomorrow and see how that goes.
It absolutely applies for beginners. You can run at any pace, even if it was slower than a walk. You just end up with smaller and smaller steps basically.
In order to learn running, I've mapped out a 3 km (1.9 mile) course for myself, which I'm doing in intervals of walking and jogging.
If you are walking/jogging just to be very conservative that is fine. If the walk breaks are because you are getting winded/tired on your running portions then you are running WAY, WAY, WAYYYY too hard.
And that applies to beginner runners as well? I ask because I don't know if it's even possible for me to run slowly enough to not tire / run out of breath across the entire three kilometers. I guess I'll try running as slowly as I can while still actually running tomorrow and see how that goes.
It absolutely applies for beginners. You can run at any pace, even if it was slower than a walk. You just end up with smaller and smaller steps basically.
^ That is going to be one of my goals for this season. I look pretty relaxed...but I can't go much faster, and that's only about 58-60s 400 pace. Pretty much slower than molasses.
Ideally I'd like to get that 400 time down south of 56s or so, which would give me the speed needed to go sub 2.
damn < 56 sec for 400 is really fast for a distance runner, from my experiences from hanging out with runner around me. How would someone go about improving 400 speed as a distance runner? I assume like 200-300 repeats, and possibly strength training like a sprinter.
So if you are targeting a fast 400m just as a fun goal, i assume you'd have to run shorter distances harder with full recovery. And assuming if you do devote that time and energy to running a faster 400, would that benefit your 10k or longer distance races? What are your takes on those.
Haha probably I'm jaded from reading letsrun, but I don't think of 56 as anything too special. Lower mid 50s is what I consider good speed for a distance guy, and sub 50 speed is good speed for a miler/800 guy.
How much will it benefit longer distance? Probably minimally...if at all. Moreso if you want to focus on 800/1500, less of an effect for 5000/10000, and a minimal effect it any for marathon. It's rare for speed to be the limiting factor for distance runners, at least until you have really strong endurance. If you have say low 60s 400 speed, it isn't really an issue at all until you are running something like 2:10, 4:45. 16:30, 34:00.
Nonetheless, it does matter depending on what your goals are. If you want to run much faster than 2:05/4:30/15:30 60s speed for 400 isn't going to cut it.
As for how you improve speed, I don't think coming at it from the angle of 200-300 repeats is especially great. You could prove your 400 that way, but it would be more like speed endurance with minimal carryover to distance. Approaching it from basic speed to the best way to do so. Things like developing good sprint mechanics, drills, plyometrics, explosive, heavy lifitng, short flying sprints (30-60m), short hill sprints, and maybe some 150s/200s working on being explosive but smooth.
It's really something I think any distance runner should incorporate at least some time to during his training cycles, as more speed always opens the door to being able to run faster times, and makes running at a given pace a little more economical as the pace is no longer as demanding mechanically.
I started running last year and stopped during the winter months. I'm back at it after a 3 or so month break. I really lost a lot of endurance. I'm slowly increasing my runs (doing intervals of walk/ run as per c25k) currently at 7 min run/ 3 walk for 30 mins with a 5 min warmup/cd. I repeated my run on Thursday from Wednesday (moved from 5w/5r to 3/7 on Monday), and for some reason I decided to run .5 mph faster than normal, running at 4.5 mph rather than my usual 4 that I have stuck to since I started. I had no problems. I felt fatigued at the en of my run intervals, but no more so than I did at 4 mph; I'm just out of shape.
This leads me to believe that I should be running faster than 4mph regularly, and since I didn't notice much difference between 4 and 4.5, Imight want to go a bit faster yet. I'm asking for some advice about how fast I should be running. What would be normalish for a 6'0 male who is relitivly new? How do I gauge if it's too fast or too slow? I've been running the same speed since I've started, so I have no experience with other paces save for the 30-60 second sprints at the end of my runs.
Oh, and I guess I have a question regarding when to run as well. I typically get to the gym, walk for 5 mins, do my lifting circuit (3 sets of 10 reps on 3 compound lifts) then do four 5 min rounds of heavy bag/calisthenics, before moving onto my run. Is this the correct order to do my workout in, or should I be moving my run to a different place?
On March 23 2014 08:48 Arisen wrote: I started running last year and stopped during the winter months. I'm back at it after a 3 or so month break. I really lost a lot of endurance. I'm slowly increasing my runs (doing intervals of walk/ run as per c25k) currently at 7 min run/ 3 walk for 30 mins with a 5 min warmup/cd. I repeated my run on Thursday from Wednesday (moved from 5w/5r to 3/7 on Monday), and for some reason I decided to run .5 mph faster than normal, running at 4.5 mph rather than my usual 4 that I have stuck to since I started. I had no problems. I felt fatigued at the en of my run intervals, but no more so than I did at 4 mph; I'm just out of shape.
This leads me to believe that I should be running faster than 4mph regularly, and since I didn't notice much difference between 4 and 4.5, Imight want to go a bit faster yet. I'm asking for some advice about how fast I should be running. What would be normalish for a 6'0 male who is relitivly new? How do I gauge if it's too fast or too slow? I've been running the same speed since I've started, so I have no experience with other paces save for the 30-60 second sprints at the end of my runs.
Oh, and I guess I have a question regarding when to run as well. I typically get to the gym, walk for 5 mins, do my lifting circuit (3 sets of 10 reps on 3 compound lifts) then do four 5 min rounds of heavy bag/calisthenics, before moving onto my run. Is this the correct order to do my workout in, or should I be moving my run to a different place?
Thanks
Personally, i think that's all fine. As a beginner, consistency and having fun and just being able to do it everyday is the main thing to focus on. If you're currently liking your routine then it is perfect, if you start to feel dull, the possibly try take the running outside?
On March 23 2014 08:48 Arisen wrote: I started running last year and stopped during the winter months. I'm back at it after a 3 or so month break. I really lost a lot of endurance. I'm slowly increasing my runs (doing intervals of walk/ run as per c25k) currently at 7 min run/ 3 walk for 30 mins with a 5 min warmup/cd. I repeated my run on Thursday from Wednesday (moved from 5w/5r to 3/7 on Monday), and for some reason I decided to run .5 mph faster than normal, running at 4.5 mph rather than my usual 4 that I have stuck to since I started. I had no problems. I felt fatigued at the en of my run intervals, but no more so than I did at 4 mph; I'm just out of shape.
This leads me to believe that I should be running faster than 4mph regularly, and since I didn't notice much difference between 4 and 4.5, Imight want to go a bit faster yet. I'm asking for some advice about how fast I should be running. What would be normalish for a 6'0 male who is relitivly new? How do I gauge if it's too fast or too slow? I've been running the same speed since I've started, so I have no experience with other paces save for the 30-60 second sprints at the end of my runs.
Oh, and I guess I have a question regarding when to run as well. I typically get to the gym, walk for 5 mins, do my lifting circuit (3 sets of 10 reps on 3 compound lifts) then do four 5 min rounds of heavy bag/calisthenics, before moving onto my run. Is this the correct order to do my workout in, or should I be moving my run to a different place?
Thanks
Easy pace is the way to go. That's how you determine what pace you should be running. You know the feeling of easy the same way you know the feeling of hunger, or pain, or thirst. You should feel like it would not be difficult to run at that pace for several hours, and I'd say it's generally just a smidge faster than "So easy it feels like I'm not getting a workout".
In short ask yourself "Is this pace easy". If the answer is no, I'm not sure, it feel okay but sorta fast, moderate, or anything else then the answer to the question is "no", so slow down a bit.
Once you are running consistently 3-4 times a week feeling great, then you can start to play around with the speed. If you are feeling good on a normal run what you can do is gradually just start picking up the pace with about 15 minutes to go and run a "comfortably hard effort" for the remainder. If you still feel like gangbusters with a minute or two to go that pace can ratchet slowly down to a near sprint for the last 10-15s, as long as you DO NOT TIE UP.
Another decent workout once you are running consistently is the fartlek, wherin you just can pick random targets, near or far, and surge towards them. One surge might be a 15s near sprint to a fire hydrant, another could be a steady, strong pace for 4 minutes to that store a kilometer away. Just jog easy between the surges and start a new one whenever you are feeling good.
As far as what is a normal pace for a new 6'0" runner I'd say two things. The first is that height has NOTHING to do with running speed. A 5'0" runner is not any more or less likely to be faster than a 6'2" guy. As far as a normal easy pace for a new runner, I would say anywhere from 7:30 pace to 15:00 pace depending largely on innate talent, activity background, and most importantly weight.
Easy pace is the way to go. That's how you determine what pace you should be running. You know the feeling of easy the same way you know the feeling of hunger, or pain, or thirst. You should feel like it would not be difficult to run at that pace for several hours, and I'd say it's generally just a smidge faster than "So easy it feels like I'm not getting a workout".
Alright, now I'm definitely confused. I...don't think it's possible for me to run at such a pace that I would feel okay running it for hours. There's just no way. Even jogging slower than a walk. Even jogging on the spot. Does that mean I shouldn't be running at all, and should just be going at a brisk walk? And if so, how long would it take me to transition to running?
Easy pace is the way to go. That's how you determine what pace you should be running. You know the feeling of easy the same way you know the feeling of hunger, or pain, or thirst. You should feel like it would not be difficult to run at that pace for several hours, and I'd say it's generally just a smidge faster than "So easy it feels like I'm not getting a workout".
Alright, now I'm definitely confused. I...don't think it's possible for me to run at such a pace that I would feel okay running it for hours. There's just no way. Even jogging slower than a walk. Even jogging on the spot. Does that mean I shouldn't be running at all, and should just be going at a brisk walk? And if so, how long would it take me to transition to running?
Aerobically. Not muscularly. Your legs would certainly get tired from a multi hour effort since you are new to running.
Unless you are really overweight I find it hard to imagine that jogging slowly in place gets you severally winded.
Easy pace is the way to go. That's how you determine what pace you should be running. You know the feeling of easy the same way you know the feeling of hunger, or pain, or thirst. You should feel like it would not be difficult to run at that pace for several hours, and I'd say it's generally just a smidge faster than "So easy it feels like I'm not getting a workout".
Alright, now I'm definitely confused. I...don't think it's possible for me to run at such a pace that I would feel okay running it for hours. There's just no way. Even jogging slower than a walk. Even jogging on the spot. Does that mean I shouldn't be running at all, and should just be going at a brisk walk? And if so, how long would it take me to transition to running?
Aerobically. Not muscularly. Your legs would certainly get tired from a multi hour effort since you are new to running.
Unless you are really overweight I find it hard to imagine that jogging slowly in place gets you severally winded.
I have problems breathing even at the slowest of jogs as well; however I severely doubt it's from my weight (I'm barely overweight at this point). It's hard to explain, but the motion of jogging makes it difficult to breath evenly. I can be walking at 3MPH then switch motions to very slowly jogging and my breathing immediately changes a lot. When I change from running to walking, I don't have that feeling from when you're winded because you were doing hill sprints or something where you can't breathe, you know? My breathing is odd and sometimes I will get a sort of stitch around my appendix area. I really wish I could explain better, but I can't. Maybe I'm doing something very wrong which is making things harder.
The stitch near the appendix is normal I think. I always get that after coming back from a long break. I think it's something to do with lungs just not being trained to handle the extra oxygen intake required while running. After 2-3 weeks it should start going away. For me I never get that anymore but I run 5-6 days a week pretty regularly now.
Even a slow jog you will have to breathe heavier, but you should run at a pace where it would be easy for you to have a conversation while running. That should be your normal training pace, even if it's just a really fast walk at first I would say over time you will be able to slowly build the pace up with regular training.
Easy pace is the way to go. That's how you determine what pace you should be running. You know the feeling of easy the same way you know the feeling of hunger, or pain, or thirst. You should feel like it would not be difficult to run at that pace for several hours, and I'd say it's generally just a smidge faster than "So easy it feels like I'm not getting a workout".
Alright, now I'm definitely confused. I...don't think it's possible for me to run at such a pace that I would feel okay running it for hours. There's just no way. Even jogging slower than a walk. Even jogging on the spot. Does that mean I shouldn't be running at all, and should just be going at a brisk walk? And if so, how long would it take me to transition to running?
Aerobically. Not muscularly. Your legs would certainly get tired from a multi hour effort since you are new to running.
Unless you are really overweight I find it hard to imagine that jogging slowly in place gets you severally winded.
I have problems breathing even at the slowest of jogs as well; however I severely doubt it's from my weight (I'm barely overweight at this point). It's hard to explain, but the motion of jogging makes it difficult to breath evenly. I can be walking at 3MPH then switch motions to very slowly jogging and my breathing immediately changes a lot. When I change from running to walking, I don't have that feeling from when you're winded because you were doing hill sprints or something where you can't breathe, you know? My breathing is odd and sometimes I will get a sort of stitch around my appendix area. I really wish I could explain better, but I can't. Maybe I'm doing something very wrong which is making things harder.
Breathing heavier is normal. I wouldn't expect someone to breath as relaxed and regularly at an easy pace as they would sitting or even walking, as while it is an easy pace it is still much more intense than general movement.
I wouldn't even ask yourself about how you are breathing, but ask "does this feel easy". You can certainly be breathing somewhat rapidly and still have the run be easy. A rough guideline for an easy pace is one breath for each 3 steps, but like anything else this can vary significantly.
3) Discovered Strava. I know I'm probably late to the game on this one, but I'm having lots of fun documenting my runs and snagging CR's on different segments.
Just discovered this. Been having some fun grabbing a few. Currently sitting at #3 in incline descents, and have the fastest time down Ruxton avenue (just sigh of a mile). If I get in better shape I think I'll take a crack at the downhill sub 4, as I'm currently around 4:20 pace with a little more in the tank.
Easy pace is the way to go. That's how you determine what pace you should be running. You know the feeling of easy the same way you know the feeling of hunger, or pain, or thirst. You should feel like it would not be difficult to run at that pace for several hours, and I'd say it's generally just a smidge faster than "So easy it feels like I'm not getting a workout".
Alright, now I'm definitely confused. I...don't think it's possible for me to run at such a pace that I would feel okay running it for hours. There's just no way. Even jogging slower than a walk. Even jogging on the spot. Does that mean I shouldn't be running at all, and should just be going at a brisk walk? And if so, how long would it take me to transition to running?
Aerobically. Not muscularly. Your legs would certainly get tired from a multi hour effort since you are new to running.
Unless you are really overweight I find it hard to imagine that jogging slowly in place gets you severally winded.
Thanks, I started that. I'm still walking/jogging due to my legs, but I'm jogging much longer stretches now, and have controlled, slightly heavier breathing during the jogging portions. Now I just need my legs to adjust to running and I'll be all set.
I improved my PR from september by more than a minute and ran 5 minutes faster than the same race last year (weather was terrible last year though). And I didn't even prepare for a 10k. I had one single fast work-out this year.
I can't wait to crush the 44 and go beyond. But first priority on my list is amassing more mileage for the 31k which is in exactly 4 weeks.
My running has been going reasonable. Continuing to try and eat well, and gradually brining the mileage back. Getting up around 20mpw atm and will be progressing to 30 over the course of this month, at which point I'll probably start one light workout a week.
I'll be racing 2M this Saturday, a 5k at my campus the following Saturday, another 5k late April, and then I guess goal race for this little mini cycle will be Bolder Boulder in May. It's a somewhat hilly, net uphill course; not knowing how I will progress I'd be satisfied with mid 39s, but ideally I'd like to get into 37:xx territory.
On March 30 2014 19:57 Don_Julio wrote: NEW PR, 44:48!!! First time sub 45!
I improved my PR from september by more than a minute and ran 5 minutes faster than the same race last year (weather was terrible last year though). And I didn't even prepare for a 10k. I had one single fast work-out this year.
I can't wait to crush the 44 and go beyond. But first priority on my list is amassing more mileage for the 31k which is in exactly 4 weeks.
Nice work dude, told ya sub 45 was in the bag!
Looking forward to seeing how the 30k race goes for ya. What time were you shooting for again?
For an easy run, how should your breathing go? I'm running at an easy pace and i don't have any SoB when I'm done running, but during the run, the pattern of my breathing is off, and I just can't find a comfortable pattern, and it's leading to discomfort during my run (not pain or anything, I just don't feel right).
I've tried a few different things. I started with 3 steps in, 3 steps out. I've tried 2in, 2 out, 4 in 4 out, 3 in 2 out, and nothing is feeling right.Are there any tricks to find a comfortable breathing pattern any of you could share?
On March 31 2014 10:13 L_Master wrote: My running has been going reasonable. Continuing to try and eat well, and gradually brining the mileage back. Getting up around 20mpw atm and will be progressing to 30 over the course of this month, at which point I'll probably start one light workout a week.
I'll be racing 2M this Saturday, a 5k at my campus the following Saturday, another 5k late April, and then I guess goal race for this little mini cycle will be Bolder Boulder in May. It's a somewhat hilly, net uphill course; not knowing how I will progress I'd be satisfied with mid 39s, but ideally I'd like to get into 37:xx territory.
Good to see you getting back. Do you feel any sensations in your hip? Because I occasionally feel "something" when I give in to the temptation to run a little harder than easy.
On March 30 2014 19:57 Don_Julio wrote: NEW PR, 44:48!!! First time sub 45!
I improved my PR from september by more than a minute and ran 5 minutes faster than the same race last year (weather was terrible last year though). And I didn't even prepare for a 10k. I had one single fast work-out this year.
I can't wait to crush the 44 and go beyond. But first priority on my list is amassing more mileage for the 31k which is in exactly 4 weeks.
Nice work dude, told ya sub 45 was in the bag!
Looking forward to seeing how the 30k race goes for ya. What time were you shooting for again?[/QUOTE]
Thanks. You told me that I should target ~42minutes in my work-outs and this race gave me the confidence to do that.
I want to run faster than 3 hours. I' ll probably be faster but I want to temper my expectations so I can start out at a slow pace and get a feel for a good pace. 31k of constant up and down intimidates me and I want to start the race with my best friend who is slower than me. I'm going to pick up the pace later but won't finish at an optimal time.
On March 31 2014 16:30 Arisen wrote: For an easy run, how should your breathing go? I'm running at an easy pace and i don't have any SoB when I'm done running, but during the run, the pattern of my breathing is off, and I just can't find a comfortable pattern, and it's leading to discomfort during my run (not pain or anything, I just don't feel right).
I've tried a few different things. I started with 3 steps in, 3 steps out. I've tried 2in, 2 out, 4 in 4 out, 3 in 2 out, and nothing is feeling right.Are there any tricks to find a comfortable breathing pattern any of you could share?
Hm, I don't pay any attention to breathing at an easy pace which is probably wrong. I notice that my breathing ends up all over the place sometimes but it's very rythmic and feels natural usually. At tempo run pace I end up with a 2/2 pattern and I think that's my usual pattern, maybe 3/3 sometimes. (That's purely anecdotal and someone else who are more qualified should commentate.)
What happens if you don't pay any attention to your breathing at all if that's possible?
On March 31 2014 16:30 Arisen wrote: For an easy run, how should your breathing go? I'm running at an easy pace and i don't have any SoB when I'm done running, but during the run, the pattern of my breathing is off, and I just can't find a comfortable pattern, and it's leading to discomfort during my run (not pain or anything, I just don't feel right).
I've tried a few different things. I started with 3 steps in, 3 steps out. I've tried 2in, 2 out, 4 in 4 out, 3 in 2 out, and nothing is feeling right.Are there any tricks to find a comfortable breathing pattern any of you could share?
99% you are just massively over-thinking things and in your own head wierding yourself out. Do you have this same thing when playing intensely in sports or while walking?
Your body knows how to breath, trust it to do it's own thing.
Thanks. You told me that I should target ~42minutes in my work-outs and this race gave me the confidence to do that.
I want to run faster than 3 hours. I' ll probably be faster but I want to temper my expectations so I can start out at a slow pace and get a feel for a good pace. 31k of constant up and down intimidates me and I want to start the race with my best friend who is slower than me. I'm going to pick up the pace later but won't finish at an optimal time.
Yea I stand by that, and still think you can run near that from the description of your runs. You can absolutely go under 44 just based off that tempo alone.
As far as the 3 hour "goal" goes...I don't think it's possible for you to not go under 3 hours, considering that 10k you ran is good enough for 2:20. I don't care how hilly the course is, it won't cost you 2+ min/mile. Depending on when you leave your friend you should be shooting for at least 2:30-2:40.
Do you feel any sensations in your hip? Because I occasionally feel "something" when I give in to the temptation to run a little harder than easy.
Not really. Maybe a transient "wierdness" every now and then but that seems to be a mental construct more than anything. It's really easy to do that when you have been "looking" for an injury for so long.
So I've been running about 10 km for 5-6 days a week, having gone up from 8 km per 3 days a week in Winter. In general everything is fine but I've noticed a couple of new developments I dont like. First, I feel much more vulnerable to colds, its sunny and warmish but I am sniffing -- I read that could be a byproduct of overrunning, runing my immune system. Second, I feel a weird soreness in a region between my lower stomach and my groin, its not pain but I am definitely aware that I 'feel' that area where previously I didnt. What the hell is it?
On April 02 2014 05:49 Sub40APM wrote: So I've been running about 10 km for 5-6 days a week, having gone up from 8 km per 3 days a week in Winter. In general everything is fine but I've noticed a couple of new developments I dont like. First, I feel much more vulnerable to colds, its sunny and warmish but I am sniffing -- I read that could be a byproduct of overrunning, runing my immune system. Second, I feel a weird soreness in a region between my lower stomach and my groin, its not pain but I am definitely aware that I 'feel' that area where previously I didnt. What the hell is it?
No idea what the pain is but you should consider running a little less. Recovery is as important the actual workouts. Try to add another rest day and get some more variety for your runs. Maybe one longer run and another shorter instead. Also how fast are you running. It will lead to injury if you run hard everytime. You should run the majority of you mileage with low effort.
Is your diet healthy enough? You don't need a professional athlete's diet. Just make sure to eat something else than junk food, too. Veggies and fruits are important to fight illness.
On April 04 2014 05:47 Advocado wrote: Hello TL runners. Can anyone explain how I would train effectively to run a 5 k in say 23 min ?
More information please. How much do you run? How long have you been running? Any PRs? When do you plan to run the 5k?
On April 04 2014 05:47 Advocado wrote: Hello TL runners. Can anyone explain how I would train effectively to run a 5 k in say 23 min ?
Need background first.
How much do you typically run per week? Weight/Height? Normal Easy run pace? Current race PRs?
1. I don't really follow a set schedule for running. I am normally lifting 2-3 times a week so I put running on hold for a while. Now I wanna get back into it. 2. 178 cm, 78 kg 3. Something like 10 km an hour I suppose. 4. I haven't done much in terms of PR recently so most what I have are outdated. I did 5 km in 27 some time ago though.
Okay if you have't been running much then the first thing we want to do is get you running a little more.
For now start with 2-3 days per week of 2-3 miles. Keep the pace EASY. You should feel like you could sing a few lines comfortably without gasping for breath, and that the pace itself would not be challenging if you had to run for several hours.
Something like this would be appropriate:
Week 1 - 2 runs of 20-30 minutes Week 2 - 3 runs of 20-30 minutes Week 3 - 3 runs of 30 minutes Week 4 - 3-4 runs of 20-30 minutes Week 5 - 2 run of 20 minutes Week 6 - 4 runs of 30 minutes Week 7 - 5 runs of 30 minutes Week 8 - 5-6 runs of 30 minutes
At the end of those runs once or twice a week it's a good idea to do some of what we call strides. To do this just get a roughly 100m section and run at a strong, but not quite sprint pace. If you are really a numbers guy, somewhere between 17-20s for each 100m would be good. Take a full 1-2 minute walk back recovery. Strides should NOT be hard, they are a non-stressful way to get your legs used to turning over faster. 4-6 is a good number
As far as weight goes, since you lift you may or may not have excess weight. If you do, lose it. It helps significantly. Each kg of fat you lose will make you about 2-3 seconds/km faster. So if you lost 5kg, that would translate to about 60s faster over 5k distance.
Once you are through those 8 weeks we can talk about what comes next, which is basically building a little more mileage and adding in some actual workouts.
Ran a really nice 2M race today in 11:56. The course isn't especially fast as it is gravel and has some ups/downs, usually I find what I can run here is about what I can run for a fairly flat road 5k. So basically Should be in around 18:30 shape, maybe a little better.
Pretty pleased with the race overall, as the splits were 5:56, 6:00. Could have pushed a little harder last 800 as I had a pretty big kick with 150 to go, but I was hurting pretty good. Still have trouble convincing myself in races that I can give more even when it hurts a good bit, as there almost always seems to be some in the tank as every race I can crank it hard last 100-200m. Once of these days I'll really nail it where I'm dying right to the line.
Only downside, though it makes the result "better", is that I was like asleep the first 400 and ran it in about 1:36.
I'm honestly a bit shocked to find I'm not that far off pre injury fitness...even though I am about 7 pounds heavier. Definitely feeling VERY bullish on my chances of sub 17 later in the year if I can keep eating nice and clean as I have been.
@5k plan above ^^ : why have a dip in week 5 to 2 runs? Just keeping a steady workout routine for 8 weeks will help get to the 23:00 5k pace (maybe not immediately, but eventually). Being able to do 25-30 minute runs consistently at a pace slightly faster than conversational pace would be a good indicator for 5k fitness.
have a 5k this saturday, unsure how I'll do performance wise. The past 3 weeks have been good 30 mpw average (91.7 miles in my excel sheet), but my legs have been incredibly tired during some of those runs, especially trying to do some speedish workouts or fartlek/"pick up the pace" as opposed to just 30-45 minute constant pace runs.
For instance, I tried to do a 4x1600 with whatever rest in between would feel comfortable (like 2:30) as I read that's a really good indicator of 5k pace on mar 29. On thursday march 16 I did a 3x1600 with long walking rest (5-7 min) and was able to do 5:40 for each of them. So I was hoping to essentially match that or near that, but I gave up the workout after the first run (5:40; should have tried like 6:10 but decided at ~800m I wouldn't be able to do all 4 sets) and just went for about a 3 mile jog back to my apartment.
I am hoping to get a 18:15-18:30. I had an 18:30 on a flat course about 1.5 months ago, and although this is also a flat road race is isn't essentially pancake flat and has ups and downs throughout (last race was a hill at start/end, but flat otherwise).
I should try doing strides more. Sounds like one of the best ways to get legs used to turning over faster without trashing yourself so you can still get a quality workout in the day after.
I'm making great progress, running about 30-35mpw pretty consistently now. I have a half marathon in about a month and pace wise I should be all set to run sub 1:45 maybe even under 1:40 if training goes well over the next few weeks.
@5k plan above ^^ : why have a dip in week 5 to 2 runs? Just keeping a steady workout routine for 8 weeks will help get to the 23:00 5k pace (maybe not immediately, but eventually)
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Because he has been increasing mileage steadily for 4 weeks. Having a cutback week gives the body a chance to recover some and absorb the training increase before jumping up to a higher level.
Being able to do 25-30 minute runs consistently at a pace slightly faster than conversational pace would be a good indicator for 5k fitness.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Almost anything can be used as an indicator of 5k fitness, but some are better than others. It sounds like you are describing something around marathon pace type effort when you say slightly faster than conversational pace.
have a 5k this saturday, unsure how I'll do performance wise. The past 3 weeks have been good 30 mpw average (91.7 miles in my excel sheet), but my legs have been incredibly tired during some of those runs, especially trying to do some speedish workouts or fartlek/"pick up the pace" as opposed to just 30-45 minute constant pace runs.
For instance, I tried to do a 4x1600 with whatever rest in between would feel comfortable (like 2:30) as I read that's a really good indicator of 5k pace on mar 29. On thursday march 16 I did a 3x1600 with long walking rest (5-7 min) and was able to do 5:40 for each of them. So I was hoping to essentially match that or near that, but I gave up the workout after the first run (5:40; should have tried like 6:10 but decided at ~800m I wouldn't be able to do all 4 sets) and just went for about a 3 mile jog back to my apartment.
I'm not a big fan of indicator workouts to be honest, for the purpose of getting an indication of how fast you think you can run. If you are training well you should have a good idea of what you can run, just get in there go out sane through 3k, then race the last last 2k or so.
A workout like 4x1600 with 1-2 min jog recovery (the "classic" 5k predictor if you will) is a really, really taxing effort. It's a good 5k workout, but something I would consider a once or twice a cycle level of difficulty. I'll admit I'm not really sure why you tried to go for 5:40 pace in a workout like that when your current fitness is just 5:57 pace. Thats a dramatic difference, but good on being smart enough to realize it wasn't going to happen that day and having the sense to just bag it and try again on a different day.
I don't have much to go by, but depending on how good/bad of a race that 18:30 was it's definitely possible you are ready to run something a little faster than that.
I should try doing strides more. Sounds like one of the best ways to get legs used to turning over faster without trashing yourself so you can still get a quality workout in the day after.
I'm making great progress, running about 30-35mpw pretty consistently now. I have a half marathon in about a month and pace wise I should be all set to run sub 1:45 maybe even under 1:40 if training goes well over the next few weeks.
Strides are really nice, and it's easy to just put in 4-6 of them after runs, starting at maybe mile pace and rolling on down south of 800 pace. They don't really take anything out of you and at least do something for turnover.
Sounds like the consistency is there, any workouts to report back on?
So I went out for a run the other day as it was one of the first nice enough days in Michigan where I would not freeze my ass off running outside. I ran into a problem though. I have been running on a treadmill and getting a lot better endurance. As soon as I started running outside, though; I went WAY faster than I had been training.
I have been running 12 min/mile pace on the treadmill at a 1% incline to simulate wind resistance (a tip I picked up here). Thinking back on the run, I had a stitch in my side very quickly and the run was very difficult. I realized mid run I was going too fast and tried to back way down. I had a running app running during my run, and when I looked back at it (out of 6 running intervals)
1st Interval: 8 Min/Mile pace 2nd-6th interval: ~9-10 min/Mile pace
I don't know how I was going so fast and not noticing it. I legitimately though during my later run intervals I was going slower than 12 min/mile and I was just tired from the initial interval being way too fast, but not one of the later intervals was slower than 10 mins/mile.
How can I judge how fast I'm going mid run and keep at the correct pace, especially when I can't judge how fast I'm going very well on the fly?
Arisen, judge by effort. If it's easy, your good. If it doesnt feel easy, slow down.
As far as the experience it's commom for newer runners. They tend not to have a sense of pace, and how different paces feel, and when you have run outside it has probably been in an athletic context, with is always 4 or 5 min paces...all of which make it seem like say... 8 pace, is plenty slow.
I should try doing strides more. Sounds like one of the best ways to get legs used to turning over faster without trashing yourself so you can still get a quality workout in the day after.
I'm making great progress, running about 30-35mpw pretty consistently now. I have a half marathon in about a month and pace wise I should be all set to run sub 1:45 maybe even under 1:40 if training goes well over the next few weeks.
Strides are really nice, and it's easy to just put in 4-6 of them after runs, starting at maybe mile pace and rolling on down south of 800 pace. They don't really take anything out of you and at least do something for turnover.
Sounds like the consistency is there, any workouts to report back on?
Yeah my weeks generally are looking like this more or less-
Monday and Wednesdays are my speed days, I'm doing a 2 month running/coaching program with the local running store near my house and generally we'll do some sort of a track workout on Monday, 800/1200/1600 repeats and stuff like that at around 5k pace or something. (current 5k pace is around 6:45/mile) On Wednesdays we usually do hills and/or some sort of fartlek run for 30 minutes followed by a cool down. Generally I will run about 4-5 miles each day on these two days.
Tuesday and Thursday I'll do a similar distance but at a very easy pace, these days are more just like shakeout runs. (9/mile pace or something) sometimes if I feel good I might add something to the end of one of these days.
Saturdays are my long runs, last weekend I did 10 miles at around 8:15/pace which was close to my race pace for a 10 miler I did about a month ago. It was a really hard effort a month ago but I'm starting to ease into being able to hold that and still feel pretty controlled and strong at the end. My goal is to get through my half at around that pace, May 10th at Harper's Ferry WV, I think the course is going to be pretty hilly though which is a bit scary, I don't h ave many good places to train hills in my area, I have to drive somewhere to run any decent hills.
Friday is gym day I'll do about an hour each of lifting and abs/core workouts. Sunday is usually off.
I like the training schedule overall, even if it is very 5k/10k oriented. A little more tempo work in there would be good but you can't go too wrong doing what you are doing.
I'm not sure how your 10M PR is as slow as it is. 10M in 7:30 pace should be a walk in the park for you, in fact that should be within range for a half. You won't have any difficulty running sub 8 pace in the half even if there are crazy hills.
I've always seemed to run "slower" than I should over longer distances. For some reason I scale a bit worse than average or something, maybe its partially a mental block, or maybe I just naturally am better over shorter distances but have a shitty vo2 max or something for stuff beyond 10-15 minutes.
like my 800 PR(ran last summer) was around a 2:30 which probably means I should be running sub 20 5k's with no trouble but I've never actually broken 20 minutes.
On April 09 2014 12:53 LuckyFool wrote: I've always seemed to run "slower" than I should over longer distances. For some reason I scale a bit worse than average or something, maybe its partially a mental block, or maybe I just naturally am better over shorter distances but have a shitty vo2 max or something for stuff beyond 10-15 minutes.
like my 800 PR(ran last summer) was around a 2:30 which probably means I should be running sub 20 5k's with no trouble but I've never actually broken 20 minutes.
800 especially can be run quick, especially if you have some speed. 2:30 is in line with 5:40/19:45 or so, but as would be expected for a newer runner the strength isn't their yet to run as well over 5k and up, but it won't create the massive drop off you are talking about from 5k to half.
Every now and then I get to starting my run and just feel super energetic and decide to forgo my usual distance running training and put in a 5k. Been steadily improving on time without really training specifically for it, and today I finally broke 21:30. Finished up with a 21:25 which, while I am happy with, I lost it at around 4.6km.
I was hoping to break 20 this year, and from my gains, I will probably break 21. I think 20 might be out of reach just yet without actually training for it.
On the distance side, since my HM attempts last year ended in periods of sporadic walking I was able to drop 15 minutes off my time without to much trouble(2hr7min was my best from last year). Normally I don't go the whole distance ( usually just 15k, at a nice slow 1hr20-30min pace ), so who is to say what kind of time I might produce when I eventually do my first HM of the year.
Still a few months off, but my progress over the winter has been pretty promising, I am really looking forward to this years race season. The part I am probably most happy about, is that I have been entirely symptom free for a while now, no lingering pain in the joints no knee spasms, no foot arch cramps, everything just feels so clean, it makes what I do so much more enjoyable.
One question I have for you distance guys, or runners in general I suppose, if I try to run at a 5:30/km or slower pace, my calves seem to get really tight, it feels like I have trouble going that slow in general, like if I attempt to slow down from there i end up wasting alot of energy doing so, and that I am only running from my calves and not anywhere else. Not sure if it's just a stride problem? I am 6'4 and have fairly long legs, and I try to take short quick steps, but if I run naturally it just seems that I am always going faster than that. It makes the longer runs I do a little more difficult I guess.
That's entirely mental. You can always pick up the pace with just 400 to go, so there is even more time you can shave "for free" off that 5k.
If these 5k's have just been time trials by yourself I'd be feeling very, very good about breaking 20 by the end of the year even if you don't add in the speedwork. Just getting in a good race with people to compete against will probably shave you a good 20+ seconds.
As far as the half goes, LuckyFool is just a little quicker than you right now so similar stuff applies. You could probably crack 1:40 in the half with a little bit of focus on that. Under 1:45 is a lock.
One question I have for you distance guys, or runners in general I suppose, if I try to run at a 5:30/km or slower pace, my calves seem to get really tight, it feels like I have trouble going that slow in general, like if I attempt to slow down from there i end up wasting alot of energy doing so, and that I am only running from my calves and not anywhere else. Not sure if it's just a stride problem? I am 6'4 and have fairly long legs, and I try to take short quick steps, but if I run naturally it just seems that I am always going faster than that. It makes the longer runs I do a little more difficult I guess.
Given your 5k fitness, 5:20/k should be roughly your sweet spot for easy runs. Anything slower should feel very easy. If you feel like you are running only from your calves at slower than 5:30/k you are just altering your form a little bit. Make sure you are engaging the same muscles as normal, especially the glutes.
Last little workout today before Bash the Bluffs on Saturday. Cutdown workout going 1200, 2x800, 2x400, 2x200, 2:30 jog after the 1200, 2:00 jogs after the 800s, then 90s between everything else.
4:23, 2:51, 2:48, 80, 77, 34, 32.
The two 800s were pretty tough, but the rest of it was comfortable...or at least as comfortable as you can be in a speed session.
On April 05 2014 08:22 L_Master wrote: Okay if you have't been running much then the first thing we want to do is get you running a little more.
For now start with 2-3 days per week of 2-3 miles. Keep the pace EASY. You should feel like you could sing a few lines comfortably without gasping for breath, and that the pace itself would not be challenging if you had to run for several hours.
Something like this would be appropriate:
Week 1 - 2 runs of 20-30 minutes Week 2 - 3 runs of 20-30 minutes Week 3 - 3 runs of 30 minutes Week 4 - 3-4 runs of 20-30 minutes Week 5 - 2 run of 20 minutes Week 6 - 4 runs of 30 minutes Week 7 - 5 runs of 30 minutes Week 8 - 5-6 runs of 30 minutes
At the end of those runs once or twice a week it's a good idea to do some of what we call strides. To do this just get a roughly 100m section and run at a strong, but not quite sprint pace. If you are really a numbers guy, somewhere between 17-20s for each 100m would be good. Take a full 1-2 minute walk back recovery. Strides should NOT be hard, they are a non-stressful way to get your legs used to turning over faster. 4-6 is a good number
As far as weight goes, since you lift you may or may not have excess weight. If you do, lose it. It helps significantly. Each kg of fat you lose will make you about 2-3 seconds/km faster. So if you lost 5kg, that would translate to about 60s faster over 5k distance.
Once you are through those 8 weeks we can talk about what comes next, which is basically building a little more mileage and adding in some actual workouts.
Hey - thanks for the response. Just did my first run in 30 min. Running in an urban enviroment so there's a few stops that have me just standing around watching to run. Details: km. 4.59 Km/per hour 9.18 Min per km: 6:32 Kj: 593.1
Did two rounds of short strides. Felt weird so I need to look it up a bit. Felt kinda out of breath at the end. I definitely have excess weight that I could lose, so I need to drop the after work/school snacks.
Did two rounds of short strides. Felt weird so I need to look it up a bit. Felt kinda out of breath at the end. I definitely have excess weight that I could lose, so I need to drop the after work/school snacks.
Oh, you should feel like you are breathing more at the end of a stride. What I mean by not hard is that your legs shouldn't be tying up from exertion, and you shouldn't be "hurting" during them the same way you would if you ran too hard for too long, that feeling of the lungs burning and body crying out to stop.
Breathing heavily is fine, they are borderline sprinty so that's going to require a little more breathing. Just make sure your back to normal relaxed breathing baseline before the next one.
So, I was running today and everything was going fine, until I got this stinging pain lower right stomach. I wasn't even tired, and I felt I could keep going, but the pain nevertheless returned, thus I had to stop early.
How do I prevent it? I wasn't even running that fast, so my pace probably didn't have anything to do with it. It just happened suddenly.
On April 11 2014 17:25 Bunn wrote: So, I was running today and everything was going fine, until I got this stinging pain lower right stomach. I wasn't even tired, and I felt I could keep going, but the pain nevertheless returned, thus I had to stop early.
How do I prevent it? I wasn't even running that fast, so my pace probably didn't have anything to do with it. It just happened suddenly.
Sounds like stitches. It comes from breathing more air in than you're breathing out, ie you're running too fast or your breathing is out of rythm.
You prevent this with slowing down. The "easy pace" that we're always talking about in this thread means that it should feel easy aerobically. If I really want to run as fast that it's taxing aerobically (which is only recommended to do ocassionally) and I get stitches I force myself too breathe out more than I breathe in. It usually results in slowing down, too.
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So I wasn't able to run for a week because I stepped onto a stump of bamboo and I now have a hole in my backfoot. I hope I can run again in a few days. It's really stupid and I'm angry about it because my 31k is only two weeks away and I planned to have some crucial runs this weekend to prepare accordingly. Nothing I can do about it though. I was cycling once for two hours but it's just soooo boring.
On April 10 2014 01:01 LagLovah wrote: One question I have for you distance guys, or runners in general I suppose, if I try to run at a 5:30/km or slower pace, my calves seem to get really tight, it feels like I have trouble going that slow in general, like if I attempt to slow down from there i end up wasting alot of energy doing so, and that I am only running from my calves and not anywhere else. Not sure if it's just a stride problem?
Ha!
I know exactly what you mean/are feeling. I, too, simply can't jog and feel good after 1-2 miles. I think what is really happening is that when I'm slowing down intentionally to jogging/sub-jogging pace (where it doesn't feel like "running" anymore) I tend to focus too much on good running form. Good running form takes MORE muscular work to maintain at slow speeds, and I end up trashing my legs (have tried to run with wife to encourage her on her 10-12 minute miles and really hurt afterwards).
On April 11 2014 17:25 Bunn wrote: So, I was running today and everything was going fine, until I got this stinging pain lower right stomach. I wasn't even tired, and I felt I could keep going, but the pain nevertheless returned, thus I had to stop early.
How do I prevent it? I wasn't even running that fast, so my pace probably didn't have anything to do with it. It just happened suddenly.
Don_Julio is correct, this sounds very much like a running stitch. Only worry about it if it persists on your next run. Did you eat anything that would have sat poorly before running, because that's definitely another way to have a bad running day stitches/GI-wise.
On April 11 2014 19:09 Don_Julio wrote: So I wasn't able to run for a week because I stepped onto a stump of bamboo and I now have a hole in my backfoot. I hope I can run again in a few days. It's really stupid and I'm angry about it because my 31k is only two weeks away and I planned to have some crucial runs this weekend to prepare accordingly. Nothing I can do about it though. I was cycling once for two hours but it's just soooo boring.
Oh, man, tell me about it! I was on vacation last week in Portland, OR, and over-trained a bit on hills and cement. I now have a Achilles tendon issue, and am taking it as easy as possible in order to still have a chance of beating L_Master in the Bolder Boulder. Boring, stupid setback, but we're just going to have to do the smart thing and carefully rest up/cross train.
On April 10 2014 04:47 L_Master wrote: Last little workout today before Bash the Bluffs on Saturday. Cutdown workout going 1200, 2x800, 2x400, 2x200, 2:30 jog after the 1200, 2:00 jogs after the 800s, then 90s between everything else.
4:23, 2:51, 2:48, 80, 77, 34, 32.
The two 800s were pretty tough, but the rest of it was comfortable...or at least as comfortable as you can be in a speed session.
Thanks man! It's a super hilly race, with about 450' of gain and 450' of loss over 5k. Main gameplan is just to compete for the win since I am pseudo defending champ (won in '12, couldn't race in 13' due to injury). Even if some guy shows up that is a solid low 17 or 16 guy I'll probably go out with em and just hang on as long as I can.
If it ends up being a solo run, then I'd be okay with anything 20-20:30 range, and anything under 20 would be a good result. Still to heavy to run well on hills...and I was never good at them to begin with.
Oh, man, tell me about it! I was on vacation last week in Portland, OR, and over-trained a bit on hills and cement. I now have a Achilles tendon issue, and am taking it as easy as possible in order to still have a chance of beating L_Master in the Bolder Boulder. Boring, stupid setback, but we're just going to have to do the smart thing and carefully rest up/cross train.
I've had an achilles flare up a couple times before. What I find really works is stretching, as long as it isn't pain free; and more importantly eccentric calf drops. I don't know why, but those work magnificently. For stretching I just do the standard calf wall stretch with 45s hold 3-4x a day and the achilles specific version with bent trail leg (+ Show Spoiler [bent leg] +
PS: If you wanna make it really a true head to head race I'll be in the AA wave as I'm also competing with some of my teammates, but we are starting in the AA wave as one guy doesn't have the "A" standard. + Show Spoiler +
Back from a 5k, I think ~18:17 on my watch (so maybe 18:15-18:20 chip time).
Timewise, it's good in that I improved from my last race and this course had some rolling "hills" (though true hilly courses from cross country days or people not just doing east-coast city running would scoff at it), but the first 1/2 of the course was a small incline on average I suppose. I hit my technical goal of the 18:15-18:30 range.
Racewise, I was mentally weak. Although my general goal is basically continued improvement on every race, my heart "really" wanted to aim about 18:00-18:07. I went out too fast and died at the 3200 mark; my split was about 11:25 rather than 11:35 or so needed. Or maybe I just didn't push myself the last mile, as the race ended on a small downhill and I had a surprisingly good kick. Lack of mental strength lost me a 18:10 time. Poor race management probably cost me a 18:05 time (assuming mental strength is there too). The pack of 3 people that passed me slightly after the 3200 finished near (edit: actually they did make 17:45) or so, i.e. they maintained the pace. I always run positive splits so they probably would have edged me out, but this race was too much of a difference in pace.
I don't think I felt it in particular but I did have about 15 hours of sleep the prior 72 hours to the race, and that won't happen again.
This was also the race I had been targetting for, not sure when my next race will be. I'll probably shoot for something in late june or july.
Also random side note, I was doing striders and some guy (uhm upper middle aged, I think he is either a cross country coach or a "coach" for a casual runner's group in the city) said "doing pickups?" since I ran by him pretty speedily
I never heard people call striders as "pickups" before and I wonder if that's a regional/geographic dialect thing or a generation gap thing or whatnot. I find differences in dialects and such pretty interesting, just as a random aside.
Where I live now, there is a trail that goes along a river, so I'm going to try to run there instead of treadmills on nice days. I don't think I have my motivation to try to improve myself as much as possible... I just want to maintain a reasonable level of fitness... I never really did like running :p
Decent race today. 5 guys from the UCCS college team showed up to roll, so winning was out the door pretty much from the start. Miles 1 and 3 are rolling hills, mile 2 is stupid with about 300 feet of gain and of loss. Went out a little too easy the first mile saving some for the second mile, still struggled second mile because I'm still too heavy for hills and with only just starting to run some mileage don't have the strength for them. Third mile rallied back reasonably well...but still didn't really commit fully and push HARD.
Ended up in about 19:45, probably could have found another 15-20 seconds if I had really run ideally. Pretty satisfied overall though, it's faster than I ran here in shape 2 years ago, and knowing my general suckage on hilly courses I feel pretty confident about being able to go 18:00-18:20 on a fairly flat course.
Next race is a 5k april 27th, then a collegiate meet 5000 or 1500 (undecided yet) on May 11, then Bolder Boulder on the 26th.
I woke up on the usual time, but as the day before I didn't feel like running (skipped a day). Nevertheless, I gathered all my willpower and for it anyways. That didn't turn out well at all. I felt like there was a mental and physical block that prevented me from running. I only managed to run 5 minutes until I felt like my body doesn't want to go anymore. Last week I managed 16 minutes non-stop and felt like I could keep on going, but today was a far cry from that. I'm so disappointed. :/
EDIT: After further investigation it may have something to do with what I eat. I usually go for a run without eating and drinking first, so that probably is the cause of my low energy. I also read that I should eat some slowly digestible food the night before (I've never given eating much thought).
On April 14 2014 15:48 Bunn wrote: I woke up on the usual time, but as the day before I didn't feel like running (skipped a day). Nevertheless, I gathered all my willpower and for it anyways. That didn't turn out well at all. I felt like there was a mental and physical block that prevented me from running. I only managed to run 5 minutes until I felt like my body doesn't want to go anymore. Last week I managed 16 minutes non-stop and felt like I could keep on going, but today was a far cry from that. I'm so disappointed. :/
EDIT: After further investigation it may have something to do with what I eat. I usually go for a run without eating and drinking first, so that probably is the cause of my low energy. I also read that I should eat some slowly digestible food the night before (I've never given eating much thought).
This sucks but your next run will be better. Even the best runners have bad days.
Yeah, food is quite important. You don't need to bother too much with what you eat the night before, yet. But you should absolutely eat before (but not too close to) your runs. A bowl of cereals with milk (if you aren't lactose intolerant ofc) or some bread with whatever you like works fine. Don't eat too much though. Same for drinking. I stop drinking and eating about an hour or half an hour before my runs or else my stomach rebels.
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I continued running today. I still felt the hole in my foot and it was getting a little uncomfortable at the 50minute mark but I'm sure that it will have healed enough to run the 30k race in two weeks. I missed about 5 training sessions or 70km because of the accident and it really affected me today when I tried to run at a faster pace for the 2nd half.
Thanks man! It's a super hilly race, with about 450' of gain and 450' of loss over 5k. Main gameplan is just to compete for the win since I am pseudo defending champ (won in '12, couldn't race in 13' due to injury). Even if some guy shows up that is a solid low 17 or 16 guy I'll probably go out with em and just hang on as long as I can.
If it ends up being a solo run, then I'd be okay with anything 20-20:30 range, and anything under 20 would be a good result. Still to heavy to run well on hills...and I was never good at them to begin with.
I know how that goes! My pride race has been the Peach Festival 5K up in Fort Collins, 3rd 3 years ago, 2nd 2 years ago, 1st last year. The sad thing is that my times have been getting slower each time...
Looks like you did very well, anyway, from your post and time! It's early in the racing season to have that Killer Instinct coming in at full strength.
I've had an achilles flare up a couple times before. What I find really works is stretching, as long as it isn't pain free; and more importantly eccentric calf drops. I don't know why, but those work magnificently. For stretching I just do the standard calf wall stretch with 45s hold 3-4x a day and the achilles specific version with bent trail leg http://orangeinsoles.com/img/cms/articles-img/Achilles Tendon-4.gif
You'll probably be good to go in a couple days or less unless you REALLY overdid it with pissing off the achilles.
Thanks for the advice on the achilles. I've been taking it really easy (read: no running) and stretching out this past week and will try to do some pool running tonight to stretch it out before a test run tomorrow.
PS: If you wanna make it really a true head to head race I'll be in the AA wave as I'm also competing with some of my teammates, but we are starting in the AA wave as one guy doesn't have the "A" standard.
I'll check around and see if any of my guys is AA. If so, there might be a massed start of A-qualified AA-running peoples!
Thanks man! It's a super hilly race, with about 450' of gain and 450' of loss over 5k. Main gameplan is just to compete for the win since I am pseudo defending champ (won in '12, couldn't race in 13' due to injury). Even if some guy shows up that is a solid low 17 or 16 guy I'll probably go out with em and just hang on as long as I can.
If it ends up being a solo run, then I'd be okay with anything 20-20:30 range, and anything under 20 would be a good result. Still to heavy to run well on hills...and I was never good at them to begin with.
I know how that goes! My pride race has been the Peach Festival 5K up in Fort Collins, 3rd 3 years ago, 2nd 2 years ago, 1st last year. The sad thing is that my times have been getting slower each time...
Looks like you did very well, anyway, from your post and time! It's early in the racing season to have that Killer Instinct coming in at full strength.
I've had an achilles flare up a couple times before. What I find really works is stretching, as long as it isn't pain free; and more importantly eccentric calf drops. I don't know why, but those work magnificently. For stretching I just do the standard calf wall stretch with 45s hold 3-4x a day and the achilles specific version with bent trail leg http://orangeinsoles.com/img/cms/articles-img/Achilles Tendon-4.gif
You'll probably be good to go in a couple days or less unless you REALLY overdid it with pissing off the achilles.
Thanks for the advice on the achilles. I've been taking it really easy (read: no running) and stretching out this past week and will try to do some pool running tonight to stretch it out before a test run tomorrow.
PS: If you wanna make it really a true head to head race I'll be in the AA wave as I'm also competing with some of my teammates, but we are starting in the AA wave as one guy doesn't have the "A" standard.
I'll check around and see if any of my guys is AA. If so, there might be a massed start of A-qualified AA-running peoples!
I can't remember if I mentioned it before, but in a couple months when I have a little more mileage in me; myself, a few guys from my running group here in the Springs, and maybe a couple of guys from the UCCS squad are gonna hit up the famous "Mags" CU long run route in Bolder. If you'd be interested in joining us for that feel free.
Also, I believe you mentioned considering the ascent. If you are ever gonna be down here planning to do the Peak let me know!
On April 15 2014 01:29 Don_Julio wrote: I continued running today. I still felt the hole in my foot and it was getting a little uncomfortable at the 50minute mark but I'm sure that it will have healed enough to run the 30k race in two weeks. I missed about 5 training sessions or 70km because of the accident and it really affected me today when I tried to run at a faster pace for the 2nd half.
Here's hoping you'll bounce back faster than you expect. Really bad timing with the bamboo, though, sucks!
Ypang still running Boston next week? Haven't heard an update from him in a while, the big day is coming up!!
I'm planning a strong workout on Saturday (3 weeks out from half marathon) instead of an easy long run my coach recommended to do a 10 mile tempo run- 2 miles easy, 6 miles just under race pace, 2 miles recovery. My target race pace for the half is 8/mile (basically a 1:45 total time) so I'm going to shoot to keep things under 8/mile for the middle portion of my workout on Saturday. Feeling good, no injuries or aches or anything which is really nice.
On April 17 2014 13:58 LuckyFool wrote: Ypang still running Boston next week? Haven't heard an update from him in a while, the big day is coming up!!
I'm planning a strong workout on Saturday (3 weeks out from half marathon) instead of an easy long run my coach recommended to do a 10 mile tempo run- 2 miles easy, 6 miles just under race pace, 2 miles recovery. My target race pace for the half is 8/mile (basically a 1:45 total time) so I'm going to shoot to keep things under 8/mile for the middle portion of my workout on Saturday. Feeling good, no injuries or aches or anything which is really nice.
That's not a bad variation, but 3x3M is really nice too. Maybe 2:00-3:00 easy rest between each. You can get more work in at half pace that way, though it is a fairly tough workout. Get through that under control and you are definitely in shape for whatever your avg time was.
So, I had a small pain (pain probably isn't the right word, here; Really more of a mild discomfort) where my femur meets with my hip on the right side a few days back after a run. There wasn't a sudden moment of "oh this hurts, now," but I did feel discomfort afterwards. It went away within a day or so.
Cut to last night and I'm doing some yoga before bed, and I get that same feeling in my hip (I don't know what to call the area, so I'm just going to go with hip until someone corrects me.) I woke up this morning and went for my walk (1 hour at moderate pace (3.5 mph or so avg pace). I was uncomfortable the entire time because of this feeling in my hip. I did some stretches that open up the hips after I got done with breakfast (lizard, reclined pidgeon, reclined godess, etc,) and it seemed to make things better, but I'm still aware of the discomfort there.
Now, it's not so bad that I can't do anything on it, but I'm not sure if this is a precursor to a pull or something worse, and I don't want to aggravate any problems. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing that can tell me if this is serious or not, and If I'm OK to keep doing what I'm doing (walk an hour every morning, run 3 times/week?)
[QUOTE]On April 17 2014 23:49 Arisen wrote: So, I had a small pain (pain probably isn't the right word, here; Really more of a mild discomfort) where my femur meets with my hip on the right side a few days back after a run. There wasn't a sudden moment of "oh this hurts, now," but I did feel discomfort afterwards. It went away within a day or so.
Cut to last night and I'm doing some yoga before bed, and I get that same feeling in my hip (I don't know what to call the area, so I'm just going to go with hip until someone corrects me.) I woke up this morning and went for my walk (1 hour at moderate pace (3.5 mph or so avg pace). I was uncomfortable the entire time because of this feeling in my hip. I did some stretches that open up the hips after I got done with breakfast (lizard, reclined pidgeon, reclined godess, etc,) and it seemed to make things better, but I'm still aware of the discomfort there.
Now, it's not so bad that I can't do anything on it, but I'm not sure if this is a precursor to a pull or something worse, and I don't want to aggravate any problems. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing that can tell me if this is serious or not, and If I'm OK to keep doing what I'm doing (walk an hour every morning, run 3 times/week?)
Thanks for the help[/QUOTE
DO NOT FUCK WITH THE HIP
Okay, I'm probably biased on the paranoid side...but I lost 20 months to that nonsense. Honestly, there are some hip issues you can run through, and some you definitely cannot. I would say just rest, or do a form of cross-training where you absolutely cannot tell your hip is agitated at all.
The problem with the hip is that about 15-20 injures can cause pain/discomfort there, and it's pretty tricky to find out which one is the culprit. If you have the time to do all the research and figure it out then go for it and maybe it's something you can run with; but otherwise I'd certainly suggest playing it safe.
On April 17 2014 23:49 Arisen wrote: So, I had a small pain (pain probably isn't the right word, here; Really more of a mild discomfort) where my femur meets with my hip on the right side a few days back after a run. There wasn't a sudden moment of "oh this hurts, now," but I did feel discomfort afterwards. It went away within a day or so.
Cut to last night and I'm doing some yoga before bed, and I get that same feeling in my hip (I don't know what to call the area, so I'm just going to go with hip until someone corrects me.) I woke up this morning and went for my walk (1 hour at moderate pace (3.5 mph or so avg pace). I was uncomfortable the entire time because of this feeling in my hip. I did some stretches that open up the hips after I got done with breakfast (lizard, reclined pidgeon, reclined godess, etc,) and it seemed to make things better, but I'm still aware of the discomfort there.
Now, it's not so bad that I can't do anything on it, but I'm not sure if this is a precursor to a pull or something worse, and I don't want to aggravate any problems. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing that can tell me if this is serious or not, and If I'm OK to keep doing what I'm doing (walk an hour every morning, run 3 times/week?)
Thanks for the help
DO NOT FUCK WITH THE HIP
Okay, I'm probably biased on the paranoid side...but I lost 20 months to that nonsense. Honestly, there are some hip issues you can run through, and some you definitely cannot. I would say just rest, or do a form of cross-training where you absolutely cannot tell your hip is agitated at all.
The problem with the hip is that about 15-20 injures can cause pain/discomfort there, and it's pretty tricky to find out which one is the culprit. If you have the time to do all the research and figure it out then go for it and maybe it's something you can run with; but otherwise I'd certainly suggest playing it safe.
I'm not finding much online. As you said, it's hard to pin down the one you might have because a lot of the symptoms are similar. The closest I've found so far is a hip flexor strain. I've tried to figure out some things to help me pinpoint what I might have, and I'll I can come up with right now is that I only get discomfort moving my leg forward/up. If I lay flat on the floor, raising my right leg causes almost immediate discomfort, but I can move the leg back without any discomfort and am fine on the other side.
Also, If I lay flat on the floor, and bring both feet up so the soles are facing flat on the floor (knees raised), and then let my left knee fall to the side; I can move my right knee the opposite direction (reclined goddess pose) normally, however, if I bring that knee to meet my left knee, I have WICKED tightness in my ass, the inside of my thigh, and my hamstrings. Thanks for the help so far. I'll skip my run tomorrow till things die down. Should I still be fine to walk at a brisk pace?
On April 17 2014 23:49 Arisen wrote: So, I had a small pain (pain probably isn't the right word, here; Really more of a mild discomfort) where my femur meets with my hip on the right side a few days back after a run. There wasn't a sudden moment of "oh this hurts, now," but I did feel discomfort afterwards. It went away within a day or so.
Cut to last night and I'm doing some yoga before bed, and I get that same feeling in my hip (I don't know what to call the area, so I'm just going to go with hip until someone corrects me.) I woke up this morning and went for my walk (1 hour at moderate pace (3.5 mph or so avg pace). I was uncomfortable the entire time because of this feeling in my hip. I did some stretches that open up the hips after I got done with breakfast (lizard, reclined pidgeon, reclined godess, etc,) and it seemed to make things better, but I'm still aware of the discomfort there.
Now, it's not so bad that I can't do anything on it, but I'm not sure if this is a precursor to a pull or something worse, and I don't want to aggravate any problems. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing that can tell me if this is serious or not, and If I'm OK to keep doing what I'm doing (walk an hour every morning, run 3 times/week?)
Thanks for the help
DO NOT FUCK WITH THE HIP
Okay, I'm probably biased on the paranoid side...but I lost 20 months to that nonsense. Honestly, there are some hip issues you can run through, and some you definitely cannot. I would say just rest, or do a form of cross-training where you absolutely cannot tell your hip is agitated at all.
The problem with the hip is that about 15-20 injures can cause pain/discomfort there, and it's pretty tricky to find out which one is the culprit. If you have the time to do all the research and figure it out then go for it and maybe it's something you can run with; but otherwise I'd certainly suggest playing it safe.
I'm not finding much online. As you said, it's hard to pin down the one you might have because a lot of the symptoms are similar. The closest I've found so far is a hip flexor strain. I've tried to figure out some things to help me pinpoint what I might have, and I'll I can come up with right now is that I only get discomfort moving my leg forward/up. If I lay flat on the floor, raising my right leg causes almost immediate discomfort, but I can move the leg back without any discomfort and am fine on the other side.
Also, If I lay flat on the floor, and bring both feet up so the soles are facing flat on the floor (knees raised), and then let my left knee fall to the side; I can move my right knee the opposite direction (reclined goddess pose) normally, however, if I bring that knee to meet my left knee, I have WICKED tightness in my ass, the inside of my thigh, and my hamstrings. Thanks for the help so far. I'll skip my run tomorrow till things die down. Should I still be fine to walk at a brisk pace?
Haha it's a litany
Strain ( at least 10 possible muscles)
Bursitis
Tendonitis
Femoral Acetubular Impingement
Femoral Neck Sfx
Avascular Necrosis
Sciatic
Other back related issues referring to the hip
Osteoitis Pubis
Sports Hernia
Labral Tear with or without impingement
Cartilage Irregularities
Avulsion Fracture
Sacroilliac Joint Issues
You can probably rule out like half or more pretty quick, but that gives you an idea of things that can cause groin/hip pain. I could easily list another 10+. It's just a bitch to diagnose because so much stuff crosses and pain is very easily referred to various places. You can have problems in your lower leg or back causing groin pain...
Walking should be fine, provided it doesn't hurt or make you feel overly stiff afterwords.
On April 17 2014 23:49 Arisen wrote: So, I had a small pain (pain probably isn't the right word, here; Really more of a mild discomfort) where my femur meets with my hip on the right side a few days back after a run. There wasn't a sudden moment of "oh this hurts, now," but I did feel discomfort afterwards. It went away within a day or so.
Cut to last night and I'm doing some yoga before bed, and I get that same feeling in my hip (I don't know what to call the area, so I'm just going to go with hip until someone corrects me.) I woke up this morning and went for my walk (1 hour at moderate pace (3.5 mph or so avg pace). I was uncomfortable the entire time because of this feeling in my hip. I did some stretches that open up the hips after I got done with breakfast (lizard, reclined pidgeon, reclined godess, etc,) and it seemed to make things better, but I'm still aware of the discomfort there.
Now, it's not so bad that I can't do anything on it, but I'm not sure if this is a precursor to a pull or something worse, and I don't want to aggravate any problems. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing that can tell me if this is serious or not, and If I'm OK to keep doing what I'm doing (walk an hour every morning, run 3 times/week?)
Thanks for the help
DO NOT FUCK WITH THE HIP
Okay, I'm probably biased on the paranoid side...but I lost 20 months to that nonsense. Honestly, there are some hip issues you can run through, and some you definitely cannot. I would say just rest, or do a form of cross-training where you absolutely cannot tell your hip is agitated at all.
The problem with the hip is that about 15-20 injures can cause pain/discomfort there, and it's pretty tricky to find out which one is the culprit. If you have the time to do all the research and figure it out then go for it and maybe it's something you can run with; but otherwise I'd certainly suggest playing it safe.
I'm not finding much online. As you said, it's hard to pin down the one you might have because a lot of the symptoms are similar. The closest I've found so far is a hip flexor strain. I've tried to figure out some things to help me pinpoint what I might have, and I'll I can come up with right now is that I only get discomfort moving my leg forward/up. If I lay flat on the floor, raising my right leg causes almost immediate discomfort, but I can move the leg back without any discomfort and am fine on the other side.
Also, If I lay flat on the floor, and bring both feet up so the soles are facing flat on the floor (knees raised), and then let my left knee fall to the side; I can move my right knee the opposite direction (reclined goddess pose) normally, however, if I bring that knee to meet my left knee, I have WICKED tightness in my ass, the inside of my thigh, and my hamstrings. Thanks for the help so far. I'll skip my run tomorrow till things die down. Should I still be fine to walk at a brisk pace?
Just ending a nightmare 10 weeks of rehabbing various injuries caused by continuing to run, train and play soccer on a strained hip flexor. Compensation caused strains in the hamstring tendon, piriformis and the sartorious. Couple of those muscles I didn't even know existed before hurting them. My physical therapist said don't mess around with hip flexor injuries. Running around on them before they are ready, especially lateral movement, can really screw you up.
Use a foam roller to try and loosen up the spot and get blood flowing to the area Ice cup massage the area for 5 minutes 2-3 times per day if you can
While swimming is the best way to rehab and keep fit, the bike is decent. Just make sure to stop if you feel any discomfort.
Wierdest workout ever today. Wanted to do 4-5xMile w/2:30 or so recovery.
Legs felt about as heavy, sluggish, and dead as I have felt in a long time; however mechanically the pace felt joggish if anything. Then to add to the contradictions, the repeats felt difficult while doing them, yet I felt recovered almost immediately on completion of them, and at the end felt like I could do the whole workout again. It's possible I let my heavy legs affect my mindset and puss out a bit.
Ended up doing 3xMile, 600 in 6:14, 6:07, 5:56, 2:07; rest was 2:30 between miles, and 2:00 before the 600. Pretty windy, probably 15 mph or so.
Do you determine your pace according to effort only? I always have to check my 200m times because I'm a noob at finding the pace I want to run.
Six days until the big day. Ran 25k last wednesday which I probably ran a little too fast so recovery took a little longer than I wanted. Eating the gels worked well. Had another 14k hill workout today which was absolutely necessary as it was harder aerobically than I remembered. I guess the stupid 10 days of not running mostly effected that part. I don't feel the hole in my foot anymore. The deeper tissue seems to have completely healed. The skin is still missing but doesn't effect my running. _____
There's a livestream for the Boston Marathon in some countries if anyone wants to watch it: http://watchlive.baa.org/
Hall really needs a good run here, or he will be fading hard into irrelevancy. Meb has a good shot at top 5, even if the field is dang strong; guy is a darn good racer and seems fit judging from his win at US Halfs, etc.
Shalane there should rightfully be hype around. Olympic medalist and Olympic record holder that just ran a 15k a few months ago at sub 5 pace. She hasn't quite dialed the marathon quite right yet, but she should certainly be a 2:19 gal once she gets it done. My only worry is that if she can run sub 5 pace for 15k a month+ ago...is she too sharp. Guys don't usually run very well at the shorter distances when they are really well trained for marathon
Desi is awesome, especially that finish in Boston a few years ago. No idea what to expect as far as her fitness goes coming back from injury, but hoping for awesome results!
As far as pacing, for most runs like easy/tempo I go by pace only. For some efforts like interval or races you can also go after certain splits as a guideline.
I tend to run pretty conservative in races, running say the first 50-75% of the race with a target pace in mind, then if I have anything left to push with doing so in the last bit.
Shalane is crazy. Let's hope she knows what she's doing. I really like that they don't have pace runners. It makes the race way more interesting from the start.
Meb did it! 2:08 Only 20sec in front of #2 2miles before the end, margin was around 6-7 seconds at some point, but Meb managed to find some resource in the end.
That was some amazing running by Meb, PRing by 40 seconds on a very difficult course are age 39. Can't help but think the main guys just underestimated him...but they weren't able to catch him in the end. Very cool win.
Shalane, while ballsy as heck, was also stupid. Going out on 2:18 pace through half, and continuing to press was madness; especially given that she and ONLY she led, and to add to that she made some aggressive mini surges to prevent others from taking the lead. The fact that she ran 2:22 off that is really impressive, and she might be ready to be a serious contender in the marathon...but the run itself was very poor strategically.
So happy for Meb, what an inspirational and solid run today, I was at the edge of my seat wondering if he was going to be able to hang on there at the end.
Track that out team usually uses had a practice running long so we had to go to the trail. Did 4x400, 2x800, 2x1200, with 90s recovery between everything. 400s in 75 avg, 800s in 2:52 avg, 1200s in 4:28 avg. Definitely feel ready for a good race this weekend or on the track a few Sunday's from now.
On April 23 2014 17:06 Bunn wrote: I finally managed to run for 25 minutes in one go. The pace was pretty slow, but after several failed attempts I don't really care. Feeling good.
On April 23 2014 13:16 L_Master wrote: Monsta workout today
Track that out team usually uses had a practice running long so we had to go to the trail. Did 4x400, 2x800, 2x1200, with 90s recovery between everything. 400s in 75 avg, 800s in 2:52 avg, 1200s in 4:28 avg. Definitely feel ready for a good race this weekend or on the track a few Sunday's from now.
Nicely done, nicely done! Just wondering, what sort of base mileage are you at, currently? I haven't been mixing in much speed work yet, myself, due to the Achilles and not feeling like I had enough base fitness to truly get a lot (besides more injuries) out of speed work. 'Just wondering.
Good luck racing this weekend!
PS. I think all of my guys are in Wave A, but we'll see if our inclination closer to the BB is to drop back a wave or not. It was pretty fun leading it off last year in A.
On April 23 2014 13:16 L_Master wrote: Monsta workout today
Track that out team usually uses had a practice running long so we had to go to the trail. Did 4x400, 2x800, 2x1200, with 90s recovery between everything. 400s in 75 avg, 800s in 2:52 avg, 1200s in 4:28 avg. Definitely feel ready for a good race this weekend or on the track a few Sunday's from now.
Nicely done, nicely done! Just wondering, what sort of base mileage are you at, currently? I haven't been mixing in much speed work yet, myself, due to the Achilles and not feeling like I had enough base fitness to truly get a lot (besides more injuries) out of speed work. 'Just wondering.
Good luck racing this weekend!
PS. I think all of my guys are in Wave A, but we'll see if our inclination closer to the BB is to drop back a wave or not. It was pretty fun leading it off last year in A.
Base mileage? About 15-20 mpw. Base aerobic work? Probably averaging 6-8 hours per week when you include elliptical/stairmaster/bike.
Honestly I'm probably being a little stupid making most of my running mileage workouts, but with that collegiate meet coming up on the 11th...
After that I'm going to lay low and run more easy miles, and do workouts broken up on the machines. I.e. 6xMile becomes 2x6 min hard elliptical, 2xMile on the mill, 2x6 min hard stairmaster.
Really underestimated the difficulty of the course, the net loss of elevation is really actually misleading.
Blew out my legs first 18miles, then from mile 18-21 was heartbreak hill which broke my legs more than my heart. Last 5 miles was just pure misery until the last 0.2 miles, which i turned on at boylston and the crowd as so loud i can't even hear myself think.
On April 24 2014 05:36 YPang wrote: ran boston this monday 3:07
Really underestimated the difficulty of the course, the net loss of elevation is really actually misleading.
Blew out my legs first 18miles, then from mile 18-21 was heartbreak hill which broke my legs more than my heart. Last 5 miles was just pure misery until the last 0.2 miles, which i turned on at boylston and the crowd as so loud i can't even hear myself think.
felt like an absolute super star, amazing race.
Yea, that isn't a bad time at all; especially since it got hot later on, and Boston is no easy course to begin with. What's next for you? More triathlon training?
On April 24 2014 05:36 YPang wrote: ran boston this monday 3:07
Really underestimated the difficulty of the course, the net loss of elevation is really actually misleading.
Blew out my legs first 18miles, then from mile 18-21 was heartbreak hill which broke my legs more than my heart. Last 5 miles was just pure misery until the last 0.2 miles, which i turned on at boylston and the crowd as so loud i can't even hear myself think.
felt like an absolute super star, amazing race.
Yea, that isn't a bad time at all; especially since it got hot later on, and Boston is no easy course to begin with. What's next for you? More triathlon training?
Haha, taking it easy for the next 2-3 days, then have a 10k on a track this saturday gonna try my best. Then gonna up the bike and swim volumes, trying to qualify for age group nationals next years in olympic distance triathlon, (It's a lot easier than it sounds).
How about you? are you almost back to where you were before u injured your hip? Hows your journey to your old race weight going?
hi guys i just got a pair of flyknit lunar1s and the fabric where the ankle is rubs against my ankle when I walked around in them. Does anyone know if this gets better over time?
On April 24 2014 07:57 zulu_nation8 wrote: hi guys i just got a pair of flyknit lunar1s and the fabric where the ankle is rubs against my ankle when I walked around in them. Does anyone know if this gets better over time?
a lot of shoes have that problem with me as well, a lot of times yes it does, but in the rare case that it doesn't what i do is take a pair of scissors and cut the back part that rubs, and often times it helps.
OCR is kind of a hybrid of running, so I guess this can belong here. Last week I did the Miami Super Spartan and I had the privilege to work with a team called making Sean a Spartan. What was their goal? To get Sean - a wheelchair bound man with cerebral palsy through a Spartan Super (8+ miles of obstacles and rough terrain).
Two days left till the Hermannslauf: Course map with elevations. It has a net loss of over 200m but that's all over the first 3k and I don't know how much running is involved in that part as the trail is supposely very narrow and over 6000 people are running.
I'm really excited and scared at the same time. The myth of the Hermannslauf is big here and it gets hyped a lot in the local news. But 31k is longer than I have ever run and the hills are brutal. I have also no idea how to pace myself. Calculators say that my marathon pace would be 5:00 min/km but I doubt that I can run that. It's also impossible to get a good estimate how fast you're actually running as there aren't any long flat parts. I guess my plan is to start with my slower friend and leave him at the 3km mark. This should help me to temper my excitement and not start way too fast at the long downward section.
On April 25 2014 13:53 Cecil wrote: OCR is kind of a hybrid of running, so I guess this can belong here. Last week I did the Miami Super Spartan and I had the privilege to work with a team called making Sean a Spartan. What was their goal? To get Sean - a wheelchair bound man with cerebral palsy through a Spartan Super (8+ miles of obstacles and rough terrain). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHMy8n17egM
Sorry for not responding earlier. I go kinda caught up in pre-race anxiety. That's a great video and a wonderful achievement for Sean and his team. How did you end up working with them? Are you part of the team or did you just meet them at the race and helped along?
On April 27 2014 01:36 L_Master wrote: Fuucckkkkkk. Feel like garbage today, so probably not racing Sunday. Ah well, track race in 2 weeks
Kill it Don_Julio!
Sucks. Sickness, injury or just not race-ready?
Time to go to bed now. I'll post tomorrow how the race was and I might even have pics.
ran a 20:57 5K this morning on a pretty hilly course so I'm pretty happy with that time. Just about all set for half marathon in 2 weeks, 1:45 should be in the bag unless something crazy happens.
Holy shit. What a race. I finished at 3:05 hours. I wanted to run sub 3 hours but I underestimated the hills. These motherfucking hills. I'm really, really proud as I gave everything I had and the Hermannslauf is an amazing experience.
We arrived at the start way too early because my friend tends to be overcautious. So we had to stay in the cold and wet weather (about 11°C but no rain) for almost two hours before the start of the race. The start was at the Hermannsdenkmal, a monument for Arminius who defeated the Romans lead by Varus in these hills and stopped any Roman invasion plans of the Barbarian lands east of the Rhine forever.+ Show Spoiler [The monument, covered in fog] +
Everything was well organized. There were enough toilets. There was a transport for our marked bags with extra clothes and stuff we need at the finish line.
We had to wait another 30 minutes in the starting area which was fine as everyone was cheerful and we all motivated each other. I managed to be in the first third of my starting group so it didn't took to long to start my actual race. It started to rain right at the moment my group started. The first 3k were all downhill. I felt pretty good with just a little twitch in my left thigh due to not being warmed yet. The first big hill started at about 5km. It was a challenge but I was able to run it all the way. It was still raining but I barely noticed it. We got to a huge military road for tanks or something with a huge crowd cheering for us. Almost felt like the Tour de France. I still felt fresh and was at a ~2:50h pace. We followed the trail which got really muddy thanks to the rain. It was rolling hills slightly upward at this point but we already felt the next big hill menacing nearby. And this one struck me really hard. It was a rather short but extremely steep (min 20%) ascend. Everyone had to walk there. I recovered well at the top of the hill and continued at my former pace. We passed through the medieval city centre of Oerlinghausen where what seemed like the whole population has assembled to cheer us on. That was at ~19km and I still wasn't tired too much. My ordeal and probably every runners ordeal started shortly after. The upcoming hill wasn't a single ascend but multiple very steep and short ramps with some downward slopes inbetween. I managed to run first ramp but had a cramp in my right calf at the second one. I recovered via walking and continued to run at a good pace at the flat parts. I had to walk the following ramps though and continued to have cramps in my calfs. The last 8k were a mix of running and walking. The running was surprisingly easy but the cramps forced me stop every few minutes which basically ruined my finishing time. The last 3k were mostly downhill with a few short hills inbetween so I managed to run most of them. The crowd at the finish was great and put a smile on everyone's face.+ Show Spoiler [broken but happy (#2128)] +
I had the 31k in me but the hills broke me. My legs aren't strong enough I guess. If I run the race next year which I probably will I'll try to train more often and more efficiently in the hills.
On April 27 2014 23:18 LuckyFool wrote: ran a 20:57 5K this morning on a pretty hilly course so I'm pretty happy with that time. Just about all set for half marathon in 2 weeks, 1:45 should be in the bag unless something crazy happens.
You have the speed to be way faster than 1:45, probably 1:40. If you have done enough long runs you should be fine.
After 8 years of practically zero sports (none, other than the occassional soccer with friends), I started running. It's been about 2 weeks now and I'm wondering if I'm going too fast. I don't want to get any injuries and I feel that my previous experience with (reasonably) high level football is really helping me. I also quit smoking after 5 years fulltime smoking, so my tempo really was 0. So far I've had these runs :
1st run - 4.01 KM - 28:32 - 11april 2nd - 4.54 KM - 30:02 - 13april 3rd - 5.82 KM - 34:03 - 16 april 4th - 6.50 KM - 38:56 - 19 april 5th - 4.93 KM - 26:36 - 21 april 6th - 7.07 KM - 39:25 (with 3x 0:20 top speed + 2:00 rest intervals after 5 KM) - 23 april 7th 7.25 KM - 47.25 (obstacles, climbing, stairs, offroad) - 25 april 8th (today) 10.00 KM - 57:20 - 28 april
Now my question is, am I pushing myself too much? After a few runs, i decided to run the 10km in Leiden, however now I train with 1 day inbetween (we had big big party in Holland for 26-27 april, I think I've walked atleast 15KM each day). After every run I have alot of little pains, but its all just tired muscles.. For the past 3 runs, I already have a nasty feeling in my legs after 2 minutes of walking, however when I warm up it gets less and less, after that I just run on willpower. So far no signs of any injury pain occurs, but I'm still a bit worried since I haven't trained for so long?
On April 28 2014 22:08 Don_Julio wrote: Holy shit. What a race. I finished at 3:05 hours. I wanted to run sub 3 hours but I underestimated the hills. These motherfucking hills. I'm really, really proud as I gave everything I had and the Hermannslauf is an amazing experience.
We arrived at the start way too early because my friend tends to be overcautious. So we had to stay in the cold and wet weather (about 11°C but no rain) for almost two hours before the start of the race. The start was at the Hermannsdenkmal, a monument for Arminius who defeated the Romans lead by Varus in these hills and stopped any Roman invasion plans of the Barbarian lands east of the Rhine forever.+ Show Spoiler [The monument, covered in fog] +
Everything was well organized. There were enough toilets. There was a transport for our marked bags with extra clothes and stuff we need at the finish line.
We had to wait another 30 minutes in the starting area which was fine as everyone was cheerful and we all motivated each other. I managed to be in the first third of my starting group so it didn't took to long to start my actual race. It started to rain right at the moment my group started. The first 3k were all downhill. I felt pretty good with just a little twitch in my left thigh due to not being warmed yet. The first big hill started at about 5km. It was a challenge but I was able to run it all the way. It was still raining but I barely noticed it. We got to a huge military road for tanks or something with a huge crowd cheering for us. Almost felt like the Tour de France. I still felt fresh and was at a ~2:50h pace. We followed the trail which got really muddy thanks to the rain. It was rolling hills slightly upward at this point but we already felt the next big hill menacing nearby. And this one struck me really hard. It was a rather short but extremely steep (min 20%) ascend. Everyone had to walk there. I recovered well at the top of the hill and continued at my former pace. We passed through the medieval city centre of Oerlinghausen where what seemed like the whole population has assembled to cheer us on. That was at ~19km and I still wasn't tired too much. My ordeal and probably every runners ordeal started shortly after. The upcoming hill wasn't a single ascend but multiple very steep and short ramps with some downward slopes inbetween. I managed to run first ramp but had a cramp in my right calf at the second one. I recovered via walking and continued to run at a good pace at the flat parts. I had to walk the following ramps though and continued to have cramps in my calfs. The last 8k were a mix of running and walking. The running was surprisingly easy but the cramps forced me stop every few minutes which basically ruined my finishing time. The last 3k were mostly downhill with a few short hills inbetween so I managed to run most of them. The crowd at the finish was great and put a smile on everyone's face.+ Show Spoiler [broken but happy (#2128)] +
I had the 31k in me but the hills broke me. My legs aren't strong enough I guess. If I run the race next year which I probably will I'll try to train more often and more efficiently in the hills.
Sounds like you had a (mostly) great race, and definitely enjoyed the experience! Pretty awesome to get those kind of crowds on a long course like that with cheering in many places, get a little taste of the elite feeling
The cramping may not have anything to do at all with fitness. It's commonly related to nutritional issues. I don't know how much running you did at race pace for longer distances, or how much practice you did with planned fluid and sugar/carb/gu intake you did...but that is absolutely something to consider for next time.
On April 27 2014 23:18 LuckyFool wrote: ran a 20:57 5K this morning on a pretty hilly course so I'm pretty happy with that time. Just about all set for half marathon in 2 weeks, 1:45 should be in the bag unless something crazy happens.
You have the speed to be way faster than 1:45, probably 1:40. If you have done enough long runs you should be fine.
He can run under 1:35, probably close to 1:30. Or "could", but probably isn't trained for true half marathon pace. I will say LuckyFool when you get to mile 8 or so, assuming you have stuck to 8 min pace and the race still feels easy...drop the hammer and run hard home from there. You could easily run the last 4 or 5 miles in the low 7s or faster if you got out at 1:45 pace as planned.
On April 29 2014 06:48 WonnaPlay wrote: After 8 years of practically zero sports (none, other than the occassional soccer with friends), I started running. It's been about 2 weeks now and I'm wondering if I'm going too fast. I don't want to get any injuries and I feel that my previous experience with (reasonably) high level football is really helping me. I also quit smoking after 5 years fulltime smoking, so my tempo really was 0. So far I've had these runs :
1st run - 4.01 KM - 28:32 - 11april 2nd - 4.54 KM - 30:02 - 13april 3rd - 5.82 KM - 34:03 - 16 april 4th - 6.50 KM - 38:56 - 19 april 5th - 4.93 KM - 26:36 - 21 april 6th - 7.07 KM - 39:25 (with 3x 0:20 top speed + 2:00 rest intervals after 5 KM) - 23 april 7th 7.25 KM - 47.25 (obstacles, climbing, stairs, offroad) - 25 april 8th (today) 10.00 KM - 57:20 - 28 april
Now my question is, am I pushing myself too much? After a few runs, i decided to run the 10km in Leiden, however now I train with 1 day inbetween (we had big big party in Holland for 26-27 april, I think I've walked atleast 15KM each day). After every run I have alot of little pains, but its all just tired muscles.. For the past 3 runs, I already have a nasty feeling in my legs after 2 minutes of walking, however when I warm up it gets less and less, after that I just run on willpower. So far no signs of any injury pain occurs, but I'm still a bit worried since I haven't trained for so long?
My first question is how do these runs feel. Would you describe them as easy, or you would you say you feel like you have to work some to get through the runs at the pace you are?
I wouldn't say you are doing too much, but I think most people do a little better both from a fitness standpoint and an injury standpoint with an approach that favors frequency. I'd keep your runs in the 4-7km range, but work on increasing the frequency over the next month or so to where you are running 5 or 6 times per week. Then if you still want more, start talking on a little more "kilometerage" to the runs.
I don't know exactly what is meant by nasty feeling, but you don't describe it as injury pain, and since it goes away as you run I would say continue to run, BUT monitor it. If it starts to hurt significantly after runs, or starts becoming more painful during runs...call it a day and take a few days off to make sure you are in the clear.
On April 28 2014 22:08 Don_Julio wrote: Holy shit. What a race. I finished at 3:05 hours. I wanted to run sub 3 hours but I underestimated the hills. These motherfucking hills. I'm really, really proud as I gave everything I had and the Hermannslauf is an amazing experience.
We arrived at the start way too early because my friend tends to be overcautious. So we had to stay in the cold and wet weather (about 11°C but no rain) for almost two hours before the start of the race. The start was at the Hermannsdenkmal, a monument for Arminius who defeated the Romans lead by Varus in these hills and stopped any Roman invasion plans of the Barbarian lands east of the Rhine forever.+ Show Spoiler [The monument, covered in fog] +
Everything was well organized. There were enough toilets. There was a transport for our marked bags with extra clothes and stuff we need at the finish line.
We had to wait another 30 minutes in the starting area which was fine as everyone was cheerful and we all motivated each other. I managed to be in the first third of my starting group so it didn't took to long to start my actual race. It started to rain right at the moment my group started. The first 3k were all downhill. I felt pretty good with just a little twitch in my left thigh due to not being warmed yet. The first big hill started at about 5km. It was a challenge but I was able to run it all the way. It was still raining but I barely noticed it. We got to a huge military road for tanks or something with a huge crowd cheering for us. Almost felt like the Tour de France. I still felt fresh and was at a ~2:50h pace. We followed the trail which got really muddy thanks to the rain. It was rolling hills slightly upward at this point but we already felt the next big hill menacing nearby. And this one struck me really hard. It was a rather short but extremely steep (min 20%) ascend. Everyone had to walk there. I recovered well at the top of the hill and continued at my former pace. We passed through the medieval city centre of Oerlinghausen where what seemed like the whole population has assembled to cheer us on. That was at ~19km and I still wasn't tired too much. My ordeal and probably every runners ordeal started shortly after. The upcoming hill wasn't a single ascend but multiple very steep and short ramps with some downward slopes inbetween. I managed to run first ramp but had a cramp in my right calf at the second one. I recovered via walking and continued to run at a good pace at the flat parts. I had to walk the following ramps though and continued to have cramps in my calfs. The last 8k were a mix of running and walking. The running was surprisingly easy but the cramps forced me stop every few minutes which basically ruined my finishing time. The last 3k were mostly downhill with a few short hills inbetween so I managed to run most of them. The crowd at the finish was great and put a smile on everyone's face.+ Show Spoiler [broken but happy (#2128)] +
I had the 31k in me but the hills broke me. My legs aren't strong enough I guess. If I run the race next year which I probably will I'll try to train more often and more efficiently in the hills.
Sounds like you had a (mostly) great race, and definitely enjoyed the experience! Pretty awesome to get those kind of crowds on a long course like that with cheering in many places, get a little taste of the elite feeling
The cramping may not have anything to do at all with fitness. It's commonly related to nutritional issues. I don't know how much running you did at race pace for longer distances, or how much practice you did with planned fluid and sugar/carb/gu intake you did...but that is absolutely something to consider for next time.
Nutrition during the race wasn't an issue I think. I started taking gels every 30 minutes after about an hour into the race. I drank water at every checkpoint so every 5k.
My preparation for the race was suboptimal though. I didn't run in january. And february and march were mostly to build up mileage again. This stupid accident with my foot stopped me from training for 10 days in the middle of april. I only had one run which was about 25k long with planned drinking and eating and it was more to test if my stomach can deal with the gels. Next year is going to be better (if I stay healthy).
On April 29 2014 06:48 WonnaPlay wrote: After 8 years of practically zero sports (none, other than the occassional soccer with friends), I started running. It's been about 2 weeks now and I'm wondering if I'm going too fast. I don't want to get any injuries and I feel that my previous experience with (reasonably) high level football is really helping me. I also quit smoking after 5 years fulltime smoking, so my tempo really was 0. So far I've had these runs :
1st run - 4.01 KM - 28:32 - 11april 2nd - 4.54 KM - 30:02 - 13april 3rd - 5.82 KM - 34:03 - 16 april 4th - 6.50 KM - 38:56 - 19 april 5th - 4.93 KM - 26:36 - 21 april 6th - 7.07 KM - 39:25 (with 3x 0:20 top speed + 2:00 rest intervals after 5 KM) - 23 april 7th 7.25 KM - 47.25 (obstacles, climbing, stairs, offroad) - 25 april 8th (today) 10.00 KM - 57:20 - 28 april
Now my question is, am I pushing myself too much? After a few runs, i decided to run the 10km in Leiden, however now I train with 1 day inbetween (we had big big party in Holland for 26-27 april, I think I've walked atleast 15KM each day). After every run I have alot of little pains, but its all just tired muscles.. For the past 3 runs, I already have a nasty feeling in my legs after 2 minutes of walking, however when I warm up it gets less and less, after that I just run on willpower. So far no signs of any injury pain occurs, but I'm still a bit worried since I haven't trained for so long?
My first question is how do these runs feel. Would you describe them as easy, or you would you say you feel like you have to work some to get through the runs at the pace you are?
I wouldn't say you are doing too much, but I think most people do a little better both from a fitness standpoint and an injury standpoint with an approach that favors frequency. I'd keep your runs in the 4-7km range, but work on increasing the frequency over the next month or so to where you are running 5 or 6 times per week. Then if you still want more, start talking on a little more "kilometerage" to the runs.
I don't know exactly what is meant by nasty feeling, but you don't describe it as injury pain, and since it goes away as you run I would say continue to run, BUT monitor it. If it starts to hurt significantly after runs, or starts becoming more painful during runs...call it a day and take a few days off to make sure you are in the clear.
The runs actually feel pretty awesome. If I would classify it in "easyness", the first few runs were incredibly hard. With my smoking background and no sports at all, I felt I was dying in tiredness en muscles.
The last few runs I can keep a consistent pace without much trouble. The hardest thing is the sourness in my legs at the end of the run (and beginning for that matter), but I would describe them as easy runs.
The hardest thing is to keep my pace "slow". I feel that I can achieve much higher speeds (I'm running far slower than I used to do back in the day) .
My gameday will be 18th of may, any tips or goals for training to this? I probably won't have time to train more than now, which is 3-4 times a week. My original target was 10km in <60 min, but now that I've already beaten this, what would be an reasonable goal? under 50min?
The runs actually feel pretty awesome. If I would classify it in "easyness", the first few runs were incredibly hard. With my smoking background and no sports at all, I felt I was dying in tiredness en muscles.
Good. Easy is what you want on runs. For now anyway
On April 29 2014 22:12 WonnaPlay wrote: The hardest thing is to keep my pace "slow". I feel that I can achieve much higher speeds (I'm running far slower than I used to do back in the day) .
My gameday will be 18th of may, any tips or goals for training to this? I probably won't have time to train more than now, which is 3-4 times a week. My original target was 10km in <60 min, but now that I've already beaten this, what would be an reasonable goal? under 50min?
If you can't do more times a week then running a bit more is okay. I'd say keep is somewhere in the 30-40 km/wk range for now, the more runs you can spread it out over the better.
As far as reasonable goals, that depends on how your current effort is right now. If you are running a true easy effort for those runs then you have a pretty good shot at 50 min. Do another couple weeks of getting in about 30-40 km and then do a run at a 'comfortably hard" effort for about 5k, and see how that goes. This effort should be one that doesn't hurt like hell to maintain, but also fast enough that you would be more than happy to slow down.
My 'lap' looks like this: flat-downhill-uphill-flat-uphill-flat-uphill.
Usually the second small hill kills me, but today I managed to overcome it. I read somewhere that running is a good way to gain more willpower, and luckily I remembered that and pushed myself to complete the run!
All is great, except that my GPS doesn't want to work, so I can only run for time.
Also, I'd like to know which should I do first: cooldown walk/run, or stretches?
On April 30 2014 15:56 Bunn wrote: Yay, managed to run 28 minutes in one go.
My 'lap' looks like this: flat-downhill-uphill-flat-uphill-flat-uphill.
Usually the second small hill kills me, but today I managed to overcome it. I read somewhere that running is a good way to gain more willpower, and luckily I remembered that and pushed myself to complete the run!
All is great, except that my GPS doesn't want to work, so I can only run for time.
Also, I'd like to know which should I do first: cooldown walk/run, or stretches?
Best order would be: Dynamic Stretching Warm Up -> Running -> Warm Down -> Any needed static stretching
The dynamic warm up is really only needed if you are doing a workout. Otherwise you can just amble into your run, starting at a near walk and just kinda naturally getting cruising as your body loosens up and feels ready to roll. Same thing for warm down, if you just did a normal easy run no real warm down is required.
Static stretching can pretty much be done on an as needed basis. Always after the workout as warm muscles can be stretched further and with less risk of injury, not to mention the fact that static stretching pre-workout lowers the power output of the muscle. If you know something typically needs attention then take care of it, otherwise there isn't a huge need; too much flexibility in the wrong places is actually detrimental for running economy.
MTA: As far as the GPS thing, if you have routes you regularly run you can just google earth them to get the distance, and you can do that retroactively for any run.
had a terrible month of april training wise (already posted a race result which was good). Basically, the past 3 weeks have been incredibly busy for me and, for excuses or whatever present, just haven't been going out for runs. Been dropping to like 3 runs a week and for pretty low mileage--mainly due to the fact that I'm running too fast of pace.
But, I'll hope to get an established routine going again!
On May 01 2014 10:18 N.geNuity wrote: had a terrible month of april training wise (already posted a race result which was good). Basically, the past 3 weeks have been incredibly busy for me and, for excuses or whatever present, just haven't been going out for runs. Been dropping to like 3 runs a week and for pretty low mileage--mainly due to the fact that I'm running too fast of pace.
But, I'll hope to get an established routine going again!
Never fun, but if you have been running some you won't have lost any fitness during that time frame at least. What's your next goal race?
Personally really not sure, but I think the thread's hype (and general boston hype, from the news to seeing some old friends on facebook that ran there) is getting me more inspired to go ahead and just do a longer race even if I don't exactly feel great in my fitness.
I'm going to be starting a job in Washington state so I think eyeing a seattle or portland half marathon is my goal. Though I'm sure I'll pick up a 5k along the way somewhere (may be some super small local race) just for pride purposes to break 18:00.
Hi guys, I'm trying to start running to lose a bit of body fat. I lift occasionally, 1-2 times a week but haven't done any aerobic activity in a very long time. Yesterday I could barely jog for 8 min on a track. I'm planning to run outside on offdays. Besides avoiding landing on heels too much, what other advice should I take? I wanna build up stamina and cut down on my 12% bf but also don't wanna lose gains. I cook for myself and watch my diet, etc. Thanks for help.
On May 02 2014 14:15 zulu_nation8 wrote: Hi guys, I'm trying to start running to lose a bit of body fat. I lift occasionally, 1-2 times a week but haven't done any aerobic activity in a very long time. Yesterday I could barely jog for 8 min on a track. I'm planning to run outside on offdays. Besides avoiding landing on heels too much, what other advice should I take? I wanna build up stamina and cut down on my 12% bf but also don't wanna lose gains. I cook for myself and watch my diet, etc. Thanks for help.
As long as you eat enough, and don't do any crazy 3+ hour runs where you are totally depleting all glycogen you won't lose any gains. The only way you will hurt gains is if you end up tiring yourself out so much running you can't get in quality lifting.
I wouldn't even worry too much about landing on heels, it's more important to have a good pushoff with the glutes engaged, and a reasonable cadence stride with the foot landing under the body's COG. How the strike actually plays out isn't really a huge deal, especially since the faster you are running the more naturally your footstrike will trend towards a forefoot strike.
Other than that, just make sure to run easy. If someone asked you if you ran your run at an easy effort, if the answer is yes you are doing it right. Harder, faster stuff comes later after you have a base.
Hello again, all! It's been a busy, busy past couple of weeks but things are looking good moving into Summer running 2014! I think that I'm pretty much over the Achilles tendon issue, but have still been really trying to take it easy so as to not inflame it again. I did go medium-hard on Wednesday, averaging about 6:20min/mile over a 5 mile run. My running form and my lungs are definitely not what they were a month ago, but I'll take it. Last, but not least on the "mtmentat progress log": I signed up for the La Luz Trail Run, but won't know if I'm one of the lucky few that get a spot until after the raffle.
On April 27 2014 23:18 LuckyFool wrote: ran a 20:57 5K this morning on a pretty hilly course so I'm pretty happy with that time. Just about all set for half marathon in 2 weeks, 1:45 should be in the bag unless something crazy happens.
'Just like the others mentioned, you may very well surprise yourself. Definite let us know what your time ends up being!
On April 28 2014 22:08 Don_Julio wrote: Holy shit. What a race. I finished at 3:05 hours. I wanted to run sub 3 hours but I underestimated the hills. These motherfucking hills. I'm really, really proud as I gave everything I had and the Hermannslauf is an amazing experience. + Show Spoiler +
We arrived at the start way too early because my friend tends to be overcautious. So we had to stay in the cold and wet weather (about 11°C but no rain) for almost two hours before the start of the race. The start was at the Hermannsdenkmal, a monument for Arminius who defeated the Romans lead by Varus in these hills and stopped any Roman invasion plans of the Barbarian lands east of the Rhine forever.+ Show Spoiler [The monument, covered in fog] +
Everything was well organized. There were enough toilets. There was a transport for our marked bags with extra clothes and stuff we need at the finish line.
We had to wait another 30 minutes in the starting area which was fine as everyone was cheerful and we all motivated each other. I managed to be in the first third of my starting group so it didn't took to long to start my actual race. It started to rain right at the moment my group started. The first 3k were all downhill. I felt pretty good with just a little twitch in my left thigh due to not being warmed yet. The first big hill started at about 5km. It was a challenge but I was able to run it all the way. It was still raining but I barely noticed it. We got to a huge military road for tanks or something with a huge crowd cheering for us. Almost felt like the Tour de France. I still felt fresh and was at a ~2:50h pace. We followed the trail which got really muddy thanks to the rain. It was rolling hills slightly upward at this point but we already felt the next big hill menacing nearby. And this one struck me really hard. It was a rather short but extremely steep (min 20%) ascend. Everyone had to walk there. I recovered well at the top of the hill and continued at my former pace. We passed through the medieval city centre of Oerlinghausen where what seemed like the whole population has assembled to cheer us on. That was at ~19km and I still wasn't tired too much. My ordeal and probably every runners ordeal started shortly after. The upcoming hill wasn't a single ascend but multiple very steep and short ramps with some downward slopes inbetween. I managed to run first ramp but had a cramp in my right calf at the second one. I recovered via walking and continued to run at a good pace at the flat parts. I had to walk the following ramps though and continued to have cramps in my calfs. The last 8k were a mix of running and walking. The running was surprisingly easy but the cramps forced me stop every few minutes which basically ruined my finishing time. The last 3k were mostly downhill with a few short hills inbetween so I managed to run most of them. The crowd at the finish was great and put a smile on everyone's face.+ Show Spoiler [broken but happy (#2128)] +
I had the 31k in me but the hills broke me. My legs aren't strong enough I guess. If I run the race next year which I probably will I'll try to train more often and more efficiently in the hills.
Congrats, Don_Julio!! Thanks for taking the time to write that up, and including the pictures of the start and finish. Do you think you'll run it again next year? Hills, hills, hills: you've put the fear in me, and rightfully so (with my trio of high alt and vert mountain runs coming up).
On May 02 2014 09:43 L_Master wrote: Another pretty nice workout today, 5x1k with 2 min jog in 3:44, 3:37, 3:35, 3:31, 3:23. Racing Nielson 2M Saturday, might be a little tired from todays workout but still hoping for something reasonably fast.
Faster and faster! Let me know if you're up in Boulder anytime soon for Mag, and have fun/good luck on Saturday!
On May 02 2014 14:15 zulu_nation8 wrote: Hi guys, I'm trying to start running to lose a bit of body fat. I lift occasionally, 1-2 times a week but haven't done any aerobic activity in a very long time. Yesterday I could barely jog for 8 min on a track. I'm planning to run outside on offdays. Besides avoiding landing on heels too much, what other advice should I take? I wanna build up stamina and cut down on my 12% bf but also don't wanna lose gains. I cook for myself and watch my diet, etc. Thanks for help.
I'm a bit concerned: are you at 12% fat currently and how are you measuring this? 12% is healthy, why the drive to lower percentages? If jogging 8 minutes on the track is an issue, you might try biking, or alternating 5 minutes jogging 2 minutes walking to build up some baseline stamina...
I'm a bit concerned: are you at 12% fat currently and how are you measuring this? 12% is healthy, why the drive to lower percentages? If jogging 8 minutes on the track is an issue, you might try biking, or alternating 5 minutes jogging 2 minutes walking to build up some baseline stamina...
I'll comment on this. 12% is a healthy BF percentage. It is not, however, a performance (or looks) BF percentage. Usually you have to start getting around 8-10% to even start getting a look at your abs, and 5-6% numbers are common for good runners. Bodybuilders for competition can go as low as 3-4%.
I wouldn't be worried at all about someone wanting to drop from 12% BF. If they have 5% and want to drop...that would be a potential concern in my book.
I live in Michigan and it's been pretty awful weather wise. I started running outside a few weeks ago and it's been so cold/rainy since my 4th or 5th run, that I just haven't wanted to go out. It's been rainy and usually topping out at mid 50's, though several days it has been much cooler than that. I should probably go out and buy some thermal gear :/
In the meantime, what would you recommend for running outside in the cold if you don't have cold weather gear? I'm afraid to go out in boxers a hoodie and sweatpants because I don't want to get all chafed or something. I have a pair of moisture wicking shorts that I had been using at the gym/during the summer. Would I be pretty safe doing the shorts and a pair of sweats on top?
Also, I've been walking every morning when I get up (around 7 most days) for an hour on our local state trail. On days I want to run, would you say I should be skipping the walk and going for a run in the morning, or doing the walk and then running later in the day? Keep in mind my endurance is still pretty shit. I"m doing C25k and I'm on the stretch where my run/walk is at 5 mins running. I'm really having a hard time getting my legs to accept it and I"m having problems with tight hip flexors as well and working a lot on mobility work when I can.
Hope everyone else is doing well with their running goals.
On May 03 2014 01:56 L_Master wrote: I'll comment on this. 12% is a healthy BF percentage. It is not, however, a performance (or looks) BF percentage. Usually you have to start getting around 8-10% to even start getting a look at your abs, and 5-6% numbers are common for good runners. Bodybuilders for competition can go as low as 3-4%.
I wouldn't be worried at all about someone wanting to drop from 12% BF. If they have 5% and want to drop...that would be a potential concern in my book.
Eh, I guess I always get a bit sketched out about thinking of things in terms of body fat. It's a really bad indicator of true health/fitness (especially with all the inaccurate ways people try to measure it). Personally, I run to run/compete and so I guess would hope to hear "I want to be able to jog for more than 8 minutes on the track" instead of "how do I use running to go below 12% bf?" /pontification
I got one of those handheld body fat analyzers and took the average of a couple of trials. I haven't weighed myself in a while though so it still might be off. I have a slimmish frame but I definitely don't look good without a shirt and I don't remember the last time I've seen any abs.
Laid an egg today. Knew right away I didn't have it as the first 800 is downhill and felt tough at 5:45 pace. Came through 4s slower than a month ago at the mile feeling worse. Got lazy from there and just kinda cruised home till last 400 when a teammate tried to come by and I pride kicked. Ran 12:28, but no matter what wasn't going much more than 10s faster than that.
Not too worried, likely just a combination of sick last weekend + workout Thursday + entirely too much time on my feet Friday.
Might race once more before BB, but that remains to be determined. True goal race though is hometown 4th of July 4M race...flat and fast!
Damn it, smashed my incline PR by well over a minute getting 25:30, fastest descent of Incline down Barr on strava, and new PR by 15 seconds for the Ruxton mile descent of 4:16.
Although initially I was put off by the weather, I decided to go anyways. Temperature was about 5 C and in during the end it started to rain lightly. I ran for about 20 minutes, but for some reason I don't feel bad about it. My speed today was quite a bit faster, and I managed to push myself to complete exhaustion. I wanted to stop several times earlier, but I kept pushing myself until I reached the end of the hill. By that point I was completely drained: I felt like my feet wouldn't keep me standing anymore and my intestines started to feel weird. But i wasn't sad about it. I felt like I outdid myself, because usually when I ran that fast, I would've ended quite a bit earlier.
I think working on my breathing has helped me improve. Instead of breathing through lungs, I've started to focus on stomach instead. Now I don't get tired that fast and can keep going for longer.
I've also found that I enjoy this relatively cold weather (5C) with no wind. It feels like I won't break a sweat so easily, which also makes me feel more energetic/powerful.
On May 05 2014 12:13 L_Master wrote: Damn it, smashed my incline PR by well over a minute getting 25:30, fastest descent of Incline down Barr on strava, and new PR by 15 seconds for the Ruxton mile descent of 4:16.
All I wanna know is where was this yesterday?!
Haha, maybe you're a diva and get upset by little things and you don't even know about it. Eat a Snickers.
On May 05 2014 18:22 Bunn wrote: Although initially I was put off by the weather, I decided to go anyways. Temperature was about 5 C and in during the end it started to rain lightly. I ran for about 20 minutes, but for some reason I don't feel bad about it. My speed today was quite a bit faster, and I managed to push myself to complete exhaustion. I wanted to stop several times earlier, but I kept pushing myself until I reached the end of the hill. By that point I was completely drained: I felt like my feet wouldn't keep me standing anymore and my intestines started to feel weird. But i wasn't sad about it. I felt like I outdid myself, because usually when I ran that fast, I would've ended quite a bit earlier.
I think working on my breathing has helped me improve. Instead of breathing through lungs, I've started to focus on stomach instead. Now I don't get tired that fast and can keep going for longer.
I've also found that I enjoy this relatively cold weather (5C) with no wind. It feels like I won't break a sweat so easily, which also makes me feel more energetic/powerful.
Well done. Just be careful with hard workouts. Your main focus should be to slowly increase your weekly mileage. If you add too many high effort runs you risk injury especially if you're still building up mileage. It's tough to force yourself to run slow because running fast is so much fun but injuries are worse.
On May 05 2014 12:13 L_Master wrote: Damn it, smashed my incline PR by well over a minute getting 25:30, fastest descent of Incline down Barr on strava, and new PR by 15 seconds for the Ruxton mile descent of 4:16.
All I wanna know is where was this yesterday?!
Haha, maybe you're a diva and get upset by little things and you don't even know about it. Eat a Snickers.
On May 05 2014 18:22 Bunn wrote: Although initially I was put off by the weather, I decided to go anyways. Temperature was about 5 C and in during the end it started to rain lightly. I ran for about 20 minutes, but for some reason I don't feel bad about it. My speed today was quite a bit faster, and I managed to push myself to complete exhaustion. I wanted to stop several times earlier, but I kept pushing myself until I reached the end of the hill. By that point I was completely drained: I felt like my feet wouldn't keep me standing anymore and my intestines started to feel weird. But i wasn't sad about it. I felt like I outdid myself, because usually when I ran that fast, I would've ended quite a bit earlier.
I think working on my breathing has helped me improve. Instead of breathing through lungs, I've started to focus on stomach instead. Now I don't get tired that fast and can keep going for longer.
I've also found that I enjoy this relatively cold weather (5C) with no wind. It feels like I won't break a sweat so easily, which also makes me feel more energetic/powerful.
Well done. Just be careful with hard workouts. Your main focus should be to slowly increase your weekly mileage. If you add too many high effort runs you risk injury especially if you're still building up mileage. It's tough to force yourself to run slow because running fast is so much fun but injuries are worse.
Do you have any races coming up?
Yeah, I know I should be careful, but I just felt so good today. I'll control myself more next time.
When it comes to races, I'm too scared to sign up. There are some runs coming up at the end of this month and next month (10km and 7km), but I have a feeling that I wouldn't manage to complete them. I don't think I'm ready yet.
On May 05 2014 12:13 L_Master wrote: Damn it, smashed my incline PR by well over a minute getting 25:30, fastest descent of Incline down Barr on strava, and new PR by 15 seconds for the Ruxton mile descent of 4:16.
All I wanna know is where was this yesterday?!
Haha, maybe you're a diva and get upset by little things and you don't even know about it. Eat a Snickers.
On May 05 2014 18:22 Bunn wrote: Although initially I was put off by the weather, I decided to go anyways. Temperature was about 5 C and in during the end it started to rain lightly. I ran for about 20 minutes, but for some reason I don't feel bad about it. My speed today was quite a bit faster, and I managed to push myself to complete exhaustion. I wanted to stop several times earlier, but I kept pushing myself until I reached the end of the hill. By that point I was completely drained: I felt like my feet wouldn't keep me standing anymore and my intestines started to feel weird. But i wasn't sad about it. I felt like I outdid myself, because usually when I ran that fast, I would've ended quite a bit earlier.
I think working on my breathing has helped me improve. Instead of breathing through lungs, I've started to focus on stomach instead. Now I don't get tired that fast and can keep going for longer.
I've also found that I enjoy this relatively cold weather (5C) with no wind. It feels like I won't break a sweat so easily, which also makes me feel more energetic/powerful.
Well done. Just be careful with hard workouts. Your main focus should be to slowly increase your weekly mileage. If you add too many high effort runs you risk injury especially if you're still building up mileage. It's tough to force yourself to run slow because running fast is so much fun but injuries are worse.
Do you have any races coming up?
Yeah, I know I should be careful, but I just felt so good today. I'll control myself more next time.
When it comes to races, I'm too scared to sign up. There are some runs coming up at the end of this month and next month (10km and 7km), but I have a feeling that I wouldn't manage to complete them. I don't think I'm ready yet.
I'll actually play devil's advocate and say I think this is fine. Organic runs where you just roll with that "fuck yea time to ROLLLLL" feeling are pretty good runs to do, and a nice way to gain some fitness without destroying yourself. They offer a good transition to real speedwork, and let's face it; at some point if you want to get faster you are going to need to do more than jog 30 minutes on occasion. Or even 60 min everyday.
On May 05 2014 12:13 L_Master wrote: Damn it, smashed my incline PR by well over a minute getting 25:30, fastest descent of Incline down Barr on strava, and new PR by 15 seconds for the Ruxton mile descent of 4:16.
All I wanna know is where was this yesterday?!
Haha, maybe you're a diva and get upset by little things and you don't even know about it. Eat a Snickers.
On May 05 2014 18:22 Bunn wrote: Although initially I was put off by the weather, I decided to go anyways. Temperature was about 5 C and in during the end it started to rain lightly. I ran for about 20 minutes, but for some reason I don't feel bad about it. My speed today was quite a bit faster, and I managed to push myself to complete exhaustion. I wanted to stop several times earlier, but I kept pushing myself until I reached the end of the hill. By that point I was completely drained: I felt like my feet wouldn't keep me standing anymore and my intestines started to feel weird. But i wasn't sad about it. I felt like I outdid myself, because usually when I ran that fast, I would've ended quite a bit earlier.
I think working on my breathing has helped me improve. Instead of breathing through lungs, I've started to focus on stomach instead. Now I don't get tired that fast and can keep going for longer.
I've also found that I enjoy this relatively cold weather (5C) with no wind. It feels like I won't break a sweat so easily, which also makes me feel more energetic/powerful.
Well done. Just be careful with hard workouts. Your main focus should be to slowly increase your weekly mileage. If you add too many high effort runs you risk injury especially if you're still building up mileage. It's tough to force yourself to run slow because running fast is so much fun but injuries are worse.
Do you have any races coming up?
When it comes to races, I'm too scared to sign up. There are some runs coming up at the end of this month and next month (10km and 7km), but I have a feeling that I wouldn't manage to complete them. I don't think I'm ready yet.
You might be able to run the 7k. You don't have to sign up early for small races. The first race is only about finishing anyways. Just keep the 7k in mind and we'll see how you feel about in a month from now It's no problem if you just don#t feel like racing btw. There are many runners out there who never race. And yes, you can run at faster paces if you feel like it. Just listen to your body. ______
Got attacked by a dog today. He tried to bite my foot but I reacted quick enough that his teeth only scratched the shoe and he didn't follow me any further. His owner looked shocked that her little dog could do such thing and didn't respond at all when I yelled at her to put her beast on a fucking leash. I'm prepared now. The next dog who wants a piece of me will be kicked to the moon.
Fuck dogs. Seriously. Or rather, fuck most dog owners.
Very few of them seem to realize that even if you KNOW your dog is friendly as a runner of cyclist I don't have a clue if your dog wants to say hi or take a piece of my calf home for dinner. There is nothing more annoying to me than an unleashed dog on the trail, as it pretty much requires I stop running and walk slowly by. I've been nipped at/attacked enough times that I won't run by. Equally annoying are the owners that have a lease...but let it run with 15m of slack. Dog might as well be unleashed at that point
I'm a little extreme, but with a fair number of encounters, and a fear of unknown dogs ("attacked" when I was 2) I just don't have patience. It shouldn't be hard if you are out walking with your dog in a public space to heel the dog right as a runner/cyclist/equestrian comes by.
Figured these articles were relevant, considering they're about footwear that were falsely promoted as more helpful and harmful, even though they barely protect or support the feet at all.
The TL;DR version is that the Vibram FiveFingers not only make you look ridiculous, but they're also worse for your feet than actual running shoes.
The company that makes those weird running shoes that kind of look like gloves for your feet has settled a class action lawsuit, which claimed the shoes cause health problems despite advertising claiming the opposite.
Runner’s World reports that Concord-based Vibram USA, which sells the FiveFingers shoe (classified as a minimalist shoe because, well, the amount of traditional shoe is pretty minimal), agreed to pay $3.75 million and will fulfill two claims without proof of purchase for the members of the suit.
Vibram USA is part of the larger Vibram corporation, based in Italy. The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Boston.
As part of the settlement, the company will also cease claiming the shoe reduces injury and strengthens muscle, at least until it can prove it.
As Gawker-owned running blog Fittish notes, a 2013 study showed that transitioning to wearing the pseudo-shoes can lead to greater risk of stress fractures. Vibram, for its part, denies any wrongdoing as it prepares to move the money into an escrow account.
The favorite toe-shoe of vegan restaurant servers and 55-year-old men with ponytails has settled a class action lawsuit brought against it by what sounds like every person who ever wore its foot-condoms.
Runner's World Newswire's Matt McCue reports that though Vibram "expressly [denies] and continues to deny any wrongdoing alleged in the Actions, and neither admits nor concedes any actual or potential fault, wrongdoing or liability," the company has agreed to pay a lot of money.
Vibram Agrees to Settle Class Action Lawsuit Vibram USA, the company that makes FiveFingers running shoes, has agreed to settle a lawsuit that... Read on runnersworld.com The initial claim, filed in 2012, accuses Vibram of deceiving consumers by saying that its shoes could "reduce foot injuries and strengthen foot muscles." Unfortunately, Vibram appears to have pulled this out of thin air, really hoping it was true.
It is not true.
Science takes time, and since the advent of Christopher McDougall's best-selling Born to Run (a book based mainly on anecdote that sparked the minimalist footwear revolution), science has discovered that barefoot running can really fuck you up.
"This study showed that increases in bone marrow edema [the precursor to a stress fracture] are more common in subjects who were transitioning to the [Vibram FiveFingers]," concluded this 2013 study.
In penance for its crimes against fashion and humanity, Vibram has placed $3.75 million into escrow. Those funds will go to the fitness idiots who purchased a pair after March 21, 2009, with up to $94 for each in an effort to help your friends and family not shudder when looking at your feet.
Edit: I've heard that Vibram had been marketing its footwear off the idea that it's "more natural", and therefore healthier for you... which is a pretty big fallacy. Natural and healthy aren't actual synonyms, despite many people treating them as such. Heck, clothes, shoes, medicine, vaccines, and all technology aren't natural, yet they can certainly lead to a healthier lifestyle than running around naked getting diseases.
On May 08 2014 21:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Figured these articles were relevant, considering they're about footwear that were falsely promoted as more helpful and harmful, even though they barely protect or support the feet at all.
The TL;DR version is that the Vibram FiveFingers not only make you look ridiculous, but they're also worse for your feet than actual running shoes.
The company that makes those weird running shoes that kind of look like gloves for your feet has settled a class action lawsuit, which claimed the shoes cause health problems despite advertising claiming the opposite.
Runner’s World reports that Concord-based Vibram USA, which sells the FiveFingers shoe (classified as a minimalist shoe because, well, the amount of traditional shoe is pretty minimal), agreed to pay $3.75 million and will fulfill two claims without proof of purchase for the members of the suit.
Vibram USA is part of the larger Vibram corporation, based in Italy. The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Boston.
As part of the settlement, the company will also cease claiming the shoe reduces injury and strengthens muscle, at least until it can prove it.
As Gawker-owned running blog Fittish notes, a 2013 study showed that transitioning to wearing the pseudo-shoes can lead to greater risk of stress fractures. Vibram, for its part, denies any wrongdoing as it prepares to move the money into an escrow account.
The favorite toe-shoe of vegan restaurant servers and 55-year-old men with ponytails has settled a class action lawsuit brought against it by what sounds like every person who ever wore its foot-condoms.
Runner's World Newswire's Matt McCue reports that though Vibram "expressly [denies] and continues to deny any wrongdoing alleged in the Actions, and neither admits nor concedes any actual or potential fault, wrongdoing or liability," the company has agreed to pay a lot of money.
Vibram Agrees to Settle Class Action Lawsuit Vibram USA, the company that makes FiveFingers running shoes, has agreed to settle a lawsuit that... Read on runnersworld.com The initial claim, filed in 2012, accuses Vibram of deceiving consumers by saying that its shoes could "reduce foot injuries and strengthen foot muscles." Unfortunately, Vibram appears to have pulled this out of thin air, really hoping it was true.
It is not true.
Science takes time, and since the advent of Christopher McDougall's best-selling Born to Run (a book based mainly on anecdote that sparked the minimalist footwear revolution), science has discovered that barefoot running can really fuck you up.
"This study showed that increases in bone marrow edema [the precursor to a stress fracture] are more common in subjects who were transitioning to the [Vibram FiveFingers]," concluded this 2013 study.
In penance for its crimes against fashion and humanity, Vibram has placed $3.75 million into escrow. Those funds will go to the fitness idiots who purchased a pair after March 21, 2009, with up to $94 for each in an effort to help your friends and family not shudder when looking at your feet.
Edit: I've heard that Vibram had been marketing its footwear off the idea that it's "more natural", and therefore healthier for you... which is a pretty big fallacy. Natural and healthy aren't actual synonyms, despite many people treating them as such. Heck, clothes, shoes, medicine, vaccines, and all technology aren't natural, yet they can certainly lead to a healthier lifestyle than running around naked getting diseases.
I haven't run in a while but I used to run 4-6 miles a day in my vibrams. The only time I had problems is when I increased my distance too quickly. This is just my opinion but I think a lot of people do hurt themselves in vibrams because they don't build up to barefoot running properly. I spent several weeks just going on long walks (like 10 miles) and light hikes in mine before I started running. Again, I never had any issues, and I don't have cartilage in my right knee.
The biggest point about running shoes in Born to Run, which that article author mentions, was that running shoes with their fancy pads and arch support and $300 bullshit features were causing a problem in form. On a large scale, putting crap products on peoples feet will damage running form on a wider level. The idea behind Vibrams was that they could promote proper running form again on the large scale, not that they were a magical remedy.
Guys I'm spending a lot of time on 800mg of Ibuprofen now due to dental work... does this mean I should avoid all jogging/running until the work is completed? Or can I do a light jog and just not push myself? For example, if a hard effort for me is 6mph for 30 minutes, I could do 5.2 mph for 15 minutes? To what extent should you not exercise while medicated in this way?
On May 11 2014 09:43 micronesia wrote: Guys I'm spending a lot of time on 800mg of Ibuprofen now due to dental work... does this mean I should avoid all jogging/running until the work is completed? Or can I do a light jog and just not push myself? For example, if a hard effort for me is 6mph for 30 minutes, I could do 5.2 mph for 15 minutes? To what extent should you not exercise while medicated in this way?
NSAID's and kidneys generally don't go too well together. My suspicion is that like most things if you did it for a little while nothing serious would happen. But I certainly can't say for sure, especially without knowing your medical history and obviously even then I'm by no means qualified to give medical advice.
I'd say go with the option of check with your doctor.
so I missed out on my time goal big time in my half earlier today, ran a 2:06:45. (was shooting for 1:45) I ran at 1:45 pace through the first 8 miles or so and felt pretty good but somehow I really got wrecked going up a hill which was basically a steady incline for a mile and a half straight from about mile 5.5 to mile 7.
For whatever reason my legs felt like complete trash when I got done with that hill and had to pretty much crawl for the last few miles heading home when I was planning on trying to pick up the pace. I hit the hill way too hard probably and should have backed off, but aerobically I felt so good so I was really pushing through it...but then sort of hit a brick wall right when I was done with, like hard. It was more of an issue with legs just feeling like total trash than breathing issues. Mile 12 included a hill which was almost worse than the one that initially gave me problems...I had to basically walk all the way up that one. map of the course (the two red incline areas basically destroyed me)
I also didn't realize that literally half of the race was on trails/up ridiculous hills so actually I'm not terribly disappointed with that time because the course was much harder than my last half (when I ran a 2:04 last year on a MUCH easier course) . I definitely need to work more hill training into my normal routine because aerobically I'm in really good shape which is probably leading to my solid 5K times but strength wise my legs seem to just fall apart with hills and over races longer than 10 miles.
But yeah that half course was the hardest course I've ever run by far, at points the trails were so narrow we were running over small bridges and weaving up and down narrow one lane trails with roots/rocks and stuff. Absolutely not a race to plan for running a PR...LOL, definitely was a fun experience though Harpers Ferry is really beautiful area to run through.
I'm going to write up a blog post and give more details/mile splits. I'll link to it tomorrow when I'm done with it.
pics of me crossing the finish line, it was really hot and humid too so that also helped make conditions more difficult... + Show Spoiler +
If the course was that ridiculous then I wouldn't be too worried about the result, especially since you ran pretty darn well through 8 miles. It quite possible that after that hills like that your legs were just too dead to run at any sort of pace after that.
Depending on just how undulating those initial 8 miles were its also quite possible you put in an effort that is more like anywhere from 7:15-7:45 effort on flat terrain.
Next up is going to be another half in Asheville North Carolina in early June. Haven't checked the course yet so I'm not sure how hard it's going to be. I'm going to spend the next few weeks working more hills into my training for sure.
and yeah I'm doing decent in the weight department, I have a few pounds to lose still though, my ideal weight is probably right around 160 or less (I'm 6'1) and right now I think I'm like 165 or something. I def have a few useless pounds in the gut for sure. I was under 160 when I was just peaking in my marathon training last September.
I'd also get in a few tempo type efforts. Something like 2x2M, 3x2M, 2x3M, 4x2M, 3x3M as a progression and main workout would be pretty good. Those last two are pretty tough workouts. Given your 5k ability, I'd say assuming a flat course looking for pace somewhere between 7:10-7:30 would be good.
Another cool workout I really like is a longer effort where you alternate either 5 min ON / 5 min OFF or 10 min ON / 10 min OFF for anywhere from 40-80 mins. ON portions are half marathon pace, and off should be a 'solid' easy pace, probably in the neighborhood of 5k +1:30-1:45 per mile.
Don't have to do these if they don't fit into your training, but both of those are workouts I particularly like.
I've noticed that in my last two races, I've ran negative splits.
For example, in my last 10K, my splits per mile were 10:01 / 9:07 / 9:11 / 9:05 / 9:18 / 8:15
And in my recent 4M race, my splits were 9:15 / 9:07 / 9:24 / 8:22
Is this something I should try to correct? Should I be pushing myself harder earlier in the race? I find that it is psychologically easier for me to push myself towards the end of the race.
I forgot to post this the other day, but I thought I'd share. I'm doing a Couch to 5k Program to pick up running. My Week 3 day 3 was the first time (running outside, not on the treadmill) that I got done with the workout without and I haven't had a lot of cramps and been really tired afterwords. This was significant for me because I have been having a LOT of cramping in my side (stitches) during runs. I hit a good pace where I felt comfortable. I didn't even have any hip pain afterword (I've been working on mobility every day, and it flares up a little when I run, but not this time!).
That was Monday. It was stormy this week, so this was the first day I could get out again, so I started my Week 4 this week, where you hit 5 mins continuous minutes (15 mins total over 30 mins). I felt very good during the first portion of 2.5 and 5 mins. I was pretty tired in the second 2.5 min section. On the second 5 min portion I really struggled through it and got terrible stitches. I'm trying to figure out what is causing it. I went out alone, so at the moment my theory is that I probably started to slouch over a bit as I got tired, though I'm going to be more conscious this Saturday when I go out.
Hope everyone else is doing well with their 2014 running goals
On May 16 2014 06:53 GrandInquisitor wrote: I've noticed that in my last two races, I've ran negative splits.
For example, in my last 10K, my splits per mile were 10:01 / 9:07 / 9:11 / 9:05 / 9:18 / 8:15
And in my recent 4M race, my splits were 9:15 / 9:07 / 9:24 / 8:22
Is this something I should try to correct? Should I be pushing myself harder earlier in the race? I find that it is psychologically easier for me to push myself towards the end of the race.
Negative splits are a good way to run, some would even argue the optimal way to run. However, we are talking slight negative splits. Yours are massive, which basically means you are leaving tons of time on the course.
Think of it this way. Let's say you can run a 6 minute mile flat out. If you run 7:30 mile pace for the first 3 laps, then finish like a god with a 55 second last lap (world class finish), you still get a time of only 6:32.
Your pattern is similar, and at the risk of sounding a little crass, you basically aren't anywhere near race effort those first 3 miles if you are able to pick it up by over a minute per mile on your last mile as that is a HUGE difference in effort. Basically one minute per mile is the difference between how fast someone can run an all out mile and how fast they can run a half marathon. Your effort the first 3 miles is probably somewhere between what you could do for a marathon and what you could do for a half marathon. You are capable of running at least 34 minutes for 4M, but honestly low 33's or high 32 could very much be a possibility since we don't know exactly how easy those first miles are and how hard that last mile was.
Assuming you wanted to run 32 min 4M, the a good set of negative splits would look something like: 8:10, 8:00, 7:55, 7:50. This is hard to do in the actual race because to run this you are going to have to feel like you are working faster and harder each mile...in fact this is the case just to run even splits.
Grats on finishing your first HM LuckyFool. Missing your goal time isn't a big deal in particular as a first timer an on a tough course. You probably learned a lot and will totally crush your goal time at the next 21,1km. _______
I have a race in one week. I finally had a track workout again (5x1000m) and was really happy with the result (4:17/4:12/4:07/4:08/4:12). That was way faster than the planned 4:20 and makes me confident to attack the 44 next friday. I think I have one more high/medium effort run in me. What makes more sense, another interval workout or a temporun?
On May 11 2014 09:43 micronesia wrote: Guys I'm spending a lot of time on 800mg of Ibuprofen now due to dental work... does this mean I should avoid all jogging/running until the work is completed? Or can I do a light jog and just not push myself? For example, if a hard effort for me is 6mph for 30 minutes, I could do 5.2 mph for 15 minutes? To what extent should you not exercise while medicated in this way?
NSAID's and kidneys generally don't go too well together. My suspicion is that like most things if you did it for a little while nothing serious would happen. But I certainly can't say for sure, especially without knowing your medical history and obviously even then I'm by no means qualified to give medical advice.
I'd say go with the option of check with your doctor.
I used to take 800mg mega pills every day for weeks at a time. I'm sure it's not a good idea but it worked out okay for me for that period of time when I was in racing mode.
On May 02 2014 14:15 zulu_nation8 wrote: Hi guys, I'm trying to start running to lose a bit of body fat. I lift occasionally, 1-2 times a week but haven't done any aerobic activity in a very long time. Yesterday I could barely jog for 8 min on a track. I'm planning to run outside on offdays. Besides avoiding landing on heels too much, what other advice should I take? I wanna build up stamina and cut down on my 12% bf but also don't wanna lose gains. I cook for myself and watch my diet, etc. Thanks for help.
If you're more focused on strength than endurance training consider doing speed rather than distance running. 100-400 meters or short hill sprints.
On May 17 2014 02:46 Don_Julio wrote: Grats on finishing your first HM LuckyFool. Missing your goal time isn't a big deal in particular as a first timer an on a tough course. You probably learned a lot and will totally crush your goal time at the next 21,1km. _______
I have a race in one week. I finally had a track workout again (5x1000m) and was really happy with the result (4:17/4:12/4:07/4:08/4:12). That was way faster than the planned 4:20 and makes me confident to attack the 44 next friday. I think I have one more high/medium effort run in me. What makes more sense, another interval workout or a temporun?
If it's a big goal race just do tempo. If it's not do another interval workout. But above all else go by how you feel.
Ok, I just posted the other day, but I thought I'd post again as I was quite happy with today's run.
I lost the little sleeve for one of my earbuds that was supposed to be designed for sports applications, so it fit really snug in my ear and didn't budge. I had to use some older ones that don't fit that well, so they were loosely in my ear. I had a podcast playing as well as my C25k and a running app to track my mileage/pace. Well, the earphones were very loosely in place, so I didn't hear the first switch over from run to walk; I could hear the podcast OK, so I was absorbed a bit by that and wasn't paying to too much in the run, except for being very conscious of keeping a good posture.
This was my second run of week 4 [2 repetitions of the following, run for 3 mins, walk for 90 seconds, run for 5 mins]; I didn't realize until I heard "start running" after running for a bit that I had mist the first walk interval, so I kept running for the rest of the 5 mins (9.5 mins of running). I felt great after and did the same for my second repetition, and actually running a bit into the Cooldown period to reach a stop sign a bit ahead, probably 10.5-11 mins on the second portion.
I felt really good, and had 0 side stitches, hip problems or anything. I wasn't even breathing as hard as normal after running. However, I've read constantly that if you increase your mileage too fast, you can risk an injury. Obviously, 10 minutes isn't a lot, but it is double my current run intervals. I felt great after running today, so would you say it's a good idea to skip weeks, or continue on the program?
Oh, I also have a second question; I typically breathe with my chest, and I know that I'm supposed to breathe deeper. That is to say, my shoulders shouldn't rise, and breathing in should make my stomach expand and breathing out should make it contract. I've been practicing, and it's easy enough while I"m not exercising, but when I"m running, it's hard to tell if I'm breathing correctly. Are there any tips you could give me to make sure I"m breathing correctly while running?
Just finished my first half marathon with a chip time of 1:43:50. Was pretty pleased but wanted to break 1:40. I think 10K is more of my type of run, anyone know what I could potentially/easily do on a 10K course? I think when I was runnign for a 10K a couple years ago I was hitting just under 45min on a treadmill.
I sprinted at the end even when I had nothing left in the tank and passed like 30 people, it felt good.
How was the half marathon course? Flat, undulating, hilly, etc
From the half time, assuming it's a flat course you'd be looking at about 45 for 10k. However, as I'm guessing you are a relatively new and/or lower mileage runner your endurance is lacking, which means you will naturally be faster as the distance gets shorter.
Without knowing any other info I'd say you can probably run 10k, at current fitness, no slower than 44 high and no faster than 42 flat. That all changes if it turns out this half marathon had 3000' of elevation gain/loss or something like that, but really we need more info.
Oh man, oh man, oh man! Sometimes it's a pretty good thing to go into a race without too many expectations. I just ran the Colfax Half Marathon with a bunch of friends, and had a darn decent time (1:27:18). I had gone into the race worried about level of fitness and possible re-injury of my Achilles, so I started the race pretty conservatively and kept rolling up and past people for first 11 miles. I definitely have more work to do re: level of fitness (was a little woozy/anarobic mile 9-10), but it felt quite good on my legs. Best part of all: a friend I have been training with ran a 1:20, top 10 time. Awesome day!
Just finished my first half marathon with a chip time of 1:43:50. Was pretty pleased but wanted to break 1:40. I think 10K is more of my type of run, anyone know what I could potentially/easily do on a 10K course? I think when I was runnign for a 10K a couple years ago I was hitting just under 45min on a treadmill.
I sprinted at the end even when I had nothing left in the tank and passed like 30 people, it felt good.
Good job, Wooly! Especially finishing strong - my race today didn't end nearly as strong as I would have hoped. Time for more base training, hill training, and altitude for me!
This was the Halifax Bluenose Marathon and some of the hills were quite steep, (saw several people having to walk near the top). I should have also said all my training was done inside on a flat treadmill and i was fighting a small cold. I think I could have gone sub 1:40 if everything clicked and I had more training outside. Start Elevation 48 m Max Elevation 73 m Gain 37492 m
actually doesn't seem very steep looking at the numbers, but our city is quite hilly, so there were a lot of small hills, probably in the undulating range, with a few big ones.
Also wondering if I start training again for either 10K or half marathon if the training schedules on this site are good or not?
Seems like a heavy workload for competitive 10K training. 10-K half marathon
If these arn't any good, do you guys have any training programs you like? I would love to do sub 40 and sub 35 10K's if that is viable. I don't think I have the patience to do a full marathon, I get bored around the 16 km mark
On May 18 2014 16:29 Arisen wrote: I felt great after running today, so would you say it's a good idea to skip weeks, or continue on the program?
That is fine to do. Just remember to keep the pace easy.
On May 18 2014 16:29 Arisen wrote: Oh, I also have a second question; I typically breathe with my chest, and I know that I'm supposed to breathe deeper. That is to say, my shoulders shouldn't rise, and breathing in should make my stomach expand and breathing out should make it contract. I've been practicing, and it's easy enough while I"m not exercising, but when I"m running, it's hard to tell if I'm breathing correctly. Are there any tips you could give me to make sure I"m breathing correctly while running?
Your body knows how to breathe, let it do it's thing.
I just ran the Colfax Half Marathon with a bunch of friends, and had a darn decent time (1:27:18).
Surprised you didn't go faster, since from what I remember you did a hard training run around 18:00 5k pace. But then again if you started easy it's pretty hard to get the time back, not to mention afaik your training hasn't been HM focused.
PS: Your crazy for running a half a week before Bolder Boulder!
On May 19 2014 08:18 WoolySheep wrote: Grats mtmentat, would love to run that time!
This was the Halifax Bluenose Marathon and some of the hills were quite steep, (saw several people having to walk near the top). I should have also said all my training was done inside on a flat treadmill and i was fighting a small cold. I think I could have gone sub 1:40 if everything clicked and I had more training outside. Start Elevation 48 m Max Elevation 73 m Gain 37492 m
I'm not sure what that was meant to be, but I'm trying to envision a race with over 35km of climbing. Judging from that I'd have to say you are at least in shape to break 27 for 10k
Also wondering if I start training again for either 10K or half marathon if the training schedules on this site are good or not?
Seems like a heavy workload for competitive 10K training. 10-K half marathon
If these arn't any good, do you guys have any training programs you like? I would love to do sub 40 and sub 35 10K's if that is viable. I don't think I have the patience to do a full marathon, I get bored around the 16 km mark
Thanks for the help!
I would hardly call that schedule heavy training (referring to the "competitive 10k" plan, but it's not light either. That's a solid volume for someone who is a recreation runner. Most good runners, collegiates, and pros are running anywhere from 80-130 miles per week for 10k training, depending on the individual runner and what part of their training they are at.
As far as the training programs go, they are okay programs but a little bit generic and rigid. Feel free to switch things around if needed, shorten a workout or run if you feel a bit tired, etc. If you just say "by god I'm going to do exactly what the schedule says because it says so"...that's a recipe for poor training.
Also, the workouts on that schedule I would say are quite difficult. 8x800 at 15s faster than 5k pace with 2 min rest sounds absolutely brutal. So does 4xMile @ 5k pace. I would play around with those a little bit, as that is a high number of absolutely murderous workouts. The other comment I have is the schedule has absolutely no tempos or stronger effort long runs, both of which are useful for 10k training and entirely neglecting your over-distance endurance for a full cycle is probably unwise.
One final comment, those schedules are fine several months out from a race; but after following one you should do several months of base training before following the schedule again. 2-3 months usually maxes out your "endurance" speed benefits, at which points it's time to come back and work on your overall aerobic fitness and sprint speed for several months before another intense training cycle.
I would love to do sub 40 and sub 35 10K's if that is viable. I don't think I have the patience to do a full marathon, I get bored around the 16 km mark
1)Setting solid goals like sub 35 is good, but don't be reaching for that now. Worry about breaking 43 or 41:30 or something closer first. Then 40, then 39, etc. If you try to train like a sub 40 guy right now you'll get into trouble. 2)There is NOTHING wrong with not wanting to do a marathon. It's a much different type of running than shorter track distances and not for everyone. There is this annoying attitude amongst runners, especially the more casual types, that you have to do a marathon to be a "real" runner, or that the way running progression works is 5k->10k->HM->Marathon. I call bullshit. If that's fun for you then it's a great way to go, but there is certainly nothing wrong with a progression that looks like 23:00 -> 19:45 -> 18:10 -> 17:20 -> 16:11 -> 14:43 either.
On May 19 2014 21:17 WoolySheep wrote: Hey, thanks for the feedback. Just wondering why doing 15M can help with 10K? Is it just better overall endurance?
Yes, that is exactly why. Easy running and general mileage do all kinds of good things for you such as increasing capillarization of muscles, increasing the strength of the left ventricle of the heart, better lung elasticity, increased number of mitochondria, and perhaps most importantly improving running economy. The more you run, the more efficient you get at it and thus the less energy it takes to run a certain pace.
One of the reasons that guys can run a 12:45 5k is because they don't need nearly as much oxygen to run 4:07 pace as you or I would.
On May 19 2014 15:14 L_Master wrote: Surprised you didn't go faster, since from what I remember you did a hard training run around 18:00 5k pace. But then again if you started easy it's pretty hard to get the time back, not to mention afaik your training hasn't been HM focused.
PS: Your crazy for running a half a week before Bolder Boulder!
I was doing that training a month ago, just before the Achilles decided to flare up. Since then I have had to take it really easy, and averaged about 14 miles per week. I may be crazy, but all the fried neurons in the world won't help so much as actual weekly mileage.
You're right, though, Bolder Boulder is going to be another "let's see what happens" race for me this year. I'm the best man in a wedding on Saturday beforehand in Oregon, so will be a bit tired, I'm sure (you might even beat me!).
The next major race for me is the Mt. Evans, June 14. I have some serious work to do to prep for altitude, distance, and climbing.
Since then I have had to take it really easy, and averaged about 14 miles per week. I may be crazy, but all the fried neurons in the world won't help so much as actual weekly mileage.
You and me both. Time to see what can be run on minimal training.
I am back for another cycle of agony and ecstasy. I thought I was primed to hit 32:30 in the 10k last August and ran a 33:17. I'm jumping back up to the marathon this summer, with a goal of running 2:40 or better in Portland on October 5th. I'm going to follow the Pfitzinger "Advanced Marathoning" plan for 18 weeks that peaks at 102 miles per week.
I've been running ~90km/week over the winter, and was in the process of building that up when I sprained a ligament in my ankle in some new shoes about a month ago. After some physio and a bunch of topical NSAIDs and cross-training I've dealt with that, and I'm back on the horse. Last week was 85k, and this one should be around 100k.
Hello and highfives to everyone here. I'm super jazzed to see this thread is still alive–huge props to L_Master. Summer is here; let's run!
I'm gonna try getting a bit serious with running this summer, seeing all my friends are. I have not been running for half a year, 5 km took 30 minutes and I feel so slow
I also have this 'lung pain' I easily get if I don't concentrate on my breathing. Real pain in the arse.
I am back for another cycle of agony and ecstasy. I thought I was primed to hit 32:30 in the 10k last August and ran a 33:17. I'm jumping back up to the marathon this summer, with a goal of running 2:40 or better in Portland on October 5th. I'm going to follow the Pfitzinger "Advanced Marathoning" plan for 18 weeks that peaks at 102 miles per week.
I've been running ~90km/week over the winter, and was in the process of building that up when I sprained a ligament in my ankle in some new shoes about a month ago. After some physio and a bunch of topical NSAIDs and cross-training I've dealt with that, and I'm back on the horse. Last week was 85k, and this one should be around 100k.
Hello and highfives to everyone here. I'm super jazzed to see this thread is still alive–huge props to L_Master. Summer is here; let's run!
The speed is there, so it's a reasonable goal; though I'd say shoot for the sexier barrier of sub 2:37:18 as that is still within your wheelhouse for sure.
Will this be your debut, or have you ran a marathon before?
small question, I took my normal size for my running shoes and every time I run for more than 5min, the sides of my feet hurt a bit. Does that mean I should've sized up?
On May 21 2014 22:34 Bonham wrote: I've run two before: a 3:05 debut three years ago when I didn't really know what I was doing, and a 2:54 the year following that.
2:37:18 seems oddly specific. How did you arrive at that number?
On May 22 2014 00:32 zulu_nation8 wrote: small question, I took my normal size for my running shoes and every time I run for more than 5min, the sides of my feet hurt a bit. Does that mean I should've sized up?
hmm usually small shoes cause toe issues, not sides of feet, at least for me.
Do you have average feet or are you wide? It could still be that the shoes are too small. I usually go a half size or full size more with running shoes, they say its better to have a little extra space for feet. My issue is always with toes though if my shoes are too small.
You can also experiment with thin socks too, my old pair of running shoes my toes would get beat up if I didn't wear super thin socks.
wooooooot. Just ran a new PR and barely sub 44. It was 43:58 I think but I'm not sure as the start was too sudden to start my watch accurately.
I started a little too fast but found my tempo at about 2k. I had always the same back about 30m in front of me. My shoe guy apparently and got him at the last km. I finished really strong and sprinted to break the 44.
I now have reached almost all of my goals for 2014. Only the sub 1:40 half left and I still have four months to prepare and am probably capable to run this already.
Nice work Mr. Don Julio! Lookin forward to seeing a good half result too.
As far as my stuff goes, fuuuuuueeeeeck being sick! I think it's the fact that I just started a job at the Y a few months ago doing childwatch (age 1-8) and youth programs that's causing it but I've been sick now twice in the last month.
Not expecting much from BB at this point. I'd be thrilled to break 40. Only been able to do about 30 miles of running the past 4 weeks due to illness/finals/calf cramp. Training has been hampered enough that I think after BB I'm just going to start base phase, work up to maybe 40 mpw and then get ready for some stuff in the fall. Haven't really had issues from my hip/groin, so hopefully that will hold as I start running more. It feels like I am truly back and ready to train seriously again...but I won't know until I try.
On May 24 2014 04:31 Don_Julio wrote: wooooooot. Just ran a new PR and barely sub 44. It was 43:58 I think but I'm not sure as the start was too sudden to start my watch accurately.
I started a little too fast but found my tempo at about 2k. I had always the same back about 30m in front of me. My shoe guy apparently and got him at the last km. I finished really strong and sprinted to break the 44.
I now have reached almost all of my goals for 2014. Only the sub 1:40 half left and I still have four months to prepare and am probably capable to run this already.
I managed two mid 1:39 half-marathons last year, while running high 44 and mid 45 for 10k. So it shouldn't be hard for you with proper training for the longer distance.
On May 24 2014 06:50 L_Master wrote: Nice work Mr. Don Julio! Lookin forward to seeing a good half result too.
As far as my stuff goes, fuuuuuueeeeeck being sick! I think it's the fact that I just started a job at the Y a few months ago doing childwatch (age 1-8) and youth programs that's causing it but I've been sick now twice in the last month.
Not expecting much from BB at this point. I'd be thrilled to break 40. Only been able to do about 30 miles of running the past 4 weeks due to illness/finals/calf cramp. Training has been hampered enough that I think after BB I'm just going to start base phase, work up to maybe 40 mpw and then get ready for some stuff in the fall. Haven't really had issues from my hip/groin, so hopefully that will hold as I start running more. It feels like I am truly back and ready to train seriously again...but I won't know until I try.
Children are living biological weapons. I work in schools sometimes as part of my studies and I always get sick in my second week. You'll get used to it eventually. mtmentat will be sad. I think he really wants to race with you.
On May 24 2014 04:31 Don_Julio wrote: wooooooot. Just ran a new PR and barely sub 44. It was 43:58 I think but I'm not sure as the start was too sudden to start my watch accurately.
I started a little too fast but found my tempo at about 2k. I had always the same back about 30m in front of me. My shoe guy apparently and got him at the last km. I finished really strong and sprinted to break the 44.
I now have reached almost all of my goals for 2014. Only the sub 1:40 half left and I still have four months to prepare and am probably capable to run this already.
I managed two mid 1:39 half-marathons last year, while running high 44 and mid 45 for 10k. So it shouldn't be hard for you with proper training for the longer distance.
You're every pace calculators dream.
I ran a 1:42:15 HM last year with a 45:55 10k best so I'm really confident that 1:40 won't be too hard.
just picked up some new running shoes for speedwork and races, I love getting new shoes- adios boost, + Show Spoiler +
I'm racing in another 5K on Sunday. I ran this same course on April 27th in 20:57 but I feel like I've leveled up since then. I can feel a sub 20 effort possibly on the horizon, for the first time ever. (Old 5K PR is 20:30)
On May 24 2014 06:50 L_Master wrote: Nice work Mr. Don Julio! Lookin forward to seeing a good half result too.
As far as my stuff goes, fuuuuuueeeeeck being sick! I think it's the fact that I just started a job at the Y a few months ago doing childwatch (age 1-8) and youth programs that's causing it but I've been sick now twice in the last month. + Show Spoiler +
Not expecting much from BB at this point. I'd be thrilled to break 40. Only been able to do about 30 miles of running the past 4 weeks due to illness/finals/calf cramp. Training has been hampered enough that I think after BB I'm just going to start base phase, work up to maybe 40 mpw and then get ready for some stuff in the fall. Haven't really had issues from my hip/groin, so hopefully that will hold as I start running more. It feels like I am truly back and ready to train seriously again...but I won't know until I try.
Children are living biological weapons. I work in schools sometimes as part of my studies and I always get sick in my second week. You'll get used to it eventually. mtmentat will be sad. I think he really wants to race with you.
I'm of two minds, this evening. Firstly, I had a pretty good race. 37:35 is not too far off of last year's performance, and quite good considering my last month or two of lackluster training. 'Nuff said.
Don_Julio is right, though, I was very sad to log in tonight and find out that L_Master was sick today. It must have been a pretty grueling race. I ran a half marathon last year (to get my qualifying time for Pikes) with a severe chest cold, one of the most painful things I've ever done, and I think you just ran the Bolder Boulder in a similar way. Hang in there!
Haha that really is a good race. Absolutely no chance I would have beaten that regardless of being sick. Best workouts gave me was a shot at 38 mid, but BB is a pretty tough course. Ended up starting late because friends were slow, so I got great practice at the 3 man weave.
Glorified tempo in about 43 min. BB said I ran 6.2 miles. GPS said 6.63.
Even though the result was nothing I had fun. Enough now of this 5-10 mpw crap. Injury hasn't come back, and while it may still be there no sense in continuing to avoid it. Time to stop being worried and be a real runner again. Summer base and buildup to 50+ mpw again here we come!
Oooh, that does seem snazzy. The MacMillan calculator translates my 10k time into a 2:36, which is encouraging, but Portland is not a super-flat course, so I'll need to be stronger this summer than I was a year previous.
Anyway, I'm glad to hear your body seems to be behaving itself, and I'm looking forward to hearing more about your training as you ease back in.
Also, congrats, Don_Julio! PRs are always the best. You are also right that children are little germ bombs who ought to be outlawed.
I can't decide how to feel. It seems like I have a monster aerobic engine right now in most things, I'm casually cruising hilly mountain bike trails at like 17 mph, and 20 on the roads with an obviously sub-optimal mountain bike is nothing. Same thing with the incline, where even at a not quite yet runnerly lean weight I'm still threatening the top 25 overall, and am competitive with all the local 15-16 min studs.
Then I go to run and 6:30 for 3 miles feels borderline on whether I can call that tempo or not. I'll admit it's probably just a case of being a little too heavy and only running like 5 or 10 miles a week...but its nonetheless agitating to feel so damn strong at everything BUT what matters.
That said, I'm still optimistic that when I do get some mileage under my legs this seemingly strong aerobic engine will actually be worth something in running terms as well.
I'm no expert at all but it really sounds like you just lack actual running mileage and it perfectly reflects how your training has looked for the last year and a half.
Did my first run in over a year yesterday, and I started off really easy (Start to Run, by Belgian runner Evy Gruyaert) but boy do my calves hurt today. I seemed to get more energy as the run progressed though rather than less, so I expect my body needs to readjust to running but once that happens my stamina is ok. Looking forward to the next run on tuesday (tomorrow is bike day).
Was travelling over the weekend and missed the 10k live. Just watched the replay, and, wow, Rupp looks great when he pulls away with 800 to go.
In other news, I start my formal Pfitzinger 18 week cycle tomorrow. Portland, here I come! I am cautiously optimistic about my shape going into this. I hit 120k this week, and broke 100 the previous two, and the ankle seems to be holding up fine. Needs nice and a bit of Diclofinac, but nothing unbearable. I guess I'll just have to wait and see how it responds to four and a half months of pretty intense treatment.
On June 02 2014 13:16 Bonham wrote: Was travelling over the weekend and missed the 10k live. Just watched the replay, and, wow, Rupp looks great when he pulls away with 800 to go.
In other news, I start my formal Pfitzinger 18 week cycle tomorrow. Portland, here I come! I am cautiously optimistic about my shape going into this. I hit 120k this week, and broke 100 the previous two, and the ankle seems to be holding up fine. Needs nice and a bit of Diclofinac, but nothing unbearable. I guess I'll just have to wait and see how it responds to four and a half months of pretty intense treatment.
Wish Rupp woulda gone sooner, as I think he could have easily ran something close to 26:35 or better if he woulda started driving at the 5k mark. He was jumping on every "move" and itching to go the whole way. Still, a 26:44 with 1:57 close is unfathomable to me.
Good stuff as far as training goes, I'll be rooting for that ankle to hold up! Gonna be fun as always to follow your training.
As for me, jumped up to 47 miles this week (75k) from about 8mpw, with 90-105 min of overall volume each day up from 45. Felt like absolute shit till today, with everything feeling tired, worn out, slow, and generally jerky and unflowing. Finally went away today and I had a nice "long run" of 9 miles over some seriously hilly terrain where I felt like I was cruising nicely.
I'll be backing down to 30 next week, but keeping overall volume same. I expect the next two or so weeks to generally be really tiring and then start perking up after that. Pretty much base and sprints for June, then I'll start adding in some tempos/progressions/fartleks towards July, with the intent of bringing a pretty good base for starting trackwork in late August.
Haven't been here in a while! Glad to see L_Master is still kicking it.
I just ran a 10k (Calgary 50th marathon) at under 44:xx which is a PR! Though I was a bit dissapointed. I got a sweet watch, the Garmin 620 which, amongst other things, calculates your VO2 max and has a "Race Predictor" based off this. My race predictor said 43:xx so I failed my electronic gadget!
On a personal note, I just started running again after a series of injuries and near death experiences (6 weeks in hospital after internal bleeding/almost losing kidney).
What is everyone making of these news bait articles coming out about excessive running being bad for you? I tried looking into the studies and they are stating numbers as low as 25 km's / week as being the maximal distance for healthy running. If this was discussed previously, just point me to the right page. I can post links if no one knows what I'm talking about.
On June 02 2014 16:10 L_Master wrote: As for me, jumped up to 47 miles this week (75k) from about 8mpw, with 90-105 min of overall volume each day up from 45. Felt like absolute shit till today, with everything feeling tired, worn out, slow, and generally jerky and unflowing. Finally went away today and I had a nice "long run" of 9 miles over some seriously hilly terrain where I felt like I was cruising nicely.
I'll be backing down to 30 next week, but keeping overall volume same. I expect the next two or so weeks to generally be really tiring and then start perking up after that. Pretty much base and sprints for June, then I'll start adding in some tempos/progressions/fartleks towards July, with the intent of bringing a pretty good base for starting trackwork in late August.
Whoa, that's a big jump! I'm glad you didn't injure yourself. I'm sure you're well aware of the risks of pumping up mileage too quickly. I can totally relate to the urge to get back at it after a prolonged hiatus–I have no idea how you stayed sane running 8mpw.
Also, thanks for your kind words! I'll do my best not to disappoint. I'm quite interested to see what you get up to with some injury-free training. You've obviously got a ton of knowledge and it looks like you've maintained some substantial fitness during your rehab. Do you have any specific races, distances, or goals in mind?
You're correct about still having a base, though it's just not a running base. Right now I'm an absolutely monster on the bike and the elliptical...but pretty awful running. I've been cruising the occasional 40 mile ride in under 2 hours solo on a mountain bike, which as far as I understand from biking is a pretty good ride if it's an easy effort. So the fitness is there...just not the running fitness.
Goal right now is pretty much get a base (running base) back. It's been 20 months since I last had a month with more than 30 miles of running.
The jump was big, but it was time to test the waters; and more importantly I feel comfortable with that jump as I've twice before jumped from very low to 40 and been great. Still plan to drop back down to 25-30 and work up from there however as I don't want any more setbacks.
I'll race casually over the summer, but it will be off base mileage with no real goals or workouts in mind. Just want to build to 50-60 mpw and 105-120 min a day of aerobic work, as well as working on my sprint speed. If I can come out with a strong base, and ideally a mid 50s 400 I'd be thrilled.
I'm (very) tentatively hoping to try and run for UCCS in the fall, but A TON has to go right for that to happen. To have any sort of shot I'll have to be in sub 17 shape, which basically depends entirely on whether or not I can actually nut up and get lean AND whether that losing of weight continues to give me the 2 sec/lb/mile that it has up till this point. BIG ifs. It's a pretty ridiculous ask to hope to run 45s faster for 5k off base only than you ever have before.
Even then I'm not sure if I would be able to because I'll have to battle with the NCAA on eligibility, and EVEN if all that works out I still might not be able to walk on as I'd be a high 16s senior...and thus a non-contributor with no time to develop further.
I'll dedicate my next PR to you if you make onto the team, L_Master.
Does anyone have a good source for training plans? I have never followed a plan and want to try it for my next half. It's still far away but I want to know what I need as a base to start out. Goal time would be 1:35, while ambitious I think it's manageable if I follow a plan. I'm currently running 4 days a week. I could move up to 5 days but probably need a plan that helps me to make the transition.
On June 05 2014 22:38 Don_Julio wrote: I'll dedicate my next PR to you if you make onto the team, L_Master.
Does anyone have a good source for training plans? I have never followed a plan and want to try it for my next half. It's still far away but I want to know what I need as a base to start out. Goal time would be 1:35, while ambitious I think it's manageable if I follow a plan. I'm currently running 4 days a week. I could move up to 5 days but probably need a plan that helps me to make the transition.
I can't vouch for the plans, though I can say that Garmin paid real money to a real training company to come up with them:
The HM plans are 12-16 weeks I believe. If you have a garmin watch, you can also upload the plan to it and it will remind you of what you are to do. And if you chose a plan that goes by heart rate zones, the watch can remind you/monitor your heart rate to ensure you're in the right zone. If it sounds like I'm a garmin salesman, I'm close as I get heavily discounted products through a friend who works for the company. I'm starting the 10k plan to get my time <40 mins in a couple weeks.
Of course, you can just follow the plans without any fancy gadgetry!
On June 05 2014 22:38 Don_Julio wrote: I'll dedicate my next PR to you if you make onto the team, L_Master.
Does anyone have a good source for training plans? I have never followed a plan and want to try it for my next half. It's still far away but I want to know what I need as a base to start out. Goal time would be 1:35, while ambitious I think it's manageable if I follow a plan. I'm currently running 4 days a week. I could move up to 5 days but probably need a plan that helps me to make the transition.
I can't vouch for the plans, though I can say that Garmin paid real money to a real training company to come up with them:
The HM plans are 12-16 weeks I believe. If you have a garmin watch, you can also upload the plan to it and it will remind you of what you are to do. And if you chose a plan that goes by heart rate zones, the watch can remind you/monitor your heart rate to ensure you're in the right zone. If it sounds like I'm a garmin salesman, I'm close as I get heavily discounted products through a friend who works for the company. I'm starting the 10k plan to get my time <40 mins in a couple weeks.
Of course, you can just follow the plans without any fancy gadgetry!
After using a Soleus I wish I had bought a Garmin instead, it counts km faster than it should ( not by alot but still, annoying ), and it has issues connecting to my PC for uploading, also doesn't calculate elevation. Only good part about it is that Strava supports it.
Beyond that, been training still, I had hurt my foot on vacation in Mexico so I had a forced 2 week holiday from running, just put my first run in today, 18km felt pretty good, that first run back from a break always feels so good, no tight muscles no pain, all that lingering crap you put up with during focused training, gone!
I don't get them often, but at 13km mark my right calf just like, dropped out from under me, muscle spasm, probably just from not using it for a bit I guess, ran through it, did affect my time quite a bit though.
On a side note, man I get injured alot, never anything serious, but geez, 1.5 years running now, and I think I have been through like, 2 knee injuries, an ankle injury, bruised knee, strained ribs(twice), and the latest being my foot.
On June 08 2014 04:07 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: hi does someone know when the qualification time requirements for marathon and 10k for Rio will be revealed/determined?
The Olympics use the IAAF standards, which are unlikely to change before 2016 so you are looking at 27:45 has been the 'A' for 10,000; and 2:15 the 'A' for marathon. B standards iirc are 28:05/2:18
On June 08 2014 04:07 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: hi does someone know when the qualification time requirements for marathon and 10k for Rio will be revealed/determined?
The Olympics use the IAAF standards, which are unlikely to change before 2016 so you are looking at 27:45 has been the 'A' for 10,000; and 2:15 the 'A' for marathon. B standards iirc are 28:05/2:18
but for shoes I would just plug runningwarehouse.com in general, if you have prior experience in shoes and know what you want. I've bought two pairs from there on clearance/liquidation and they've worked out great (for reference mizuno wave universe 4 [a road flat] and a mizuno wave inspire 9, although the "normal" running shoe was the exact identical make/model of the shoe I was wearing so I had no qualms about needing to try it on). Plus they permanently run a 15% promo code on their liquidation items it seems so you get it even cheaper.
Though they don't have under armour brand, but just contributing my 2 cents to the discussion. Also, I haven't been in areas with great local running stores IMO (in terms of doing returns back to the community). In high school the store our team went to gave discounts to all the high school teams, had a running club, organized or sponsored some races, etc (a reason to "buy local", since it will be more expensive).
On June 12 2014 12:30 L_Master wrote: Nice little workout today. 15 min tempo cutdown averaging about 6:35, then 4x800 working from 6:00 -> 5:50, last 200 of last 800 in 29.
Just wanted to get in a light workout to get the legs turning over before low key 5k on Saturday, so rest was pretty generous.
Anything low 19s would be fine, as since BB I haven't run anything faster than 7:30 pace or so.
Eee, that is a spicy 200, especially at the end of an 800. Glad to hear your strength is returning. I'm excited to see what you post on Saturday! Is it on a track?
On June 12 2014 12:30 L_Master wrote: Nice little workout today. 15 min tempo cutdown averaging about 6:35, then 4x800 working from 6:00 -> 5:50, last 200 of last 800 in 29.
Just wanted to get in a light workout to get the legs turning over before low key 5k on Saturday, so rest was pretty generous.
Anything low 19s would be fine, as since BB I haven't run anything faster than 7:30 pace or so.
Eee, that is a spicy 200, especially at the end of an 800. Glad to hear your strength is returning. I'm excited to see what you post on Saturday! Is it on a track?
It's a road race, but pretty flat. It's Colorado so not pancake flat, but it's like gentle 1% downhill out and then 1% uphill back.
Yea the 200 was quick, wanted to try switching the gears a little. Speed seems to be pretty good, was able to run 200s the other day right around 27 flat. Hopefully I can find another second, or a tad more as that should give me the speed to run mid 50s 400, which would give me a crack at sub 2 in the Spring.
Fall will be about using the summer strength to hopefully run a decent 5k, or if things really have rounded into shape like magic from the weight and such...I'll be running XC for UCCS.
If I don't make the team, sub 17 and sub 2 are the long term goals.
On an unrelated note, I seem to be pretty suited to biking. I don't ride much and I'm putting up some pretty good results comparatively on strava. For intsance, the other day I road a pretty casual ride through a popular hilly loop and turns out I had the second fastest time overall, ahead of some people marked as "pro". Now they may have been riding super easy, but I wasn't exactly hammering either. Unfortunately, I lack a road bike, so no real way to get into a race and test myself...not that I would ever ride seriously. I enjoy it, but running is 10x more fun for me.
On June 12 2014 14:45 Adrian_mx wrote: Hey mates, Im looking for a good pair of Under armour running shoes, anyone know of any?
Why Under Armour?
If you're looking for new running shoes you should definitely go to a running store and get yourself fitted. You'll never know what shoes are best for you unless you have years of experience and already know the shoe you want. ____
My running (note: not "training") up to this point did not prepare me well for this type of race.
Very tough race, very hard to bring the A game. I'm not sure having a new (first!) GPS watch helped: it allowed me to "optimize" my effort to bring home a piece of Mt. Evans as a prize for running <2:40.
Altitude did not immediately hurt very much, nor did the first grades. Once above treeline, though, every other switchback was either with or against the wind. I lost the mental game a bit early: wind+climbing+O2 depletion made for a good anti-Zak combo starting at about mile 4. There ARE downhill sections on the course, though, which REALLY helped me keep my head. I was getting passed in the last 3 miles due to walking/running/walking. This steep high altitude running is hard! My cardio, strength, and mental game all need to get a bit better before the next attempt at this style of race again (Pikes!).
That said, I finished in time (2:29) to get a nice trophy. My Dad has had his since before I was born: now he and I both have little chunks of granite from Mt. Evans to commemorate the wind, the altitude and the climb! + Show Spoiler +
Not too bad mementat. Mountain running is a whole different beast from anything flat.
35:04 to today, with last 500 in 75....if the GPS is to be believed. Definitely earned me some funny looks
Reason for going so slow was that I ended up pacing my mom. Was her first 5k and it's a pretty big race so she was very nervous and stressed out...wanted to make the experience a little less intimidating for her so I paced her through the race.
Going out for another 5 or 6 soon, might do a tempo then since I was already planning on a hard effort initially.
EDIT: LOL! Just put together the fact that you are on my friends on strava haha. Noticed you said 2:29 and a certain strava friend did and put 2 and 2 together. Somehow missed that the first time...
Not too bad mementat. Mountain running is a whole different beast from anything flat.
35:04 to today, with last 500 in 75....if the GPS is to be believed. Definitely earned me some funny looks
Reason for going so slow was that I ended up pacing my mom. Was her first 5k and it's a pretty big race so she was very nervous and stressed out...wanted to make the experience a little less intimidating for her so I paced her through the race.
Going out for another 5 or 6 soon, might do a tempo then since I was already planning on a hard effort initially.
EDIT: LOL! Just put together the fact that you are on my friends on strava haha. Noticed you said 2:29 and a certain strava friend did and put 2 and 2 together. Somehow missed that the first time...
Ha! Yeah, I forget if you added me or if I cyberstalked and added you, but yes, the text and time should be similar. I actually had a better write-up in the comment submission field on TL, and then accidentally closed the window (fuzzy after race mind).
'Still planning on a scouting run down to Pikes sometime before the actual race, will try to meet up with you then!
Ugh. Anyone else get massive nasal drip after running at altitudes 10,000ft+? I don't have any allergies (that I know of) but right now (post race) my nose is acting like a leaky facet.
I ran Asheville half marathon in North Carolina last weekend and cracked 2 hours for the first time in a half (finally!!) 1:59:51. Plenty of room to continue to improve, so far I've only been improving in my longer distance times which is great.
It was yet another really hilly half, I've been a little low on the milage in recent weeks but I've been working out pretty well so the strength was there, just needed to be in a little better spot cardio wise because I fell apart in the last couple miles again.
Ran the event because my Moms friend is doing a 50 halfs in 50 states challenge and has family in the area and needed to run her North Carolina race. First time visiting that area, it was really nice. Want to go back to do some hiking, some of the tallest mountains in the East are in the blue ridge in that area of the state, was beautiful.
Well, since I didn't race got out for a nice tempo + some easy running. Solid 10 miles on the day + 20 min tempo at about 6:25 pace. Very pleased with that since it was on dirt and VERY windy, and the first tempo I've had since before injury at a clip near my previous ones.
Ran 3x400 w/ full lap slow jog after the tempo going 73, 77, 74. The 73's didn't feel sustainable, but from a speed standpoint the pace felt very controlled, so the strides and sprintwork are definitely doing there part.
The base training is paying off as well. Just gotta keep doing what I'm doing for a couple more months and I should be ready to do some fall damage.
Base is definitely coming back. Did 10 miles in 69 min, and didn't really feel like I was hammering. Not quite what I would call easy, but not brutal either.
That's on par with the stuff I was doing pre-injury. Let's hope I can keep trending up.
Managed a 17k run with an 8k tempo at 3:27/km yesterday. Not nearly as sore this morning as I thought I would be. Feels like my strength is building up, which is tremendously satisfying.
Excited to hear you're coming back online too, L_Master. Also, good on you for pacing your mom. Being a good son is more important than running a PR, IMO.
Congrats, mtmentat! Sound like you had a fun time. What's next on the horizon for you?
On June 18 2014 22:19 Bonham wrote: Managed a 17k run with an 8k tempo at 3:27/km yesterday. Not nearly as sore this morning as I thought I would be. Feels like my strength is building up, which is tremendously satisfying.
Excited to hear you're coming back online too, L_Master. Also, good on you for pacing your mom. Being a good son is more important than running a PR, IMO.
Congrats, mtmentat! Sound like you had a fun time. What's next on the horizon for you?
Next for me is Pike's Peak. It's a long way out, but it will require quite a bit more base/strength.
I ran 5.25 miles at the weekly fun run at 6:00/mile last night. 'Felt a bit harder to maintain than I would like, but I think we're all feeling pretty good this month!
On June 18 2014 22:19 Bonham wrote: Managed a 17k run with an 8k tempo at 3:27/km yesterday. Not nearly as sore this morning as I thought I would be. Feels like my strength is building up, which is tremendously satisfying.
Excited to hear you're coming back online too, L_Master. Also, good on you for pacing your mom. Being a good son is more important than running a PR, IMO.
Congrats, mtmentat! Sound like you had a fun time. What's next on the horizon for you?
Next for me is Pike's Peak. It's a long way out, but it will require quite a bit more base/strength.
I ran 5.25 miles at the weekly fun run at 6:00/mile last night. 'Felt a bit harder to maintain than I would like, but I think we're all feeling pretty good this month!
On June 12 2014 14:45 Adrian_mx wrote: Hey mates, Im looking for a good pair of Under armour running shoes, anyone know of any?
What some of the previous posters said. Even within the same brand and even the same model types, the shoe can change, say from a (Brooks) Ravenna 2 to a Ravenna 4. I got the Saucony Guide 5 and I found it very clunky, and the Guide 7 was a lot more lightweight. If it's your first ever pair - sounds like it is - get a gait analysis and then get your shoes. You don't want neutral shoes if you have flat feet.
My running (note: not "training") up to this point did not prepare me well for this type of race.
Very tough race, very hard to bring the A game. I'm not sure having a new (first!) GPS watch helped: it allowed me to "optimize" my effort to bring home a piece of Mt. Evans as a prize for running <2:40.
Altitude did not immediately hurt very much, nor did the first grades. Once above treeline, though, every other switchback was either with or against the wind. I lost the mental game a bit early: wind+climbing+O2 depletion made for a good anti-Zak combo starting at about mile 4. There ARE downhill sections on the course, though, which REALLY helped me keep my head. I was getting passed in the last 3 miles due to walking/running/walking. This steep high altitude running is hard! My cardio, strength, and mental game all need to get a bit better before the next attempt at this style of race again (Pikes!).
That said, I finished in time (2:29) to get a nice trophy. My Dad has had his since before I was born: now he and I both have little chunks of granite from Mt. Evans to commemorate the wind, the altitude and the climb! + Show Spoiler +
Nothing but respect for finishing that race. It looks crazy.
Had a race today. The odd distance of 9,2k made it insignificant for PR purposes but it was part of a series of races that I run. Goal time was sub 40 and I finished in 39:38 so I'm very pleased. That's a 4:19 pace, my 10k pace a month ago was 4:24. The only thing I'm mad about is that 5 seconds before finishing the 3rd of 4 laps I got lapped by the winner. Sooo close.
On June 21 2014 14:33 Bonham wrote: Hachi machi, LetsRun actually produced a thread worth reading: How do you feel after 35?
Turns out elitist jerks set aside their arrogance when they talk about their failing body parts.
Haha letsrun has tons of good threads...if you know how to have fun with the place.
Anybody besides me (LM) post on there regularly?
I post in the weekly training thread, and often get a good laugh out of some of the other threads. The best bits, for me, are the arguments between CrossFit flamers and running elitists. X_Fit_Guy has given me many a belly laugh. (And yet I am not RIPPED or SHREDDED yet!)
On June 22 2014 03:49 Don_Julio wrote: I only visit /r/running occasionally.
Had a race today. The odd distance of 9,2k made it insignificant for PR purposes but it was part of a series of races that I run. Goal time was sub 40 and I finished in 39:38 so I'm very pleased. That's a 4:19 pace, my 10k pace a month ago was 4:24. The only thing I'm mad about is that 5 seconds before finishing the 3rd of 4 laps I got lapped by the winner. Sooo close.
Congrats Don_Julio! Progress is progress, even if you get lapped. Staying focused on your own race is difficult at times, but ultimately it's the most fulfilling path.
On June 21 2014 14:33 Bonham wrote: Hachi machi, LetsRun actually produced a thread worth reading: How do you feel after 35?
Turns out elitist jerks set aside their arrogance when they talk about their failing body parts.
Haha letsrun has tons of good threads...if you know how to have fun with the place.
Anybody besides me (LM) post on there regularly?
I post in the weekly training thread, and often get a good laugh out of some of the other threads. The best bits, for me, are the arguments between CrossFit flamers and running elitists. X_Fit_Guy has given me many a belly laugh. (And yet I am not RIPPED or SHREDDED yet!)
Haha yea, it's amazing how XFit guy still gets responses after all this time I'd still bet money he is a serious runner having fun. I'm always suprised too how RCS/CliffClavin/A Suck/etc. always make an anti Rupp post before/after every race and without fail get 2+ pages of responses.
Btw, it turns out there actually is a marathon on the track. You should run that for your race, get lapped, and win
On June 23 2014 05:54 L_Master wrote: Btw, it turns out there actually is a marathon on the track. You should run that for your race, get lapped, and win
Oh my goodness, really? That would be around 100 laps, I think. Running that would drive most people insane, I believe.
On June 23 2014 05:54 L_Master wrote: Btw, it turns out there actually is a marathon on the track. You should run that for your race, get lapped, and win
Oh my goodness, really? That would be around 100 laps, I think. Running that would drive most people insane, I believe.
Workout today, 4x800 + 1600. 2 min walk/jog recovery between each so plenty of rest.
2:57, 2:52, 2:49, 2:50, 5:34 (last 200 was somewhere between 29 and 33, just wanted to practice that gear change)
Just a casual summer workout with plenty of recovery to avoid being overly stressful. Felt like it wouldn't hurt to touch on speed once or twice since I'm running low key races the this Saturday and on the 4th.
Preposterous. Do they go right from the race track to a mental institution?
Anyway, good luck in the races! Based on your recent posts, it looks to me like you've maintained some pretty good explosive speed during your injury recovery. I think you'll be abe to put up some impressive times once you get through a base cycle.
19:29 official time. GPS has 3.2miles, so somewhere between 6:15 and 6:10 pace. Would have been nice to be under 19, but this is okay. Been getting in somewhere between 90-120 min each day this week and ignoring my light workout a few days ago that I haven't had time to benefit from this is basically the first time I've done anything under 7 flat, unless you count some sprint work.
Got a little carried away with the first mile in low 5:40's, without any speed it just seemed to take all the sting out of my legs and I really had a hard time turning over any faster than 6:20's where I stayed the rest of the race. Course looks flat, and really it is, but it gently undulates a lot, which made it hard for me to get a really nice rhythm.
Did close well, was even with the person that would go on to finish behind me with 150 to go and ended up 13s ahead. So probably 15.x for last 150 up a gentle gradient.
Racing 4M on Friday, then just more basework till August, with the possibility of doing 400/800/1500 once or twice in August at open Boulder track meets. Hopefully I can run a bit faster on Friday, and I plan on pacing smarter. 24:00 would be really nice, but anything under 25:00 would be respectable since next week is going to be more solid volume.
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on shoes. I went to my local shoe store and they said I tend to walk on the outer part of my foot. My heel is quite narrow and my foot gets wider as it gets to the toes. I run on the tips of my feet. I tried the Mizuno Wave Rider 17s and the Asics Gel-Cumulus 16s and they both felt great. Torn between the two because the Mizuno was lighter (which I prefer) but the Asics definitely had more cushion (which definitely felt great). Been looking up reviews online and it seems like the Nimbus is just a better version of the Cumulus? Any thoughts on that? But I'm also a college student so I'm on a budget. I was looking at the previous models of each shoe and these are what I found: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008KG5G7S/ref=s9_hps_bw_g309_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-4&pf_rd_r=03KPZZ7W53GH0QQSPQAE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1616278602&pf_rd_i=2596689011
Any suggestions on which one I should go for? Is the Nimbus worth the extra $20? I know I said I'm on a budget but I want quality too. So if the extra $20 is worth it for the Nimbus then I'm willing to invest!
Long run today. 32k with first 15.5 @ 4:19/km and last 16 at 3:57/km. It went pretty well, though my fuelling was, as usual, a bit of a challenge for me. Could only manage to eat eight of the 12 gummy bears I brought along.
Feeling a bit nervous about next week. The plan calls for the same distance with the last half at race pace (3:40/km). We'll see how I do. I am now done four weeks of the Pfitz plan and I definitely feel I've been getting stronger, so I suppose I have reason to be optimistic.
Also, I joined Strava yesterday after a training buddy suggested it. It seems to be pretty fun! Is it worthwhile to connect with people who don't run in the same city as you?
On June 30 2014 06:46 Bonham wrote: Long run today. 32k with first 15.5 @ 4:19/km and last 16 at 3:57/km. It went pretty well, though my fuelling was, as usual, a bit of a challenge for me. Could only manage to eat eight of the 12 gummy bears I brought along.
Feeling a bit nervous about next week. The plan calls for the same distance with the last half at race pace (3:40/km). We'll see how I do. I am now done four weeks of the Pfitz plan and I definitely feel I've been getting stronger, so I suppose I have reason to be optimistic.
Also, I joined Strava yesterday after a training buddy suggested it. It seems to be pretty fun! Is it worthwhile to connect with people who don't run in the same city as you?
I can only dream of a long run like that. One day.
As for strava, I don't really know if it would...guess it would depend on what you want to use it for. Not having a GPS watch I like it for giving me mile splits and the fact that you can get quick readings on the elevation changes of the run. The whole KOM thing is fun for cycling too...it's a little easier to get away with hammering a segment cycling that it is with running.
I'm sure you'll catch me up (or surpass me) eventually. I think you're a couple years younger than me, so your best marathoning days are definitely in front of you.
I'm sure you'll catch me up (or surpass me) eventually. I think you're a couple years younger than me, so your best marathoning days are definitely in front of you.
Haha that all depends on talent level. Who knows how good either of us can be, maybe you are a guy with 2:15 potential! Unless you are in your late 30s or older...in which case yea I'll probably catch you since I don't see myself ever not running.
But not necessarily at the marathon. I might eventually run one, but I don't see that as my main schtick. I love my track intervals and hard fast races :D
Haha that all depends on talent level. Who knows how good either of us can be, maybe you are a guy with 2:15 potential! Unless you are in your late 30s or older...in which case yea I'll probably catch you since I don't see myself ever not running.
But not necessarily at the marathon. I might eventually run one, but I don't see that as my main schtick. I love my track intervals and hard fast races :D
I'm over a decade away from late 30s, but I'm not sure a 2:15 is a realistic goal for me. That takes some pretty serious genes.
I think I'd be more into shorter distances if I'd run in school and knew more about getting into decent local 5s and 10s. For me, there's no real way to find a race with the same sense of occasion as a marathon except, you know, a marathon. Plus I am past my prime the fast-twitch fibres you need to really push sub-5 miles and sub-15 5ks–though the record will show I could dunk pretty good at one point!
I have a race in two hours. I'm going to win it probably because it starts at the halftime of Germany-France and everyone else is going to watch the match. I have to run it though because it's the last one of the cup I'm running in and I already missed one of the races. It's hot and humid. FUN!
update: Finished the hilly 8,8k with a 4:24 min/km pace. I can run faster usually but I'm quite pleased with the result considering the weather and course. I didn't win but scored a lot of points I think and had a nice battle with my competitiors. I crushed them at the last of the 4 laps.
Today was much better. Ran 24:27 off a very conservative 6:25 opening mile. So basically at or under 6:00 pace the rest of the way. Course is net downhill a little, but also gravel/sandy...probably similar in speed to a nice, pancake flat road 5k.
Really though I ought to have been closer to 24 flat, as I just checked out, not even bitched out tbh, somewhere in the last mile and ran about 6:40 pace for 600-800m...lost a lot of time. Then didn't attack this steep 10% 150m hill about 400 out from the finish like I should have.
Did close in 30 though, making up about 40m on the guy in front of me in the span of 150-200m
Basically this race was a good confirmation my fitnes is about where I thought it was. Being able to run somewhere between 18:20-18:50 in just base training isn't too bad given where I am coming from, and just being able to run and train consistently is a blessing in and of itself after 2 years of injury and doubt.
Now for another 4-6 weeks of base, with maybe a track race or two and a road 5k in there, before we really start the serious windup for some fall racing.
Hold that record proudly! I beat Jager my senior year cross country at conference... he might have been a freshman, and now is the american record holder in the steeple..but still! Nice run.
Hold that record proudly! I beat Jager my senior year cross country at conference... he might have been a freshman, and now is the american record holder in the steeple..but still! Nice run.
Haha wow that's actually kinda crazy, and a much more even MU than 66 vs 24
Hold that record proudly! I beat Jager my senior year cross country at conference... he might have been a freshman, and now is the american record holder in the steeple..but still! Nice run.
Haha wow that's actually kinda crazy, and a much more even MU than 66 vs 24
What times did you guys run then?
I can't find results online, but I think something in the 16:xxs for 3mi. That's all glory day stuff, no where near that now.
I managed this week's big test, another 32k long run, with some encouraging results. Trotted through the first 15.5k at 4:25/km, then hit the next 16k (that's 10 miles to you imperial types) in 58:27. This is just faster than goal race pace.
I find this especially heartening for two reasons. One: it's my first successful stretch of running goal race pace for more than 5k. Two: this was a challenging week. It got quite hot (by Albertan standards, anyway) and some of my workouts went very badly as a result.
Secret bonus third reason: I ate all 12 gummie bears this time and didn't puke! Progress.
How do you guys deal with your legs not being able to keep up with the rest of your body? I personally feel like (cardiovascularly) I could go quite a bit further, but there's always some part of my legs that won't keep up. Shin splints, runner's knee, sore feet, sore calves, etc. I am fairly new to running, so does this go away with time, or am I just doing too much too fast (4 days a week, currently at 5kish distances)? How can I go about constructing a running schedule if I do not know when and where my legs will give up next (every plan I've made so far I've been forced to abort)? I'm not covering much distance, so I doubt it's excessive mileage. I just get down when I know I'm ready to keep going, but out of the blue something in my legs just says "no."
I am super excited to improve, I really hope to be able to run something like a marathon someday (currently working towards a reasonably paced 10k)! I just need to get past these nub stages. Thanks TL.
I feel your pain on the heat, it's been hot here too. 98 for the high today! Really saps the energy...and if you don't get out of it the recovery as well.
PS: why gummy bears of all things, seems like a strange food to take in. Simple sugars I guess but seems hard to chew/digest
mtmentat - Since I can stalk you on strava, I'm able to see that many of your general mileage runs are pretty good cruisin, often well below 7 flat pace. Are you in solid 16:xx shape or better, or just have a preference for hammering easy days?
Flying Potato - Mileage shouldn't be an issue, no. In fact mileage is rarely the culprit unless you really made a significant jump way to quick for your body.
It's important to be able to distinguish sore from sore and sore from "aw shit, this is an injury coming on". If you are just sore, you can run through that no problem. If it's an injury coming on, then generally you don't want to. Rule of thumb is if you have injury type pain you can try to run...if it gets better as the run goes on, train on! If it remains or worsens, quit running for the day, ice, and take a day or two off.
The nagging stuff will pass with time, but if you are training well there is always the specter of possible injury lurking around. The other thing to check is your pace. At this stage in your running your runs should be EASY. Almost "this is so easy I'm not getting a workout" easy. If you have weight to lose, losing weight will help as well since it reduces the impact forces.
PS: why gummy bears of all things, seems like a strange food to take in. Simple sugars I guess but seems hard to chew/digest
It's because that's what will be available as the on-course food at the Portland Marathon. I often have difficulties with eating during long runs, so this cycle I am trying to not only practice getting calories in mid-workout but getting my body used to the exact kind of food that will be on the course.
Man being out of shape and not really being used to that anymore has to be one of the worst feelings. My body does not do what I expect anymore. (I just wanted to QQ a bit :D )
On July 07 2014 13:58 L_Master wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________________________
mtmentat - Since I can stalk you on strava, I'm able to see that many of your general mileage runs are pretty good cruisin, often well below 7 flat pace. Are you in solid 16:xx shape or better, or just have a preference for hammering easy days?
I have a bad habit of going a bit too hard/fast during general mileage runs. 7min/mile just seems like a sweet spot for me. I've been trying to focus on breathing easier, slowing down a little bit on mileage-building runs. There's no reason to push it on these, especially with the heat and the potential for an Achilles flare-up. You spotted it: I'm definitely not in solid shape (probably high 17+ 5k on a good day).
Shit is getting real, though, as I'm slated for another hill climb in a month (La Luz Trail Run). Making that goal is probably going to be harder than my Mt Evans goal was, and so I'm going to be buckling down on diet and training to hopefully be at my best.
On July 07 2014 13:58 L_Master wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________________________
mtmentat - Since I can stalk you on strava, I'm able to see that many of your general mileage runs are pretty good cruisin, often well below 7 flat pace. Are you in solid 16:xx shape or better, or just have a preference for hammering easy days?
I have a bad habit of going a bit too hard/fast during general mileage runs. 7min/mile just seems like a sweet spot for me. I've been trying to focus on breathing easier, slowing down a little bit on mileage-building runs. There's no reason to push it on these, especially with the heat and the potential for an Achilles flare-up. You spotted it: I'm definitely not in solid shape (probably high 17+ 5k on a good day).
Shit is getting real, though, as I'm slated for another hill climb in a month (La Luz Trail Run). Making that goal is probably going to be harder than my Mt Evans goal was, and so I'm going to be buckling down on diet and training to hopefully be at my best.
Speaking of Strava: TL Runner's Club?
That actually sounds like a cool idea, and if we could get a few more of you guys using Strava it would be fun to see what everyone is up to.
As for the easy run thing, I've seen the aggressive approach to easy runs work well for some guys, especially in just base phases. Not so much when coupled with harder training closer to race season. Other types can't do it at all.
I'd imagine 7 flat pace doesn't feel hard to you, but probably isn't quite easy either unless you're really on. General tables like Daniels, or Canova/AlSal's opinion of easy day pace(5k + 1:30-1:45 per mile) has always felt about right to me with Daniels VDOT being the conservative end, and 5k + 1:30 being the quicker end, though on a really good day I could probably run within a minute per mile of 5k pace and feel like I'm cruising nicely.
If you guys don't use Strava, I rather recommend trying it. It keeps everything together nicely, gives mile by mile splits, and gives a nice elevation readout as soon as you finish your run/ride.
Not to mention it has the little competitive feature of segments if you want to test yourself against other runners/cyclist over a certain section of ground.
Also, ice baths are amazing. Hit one up yesterday after my long run, and felt good enough in my afternoon run today that I decided to race a popular marked mile around here. I clocked a 4:53!
On July 05 2014 13:27 Bonham wrote: This is all totally amazing. Shorter and Jager ain't got nothing on TL!
Hehehe, my own [extemely dubious] claim to fame is having finished ahead of Naoko Takahashi (women's Gold in Marathon, 2000 Sydney Olympics) in a local 10K in 2012.
On July 08 2014 09:26 Bonham wrote: Just joined the Strava club. Yeehaw!
Also, ice baths are amazing. Hit one up yesterday after my long run, and felt good enough in my afternoon run today that I decided to race a popular marked mile around here. I clocked a 4:53!
Awesome! Of course you've both pushed me down to the very depths of the club leader board... ....which is great inspiration to get some better miles in!
I've been on Strava for a while, but I don't think I've logged a single run on there yet lol. Looks like now I have motivation to start using it haha! Joined the group.
I have some weight problems so I run for a few months. I am 1.77 meters and about 86 kg weight. Initially without a proper guidance I just run for 20 minutes after a 5 min walk(walk 6km/h, run between 9-10 km/h). After the run I did some cross-trainer and bicycle for other 20 mins each. I didn't regulate my alcohol intake and stay at the same weight while building a considerable amount of muscle in legs(relative to the start).
Question is, my trainer schedule me a different running regime in which I do 3 mins walk and 7 mins running in 3 sets and finish with a 5 min walk at the end(35 mins total without stopping). If I keep walks at 6 km/h and runs around 9-9.5 km/h, I do the exercise in a healthy fashion but if i increase the running speed to 10.5 km/h, then my heart rate goes crazy(peaks up to 180+, which is not advised at my age 27). For a steady run, I am about to sustain 10+ km/h for 20 mins but I feel like I am dragged with this regime.
I heard this type of training is better(it is similar to HIIT) but I am not sure my schedule is proper in terms of weight loss and overall health. I appreciate for every advice on intervals and speeds etc..
My goal in the end is get rid of the belly fat and sustain a good running rhythm which eventually lead me to a half marathon in long term.
then my heart rate goes crazy(peaks up to 180+, which is not advised at my age 27)
I don't know who is doing the advising, but having your HR up high is not a bad thing, and for a 27 year old guy 180 isn't even super high just based of formula's. It is however a little too hard to be running at first as you adapt. For most of your runs I'd rather see a HR of 65% of max give or take, which is probably in the neighborhood of 120-135.
HIIT...aka interval work is neither 'better' nor 'worse' than steady running. Both are part of a training program and a combination of both is needed for optimum training. For a newer running though, it's best to stay away from harder stuff until your body has adapted to running some. Your first priority should just be building a solid base, get to where you are running 5-6 days a week for a total of 40-60km per week. Don't do this suddenly, but gradual build. First week might be 3 runs of 5k, then you add a day each week, so a month later you are running 6x per week. Then add a little length to the runs and you're there. At that point you're ready to think about adding some actual running workouts.
Remember runs at this point should be easy, if you do know your max HR...65% is a good guideline. If not, just go by what is quite easy. You should feel like you could sing some, and the pace ought to feel like one that would be no problem to hold for several hours.
then my heart rate goes crazy(peaks up to 180+, which is not advised at my age 27)
I don't know who is doing the advising, but having your HR up high is not a bad thing, and for a 27 year old guy 180 isn't even super high just based of formula's. It is however a little too hard to be running at first as you adapt. For most of your runs I'd rather see a HR of 65% of max give or take, which is probably in the neighborhood of 120-135.
HIIT...aka interval work is neither 'better' nor 'worse' than steady running. Both are part of a training program and a combination of both is needed for optimum training. For a newer running though, it's best to stay away from harder stuff until your body has adapted to running some. Your first priority should just be building a solid base, get to where you are running 5-6 days a week for a total of 40-60km per week. Don't do this suddenly, but gradual build. First week might be 3 runs of 5k, then you add a day each week, so a month later you are running 6x per week. Then add a little length to the runs and you're there. At that point you're ready to think about adding some actual running workouts.
Remember runs at this point should be easy, if you do know your max HR...65% is a good guideline. If not, just go by what is quite easy. You should feel like you could sing some, and the pace ought to feel like one that would be no problem to hold for several hours.
For me, there is no such thing as an easy "run" lol. I don't think there is a pace that I could run at for several hours if I had to, but if I speed walked I definitely could. I would like to run rather than walk though (as much as possible anyways). Do you think I should start by simply exercising for an hour, while running as much as possible as slow as possible and speed walking when I have to? I'm considering something like 4 days a week, with this as a general guideline, and when I can actually run the whole 60 minutes I would start considering specific workout plans. If this isn't a bad idea, do you think that I should try to mix up the runs, like 1 day I try to run at a faster pace, one day I try to do some sprints at the end, one day I exercise for longer than usual, and one day would be the standard 60 minutes?
then my heart rate goes crazy(peaks up to 180+, which is not advised at my age 27)
I don't know who is doing the advising, but having your HR up high is not a bad thing, and for a 27 year old guy 180 isn't even super high just based of formula's. It is however a little too hard to be running at first as you adapt. For most of your runs I'd rather see a HR of 65% of max give or take, which is probably in the neighborhood of 120-135.
HIIT...aka interval work is neither 'better' nor 'worse' than steady running. Both are part of a training program and a combination of both is needed for optimum training. For a newer running though, it's best to stay away from harder stuff until your body has adapted to running some. Your first priority should just be building a solid base, get to where you are running 5-6 days a week for a total of 40-60km per week. Don't do this suddenly, but gradual build. First week might be 3 runs of 5k, then you add a day each week, so a month later you are running 6x per week. Then add a little length to the runs and you're there. At that point you're ready to think about adding some actual running workouts.
Remember runs at this point should be easy, if you do know your max HR...65% is a good guideline. If not, just go by what is quite easy. You should feel like you could sing some, and the pace ought to feel like one that would be no problem to hold for several hours.
For me, there is no such thing as an easy "run" lol. I don't think there is a pace that I could run at for several hours if I had to, but if I speed walked I definitely could. I would like to run rather than walk though (as much as possible anyways). Do you think I should start by simply exercising for an hour, while running as much as possible as slow as possible and speed walking when I have to? I'm considering something like 4 days a week, with this as a general guideline, and when I can actually run the whole 60 minutes I would start considering specific workout plans. If this isn't a bad idea, do you think that I should try to mix up the runs, like 1 day I try to run at a faster pace, one day I try to do some sprints at the end, one day I exercise for longer than usual, and one day would be the standard 60 minutes?
Btw, I'm not the guy you were responding to.
Sure there is. The several hours thing refers to aerobically challenged. As a new runner, running for several hours would still be very tiring because the body hasn't adapted to the stress of running and muscles would become fatigued. But aerobically you could still feel fine, breathing controlled and not anywhere near the point of it hurting.
60 minutes is probably a little aggressive at first, I'd start more in the 30-45 min range and build frequency until you are running 5-6 days a week, then up the volume some.
You definitely should not be running hard enough that you have to walk. It might mean running at near walking speeds at first for it to be easy, and that is fine. What I'd also recommend is after each run you do 4-6 20 second bursts at just a little under an all out sprint. 2-3 minutes of walking between each, because these are NOT meant to be hard in any way. They just help you stay in contact with speed and good running form.
then my heart rate goes crazy(peaks up to 180+, which is not advised at my age 27)
I don't know who is doing the advising, but having your HR up high is not a bad thing, and for a 27 year old guy 180 isn't even super high just based of formula's. It is however a little too hard to be running at first as you adapt. For most of your runs I'd rather see a HR of 65% of max give or take, which is probably in the neighborhood of 120-135.
HIIT...aka interval work is neither 'better' nor 'worse' than steady running. Both are part of a training program and a combination of both is needed for optimum training. For a newer running though, it's best to stay away from harder stuff until your body has adapted to running some. Your first priority should just be building a solid base, get to where you are running 5-6 days a week for a total of 40-60km per week. Don't do this suddenly, but gradual build. First week might be 3 runs of 5k, then you add a day each week, so a month later you are running 6x per week. Then add a little length to the runs and you're there. At that point you're ready to think about adding some actual running workouts.
Remember runs at this point should be easy, if you do know your max HR...65% is a good guideline. If not, just go by what is quite easy. You should feel like you could sing some, and the pace ought to feel like one that would be no problem to hold for several hours.
For me, there is no such thing as an easy "run" lol. I don't think there is a pace that I could run at for several hours if I had to, but if I speed walked I definitely could. I would like to run rather than walk though (as much as possible anyways). Do you think I should start by simply exercising for an hour, while running as much as possible as slow as possible and speed walking when I have to? I'm considering something like 4 days a week, with this as a general guideline, and when I can actually run the whole 60 minutes I would start considering specific workout plans. If this isn't a bad idea, do you think that I should try to mix up the runs, like 1 day I try to run at a faster pace, one day I try to do some sprints at the end, one day I exercise for longer than usual, and one day would be the standard 60 minutes?
Btw, I'm not the guy you were responding to.
Sure there is. The several hours thing refers to aerobically challenged. As a new runner, running for several hours would still be very tiring because the body hasn't adapted to the stress of running and muscles would become fatigued. But aerobically you could still feel fine, breathing controlled and not anywhere near the point of it hurting.
60 minutes is probably a little aggressive at first, I'd start more in the 30-45 min range and build frequency until you are running 5-6 days a week, then up the volume some.
You definitely should not be running hard enough that you have to walk. It might mean running at near walking speeds at first for it to be easy, and that is fine. What I'd also recommend is after each run you do 4-6 20 second bursts at just a little under an all out sprint. 2-3 minutes of walking between each, because these are NOT meant to be hard in any way. They just help you stay in contact with speed and good running form.
So you would recommend uping days ran first over time ran, and avoiding walking? The 20 second almost all out thing was what I was referring to with the sprint day. What base ought I establish first before I follow a more rigid running plan, and do I need to incorporate different types of runs at this level? Thanks for da help masta
then my heart rate goes crazy(peaks up to 180+, which is not advised at my age 27)
I don't know who is doing the advising, but having your HR up high is not a bad thing, and for a 27 year old guy 180 isn't even super high just based of formula's. It is however a little too hard to be running at first as you adapt. For most of your runs I'd rather see a HR of 65% of max give or take, which is probably in the neighborhood of 120-135.
HIIT...aka interval work is neither 'better' nor 'worse' than steady running. Both are part of a training program and a combination of both is needed for optimum training. For a newer running though, it's best to stay away from harder stuff until your body has adapted to running some. Your first priority should just be building a solid base, get to where you are running 5-6 days a week for a total of 40-60km per week. Don't do this suddenly, but gradual build. First week might be 3 runs of 5k, then you add a day each week, so a month later you are running 6x per week. Then add a little length to the runs and you're there. At that point you're ready to think about adding some actual running workouts.
Remember runs at this point should be easy, if you do know your max HR...65% is a good guideline. If not, just go by what is quite easy. You should feel like you could sing some, and the pace ought to feel like one that would be no problem to hold for several hours.
For me, there is no such thing as an easy "run" lol. I don't think there is a pace that I could run at for several hours if I had to, but if I speed walked I definitely could. I would like to run rather than walk though (as much as possible anyways). Do you think I should start by simply exercising for an hour, while running as much as possible as slow as possible and speed walking when I have to? I'm considering something like 4 days a week, with this as a general guideline, and when I can actually run the whole 60 minutes I would start considering specific workout plans. If this isn't a bad idea, do you think that I should try to mix up the runs, like 1 day I try to run at a faster pace, one day I try to do some sprints at the end, one day I exercise for longer than usual, and one day would be the standard 60 minutes?
Btw, I'm not the guy you were responding to.
Sure there is. The several hours thing refers to aerobically challenged. As a new runner, running for several hours would still be very tiring because the body hasn't adapted to the stress of running and muscles would become fatigued. But aerobically you could still feel fine, breathing controlled and not anywhere near the point of it hurting.
60 minutes is probably a little aggressive at first, I'd start more in the 30-45 min range and build frequency until you are running 5-6 days a week, then up the volume some.
You definitely should not be running hard enough that you have to walk. It might mean running at near walking speeds at first for it to be easy, and that is fine. What I'd also recommend is after each run you do 4-6 20 second bursts at just a little under an all out sprint. 2-3 minutes of walking between each, because these are NOT meant to be hard in any way. They just help you stay in contact with speed and good running form.
So you would recommend uping days ran first over time ran, and avoiding walking? The 20 second almost all out thing was what I was referring to with the sprint day. What base ought I establish first before I follow a more rigid running plan, and do I need to incorporate different types of runs at this level? Thanks for da help masta
Nah at this level you don't need to incorporate anything much fancier. You just want to get some aerobic base, and strengthen the structural system (bones/ligaments/tendon/etc.) so that you're body is prepared for harder, faster training.
I would up the days first over time because in general more shorter runs are less stressful on the body than fewer longer runs.
As for the faster stuff, if you wanted to do one true sprint day that is fine as well. If so I'd alternate between hill sprints (5-10% grade is ideal) and flying 60s on the track. After each sprint walk for at least 3-5 minutes...it takes that long for solid sprint recovery. I'd start at 2-3 of each, and graduall build each week until you are doing 6-8 sprints.
The "sprints" after the regular easy runs aren't really sprints. They shouldn't be all out, but they should feel a little "sprinty" if that makes sense. The idea is to stay in touch neuromuscular with speed, and develop good stride mechanics. Running fast helps promote this, because it's much harder to have bad form when you are really running fast.
then my heart rate goes crazy(peaks up to 180+, which is not advised at my age 27)
I don't know who is doing the advising, but having your HR up high is not a bad thing, and for a 27 year old guy 180 isn't even super high just based of formula's. It is however a little too hard to be running at first as you adapt. For most of your runs I'd rather see a HR of 65% of max give or take, which is probably in the neighborhood of 120-135.
HIIT...aka interval work is neither 'better' nor 'worse' than steady running. Both are part of a training program and a combination of both is needed for optimum training. For a newer running though, it's best to stay away from harder stuff until your body has adapted to running some. Your first priority should just be building a solid base, get to where you are running 5-6 days a week for a total of 40-60km per week. Don't do this suddenly, but gradual build. First week might be 3 runs of 5k, then you add a day each week, so a month later you are running 6x per week. Then add a little length to the runs and you're there. At that point you're ready to think about adding some actual running workouts.
Remember runs at this point should be easy, if you do know your max HR...65% is a good guideline. If not, just go by what is quite easy. You should feel like you could sing some, and the pace ought to feel like one that would be no problem to hold for several hours.
For me, there is no such thing as an easy "run" lol. I don't think there is a pace that I could run at for several hours if I had to, but if I speed walked I definitely could. I would like to run rather than walk though (as much as possible anyways). Do you think I should start by simply exercising for an hour, while running as much as possible as slow as possible and speed walking when I have to? I'm considering something like 4 days a week, with this as a general guideline, and when I can actually run the whole 60 minutes I would start considering specific workout plans. If this isn't a bad idea, do you think that I should try to mix up the runs, like 1 day I try to run at a faster pace, one day I try to do some sprints at the end, one day I exercise for longer than usual, and one day would be the standard 60 minutes?
Btw, I'm not the guy you were responding to.
Sure there is. The several hours thing refers to aerobically challenged. As a new runner, running for several hours would still be very tiring because the body hasn't adapted to the stress of running and muscles would become fatigued. But aerobically you could still feel fine, breathing controlled and not anywhere near the point of it hurting.
60 minutes is probably a little aggressive at first, I'd start more in the 30-45 min range and build frequency until you are running 5-6 days a week, then up the volume some.
You definitely should not be running hard enough that you have to walk. It might mean running at near walking speeds at first for it to be easy, and that is fine. What I'd also recommend is after each run you do 4-6 20 second bursts at just a little under an all out sprint. 2-3 minutes of walking between each, because these are NOT meant to be hard in any way. They just help you stay in contact with speed and good running form.
So you would recommend uping days ran first over time ran, and avoiding walking? The 20 second almost all out thing was what I was referring to with the sprint day. What base ought I establish first before I follow a more rigid running plan, and do I need to incorporate different types of runs at this level? Thanks for da help masta
Nah at this level you don't need to incorporate anything much fancier. You just want to get some aerobic base, and strengthen the structural system (bones/ligaments/tendon/etc.) so that you're body is prepared for harder, faster training.
I would up the days first over time because in general more shorter runs are less stressful on the body than fewer longer runs.
As for the faster stuff, if you wanted to do one true sprint day that is fine as well. If so I'd alternate between hill sprints (5-10% grade is ideal) and flying 60s on the track. After each sprint walk for at least 3-5 minutes...it takes that long for solid sprint recovery. I'd start at 2-3 of each, and graduall build each week until you are doing 6-8 sprints.
The "sprints" after the regular easy runs aren't really sprints. They shouldn't be all out, but they should feel a little "sprinty" if that makes sense. The idea is to stay in touch neuromuscular with speed, and develop good stride mechanics. Running fast helps promote this, because it's much harder to have bad form when you are really running fast.
Yeah I get what you mean. Right now it's less about goal setting/PRing and more about getting to the point where I can run consistently and without much risk of injury. I never thought about how running faster encourages better form, maybe that's why I feel the need to push myself too hard when running. Do you feel that weight lifting is advisable at all, or at least not in contrast with my ultimate goal (to run long distance well)? Nothing overly severe, just three days a week of mostly upper body training. I haven't been lifting for running reasons really, just for general fitness.
then my heart rate goes crazy(peaks up to 180+, which is not advised at my age 27)
I don't know who is doing the advising, but having your HR up high is not a bad thing, and for a 27 year old guy 180 isn't even super high just based of formula's. It is however a little too hard to be running at first as you adapt. For most of your runs I'd rather see a HR of 65% of max give or take, which is probably in the neighborhood of 120-135.
HIIT...aka interval work is neither 'better' nor 'worse' than steady running. Both are part of a training program and a combination of both is needed for optimum training. For a newer running though, it's best to stay away from harder stuff until your body has adapted to running some. Your first priority should just be building a solid base, get to where you are running 5-6 days a week for a total of 40-60km per week. Don't do this suddenly, but gradual build. First week might be 3 runs of 5k, then you add a day each week, so a month later you are running 6x per week. Then add a little length to the runs and you're there. At that point you're ready to think about adding some actual running workouts.
Remember runs at this point should be easy, if you do know your max HR...65% is a good guideline. If not, just go by what is quite easy. You should feel like you could sing some, and the pace ought to feel like one that would be no problem to hold for several hours.
For me, there is no such thing as an easy "run" lol. I don't think there is a pace that I could run at for several hours if I had to, but if I speed walked I definitely could. I would like to run rather than walk though (as much as possible anyways). Do you think I should start by simply exercising for an hour, while running as much as possible as slow as possible and speed walking when I have to? I'm considering something like 4 days a week, with this as a general guideline, and when I can actually run the whole 60 minutes I would start considering specific workout plans. If this isn't a bad idea, do you think that I should try to mix up the runs, like 1 day I try to run at a faster pace, one day I try to do some sprints at the end, one day I exercise for longer than usual, and one day would be the standard 60 minutes?
Btw, I'm not the guy you were responding to.
Sure there is. The several hours thing refers to aerobically challenged. As a new runner, running for several hours would still be very tiring because the body hasn't adapted to the stress of running and muscles would become fatigued. But aerobically you could still feel fine, breathing controlled and not anywhere near the point of it hurting.
60 minutes is probably a little aggressive at first, I'd start more in the 30-45 min range and build frequency until you are running 5-6 days a week, then up the volume some.
You definitely should not be running hard enough that you have to walk. It might mean running at near walking speeds at first for it to be easy, and that is fine. What I'd also recommend is after each run you do 4-6 20 second bursts at just a little under an all out sprint. 2-3 minutes of walking between each, because these are NOT meant to be hard in any way. They just help you stay in contact with speed and good running form.
So you would recommend uping days ran first over time ran, and avoiding walking? The 20 second almost all out thing was what I was referring to with the sprint day. What base ought I establish first before I follow a more rigid running plan, and do I need to incorporate different types of runs at this level? Thanks for da help masta
Nah at this level you don't need to incorporate anything much fancier. You just want to get some aerobic base, and strengthen the structural system (bones/ligaments/tendon/etc.) so that you're body is prepared for harder, faster training.
I would up the days first over time because in general more shorter runs are less stressful on the body than fewer longer runs.
As for the faster stuff, if you wanted to do one true sprint day that is fine as well. If so I'd alternate between hill sprints (5-10% grade is ideal) and flying 60s on the track. After each sprint walk for at least 3-5 minutes...it takes that long for solid sprint recovery. I'd start at 2-3 of each, and graduall build each week until you are doing 6-8 sprints.
The "sprints" after the regular easy runs aren't really sprints. They shouldn't be all out, but they should feel a little "sprinty" if that makes sense. The idea is to stay in touch neuromuscular with speed, and develop good stride mechanics. Running fast helps promote this, because it's much harder to have bad form when you are really running fast.
Yeah I get what you mean. Right now it's less about goal setting/PRing and more about getting to the point where I can run consistently and without much risk of injury. I never thought about how running faster encourages better form, maybe that's why I feel the need to push myself too hard when running. Do you feel that weight lifting is advisable at all, or at least not in contrast with my ultimate goal (to run long distance well)? Nothing overly severe, just three days a week of mostly upper body training. I haven't been lifting for running reasons really, just for general fitness.
If you're going to lift for distance running, you want to include the lower body and lift heavy and explosively. The idea is that you get your endurance/distance stimulus from running training, and because of the idea of specificity if you want more endurance work just go run more.
So, you end up using the gym training to improve speed side capabilities...essentially your CNS able to recruit muscle fibers as well as explosiveness and speed. Lifting heavy is ideal, because it doesn't promote as much hypertrophy...getting bigger, especially in the upper body, is generally not beneficial to distance running. Getting stronger however is. As far as actual lifting goes, think things like squats, bench, cleans, snatch, plyometrics, etc. Some of those if you are new you might not want to start out lifting heavy and explosive (3-5 rep range for a set) until your technique is good, but that would be the ideal distance weightlifting regimen. Some core work never hurts.
All that said, if you are also just trying to look good...nothing wrong with some normal hypertrophy type lifting. An extra 10 lbs of upper body muscle isn't going to be the end of the world, unless you are say...trying to get from 13:20 in the 5k down to 13:10.
then my heart rate goes crazy(peaks up to 180+, which is not advised at my age 27)
I don't know who is doing the advising, but having your HR up high is not a bad thing, and for a 27 year old guy 180 isn't even super high just based of formula's. It is however a little too hard to be running at first as you adapt. For most of your runs I'd rather see a HR of 65% of max give or take, which is probably in the neighborhood of 120-135.
HIIT...aka interval work is neither 'better' nor 'worse' than steady running. Both are part of a training program and a combination of both is needed for optimum training. For a newer running though, it's best to stay away from harder stuff until your body has adapted to running some. Your first priority should just be building a solid base, get to where you are running 5-6 days a week for a total of 40-60km per week. Don't do this suddenly, but gradual build. First week might be 3 runs of 5k, then you add a day each week, so a month later you are running 6x per week. Then add a little length to the runs and you're there. At that point you're ready to think about adding some actual running workouts.
Remember runs at this point should be easy, if you do know your max HR...65% is a good guideline. If not, just go by what is quite easy. You should feel like you could sing some, and the pace ought to feel like one that would be no problem to hold for several hours.
For me, there is no such thing as an easy "run" lol. I don't think there is a pace that I could run at for several hours if I had to, but if I speed walked I definitely could. I would like to run rather than walk though (as much as possible anyways). Do you think I should start by simply exercising for an hour, while running as much as possible as slow as possible and speed walking when I have to? I'm considering something like 4 days a week, with this as a general guideline, and when I can actually run the whole 60 minutes I would start considering specific workout plans. If this isn't a bad idea, do you think that I should try to mix up the runs, like 1 day I try to run at a faster pace, one day I try to do some sprints at the end, one day I exercise for longer than usual, and one day would be the standard 60 minutes?
Btw, I'm not the guy you were responding to.
Sure there is. The several hours thing refers to aerobically challenged. As a new runner, running for several hours would still be very tiring because the body hasn't adapted to the stress of running and muscles would become fatigued. But aerobically you could still feel fine, breathing controlled and not anywhere near the point of it hurting.
60 minutes is probably a little aggressive at first, I'd start more in the 30-45 min range and build frequency until you are running 5-6 days a week, then up the volume some.
You definitely should not be running hard enough that you have to walk. It might mean running at near walking speeds at first for it to be easy, and that is fine. What I'd also recommend is after each run you do 4-6 20 second bursts at just a little under an all out sprint. 2-3 minutes of walking between each, because these are NOT meant to be hard in any way. They just help you stay in contact with speed and good running form.
So you would recommend uping days ran first over time ran, and avoiding walking? The 20 second almost all out thing was what I was referring to with the sprint day. What base ought I establish first before I follow a more rigid running plan, and do I need to incorporate different types of runs at this level? Thanks for da help masta
Nah at this level you don't need to incorporate anything much fancier. You just want to get some aerobic base, and strengthen the structural system (bones/ligaments/tendon/etc.) so that you're body is prepared for harder, faster training.
I would up the days first over time because in general more shorter runs are less stressful on the body than fewer longer runs.
As for the faster stuff, if you wanted to do one true sprint day that is fine as well. If so I'd alternate between hill sprints (5-10% grade is ideal) and flying 60s on the track. After each sprint walk for at least 3-5 minutes...it takes that long for solid sprint recovery. I'd start at 2-3 of each, and graduall build each week until you are doing 6-8 sprints.
The "sprints" after the regular easy runs aren't really sprints. They shouldn't be all out, but they should feel a little "sprinty" if that makes sense. The idea is to stay in touch neuromuscular with speed, and develop good stride mechanics. Running fast helps promote this, because it's much harder to have bad form when you are really running fast.
Yeah I get what you mean. Right now it's less about goal setting/PRing and more about getting to the point where I can run consistently and without much risk of injury. I never thought about how running faster encourages better form, maybe that's why I feel the need to push myself too hard when running. Do you feel that weight lifting is advisable at all, or at least not in contrast with my ultimate goal (to run long distance well)? Nothing overly severe, just three days a week of mostly upper body training. I haven't been lifting for running reasons really, just for general fitness.
If you're going to lift for distance running, you want to include the lower body and lift heavy and explosively. The idea is that you get your endurance/distance stimulus from running training, and because of the idea of specificity if you want more endurance work just go run more.
So, you end up using the gym training to improve speed side capabilities...essentially your CNS able to recruit muscle fibers as well as explosiveness and speed. Lifting heavy is ideal, because it doesn't promote as much hypertrophy...getting bigger, especially in the upper body, is generally not beneficial to distance running. Getting stronger however is. As far as actual lifting goes, think things like squats, bench, cleans, snatch, plyometrics, etc. Some of those if you are new you might not want to start out lifting heavy and explosive (3-5 rep range for a set) until your technique is good, but that would be the ideal distance weightlifting regimen. Some core work never hurts.
All that said, if you are also just trying to look good...nothing wrong with some normal hypertrophy type lifting. An extra 10 lbs of upper body muscle isn't going to be the end of the world, unless you are say...trying to get from 13:20 in the 5k down to 13:10.
Wow thanks for the food for thought. My logic was basically that I didn't want to overly fatigue my legs since running fatigues them a good deal anyways. If I manage to reach the upper echelons of distance running I believe I will seriously consider this type of lifting, but for now I think I will stick with some aesthetic improvement, because I am quite skinny and weak haha. I doubt gaining some upper body weight (muscle) will hurt at this point at all, since I don't plan on becoming a monster or anything...
Good luck with your own fitness goals, and thanks for taking the time throughout the day to respond to me!
had a nice race earlier today. It was supposed to be a 5K, but a couple of the leaders took a wrong turn at the beginning and the entire pack followed....by the time we got back on course we added at least .3 to the run.
I came in at 22:49 (6:51/mile) for the 3.41 miles. conditions were brutal too, it was easily 75 degrees (at 8AM...) with 80% humidity so I'm pretty happy with that time. I was kinda stupid and ran 12 miles yesterday too when it probably would have been smarter to just rest.
Still that time was good enough for 3rd in my age group somehow in an event with over 500+ runners. I wasn't expecting to place, but nevertheless kinda lucked out and got my first running trophy of any kind LOL!
(I'm actually pretty happy with my form here. this was during sprint to the finish in last 50M. seems to be a decent forward lean, straight back although shoulders might be rounding a bit, I still have a bad habit of swinging arms across my chest when I start really sprinting which doesn't let me open up hips as nicely)
Does anyone have any advice for blisters? Some New Balance shoes I thought I had made peace with betrayed me on Thursday and half of my left heel is now one big blister. Any tips to make it go away fast beyond "don't pop it" would be appreciated. I've managed to avoid breaking it so far thanks to my trusty adizeros, but it's quite uncomfortable and I just want it to go away.
On July 14 2014 14:06 Bonham wrote: Does anyone have any advice for blisters? Some New Balance shoes I thought I had made peace with betrayed me on Thursday and half of my left heel is now one big blister. Any tips to make it go away fast beyond "don't pop it" would be appreciated. I've managed to avoid breaking it so far thanks to my trusty adizeros, but it's quite uncomfortable and I just want it to go away.
I wish I had some good advice on getting rid of them once they show up but I don't. Blisters are the body's annoying way of telling us we did something wrong. Prevention - paying attention to how your feet feel during a run - is the best thing in my experience. Blisters are literally the skin layers shearing apart, so letting cells divide normally is the healthiest option. (The fluid helps promote new cell growth and speeds regeneration.)
If it's really a big blister, I'd stress not popping it. The bigger the blister, the deeper your skin is exposed and popping the blister would make it more painful than before. Sorry my advice isn't what you wanted to hear
On July 14 2014 14:06 Bonham wrote: Does anyone have any advice for blisters? Some New Balance shoes I thought I had made peace with betrayed me on Thursday and half of my left heel is now one big blister. Any tips to make it go away fast beyond "don't pop it" would be appreciated. I've managed to avoid breaking it so far thanks to my trusty adizeros, but it's quite uncomfortable and I just want it to go away.
Duct tape. I'm serious. Slap some of that over the blister and it reduces the friction massively, to the point where I could usually run right after.
@Rob - Nice race given the added distance and the heat/humidity. Those temps are worth at least 10s/mile in my opinion. Looks like you're in a good place with your summer base work.
I'm up here currently near Vancouver, WA enjoying some sea level fun. And some brutal heat and humidity. Did one run in 102 + humid, was was pure misery.
Best run was yesterday, where I essentially just cruised 10M in a little under 67 min, so about 6:40 pace. Didn't even feel like I was working too hard either. Maybe not quiet easy, but very much aerobic and under control. Will be fun to see how the tempo goes.
Oddly, I can't seem to ride any faster here. Part of that is that the trail is curvy, but even on flats I'm still only able to cruise 20-22. Perhaps that's an air resistance v increases wattage thing, with resistance equal ing the increased wattage.
On July 14 2014 14:06 Bonham wrote: Does anyone have any advice for blisters? Some New Balance shoes I thought I had made peace with betrayed me on Thursday and half of my left heel is now one big blister. Any tips to make it go away fast beyond "don't pop it" would be appreciated. I've managed to avoid breaking it so far thanks to my trusty adizeros, but it's quite uncomfortable and I just want it to go away.
Duct tape. I'm serious. Slap some of that over the blister and it reduces the friction massively, to the point where I could usually run right after.
THIS. Or, if you want to over-engineer it, you can get some nice athletic adhesive tape (1.5" white/tan stuff with a little bit of texture but not enough to increase friction), apply it, and then put duct tape over it to have a very nice friction-killing layer.
On July 15 2014 00:47 L_Master wrote: I'm up here currently near Vancouver, WA enjoying some sea level fun. And some brutal heat and humidity. Did one run in 102 + humid, was was pure misery.
Best run was yesterday, where I essentially just cruised 10M in a little under 67 min, so about 6:40 pace. Didn't even feel like I was working too hard either. Maybe not quiet easy, but very much aerobic and under control. Will be fun to see how the tempo goes.
Oddly, I can't seem to ride any faster here. Part of that is that the trail is curvy, but even on flats I'm still only able to cruise 20-22. Perhaps that's an air resistance v increases wattage thing, with resistance equal ing the increased wattage.
Ouch, and here I was complaining about the "heat" here in Colorado these past couple of weeks. Just from my own experiences this year: be careful while at sea level. You're probably running on better shoes and surfaces than I was, but pushing it hard just because there's more O2 was what injured me.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm intrigued by the duct tape option, but worried it would rip off the blister when I removed it. Does anyone have experience with this?
ok I'm addicted to Strava. I just plugged my GPS watch in for the first time and I've spent over an hour going through my last 161 runs that were saved on it...LOL
On July 15 2014 07:52 Bonham wrote: Thanks for the suggestions. I'm intrigued by the duct tape option, but worried it would rip off the blister when I removed it. Does anyone have experience with this?
Never was a problem for me personally. The sweat was always enough to weaken the adhesive to the point it was either about to fall off, or already had fallen off by runs end
On July 15 2014 07:52 Bonham wrote: Thanks for the suggestions. I'm intrigued by the duct tape option, but worried it would rip off the blister when I removed it. Does anyone have experience with this?
No, if anything the main concern with duct tape is that it can separate from the skin it is applied to during longer or sweatier runs and then ball up and aggravate the sore area. Athletic tape generally has slightly better skin/sweat adhesive properties to keep it in place, and thus the 2-layers method I suggested previously. In most cases, one layer of either athletic tape or duct tape works fine.
On July 15 2014 14:09 LuckyFool wrote: ok I'm addicted to Strava. I just plugged my GPS watch in for the first time and I've spent over an hour going through my last 161 runs that were saved on it...LOL
Yeah... I know the feeling. One thing I would caution you on: trying to get CR's in unfamiliar running territory is a recipe for frustration and injury. Run your runs, find the courses, and then try for them.
I had a huge problem with looking at my watch during longer/harder runs and getting discouraged (see Mt. Evans). If your watch has a feature where one of the screens is just the time of day, I would suggest setting it to this when recording (unless you love to know you have 2 extra miles left out of 12 when you thought you were almost done ).
I just wanted to quickly share a run I went on yesterday. My regular meetings schedule at work got switched around (training a new employee) and this jarred me out of my regular weekly running routine. 'WHICH WAS A GOOD THING!
Rocky Mountain Runners hosts a weekly Wednesday [early!] morning run, and since I wouldn't be able to do my normal Wednesday night run @ BRC, I said to myself "well, why not?" 2,700ft of gain over 3 miles might have been a deterrent, but I need to be training on this sort of thing by now anyway, for Pike's Peak.
Long story short: getting up early sucked, driving to a run sucked, but running/vigorously hiking up Bear Peak through an inversion cloud layer with the very welcoming and nice people in the RMR group was more than worth it. The data is up on Strava, for those interested.
I guess the main point of this post is to a) bask in the glory of early morning peak bagging, and b) encourage all of you to just go DO that run/join up with that group/say "well, why not?" New and wonderful runs await!
That looks amazing. I'm jealous and wish I'd live in Colorado and not Northwest Germany where it's as flat as Paula Radcliffe's chest.
I hate morning runs. I either have to get up and go running immediately because there is only a 45 minute window before the urge to poop sets in (I force myself to do that once a week). Or I need at least 90 minutes after waking up to poop, drink and eat enough and there's simply not enough time to do that at weekdays and getting up at 6 o'clock at weekends is a big nono.
I'm considering getting into running.. I used to play basketball and am 10kg fatter than when I was in shape Any good recommendations on how I can start a good training routine?
Also, I've had ligament reconstruction surgeries on both knees (thanks basketball), and was wondering if there are bigger risks with knee problems in running shorter or longer distances
Check out the C25K program. It's for absolute beginners. You get used to running with a mix of jogging and walking intervals. I guess you still have some basic fitness left from you bball days so you might be able to skip some of the program if it's too easy.
Your knees might be a problem but you won't know until you try it. You want to get used to running slowly. Do not increase your weekly distance by more than 10%. Run at a pace that feels easy (aerobically); there is no need for fast workouts as you'll improve naturally by slowly increasing distance. Listen to your body and slow down and rest if your knees start complaining.
If you think that running is something you want to do longterm you should consider going to a running speciality store and get yourself fitted.
On July 18 2014 16:41 Don_Julio wrote: I hate morning runs. I either have to get up and go running immediately because there is only a 45 minute window before the urge to poop sets in (I force myself to do that once a week). Or I need at least 90 minutes after waking up to poop, drink and eat enough and there's simply not enough time to do that at weekdays and getting up at 6 o'clock at weekends is a big nono.
I love sleeping, but I love morning runs more. Naps were invented for a reason!
Have you tried going for morning runs without eating? Unless you're going to bed hungry or running 30+k, I think you should be OK to cut that part out and eat after.
My favorite morning run routine, which I only have time for on weekends, is to get up, do some core calisthenics, have a bit of coffee, use the washroom, and hit the trail. Takes about a half hour from getting out of bed to hitting the road.
Trying to decide how to handle this. Been planning a 140M/220km ride with a couple friends from Foco to Monument. Probably going to do it in early September if everything works out.
Which means I need to cycle more. Alot more. I can't see 15 miles 3-4x per week making me prepared for that sort of ride.
I'm going to try and still run 30-50 miles while building cycling up to like 200-250 miles a week, but that might be too much, don't know. The major downside is that it fucks with having a really nice 5k buildup in prime weather conditions for training. Might just try to keep working on raw speed, do a short buildup in Oct/Nov, then do one more round of good winter base for spring track shenanigans.
Thoughts? Too bad Airblade isn't around much, he's dabble around in Tris and probably knows better than anyone how to actually diving the days/workouts to keep the running fitness up while focusing on cycling.
On July 18 2014 16:41 Don_Julio wrote: I hate morning runs. I either have to get up and go running immediately because there is only a 45 minute window before the urge to poop sets in (I force myself to do that once a week). Or I need at least 90 minutes after waking up to poop, drink and eat enough and there's simply not enough time to do that at weekdays and getting up at 6 o'clock at weekends is a big nono.
I love sleeping, but I love morning runs more. Naps were invented for a reason!
Have you tried going for morning runs without eating? Unless you're going to bed hungry or running 30+k, I think you should be OK to cut that part out and eat after.
My favorite morning run routine, which I only have time for on weekends, is to get up, do some core calisthenics, have a bit of coffee, use the washroom, and hit the trail. Takes about a half hour from getting out of bed to hitting the road.
I don't eat before the single morning run I do and that's OK. If I take my time to drink coffee and poop I usually get hungry, too. It's fine to get hungry during a run but going for a run when you're already hungry? Nope. I'm probably just a little bit whiny.
On July 21 2014 14:02 L_Master wrote: Trying to decide how to handle this. Been planning a 140M/220km ride with a couple friends from Foco to Monument. Probably going to do it in early September if everything works out.
Which means I need to cycle more. Alot more. I can't see 15 miles 3-4x per week making me prepared for that sort of ride.
I'm going to try and still run 30-50 miles while building cycling up to like 200-250 miles a week, but that might be too much, don't know. The major downside is that it fucks with having a really nice 5k buildup in prime weather conditions for training. Might just try to keep working on raw speed, do a short buildup in Oct/Nov, then do one more round of good winter base for spring track shenanigans.
Thoughts? Too bad Airblade isn't around much, he's dabble around in Tris and probably knows better than anyone how to actually diving the days/workouts to keep the running fitness up while focusing on cycling.
Are you guys going to race the 140M and are your friends as fit as you? I'd think you'd be fit enough to at least survive such a ride without much preparation.
On July 22 2014 06:47 Don_Julio wrote: It's fine to get hungry during a run but going for a run when you're already hungry? Nope. I'm probably just a little bit whiny.
FWIW, I often find when I'm a bit hungry at the start of a run, it goes away during the run. Then you can have a great post-run snack when you finish stretching!
I think the hunger disappearing is due to (a) drinking a bit of water and (b) blood supply getting shunted away from the stomach and to the lungs and legs. I encourage you to at least give it a try once or twice if you haven't already.
On July 21 2014 14:02 L_Master wrote: Which means I need to cycle more. Alot more. I can't see 15 miles 3-4x per week making me prepared for that sort of ride.
Thoughts? Too bad Airblade isn't around much, he's dabble around in Tris and probably knows better than anyone how to actually diving the days/workouts to keep the running fitness up while focusing on cycling.
Beats me, man, but it's definitely something to be conscious of. I took a week off running a few years ago to bike around Belgium, and I definitely noticed some weakness in my lungs when I got back at it–even though I was spinning around 80k a day with a big heavy backpack on.
Of course, all the beer I drank on brewery tours on that trip might have had something to do with it too....
Are you guys going to race the 140M and are your friends as fit as you? I'd think you'd be fit enough to at least survive such a ride without much preparation.
No, definitely not racing. I'm the fittest of my friends but they aren't total slouches. One, while not a fitness freak, is active and runs/rides casually probably 3-4 times a week and tons a good bit of hiking, rock climbing, etc. The other, while not as fast as me, still runs around 21:xx for 5k...but he put in 60-90 mpw so has a great base.
I'm fit enough to survive the ride aerobically but there are two concerns on the bike. The first is the muscles used are different. The first time I went to ride about 10 months ago I did just 14 mph, and by the end was crawling at less than 10. My heart rate never got above 120. The power just wasn't there in the quads and they fatigued quickly.
Granted the pace will be pretty modest and I've probably been riding enough for that not to be a huge issue...however that exacerbates #2 which is...my ass. I'm expecting this ride to take 10-15 hours depending on how much my friends struggle toward the end. That is a LONG time in the saddle. If you aren't riding alot your butt will become a festering mass of pain...honestly to the point where it might be hard to finish the ride. I was a little tender a few days ago after riding for just 2:40...and we are looking at a ride that could be 6 or 7 times longer.
Conclusion: Need to cycle more if for no other reason than to condition my ass.
Met up with two of my friends from the UCCS team to hang out and do some sprint work while they did a tempo. Not to notable...except for the fact that Ryder just rolled out a cool 21:00 4M tempo. On grass.
Ran 4:01 at altitude and 15:30 at sea level last year...I'm now officially excited to see how he does this XC and track season!
That's super impressive! I'm a bit confused by dude's PRs though.
4:01 at altitude is a level above 15:30, isn't it? I mean, I ran 16 flat on the road last year and I'd be shocked if I could get below 4:30 in the mile.
On July 23 2014 10:19 Bonham wrote: Oh, wait, unless you mean 4:01 for 1500? That would make more sense I guess.
Yea 4:01 1500, iirc that's 3:54 converted. Still way better than 15:30, but I'd guess he was in 15 flat shape or slightly better as from what I remember he went out with the leaders in that race around 14:45 pace and struggled a bit.
He's quick though, ran 51.2 in a relay split of 400 after running 1:57 earlier in the meet so his speed probably carries him a little. Given that tempo I could see times of sub 3:50 and sub 14:30 being a real possibility this season.
just ran a 5:41 mile on the track near my house...11 seconds off my goal this year to run a 5:30 or sub mile. and this was in 79 degree heat. I think I'm set as long as I keep up what I'm doing. Feel so good, last week ran 35 miles, hope to continue building up my base.
You know the 400m splits? If they were even 5:30 might still be a hair ambitious right now...but if you got carried away and ran like 80 or less for first 400 it might be possible currently. Regardless, if it was smooth pace you can take a lot of time out of that with good mile training, and getting in a few races. Heck a race alone might get you 5:35 or better.
That's a reasonable first split, first quarter with 1-2s in the bank is usually fine, some would argue optimal.
Good starting benchmark though, it's not an easy race to solo especially in the penultimate and final lap it's really nice to have people to chase to keep ya gritting your teeth and working.
If you're focus is on the mile over the next month or two I'm pretty confident you'll get it, especially with a few more time trials or ideally races to get a little better feel for it. I haven't followed exactly what you've been doing, but its hard to run a really good mile if you haven't been training at mile pace or faster.
Recently my runs have become less frequent and I can already feel it affecting me. My anxiety levels skyrocket and getting a good sleep just doesn't happen. Went for a good run today, feeling pumped. Although I didn't set any PRs, I already feel much better. I can't imagine how I could live without exercising for the past 10 years, no wonder that there wasn't an even a chance of me functioning normally.
Also, fuck dogs. People should really learn to leash them on the streets.
On July 25 2014 20:04 Bunn wrote: Recently my runs have become less frequent and I can already feel it affecting me. My anxiety levels skyrocket and getting a good sleep just doesn't happen. Went for a good run today, feeling pumped. Although I didn't set any PRs, I already feel much better. I can't imagine how I could live without exercising for the past 10 years, no wonder that there wasn't an even a chance of me functioning normally.
Also, fuck dogs. People should really learn to leash them on the streets.
One of the many great things about running is that it can help with light and medium psychological struggles. Why have you run less frequent?
On July 22 2014 06:47 Don_Julio wrote: It's fine to get hungry during a run but going for a run when you're already hungry? Nope. I'm probably just a little bit whiny.
FWIW, I often find when I'm a bit hungry at the start of a run, it goes away during the run. Then you can have a great post-run snack when you finish stretching!
I think the hunger disappearing is due to (a) drinking a bit of water and (b) blood supply getting shunted away from the stomach and to the lungs and legs. I encourage you to at least give it a try once or twice if you haven't already.
It worked! The first 20-25 minutes were awful and my stomach was telling me: "Stop running you lunatic. We already had coffee. You need food with your coffee. We always do that." It became better over time and I actually managed to run at a decent pace.
On July 25 2014 20:04 Bunn wrote: Recently my runs have become less frequent and I can already feel it affecting me. My anxiety levels skyrocket and getting a good sleep just doesn't happen. Went for a good run today, feeling pumped. Although I didn't set any PRs, I already feel much better. I can't imagine how I could live without exercising for the past 10 years, no wonder that there wasn't an even a chance of me functioning normally.
Also, fuck dogs. People should really learn to leash them on the streets.
One of the many great things about running is that it can help with light and medium psychological struggles. Why have you run less frequent?
No reason in particular. I usually run in the morning, but recently some other things have come up during that time, so I somehow told myself in my head that I can't find time for a run. That of course isn't true, I just created a mental wall. Constant hot weather (30C and humid) probably helped creating it as well, because I don't really like running in that kind of weather.
On July 26 2014 06:03 Don_Julio wrote: It worked! The first 20-25 minutes were awful and my stomach was telling me: "Stop running you lunatic. We already had coffee. You need food with your coffee. We always do that." It became better over time and I actually managed to run at a decent pace.
Whoo! Slowly, you can break you body of these habits.
Except drinking coffee, of course. Stopping that would kill anyone.
Would you guys have suggestions for online NA-based shops that mold custom orthotics? I've been running (and walking around regularly) on some custom ones made at a Road Runner store, but would rather not make the 2-hour one-way trek to the store again.
On July 26 2014 21:27 Kronen wrote: Would you guys have suggestions for online NA-based shops that mold custom orthotics? I've been running (and walking around regularly) on some custom ones made at a Road Runner store, but would rather not make the 2-hour one-way trek to the store again.
Sadly I'm no expert on this. I just use an over the counter orthotic for light arch support.
Been riding like 15-25 miles each day and doing a run later on in the evening and feeling like death on each run at 7:40 pace. Go out today and ride 50+ miles at like 18+ mph on my MTB, go out for the evening run...and lo and behold I'm cruising fairly chill at low 7 pace through my super hilly neighborhood with energy to push the pace.
I find my own improvement is similarly erratic and unpredictable. You slave away for weeks and weeks and never feel any stronger, sometimes feeling weaker, and then one day for no good reason you feel invincible. I guess it makes sense, what with us not being robots and all, but it never stops feeling weird.
On July 29 2014 08:14 Bonham wrote: I find my own improvement is similarly erratic and unpredictable. You slave away for weeks and weeks and never feel any stronger, sometimes feeling weaker, and then one day for no good reason you feel invincible. I guess it makes sense, what with us not being robots and all, but it never stops feeling weird.
+1
This has been my experience as well, sometimes it feels like you gain 10/s mile spontaneously in a single day.
On July 29 2014 08:22 micronesia wrote: "+1" posts are warnable dude.
I can relate to the quoted text, though. A lot of it is just scumbag brain messing with you, though.
True...but you didn't warn me XD. If you want I can happily change it to something along the lines of "this has been nearly my exact experience"!
I guess I'll chalk surviving this one up to my posting history. Perhaps this is cocky, but I think I'd have to be among the best, except for the users who have truly contributed something outstanding to the website.
So happy. Finally managed to run more than a few minutes last night. Made it to 20 minutes even with four 60 second sprints in there. Closing in on 2 years knee injury and there is more and more hope, yay!
One of the many great things about running is that it can help with light and medium psychological struggles. Why have you run less frequent?
No reason in particular. I usually run in the morning, but recently some other things have come up during that time, so I somehow told myself in my head that I can't find time for a run. That of course isn't true, I just created a mental wall. Constant hot weather (30C and humid) probably helped creating it as well, because I don't really like running in that kind of weather.
Good luck moving sideways along these mental walls, finding gaps and low points that are easy to push through. I spent a good 1-2 years in graduate school with only spotty running, and was in a pretty bad place. I usually find myself getting pissed off at small things, more obsessive, and generally not as happy when I'm not running. Then, take a good cruiser long run, and I'm a Zen master. I don't know if I'm just addicted to the endorphins, now, or if running's just awesome but with a significant body of research promoting E.O.D. I think we can all agree that running has positive mental side effects in addition to being awesome.
On July 29 2014 23:42 zatic wrote: So happy. Finally managed to run more than a few minutes last night. Made it to 20 minutes even with four 60 second sprints in there. Closing in on 2 years knee injury and there is more and more hope, yay!
Nice! Train smart, be careful about your choice of path (i.e. concrete vs dirt) and ENJOY!
Ok! So after a couple of ruptured ligaments and subsequent surgeries destroyed any basketball aspirations I had and made me chubby depressed and out of shape, I'm going to commit myself to this running sport thing.
I've tried making a habit out of running three times, without success. It's not that I don't like it, but I always prioritize something else and forget my previous goals. I decided that I need competition and maybe some support here, so I decided to sign up for my first 25km run ever, which happens in about two and a half months. I also decided to make this post and promise to make updates on my progress, also something I haven't done before - it always felt weird to me to post things about myself as if someone cared, but so many people do this and recommend it, I'll give it a try.
I joined the TL runner's club on strava and am trying to upload my first run today there (servers down it seems). Very weak run, 4km in 22 min, but I guess I'll at least see some quick progress.
My goal for now is to just finish the 25km run, hopefully I can do it if I train hard enough. After that I'll go for speed training and will see what my next goal will be.
Also, fuck dogs. People should really learn to leash them on the streets.
Amen, brotha, amen. Even if people know their dog is nice and friendly...I sure don't. When he jumps at me that could be either to say hi or to take a chunk out of my leg.
On July 29 2014 23:42 zatic wrote: So happy. Finally managed to run more than a few minutes last night. Made it to 20 minutes even with four 60 second sprints in there. Closing in on 2 years knee injury and there is more and more hope, yay!
As someone who can sympathize with being injured for several years...it really is a great feeling as you start to get back to being healthy. Really makes you appreciate what was missed
Glad to hear it sounds like you are on the road to recovery!
On July 30 2014 10:03 Z-BosoN wrote: Very weak run, 4km in 22 min, but I guess I'll at least see some quick progress.
My goal for now is to just finish the 25km run, hopefully I can do it if I train hard enough. After that I'll go for speed training and will see what my next goal will be.
First off, nothing weak about 4k in 22 min. That's a good starting point even if you are lean...if you have plenty of weight to lose then you're in an excellent place, provided you lose the weight (general experience for most people is they get about 1-2 s/km faster for every pound they lose, or 2-3 s/km for every kg of weight lost).
I've tried making a habit out of running three times, without success. It's not that I don't like it, but I always prioritize something else and forget my previous goals. I decided that I need competition and maybe some support here, so I decided to sign up for my first 25km run ever, which happens in about two and a half months.
Yea, if you really want to succeed it helps to make running the priority for a little while until it's habit. Within reason, treat it as priority #1 and schedule some of your day around your run. Once it's habit to run, it will be easier to avoid falling out of doing.
I also decided to make this post and promise to make updates on my progress, also something I haven't done before - it always felt weird to me to post things about myself as if someone cared, but so many people do this and recommend it, I'll give it a try.
Maybe I'm jut a nutter, but I legitimately do care. It's really fun and interesting for me seeing how people progress through training and helping coach them if desired. You're doing me a favor posting runs on strava and discussing yours and others training.
I joined the TL runner's club on strava and am trying to upload my first run today there (servers down it seems).
My goal for now is to just finish the 25km run, hopefully I can do it if I train hard enough. After that I'll go for speed training and will see what my next goal will be.
Awesome! Make sure to follow the rest of us in the group, then you can see what everyone else is up to. Bonham especially is worth looking at. He trains pretty intelligently and with good focus. Not to mention he is the quickest guy here.
Good approach, just realize right now the focus should not be too much on hard. Think smart enough. You've got 2.5 months...more than enough time to be prepared to complete 25k. I wouldn't get fancy with training quite yet. The focus right now should be on learning to run at an EASY pace (by easy I really mean easy, you should almost wonder if you are cheating yourself and not going hard enough to get in any sort of workout) and gradually building volume.
Start with 4-5km on three or four days a week and progress over the next month to running 6 days a week. Then in month 2 we'll bump up the volume of these runs some, and throw in a couple of longer efforts to get some feel for the race and being on your legs for a while.
One final note, after each run, do 6 pickups of about 15s at a near sprint pace. If all out sprint is a 100% these should be like 95-98% effort. Take 1-2 mins walking between each. These should not be hard from a breathing standpoint. If they are...take more walking time. These won't make you fitter, but they will help you develop your speed and good stride mechanics while running fast, as some newer runners get into the trap of just doing a bunch of slow runs and don't develop powerful, efficient running strides that work well at faster speeds.
Dang the more I use strava the more I grow to like it. The only feature it is currently lacking that would be stellar is a way to sort runs by self selected category (i.e. tempo, race, 800s, easy, long, etc) and just having a general log list like runningahead where you can see all your runs, i.e:
Date Activity Course Type Length Duration Pace 7/24 Run Santa Fe Trail Easy 6 mi 42:00 7:00 7/24 7/23 7/22 7/22
Add something like that in and the site would be about as complete as I can imagine. The social side of strava is somewhat fun, and obviously the segments are good fun. Significantly moreso for biking than in running though, mainly because in cycling you can go hard. If someone makes a 1km segment some fast guy can just go hammer out 2:30 and get the CR...and unless you want to schedule a day to run a 1k time trial you can't really alter your training and just drop a 1k time trial in the middle of an easy run. Cycling you can with very minimal ill effects provided you don't do it every single day.
I also have to admit that GAP thing is growing on me. It's not really perfect, but I'm really suprised by just how frequently I agree with it's estimates. Today is a great example, nearly 2000ft of climbing, with grades of 20% reducing me to walking in places. I took most of it at an strong aerobic effort, and it spits out to me a GAP of 7:00 pace...probably within 10-20s of what I felt my effort was. Whatever they are doing for that...it's a pretty respectable little algorithm.
Yeah I'm loving Strava as well. I'm even recommending it to my other running friends lol
I still haven't found a great way to record track workouts though, I start/stop/save runs on my watch alot when I'm on the track and end up with like 8 different saved runs over the course of an hour. A few times I've uploaded all of them, but I find its easier to just manually upload at once and note all the interval times.
there's probably a better way to do it on my watch, like change the lap distance in the settings from a mile to 400M, or use custom laps and just let the workout keep running. I'll have to play around with it, that might save me from having to save 8 different runs during a workout...
On July 30 2014 13:52 LuckyFool wrote: Yeah I'm loving Strava as well. I'm even recommending it to my other running friends lol
I still haven't found a great way to record track workouts though, I start/stop/save runs on my watch alot when I'm on the track and end up with like 8 different saved runs over the course of an hour. A few times I've uploaded all of them, but I find its easier to just manually upload at once and note all the interval times.
there's probably a better way to do it on my watch, like change the lap distance in the settings from a mile to 400M, or use custom laps and just let the workout keep running. I'll have to play around with it, that might save me from having to save 8 different runs during a workout...
Yea, I forgot about this. It would be nice if strava had a little feature where you could upload your own interval dataset into the workout. Usually I end up just writing workout + splits in the description
I'm not quite following why you do 8 uploads. I just kill strava after my WU, restart it when I am on the track, and then kill it again when I finish my last repeat.
Bought new shoes today. The "Wave Sayonara" by Mizuno. It's "less shoe" than I normally wear as my shoe guy said and they feel awesome. + Show Spoiler +
Went to the track to run an exactly timed tempo run but it was so much fun to push the speed in these cuties that I was 4 to 5 seconds per lap faster than I wanted to be no matter how hard I tried to run slower. Well, I didn't finish the planned distance but now I know that I like my new shoes.
On July 30 2014 13:52 LuckyFool wrote: Yeah I'm loving Strava as well. I'm even recommending it to my other running friends lol
I still haven't found a great way to record track workouts though, I start/stop/save runs on my watch alot when I'm on the track and end up with like 8 different saved runs over the course of an hour. A few times I've uploaded all of them, but I find its easier to just manually upload at once and note all the interval times.
there's probably a better way to do it on my watch, like change the lap distance in the settings from a mile to 400M, or use custom laps and just let the workout keep running. I'll have to play around with it, that might save me from having to save 8 different runs during a workout...
Yea, I forgot about this. It would be nice if strava had a little feature where you could upload your own interval dataset into the workout. Usually I end up just writing workout + splits in the description
I'm not quite following why you do 8 uploads. I just kill strava after my WU, restart it when I am on the track, and then kill it again when I finish my last repeat.
it's because after each interval I pause/save and then restart. So I end up with lots of really short individual runs instead of one. I should just pause and click off a lap or something instead of save each interval and restart.
On July 31 2014 03:17 Don_Julio wrote: Bought new shoes today. The "Wave Sayonara" by Mizuno. It's "less shoe" than I normally wear as my shoe guy said and they feel awesome. + Show Spoiler +
Went to the track to run an exactly timed tempo run but it was so much fun to push the speed in these cuties that I was 4 to 5 seconds per lap faster than I wanted to be no matter how hard I tried to run slower. Well, I didn't finish the planned distance but now I know that I like my new shoes.
Haha sweet! Sometimes it's fun when you get in the mood to just hammer it and see what happens, can't do it all the time but it's a nice change of pace.
Also, sweet Jesus. The UCCS team went to Kenya (Iten) a year ago for running/charitable work. Well they met a guy there and became friends with him and he decided to run for the team given the support UCCS/UCCS XC team offered him.
He got here a week ago and they went out for the first time to the track today. It was exactly what you might have expected: 10x1k in: 2:54, 2:57, 2:53, 2:52, 2:53 2:54, 2:51, 2:50, 2:48, 2:52.
My friend who I mentioned before...with him the whole time, though I think he was about to crack on the last one. Still, add up those intervals and it's fucking 28:43 at 7000 ft......
Also, does Strava not have a lap feature when you use it on a phone? It picks up the laps I hit on my Garmin no problem.
On July 30 2014 13:17 L_Master wrote: Awesome! Make sure to follow the rest of us in the group, then you can see what everyone else is up to. Bonham especially is worth looking at. He trains pretty intelligently and with good focus. Not to mention he is the quickest guy here.
Ha, the only intelligence I have when it comes to training is to follow the plan in the back of Advanced Marathoning. But that's beside the point: welcome to running, BosoN! I hope you like it, and that this small community helps foster your enthusiasm.
On July 31 2014 10:52 Bonham wrote: Also, does Strava not have a lap feature when you use it on a phone? It picks up the laps I hit on my Garmin no problem.
It might, but trying to get past the hold screen, open the app, select the lap button, etc. is really a monumental task when trying to run reps. I have a hard enough time just finding the right area to press to stop my generic phone timer...which is why I really need to get myself a fking watch lol.
It doesn't matter a ton if you're doing k's or something, but being a second or two off on say 200m reps is a significant difference.
@L_Master Thank you very much for the extremely solid reply. I plan on following what you suggested religiously! When we get to september I'll be sure to ask for the follow up on the long runs
btw, it was 4km in 29 min, don't know why I said 22 It also got me very tired haha, which especially is why I said it was weak. Today I only managed to run 2km due to sore legs. It seems the average pace right now for me is 6:10 min/km in these first few runs, I should probably work on that a bit, and maybe maintain a ~5:50 for a longer duration.
On August 01 2014 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote: @L_Master Thank you very much for the extremely solid reply. I plan on following what you suggested religiously! When we get to september I'll be sure to ask for the follow up on the long runs
btw, it was 4km in 29 min, don't know why I said 22 It also got me very tired haha, which especially is why I said it was weak. Today I only managed to run 2km due to sore legs. It seems the average pace right now for me is 6:10 min/km in these first few runs, I should probably work on that a bit, and maybe maintain a ~5:50 for a longer duration.
@Bonham thanks man!
That's exactly what I would say not to do. Run easy, don't force a pace. It's really important to learn to run easy because that is what you build the foundation of your training on, as well as not stressing your body to much before your tendons, ligaments, bones, etc. are strong enough to handle faster stuff.
As I mentioned before though, do some strides after every run at a "near sprint" pace.
You can think of the progression as a funnel in a manner of speaking:
Let's say your goal as a new runner is a fast 5k or 10k. At the start you develop your base and general fitness through easy runs, and do strides to teach your body how to run FAST. Then, once you have a good aerobic base (2-3 months of at least 50km/wk) you start adding in some faster endurance stuff like tempo runs, and some more race specific stuff like 400m repeats at 1500m pace with long recovery or 400m repeats at 5k pace with medium recovery; this builds your efficiency at faster speeds to make running at 5k pace feel easier, and your high end endurance, and then as you approach the last month of two of the race you're training really centers around your work right at race pace so you become as efficient and comfortable as possible at goal pace.
It's worth noting though, that even as you do faster work most of your running is still running at an easy pace (5-10k race pace + 45s - 2:00 per km). Even the most elite runners are only doing hard runs two or maybe three times per week.
Moral of the story: run easy for now. Not only will this give you the best aerobic developments at the moment, it gives your body time to build it's ability to handle the stress of running so that you don't develop injuries as soon as you start trying to run hard. Not to mention it's hard for most new runners to run easy effort at first, so it teaches you pacing skills that will allow you to do the harder runs more successfully.
On July 31 2014 10:24 L_Master wrote: Also, sweet Jesus. The UCCS team went to Kenya (Iten) a year ago for running/charitable work. Well they met a guy there and became friends with him and he decided to run for the team given the support UCCS/UCCS XC team offered him.
He got here a week ago and they went out for the first time to the track today. It was exactly what you might have expected: 10x1k in: 2:54, 2:57, 2:53, 2:52, 2:53 2:54, 2:51, 2:50, 2:48, 2:52.
My friend who I mentioned before...with him the whole time, though I think he was about to crack on the last one. Still, add up those intervals and it's fucking 28:43 at 7000 ft......
Aieee! What was the rest? Is this dude the next Lawi Lalang?
I'm really enjoying these glimpses into high-level American collegiate running, by the way. Please keep them coming.
On July 31 2014 10:24 L_Master wrote: Also, sweet Jesus. The UCCS team went to Kenya (Iten) a year ago for running/charitable work. Well they met a guy there and became friends with him and he decided to run for the team given the support UCCS/UCCS XC team offered him.
He got here a week ago and they went out for the first time to the track today. It was exactly what you might have expected: 10x1k in: 2:54, 2:57, 2:53, 2:52, 2:53 2:54, 2:51, 2:50, 2:48, 2:52.
My friend who I mentioned before...with him the whole time, though I think he was about to crack on the last one. Still, add up those intervals and it's fucking 28:43 at 7000 ft......
Aieee! What was the rest? Is this dude the next Lawi Lalang?
I'm really enjoying these glimpses into high-level American collegiate running, by the way. Please keep them coming.
You wouldn't peg a little D2 school to be strong, but it's a unique combination coming together. I really think they could be a major D2 favorite this year.
As for the rest, 2:00 in between. Not bad at all for still preseason. If I can do 5-6x1k under control w/2:00 jog I find I have a good chance of running that for 5k. This was 4 more.
I'll definitely keep the updates coming. Rest of the team isn't nearly that strong as David and Ryder, but still plenty of other guys in high 15s/low 16s at 7000'. One of them might be quite a bit stronger though as he ran a 33:00 10k at 9000' on a rolling hills course about a month ago. Not sure he can factor much at 5000 though as he maxes out at like 59-60s for 400. Should be a very strong guy for cross though.
I am on holiday in California for three weeks. Have been running nearly every day, it's such a great way to get to know new places. Was running at Lake Tahoe today. I was expecting to feel somehow different, since it's ~1900m elevated, but I basically felt no different than on my normal runs.
I still haven't reached my goal of running 5k below 23min (not even close), mostly because I am just too heavy and struggle to lose those last ~20 pounds. Anyway, as long as I am training, all is good in the world.
I just joined the Strava-group and am looking forwards to post my runs for advice. My training is basically freestyle^^. Will start uploading once I am back from California, so in around 10 days.
Hello guys. I am considering buying a pair of running shoes for the track, mostly just to try it out, for the fun of it. Does anyone have some advise/experience on this?
I mostly run 5k and at the moment i can do it in just under 19m.
On August 01 2014 14:40 Malinor wrote: I am on holiday in California for three weeks. Have been running nearly every day, it's such a great way to get to know new places. Was running at Lake Tahoe today. I was expecting to feel somehow different, since it's ~1900m elevated, but I basically felt no different than on my normal runs.
I still haven't reached my goal of running 5k below 23min (not even close), mostly because I am just too heavy and struggle to lose those last ~20 pounds. Anyway, as long as I am training, all is good in the world.
I just joined the Strava-group and am looking forwards to post my runs for advice. My training is basically freestyle^^. Will start uploading once I am back from California, so in around 10 days.
PS: It's freaking hot here...
.
Yea, being big is a pretty solid disadvantage for everything starting from about a mile on up. Extra fat is always a disadvantage regardless of whether you want to run a fast 40 or a fast marathon. If you have 20 lbs to lose and do so that will help tremendously, probably on the order of 1:30-2:00 from a 5k...of course, YMMV
Freestyle can work acceptably provided you run easy most of the time, and push the pace on the occasions when you happen to be feeling good. Running consistently at moderate-hard effort generally results in high risk of injury and not as much fitness benefit. Obviously if you add some structure you can make improve more quickly than just free-wheeling though.
Ugh threads like these are so bad for me. They tend to be filled with posts like (based on an accumulation of evidence):
"Hi guys I'm new. I never really did physical activity X before seriously until yesterday when I just performed 15% better than micronesia did after he trained for three months, so I was thinking maybe I'll get serious."
On August 01 2014 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote: @L_Master Thank you very much for the extremely solid reply. I plan on following what you suggested religiously! When we get to september I'll be sure to ask for the follow up on the long runs
btw, it was 4km in 29 min, don't know why I said 22 It also got me very tired haha, which especially is why I said it was weak. Today I only managed to run 2km due to sore legs. It seems the average pace right now for me is 6:10 min/km in these first few runs, I should probably work on that a bit, and maybe maintain a ~5:50 for a longer duration.
@Bonham thanks man!
That's exactly what I would say not to do. Run easy, don't force a pace. It's really important to learn to run easy because that is what you build the foundation of your training on, as well as not stressing your body to much before your tendons, ligaments, bones, etc. are strong enough to handle faster stuff.
As I mentioned before though, do some strides after every run at a "near sprint" pace.
You can think of the progression as a funnel in a manner of speaking:
Let's say your goal as a new runner is a fast 5k or 10k. At the start you develop your base and general fitness through easy runs, and do strides to teach your body how to run FAST. Then, once you have a good aerobic base (2-3 months of at least 50km/wk) you start adding in some faster endurance stuff like tempo runs, and some more race specific stuff like 400m repeats at 1500m pace with long recovery or 400m repeats at 5k pace with medium recovery; this builds your efficiency at faster speeds to make running at 5k pace feel easier, and your high end endurance, and then as you approach the last month of two of the race you're training really centers around your work right at race pace so you become as efficient and comfortable as possible at goal pace.
It's worth noting though, that even as you do faster work most of your running is still running at an easy pace (5-10k race pace + 45s - 2:00 per km). Even the most elite runners are only doing hard runs two or maybe three times per week.
Moral of the story: run easy for now. Not only will this give you the best aerobic developments at the moment, it gives your body time to build it's ability to handle the stress of running so that you don't develop injuries as soon as you start trying to run hard. Not to mention it's hard for most new runners to run easy effort at first, so it teaches you pacing skills that will allow you to do the harder runs more successfully.
Awesome! Thanks for the heads up!
On August 02 2014 06:43 micronesia wrote: Ugh threads like these are so bad for me. They tend to be filled with posts like (based on an accumulation of evidence):
"Hi guys I'm new. I never really did physical activity X before seriously until yesterday when I just performed 15% better than micronesia did after he trained for three months, so I was thinking maybe I'll get serious."
Haha everyone has different standards, but that's just how it is How do you think I feel when I see a freaking 12-year old playing much harder shit than me on a piano... me, who's played for 10 years. >.< To that I just say: "Well... I probably have X which you probably do not! HA!" Such are the ways of life.
Ugh threads like these are so bad for me. They tend to be filled with posts like (based on an accumulation of evidence):
"Hi guys I'm new. I never really did physical activity X before seriously until yesterday when I just performed 15% better than micronesia did after he trained for three months, so I was thinking maybe I'll get serious."
If your reffering to me then im sorry if my post made you feel bad, that wasnt the intention. Though im new in this thread im not new in running or in TL even.
I'm gonna be close to cracking 40 miles this week for the first time in ages. for the most part I feel pretty good so that's good.
Still torn between wanting to focus on speed(I'm still on a quest for a 5:29:xx mile at some point this year) but needing to play it safe and continue logging the miles and putting in some super long runs for my marathon in Oct. Super long runs can get monotonous but thankfully I'm training with a marathon training program out of one of my local running stores so there's a group of about 30-40 of us every Saturday morning to crank out the long runs, usually there's a few other guys my same pace so it's really nice being able to have someone else to push through with. highly recommend running buddies every once in a while especially guys who may be slightly quicker than you to help you push.
last year I trained for my first marathon solo pretty much and some of my long training runs were disasters. Things have been going much better this year so far in that department.
Ugh threads like these are so bad for me. They tend to be filled with posts like (based on an accumulation of evidence):
"Hi guys I'm new. I never really did physical activity X before seriously until yesterday when I just performed 15% better than micronesia did after he trained for three months, so I was thinking maybe I'll get serious."
If your reffering to me then im sorry if my post made you feel bad, that wasnt the intention. Though im new in this thread im not new in running or in TL even.
No haha it isn't your fault or anything... I realized you weren't new to running... it just re-triggered the thought for me for a moment though.
On August 02 2014 08:40 LuckyFool wrote:[...] there's a group of about 30-40 of us every Saturday morning to crank out the long runs, [...]
I imagine you look like a gang out of a Michael Jackson video.
also, 7 guys in strava group? hell yeah!
This makes me want to get a GPS watch.
On August 02 2014 06:26 ostekongen wrote: Hello guys. I am considering buying a pair of running shoes for the track, mostly just to try it out, for the fun of it. Does anyone have some advise/experience on this?
I mostly run 5k and at the moment i can do it in just under 19m.
Thanks! :D
Nope, I guess spikes are the obvious choice if you need shoe for the sole purpose of running on the track but I have never owned any myself. You probably know that but most of your mileage should be way slower than race pace and running that on a trail or road is a little less boring. Also most 5k races outside of track meetings are on the road. The best advice as always is to go to a running speciality store and get some help there. They should know what shoe fits your desire.
Dat Magnolia Road. Seriously one brutal run. I'd heard it describe as "rolling hills"...but that's gotta be the most generous description of that ever. More like rolling mountains. Constant up and down hills of 6-12% grade at 8500-9000 ft. There is literally not a place of flat ground, and even places of gradients in the range of -3% to 3% are rare.
That said, it's a very scenic route and very peaceful (minus a car driving by every few minutes) as it just cruises through a bunch of high mountain fields framed by snowy peaks in the background.
I was happy with my run, though it was a very odd one, averaging about 7:25 pace despite what strava wants to think Really strange run though, as everytime we were on anything resembling slight uphill, flat or downhill I felt fucking amazing and was chomping at the bit to roll 6:30s or quicker...but every-time we hit an uphill I instantly felt flat and honestly had to talk myself through a couple of them to keep from turning around right on the hill.
I never feel fast on uphills, but today I just felt awful on them. Oddly though, from an aerobic standpoint I still felt okay and very much under control. I would just hit them and instantly feel like shit, with this sensation of being dead...that I couldn't trace to anywhere. If I thought about either my legs/lungs both felt fine. Never had a feeling like that before.
All that said, not bad for by FAR the longest and toughest route I've run in 2 years. I've really got stop fking around though, get serious about my diet, drop the weight, and start running 16:xx instead of this 18:xx stuff.
Had a bit of a key workout today. The plan called for 32k with 18k at marathon race pace, which for me is 3:40/km.
Forced to run this one at an elevation of about 1,400m because of a wedding I'm at. I usually train at 645m. This couldn’t be helped, but my sore legs from going too hard on Friday were totally my fault.
After tackling the first 14k at comfortable pace. I got through 12k of the fast bit at 3:37/km and then I ran out of moxy and finished the last 6k at 3:47/km.
I’m a bit mixed about this. On the one hand, it was run under somewhat testing circumstances and I managed it so-so. On the other, of my three major race pace workouts this cycle, I’ve really only done one successfully.
However, I did manage to avoid getting eaten by a bear or gored by an elk on the run, so I guess that tips the balance in favor of the “pro” side. And I've got nine weeks until the race, so I suppose there's more time to improve.
On August 02 2014 08:40 LuckyFool wrote: highly recommend running buddies every once in a while especially guys who may be slightly quicker than you to help you push.
So do I! Running buds are great. The main challenge, at least for me, lies in finding dudes who are at least reasonably compatible with you in all three attributes (speed, schedule, personality).
On August 04 2014 07:30 Bonham wrote: Had a bit of a key workout today. The plan called for 32k with 18k at marathon race pace, which for me is 3:40/km.
Forced to run this one at an elevation of about 1,400m because of a wedding I'm at. I usually train at 645m. This couldn’t be helped, but my sore legs from going too hard on Friday were totally my fault.
After tackling the first 14k at comfortable pace. I got through 12k of the fast bit at 3:37/km and then I ran out of moxy and finished the last 6k at 3:47/km.
I’m a bit mixed about this. On the one hand, it was run under somewhat testing circumstances and I managed it so-so. On the other, of my three major race pace workouts this cycle, I’ve really only done one successfully.
However, I did manage to avoid getting eaten by a bear or gored by an elk on the run, so I guess that tips the balance in favor of the “pro” side. And I've got nine weeks until the race, so I suppose there's more time to improve.
For a little bit higher altitude that's a solid run either way. Moreover, it averages out to almost exactly 3:40/km pace. Not to mention it's solidly net uphill where you were doing that. Throw in that, tired legs, and altitude and I think that more than accounts for a modest bonk towards the end. I wouldn't be surprised if that 3:40 avg was closer to 3:35 effort under flat conditions at SL altitude.
Also, I should note that from everything I have ever read or hear the top athletes/coaches say MP is not supposed to be easy in a training cycle, even as a part of runs. Most of the guys all say in training they feel like there is no chance they can run that pace for the entire marathon because their is so much mileage and cumulative fatigue. Factor in the taper and competition of a race day environment and the game changes though.
Everything to me looks like you are right on track for something in that 2:35-2:40 zone as of now. What is the goal marathon and what is the course profile like?
I've seen a few deals, recently, on SteepAndCheap.com come up for decent-looking Soleus watches. The phone worked well for me for quite a while, but then on these longer runs/races a running watch really is nice.
On August 02 2014 06:43 micronesia wrote: Ugh threads like these are so bad for me. They tend to be filled with posts like (based on an accumulation of evidence):
"Hi guys I'm new. I never really did physical activity X before seriously until yesterday when I just performed 15% better than micronesia did after he trained for three months, so I was thinking maybe I'll get serious."
I do know how it can be frustrating but I'd strongly advise you to disregard and not worry about it.
This is because there is SO much that goes into how quickly someone runs that just isn't known. The person might not have run until yesterday, but they could have been a serious rower, a soccer player, a basketball player, etc. Who knows. Anybody that did sports like this in HS at a high level will have a significant advantage over someone that hasn't. You also don't really know about things like weight, which makes a HUGE difference. Someone coming in that is 5'8" and 125 is going to have a major advantage over the 5'10" 190 guy.
Then, you get into the realm of talent/training/how people respond. Everyone obviously has a different level of top potential they can reach, but how they get there various MASSIVELY. Some guys are just really fast starting out. It's far from a once in a lifetime event to hear of a HS freshman who shows up to track and runs 4:xx in his first or second mile off no training. Sometimes these guys have world class potential, where others top out at 4:30. Then you have guys who have the ability to improve for long periods of time continuously. Brian Sell is a classic example...the guy couldn't break 10:00 in the 2 mile in HS despite running 80+ mpw. Went on to become one of the best US marathoners of all time. Yet other guys start off slow but have the ability to handle large doses of mileage and intensity, and are able to improve rapidly under that stimulus.
I guess what I'm getting it is that you are a guy that hasn't been training for long at all, doing a very small training volume, and if I recall correctly aren't at that sub 20 BMI distance athlete body-weight. All of which means, that even if you don't feel all that fast now...or even feel slow, you have a TON of a room for improvement. I know guys that started out in similar positions as you that went on to run in the 14s and 15s for 5k.
Heck, starting in HS I was a 200lb chubster that struggled to break 9 in an all out mile.
If you accept that you don't know where your true potential lies, and that everybody starts with different initial ability (which is NOT at all a good correlation between ones potential) and backgrounds of fitness/activity/nutrition/training it really shouldn't be something that is too stressful. Just because some punk HSer that just walked onto the track can probably beat me by 10s in the mile doesn't mean that someday I won't be running 4:10 and blowing him out on the backstretch.
L_Master I think everything you said is correct. Keep in mind though, when this happens over and over again across multiple activities it is still frustrating, even if you can find a logical explanation every single time.
On August 04 2014 13:28 micronesia wrote: L_Master I think everything you said is correct. Keep in mind though, when this happens over and over again across multiple activities it is still frustrating, even if you can find a logical explanation every single time.
Yea, I can sympathize. I've gotten to a level between pretty good and borderline excellent at a few activities...but mostly out of sheer brute force practice/training. I've never really started an activity and been good straight out the gate. I get a little of the same feeling when for instance some tenth grader that looks like he is 12 comes out and beats me by 45 seconds in the local 5k...and then I hear him saying he hasn't done much this summer other than play video games.
Or with golf, l would practice for 6+ hours a day in the summer and we had a guy join our team in the fall as a junior and by the end of next season he was less than a stroke worse than me in season average. The kicker? He practiced ONLY at team practices and did literally nothing on his own.
Can be vexing to put so much work into something only to get steamrolled by someone that really has the talent I guess I just try to shake my head, remind myself that there are some talented dudes out there and I can't control what they do, then put my head down and keep plodding because who knows how good I might get if I keep on working at it.
Something odd's been happening that never happened before during my runs. After a few miles, I get this cramp on my right abs, mostly on the oblique & at the bottom of the ribcage. It makes breathing annoyingly painful, and although I can power through it for a while eventually I have to stop and rest which is killing my spirit. Anyone experience this or know why it's happening? There shouldn't be a food/water issue causing this cramp.
Usually it's not a big deal and will go away as your fitness improves. I'd recommend just running a bit slower and gradually build back to your "normal" pace as you find it stops happening.
I used to get it all the time when I first started running after a long time off. It was really annoying because my legs would feel fine and I'd want to keep running but it was too painful/causing my breathing to get out of whack. As I started going more regularly and improved my fitness I rarely have this happen anymore unless I'm running WAY too fast or something.
Usually it's not a big deal and will go away as your fitness improves. I'd recommend just running a bit slower and gradually build back to your "normal" pace as you find it stops happening.
I used to get it all the time when I first started running after a long time off. It was really annoying because my legs would feel fine and I'd want to keep running but it was too painful/causing my breathing to get out of whack. As I started going more regularly and improved my fitness I rarely have this happen anymore unless I'm running WAY too fast or something.
Ah thank you kindly
Yeah it's depressing when you know you can go further, but your body starts to break apart and says "no." Stupid body.
On August 04 2014 12:44 L_Master wrote: Everything to me looks like you are right on track for something in that 2:35-2:40 zone as of now. What is the goal marathon and what is the course profile like?
It's Portland, on October 5th. You can see the course profile here:
I'm mostly worried about the jump up between miles 16 and 17.5. I've been trying to build a good hill into my course towards the end of key runs, but if we have any 1.5 mile-long hills around here I haven't found them.
On August 04 2014 13:28 L_Master wrote: Also damn, Bonham got me this week. 12:49 to my 10:59. 13:00 of running is so legit. I'm taking long term approach, so I'll get there in 4-5 years.
Gonna try for 10hr on the bike and 40-50 miles this week though, so I guess your going to need a 140+ mile week Mr. Bonham
Ah, 140 miles is beyond my abilities. I'm actually on a recovery week right now, so I'll only be around 80 or something anyway. Enjoy the crazy fame and fortune that comes from topping a weekly Strava leader board. Try not to let it go to your head!
On August 05 2014 13:16 Bonham wrote: Ah, 140 miles is beyond my abilities. I'm actually on a recovery week right now, so I'll only be around 80 or something anyway. Enjoy the crazy fame and fortune that comes from topping a weekly Strava leader board. Try not to let it go to your head!
I'm number 1 after day 1 with a 50 minute run. I already took a screenshot.
gonna be a lighter week for me too, going to the beach Thursday-Monday. I'm sure I'll pack some running gear and sneak out for some morning beach runs though....
also a few new people have recently joined the Strava group, make sure to check the discussion forum in Strava and post your TL name if you haven't! It'll help when providing advice and recommendations in the thread.
Just did my first 5k+ run (5.93km) in almost 2 years yesterday, 4 weeks ahead of my planned schedule, though 6 minutes slower than my 5k goal of 30 mins. Still feels pretty good. Let's see if I can keep this up and run my first half marathon this year.
I realise it's nothing compared to what you guys are doing but I'm pretty proud of it still. I'm glad I'm finally moving towards a more active lifestyle again after being pretty much sedentary for over a year now and gaining about 10kg.
New on this thread, posted a ton on the weightlifting thread.
So I have my first ever 10k race in about 17 days. I'm quite poorly prepared but I'll see what hood I can make of it in the days to come. I had a nice "fast" 4km run today @ 27mins (at leadt it was very fast compared to my other runs).
Is adding 500m to the total length every other day a really stupid plan with some active recovery on the off days or do you suggest an alternative method? The plan is just to finish the race and not die very painfully.
I could add my runs from runkeeper/endomondo but I'm not sure how to. (You might find it on my name, Sindri Jarlsson)
On August 05 2014 16:15 Mikau wrote: I realise it's nothing compared to what you guys are doing but I'm pretty proud of it still. I'm glad I'm finally moving towards a more active lifestyle again after being pretty much sedentary for over a year now and gaining about 10kg.
First of all, welcome to the thread. I hope running treats you well, and that this small community helps you out and cheers you on as needed.
Second, this "nothing compared to what you guys are doing" thing is baloney. One of the greatest things about running, in my view, is that it meets you wherever you are. Lots of people are faster than you and me, we only we can run our respective PBs.
Last year, I got the chance to hear Chris Hadfield speak. He's an astronaut and also a pretty amazing guy. At the end of his lecture, he was taking questions from the audience, and a young mom got up to the mic and asked him to say something, anything in the way of life advice for her young son, who really loved Hadfield but couldn't make it to the event.
Hadfield gave a really lovely response that contained a great deal of truth. His closing remarks are particularly pertinent here. He was talking about one's general approach to life, but I think it applies to running as well as any other field.
He said:
“Never make your measure of personal success the end game. If the only thing that tells you that you were worthwhile is because you got to that last thing, you’re going to hate everything between here and there. Take pleasure in every single step. Enjoy everything. You can choose to be joyful or miserable about everything you do. Celebrate all the little, tiny victories, because they cumulatively become a really joyful life.”
I think that's a best attitude for long-term enjoyment of running. Indeed, it may be the only possible one.
I just started running about 2 weeks ago and picked up my first pair of running shoes. I tried on a ton and was thinking I'd just go by reviews online but only a few pairs didn't hurt my big toe, Nike Pegasus 31 and Adidas Glide 6. I went with the Nike because I heard it's a good beginner shoe, though they both felt good in the store.
Before this I was running in Onitsuka Tigers because I'm a retard. I've really taken to running though despite the pain I put myself through running in those, I can't wait to try real running shoes later this morning. I haven't taken them out yet, I've just been wearing them indoors making sure they feel good
On August 06 2014 09:09 sJarl wrote: New on this thread, posted a ton on the weightlifting thread.
So I have my first ever 10k race in about 17 days. I'm quite poorly prepared but I'll see what hood I can make of it in the days to come. I had a nice "fast" 4km run today @ 27mins (at leadt it was very fast compared to my other runs).
Is adding 500m to the total length every other day a really stupid plan with some active recovery on the off days or do you suggest an alternative method? The plan is just to finish the race and not die very painfully.
I could add my runs from runkeeper/endomondo but I'm not sure how to. (You might find it on my name, Sindri Jarlsson)
The 500m plan isn't exactly terrible perse, but it's not really the way to go about it.
Good news is your race is a 10k, you can sneak by those and maybe even a half, underprepared, without having a totally miserable experience. Bad news is, you only have 2.5 weeks to prepare.
I would do something like this:
Week 1 - 5 days of running 5-7 km, all running should be EASY. If these days feel challenging then you are running too quick. If you feel good at the end of a run however, it's okay to push the pace to a strong, but comfortable, pace for the last 1-2 km if you are feeling really good.
Week 2 - 4 days of 6-8 km, one day of 12km, again the pace should be easy
Week 3 - one day VERY easy, like the kind of slow you feel like you are shuffling along and would be almost embarrassed for people to see you running at that pace. At the end of that run, do 5-6x20s pickups at a significantly faster pace than you normally run, but not a sprint effort either. Chill till race day.
Pre Race - Jog easily for 5-8 mins about 15-20 min prior to race start. A few min before start do a few of those pickups. If the race offers a T-Shirt, DO NOT wear it before the race. You'll look like a goof if ya do.
Race - When the gun goes off...go backwords. Not literally run backwards, but you should aim to be in the back 10-20% at least for the first 2-3 mins. Reason being is that at race start everybody goes at like fucking madman. Starting a race off with a 70 second 400m is not a pleasant way to start.
That said, you'll still probably go out way to hard, so just focus on going back to that easy jog effort you've been doing. Around 7km if you feel you have more in the tank start to pick up the pace gradually and finish strong. With 100-200m to go, feel free to sprint for the line. This can be all out. If you paced wrong or really started pushing really hard at 7km this will fucking hurt....but you absolutely can do it. 10k mission complete!
One question about Strava: Can you pre-program it so it lets you know when you've ran your target distance or do you just go by the voice commands?
Ehm, not as far as I know. I usually just know the route I'm going on and where to turn around, run by time, or just check the thing to see when I'm at half the distance I want and turn around.
On August 06 2014 21:01 floor exercise wrote: I just started running about 2 weeks ago and picked up my first pair of running shoes. I tried on a ton and was thinking I'd just go by reviews online but only a few pairs didn't hurt my big toe, Nike Pegasus 31 and Adidas Glide 6. I went with the Nike because I heard it's a good beginner shoe, though they both felt good in the store.
Before this I was running in Onitsuka Tigers because I'm a retard. I've really taken to running though despite the pain I put myself through running in those, I can't wait to try real running shoes later this morning. I haven't taken them out yet, I've just been wearing them indoors making sure they feel good
Nice! Welcome to the club.
Hopefully the shoe feels good when you take it out for a test drive! Also if you have a GPS phone/watch consider joining the TL strava group: http://www.strava.com/clubs/Teamliquid
On August 05 2014 16:15 Mikau wrote: I realise it's nothing compared to what you guys are doing but I'm pretty proud of it still. I'm glad I'm finally moving towards a more active lifestyle again after being pretty much sedentary for over a year now and gaining about 10kg.
First of all, welcome to the thread. I hope running treats you well, and that this small community helps you out and cheers you on as needed.
Second, this "nothing compared to what you guys are doing" thing is baloney. One of the greatest things about running, in my view, is that it meets you wherever you are. Lots of people are faster than you and me, we only we can run our respective PBs.
Last year, I got the chance to hear Chris Hadfield speak. He's an astronaut and also a pretty amazing guy. At the end of his lecture, he was taking questions from the audience, and a young mom got up to the mic and asked him to say something, anything in the way of life advice for her young son, who really loved Hadfield but couldn't make it to the event.
Hadfield gave a really lovely response that contained a great deal of truth. His closing remarks are particularly pertinent here. He was talking about one's general approach to life, but I think it applies to running as well as any other field.
He said:
“Never make your measure of personal success the end game. If the only thing that tells you that you were worthwhile is because you got to that last thing, you’re going to hate everything between here and there. Take pleasure in every single step. Enjoy everything. You can choose to be joyful or miserable about everything you do. Celebrate all the little, tiny victories, because they cumulatively become a really joyful life.”
I think that's a best attitude for long-term enjoyment of running. Indeed, it may be the only possible one.
Thanks for the welcome. I joined the TL Strava group this morning and went for a bike ride (instead of a run, because of what felt like shin splints). I previously used Runkeeper but by the looks of it they both pretty much offer the same thing.
As for the Hadfield advice, while I agree with it on principle, I think it also depends on what you see as personal success. To me, every run, ride or swim I go on is huge personal succes and every single time it makes me happy, even though I don't necessarily enjoy all of the individual workouts. Especially running, because that's still relatively hard on my body compared to the feeling of being able to fly when I'm on my bike. I guess that's why I was always a cyclist first and runner second. So even though my long term ('end') goals might be to lose 50 pounds, run a half marathon this year and eventually down the road do triathlons, I can still set smaller shorter term goals and enjoy the personal success of finishing them.
Maybe that's just arguing semantics on what you consider your personal goals and what you consider individual steps though.
Did 5.1km today, tried to go as slow as possible. Was really hard to go so slow because you feel almost like walking.
Had plans on going 6-6.5km but had to cut it short, partly because running fasted is no fun and my left foot was hurting like hell. Hopefully it goes away soon.
Feels like a burning/cramping sensation on the outer side of the foot, strarting from where the little toes and back to the heel. Goddamnit, limping around is no good.
I guess I have a long date with my foam roller tonight. Any ideas how to best do fascial release exercices for the foot?
This is the second time I've run and had significant pain on my knees After looking at the reference in the OP, I'm pretty sure it's runners knee. It's werid though, because it says that it mostly occurs after you start running 40 miles a week, and right now I'm running 10....
The guide mentioned that my thighs might now have enough muscles to properly hold the kneecap, so I was thinking that perhaps hitting the gym is a good choice?
Also, after properly icing today, should I still try running tomorrow?
On August 08 2014 04:23 Z-BosoN wrote: This is the second time I've run and had significant pain on my knees After looking at the reference in the OP, I'm pretty sure it's runners knee. It's werid though, because it says that it mostly occurs after you start running 40 miles a week, and right now I'm running 10....
The guide mentioned that my thighs might now have enough muscles to properly hold the kneecap, so I was thinking that perhaps hitting the gym is a good choice?
Also, after properly icing today, should I still try running tomorrow?
Giving medical advice over the internet is really difficult. When is the knee painful? While running or afterwards? How fast are you running and can you run slower? Did you increase your mileage or intensity too fast? Rest for now until you fell you can run without any pain again and try some slow and short runs.
Not sure if doing intense strenght training will help or hurt you actually, you should gain enough strenght just from constantly running and slowly increasing mileage. Maybe try a solid warm-up routine with dynamic stretching and some lunges. I do the lunge matrix by Jay Johnson + Show Spoiler +
and some routine which I don't know the English equivalent of. It won't eliminate every knee problems one can have but it definitely helped my coordination and flexibility.
that's awesome. I can't wait for fall marathon season. Chicago and NYC are always fun to follow. And I'm running Marine Corps Marathon which doesn't draw pros (no prize money) but is still an awesome event to participate in.
On August 14 2014 13:04 LuckyFool wrote: that's awesome. I can't wait for fall marathon season. Chicago and NYC are always fun to follow. And I'm running Marine Corps Marathon which doesn't draw pros (no prize money) but is still an awesome event to participate in.
Also Berlin at 28.09. with some great runners. I'm not sure if anyone tries for the WR but we can expect some fast times.
Seems like some big races are coming up for our small community as well. Let's hope we all meet our goals.
There are the European Championships atm. Mo Farrah won the 10 000m which is probably the least surprising result ever. I highly recommend watching the women's race. The last two laps were amazing:
I was really shocked at how weak Farah looked in winning it, actually. It's one thing to read about his recent health travails and another to see him look so feeble.
Great race from Pavey; thanks for posting the link. My favorite bit of that video is when she comes around the corner with 300m to go after shooting to the front at the bell. You know that move hurt a lot, and to see her hold on all through that agonizing 3/4s of a lap is really inspiring.
Did my second 'serious' 5k+ training run this morning after what feels like a very lazy week and I'm literally taking 30+ seconds off my worst K splits, and almost 30s off my average (7:09 min/km to 6:41 min/km). And I even felt better and fitter afterwards too, like I could go another 5k lap. Progress is really fast at the start. If I keep this up that half marathon this year doesn't look as naive as I first thought.
Speaking of half marathons, the marathon of Amsterdam is in 2 months (October 19) and they also organise a half marathon on the same day. Seeing as how my goal for this year was to run half a marathon and the fact that it's an actual race rather than a random 21.1k run on my own I'm seriously considering signing up. I just think 2 months might be far too short to improve from the 5-6kish runs I'm doing at the moment to over 20 km.
What do you guys reckon, is it possible assuming I run an average of 3-4 times a week? How much of those 21km should be basic fitness and how much can you do what in Dutch is called 'on character'? All I'm hoping to do is finish (within the allowed 3 hours), I don't really care about my time/pace.
On August 15 2014 17:33 Mikau wrote: Did my second 'serious' 5k+ training run this morning after what feels like a very lazy week and I'm literally taking 30+ seconds off my worst K splits, and almost 30s off my average (7:09 min/km to 6:41 min/km). And I even felt better and fitter afterwards too, like I could go another 5k lap. Progress is really fast at the start. If I keep this up that half marathon this year doesn't look as naive as I first thought.
Nice! You'll improve a tremendous amount early on, even just by running nice and easy. It probably won't take too long before you feel like you are jogging faster than you could run all out for 1500m.
Just remember to keep your runs easy at first, bordering on too easy; and throw in some near sprint running at the end with nice walking full recovery to develop your strides explosive characteristics and the ability to run fast.
On August 16 2014 06:34 Mikau wrote: Speaking of half marathons, the marathon of Amsterdam is in 2 months (October 19) and they also organise a half marathon on the same day. Seeing as how my goal for this year was to run half a marathon and the fact that it's an actual race rather than a random 21.1k run on my own I'm seriously considering signing up. I just think 2 months might be far too short to improve from the 5-6kish runs I'm doing at the moment to over 20 km.
What do you guys reckon, is it possible assuming I run an average of 3-4 times a week? How much of those 21km should be basic fitness and how much can you do what in Dutch is called 'on character'? All I'm hoping to do is finish (within the allowed 3 hours), I don't really care about my time/pace.
My personal opinion is that I wouldn't worry about it, unless running a half marathon is a goal with special significance to you. Maybe I'm being elitist, but I'm not a big fan of setting goals of running a 10k, or a half, or a full, or w/e if you are new to running by and large. If it has special personal significance then go for it, but as a general rule of thumb I dislike it for two reasons
1) Tends to result in people trying to do too much running too soon, which leads to less enjoyment and a much higher probability of injury. 2) There isn't any focus impetus to improve. Yes, running more at first will help your fitness; but really at a newer level you wouldn't necessarily be running more to train for a half than you would a 5k in the first place, and the focus on running faster gives the focus on improvement and performance, and helps avoid developing an inefficient, lazy stride suited to shuffling through and surviving an event. You'll see tons of this when you watch the middle of the pack or further at a half marathon/full marathon.
The last time I saw a shuffling stride with no "pop" at an 800/mile race was...never.
I think people are more effective when they set a goal to run faster and my advice would be don't worry about the half marathon and focus on become a better runner. Right now you might be able to run a 5k in 30 min, so set a fall goal of running under 27 in the 5k, or something like that.
All I'm hoping to do is finish (within the allowed 3 hours), I don't really care about my time/pace.
That's were you lose me. Other than, as I mentioned before, having some personal significance to completing such a race...this isn't a good mindset to have for improving as a runner. It won't help your running ability much, might even hurt it, and if you go slow enough anybody can complete a half marathon. It's FAR more impressive to run even 7:00 mile or a 22 min 5k than it is to survive a marathon in 5 hours or something of the sort.
I'll admit though, that this post is probably somewhat elitist and might come off way harsher than I intended. If you're goals in running are anything more than just being healthy, there just isn't the incentive to rush to do a half or full marathon. Get faster at the shorter distances, develop a good, powerful stride, learn your body, then try out a half/full marathon. You'll be in position to train effectively for it, not just to survive at some slog pace, and then after the training/race you can make the decision and either decide that you really like these longer races and want to try a marathon, or decide that running the shorter stuff is more fun and decide to stick to running 800/1500/5000/10000.
Thanks for your response. Even though it might be elitist (I honestly wouldn't know, it's hard to tell elitist from just solid higher level advice when you're new ), it should at least give me something to think about.
First of all, I was never really interested in speed. This may seem like laziness or complacency, but I personally think it's just a difference in priority. I always thought speed is something you gain while working towards other goals. Same as weight loss really. It was the same when I was training towards Liege-Bastogne-Liege (pretty much the biggest 1 day biking race in Europe if not the world). Finishing that 245km hell of a race was always the focus, I didnt care if it took me 10, 11 or 12 hours. That's not to say though I just took it easy, and that's also true for the half marathon. Just because I "just want to finish" and haven't actually formulated any time goals doesn't mean I'm not planning on running it as fast as I can.
It doesn't really have much personal significance for me (other than "that's the goal I set when I started running and I'm planning to get there"). Eventually I dream of running an Iron Man and this is one of those smaller steps I feel I should take along the way.
I'll admit though, that this post is probably somewhat elitist and might come off way harsher than I intended. If you're goals in running are anything more than just being healthy, there just isn't the incentive to rush to do a half or full marathon. Get faster at the shorter distances, develop a good, powerful stride, learn your body, then try out a half/full marathon. You'll be in position to train effectively for it, not just to survive at some slog pace, and then after the training/race you can make the decision and either decide that you really like these longer races and want to try a marathon, or decide that running the shorter stuff is more fun and decide to stick to running 800/1500/5000/10000.
I also think these don't have to be mutually exclusive. I can do everything I can to try and get faster at the shorter distance and develop a good stride and still 'slog through this half marathon'. Running one now doesn't have to stop me from 'properly preparing' for one next year or whenever. I don't really see the harm in it if it makes me feel good about my running.
Is anyone watching the women's marathon at the European Championships? It's a tough, tough course and the Italian Straneo who won silver at Moscow last year is running with the same strategy. She's leading about 90% of the race and is slowly eliminating everyone else. And she looks really relaxed, smiling at the crowd and high-fiving children as the leader of a marathon ...
*Well Straneo got silver again and "lost" gold the same way as in Moscow.
Had one of those mornings where I was just on pretty much the entire run. Felt amazing, totally CRUSHED it. Definitely one of my more solid long runs if not my best ever.
14 miles at an 8:16 average pace. Closed with a 7:22 and felt like I had plenty in the tank still. Low humidity and temps in the 60's I'm sure helped with faster times this morning but MAN was I feeling good.
On August 15 2014 17:33 Mikau wrote: Did my second 'serious' 5k+ training run this morning after what feels like a very lazy week and I'm literally taking 30+ seconds off my worst K splits, and almost 30s off my average (7:09 min/km to 6:41 min/km). And I even felt better and fitter afterwards too, like I could go another 5k lap. Progress is really fast at the start. If I keep this up that half marathon this year doesn't look as naive as I first thought.
You are totally right. One of my favorite things about learning anything is how quickly you improve at the start–in running and elsewhere!
On August 16 2014 16:17 Mikau wrote: First of all, I was never really interested in speed. This may seem like laziness or complacency, but I personally think it's just a difference in priority. I always thought speed is something you gain while working towards other goals. Same as weight loss really.
If speeds not important to you, then it's not important to you. Nothing wrong there...even if I can't relate to that
I will say though that speed isn't something you really gain working towards other goals, namely if those goals are completion goals. You'll gain some speed, especially in the first 6-12 months as your aerobic system grows stronger but this will plateau. This assumes you train like the typical person does for completion, meaning they run lots of miles at easy pace with little else. Most people running say, a marathon, don't do much other than easy runs; you won't see marathon pace work, 10k speedwork, tempo running, etc. in the typical plan of a person whose only goal is to complete one. There is, after all, no need for any of that if one just wants to survive the race.
Nothing wrong with that, you just won't get faster. Once you start adding in all those workouts though, you're no longer worried about just completion in my opinion, and are now training to run as quickly as possible. To compete.
I'll admit though, that this post is probably somewhat elitist and might come off way harsher than I intended. If you're goals in running are anything more than just being healthy, there just isn't the incentive to rush to do a half or full marathon. Get faster at the shorter distances, develop a good, powerful stride, learn your body, then try out a half/full marathon. You'll be in position to train effectively for it, not just to survive at some slog pace, and then after the training/race you can make the decision and either decide that you really like these longer races and want to try a marathon, or decide that running the shorter stuff is more fun and decide to stick to running 800/1500/5000/10000.
I also think these don't have to be mutually exclusive. I can do everything I can to try and get faster at the shorter distance and develop a good stride and still 'slog through this half marathon'. Running one now doesn't have to stop me from 'properly preparing' for one next year or whenever. I don't really see the harm in it if it makes me feel good about my running.
Yes indeed. Of course at that point the question is more "can I run a HM as a newer running focusing on the 5k", to which the answer is yes. If nothing else it can serve as a good, aggressive long run. Just remember to take it easy the next few days after the race to recover properly.
On August 16 2014 22:15 LuckyFool wrote: Had one of those mornings where I was just on pretty much the entire run. Felt amazing, totally CRUSHED it. Definitely one of my more solid long runs if not my best ever.
14 miles at an 8:16 average pace. Closed with a 7:22 and felt like I had plenty in the tank still. Low humidity and temps in the 60's I'm sure helped with faster times this morning but MAN was I feeling good.
Sweet stuff, gotta love runs like this. These are the days that keep me coming back, where I just feel effortless at a good, quick tempo and everything just feels awesome!
Haven't posted in a while, but I have been fighting an injury for a bit here, its upper thigh right at waist height, like centre of the leg. I initially thought I had a groin pull, but after about 5 weeks of being over cautious and not really training, the pain has kind of localized to just that one area.
Anyone here experienced this before? its been 5 weeks, and while initially I would have trouble walking after a short run, I am making it up to 10k now, only really doing 1 run a week, just to see how the recovery is coming, as it doesn't hurt at all until I am well into a run. It also doesn't hurt nearly as much if I shorten my strides, I guess limiting the range of motion of my leg.
The internet wants me to believe it is a Rectus Femoris Tendon Inflammation. I just switched jobs so my benefits are gone for another 2 months, no physio for me this time around, so hoping someone is familiar with this.
Starting to get slightly concerned as next weekend is a HM then 2 weeks after a 17km tough mudder course, with the following week another HM(optional at this point, I might not do it)
On August 15 2014 09:30 Bonham wrote: I was really shocked at how weak Farah looked in winning it, actually. It's one thing to read about his recent health travails and another to see him look so feeble.
Yeah, really hoping Mo is able to stabilize and train hard again soon.
On August 15 2014 09:30 Bonham wrote: I was really shocked at how weak Farah looked in winning it, actually. It's one thing to read about his recent health travails and another to see him look so feeble.
Yeah, really hoping Mo is able to stabilize and train hard again soon.
No ascent race report yet, we need all ze details!
Today I did my "Run so slow that you're embarrased if someone is watching you"-run. I haven't done something like this in quite a while and is pretty hard to do. I ran mostly on track and tried to never let my heartrate get above 135. I pretty much needed ~3.00 on average per 400m, so 7:30/km, 131 average heartrate. 5.9km total. Was a good way to break in my new light shoes though.
I also went to see an orthopaedist today and he suggests to do an isokenetics-analysis for my hips and knees to analyze where my pain comes from. My bones and my mobility were perfectly fine, and since I have had light pain for so long it shouldn't be a strain or a torn ligament. Has anyone experience with isokinetics? It will cost me ~160€ initially and by now I don't trust doctors easily with their methods (accupuncture was basically giving away 350 bucks for free). Would love to here your experiences, if any.
On August 15 2014 09:30 Bonham wrote: I was really shocked at how weak Farah looked in winning it, actually. It's one thing to read about his recent health travails and another to see him look so feeble.
Yeah, really hoping Mo is able to stabilize and train hard again soon.
No ascent race report yet, we need all ze details!
He wrote a nice recap in the notes on the run on Strava.
Killer run dude. I ran a half in West Virginia a few months ago which I thought was killer (had like 1500ft of gain) I can't even imagine doing the Pike's Peak Ascent...
On August 19 2014 03:18 Malinor wrote: Today I did my "Run so slow that you're embarrased if someone is watching you"-run. I haven't done something like this in quite a while and is pretty hard to do. I ran mostly on track and tried to never let my heartrate get above 135. I pretty much needed ~3.00 on average per 400m, so 7:30/km, 131 average heartrate. 5.9km total. Was a good way to break in my new light shoes though.
I also went to see an orthopaedist today and he suggests to do an isokenetics-analysis for my hips and knees to analyze where my pain comes from. My bones and my mobility were perfectly fine, and since I have had light pain for so long it shouldn't be a strain or a torn ligament. Has anyone experience with isokinetics? It will cost me ~160€ initially and by now I don't trust doctors easily with their methods (accupuncture was basically giving away 350 bucks for free). Would love to here your experiences, if any.
If you're in the typical 190-200 for HR max that's definitely a nice easy run. I find one days I'm feeling good 70-75% of max is a good cruising heart rate. If I feel tired I tend to keep it around 65% of max, and if I really want a recovery specific day I'm doing 55-60% of max...which feels rrreeaaalllyyy fuckin slow. I don't really train by HR though, I just know how certain HR tends to feel. Anything above 75% of max and you are definitely NOT running easy.
On August 19 2014 03:03 L_Master wrote: No ascent race report yet, we need all ze details!
Haha, yeah. After the race was great, just to zone out for a while (aka the whole rest of the weekend).
So, as far as my goals for the season, I'm 1/3. I did finish well enough in the Mt. Evans Ascent to get the granite, but I was 24th at the La Luz (goal had been an ambitious top ten) and I was pretty far out from my goal of going Sub-3 hours on the Pikes Peak Ascent. I'm kind of middle of the road disappointed with this, but it has been a pretty busy year and you really do reap what you sow with regards to training for these types of runs. Anyone out there who is planning to race up mountains: do lots of time above 10,000ft in order to prepare!!
Wow, what a run/walk to finish it out. This was my first time running the Ascent (in full) and was a pretty amazing experience. To start with my friend Ben K has been putting in his dues and it was pretty clear he was going to run faster than I could. So, who to run with?
The Germans! Several countries were represented at the Ascent this year, and going onto the trail and the first major climb I noticed a woman marked with black/red/gold near me with a very metered cadence who just gave me the impression that she had a PLAN. For the first 4 miles on trail I stuck with this lady, during which time we passed many runners, but only those who had gone out too fast. Her pace didn't change very much at all during this section, very steady and really instructive on how this sort of race should be run.
So, of course, getting to the easier middle section I decided to open up the throttle a bit and left the German (Maier, by her bib) behind. Beautiful day, tried to keep my breathing under control, but probably went a bit faster than I ought to have. Elevation still not an issue. Made a new friend, Sam, paced for a while together and just tried to cruise.
Aaaah, elevation. Going into the run I once again definitely didn't do enough hard running/training at elevation. Hitting the Barr Trail water station, I was just congratulating myself on not having walked yet. Yet. Barr Trail to A frame I really started to feel poorly (steeper than it looks, too). I walked then, while sucking down a gel, hoping this would refocus my effort.
A-Frame, okay, I should be okay. Just another 3ish miles!! The gravel, the climbing, the O2 depletion left me with too many excuses and I began to lose the race and began walking a LOT.
German runner passes me at this point, probably going at exactly the same pace as before. I am seriously impressed with her strength and good judgement (obviously practiced and semi-pro). Wow! I will have to learn from this. Likewise, RMR's Silke Koester passed me a short while afterward, and probably ran a very similar style of smart race. Kudos!
It doesn't end. You can see the face of the mountain, all of it, but you still have 2.5 miles left, one aid station, and a ton of elevation to go. Gravel, gravel, gravel. I continue to walk a lot, but get short bursts of energy by telling myself that it only gets harder and that running on the sections with good surfaces or medium grade was the only way to get ahead. Still, mostly power walking and reminding myself to breath, breath, breath.
Last aid station to the Summit was crazy-tough. I don't know if it was the walking or just the distance, but my left calf muscle began cramping up, just in time for the "stairs:" sections of rock scramble prior to the finish. Ouch! I did run it in, and held off a South African runner coming up strong behind me.
Overall: pretty good race, for me. 3:14 is a good number, but a bit off of what I had set as my goal. 146th place out of about 1700 finishers. Beautiful racing conditions, and great to run it with friends and RMR teammates. More training at altitude is needed, steady pacing, will be the only way to improve on this for me.
Bonus: Afterward was pretty awesome, too. The view from the top is spectacular, and they had a ton of snacks and gatorade/water for us to gulp down before heading down the mountain on the shuttle. Really a beautiful day - I can't imagine what that race would be if the weather wasn't cooperating.
ALSO: looking over the results again, I was surprised to see that a fellow runner originally from Polson, MT, won the Double (Ascent on Saturday followed by Marathon on Sunday). Hell yeah, Jason!!
A couple of crazy goofballs (friend in blue actually trained well for it, ran a 3:00:30)
On August 19 2014 03:03 L_Master wrote: No ascent race report yet, we need all ze details!
Haha, yeah. After the race was great, just to zone out for a while (aka the whole rest of the weekend).
So, as far as my goals for the season, I'm 1/3. I did finish well enough in the Mt. Evans Ascent to get the granite, but I was 24th at the La Luz (goal had been an ambitious top ten) and I was pretty far out from my goal of going Sub-3 hours on the Pikes Peak Ascent. I'm kind of middle of the road disappointed with this, but it has been a pretty busy year and you really do reap what you sow with regards to training for these types of runs. Anyone out there who is planning to race up mountains: do lots of time above 10,000ft in order to prepare!!
Wow, what a run/walk to finish it out. This was my first time running the Ascent (in full) and was a pretty amazing experience. To start with my friend Ben K has been putting in his dues and it was pretty clear he was going to run faster than I could. So, who to run with?
The Germans! Several countries were represented at the Ascent this year, and going onto the trail and the first major climb I noticed a woman marked with black/red/gold near me with a very metered cadence who just gave me the impression that she had a PLAN. For the first 4 miles on trail I stuck with this lady, during which time we passed many runners, but only those who had gone out too fast. Her pace didn't change very much at all during this section, very steady and really instructive on how this sort of race should be run.
So, of course, getting to the easier middle section I decided to open up the throttle a bit and left the German (Maier, by her bib) behind. Beautiful day, tried to keep my breathing under control, but probably went a bit faster than I ought to have. Elevation still not an issue. Made a new friend, Sam, paced for a while together and just tried to cruise.
Aaaah, elevation. Going into the run I once again definitely didn't do enough hard running/training at elevation. Hitting the Barr Trail water station, I was just congratulating myself on not having walked yet. Yet. Barr Trail to A frame I really started to feel poorly (steeper than it looks, too). I walked then, while sucking down a gel, hoping this would refocus my effort.
A-Frame, okay, I should be okay. Just another 3ish miles!! The gravel, the climbing, the O2 depletion left me with too many excuses and I began to lose the race and began walking a LOT.
German runner passes me at this point, probably going at exactly the same pace as before. I am seriously impressed with her strength and good judgement (obviously practiced and semi-pro). Wow! I will have to learn from this. Likewise, RMR's Silke Koester passed me a short while afterward, and probably ran a very similar style of smart race. Kudos!
It doesn't end. You can see the face of the mountain, all of it, but you still have 2.5 miles left, one aid station, and a ton of elevation to go. Gravel, gravel, gravel. I continue to walk a lot, but get short bursts of energy by telling myself that it only gets harder and that running on the sections with good surfaces or medium grade was the only way to get ahead. Still, mostly power walking and reminding myself to breath, breath, breath.
Last aid station to the Summit was crazy-tough. I don't know if it was the walking or just the distance, but my left calf muscle began cramping up, just in time for the "stairs:" sections of rock scramble prior to the finish. Ouch! I did run it in, and held off a South African runner coming up strong behind me.
Overall: pretty good race, for me. 3:14 is a good number, but a bit off of what I had set as my goal. 146th place out of about 1700 finishers. Beautiful racing conditions, and great to run it with friends and RMR teammates. More training at altitude is needed, steady pacing, will be the only way to improve on this for me.
Bonus: Afterward was pretty awesome, too. The view from the top is spectacular, and they had a ton of snacks and gatorade/water for us to gulp down before heading down the mountain on the shuttle. Really a beautiful day - I can't imagine what that race would be if the weather wasn't cooperating.
ALSO: looking over the results again, I was surprised to see that a fellow runner originally from Polson, MT, won the Double (Ascent on Saturday followed by Marathon on Sunday). Hell yeah, Jason!!
A couple of crazy goofballs (friend in blue actually trained well for it, ran a 3:00:30)
Holy shit, that elevation profile. Thanks for the write-up. I really enjoyed it. 146th is a great achievement and you should be proud of. it.
I finally had a temporun today which felt like a breakthrough. I managed to run at an ambitious racepace and still felt OK afterwards. No way I can run this the whole distance at the moment but I still have two months left and I'm getting there.
Thanks, Don_Julio! 'Glad also that you're feeling good, GL GL GL!
The WMRA Long Distance Challenge seems to hit Pikes every 4 years or so, looking at the history. This was my first time running Pikes, so I can't comment on the level of international participation year-to-year. It was pretty cool seeing the race report from Team Germany. I guess the gal I mentioned got top three in her sex/age group, so that's pretty cool.
Im doing a training program that goes by heartrate. Today's run (and this is about 1 run a week) is interval training. It tells me to do threshold for 2 min and then 1 min rest (repeat 10 times). It asks me to stay under 173 bbm. Does this make any sense to anyone? When I go at threshold my hr is 180-185 and, while I understand the point of limiting my HR for my other weekly runs, should I be holding back on this type of training?
Im doing a training program that goes by heartrate. Today's run (and this is about 1 run a week) is interval training. It tells me to do threshold for 2 min and then 1 min rest (repeat 10 times). It asks me to stay under 173 bbm. Does this make any sense to anyone? When I go at threshold my hr is 180-185 and, while I understand the point of limiting my HR for my other weekly runs, should I be holding back on this type of training?
What is your HR max, and what % of max HR does this program want you running at for threshold?
As for "holding back", yes you should in the sense that a threshold run is not a time trial, so you are always holding yourself back during tempo runs as one doesn't do them at 5k pace.
HR isn't bad, but I'm a big fan of doing tempos by feel more than anything. The HR can help you find that right feel to some extent, and can give other useful data, but what you're looking for is that feeling of going fast and strong, but not straining to get through or feeling like you are working overly hard.
I just started running 2 weeks ago (absolute beginner), but i already realized the benefits from it. I use a running app on my smartphone which helps me analyse my tempo and speed, but I'm so out of shape I want to start easy (with no injuries as a main goal).
I'm now running 3 times a week about 3.5 KM, and i want to improve my speed first, but I think it's hard to keep running this distance. I stop 2 times with a 2 minute walk and an overall speed of 9.5 km / hour. I'm really looking forward to keep posting here and to keep improving. It's fun to read about the progress of other people here as well :-)
I'm going from my self-imposed exile on the couch to the 12-mile Tough Mudder in less than two months.
Up until I used to swim three hours a day and run up and down the 40-50% incline hills outside the nearby football stadium as part of that practice, so it shouldn't be that bad. And since then, leg day's been helping a lot.
I started running a short while ago and I'm a beginner in all aspects. I bought new shoes today and the store was great, personal advice, analysis of my feet, video analysis on a treadmill and so on. I'm looking forward to tomorrow when I have the pleasure to do my first run with them. :-)
Someone at work who runs a lot told me running shoes, and footwear with arch support in general, can be bad because the arch is what absorbs impact, and when you support the arch it transfers the stress to your knees instead, where you don't want it. He said he runs in cheap crappy sneakers that don't provide arch support in order to prevent this, and has also used the foot-shaped weird shoes. Is there logic to his position?
I also read an article about specialized footwear like running shoes, that they increases the amount of injuries. But that article stated that people get overconfident because of their specialized shoes. Now i've googled it (so i'm not an expert), and it appears heavily debated if running shoes will help prevent or increase the amount of injuries. So my advice is to just stay very connected with your body, don't overdo it. Stop if you feel pain, and just increase your speed and mileage very slowly each week. Also it's not a problem when you have a week of less impressive results..
Can't really contribute to the thread much, but just wanted to say I've begun running to train for a 10km race in October with the wife (and her parents). She's a lot thinner than me, but at first she could barely run 500m without slowing to a walk. About 3-4 weeks later we are doing about 5.5 km without any walking. Gonna work up to 10 km then work on getting quicker at it, I suppose. Fun stuff, and it's nice to exercise together when I usually just lift weights alone. (Although in the past few months we've been biking together, too.) I'm impressed she's improved so rapidly.
Anyway, running is fun and I can feel the benefits in other areas of life for sure!
On August 23 2014 06:21 micronesia wrote: Someone at work who runs a lot told me running shoes, and footwear with arch support in general, can be bad because the arch is what absorbs impact, and when you support the arch it transfers the stress to your knees instead, where you don't want it. He said he runs in cheap crappy sneakers that don't provide arch support in order to prevent this, and has also used the foot-shaped weird shoes. Is there logic to his position?
There is logic to his argument, and here's why:
This is the physics of an arch. The forces placed on an arch get dissipated down to the ground because of it's shape. The components (bricks, bones, etc) lock each other in when there's a downward force. In fact, as more pressure and force enters the equation, the arch gets stronger. This is why the Romans used arches for all of their massive projects such as the Colloseum or the aquaducts.
When you fill in the gap under the arch, the components rest on the filler and lose that necessary pressure on the inner wall of the arch. Without that pressure, the arch loses it's strongest structural integrity.
The point of all of that is because the foot is such a beautifully designed piece of nature. The foot is structured to become stronger the more it's used. Arch support came about because when someone stops running for a long time and then they go for a long run, their foot hurts. But the cause was never the arch, it's because the muscles and tendons were weakened from months or years of inactivity and they need time to strengthen. As with any weak body, a slow buildup of work will avoid injury.
I personally hate the idea of arch support because it's based on horrible science and completely ignores the foot's natural state. I would actually love to run in those vibram shoes because it puts the foot in it's most natural condition, but I have an extraneous issue that prevents me from doing that
I'm no expert in the field of arch support, but I do have some experience with vibrams that seems relevant here. If you buy a pair, especially the weird ones that have no padding and make your feet look like those of the Hulk, be very careful with easing into them. If you suddenly start doing all your miles with them, you'll boost your risk of injury substantially. If you've worn padded shoes all your life, your body needs time to adjust to shoes with basically no padding.
I wholeheartedly second Bonham's post (above). Be VERY careful when you are beginning to run in any sort of minimalist training shoes.
I personally think that a bit of cushion is actually really important. As "beautifully designed" as our feet and legs are, running for long periods of time on pavement and asphalt WILL do damage if a) you don't build up the mileage carefully or b) your shoes aren't helping absorb some of the shock. Pick good running surfaces, no matter which shoes you have on, and listen to your body to decide how much mileage is right.
I ran in fairly minimalist shoes (NB M730's) for about 2 years until this Spring when my Achilles gave out. I was running at sea level, too fast, and on pavement for days in a row while visiting friends so I can't say if it was the mileage, the surface, or the shoe. Coming back from this injury, though, I know that I was having a lot of pain and setbacks when running normal/short distances in the minimalist shoes vs some nicely padded shoes I purchased soon afterward.
Really quickly: HOLY CRAP! All this trail running has apparently imparted some speed: I just ran 17:09 5K with a bunch of friends at a local fun run! Either that, or I'm just not so good at trail running and rather decent at 5k-10k.
Best part: 2nd in age group (5th overall) meant that I took home a peach pie! Mmmmmm, delicious speed.
On August 25 2014 03:51 mtmentat wrote: I would like to be the first (via Strava-stalking) to congratulate Bonham on an amazing effort in the Edmonton Half Marathon today.
I will leave it up to you, Bonham, to reveal (or not) how well you did in a race report.
yeah I saw that too, sick stuff.
also great job on a 17 5K, so close to sub 17 too! mad speed.
I had my own milestone today, under 45 in a 10K (44:37) pretty happy with that, lately I've been putting most of my focus into building up my base for marathon run in October, happy to keep my 10K pace in the low 7:00/mile.
I would like to be the first (via Strava-stalking) to congratulate Bonham on an amazing effort in the Edmonton Half Marathon today.
I will leave it up to you, Bonham, to reveal (or not) how well you did in a race report.
yeah I saw that too, sick stuff.
also great job on a 17 5K, so close to sub 17 too! mad speed.
I had my own milestone today, under 45 in a 10K (44:37) pretty happy with that, lately I've been putting most of my focus into building up my base for marathon run in October, happy to keep my 10K pace in the low 7:00/mile.
Thanks! 'Really fun seeing all our progress over this year: this Fall's running is going to rock (and already has!). Good luck with the marathon: that distance/time running is killer.
Thanks dudes! I've had a super awesome, jam-packed day, but I'm going to write a race report tomorrow and post it in various bits of the interwebs, including here.
Im doing a training program that goes by heartrate. Today's run (and this is about 1 run a week) is interval training. It tells me to do threshold for 2 min and then 1 min rest (repeat 10 times). It asks me to stay under 173 bbm. Does this make any sense to anyone? When I go at threshold my hr is 180-185 and, while I understand the point of limiting my HR for my other weekly runs, should I be holding back on this type of training?
What is your HR max, and what % of max HR does this program want you running at for threshold?
As for "holding back", yes you should in the sense that a threshold run is not a time trial, so you are always holding yourself back during tempo runs as one doesn't do them at 5k pace.
HR isn't bad, but I'm a big fan of doing tempos by feel more than anything. The HR can help you find that right feel to some extent, and can give other useful data, but what you're looking for is that feeling of going fast and strong, but not straining to get through or feeling like you are working overly hard.
I believe the threshold run asks for 80-85% of max which in my case is ~195-200. The HR training is helping me develop the feel that you mention, which I didn't instinctively have before.
I know that getting your HR down takes time but eff me! do I have a hard time seeing 70% of my max being a good tempo for me considering that's my HR when I (literally walk). Slight exaggeration on 'literally' but close nonetheless. The program has my recovery runs at 70-75% of my max which I have a hard time staying within (always popping over). The bulk of the runs are at 75-80% with one run a week working on intervals/threshold @ 80-85.
My race report turned out to be an absolute wall of text. I had a great time and indulged myself in writing about that great time. For those of you with more free time than good sense, find it encased below.
I got up around 5 on Sunday morning after an extremely bad sleep to drink some coffee and try and calm my nerves. I hadn’t raced since last August before Sunday and I found the prospect worrying and exciting in equal measure. A bit of chocolate milk and some reading helped me stay calm.
One of the many things worrying me was the weather. It’s been beastly hot here for most of August, but in the days leading up to the marathon it seemed we had crossed abruptly into fall. It was somewhere south of 10 degrees C (that’s 50 Farenheit) when I got up, and I thought that might be too cold for comfort during the race. I was wrong about this. I did my warmup in a hoodie and felt very comfortable racing in a t-shirt.
I’d done a bad job of timing my warmup, leaving about 10 minutes from finishing my routine until the start of the race. The warmup itself went very well, though. I did 20 minutes of easy cruising with a few accelerations to race pace and felt very ready. I also ran into a guy I knew who was gunning for a 1:23. Chatting with him helped calm me down a good deal. (He also made his time, yeehaw!)
Anyway, I wildly underestimated how crowded the race chute would be, and had to pull some bold moves to get up near the front before the national anthem started.
Normally I am the last person in the world the barge through a crowd–and I say this as a Canadian. We invented being passive-aggressive with manners! But the prospect of losing two minutes weaving through the pack outweighed the risks of being rude in my mind. One of the advantages of being skinny is that you can slide through crowds pretty easy, I guess.
And then the gun went off and everyone rushed through the gate. In my last few races I’ve done a bad job of pacing, going out considerably faster than goal pace and then suffering for it in the later stages. Wise to the wiles of the pre-race atmosphere, this time I did a better job of running my own race. But I still went out a bit too fast.
The fact that everyone else does it doesn’t help any. It kind of blows my mind that, even among the most experienced runners at a race of this size, nearly everyone blows up within the first half. About 30 runners hit the first mile somewhere around 5:30, and for all but a handful, this was practically suicide pace.
The field slowly broke up between 4k and 9k. I passed a good number of people here, but not because I was trying to make a statement. Everyone else was just slowing down. After forcibly trying to hold up between 2k and 4k, I’d settled into what felt like a sustainable pace with 3:27km showing on my watch. I’d come up on a pack of runners and listen to their breathing. They all sounded like they were working far too hard to me. I’d push a little bit to get them out of my immediate field of vision so I could concentrate on running my pace. I think your subconcious will lock you into the pace of whoever you are close to if you are not careful, and I didn’t want that to happen yet because I didn’t think anyone around me would get under 1:15. I remember hitting 5k at 17:30 or so and 10k at 34-something.
At around 9k I fell in with two guys who seemed like good partners. I recognized both of them from our local running scene and knew they both had marathon PRs in the mid 2:30s.
This was the best part of the race for me. In my four years of running I had never experienced this: real racing, on a course with something at stake, against people around my ability. We three cruised along, weighing our remaining strength and wondering what our rivals were capable of, listening to the cheers of the crowd and our own breathing. I hope never forget this feeling.
This brought on another first for me. I had to think of something to do if it came down to the wire. Should I make like Farah and try to surge ahead in the final 800? Should I hit it with 5k to go and try to hang on? Should I split the difference and make a move heading into the last mile? It was exciting to think about these things–or to try to, anyway. Fatigue was beginning to dull my mind a bit.
Lucky for me, my chess-playing abilities didn’t enter into the equation. Around 13k–which is also when I saw a dude running the full marathon in a Batman costume–I looked down at my watch and saw that it read 3:28/km. We were slowing down.
I pushed a bit, hoping I wouldn’t spark an 8k dash for the finish. I hit the next two k in 3:24 and 3:25. My two rivals mostly hung on. I didn’t look behind me, but I could hear their watches beep every kilometre, and the crowd call out their names. My lead couldn’t have been more than a hundred metres.
With 5k to go, where I had planned to hit the jets if we were still bunched up, I found my jets weren’t much in the mood for being hit. I hung on, feeling a bit like a hunted animal, wondering when I would be passed. The half marathon course overlaped the 10k course at this point, so the road became thick with other runners and I lost track of my pursuers.
But at 2k to go, I was still in the lead. There is a long bridge in Edmonton called the High Level that I often run over, including when I’ve got about 2k to go on medium-long and long runs. I try to push it when I’m on it, and I tried to pretend I was on the High Level at this point.
It worked. I managed a surge or two to ward off a sprint finish, crossing the line 15 seconds ahead of my pursuers.
Other than a 1:15 finish, I’d hoped to land somewhere in the top 10 of this race. The half marathon is usually the marquee event on the local running calendar, but I still thought a 1:14 or so would put me somewhere around sixth.
But this turned out to be a scorching field. The winner clocked 1:03:37. Second place was 1:03:58, and third was 1:04:16. A guy named Kip Kangogo who is probably the strongest runner in the province and who has a legitimate shot at making the Canadian team for Rio 2016, and who I thought was the odds-on favorite to win, finished fourth in 1:05:21.
A bit of googling revealed the top two dudes as sub-2:15 marathoners. Ian Burrell, who was second, finished third at the US Half Marathon Championships last year.
So I’m probably more proud of 9th place than I have any right to be. Actually, my only real negative from the whole experience is that I didn’t get to see the elite field go by because of the course route. Those dudes are on a whole other plane, and it would have been great to see them in battle against one another.
And now, of course, I’m chomping at the bit to get to Portland.
On August 26 2014 12:19 Bonham wrote: My race report turned out to be an absolute wall of text. I had a great time and indulged myself in writing about that great time. For those of you with more free time than good sense, find it encased below.
I got up around 5 on Sunday morning after an extremely bad sleep to drink some coffee and try and calm my nerves. I hadn’t raced since last August before Sunday and I found the prospect worrying and exciting in equal measure. A bit of chocolate milk and some reading helped me stay calm.
One of the many things worrying me was the weather. It’s been beastly hot here for most of August, but in the days leading up to the marathon it seemed we had crossed abruptly into fall. It was somewhere south of 10 degrees C (that’s 50 Farenheit) when I got up, and I thought that might be too cold for comfort during the race. I was wrong about this. I did my warmup in a hoodie and felt very comfortable racing in a t-shirt.
I’d done a bad job of timing my warmup, leaving about 10 minutes from finishing my routine until the start of the race. The warmup itself went very well, though. I did 20 minutes of easy cruising with a few accelerations to race pace and felt very ready. I also ran into a guy I knew who was gunning for a 1:23. Chatting with him helped calm me down a good deal. (He also made his time, yeehaw!)
Anyway, I wildly underestimated how crowded the race chute would be, and had to pull some bold moves to get up near the front before the national anthem started.
Normally I am the last person in the world the barge through a crowd–and I say this as a Canadian. We invented being passive-aggressive with manners! But the prospect of losing two minutes weaving through the pack outweighed the risks of being rude in my mind. One of the advantages of being skinny is that you can slide through crowds pretty easy, I guess.
And then the gun went off and everyone rushed through the gate. In my last few races I’ve done a bad job of pacing, going out considerably faster than goal pace and then suffering for it in the later stages. Wise to the wiles of the pre-race atmosphere, this time I did a better job of running my own race. But I still went out a bit too fast.
The fact that everyone else does it doesn’t help any. It kind of blows my mind that, even among the most experienced runners at a race of this size, nearly everyone blows up within the first half. About 30 runners hit the first mile somewhere around 5:30, and for all but a handful, this was practically suicide pace.
The field slowly broke up between 4k and 9k. I passed a good number of people here, but not because I was trying to make a statement. Everyone else was just slowing down. After forcibly trying to hold up between 2k and 4k, I’d settled into what felt like a sustainable pace with 3:27km showing on my watch. I’d come up on a pack of runners and listen to their breathing. They all sounded like they were working far too hard to me. I’d push a little bit to get them out of my immediate field of vision so I could concentrate on running my pace. I think your subconcious will lock you into the pace of whoever you are close to if you are not careful, and I didn’t want that to happen yet because I didn’t think anyone around me would get under 1:15. I remember hitting 5k at 17:30 or so and 10k at 34-something.
At around 9k I fell in with two guys who seemed like good partners. I recognized both of them from our local running scene and knew they both had marathon PRs in the mid 2:30s.
This was the best part of the race for me. In my four years of running I had never experienced this: real racing, on a course with something at stake, against people around my ability. We three cruised along, weighing our remaining strength and wondering what our rivals were capable of, listening to the cheers of the crowd and our own breathing. I hope never forget this feeling.
This brought on another first for me. I had to think of something to do if it came down to the wire. Should I make like Farah and try to surge ahead in the final 800? Should I hit it with 5k to go and try to hang on? Should I split the difference and make a move heading into the last mile? It was exciting to think about these things–or to try to, anyway. Fatigue was beginning to dull my mind a bit.
Lucky for me, my chess-playing abilities didn’t enter into the equation. Around 13k–which is also when I saw a dude running the full marathon in a Batman costume–I looked down at my watch and saw that it read 3:28/km. We were slowing down.
I pushed a bit, hoping I wouldn’t spark an 8k dash for the finish. I hit the next two k in 3:24 and 3:25. My two rivals mostly hung on. I didn’t look behind me, but I could hear their watches beep every kilometre, and the crowd call out their names. My lead couldn’t have been more than a hundred metres.
With 5k to go, where I had planned to hit the jets if we were still bunched up, I found my jets weren’t much in the mood for being hit. I hung on, feeling a bit like a hunted animal, wondering when I would be passed. The half marathon course overlaped the 10k course at this point, so the road became thick with other runners and I lost track of my pursuers.
But at 2k to go, I was still in the lead. There is a long bridge in Edmonton called the High Level that I often run over, including when I’ve got about 2k to go on medium-long and long runs. I try to push it when I’m on it, and I tried to pretend I was on the High Level at this point.
It worked. I managed a surge or two to ward off a sprint finish, crossing the line 15 seconds ahead of my pursuers.
Other than a 1:15 finish, I’d hoped to land somewhere in the top 10 of this race. The half marathon is usually the marquee event on the local running calendar, but I still thought a 1:14 or so would put me somewhere around sixth.
But this turned out to be a scorching field. The winner clocked 1:03:37. Second place was 1:03:58, and third was 1:04:16. A guy named Kip Kangogo who is probably the strongest runner in the province and who has a legitimate shot at making the Canadian team for Rio 2016, and who I thought was the odds-on favorite to win, finished fourth in 1:05:21.
A bit of googling revealed the top two dudes as sub-2:15 marathoners. Ian Burrell, who was second, finished third at the US Half Marathon Championships last year.
So I’m probably more proud of 9th place than I have any right to be. Actually, my only real negative from the whole experience is that I didn’t get to see the elite field go by because of the course route. Those dudes are on a whole other plane, and it would have been great to see them in battle against one another.
And now, of course, I’m chomping at the bit to get to Portland.
Shite that's cool! Great read! Nice to see a fellow Albertan too as well.
My thoughts when I did my HM was 1:40 of "fuck this sucks... fuck this sucks..." into crossing the finish line and almost passing out.
On August 26 2014 12:19 Bonham wrote: My race report turned out to be an absolute wall of text. I had a great time and indulged myself in writing about that great time. For those of you with more free time than good sense, find it encased below.
I got up around 5 on Sunday morning after an extremely bad sleep to drink some coffee and try and calm my nerves. I hadn’t raced since last August before Sunday and I found the prospect worrying and exciting in equal measure. A bit of chocolate milk and some reading helped me stay calm.
One of the many things worrying me was the weather. It’s been beastly hot here for most of August, but in the days leading up to the marathon it seemed we had crossed abruptly into fall. It was somewhere south of 10 degrees C (that’s 50 Farenheit) when I got up, and I thought that might be too cold for comfort during the race. I was wrong about this. I did my warmup in a hoodie and felt very comfortable racing in a t-shirt.
I’d done a bad job of timing my warmup, leaving about 10 minutes from finishing my routine until the start of the race. The warmup itself went very well, though. I did 20 minutes of easy cruising with a few accelerations to race pace and felt very ready. I also ran into a guy I knew who was gunning for a 1:23. Chatting with him helped calm me down a good deal. (He also made his time, yeehaw!)
Anyway, I wildly underestimated how crowded the race chute would be, and had to pull some bold moves to get up near the front before the national anthem started.
Normally I am the last person in the world the barge through a crowd–and I say this as a Canadian. We invented being passive-aggressive with manners! But the prospect of losing two minutes weaving through the pack outweighed the risks of being rude in my mind. One of the advantages of being skinny is that you can slide through crowds pretty easy, I guess.
And then the gun went off and everyone rushed through the gate. In my last few races I’ve done a bad job of pacing, going out considerably faster than goal pace and then suffering for it in the later stages. Wise to the wiles of the pre-race atmosphere, this time I did a better job of running my own race. But I still went out a bit too fast.
The fact that everyone else does it doesn’t help any. It kind of blows my mind that, even among the most experienced runners at a race of this size, nearly everyone blows up within the first half. About 30 runners hit the first mile somewhere around 5:30, and for all but a handful, this was practically suicide pace.
The field slowly broke up between 4k and 9k. I passed a good number of people here, but not because I was trying to make a statement. Everyone else was just slowing down. After forcibly trying to hold up between 2k and 4k, I’d settled into what felt like a sustainable pace with 3:27km showing on my watch. I’d come up on a pack of runners and listen to their breathing. They all sounded like they were working far too hard to me. I’d push a little bit to get them out of my immediate field of vision so I could concentrate on running my pace. I think your subconcious will lock you into the pace of whoever you are close to if you are not careful, and I didn’t want that to happen yet because I didn’t think anyone around me would get under 1:15. I remember hitting 5k at 17:30 or so and 10k at 34-something.
At around 9k I fell in with two guys who seemed like good partners. I recognized both of them from our local running scene and knew they both had marathon PRs in the mid 2:30s.
This was the best part of the race for me. In my four years of running I had never experienced this: real racing, on a course with something at stake, against people around my ability. We three cruised along, weighing our remaining strength and wondering what our rivals were capable of, listening to the cheers of the crowd and our own breathing. I hope never forget this feeling.
This brought on another first for me. I had to think of something to do if it came down to the wire. Should I make like Farah and try to surge ahead in the final 800? Should I hit it with 5k to go and try to hang on? Should I split the difference and make a move heading into the last mile? It was exciting to think about these things–or to try to, anyway. Fatigue was beginning to dull my mind a bit.
Lucky for me, my chess-playing abilities didn’t enter into the equation. Around 13k–which is also when I saw a dude running the full marathon in a Batman costume–I looked down at my watch and saw that it read 3:28/km. We were slowing down.
I pushed a bit, hoping I wouldn’t spark an 8k dash for the finish. I hit the next two k in 3:24 and 3:25. My two rivals mostly hung on. I didn’t look behind me, but I could hear their watches beep every kilometre, and the crowd call out their names. My lead couldn’t have been more than a hundred metres.
With 5k to go, where I had planned to hit the jets if we were still bunched up, I found my jets weren’t much in the mood for being hit. I hung on, feeling a bit like a hunted animal, wondering when I would be passed. The half marathon course overlaped the 10k course at this point, so the road became thick with other runners and I lost track of my pursuers.
But at 2k to go, I was still in the lead. There is a long bridge in Edmonton called the High Level that I often run over, including when I’ve got about 2k to go on medium-long and long runs. I try to push it when I’m on it, and I tried to pretend I was on the High Level at this point.
It worked. I managed a surge or two to ward off a sprint finish, crossing the line 15 seconds ahead of my pursuers.
Other than a 1:15 finish, I’d hoped to land somewhere in the top 10 of this race. The half marathon is usually the marquee event on the local running calendar, but I still thought a 1:14 or so would put me somewhere around sixth.
But this turned out to be a scorching field. The winner clocked 1:03:37. Second place was 1:03:58, and third was 1:04:16. A guy named Kip Kangogo who is probably the strongest runner in the province and who has a legitimate shot at making the Canadian team for Rio 2016, and who I thought was the odds-on favorite to win, finished fourth in 1:05:21.
A bit of googling revealed the top two dudes as sub-2:15 marathoners. Ian Burrell, who was second, finished third at the US Half Marathon Championships last year.
So I’m probably more proud of 9th place than I have any right to be. Actually, my only real negative from the whole experience is that I didn’t get to see the elite field go by because of the course route. Those dudes are on a whole other plane, and it would have been great to see them in battle against one another.
And now, of course, I’m chomping at the bit to get to Portland.
You're a beast. Thanks for the write-up. It was a treat to read and I cheered for you from start to finish. Can't wait for your marathon. It's completely mind-boggling for me that you can run so incredibly fast, finish 9th and that the elites are still 30secs/km fast than you are.
At the risk of tooting my own horn to the point of exhaustion, I'm feeling very strong right now. I just split 10k in under 34 minutes for the second time ever, and I did it as part of an LT workout towards the end of a pretty challenging week of training.
(Running the workout on a superfast track probably had something to do with it. Dat polyurethane!)
On August 31 2014 14:48 Bonham wrote: At the risk of tooting my own horn to the point of exhaustion, I'm feeling very strong right now. I just split 10k in under 34 minutes for the second time ever, and I did it as part of an LT workout towards the end of a pretty challenging week of training.
(Running the workout on a superfast track probably had something to do with it. Dat polyurethane!)
Good stuff! Just be careful not to be too sharp at the shorter distances too close to the marathon. Though from your training that doesn't look like it should be a problem.
So August comes to an end, looks like I ran 131.2 miles according to Strava but I know I did a couple treadmill runs that I never logged on there so I think my total for the month was more like 140-145 range.
I'm happy with that mileage, although my paces have not been improving as much as I'd like. I guess it's part of the problem with having to train for a marathon, I really only have 1-2 days a week max where I feel I can really do any sort of legitimate speed work, otherwise my legs just feel completely trashed on weekend long runs. Overall I should still be on track to easily achieve my goal, I've set a (probably rather modest) marathon goal of 3:45 which would still destroy my time from last year. I think I might end up being closer to 3:30 shape because I've run some of my long runs in 8:30 or under pace in much hotter/humid conditions than race day.
September will be the most important month of training for me, I've built the base, now it's time to refine the pace. I might set a new goal time depending on what kind of paces I find myself running my long runs in September. Especially if I get a couple cooler morning/more race like conditions later in the month.
On September 01 2014 05:31 Z-BosoN wrote: @Bonham, awesome race report, really nice read!
I have a small question, how does dieting before long and exhausting runs go? Do you take in anything during the race?
Are we talking about a race or a training run? You don't need any food during a 2 hour long training run. Just eat what you normally eat, make sure that you're hydrated and have pooped enough. Races are quite similar. If you have done a couple of them you can pretty much rely on your routine. Hydrated post-run and consume good amounts of proteins (4:1 carb:protein ratio is recommended) If you run longer than 2 hours you might want to eat something but my advice is anecdotal and you should do what feels best for you I think. I ate during my very long training runs when I was preparing for a 31k race in the spring mostly because I wanted to practice eating while running.
So August comes to an end, looks like I ran 131.2 miles according to Strava but I know I did a couple treadmill runs that I never logged on there so I think my total for the month was more like 140-145 range.
I'm happy with that mileage, although my paces have not been improving as much as I'd like. I guess it's part of the problem with having to train for a marathon, I really only have 1-2 days a week max where I feel I can really do any sort of legitimate speed work, otherwise my legs just feel completely trashed on weekend long runs. Overall I should still be on track to easily achieve my goal, I've set a (probably rather modest) marathon goal of 3:45 which would still destroy my time from last year. I think I might end up being closer to 3:30 shape because I've run some of my long runs in 8:30 or under pace in much hotter/humid conditions than race day.
September will be the most important month of training for me, I've built the base, now it's time to refine the pace. I might set a new goal time depending on what kind of paces I find myself running my long runs in September. Especially if I get a couple cooler morning/more race like conditions later in the month.
Can't wait four your race. All the marathon training will pay off early next season if you want to focus on the shorter distances.
On September 01 2014 05:31 Z-BosoN wrote: I have a small question, how does dieting before long and exhausting runs go? Do you take in anything during the race?
I generally struggle with managing my stomach–more so than most runners, I imagine, but for what it's worth here's how I manage it:
I very seldom eat anything before a morning run, including any race below a marathon in length. For a training run over 30k, I carry gummy bears in a small plastic bag in my shorts. I started doing this because I'm running the Portland marathon and that's what will be at the food stations. I'm trying to train my body to get used to eating the bears while running, and I must say so far it's worked pretty well.
I try to eat around 10 gummy bears per hour of running on a long run, but I'm not always able to. I find I really have to force myself to eat when running. My body really doesn't want to do it, though, as I say, it's gotten better as I've practiced.
Finally, a word on the GI system: I find jogging seems to act as a bit of a laxative quite often. On easy runs, I often feel quite uncomfortable in the last couple k. (A few disastrous times I've had to poop in the woods, which I really hate.) Oddly, though, I find faster running doesn't seem to have the same effect, so it's less of a concern for me in races and workouts.
On long runs and longer races, I try to get up in time to use the washroom before I need to leave for the start line. (I like to do this in my apartment or hotel, since public bathrooms at race sites invariably have huge lineups.)
I'm happy with that mileage, although my paces have not been improving as much as I'd like. I guess it's part of the problem with having to train for a marathon, I really only have 1-2 days a week max where I feel I can really do any sort of legitimate speed work, otherwise my legs just feel completely trashed on weekend long runs. Overall I should still be on track to easily achieve my goal, I've set a (probably rather modest) marathon goal of 3:45 which would still destroy my time from last year. I think I might end up being closer to 3:30 shape because I've run some of my long runs in 8:30 or under pace in much hotter/humid conditions than race day.
Congrats on a sweet week of training! I'm glad to hear it's going well. When is your race?
Speed work once or twice a week is a pretty typical max load for running training. Throw in a long run and a bunch of recovery/easy miles and you're looking at a great week of training. I strongly advise against doing it more than twice a week as your body won't have time to recover and you might actually slow yourself down.
Note that strides (short, smooth sprints at the end of an easy run) don't fall into this category. They're also super fun!
I'm happy with that mileage, although my paces have not been improving as much as I'd like. I guess it's part of the problem with having to train for a marathon, I really only have 1-2 days a week max where I feel I can really do any sort of legitimate speed work, otherwise my legs just feel completely trashed on weekend long runs. Overall I should still be on track to easily achieve my goal, I've set a (probably rather modest) marathon goal of 3:45 which would still destroy my time from last year. I think I might end up being closer to 3:30 shape because I've run some of my long runs in 8:30 or under pace in much hotter/humid conditions than race day.
Congrats on a sweet week of training! I'm glad to hear it's going well. When is your race?
Speed work once or twice a week is a pretty typical max load for running training. Throw in a long run and a bunch of recovery/easy miles and you're looking at a great week of training. I strongly advise against doing it more than twice a week as your body won't have time to recover and you might actually slow yourself down.
Note that strides (short, smooth sprints at the end of an easy run) don't fall into this category. They're also super fun!
I'm running the Marine Corps Marathon here in DC on Oct 26th. Thanks for the advice, I definitely have a pretty good weekly routine going right now. Tuesdays and Thursdays are my faster days generally with regular runs on Monday/Wednesdays and long runs on Saturday. hoping to get my weekly mileage up to 50-60mpw most weeks this month.
Getting close guys, just a few weeks before I finally get to switch back into primary running focus . While I feel pretty fit, I definitely feel a bit sluggish right now on anything but easier days, which does make a level of sense as I've done precious little running at faster than even 7:00 pace.
I'm largely pleased with how my diet has been, as I've been a little more diligent about curbing the amount of junk food I put in. I really want to commit to removing soda from the diet this month, as I tend to average at least 1 per day, if not more. And, while soda may be delicious it's also fucking terrible for you, and always gets me to include extra junk food to pair with the soda. Weight hasn't changed a ton, but I'm probably done a few pounds and more in the lower-mid 150s as opposed to upper mid. Going to take some some serious focus to drop down 15lbs, that part is 10x harder for me than doing the training.
September Goals:
- approx 200 miles + supplementary cycling/elliptical for 10-15 hr/wk total - transition into faster running via some fartleks, tempos, and hill repeats; - easy days EASY, I think I've been falling into the trap of easy days nudging closer to moderate than to truly being easy - Diet - this guy is king, I think I've got a good chance to run low 17s if I get down to a proper race weight, and it's important for me as it feels like a bit of a farce to say I'm putting in effort to be a strong runner...and then simultaneously ignore what I'm putting into myself and show up to races 15+ lbs heavy.
If I'm feeling up to it, I may race once in Sep just for a hard effort/fitness check, but probably won't. Goal races will be in Nov/Early Dec.
On September 02 2014 01:34 Yrr wrote: It's so strange to read these numbers. Today I did my first sub 40min at 6 km distance.
Congrats! You only break these barriers once. Savor your improving strength!
On September 02 2014 12:31 L_Master wrote: Getting close guys, just a few weeks before I finally get to switch back into primary running focus
I've been wondering why you've been cycling so much on Strava. I forgot about the injury/rehab thing I guess. It's good to hear things are progressing well for you. Fifteen hours of training a week, on top of other commitments, is pretty ambitious.
And FWIW, when I was doing my bachelor's degree and playing university basketball, I was about 160-165lbs. (I'm 6'2.) When I stopped playing ball, I became a vegetarian and dropped 10 pounds in about two or three months. I don't want to get preachy, but if you're looking to lose weight, I think cutting out meat might be a really good move.
What's winter running in your neck of the woods like?
On September 02 2014 12:31 L_Master wrote: Getting close guys, just a few weeks before I finally get to switch back into primary running focus
I've been wondering why you've been cycling so much on Strava. I forgot about the injury/rehab thing I guess. It's good to hear things are progressing well for you. Fifteen hours of training a week, on top of other commitments, is pretty ambitious.
Agreed on the 15 hours. It is alot, and honestly might be a little too much once the focus shifts back to running. 10 hours should still keep me plenty fit, and I'll probably trend toward that as I get into the harder, faster stuff in Oct/Nov.
Main reason for the cycling was two fold:
1) Seemed like a decent way to get in a strong aerobic base without risky running 70+ mpw on a potential injury 2) Few friends wanted to do a ride from Fort Collins to Monument, which is about 220-240km (140+ mile), and I needed cycling if for no other reason than to save my ass (literally). Ended up having a ton of fun with it, and for the time being would say I'm noticably stronger there than running...so I decided to put emphasis on it for summer base building just to see how much I could improve. Ride looks like it might not happen till Spring now...so back to running fun, not to mention it gets cold here
And FWIW, when I was doing my bachelor's degree and playing university basketball, I was about 160-165lbs. (I'm 6'2.) When I stopped playing ball, I became a vegetarian and dropped 10 pounds in about two or three months. I don't want to get preachy, but if you're looking to lose weight, I think cutting out meat might be a really good move.
I keep that in mind, and it will be something to play around with and see how I feel, especially if I don't feel like cutting out the junk food helps. I eat a pretty varied healthy diet overall (lots of fruits, veggies, etc.)...with the glaring exception that probably 20+% of my daily calories or more comes from pure shit (soda, chips, cookies, etc.). [/QUOTE]
Honestly, the cutting the junk food part out is going to be hard as hell. It's a legitimate addiction, and I've essentially been talking about getting lean for 4 years now.
As for the weight thing, even 6'2" 160 sounds great to where I am! My current lower 150s is akin to a 180lb at your height. Not really fat, but it's way too much weight for good running performance (or superlative climbing in cycling)
What's winter running in your neck of the woods like?
This is the one downside to peaking for winter racing, in that Colorado does get some snow and can be cold(ish). But you also get a good number of days in the 50s and the snow melts fast. I'm prepared to do some workouts on the mill, but hopefully I can still do most of them outside.
On September 02 2014 13:41 L_Master wrote: This is the one downside to peaking for winter racing, in that Colorado does get some snow and can be cold(ish). But you also get a good number of days in the 50s and the snow melts fast. I'm prepared to do some workouts on the mill, but hopefully I can still do most of them outside.
That sounds pretty sweet compared with what we deal with here. It's basically a frozen, dark wasteland for five months. I stump around for a "general aerobic" run each day, with a longer one on the weekend, but you can't really go that fast and there's no way to do workouts.
I'm considering doing some dreadmill work this winter to maintain my training momentum a bit better than I have in the past, actually. Probably once or twice a week. Can you point me toward any good resources on treadmill training for serious runners? Never really done it before, but I know people do.
Can you point me toward any good resources on treadmill training for serious runners? Never really done it before, but I know people do.
I don't think it really gets too fancy. Just do the same workouts outside as you would inside. Treadmills can be inaccurate though so if you go inside and tempo at 5:30 and it feels easy as hell you probably just have a miscalibrated mill, so just increase the speed.
Some people like setting the treadmill to 1-1.5 gradient to compensate for lack of wind resistance, personal choice. On longer stuff like tempos I think the lack of cooling rather balances out with the lack of wind resistance, but tbh that (wind resistance) only really starts to be relevant at all when you start getting into 5:xx paces. I personally would just rather leave it at 0 and run a little faster, I like always working at a quicker pace as a big part of running is being economical at pace.
I'm kind of astounded by this. Farah at the European championships did not look like someone who could threaten to break an hour in the half. It's amazing what difference a few weeks can make. And what happened to my man Bekele?
EDIT: After reading that story, it seems like I've confused Bekele the greater with his own younger brother. Another display of my glittering intelligence!
Great run for Farah, love the guy glad to see him secure a win, solid time too, 60 flat is so legit. Good to see especially with some of his recent issues. I remember he had some struggles fairly recently, fell or something in NYC half marathon I think and had some issue/passed off after another (or maybe that was the same event)
I'm kind of astounded by this. Farah at the European championships did not look like someone who could threaten to break an hour in the half. It's amazing what difference a few weeks can make. And what happened to my man Bekele?
EDIT: After reading that story, it seems like I've confused Bekele the greater with his own younger brother. Another display of my glittering intelligence!
Guy just ran 8:07, so I expected him to run decently here which he would. 60 is solid, but not spectacular at the elite level in my opinion.
So, small update.. managed to run 10km this weekend, which for me is new. The best part is that my knees are not as sore as before, so hopefully if they behave I can finally start practicing more often. Tomorrow I'm going to try to go for another 5km run and see how that works.
So as I posted a few pages back, I need to get to 25k by mid-october. Are there any recommendations for me to start upping my distance? Should I run 5k more often or 10k less often?
On September 09 2014 00:16 Z-BosoN wrote: So, small update.. managed to run 10km this weekend, which for me is new. The best part is that my knees are not as sore as before, so hopefully if they behave I can finally start practicing more often. Tomorrow I'm going to try to go for another 5km run and see how that works.
So as I posted a few pages back, I need to get to 25k by mid-october. Are there any recommendations for me to start upping my distance? Should I run 5k more often or 10k less often?
Good job. Keep listening to your body.
General rule of thumb is to increase your weekly distance by not more than 10% and try to have a "down week" every ~4 weeks where you reduce your distance a little to give your body time to regenerate and adjust to the increased volume. L_Master gives really sound advice on that matter, let's hope he answeres your call. I think most people recommend to start adding more running days before you increase the distance of your runs until you're at 5-6 running days a week. Having one longer run in your schedule is a great idea and you should treat it as your most important run imo.
Dunno what happened to L_Master. He's still cycling like a fiend. Maybe the dark disciples of Lance Armstrong have brainwashed him into joining their ranks or something.
On September 10 2014 13:14 Bonham wrote: Don_Julio, dishin' dat pro advice!
Dunno what happened to L_Master. He's still cycling like a fiend. Maybe the dark disciples of Lance Armstrong have brainwashed him into joining their ranks or something.
Hehe, even though I'm clearly a better cyclist than runner at the moment, it still doesn't compare (well, except for descending). Cycling is fun, but it just doesn't have that same visceral quality that running does, and a good ride just doesn't compare. When you are on in cycling you're just pushing harder on the pedals, it doesn't feel any different. A good run on the other hand...
Is unrivaled. Everything feels good. The lightness of the feet skimming the ground, the effortless strides eating up distance, that feeling of heart, legs and lungs in concert. You get that in running, but I don't feel that while cycling.
Running races make more sense to me too, and are significantly less dangerous. In cycling you have the risk of crashes, high speeds, and the weird oddity that (in running equivalents) an 18:30 caliber cyclist and crush a 15:30 caliber cyclist. That's still weird to me.
On September 10 2014 13:23 L_Master wrote: Is unrivaled. Everything feels good. The lightness of the feet skimming the ground, the effortless strides eating up distance, that feeling of heart, legs and lungs in concert. You get that in running, but I don't feel that while cycling.
To someone like me this seems to ridiculous lol...
On September 10 2014 13:23 L_Master wrote: Is unrivaled. Everything feels good. The lightness of the feet skimming the ground, the effortless strides eating up distance, that feeling of heart, legs and lungs in concert. You get that in running, but I don't feel that while cycling.
To someone like me this seems to ridiculous lol...
Aw, you guys have just never enjoyed a nice runner's high before. You've got it still to come!
On September 10 2014 13:23 L_Master wrote: Running races make more sense to me too, and are significantly less dangerous. In cycling you have the risk of crashes, high speeds, and the weird oddity that (in running equivalents) an 18:30 caliber cyclist and crush a 15:30 caliber cyclist. That's still weird to me.
How does an 18:30 guy beat a 15:30 guy? Are you talking about the aerodynamic shenanigans afforded by the peloton or something else?
Dunno much about the running high, I just know that I appreciate it when my first mile grumpiness stops. After that, it's clear sailing until I get to my current limit of about 8-9 miles.
Got a 10k race this weekend. Aiming for 42:xx to beat my race earlier this summer at 44:xx. It hurts to think about how much training it takes to shave 2 mins off my 10k time. Then again I suppose sprinters slave away for years trying to shave off milliseconds - it could be worse.
On September 10 2014 13:23 L_Master wrote: Running races make more sense to me too, and are significantly less dangerous. In cycling you have the risk of crashes, high speeds, and the weird oddity that (in running equivalents) an 18:30 caliber cyclist and crush a 15:30 caliber cyclist. That's still weird to me.
How does an 18:30 guy beat a 15:30 guy? Are you talking about the aerodynamic shenanigans afforded by the peloton or something else?
Yea basically. It's like track racing but on steroids. In a track race it's pretty hard to win if you lead and push the pace the entire way. You do spend a little more energy being out in front both mentally and not getting shelter, and at elite level that difference obviously matters and is why we get so many diamond league jogfests.
In cycling though, the drafting benefits are significantly greater. Good shelter can provide a 30-40% reduction in necessary wattage. That's like running 7:00 effort and being able to run with guys on pace for 12:55 5k.
Now, obviously it takes a specific type of guy to take advantage of that. Even if I got to race at 7:00 pace and be at the bell with the diamond league elite I would still get smashed by 4-6 seconds. But if I was an 18:30 guy with 50 second speed...we'll I'd be competitive to win DL events, and certainly would have no trouble smashing 15:30 guys, as most have no where near 50 second closing ability.
Now that all starts to change when you get to hill climbs or to a lesser extent hilly road races. At that point, the drafting benefits decrease a bunch, and it ends up being much more similar to a running race in that pure fitness wins. For crits (sort of the bike equivalent of a track race) and flatter road races, it's much more about efficient tactics and being able to put out 10-20 seconds at somewhere between 1100-1600W depending on the level of racing you are at.
One other thing about cycling though is that there are two types of "pure fitness". The first is the time trial specialist, and the second is the climbing specialist. Time trialists usually can climb ok, but not as good as pure climbers, but they are generally slightly bigger guys pushing higher wattages. On flat ground when cycling weight is completely irrelevant, which is different from running. So, in the case of flatter stuff (which time trials generally are) pure watts are more important. An 80kg rider than can push 450W for an hour will beat a 60kg rider who can push 360W for an hour. It's not quite pure watts, as your Cda (basically drag area) does tend to increase with size, but it's a subtle effect. However, once you hit the hills though, it's all about w/kg. Smaller riders generally have slightly better w/kg and thus are advantaged as the road turns up.
Personally, I haven't observed that in running, there is a slight trend in running to be bigger as the race distance gets shorter, but people of all profiles succeed at shorter races (at least 800 and up). There is no such thing as a 60 kg time trial champion in cycling though.
On September 10 2014 13:23 L_Master wrote: Is unrivaled. Everything feels good. The lightness of the feet skimming the ground, the effortless strides eating up distance, that feeling of heart, legs and lungs in concert. You get that in running, but I don't feel that while cycling.
To someone like me this seems to ridiculous lol...
Running hasn't ever been like that for me.
It takes a while. I never noticed that until I started to get fairly fit and was running a good 30-40 mpw. I forget how much you are training, but I think it's significantly less common to get that feeling if you are only running a few times a week; you just don't get in tune enough with your body to enable it to happen, and it's also possible to just not have the fitness and as such almost every run is challenging, especially if there are any hills.
On September 11 2014 04:44 caznitch wrote: Got a 10k race this weekend. Aiming for 42:xx to beat my race earlier this summer at 44:xx. It hurts to think about how much training it takes to shave 2 mins off my 10k time. Then again I suppose sprinters slave away for years trying to shave off milliseconds - it could be worse.
2 minutes in a few months is a huge improvement. If you can pull this off it means that your earlier race was terribly paced and you had a bad day or that you're still far away from plateau and we'll see a sub 40 next year. Well, good luck this weekend and make sure to report back. _______
I have a question about my half marathon trainingplan and how I can fit in a 10k race 17 days before the half. The plan is a generic one by Asics. I'm pretty sure that it's crap now but it did suit my needs perfectly (4 running days,16 weeks, no HRM required). There is no elegant option to export the plan so I made a screenshot. + Show Spoiler +
So there's a local 10k race coming up and I'd like to run it to get a feel of what I'm capable of atm (no race for two months). It's a October 2nd. My training plan schedules a "comfortable" 13,5k run for that day but more importantly a fast 18k three days later as the last big workout before the tapering phase. Asics seems to put a lot of emphasis on these fast 18k runs. What I consider right now is to race the 10k and run the 18k+ at an easy pace instead. Any opinions? Will it impact my HM performance?
PS: 1:34 is not my goal time. My actual goal is around 1:37. It's just what Asics' little app calculated after I told it that my 10k PR is 44:00. Getting close to 1:35:00 might be possible if everything works out perfectly.
So there's a local 10k race coming up and I'd like to run it to get a feel of what I'm capable of atm (no race for two months). It's a October 2nd. My training plan schedules a "comfortable" 13,5k run for that day but more importantly a fast 18k three days later as the last big workout before the tapering phase. Asics seems to put a lot of emphasis on these fast 18k runs. What I consider right now is to race the 10k and run the 18k+ at an easy pace instead. Any opinions? Will it impact my HM performance?
Well, you're racing 10k, so once you throw in WU/CD you'll be at 13.5k. No reason to take the 18k run at an easy pace, three days is more than sufficient recovery time to be ready for another workout. Just remember to actually take it easy the two days in between.
PS: 1:34 is not my goal time. My actual goal is around 1:37. It's just what Asics' little app calculated after I told it that my 10k PR is 44:00. Getting close to 1:35:00 might be possible if everything works out perfectly.
Those 18k runs, is the entire run at that quicker listed pace, and are you running them at 4:32 pace?
So there's a local 10k race coming up and I'd like to run it to get a feel of what I'm capable of atm (no race for two months). It's a October 2nd. My training plan schedules a "comfortable" 13,5k run for that day but more importantly a fast 18k three days later as the last big workout before the tapering phase. Asics seems to put a lot of emphasis on these fast 18k runs. What I consider right now is to race the 10k and run the 18k+ at an easy pace instead. Any opinions? Will it impact my HM performance?
Well, you're racing 10k, so once you throw in WU/CD you'll be at 13.5k. No reason to take the 18k run at an easy pace, three days is more than sufficient recovery time to be ready for another workout. Just remember to actually take it easy the two days in between.
PS: 1:34 is not my goal time. My actual goal is around 1:37. It's just what Asics' little app calculated after I told it that my 10k PR is 44:00. Getting close to 1:35:00 might be possible if everything works out perfectly.
Those 18k runs, is the entire run at that quicker listed pace, and are you running them at 4:32 pace?
Yes. It sais I'm supposed to run at a consistent pace out of my comfort zone. 4:32 is the optimal pace but it's not dramatic if I run slower. I just came back from a very fast 13,5k + warmup, which I finished in 1:00:00. It hurt but was manageable. It's basically another breakthrough and a huge confidence boost so I might get there eventually.
So there's a local 10k race coming up and I'd like to run it to get a feel of what I'm capable of atm (no race for two months). It's a October 2nd. My training plan schedules a "comfortable" 13,5k run for that day but more importantly a fast 18k three days later as the last big workout before the tapering phase. Asics seems to put a lot of emphasis on these fast 18k runs. What I consider right now is to race the 10k and run the 18k+ at an easy pace instead. Any opinions? Will it impact my HM performance?
Well, you're racing 10k, so once you throw in WU/CD you'll be at 13.5k. No reason to take the 18k run at an easy pace, three days is more than sufficient recovery time to be ready for another workout. Just remember to actually take it easy the two days in between.
Thanks. That sounds reasonable.
PS: 1:34 is not my goal time. My actual goal is around 1:37. It's just what Asics' little app calculated after I told it that my 10k PR is 44:00. Getting close to 1:35:00 might be possible if everything works out perfectly.
Those 18k runs, is the entire run at that quicker listed pace, and are you running them at 4:32 pace?
Yes. It sais I'm supposed to run at a consistent pace out of my comfort zone. 4:32 is the optimal pace but it's not dramatic if I run slower. I just came back from a very fast 13,5k + warmup, which I finished in 1:00:00. It hurt but was manageable. It's basically another breakthrough and a huge confidence boost so I might get there eventually.
I have no advice to give but please let me know how you found your training plan after you run your HM. I'll be looking for a new one soon (those requested fast paces defs seem too high for me though).
Yar! So, living in the hellhole that is Calgary, my race was cancelled due to a snow storm. The heavy snow ripped down so many trees and branches that the park slated for the course was closed.
I think I may just run a 10k at race pace by myself and see what happens.
Next 10k I can run is in Nov. so it looks like I can just restart the 10week program I was using from week one.
So there's a local 10k race coming up and I'd like to run it to get a feel of what I'm capable of atm (no race for two months). It's a October 2nd. My training plan schedules a "comfortable" 13,5k run for that day but more importantly a fast 18k three days later as the last big workout before the tapering phase. Asics seems to put a lot of emphasis on these fast 18k runs. What I consider right now is to race the 10k and run the 18k+ at an easy pace instead. Any opinions? Will it impact my HM performance?
Well, you're racing 10k, so once you throw in WU/CD you'll be at 13.5k. No reason to take the 18k run at an easy pace, three days is more than sufficient recovery time to be ready for another workout. Just remember to actually take it easy the two days in between.
Thanks. That sounds reasonable.
PS: 1:34 is not my goal time. My actual goal is around 1:37. It's just what Asics' little app calculated after I told it that my 10k PR is 44:00. Getting close to 1:35:00 might be possible if everything works out perfectly.
Those 18k runs, is the entire run at that quicker listed pace, and are you running them at 4:32 pace?
Yes. It sais I'm supposed to run at a consistent pace out of my comfort zone. 4:32 is the optimal pace but it's not dramatic if I run slower. I just came back from a very fast 13,5k + warmup, which I finished in 1:00:00. It hurt but was manageable. It's basically another breakthrough and a huge confidence boost so I might get there eventually.
If you can run 4:32 for 18k you can sure as heck run better than 1:35. I'd be thinking 1:32 give or take a couple minutes based on that. Heck 3x5km @ HMP is considered to be a very challenging workout. 18k straight at HMP...well like I said if you can run 18k at "HMP" in training...that isn't HMP.
So there's a local 10k race coming up and I'd like to run it to get a feel of what I'm capable of atm (no race for two months). It's a October 2nd. My training plan schedules a "comfortable" 13,5k run for that day but more importantly a fast 18k three days later as the last big workout before the tapering phase. Asics seems to put a lot of emphasis on these fast 18k runs. What I consider right now is to race the 10k and run the 18k+ at an easy pace instead. Any opinions? Will it impact my HM performance?
Well, you're racing 10k, so once you throw in WU/CD you'll be at 13.5k. No reason to take the 18k run at an easy pace, three days is more than sufficient recovery time to be ready for another workout. Just remember to actually take it easy the two days in between.
Thanks. That sounds reasonable.
PS: 1:34 is not my goal time. My actual goal is around 1:37. It's just what Asics' little app calculated after I told it that my 10k PR is 44:00. Getting close to 1:35:00 might be possible if everything works out perfectly.
Those 18k runs, is the entire run at that quicker listed pace, and are you running them at 4:32 pace?
Yes. It sais I'm supposed to run at a consistent pace out of my comfort zone. 4:32 is the optimal pace but it's not dramatic if I run slower. I just came back from a very fast 13,5k + warmup, which I finished in 1:00:00. It hurt but was manageable. It's basically another breakthrough and a huge confidence boost so I might get there eventually.
I have no advice to give but please let me know how you found your training plan after you run your HM. I'll be looking for a new one soon (those requested fast paces defs seem too high for me though).
http://myasics.us/my - click on Get Started. As I said the plan is far from ideal. I chose it because it fitted my weekly mileage and running days. There is no option if you want to run more than 4 days which you should. (I'm going to move up to 5-6 days over the winter.)
On September 12 2014 13:05 caznitch wrote: Yar! So, living in the hellhole that is Calgary, my race was cancelled due to a snow storm. The heavy snow ripped down so many trees and branches that the park slated for the course was closed.
I think I may just run a 10k at race pace by myself and see what happens.
Next 10k I can run is in Nov. so it looks like I can just restart the 10week program I was using from week one.
Shit. Snow storms in september should be forbidden. I's be so mad.
So there's a local 10k race coming up and I'd like to run it to get a feel of what I'm capable of atm (no race for two months). It's a October 2nd. My training plan schedules a "comfortable" 13,5k run for that day but more importantly a fast 18k three days later as the last big workout before the tapering phase. Asics seems to put a lot of emphasis on these fast 18k runs. What I consider right now is to race the 10k and run the 18k+ at an easy pace instead. Any opinions? Will it impact my HM performance?
Well, you're racing 10k, so once you throw in WU/CD you'll be at 13.5k. No reason to take the 18k run at an easy pace, three days is more than sufficient recovery time to be ready for another workout. Just remember to actually take it easy the two days in between.
Thanks. That sounds reasonable.
PS: 1:34 is not my goal time. My actual goal is around 1:37. It's just what Asics' little app calculated after I told it that my 10k PR is 44:00. Getting close to 1:35:00 might be possible if everything works out perfectly.
Those 18k runs, is the entire run at that quicker listed pace, and are you running them at 4:32 pace?
Yes. It sais I'm supposed to run at a consistent pace out of my comfort zone. 4:32 is the optimal pace but it's not dramatic if I run slower. I just came back from a very fast 13,5k + warmup, which I finished in 1:00:00. It hurt but was manageable. It's basically another breakthrough and a huge confidence boost so I might get there eventually.
If you can run 4:32 for 18k you can sure as heck run better than 1:35. I'd be thinking 1:32 give or take a couple minutes based on that. Heck 3x5km @ HMP is considered to be a very challenging workout. 18k straight at HMP...well like I said if you can run 18k at "HMP" in training...that isn't HMP.
I haven't done any of the fast 18ks yet so we'll see how it works out. My mood switched from worried if I can meet my goals to excitement for the race over the last week. I'm already excited and the race is 5 weeks away ...
Well guys, I'm not sure what to make of this. I was hoping I could post some information and get you guys to point out anything I am doing wrong. I apologize for any incoherent rambling.
A little background, I was never a distance runner as a kid, and in high school/university years I was running 3 miles at a modest 7 min/mile pace, with basically no training (I'd come home from work and run 3 miles in 21 minutes, then be done with it, 2-3 times a week.
Fast forward 7 years later, I'm 27 and have a half marathon under my belt (Ran May 2014, 1:44 - 8 min/mile pace) and at 10K PR of 45 on a treadmill. I really want to be able to do a sub-40 10K, and have been consistently running, etc over the past several months since my half marathon.
I ran a crappy 6M race in 48 minutes back at the beginning of August with little training before hand, and am running another 10K October 19th.
Today I ran a 5K at the track in 21:26 (mile splits of splits of 6:53, 6:54, 6:48, 51 more seconds to go half a lap). I was really looking for the 19:11, but expected this would probably happen. I am feeling kinda of dejected because I have been running longer mileages over the past 6-7 weeks following this training program: plan (just finished up week 7).
Basically I feel like I am seeing no results. I can consistently do 880 repeats in 3 min. My longer runs are run at an 8 min pace, and I've calculated I have about VO2 of about 44-46 (both numbers feel paltry). Is that schedule any good? I used a similar one on that site for my half marathon and while I missed their goal defined by the schedule by 5 minutes, I felt good about it being my first big race.
I just finished Advanced Marathoning (highly educational), and was wondering if next time I should grab a schedule from their book, and reduce it? Each training plan the detail is for marathoners, but could I scale it down for a 10K? If so, would I do a quarter of each workout, or maybe half?
Sorry for rambling - I feel at a loss for my non-improvements. Maybe I was just tired still and will do better once I've tapered. I made a new goal of 10K in 42, but after today I don't even know if that is doable
Well guys, I'm not sure what to make of this. I was hoping I could post some information and get you guys to point out anything I am doing wrong. I apologize for any incoherent rambling.
A little background, I was never a distance runner as a kid, and in high school/university years I was running 3 miles at a modest 7 min/mile pace, with basically no training (I'd come home from work and run 3 miles in 21 minutes, then be done with it, 2-3 times a week.
Fast forward 7 years later, I'm 27 and have a half marathon under my belt (Ran May 2014, 1:44 - 8 min/mile pace) and at 10K PR of 45 on a treadmill. I really want to be able to do a sub-40 10K, and have been consistently running, etc over the past several months since my half marathon.
I ran a crappy 6M race in 48 minutes back at the beginning of August with little training before hand, and am running another 10K October 19th.
Today I ran a 5K at the track in 21:26 (mile splits of splits of 6:53, 6:54, 6:48, 51 more seconds to go half a lap). I was really looking for the 19:11, but expected this would probably happen. I am feeling kinda of dejected because I have been running longer mileages over the past 6-7 weeks following this training program: plan (just finished up week 7). + Show Spoiler +
Basically I feel like I am seeing no results. I can consistently do 880 repeats in 3 min. My longer runs are run at an 8 min pace, and I've calculated I have about VO2 of about 44-46 (both numbers feel paltry). Is that schedule any good? I used a similar one on that site for my half marathon and while I missed their goal defined by the schedule by 5 minutes, I felt good about it being my first big race.
I just finished Advanced Marathoning (highly educational), and was wondering if next time I should grab a schedule from their book, and reduce it? Each training plan the detail is for marathoners, but could I scale it down for a 10K? If so, would I do a quarter of each workout, or maybe half?
Sorry for rambling - I feel at a loss for my non-improvements. Maybe I was just tired still and will do better once I've tapered. I made a new goal of 10K in 42, but after today I don't even know if that is doable
Thanks for any advice you could lend!
I think you're still on track for a good time with your 10K, and that SUB-42 IS DOABLE AND THAT YOU WILL SURPRISE YOURSELF. A single track workout during what is close to the "peak" of your training schedule is simply going to be disappointing, unless your training hasn't been pushing your ability enough. Your body is probably tired, there may be other factors like diet/dehydration/recovery contributing to a single slower-than-expected 5k. Plus, unless you were running it with someone you won't have had the push/pull of truly "racing." Your training plan includes a bit of taper in the last two weeks, and it's going to feel great.
Good luck, and keep us informed. Sleep well, eat well, stretch and massage muscles when you can. Enjoy how light and quick the racing flats will feel on the day, don't worry about it until then.
running protip: don't make terrible decisions the night before you're supposed to run a 20 mile marathon training run lol!
I got through it but I was dead the last few miles. One more 22 miler in a couple weeks and then I should be all set. I'm going to approach the 22 miler exactly how I'll approach race morning, so hopefully I'll run and feel out a more accurate time.
My marathon is October 26th and my last real long run (22 miler) is going to be Oct 4th. I've heard that most of what you do 2-3 weeks before can hurt more than it can help in terms of recovery, so I'm going to try to stick to that with my last serious long effort just over 3 weeks before the race.
Planning on shorter more race pace specific running 2-3 weeks out with the taper beginning about 2 weeks out.
That sounds pretty smart to me. I myself am due for 34k tomorrow morning, which will be my last run over 30 until the race on October 5.
Also, if this is your first time doing a taper, know that the mental side of things is more than half the battle. Maintain intensity while lowering volume in your training, and do whatever you can to ward off insanity.
Not quite running related....but still a cool experience. Rode to the top of Pikes Peak today. 19 miles of 6.8% grade, with a good 8 miles towards the top over 10%. Made it in 2:31 for 7.5 mph average speed.
Probably the hardest thing I've ever done physically, definitely harder than running up the mountain. Though my gearing may have played a roll as 34-27 is my lowest gear, which makes for some serious grinding. It's like doing leg presses all the way up the mountain. Really was battling with myself not to quit in those last 2 miles where it ramps up to 13% or so at 13000'.
Pissssseeed at strava/phone though. Started the recording and got to the top with 2:31 on the clock, but the display read 0 miles and 0 mph average speed. Seems the GPS or something failed, despite having a signal according to the app. Guess that means I'll just have to do it again sometime
Pretty psyched to get back to running though, hopefully I'll be reasonably fit as I've maintained decent mileage over the summer and obviously have supplemented with an extra 8-12 hours of cycling per week. One more week left of heavy cycling because the Y where I work is having a competition between branches for most miles ridden, and I figured throwing up 400-500 miles over 2 weeks should get the job done. Then back to runnniingggg!!!!
So I got into running again about a month and a half ago, after a year of lifting. Prior to that, I was a rower for four years, and during runs in practice I would consistently do really well. I ran a half marathon (on my own, not an official event) during this time and I was pretty proud of it considering I hadn't fully immersed myself into running. Now that I've bulked up for a bit I've decided I get more satisfaction out of running/cycling so I've gone back to that. The only problem is whenever I run I get some pretty serious pain on the insides of my lower legs/ankles. The longer I go, the more they hurt, and the longer the pain lasts after the run. I'm basically posting this because I'd like to know what the cause is, and a lot of you seem really knowledgable and may be able to help. It's kind of frustrating because I've gotten back to the point where I feel good cardio-wise and muscularly, but the pain in my legs is what stops me more often than not. One theory is that I've gained a decent amount of weight over the past year (mostly muscle) without conditioning my legs to support it. Not really sure, but would love to hear your take on it. Thanks in advance
Pissssseeed at strava/phone though. Started the recording and got to the top with 2:31 on the clock, but the display read 0 miles and 0 mph average speed. Seems the GPS or something failed, despite having a signal according to the app. Guess that means I'll just have to do it again sometime
Oh, man, that would drive me bonkers. It's bad enough when Strava doesn't like a GPS file from a normal training run. If it dropped a race or big achievement like that for me, it would be super annoying. If a man bicycles up a mountain and can't prove it on the Internet, does he really exist?
Glad to hear you're coming back to us soon!
On September 15 2014 08:54 Yorkie wrote: The only problem is whenever I run I get some pretty serious pain on the insides of my lower legs/ankles. The longer I go, the more they hurt, and the longer the pain lasts after the run.
I have no expertise in this beyond my own experience, but I'd say that if it hurts more the more you run, you should seek medical attention. I often get niggling pains in various parts of my body in training, but they almost always go away once I get warmed up. If something is directly insulted by running, I think you cross-train, get physio, and lay off running for a bit.
Can you still cycle? Have you tried elliptical trainers?
If a man bicycles up a mountain and can't prove it on the Internet, does he really exist?
A valid question. That one will have to wait for next year for an answer though
Not sure what caused it, either I did something to my phone that I didn't know about or high altitude caused problems (apparently that can happen), but in case of the latter I'd have thought I'd at least have some data...
I have a question regarding Strava too. On my last run I took two small breaks to cross a street and parking areas. So I put Strava on hold for that time and started the clock again afterwards. When I checked the results afterwards it obviously didnt count the time I needed to cross the car dominated area but it did count the distance. Strava tells me I did that distance in 50sec/km which is a little bit off^^ Is Strava capable of taking breaks in space or only in time?
On September 15 2014 19:01 Yrr wrote: I have a question regarding Strava too. On my last run I took two small breaks to cross a street and parking areas. So I put Strava on hold for that time and started the clock again afterwards. When I checked the results afterwards it obviously didnt count the time I needed to cross the car dominated area but it did count the distance. Strava tells me I did that distance in 50sec/km which is a little bit off^^ Is Strava capable of taking breaks in space or only in time?
Afaik that quirk isn't something you can change about strava. If you pause and then go somewhere else it will always give you an instantaneous straight line warp from pause location to start location.
On September 15 2014 08:54 Yorkie wrote: The only problem is whenever I run I get some pretty serious pain on the insides of my lower legs/ankles. The longer I go, the more they hurt, and the longer the pain lasts after the run.
Well, it sounds like shin splint (look that up and see if it fits @Yorkie). It's not a serious problem if it doesn't get too bad. It's a normal issue for beginners afaik. I had the same and it basically fixed itself after a while of continous and careful running. Limit your pace and your distance so that it doesn't get worse while running and be patient. It took me about half a year of running to get rid of it and it hasn't come back since. Listen to your body. Take a break from running if it gets worse and only slowly build up mileage again. I agree with Bonham that if the pain is too much you should see a doctor. If you force yourself to run through shin splints it might get a cronic injury (happened to my cousin as a teenager when he coach tried to make her into an 800m elite runner, she can't run at all anymore even 5 years later). Posting how much and how often you have run over the last weeks might help figuring out if you're doing too much and how you should adapt your training. You're probably running too much because you still think that you're as good a runner as you were back when you ran your half.
Thanks for the answers Bonham and Don Julio. I was thinking it was probably shin splints. I've been running about 20 miles a week for the last few weeks. Trying to get back into half-marathon form. I guess for now I'll run carefully, and add some cross training stuff. I'll throw in some cycling and some swimming (I live near an olympic pool) to maintain my training intensity. Cheers
Sorry for rambling - I feel at a loss for my non-improvements.
I ran a crappy 6M race in 48 minutes back at the beginning of August with little training before hand, and am running another 10K October 19th.
So...in August you basically weren't training much and ran 7:50 pace or so for 10k. Fast forward a mere 6 weeks and you just ran a solo 5k at 6:50 pace and that doesn't qualify as improvement in that time period? 48 10k is equivalent to around 23 5k, and you just ran 30 sec per mile faster than that in a NON RACE. Put you in a race and you run in the 20:xx range easily.
If you expect more improvement than that...running probably isn't for you. I wouldn't neccessarily expect to see ANY major difference in fitness from a mere six weeks, let alone 30 seconds. Most runners are happy to improve 30 seconds in 5k over an entire training cycle or even entire year as you get more experienced. You just improved 30 seconds per MILE in 6 weeks.
Even using your half marathon or treadmill 10k, that still only predicts about 22:30-23:00 for 5k, which is still 20 seconds per mile improvement in a few weeks.
I was really looking for the 19:11
Why 19:11? More importantly if you expected 19:11 why did you go out in just 6:50. You'd need to be out in 6:10 for that.
I can consistently do 880 repeats in 3 min. My longer runs are run at an 8 min pace, and I've calculated I have about VO2 of about 44-46 (both numbers feel paltry).
When you say 3 minutes do you mean 3:00 or 3:xx. Also, when doing those how much recovery are you taking between repeats, and how many repeats are you doing.
Don't worry about calculated VO2, it has nothing to do with reality. The only way to know VO2 is lab testing, and even then it tells you next to nothing about fitness or race ability. Guys with 85 VO2 get destroyed by guys with 60.
8 min per mile is good for regular runs assuming it is truly easy. But considering you are in 21 shape or so, 8:00 is probably a little too fast of a pace for regular easy runs. 8:30 would be more appropriate.
A better question would be how fast can you do a 20-25 min tempo run at a comfortably hard pace?
Random post of the day: I will be in the audience at IEM SAN JOSE.
I am super-pumped about this, and just wanted to check in and see if any other runners were also planning to attend and wanted to get together to go for a "TL run" at some point?
On September 17 2014 07:31 mtmentat wrote: Random post of the day: I will be in the audience at IEM SAN JOSE.
I am super-pumped about this, and just wanted to check in and see if any other runners were also planning to attend and wanted to get together to go for a "TL run" at some point?
I play BW, so no IEM for me...not to mention I'm far too poor to actually travel. Best of luck finding other runners though!
Had the first of my big 18k workouts. My pace was 4:36 min/km, my training plan wanted me to run it with a 4:32 pace. Weather was shitty and I think it slowed me down significantly. My legs feel pretty good right now and felt OK while running. I ran kinda sloppy at about 1:00h which is basically where my previous tempo runs finished. I'm confident that I can push the pace down to 4:32 in the next two weeks. Sub 1:35 or even faster for the half should be possible.
Did the biggest running event in the Netherlands today (Dam tot dam loop). It's a 16.09 km (10 miles) run from Amsterdam to Zaandam. I'm not that experienced of a runner but I'm very satisfied with my result! Finished in 1:24:18 for an average speed of 11,454 km/h.
On September 22 2014 04:16 Twisted wrote: Did the biggest running event in the Netherlands today (Dam tot dam loop). It's a 16.09 km (10 miles) run from Amsterdam to Zaandam. I'm not that experienced of a runner but I'm very satisfied with my result! Finished in 1:24:18 for an average speed of 11,454 km/h.
That's a solid pace for a not experienced runner and 10 miles hurt if you don't run a lot. Congrats. Next stop Half Marathon or a sub 50min 10k?
Question: When running hills what am I supposed to be trying to keep the same: my speed, my intensity or my heartrate? Or am I missing something fundamental about running hills?
Obviously if I try to keep my speed the same, my intensity/hr goes way up. If I try to keep my HR the same then my speed drops like crazy.
Question: When running hills what am I supposed to be trying to keep the same: my speed, my intensity or my heartrate? Or am I missing something fundamental about running hills?
Obviously if I try to keep my speed the same, my intensity/hr goes way up. If I try to keep my HR the same then my speed drops like crazy.
Why hello, there! Having run a few "hills" this year, I figured I might chime in.
Run with the same intensity & heartrate, unless you're specifically doing a workout trying to get faster on hills (in which case, push it!). It will feel slow, until you're halfway up the hill. Then you'll be glad you have a little bit of extra aerobic capacity to keep on going as your legs get tired of the extra duty.
On September 24 2014 11:43 Bonham wrote: Speaking from experience, I advise against running up hills. It is a bad idea. Avoid it.
Is there a short answer as to why? If you say 'no' I'm willing to defer to your great PR's and just agree! My workout tomorrow has warmup, then 3 x 8min at Z4, preferably up hill... was wondering wtf to do there.
On September 24 2014 11:43 Bonham wrote: Speaking from experience, I advise against running up hills. It is a bad idea. Avoid it.
Is there a short answer as to why? If you say 'no' I'm willing to defer to your great PR's and just agree! My workout tomorrow has warmup, then 3 x 8min at Z4, preferably up hill... was wondering wtf to do there.
He is being sarcastic.
Running hills are good, hilly aerobic runs at easy to moderate paces are nice for strength building and shorter, faster more repeat style hills are good for preparing the body for full pace speedwork on the track.
Yes! Sorry, sarcasm confirmed. Running hills is a useful training tool, as L Master says. Unlike some of the eccentrics in this thread (the name mtmentat springs to the lips), we of the right thinking element dislike hills in races, that's all.
On September 22 2014 04:16 Twisted wrote: Did the biggest running event in the Netherlands today (Dam tot dam loop). It's a 16.09 km (10 miles) run from Amsterdam to Zaandam. I'm not that experienced of a runner but I'm very satisfied with my result! Finished in 1:24:18 for an average speed of 11,454 km/h.
That's a solid pace for a not experienced runner and 10 miles hurt if you don't run a lot. Congrats. Next stop Half Marathon or a sub 50min 10k?
Hah probably not looking to become a more advanced runner. I also like my time in the gym and the two don't mix that well if you overdo one or the other. I'm fine with just being able to do that run. It goes right by my house and it's a really fun run with loads of public and music stands along the way. I was just happy with my result and figured I'd share.
Hell maybe if I keep it up I'll even start enjoying it more, who knows . Being able to run really well is nice anyway. I'll definitely do more events though! It was a lot of fun. But it will be a long spell before I do a half-marathon . Probably do 10km's instead. Maybe that sub 50 minutes 10km is a nice goal then.
Well, the last bit of hay is in the barn. Just back from my final workout before Portland: 3x1600m at 5k race pace with 3:20 jogging in between. Went 5:06, 5:03, 5:04. (I'm pretty confident I could get below 16 in the 5k right now, which would be cool because my current PR is 16 even, but that is beside the point at the moment I suppose.) The rest of the training contains nothing challenging, so it's really all in my head from this point.
I feel a mix of excitement and nerves that I'm sure will only increase as October 5 gets closer.
Nerves: (1) some of the marathon pace workouts have not been great, (2) two of my three tuneup races have been disappointing, and (3) I fly in the day before the race, not two days before, so there's a chance that airport entropy will make the day more stressful than I'd want.
Excitement: (1) the half marathon tuneup, which is the most important one I think, went very well, (2) once or twice a week, for the last 17 weeks, I've been doing medium-long and long runs with the last 10 miles within spitting distance of race pace, so I know what it will feel like when the going gets tough, and (3) I'll be going from 671m above sea level to 15m.
I'll post a race report in here as soon as I'm able, but as that might not be until the Monday after the race. The results should be on portlandmarathon.org not too long after Sunday Oct. 5 if anyone cares. (My bib number is 2370.) You're also supposed to be able to track a runner through the race somehow, but I can't find it on their site at the moment.
Well, the last bit of hay is in the barn. Just back from my final workout before Portland: 3x1600m at 5k race pace with 3:20 jogging in between. Went 5:06, 5:03, 5:04. (I'm pretty confident I could get below 16 in the 5k right now, which would be cool because my current PR is 16 even, but that is beside the point at the moment I suppose.) The rest of the training contains nothing challenging, so it's really all in my head from this point.
I feel a mix of excitement and nerves that I'm sure will only increase as October 5 gets closer.
Nerves: (1) some of the marathon pace workouts have not been great, (2) two of my three tuneup races have been disappointing, and (3) I fly in the day before the race, not two days before, so there's a chance that airport entropy will make the day more stressful than I'd want.
Excitement: (1) the half marathon tuneup, which is the most important one I think, went very well, (2) once or twice a week, for the last 17 weeks, I've been doing medium-long and long runs with the last 10 miles within spitting distance of race pace, so I know what it will feel like when the going gets tough, and (3) I'll be going from 671m above sea level to 15m.
I'll post a race report in here as soon as I'm able, but as that might not be until the Monday after the race. The results should be on portlandmarathon.org not too long after Sunday Oct. 5 if anyone cares. (My bib number is 2370.) You're also supposed to be able to track a runner through the race somehow, but I can't find it on their site at the moment.
2:40 or nothing. Ready or not, here I come!
I wish you the best of luck. Make it happen. ______________________
Tomorrow is the Berlin Marathon. The women's field is a little underwhelming. It's basically Shalane Flannigan trying to break the National Record (which is almost two minutes faster than her PR) and a few of the many East African runners trying to follow her to pass her at the last 3km. The men's field is stacked though: Dennis Kimetto who holds the record at Chicago (2:03:45) might break the World Record. Emmanuel Mutai who was a close second at Chicago last year has a realistic shot at beating Kimetto this time. Tsegaye Kebede is starting (2:04:38) and 22 yo Geoffrey Kamworor (2:06:12) is getting a lot of hype by the organizers.
Race starts at 8:45am local time. I'm gonna watch it at TV to get motivated for my long run. http://universalsports.com/ is broadcasting live for the US.
Running is so weird. I had such a great/strong week of training, (every run felt awesome and strong) but totally felt like trash my entire long run this morning. And I also had some random cramping/ache on my left foot (which I am attributing to worn out shoes, 350+ miles on them, bought new shoes this afternoon)
Some days it's just not there! Still a solid week, I'll probably put a few miles in tomorrow and end up with 45 miles or so this week. Probably will push 50+ next week with one more crazy long run on Saturday (before starting to cut back and begin taper two weeks out from marathon day)
still shooting for somewhere in the 3:40 range for a goal time, hopefully next week long run goes better.
best of luck to you Bonham! Hope everything goes well and you nail your goal. 2:40 would be an amazing time.
On September 28 2014 05:16 LuckyFool wrote: Running is so weird. I had such a great/strong week of training, (every run felt awesome and strong) but totally felt like trash my entire long run this morning. And I also had some random cramping/ache on my left foot (which I am attributing to worn out shoes, 350+ miles on them, bought new shoes this afternoon)
Some days it's just not there! Still a solid week, I'll probably put a few miles in tomorrow and end up with 45 miles or so this week. Probably will push 50+ next week with one more crazy long run on Saturday (before starting to cut back and begin taper two weeks out from marathon day)
still shooting for somewhere in the 3:40 range for a goal time, hopefully next week long run goes better.
Yep, this is pretty common. That's why it's important never to stress on one particular workout, just think of it as hay in the barn and look at the overall picture.
Berlin is ahead of the WR by 24s right now at 30k. Pacemakers are gone now and it finally gets interesting. I'm shocked that Kebede couldn't follow longer than 20k. Three runnes have the lead: Mutai, Kimetto and Kamworor. Oh they are passing "Wilder Eber". I ran there a few weeks ago. =)
*Kamworor has lost contact at about 34k. Kimetto and Mutai both looking strong. -49s to WR pace. *Kimetto attacks at 38k and tries to decide the race.
On September 28 2014 17:16 Don_Julio wrote: Berlin is ahead of the WR by 24s right now at 30k. Pacemakers are gone now and it finally gets interesting. I'm shocked that Kebede couldn't follow longer than 20k. Three runnes have the lead: Mutai, Kimetto and Kamworor. Oh they are passing "Wilder Eber". I ran there a few weeks ago. =)
*Kamworor has lost contact at about 34k. Kimetto and Mutai both looking strong. -49s to WR pace. *Kimetto attacks at 38k and tries to decide the race.
*Dennis Kimetto wins with a new WR of 1:02:57
Dang, 1:02 is so legit. Pretty worried about the drugs though, that's really an absurd amount that he just lopped off the old record, nearly holding on to Usain's top end pace for the full race!
Was actually a great race to watch. They just chilled through 30k, nice even splits just a hair slower than record pace and then Mutai really got the race rolling and made sub 2:03 possible, even if he just fell off. Incredible racing by both E. Mutai and Kimetto, Kimetto was just that much more incredible.
Talk about silver king too...Mutai now has 6 silvers in WMM. Unrelated but equally absurd is the fact that Kimetto only started running 4 years ago...
On September 29 2014 04:05 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Mental barriers are a funny thing. I would bet my life that if they thought the world record was say 1:55, a lot of these guys would be running sub 2.
I promise you they would not. I'd put a million dollars down that we won't see sub 2 within my lifetime, provided some new super drug doesn't come out.
Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
12:15 for 5k is 3:56 pace for a 5k. So far only one person in the world has ever done that for two miles, and that was only 3:59 pace.
For the 10k you're talking about having the fitness to run a 10k at a pace that has only been run a handful of times for 5k since the days of Haile and Kenenisa. It just isn't happening anytime soon, as no athlete is anywhere near the level required.
Low 2:02 looks like the current "limit" until we start such athletes superior to guys like Hicham, Kenenisa, Haile, and Komen
On September 29 2014 04:05 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Mental barriers are a funny thing. I would bet my life that if they thought the world record was say 1:55, a lot of these guys would be running sub 2.
I promise you they would not. I'd put a million dollars down that we won't see sub 2 within my lifetime, provided some new super drug doesn't come out.
Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
12:15 for 5k is 3:56 pace for a 5k. So far only one person in the world has ever done that for two miles, and that was only 3:59 pace.
For the 10k you're talking about having the fitness to run a 10k at a pace that has only been run a handful of times for 5k since the days of Haile and Kenenisa. It just isn't happening anytime soon, as no athlete is anywhere near the level required.
Low 2:02 looks like the current "limit" until we start such athletes superior to guys like Hicham, Kenenisa, Haile, and Komen
On September 29 2014 04:05 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Mental barriers are a funny thing. I would bet my life that if they thought the world record was say 1:55, a lot of these guys would be running sub 2.
I promise you they would not. I'd put a million dollars down that we won't see sub 2 within my lifetime, provided some new super drug doesn't come out.
Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
12:15 for 5k is 3:56 pace for a 5k. So far only one person in the world has ever done that for two miles, and that was only 3:59 pace.
For the 10k you're talking about having the fitness to run a 10k at a pace that has only been run a handful of times for 5k since the days of Haile and Kenenisa. It just isn't happening anytime soon, as no athlete is anywhere near the level required.
Low 2:02 looks like the current "limit" until we start such athletes superior to guys like Hicham, Kenenisa, Haile, and Komen
ok I'll prove you wrong challenge accepted
Regarding your argument about the mental barrier. Look at the women's marathon record by Paula Radcliffe 2:15:25. Nobody has broken the 2:20h this year yet. One last year. Knowing that there's a super fast record won't make you run faster. The men could break the 2h in L_Master's lifetime because I'm predicting some serious genetic engineering which dominating professional sports at some point.
On September 29 2014 04:24 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:21 L_Master wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:05 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Mental barriers are a funny thing. I would bet my life that if they thought the world record was say 1:55, a lot of these guys would be running sub 2.
I promise you they would not. I'd put a million dollars down that we won't see sub 2 within my lifetime, provided some new super drug doesn't come out.
Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
12:15 for 5k is 3:56 pace for a 5k. So far only one person in the world has ever done that for two miles, and that was only 3:59 pace.
For the 10k you're talking about having the fitness to run a 10k at a pace that has only been run a handful of times for 5k since the days of Haile and Kenenisa. It just isn't happening anytime soon, as no athlete is anywhere near the level required.
Low 2:02 looks like the current "limit" until we start such athletes superior to guys like Hicham, Kenenisa, Haile, and Komen
ok I'll prove you wrong challenge accepted
Regarding your argument about the mental barrier. Look at the women's marathon record by Paula Radcliffe 2:15:25. Nobody has broken the 2:20h this year yet. One last year. Knowing that there's a super fast record won't make you run faster. The men could break the 2h in L_Master's lifetime because I'm predicting some serious genetic engineering which dominating professional sports at some point.
Who says the men and women's brains work the same way? Who says there isn't a conspiracy going on not not allow anyone to improve Paula's time, etc etc. Lots of explanations.
What I mean to say is that scientifically speaking the human physiology allows for quicker times - or at least that is the scientific consensus, of course it is impossible to rule out that science is overlooking a factor which we don't know about now which makes it impossible to run faster.
On September 29 2014 04:24 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:21 L_Master wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:05 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Mental barriers are a funny thing. I would bet my life that if they thought the world record was say 1:55, a lot of these guys would be running sub 2.
I promise you they would not. I'd put a million dollars down that we won't see sub 2 within my lifetime, provided some new super drug doesn't come out.
Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
12:15 for 5k is 3:56 pace for a 5k. So far only one person in the world has ever done that for two miles, and that was only 3:59 pace.
For the 10k you're talking about having the fitness to run a 10k at a pace that has only been run a handful of times for 5k since the days of Haile and Kenenisa. It just isn't happening anytime soon, as no athlete is anywhere near the level required.
Low 2:02 looks like the current "limit" until we start such athletes superior to guys like Hicham, Kenenisa, Haile, and Komen
ok I'll prove you wrong challenge accepted
Regarding your argument about the mental barrier. Look at the women's marathon record by Paula Radcliffe 2:15:25. Nobody has broken the 2:20h this year yet. One last year. Knowing that there's a super fast record won't make you run faster. The men could break the 2h in L_Master's lifetime because I'm predicting some serious genetic engineering which dominating professional sports at some point.
Who says the men and women's brains work the same way? Who says there isn't a conspiracy going on not not allow anyone to improve Paula's time, etc etc. Lots of explanations.
On September 29 2014 04:05 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Mental barriers are a funny thing. I would bet my life that if they thought the world record was say 1:55, a lot of these guys would be running sub 2.
I promise you they would not. I'd put a million dollars down that we won't see sub 2 within my lifetime, provided some new super drug doesn't come out.
Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
12:15 for 5k is 3:56 pace for a 5k. So far only one person in the world has ever done that for two miles, and that was only 3:59 pace.
For the 10k you're talking about having the fitness to run a 10k at a pace that has only been run a handful of times for 5k since the days of Haile and Kenenisa. It just isn't happening anytime soon, as no athlete is anywhere near the level required.
Low 2:02 looks like the current "limit" until we start such athletes superior to guys like Hicham, Kenenisa, Haile, and Komen
ok I'll prove you wrong challenge accepted
Wait, since you said "I'll prove you wrong" does this mean you are going to personally run sub 2? That would be pretty badass!
On September 29 2014 06:32 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 05:39 Don_Julio wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:24 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:21 L_Master wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:05 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Mental barriers are a funny thing. I would bet my life that if they thought the world record was say 1:55, a lot of these guys would be running sub 2.
I promise you they would not. I'd put a million dollars down that we won't see sub 2 within my lifetime, provided some new super drug doesn't come out.
Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
12:15 for 5k is 3:56 pace for a 5k. So far only one person in the world has ever done that for two miles, and that was only 3:59 pace.
For the 10k you're talking about having the fitness to run a 10k at a pace that has only been run a handful of times for 5k since the days of Haile and Kenenisa. It just isn't happening anytime soon, as no athlete is anywhere near the level required.
Low 2:02 looks like the current "limit" until we start such athletes superior to guys like Hicham, Kenenisa, Haile, and Komen
ok I'll prove you wrong challenge accepted
Regarding your argument about the mental barrier. Look at the women's marathon record by Paula Radcliffe 2:15:25. Nobody has broken the 2:20h this year yet. One last year. Knowing that there's a super fast record won't make you run faster. The men could break the 2h in L_Master's lifetime because I'm predicting some serious genetic engineering which dominating professional sports at some point.
Who says the men and women's brains work the same way? Who says there isn't a conspiracy going on not not allow anyone to improve Paula's time, etc etc. Lots of explanations.
Can't tell if sarcastic or serious...
It's neither! It's an open-minded approach to perceiving the world.
Until we see people running like 57:xx or low 58 in a half (only a couple guys have ever run low 58's), nobody is going to run sub 2 in a full. I don't think I'd go as far to say we won't see it in our lifetime though. You never know what the future holds in terms of talent, training and potential. (or drugs lol)
sick run though, 2:02:57 is insane. Sometime next week I need to go run a lap at that pace to appreciate the absurdity of that, 4:41/mile pace. Just under 70 second lap required...that's basically my 400M PR lol.
On September 29 2014 06:32 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 05:39 Don_Julio wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:24 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:21 L_Master wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:05 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Mental barriers are a funny thing. I would bet my life that if they thought the world record was say 1:55, a lot of these guys would be running sub 2.
I promise you they would not. I'd put a million dollars down that we won't see sub 2 within my lifetime, provided some new super drug doesn't come out.
Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
12:15 for 5k is 3:56 pace for a 5k. So far only one person in the world has ever done that for two miles, and that was only 3:59 pace.
For the 10k you're talking about having the fitness to run a 10k at a pace that has only been run a handful of times for 5k since the days of Haile and Kenenisa. It just isn't happening anytime soon, as no athlete is anywhere near the level required.
Low 2:02 looks like the current "limit" until we start seeing athletes superior to guys like Hicham, Kenenisa, Haile, and Komen
ok I'll prove you wrong challenge accepted
Regarding your argument about the mental barrier. Look at the women's marathon record by Paula Radcliffe 2:15:25. Nobody has broken the 2:20h this year yet. One last year. Knowing that there's a super fast record won't make you run faster. The men could break the 2h in L_Master's lifetime because I'm predicting some serious genetic engineering which dominating professional sports at some point.
Who says the men and women's brains work the same way? Who says there isn't a conspiracy going on not not allow anyone to improve Paula's time, etc etc. Lots of explanations.
Can't tell if sarcastic or serious...
It's neither! It's an open-minded approach to perceiving the world.
Haha alright if you mean from the standpoint of "this isn't a complete impossibility" then I'm on board. Never say Never. Though for me personally that's another type of situation I'd happily take 1,000:1 odds on. It's the difference between betting that one player is matchfixing versus every single person in the league is matchfixing. Impossible? Certainly not. High improbable? Absolutely.
Actually the question I'm interested in, as you are more than willing to take me up on my hypothetical bet, is what you see changing that will have sub 2 occuring in say the next...40 years.
On September 29 2014 06:40 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 06:37 L_Master wrote:
On September 29 2014 06:32 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 05:39 Don_Julio wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:24 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:21 L_Master wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:05 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Mental barriers are a funny thing. I would bet my life that if they thought the world record was say 1:55, a lot of these guys would be running sub 2.
I promise you they would not. I'd put a million dollars down that we won't see sub 2 within my lifetime, provided some new super drug doesn't come out.
Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
12:15 for 5k is 3:56 pace for a 5k. So far only one person in the world has ever done that for two miles, and that was only 3:59 pace.
For the 10k you're talking about having the fitness to run a 10k at a pace that has only been run a handful of times for 5k since the days of Haile and Kenenisa. It just isn't happening anytime soon, as no athlete is anywhere near the level required.
Low 2:02 looks like the current "limit" until we start seeing athletes superior to guys like Hicham, Kenenisa, Haile, and Komen
ok I'll prove you wrong challenge accepted
Regarding your argument about the mental barrier. Look at the women's marathon record by Paula Radcliffe 2:15:25. Nobody has broken the 2:20h this year yet. One last year. Knowing that there's a super fast record won't make you run faster. The men could break the 2h in L_Master's lifetime because I'm predicting some serious genetic engineering which dominating professional sports at some point.
Who says the men and women's brains work the same way? Who says there isn't a conspiracy going on not not allow anyone to improve Paula's time, etc etc. Lots of explanations.
Can't tell if sarcastic or serious...
It's neither! It's an open-minded approach to perceiving the world.
Haha alright if you mean from the standpoint of "this isn't a complete impossibility" then I'm on board. Never say Never. Though for me personally that's another type of situation I'd happily take 1,000:1 odds on. It's the difference between betting that one player is matchfixing versus every single person in the league is matchfixing. Impossible? Certainly not. High improbable? Absolutely.
Actually the question I'm interested in, as you are more than willing to take me up on my hypothetical bet, is what you see changing that will have sub 2 occuring in say the next...40 years.
To me, the real question is: why are they running so slow? Mental barriers, laziness or maybe something entirely else? The scientific consensus has low 1:5x as within the realm of possibilities and that's only considering what has already been observed in human physiology - it's not even accounting for the chance that a human comes along with genetical and physiological limits beyond the current.
Edit: also it might be that the other female runners are simply intimidated! there are infititieth possibilities!
On September 29 2014 10:46 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: To me, the real question is: why are they running so slow? Mental barriers, laziness or maybe something entirely else?
Good point. Pretty lazy, those professional athletes.
On September 29 2014 06:40 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 06:37 L_Master wrote:
On September 29 2014 06:32 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 05:39 Don_Julio wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:24 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:21 L_Master wrote:
On September 29 2014 04:05 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Mental barriers are a funny thing. I would bet my life that if they thought the world record was say 1:55, a lot of these guys would be running sub 2.
I promise you they would not. I'd put a million dollars down that we won't see sub 2 within my lifetime, provided some new super drug doesn't come out.
Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
12:15 for 5k is 3:56 pace for a 5k. So far only one person in the world has ever done that for two miles, and that was only 3:59 pace.
For the 10k you're talking about having the fitness to run a 10k at a pace that has only been run a handful of times for 5k since the days of Haile and Kenenisa. It just isn't happening anytime soon, as no athlete is anywhere near the level required.
Low 2:02 looks like the current "limit" until we start seeing athletes superior to guys like Hicham, Kenenisa, Haile, and Komen
ok I'll prove you wrong challenge accepted
Regarding your argument about the mental barrier. Look at the women's marathon record by Paula Radcliffe 2:15:25. Nobody has broken the 2:20h this year yet. One last year. Knowing that there's a super fast record won't make you run faster. The men could break the 2h in L_Master's lifetime because I'm predicting some serious genetic engineering which dominating professional sports at some point.
Who says the men and women's brains work the same way? Who says there isn't a conspiracy going on not not allow anyone to improve Paula's time, etc etc. Lots of explanations.
Can't tell if sarcastic or serious...
It's neither! It's an open-minded approach to perceiving the world.
Haha alright if you mean from the standpoint of "this isn't a complete impossibility" then I'm on board. Never say Never. Though for me personally that's another type of situation I'd happily take 1,000:1 odds on. It's the difference between betting that one player is matchfixing versus every single person in the league is matchfixing. Impossible? Certainly not. High improbable? Absolutely.
Actually the question I'm interested in, as you are more than willing to take me up on my hypothetical bet, is what you see changing that will have sub 2 occuring in say the next...40 years.
To me, the real question is: why are they running so slow? Mental barriers, laziness or maybe something entirely else? The scientific consensus has low 1:5x as within the realm of possibilities and that's only considering what has already been observed in human physiology - it's not even accounting for the chance that a human comes along with genetical and physiological limits beyond the current.
Edit: also it might be that the other female runners are simply intimidated! there are infititieth possibilities!
First thing I'm going to do is call you out on the bolded bullshit. Scientific Consensus? Not only is there no scientific consensus surrounding the issue, there is almost no data at all that suggest low 1:5x is possible. How about this...show me one piece of peer reviewed scientific literature that suggests 1:5x is possible. I'll paypal you $15 if you do.
1:52 for example is asking, on the roads, (inherently slower than the track) a pace less than 2 seconds per mile off 10k WR pace...and once you factor in road v track you're talking about an effort for a full marathon probably equivalent to a 26:00 track 10000. You really think that "just running harder" is going to allow athletes to go from not being able to get through even 10k at that pace to running a marathon at that pace?
Let me give you some equivalent PRs:
53 half 23:45 10k 11:30 5k 3:15 mile 1:28 800
Considering our fastest guys can't even sprint 400 at that 800 pace you suddenly want people to run twice that distance at that same pace.
A mile at faster than WR 800 pace? A 5000 at faster than WR mile pace?
Let me sum it up this way: Am I going to say those times are not possible period? No. But the idea of anyone running those times anytime soon is impossible if for no other reason than athletes are not anywhere near physically fast enough to run such times. You can't run a 3:15 mile without being able to run somewhere around 42-44 seconds for the 400. The only guys running 43 seconds are the absolute cream of the crop 400 sprinters.
The only way I can imagine such times being possible is if you could get athletes possessing Usain Bolt sprint speed to have Bekele level endurance. That athlete could realistically run the times listed. Of course the problem that arises is if you take a guy of that speed and have him start doing lots of endurance work...his speed falls off. Start showing me coaching systems that allow sprinters to develop distance runner qualities without losing speed and I'll start to reconsider my bet.
If you just want to say "humans can capable of running much faster across all events but just can't cause of mental blocks", then go ahead; but I'll still take my bet anyday if for no other reason than I see nothing on the horizon that is likely to change the mental attitudes of people so dramatically that they will suddenly be able to run 10k at what is currently an excellent 1500m pace.
Two other reasons that I don't have any reason to suspect the idea that there is a "mental" barrier of any sort:
1)East Africans - Many of these guys grew up with zero notions of what was possible and what wasn't. Most of them don't even have clocks or watches. If mental blocks are holding people back, the East Africans shouldn't be so troubled by it...and yet they run no faster than anybody else.
2)Cycling - In cycling it's possible to calculate FTP (one hour maximum power) from VO2 and ones efficiency. Many, many people have been tested in terms of efficiency and absolute upper and limits found are between 21-26% efficient. If you take that, and use the most generous assumptions for efficiency ever found (unrealistic anyway as there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between VO2 and efficiency), and the best known VO2 max you get an FTP value of 6.6 W/kg. Guess what the FTP of most top riders is? Yep, somewhere between 6-6.5 W/kg.
All of which means that riders are very much at the "theoretical" physiological limit. If there existed such a mental block, we should either find a much higher theoretical limit OR riders should be much, much further from 6.5 W/kg than they actually are. However, they are not, which really leaves only one possible option, and that is of course that for some reason cyclists can mentally push to the limit and runners cannot...which seems nonsensical to me.
So my conclusion is; while this does not mean that we discard this idea that people are mentally capable of much more than people currently perform, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that no such mental barriers to exist, and precious little, if any evidence (quantitative or qualitative) to give credence to the existence to such barriers. For the time being there are plenty of reasons to think we are fairly close to the physiologic limits of human performance and very little evidence to support a view that runners are far away from this theoretical limit.
On September 29 2014 04:21 L_Master wrote:Sub 2 is equivalent to roughly 12:15 for 5k, 25:30 for 10k, and 57 flat for the half.
Can you tell me where these numbers are from? MacMillan I guess? With Jack Daniels' formula, it's closer to 12:30, 26:00 and 57:20. So a little bit less difficult, but still far from being done by anyone in the coming 5-10 years.
I also cannot really believe a low 1h5x can be done. It's not a question of a mental block... By the way, the record was still 2:06 15 years ago.
How do you compare different routes, I mean some are more flat than others. Is this GAP feature (grade adjusted pace, inspired by C.T.M. Davies studying environmental effects on running.) in Strava of any use?
On September 30 2014 01:09 Yrr wrote: How do you compare different routes, I mean some are more flat than others. Is this GAP feature (grade adjusted pace, inspired by C.T.M. Davies studying environmental effects on running.) in Strava of any use?
There is no "correct" answer because every runners strengths and weaknesses vary. Just realize that the hillier the route the slower the time will be compared to a baseline flat route.
I personally find that GAP for me tends to be a good estimate, but falls off as things start to get super steep (10+ % grade)
For my own training, I find GAP interesting to look at, but often a bit weird. I think it punishes downhill running and rewards uphill running too much, so you have to sprint down hills and almost walk up them to make it balance out at the pace you want to run. So I look at it as a novelty, but I don't put any weight behind it when I'm trying to figure out if I hit my goal for an LT session or whatever.
On September 30 2014 12:27 Bonham wrote: For my own training, I find GAP interesting to look at, but often a bit weird. I think it punishes downhill running and rewards uphill running too much, so you have to sprint down hills and almost walk up them to make it balance out at the pace you want to run. So I look at it as a novelty, but I don't put any weight behind it when I'm trying to figure out if I hit my goal for an LT session or whatever.
I agree on the novelty part, but definitely find it more accurate than you do, especially on the uphills. In fact if anything on the uphills it isn't generous enough for me especially as it gets steep. A good example was the last run I did, it was like 20% grade and I was doing about 17:00 mile pace and the given GAP was only 7:50, and I was probably putting in closer to a 6:15 type effort. Honestly though given how incredibly far that is from normal running, I'm impressed it even gets in the ballpark.
On downhills I generally think it's fairly accurate for me, for instance when I bomb down the 6% of Ruxton Avenue at 4:10 pace it usually gives me a GAP of around 5:10-5:20, which feels about right as I'm pretty much running mile race effort. On easier runs the downhill GAP can be a bit generous, maybe 10-20 seconds harder "effort" than I'm actually running (i.e. GAP = 7:00 while I'm putting in 7:20 effort)
October is upon us. The month of truth. Let's crush our PRs guys.
September ended terribly for me. I had a slight cold last week which slowed me down immensly and I had stomach problems at the weekend so that I had to skip an easy run and felt miserably at my long run. I was supposed to run the long run at a fast pace but the stomach problems caused some light diarrhoe sunday morning so I was completely dehydrated and out of energy at about 5k. Just finishing the 22,5k loop was tough. On the bright side I'm feeling revovered now and running slow at the weekend allows me to race a 10k tomorrow. I hope to get a rough estimate for my HM pace in two and a half weeks out of it and set a new 10k PR.
October brings lots of things: judgement, truth, and tasty lagers.
Go Don go! Diarrhea gets the best of all of us from time to time, so don't worry about it. I think you're due for big 10k and HM PRs. When is your goal HM?
Have a question I was hoping to have answered, you guys seem pretty knowledgeable. I was reading Advanced Marathoning and it seems to indicate (as well as copious information found on the net) that running certain amounts of miles per week will put you in a certain percentage of finishers. I get this, but Why don't they ever say what Pace you should be running at? I could do the "advanced" program but run it at a 12 min miles, I won't be crushing anyone on race day. So is it based on current LT pace, and if so, how do you knwo if you should move up to more mileage?
On October 02 2014 12:59 Bonham wrote: October brings lots of things: judgement, truth, and tasty lagers.
Go Don go! Diarrhea gets the best of all of us from time to time, so don't worry about it. I think you're due for big 10k and HM PRs. When is your goal HM?
Yay for diarrhea! I don't know how it happened but I ran a big PR last night. 42:10 is an improvement by 1:50. Everything that could go wrong went wrong yesterday. I had a troubled digestion again and my pre-race routine was totally out of order. I forgot my bandana and my watch! Maybe it was a good idea because I would not have had the guts to run this pace if I knew how fast I was. I basically had a pacer for the first 1 and a half of four laps, a woman who I knew from previous race and who usually runs a low 43. Passed her and never saw her again. I always kept pushing slowly passing other runners and while I had a few tough moments at about 7km I never was really exhausted. I still had a lot of power in me at the last lap and managed to sprint the last 100m. I could have run sub 42 without a doubt.
Before the race I would have told you that I'm targeting a sub 1:37 for the half and be happy with it and maybe look at 1:35h. L_Master would have told me that I can run a 1:32. Now that I've seen my progress at the 10k I will target a time sub 1:35h. McMillan suggests a flat 1:34 and his calculator was spot on last year.
On October 03 2014 10:00 WoolySheep wrote: Hi guys,
Have a question I was hoping to have answered, you guys seem pretty knowledgeable. I was reading Advanced Marathoning and it seems to indicate (as well as copious information found on the net) that running certain amounts of miles per week will put you in a certain percentage of finishers. I get this, but Why don't they ever say what Pace you should be running at? I could do the "advanced" program but run it at a 12 min miles, I won't be crushing anyone on race day. So is it based on current LT pace, and if so, how do you knwo if you should move up to more mileage?
Not knowing the book and not being a marathoner myself I can only guess: It's probably to emphasize that if you want to improve your marathon time (or any distance running time) increasing your mileage is the key. Running a 100 miles per week doesn't make you run a Boston Qualifying time automically but if you look at great runners like Bonham or any sub-elite they all run a shit ton of miles. Pace doesn't really matter for most of your runs. You still need to target a race pace though to get good workouts. Most runners know what they're capable of and what goals are realistic to achieve. A first time marathoner should have a couple of halfs under his belt and that distance gives a pretty good estimate for the full marathon.
Well Lewis\Bonham is crushing Portland so far. 8th overall on a 2:27 pace through the first 8.9 miles holy shit lol, there's some issue causing problems with data past the 13.1 point though...I'm sure he's still flying.
On October 06 2014 00:27 LuckyFool wrote: Well Lewis\Bonham is crushing Portland so far. 8th overall on a 2:27 pace through the first 8.9 miles holy shit lol, there's some issue causing problems with data past the 13.1 point though...I'm sure he's still flying.
That's fast as hell but makes me a little nervous. That's like 30 sec per mile faster than goal pace. I really hope thats either inaccurate or downhill. Bonhams fucking good, but I don't know if he is 227 good...and I'd hate to see that solid training cycle go to waste with a big blow up
Just clicked through 17.5miles at 1:43:12, 7th overall...a bit slower, but there were some hills during that segment. on track for 2:36 now if he holds it.
(missing the half splits, I guess there was some issue with that on the website)
21.1M in 2:04:38!! up to 6th overall! 2:35 flat is within reach. The last few miles of a marathon are always brutal though, fingers crossed he holds on right at this pace or has anything left in the tank after that absurdly quick start.
I must leave now so my live reporting is coming to an end. The last few miles look flat though,
EDIT: actually it's all downhill in the last few miles, YEAA
when i run when i exhale i do this goldfish puff out cheeks things OR i do the between-the-teeth TSSSSSSSS thing when i exhale
its like i'm incapable of/dont want to exhale quickly/fully at once, so i do it gradually to begin with then the last bit i exhale quickly and normally.
why do i do this? is it bad? im trying to exhale quickly and fully with open mouth/lung is it coz (im) a smoker so my body doesnt like fast air going out of my lungs because it can cause pain/damage? thats the only thing i could think of really
Bonham either DNF or it's a technical issue. Damn.
On October 06 2014 02:16 FFGenerations wrote: yo hi runners.
when i run when i exhale i do this goldfish puff out cheeks things OR i do the between-the-teeth TSSSSSSSS thing when i exhale
its like i'm incapable of/dont want to exhale quickly/fully at once, so i do it gradually to begin with then the last bit i exhale quickly and normally.
why do i do this? is it bad? im trying to exhale quickly and fully with open mouth/lung is it coz (im) a smoker so my body doesnt like fast air going out of my lungs because it can cause pain/damage? thats the only thing i could think of really
Don't think too much about breathing. What happens when you don't focus at it all should be close to ideal.
Most runners don't breathe in a 1:1 in-/exhale rythm. I usually have 2:2 rythm, that's two times breathing in and two times exhaling. It can change if I'm running at an unusual fast or slow pace. Every breath lines up with a step. But again, I don't do this consciously most of the time.
Make sure to not run too fast. Most of your runs should be run at a "conversational pace" which means you should be able to maintain a converation with someone else. Do some strides at the end of your run if that's too slow and boring.
I think we can relax. Up on strava, and while the last few miles were expectedly rough, he still met his sub 240 goal.
Given that pacing and more time to develop a marathon engine I could see lower 230s for Bonham in a year or so if he decides to stick with M training over shorter stuff
Slept better than I thought I would–only woke up once, around 3am, worried that the double alarms I set off didn’t work. At 5am, they did. Got up, made oatmeal, drank coffee, felt nervous.
I’d spent the last five months getting ready for this and obsessing about it. I’m not sure why I care so much about running–it would certainly be more socially beneficial to love volunteering, or more profitable to love working overtime–but it seems that I do. During my run on Saturday, it finally hit me that I was as ready as I would ever be and that agonizing further would not be constructive.
In light of this, after my shakeout run yesterday, I’d asked my dad and my girlfriend, who traveled with me to the race, not to discuss it with me. This made conversation around the breakfast table a little awkward, but that soon passed and we headed out into the morning gloom.
Waiting for the train to the start line, we fell into conversation with two locals on their way to the race. They were wearing garbage bags, I suppose to keep warm, though Portland has been so hot this week (about 29 C or 84 F high each day) that they seemed unnecessary to me. The couple were lovely and friendly, though, just like almost everyone else in the city. When my girlfriend finishes her residency in 2016, there’s an outside chance we’ll have to move to the States. I would not mind living in Portland. Everyone is friendly and the place seems positively magical.
Then off the train, two or three block walk to the starting pen. I’d planned on a 20 minute warmup (jog for 5, stretch for 10, jog for 5 with a few race-pace accelerations), but that got shot to pieces when I entered the pen. Forty minutes before the start, the place was jammed like a sardine tin. Stood in line to pee for 20 minutes, spent another 10 getting my watch to sync, and realized I wouldn’t get to warm up at all. So I just stretched my achilles tendons and my neck a bit and tried to stay calm.
Wound up standing next to an older dude with a BMI of about 30 who told me he was running his 51st marathon and hoped to finish in five hours. When I asked him how he got into the “A” corral with an ETA like that, he said he knew the race director. I asked him for Portland advice and he said “I don’t really have any. There really aren’t any hills on this course.” My online research made me think this was wrong–Portland’s course has a very famous ascent to the St. John’s suspension bridge over the Wilamette River around mile 17. His words would turn out to be wrong, but not for the reasons I suspected.
Then a bunch of Yanks sang the national anthem and the wheelchair racers went off and then we got going.
I’m told that there are two certainties in life: death and taxes. I submit that the list needs an addition: starting too fast in a race.
Here, in the “A” corral, where the most experienced runners gather, everyone went out like bats out of hell. I tried to hold back a bit, but for the first 800m or so you’re pinned in like a buffalo in the middle of a stampeding herd. It didn’t help matters any that the race organizers put the first two musical acts in this section, and they both went in for lots of fast-paced drumming.
But things thinned out reasonably, right around the time I saw my dad and girlfriend for the first time. The course peeled out onto an uphill section next to the Wilamette, under overpasses and past big cheering crowds. We climbed for about 4k, which went fine. I was right around my goal pace and feeling good. Then we turned around and came back down. In retrospect, this is where I sowed the seeds of my later suffering.
I consciously tried to float down this prolonged, gentle downhill, letting gravity do some of the work while not attacking in any sense. But I hadn’t really practiced running at race pace going down a hill at any point in training. I hadn’t thought it was necessary. So I went a little faster than I meant to coming down here, passing a guy and closing in on the lead pack more than I wanted to. By the time things leveled out around 9k, the watch read 3:35/km, five seconds faster than I wanted to.
The doubling-back of the course also let me see the later waves getting going here. An absolutely mind-boggling number of people ran this race. I can’t imagine what the experience in Boston or New York or Chicago or Berlin is like.
The course leveled out here, and I settled in a bit, pulling things up to 3:38/km. The dude I passed came back up and we chatted for 5k or so. He told me he was shooting for a 2:40. Then a guy running the half in a Reed College singlet came by and I latched onto him until about 18k where the half and full courses split.
This bit goes into an industrial area, which would have been a bit boring if not for the gorgeous weather and the on-course entertainment. We ran past a bitchin’ funk band promoting gay rights and then, right after, an evangelical Christian gospel band. I thought the organizers probably had a good laugh when they made that decision. Then we hit the pirates, who were just a bunch of middle-aged people in really awesome pirate costumes. Lots of people on the course were trying to promote their radio station or their fitness business or their particular flavour of eternal salvation, but the only thing the pirates wanted us to do was “run, ye scurvy dogs!”
I liked them.
Then I saw my girlfriend and dad for the second last time before finishing. The course split so I lost my running buddies and I went off on my own to face the second half of the course.
It started out pretty well. The course wound through a beautiful neighbourhood with lots of fans, including one group that gave me a raucous cheer, and a couple sweet conver bands. My watch still said 3:38/km and I felt good, though a little worried about my effort level. My plan was to coast through the first half, make of focused effort to stay on pace for the next quarter, then give’er for all I was worth in the last quarter.
I felt like I was a little ahead of this schedule as the mileage got into the low 20k range. The course left the cozy neighbourhood and hit another industrial stretch, this one next to a highway. There were several gentle climbs here, but it was pretty flat on the whole.
The long site lines of the highway let me spot another runner in a neon singlet ahead of me. Without consciously deciding to, I reeled him in over about 3k, riding his shoulder until we hit the hill going up to St. John’s. We passed a Scottish band here, with two dudes puffing for all they were worth on the bagpipes. Turned out they were worth quite a bit.
As we went by, I thought about saying to my companion the old definition of a gentlemen (i.e. someone who knows how to play the bagpipes but does not), but something held me back. I was worried he would just look at me with disdain. Lots of people who run about as fast as I do seem to take things very seriously. I remember reading an essay once written by a runner of about my ability who had, by winning some race or other, gotten to run at an elite-only event and hang out with the people run seriously fast. The writer reported that real elites are much less uptight than sub-elites, who are too often, let’s face it, absolute assholes. This thought held me back.
We passed a gaggle of military people in camouflage and a sign reading “YOU ARE NOW ENTERING CHECKPOINT CHARLIE” and started going up. For my medium-long and long runs in training, I’d hit this hill in Edmonton coming out of Emily Murphy Park. It’s a pretty gnarly switchback that climbs around 70m over about 500m. I’d go up the hill with about 4k to go to home, but I worried all summer it wouldn’t be enough. Turned out it was too much: the dreaded St John’s hill was a very gentle incline for about half a mile, and that was pretty much it.
I’d dropped the neon singlet runner on the climb, though not from a conscious attack or anything. As I hit the sharp right turn at the end of the bridge, I could hear footsteps and heavy breathing behind me, and I thought he had picked it up and closed the gap. These footsteps shadowed me for a little bit, and then a voice said “Ah, I was kind of getting used to that nice downhill.” I turned and saw a new face–shaved head, sunglasses, knee socks, and a singlet that said “Bowerman” down the back. I’m able to describe the back of his shirt because, shortly after this, he passed me. My legs felt heavier than I wanted them to at this point (around 26k), though my watch read 3:40/km–right on pace.
The Bowerman runner pulled away gradually. He seemed like a good pacer and I tried to keep him in sight, but I was getting tired. The course returned to a neighbourhood here, and crowds came back with it. As they cheered me on and called out my name, raising my hand to wave felt hard. Smiling was hard.
A little way past 32k, the course hit a prolonged descent on a freeway. The Bowerman runner disappeared and left me in my own private world of pain. As I went down the freeway, my hamstrings started to spasm in a way they had not for years. It reminded me of my days playing basketball, when my legs would sometimes lock up totally after a hard practice, and I would lie in bed, unable to move, and bite the pillow so I didn’t scream.
It started in my right leg, near where my hamstring meets my butt. I tried to ignore it, but every couple minutes, it would tweak again, a little stronger and a little scarier. They started in my left leg. If both legs locked up a the same time, I would collapse on the road. There was no one around. It seemed so strange: the course was jammed with people in so many places, but here, where I might need someone to pick me up and try to gather my teeth before they rolled too far away, I was on my own.
I decided that running 2:40 was better than trying to force a 2:35 and DNFing. I stopped to stretch. This helped a bit, though I could feel my body start to kind of congeal as soon as I wasn’t moving. It felt like my system was ready to shut down the second I stopped moving, so I gingerly pressed on, trying to ease back into something like race pace again.
Toward the end of the interminable descent, I almost went off the course. I only ate 10 gummy bears and about four Dixie cups of water for the race, and I think the lack of calories really started to weigh on my brain here.
Where the course passed a freeway exit, the marking wasn’t totally clear and there was no volunteer to keep me on course. I climbed about a third of the way up the exit before I noticed a group of people walking the marathon on the road down below. I asked them where the course was and they said it was down with them.
I said some bad words, swung my legs over the metal railing, and lowered myself onto the road. My legs really, really didn’t like this. I said some more bad words, stretched for a few seconds, and staggered on.
A little later, at around 37k, I hit the last climb of the race: a short ascent onto a bridge over the Wilamette. I hauled my sorry ass onto the bridge and tried to push for the finish. I passed my dad, who was taking pictures, and all I could manage was a kind of half-grimace.
Back in downtown Portland, the marathon course rejoined the half route. There were lots of people cheering and lots of people I had to pass. I brushed a couple accidentally. I saw a guy dressed as Darth Vader, riding a unicycle, and playing the bagpipes. A cyclist almost ran me over.
In my half-crazed state, I realized I had about 10 minutes to run two kilometres if I wanted to get under 2:40. I couldn’t help laughing a bit at this. Two 5:00/k! How had it come to pass that this, which usually was as easy as blowing my nose, now seemed like one of the labors of Hercules? After two previous marathons, I thought I knew how to handle the distance, but Portland taught me that I still have much to learn. I saw my girlfriend in the crowd for the last time. She cheered wildly and lifted my spirits, but all I could do was kind of raise my eyebrows and open my mouth.
I eventually staggered over the finish with 2:39:something showing on the clock. Going into this, I thought I had the strength to challenge 2:35 or maybe run 2:34:xx on a really great day. I’m proud I hung on to break 2:40 (and set a new PB after going 2:54 two years ago on a much easier course), but also a bit embarrassed that I ran such a foolish race. I went out too fast and didn’t eat or drink anywhere near enough.
My condition immediately after the race and one day later both speak to this. I was absolutely wiped out for two or three hours after the race. I was hungry but could not eat, thirsty, but could not drink, and tired, but could not sleep. I eventually had a bit of a nap and then water started to taste good again. Today I feel pretty good, with the exception of my quads, which seem to have been replaced with a cheap cardboard substitute when I wasn’t paying attention.
So I don’t think I ran as fast as I could have, but I still went faster than I’ve ever done. And I’ve got some truly world-class beer and dining to enjoy while I mull things over and think about what marathon I’ll run next year.
I wonder a bit about your preparation, but I havent run a race yet so I'm fairly unknowing. You trained your body and mind for months and months and months but didnt know the route of the marathon in detail. I dont think I could go into something like that without knowing every stone on the course from google earth or similar.
On October 06 2014 02:16 FFGenerations wrote: yo hi runners.
when i run when i exhale i do this goldfish puff out cheeks things OR i do the between-the-teeth TSSSSSSSS thing when i exhale
its like i'm incapable of/dont want to exhale quickly/fully at once, so i do it gradually to begin with then the last bit i exhale quickly and normally.
why do i do this? is it bad? im trying to exhale quickly and fully with open mouth/lung is it coz (im) a smoker so my body doesnt like fast air going out of my lungs because it can cause pain/damage? thats the only thing i could think of really
Don't think too much about breathing. What happens when you don't focus at it all should be close to ideal.
Most runners don't breathe in a 1:1 in-/exhale rythm. I usually have 2:2 rythm, that's two times breathing in and two times exhaling. It can change if I'm running at an unusual fast or slow pace. Every breath lines up with a step. But again, I don't do this consciously most of the time.
Make sure to not run too fast. Most of your runs should be run at a "conversational pace" which means you should be able to maintain a converation with someone else. Do some strides at the end of your run if that's too slow and boring.
idk its concerning coz it didnt feel logically optimal and also (altho i cudnt visually see) probably produced an insane 27 minute torrent of spittle infront of me. anyway yeah i was running way WAY too fast, for the hell of it, i usually dont do that
u know what, next time ill try a 2:2 rythyum, maybe thats what i was naturally trying to accomplish but instead produced the goldfishblow/teeth sheer effect. now you said 2:2 rytham i think i know what you mean and can try that
On October 07 2014 19:27 Yrr wrote: Nice writeup and well done race.
I wonder a bit about your preparation, but I havent run a race yet so I'm fairly unknowing. You trained your body and mind for months and months and months but didnt know the route of the marathon in detail. I dont think I could go into something like that without knowing every stone on the course from google earth or similar.
Thanks for reading! I actually looked at the course in some detail online beforehand and read as many race reports as I could find. I knew where all the major hills and bridges were. I didn't memorize every turn, true, but I think my main undoing was failing to prepare for the downhills (which, again, I knew were there) and not eating enough.
Nice write up, and some pretty damn strong running. You definitely ran 2:40 the hard way.
It sounds like you kept your effort consistent on the downs, which means the pacing was probably fine but the eccentric stress on your quads might still have played a role.
Going to be fun to see how quick you can go next go round. Obviously some time can be saved with a little more conservative early pacing (more and more the WRs are being set with a conservative opening strategy and then being able to pour some on in the latter half). Biggest thing I think though is seeing if you can solve the nutrition challenge. Anyway you look at it, taking in that little food and water is a major performance issue. Can't quantify an exact number, but I guarantee you the impacts of that are on the order of multiple minutes or more, there just isn't enough fuel for the race without taking some in while running.
I think I've asked you, but have you played with calories in liquid form? If not, it might be worth playing with because figuring that out is worth it's weight in gold and then some.
Seriously though, badass race and nice to see a respectable result come from that solid training cycle. Hopefully LuckyFool and myself will have some sweet race reports here in the coming few months to add to the party!
awesome writeup! read all of it. Makes me itching to get out and destroy my marathon in a couple weeks!
I'm totally ready for my marathon, training has gone SO much better than last year. I really don't know what to shoot for goal wise though, I have a pretty wide range of somewhere in the ballpark of 3:30-3:45. I've discussed it with a few people and they all recommend to go out conservatively and then pick it up in the second half (seems like that sort of race is what leads to the best times, but its very hard to have the discipline to do that)
My last race a few weeks ago was a 10K which I ran in 43:09, and my last long run on Saturday (22 miles) was done in 3:12:13, but that included lots of slower miles early on and I actually felt pretty good at the end. I think 3:30 is definitely possible but I'm scared of flaming out(I have a shitty history to this point in halfs/my last full). I have one more 16 miler planned on Saturday and then a 12 "dress rehearsal" run a week before to feel out my intended race pace but have already started tapering a bit.
Ran 10x400 or so today. Was hoping for the track but had to settle for an undulating little dirt section. First few quite easy, then was cruising nice around 5:10-5:20 pace under pretty good control.
Kinda feels the same as last season, feels like there is some good potential there feeling that relaxed at lower 5's on dirt...but in April I really flamed out hard, I think in part because I just didn't have the base. Hopefully with the cycling and this time actually running 30-50 mpw I'll be able to build and put together some nice times in a few months.
It sounds like you kept your effort consistent on the downs, which means the pacing was probably fine but the eccentric stress on your quads might still have played a role.
Going to be fun to see how quick you can go next go round. Obviously some time can be saved with a little more conservative early pacing (more and more the WRs are being set with a conservative opening strategy and then being able to pour some on in the latter half). Biggest thing I think though is seeing if you can solve the nutrition challenge. Anyway you look at it, taking in that little food and water is a major performance issue. Can't quantify an exact number, but I guarantee you the impacts of that are on the order of multiple minutes or more, there just isn't enough fuel for the race without taking some in while running.
I think I've asked you, but have you played with calories in liquid form? If not, it might be worth playing with because figuring that out is worth it's weight in gold and then some.
Thanks for reading–and for keeping little community running. I love the TL running thread, and I know it wouldn't exist without you.
I think you're right that nutrition is my biggest weakpoint in the marathon. I've always had problems with my GI system when engaged in athletics, and the marathon demands that you get your house in order or you cannot pass go. Portland went especially poorly: though I'd practiced eating gummy bears on long runs all summer (usually between 20-30 total), I didn't pay enough attention to where the bears would be available on the race course and in what quantity. I was surprised when they handed the bears out in cups of 5, which I think is around 45 calories, and only had them available at six or so stations along the route.
I haven't tried liquids much to date, in part because I don't like spilling sticky stuff all over myself and in part because I don't like carrying things with me when I run. Both are easier to bear than running out of glycogen, though, so I think I should give them a shot. I'm planning to experiment with some on longer treadmill runs this winter.
Regarding running downhill, do you have any insight on how to prepare for it? I'm a bit scared to do much speedwork or tempo running going down hills in training because I'm scared of destroying my knees.
On October 08 2014 03:12 L_Master wrote:
Seriously though, badass race and nice to see a respectable result come from that solid training cycle. Hopefully LuckyFool and myself will have some sweet race reports here in the coming few months to add to the party!
Coming from you, that means a lot. I know Lucky's got his marathon coming up, but I'm afraid I've lost track of your goal race(s). Can you fill me in?
On October 08 2014 08:57 LuckyFool wrote: awesome writeup! read all of it. Makes me itching to get out and destroy my marathon in a couple weeks!
I'm totally ready for my marathon, training has gone SO much better than last year. I really don't know what to shoot for goal wise though, I have a pretty wide range of somewhere in the ballpark of 3:30-3:45. I've discussed it with a few people and they all recommend to go out conservatively and then pick it up in the second half (seems like that sort of race is what leads to the best times, but its very hard to have the discipline to do that)
My last race a few weeks ago was a 10K which I ran in 43:09, and my last long run on Saturday (22 miles) was done in 3:12:13, but that included lots of slower miles early on and I actually felt pretty good at the end. I think 3:30 is definitely possible but I'm scared of flaming out(I have a shitty history to this point in halfs/my last full). I have one more 16 miler planned on Saturday and then a 12 "dress rehearsal" run a week before to feel out my intended race pace but have already started tapering a bit.
Good luck! I'm not sure the way I ran that race should do anything but warn people of of the dangers of the marathon, but I'm flattered you read it.
Anyway, I think cranking out 22 and feeling pretty good positions you well for the race itself. The taper and the excitement of the occasion will add a lot of speed to your stride on race day and tempt you to destroy yourself, so your strategy is totally the right one. Executing it will be the challenge. I think a range of goals (say, A<3:30, B=3:30, C=3:40) is a good way to make sure you run a solid race. When things went sideways for me around 28k, I could feel my "A" goal slipping away, but knowing that I had another goal that was still within grasp kept my morale up and stopped my from quitting.
On October 09 2014 00:07 Don_Julio wrote: Great race, Bonham. Congrats on that time and thanks for the report.
Thanks Don! It's tough not to think of what I would do differently next time, but luckily there is a next time on tap for me. I'm confident my PB is still ahead of me, barring bad luck.
It sounds like you kept your effort consistent on the downs, which means the pacing was probably fine but the eccentric stress on your quads might still have played a role.
Going to be fun to see how quick you can go next go round. Obviously some time can be saved with a little more conservative early pacing (more and more the WRs are being set with a conservative opening strategy and then being able to pour some on in the latter half). Biggest thing I think though is seeing if you can solve the nutrition challenge. Anyway you look at it, taking in that little food and water is a major performance issue. Can't quantify an exact number, but I guarantee you the impacts of that are on the order of multiple minutes or more, there just isn't enough fuel for the race without taking some in while running.
I think I've asked you, but have you played with calories in liquid form? If not, it might be worth playing with because figuring that out is worth it's weight in gold and then some.
Thanks for reading–and for keeping little community running. I love the TL running thread, and I know it wouldn't exist without you.
I think you're right that nutrition is my biggest weakpoint in the marathon. I've always had problems with my GI system when engaged in athletics, and the marathon demands that you get your house in order or you cannot pass go. Portland went especially poorly: though I'd practiced eating gummy bears on long runs all summer (usually between 20-30 total), I didn't pay enough attention to where the bears would be available on the race course and in what quantity. I was surprised when they handed the bears out in cups of 5, which I think is around 45 calories, and only had them available at six or so stations along the route.
I haven't tried liquids much to date, in part because I don't like spilling sticky stuff all over myself and in part because I don't like carrying things with me when I run. Both are easier to bear than running out of glycogen, though, so I think I should give them a shot. I'm planning to experiment with some on longer treadmill runs this winter.
Regarding running downhill, do you have any insight on how to prepare for it? I'm a bit scared to do much speedwork or tempo running going down hills in training because I'm scared of destroying my knees.
Seriously though, badass race and nice to see a respectable result come from that solid training cycle. Hopefully LuckyFool and myself will have some sweet race reports here in the coming few months to add to the party!
Coming from you, that means a lot. I know Lucky's got his marathon coming up, but I'm afraid I've lost track of your goal race(s). Can you fill me in?
Yea, I wouldn't want to carry them either. I know you can't do like the elites and have your prepared bottle at station, but if you had a good support crew they could hand your drinks to you (iirc this is legal). I suggest this mainly because you do seem to have significantly more trouble than usual with any solid form of calories. I'd experiment with like everything under the sun, and if nothing works perhaps try liquid fueling.
As for my races, pretty much winter 5k cycle. Not sure what my goals are, I'd like to break 18 again regardless of what happens, and if I somehow manage to find the willpower to not occasionally stuff my face with junk food I really think a 17 low or 16 high would be potentially attainable. I know I've talked about it a good deal, but you don't see truly good runners on the local with a BMI of 24.
This also depends on whether I can support my base. Last spring time things were going awesome for a month and a half...and then the wheels fell off. Coming back from injury I didn't have the support and as I transitioned into the harder training and lowered the running volume a little it was minimal enough I lost fitness. I'm hoping with significantly more miles run consistently, not to mention an awesome cycling base, I'll be okay this time around.
Letsrun's Chicago Preview: http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/10/chicago-mens-preview/ I'm curious about Keninsa. He will try to challenge Kimetto's course record of 2:03:45. I hope he does well so that we see a showdown of Bekele and Kipsang at Berlin next year to challenge the WR.
On October 10 2014 08:51 Bonham wrote: I am a total KB fanboy, but Kipchoge will be hard to beat. I hope they both break Kimetto's record and Kenny B outsprints Kipchoge in the last 800m.
Haha Kenster drops a 3:56 last mile w/53 second last 400 to win in 2:03:02. That would be something.
I don't really know what to expect, I'm slightly leaning Kenenisa but man it's hard to know. Kipchoge is excellent, but Bekele had a great debut and could easily improve off that.
On October 08 2014 08:57 LuckyFool wrote: awesome writeup! read all of it. Makes me itching to get out and destroy my marathon in a couple weeks!
I'm totally ready for my marathon, training has gone SO much better than last year. I really don't know what to shoot for goal wise though, I have a pretty wide range of somewhere in the ballpark of 3:30-3:45. I've discussed it with a few people and they all recommend to go out conservatively and then pick it up in the second half (seems like that sort of race is what leads to the best times, but its very hard to have the discipline to do that)
My last race a few weeks ago was a 10K which I ran in 43:09, and my last long run on Saturday (22 miles) was done in 3:12:13, but that included lots of slower miles early on and I actually felt pretty good at the end. I think 3:30 is definitely possible but I'm scared of flaming out(I have a shitty history to this point in halfs/my last full). I have one more 16 miler planned on Saturday and then a 12 "dress rehearsal" run a week before to feel out my intended race pace but have already started tapering a bit.
Good luck! I'm not sure the way I ran that race should do anything but warn people of of the dangers of the marathon, but I'm flattered you read it.
Anyway, I think cranking out 22 and feeling pretty good positions you well for the race itself. The taper and the excitement of the occasion will add a lot of speed to your stride on race day and tempt you to destroy yourself, so your strategy is totally the right one. Executing it will be the challenge. I think a range of goals (say, A<3:30, B=3:30, C=3:40) is a good way to make sure you run a solid race. When things went sideways for me around 28k, I could feel my "A" goal slipping away, but knowing that I had another goal that was still within grasp kept my morale up and stopped my from quitting.
When is the race?
October 26th. thanks for the advice, I think I'm going to go out at a 3:40 pace for the first half or so and then pick it up from there, that's how I've been running most of my training runs lately and that seems much safer than shooting for an A goal and potentially crashing and burning.
My marathon PR is 4:36 btw(I did not train properly at all last year lol) so I think I'll be in great shape to destroy that regardless!
is the speed of digital running machines extremely inaccurate? i just have it in my head that the speed of 1 machine (like 9.0) is different to another??
also how accurate is the heart rate monitors? the handles that you grab onto and hope give a reading but when they do you are like ehh that cant be right?
i ran real fast again last ses but still managed 35 min without stopping. (its nothing like street running i know but at least i put it on 10% incline lol and turn it to 12.0 a few times for short "sprints" which i think is actually dangerous and might kill me lol. i go all "cold sweat" sometimes but i tell myself its coz of the music)
On October 17 2014 19:21 FFGenerations wrote: is the speed of digital running machines extremely inaccurate? i just have it in my head that the speed of 1 machine (like 9.0) is different to another??
also how accurate is the heart rate monitors? the handles that you grab onto and hope give a reading but when they do you are like ehh that cant be right?
i ran real fast again last ses but still managed 35 min without stopping. (its nothing like street running i know but at least i put it on 10% incline lol and turn it to 12.0 a few times for short "sprints" which i think is actually dangerous and might kill me lol. i go all "cold sweat" sometimes but i tell myself its coz of the music)
I have no real idea but you hear it from time to time that some machines aren't correctly calibrated. I can't imagine that these handles are reliable either but again that's not my expertise. Maybe go ahead and ask your gym if their machines are 100% accurately calibrated? _____________
So, I'm heading to Magdeburg tomorrow for my big goal race at sunday. The whole thing is called Magdeburg Marathon and there is a marathon but the Half is the actual main event. I'm going to target a 4:30 min/km pace for the first 10k which would put me on track for a 1:35 finish. My recent 10k time suggests a flat 1:34 but I'll try to start a little conservatively. My biggest focus will be to maintain focus at the 1h mark which is where I started to run a little slugish in my workouts. Weather is going to be pretty good. No rain, just a little wind and temperatures in the low 20s (that's °C), which is a little warm but I actually like that. It's going to be a great weekend. I stay at my uncle's place who is running the 13k. We have a pasta party tomorrow and my grandparents and sister will come. They will also show up at the race. I don't see them a lot which makes the weekend even better. I can't wait to race. Wish me luck.
L_Master already knows about this from Strava, but I have a training question I'd like his take on and this forum is better suited to prolonged discussions than Strava, I think.
Background:
I ran a popular marked mile in my area today and attempted to PR. I clocked 4:52 on the Strava segment. I ran one second slower on the same route in June before the real VO2 and LT training portions of my marathon cycle. I was a bit disappointed in my time, though my legs didn't feel totally over Portland yet. (Or maybe I'm just making excuses; who knows.)
The segment record is 4:46. I don't think I can challenge it right now, but I'd like to take the crown sometime in the spring.
The question:
How much mile-oriented training can I do over the winter before I start to undercut my marathoning skills? Marathons are my priority races right now, and will be until I can no longer PR over the distance. I'd love to hit 4:45 or faster, but not as much as I'd love to hit 2:35 or faster.
So how many 200 and 400 repeats can I run before I take away from my marathon?
On October 18 2014 10:04 Bonham wrote: L_Master already knows about this from Strava, but I have a training question I'd like his take on and this forum is better suited to prolonged discussions than Strava, I think.
Background:
I ran a popular marked mile in my area today and attempted to PR. I clocked 4:52 on the Strava segment. I ran one second slower on the same route in June before the real VO2 and LT training portions of my marathon cycle. I was a bit disappointed in my time, though my legs didn't feel totally over Portland yet. (Or maybe I'm just making excuses; who knows.)
The segment record is 4:46. I don't think I can challenge it right now, but I'd like to take the crown sometime in the spring.
The question:
How much mile-oriented training can I do over the winter before I start to undercut my marathoning skills? Marathons are my priority races right now, and will be until I can no longer PR over the distance. I'd love to hit 4:45 or faster, but not as much as I'd love to hit 2:35 or faster.
So how many 200 and 400 repeats can I run before I take away from my marathon?
On your goal - First, I don't think 4:45 is unattainable by any means even considering that 7 seconds in the mile is no joke at that pace. You have at least 2-4 low hanging seconds as you described your pacing as not ideal, and said your legs still didn't feel back to normal. Depending on just how bad "not good" is, there is a couple seconds to a significant number of seconds to shave from that. Then consider the fact that you haven't run a mile all out in who knows how long. From having done it to myself, hearing elite guys, and the local college studs you don't just jump in a mile and run it particularly well. It takes time to get that feel of the race back, handle the massive lactate levels, and learn how to relax when running at what might as well be breakneck speed comparatively. Even guys coming off 5k training struggle with their first mile because it's just way faster than the work they've been doing.
If you do something like 1 or 2 more mile time trials, 1 or 2 workouts of 200/400 w/long recovery at 800 to mile pace, and 2 workouts of the old staple 10x400 @ 70 sec pace w/60s jog recovery there is no way in hell you don't run 4:45 or better, though I'd be pretty surprised if you went quicker than 4:40
On mile training impacting M training - I think a big part of that depends on timing. If you're 6 or 9 months out from your next race I don't really think it's going to hurt to throw in some faster stuff. Where I think it might hurt is if you are doing those workouts in marathon specific training, as then you're developing your engine in a way that isn't conductive to running a good marathon and at the expense of your more important marathon specific workouts.
While they may not do mile training most of the elite guys do take some time to work on 10k speed, which can include some faster work (mile-5k pace) and at least several notable coaches (Canova, Hudson, etc.) incorporate some true raw speed training in the form of hill sprints of 5-10 sec at maximal sprint effort. There isn't research yet about them, but at least anecdotally some neuromuscular work seems to be valuable for marathoners.
Bottom line is that I don't think a little bit of light mile training is going to hurt you 6+ months out from another marathon. It might even help by making some of the work feel a little smoother and increasing economy. My understanding as I see it both from paying careful attention to the training of the elite guys, and hearing what the top marathon coaches like Canova and others have to say is that a huge part of successful marathon training is developing an entirely different engine than a track runner...there is a reason track runners don't debut with immediate success in the marathon, and that's because that efficient fat burning engine takes a few years to make. A complete training cycle would start to take away from that, and shift back toward the more turbo charged track engine. A few workouts workouts im the "offseason" is not going to impact that, and will definitely help your 1500 ability.
I wouldn't recommend a full training cycle (obviously) as it certainly seems to be one of the keys to becoming a good marathoner is
Thanks for the prompt response! Your comment about getting used to racing a mile makes a lot of sense to me. The amount of lactic acid in my body over the last 600m yesterday felt very novel.
Two things might hold me back from working as much on this as I'd like over the winter: first, when the snow flies, running a road mile at PR speed is going to be impossible. Second, finding somewhere to do fast 200s and 400s indoors over the winter is a problem I haven't quite solved. There's a 24-hour gym with treadmills fast enough for LT workouts about three blocks from my place, but most of the indoor tracks in Edmonton are terrible.
But I should still have time to try once or twice more before it gets cold. I'll definitely post my time here if and when i do.
What a race and what an aftermath of the race. tl;dr: 1:36:20, collapsed at the finish line, needed help by the first aid guys, puked multiple times, I'm fine now.
I felt a little under the weather two days before the half marathon. I didn't want to admit it but it definitely put my goal in jeopardy. It wasn't anything serious, just more mucus than usual in my nose and a sore throat. I also had to hitch-hike the 300km to Magdeburg because the train dirvers were on strike and my train got cancelled. I hitch-hike quite often but it's a little inconvenient if you have the biggest race of the year at the next day. The trip ended up well, my aunt and uncle picked me up from the motorway and we got our bibs from the expo. We later met with my grandparents and my sister at my uncle's place and had a great evening. I woke up 2,5 hours before the start, had my coffee, a bun and a banana + water. Pooping went well and the sore throat was gone. I also got rid of any mucus with intenisve nose blowing. I still didn't know if my breathing would affected, only the race would show. Warmed-up a little with dynamic stretching, tip-toes, buttkicks and the likes. We had a blue sky, light wind and temperatures in the high teens (got up to about 22°C when I finished). Start was at 10am. I wished good luck to my uncle who would race the 13k (both races started at the same time but his corral was further back) and got to my starting spot. I was more nervous than I've ever been before an exam. A goal: sub 1:35, B goal about 1:36 and C being happy with my effort. The first km started out well. We ran over a couple of bridges crossing the Elbe river. Watch said exactly 4:30 when I ran passed the 1 km sign so I was exactly on pace. We entered the city centre of Magdeburg and with a bigger crowd and all the adrenaline I got faster without noticing. At the 4k mark I was 1 minute ahead of schedule so I probably ran at 10k pace from km 1 to 4. Took two sips of water at the first aid station. I slowed down a little and got into a rythm afterwards. I stayed a minute ahead so was at 4:30 pace again. The illness didn't affect my breathing noticeably. The second quarter of a Half Marathon is the most enjoyable imo. The field spreads out and you get into your rythm, you aren't tired yet, while maintaining a pace that feels like racing. The course was beautiful there running in Magdeburg's city park and alongside the Elbe river. Two sips of sweet tea at the next aid station and 9k done I felt pretty good. Still a minute ahead of schedule and a good support by the crowd. At half way the 13k runners left us and I knew the real race was just about to start. When I checked the time at the 12k mark I noticed that I slowed down a little and that I got a little tired. I managed to find the backside of two runners who I needed to maintain pace and grind out the next kilometres. There was another aid station at about 14k. I wanted cola but the girl who handed it out hid behind the tea guy so I had to take water again. I think I was in need for some sugar at this point but I didn't want to slow down, lose focus and more importantly the backs of my "pacers". At this point I started to lose quite some time and I knew that my goal was slowly crumbling away. There was no way to run faster though. I ran at an extremely high effort and I got more tired with every step. At 16k I was behind 1:35:00 for the first time and my "pacers" split up. One got faster the other one slowed down so I had to find my own rythm again. I still passed runners slower than me and go passed by only a few ones. I found a group of about half a dozen 30 m ahead of me who stayed together. I didn't get any closer for a long time but didn't lose contact either. I recognized one guy who passed me at the 7k mark and I knew I wanted to beat him (I don't know if I did). I felt like qutting at the 18k mark but I know that feeling from previous races and I know how to push through. This is where you start running along a broad and never ending boulevard almost to the finish. I got really light-headed at this point not being able to think straight, I also lost control over my spittle. I knew that 1:35:00 was out of reach but I had the willpower to leave everything on the road that I had. With only 1,5k left you have to run over a pedestrians bridge. It's a 10m climb and the most evil thing ever. I somehow managed to get to the top and didn't allow my legs to relax at the downhill part. With about 500m to go I saw my aunt again and she told me later that I looked terrible. I managed to pass a few more runners (I think) and sprinted towards the finish line. Passing the line my watch said 1:36:20 but I was too exhausted to feel bad or good about it. I immediately went to the side and sat down. A paramedic came up to me asking if everything's ok. I answered that I just need a moment. Well, a minute later I tried to get up and noticed that that's not an option so I asked the medic for help. Two people helped me getting to the first aid station and I laid down. They measured my HR and blood pressure and gave me some water. I told them that I'm well trained and that I usually feel fine after races but that I've been a little ill the last few day. The medic answered that a collapse like this can happen even with a minor viral infection if you're active at maximum effort. He constantly checked my HR and gave me some water and cola. This is where I had to puke for the first time. I puked out everything. A transparent, greenish liquid. Bon appetit. Got better quickly afterwards but I spent about 30 minutes with the friendly paramedics (10/10 would collapse again). Met up with my uncle (he PR'ed) and got some tasty nonalcoholic beer. We drove to my grandparents and had dinner with them and my sister. Good, classic German cuisine (without the meat for me). I really enjoyed it even after puking my guts out an hour earlier. There were still no trains at sunday so my plan was to hitch-hike again. No problem usually but as soon as I got into my aunts car I got sick again. She had to pull over and most of my grandma's dinner hit the road. I decided to stay in Magdeburg for another night and take the train in the morning. I had to skip class today but the strike and basicallybeing ill are a good excuse. My legs feel pretty good today. I feel like I could go for an easy 10k run today if I didn't know better. I'm happy with the 1:36:20 after all. I left anything I had out there (literally). No way I could have run any faster. I'm not certain but I guess I would have met my A goal without the viral infection. It's 6 minutes faster than last year. No pics online yet but I probably looked shitty anyways. Now it's time for rest. I'll set new goals when I'm eager to run again.
btw Bonham would have won the full (2:44) and half (1:17) easily.
L_Master already knows about this from Strava, but I have a training question I'd like his take on and this forum is better suited to prolonged discussions than Strava, I think.
Background:
I ran a popular marked mile in my area today and attempted to PR. I clocked 4:52 on the Strava segment. I ran one second slower on the same route in June before the real VO2 and LT training portions of my marathon cycle. I was a bit disappointed in my time, though my legs didn't feel totally over Portland yet. (Or maybe I'm just making excuses; who knows.)
The segment record is 4:46. I don't think I can challenge it right now, but I'd like to take the crown sometime in the spring.
The question:
How much mile-oriented training can I do over the winter before I start to undercut my marathoning skills? Marathons are my priority races right now, and will be until I can no longer PR over the distance. I'd love to hit 4:45 or faster, but not as much as I'd love to hit 2:35 or faster.
So how many 200 and 400 repeats can I run before I take away from my marathon?
On your goal - First, I don't think 4:45 is unattainable by any means even considering that 7 seconds in the mile is no joke at that pace.
You have at least 2-4 low hanging seconds as you described your pacing as not ideal, and said your legs still didn't feel back to normal. + Show Spoiler +
Depending on just how bad "not good" is, there is a couple seconds to a significant number of seconds to shave from that. Then consider the fact that you haven't run a mile all out in who knows how long. From having done it to myself, hearing elite guys, and the local college studs you don't just jump in a mile and run it particularly well. It takes time to get that feel of the race back, handle the massive lactate levels, and learn how to relax when running at what might as well be breakneck speed comparatively. Even guys coming off 5k training struggle with their first mile because it's just way faster than the work they've been doing.
If you do something like 1 or 2 more mile time trials, 1 or 2 workouts of 200/400 w/long recovery at 800 to mile pace, and 2 workouts of the old staple 10x400 @ 70 sec pace w/60s jog recovery there is no way in hell you don't run 4:45 or better, though I'd be pretty surprised if you went quicker than 4:40
On mile training impacting M training - I think a big part of that depends on timing. If you're 6 or 9 months out from your next race I don't really think it's going to hurt to throw in some faster stuff. Where I think it might hurt is if you are doing those workouts in marathon specific training, as then you're developing your engine in a way that isn't conductive to running a good marathon and at the expense of your more important marathon specific workouts.
While they may not do mile training most of the elite guys do take some time to work on 10k speed, which can include some faster work (mile-5k pace) and at least several notable coaches (Canova, Hudson, etc.) incorporate some true raw speed training in the form of hill sprints of 5-10 sec at maximal sprint effort. There isn't research yet about them, but at least anecdotally some neuromuscular work seems to be valuable for marathoners.
Bottom line is that I don't think a little bit of light mile training is going to hurt you 6+ months out from another marathon. It might even help by making some of the work feel a little smoother and increasing economy. My understanding as I see it both from paying careful attention to the training of the elite guys, and hearing what the top marathon coaches like Canova and others have to say is that a huge part of successful marathon training is developing an entirely different engine than a track runner...there is a reason track runners don't debut with immediate success in the marathon, and that's because that efficient fat burning engine takes a few years to make. A complete training cycle would start to take away from that, and shift back toward the more turbo charged track engine. A few workouts workouts im the "offseason" is not going to impact that, and will definitely help your 1500 ability.
I wouldn't recommend a full training cycle (obviously) as it certainly seems to be one of the keys to becoming a good marathoner is
Just a really quick 2 cents: what shoes were you wearing for the attempt? Lighter flats can make a serious impact on your time, too. A bit of a "low" way to get those few seconds shaved off, but something worth considering since you are so frickin close to it.
EDIT: Just looked on Strava, and apparently you were running in speedy shoes. L_Master's comments are those to actually take to heart, then. I, too, don't think having a bit of speed work mixed in will hurt your overall marathon plans - but then again I also haven't dedicated training to a marathon ever (too much time!!!).
On October 20 2014 21:07 Don_Julio wrote: What a race and what an aftermath of the race. tl;dr: 1:36:20, collapsed at the finish line, needed help by the first aid guys, puked multiple times, I'm fine now.
I felt a little under the weather two days before the half marathon. I didn't want to admit it but it definitely put my goal in jeopardy. It wasn't anything serious, just more mucus than usual in my nose and a sore throat. I also had to hitch-hike the 300km to Magdeburg because the train dirvers were on strike and my train got cancelled. I hitch-hike quite often but it's a little inconvenient if you have the biggest race of the year at the next day. The trip ended up well, my aunt and uncle picked me up from the motorway and we got our bibs from the expo. We later met with my grandparents and my sister at my uncle's place and had a great evening. I woke up 2,5 hours before the start, had my coffee, a bun and a banana + water. Pooping went well and the sore throat was gone. I also got rid of any mucus with intenisve nose blowing. I still didn't know if my breathing would affected, only the race would show. Warmed-up a little with dynamic stretching, tip-toes, buttkicks and the likes. We had a blue sky, light wind and temperatures in the high teens (got up to about 22°C when I finished). Start was at 10am. I wished good luck to my uncle who would race the 13k (both races started at the same time but his corral was further back) and got to my starting spot. I was more nervous than I've ever been before an exam. A goal: sub 1:35, B goal about 1:36 and C being happy with my effort. The first km started out well. We ran over a couple of bridges crossing the Elbe river. Watch said exactly 4:30 when I ran passed the 1 km sign so I was exactly on pace. We entered the city centre of Magdeburg and with a bigger crowd and all the adrenaline I got faster without noticing. At the 4k mark I was 1 minute ahead of schedule so I probably ran at 10k pace from km 1 to 4. Took two sips of water at the first aid station. I slowed down a little and got into a rythm afterwards. I stayed a minute ahead so was at 4:30 pace again. The illness didn't affect my breathing noticeably. The second quarter of a Half Marathon is the most enjoyable imo. The field spreads out and you get into your rythm, you aren't tired yet, while maintaining a pace that feels like racing. The course was beautiful there running in Magdeburg's city park and alongside the Elbe river. Two sips of sweet tea at the next aid station and 9k done I felt pretty good. Still a minute ahead of schedule and a good support by the crowd. At half way the 13k runners left us and I knew the real race was just about to start. When I checked the time at the 12k mark I noticed that I slowed down a little and that I got a little tired. I managed to find the backside of two runners who I needed to maintain pace and grind out the next kilometres. There was another aid station at about 14k. I wanted cola but the girl who handed it out hid behind the tea guy so I had to take water again. I think I was in need for some sugar at this point but I didn't want to slow down, lose focus and more importantly the backs of my "pacers". At this point I started to lose quite some time and I knew that my goal was slowly crumbling away. There was no way to run faster though. I ran at an extremely high effort and I got more tired with every step. At 16k I was behind 1:35:00 for the first time and my "pacers" split up. One got faster the other one slowed down so I had to find my own rythm again. I still passed runners slower than me and go passed by only a few ones. I found a group of about half a dozen 30 m ahead of me who stayed together. I didn't get any closer for a long time but didn't lose contact either. I recognized one guy who passed me at the 7k mark and I knew I wanted to beat him (I don't know if I did). I felt like qutting at the 18k mark but I know that feeling from previous races and I know how to push through. This is where you start running along a broad and never ending boulevard almost to the finish. I got really light-headed at this point not being able to think straight, I also lost control over my spittle. I knew that 1:35:00 was out of reach but I had the willpower to leave everything on the road that I had. With only 1,5k left you have to run over a pedestrians bridge. It's a 10m climb and the most evil thing ever. I somehow managed to get to the top and didn't allow my legs to relax at the downhill part. With about 500m to go I saw my aunt again and she told me later that I looked terrible. I managed to pass a few more runners (I think) and sprinted towards the finish line. Passing the line my watch said 1:36:20 but I was too exhausted to feel bad or good about it. I immediately went to the side and sat down. A paramedic came up to me asking if everything's ok. I answered that I just need a moment. Well, a minute later I tried to get up and noticed that that's not an option so I asked the medic for help. Two people helped me getting to the first aid station and I laid down. They measured my HR and blood pressure and gave me some water. I told them that I'm well trained and that I usually feel fine after races but that I've been a little ill the last few day. The medic answered that a collapse like this can happen even with a minor viral infection if you're active at maximum effort. He constantly checked my HR and gave me some water and cola. This is where I had to puke for the first time. I puked out everything. A transparent, greenish liquid. Bon appetit. Got better quickly afterwards but I spent about 30 minutes with the friendly paramedics (10/10 would collapse again). Met up with my uncle (he PR'ed) and got some tasty nonalcoholic beer. We drove to my grandparents and had dinner with them and my sister. Good, classic German cuisine (without the meat for me). I really enjoyed it even after puking my guts out an hour earlier. There were still no trains at sunday so my plan was to hitch-hike again. No problem usually but as soon as I got into my aunts car I got sick again. She had to pull over and most of my grandma's dinner hit the road. I decided to stay in Magdeburg for another night and take the train in the morning. I had to skip class today but the strike and basicallybeing ill are a good excuse. My legs feel pretty good today. I feel like I could go for an easy 10k run today if I didn't know better. I'm happy with the 1:36:20 after all. I left anything I had out there (literally). No way I could have run any faster. I'm not certain but I guess I would have met my A goal without the viral infection. It's 6 minutes faster than last year. No pics online yet but I probably looked shitty anyways. Now it's time for rest. I'll set new goals when I'm eager to run again.
btw Bonham would have won the full (2:44) and half (1:17) easily.
Slow. Clap. That sounds like an ordeal but you pushed through and came very, very close to the goal time. Rest up, run better soon!
On October 20 2014 21:07 Don_Julio wrote: What a race and what an aftermath of the race. tl;dr: 1:36:20, collapsed at the finish line, needed help by the first aid guys, puked multiple times, I'm fine now.
I felt a little under the weather two days before the half marathon. I didn't want to admit it but it definitely put my goal in jeopardy. It wasn't anything serious, just more mucus than usual in my nose and a sore throat. I also had to hitch-hike the 300km to Magdeburg because the train dirvers were on strike and my train got cancelled. I hitch-hike quite often but it's a little inconvenient if you have the biggest race of the year at the next day. The trip ended up well, my aunt and uncle picked me up from the motorway and we got our bibs from the expo. We later met with my grandparents and my sister at my uncle's place and had a great evening. I woke up 2,5 hours before the start, had my coffee, a bun and a banana + water. Pooping went well and the sore throat was gone. I also got rid of any mucus with intenisve nose blowing. I still didn't know if my breathing would affected, only the race would show. Warmed-up a little with dynamic stretching, tip-toes, buttkicks and the likes. We had a blue sky, light wind and temperatures in the high teens (got up to about 22°C when I finished). Start was at 10am. I wished good luck to my uncle who would race the 13k (both races started at the same time but his corral was further back) and got to my starting spot. I was more nervous than I've ever been before an exam. A goal: sub 1:35, B goal about 1:36 and C being happy with my effort. The first km started out well. We ran over a couple of bridges crossing the Elbe river. Watch said exactly 4:30 when I ran passed the 1 km sign so I was exactly on pace. We entered the city centre of Magdeburg and with a bigger crowd and all the adrenaline I got faster without noticing. At the 4k mark I was 1 minute ahead of schedule so I probably ran at 10k pace from km 1 to 4. Took two sips of water at the first aid station. I slowed down a little and got into a rythm afterwards. I stayed a minute ahead so was at 4:30 pace again. The illness didn't affect my breathing noticeably. The second quarter of a Half Marathon is the most enjoyable imo. The field spreads out and you get into your rythm, you aren't tired yet, while maintaining a pace that feels like racing. The course was beautiful there running in Magdeburg's city park and alongside the Elbe river. Two sips of sweet tea at the next aid station and 9k done I felt pretty good. Still a minute ahead of schedule and a good support by the crowd. At half way the 13k runners left us and I knew the real race was just about to start. When I checked the time at the 12k mark I noticed that I slowed down a little and that I got a little tired. I managed to find the backside of two runners who I needed to maintain pace and grind out the next kilometres. There was another aid station at about 14k. I wanted cola but the girl who handed it out hid behind the tea guy so I had to take water again. I think I was in need for some sugar at this point but I didn't want to slow down, lose focus and more importantly the backs of my "pacers". At this point I started to lose quite some time and I knew that my goal was slowly crumbling away. There was no way to run faster though. I ran at an extremely high effort and I got more tired with every step. At 16k I was behind 1:35:00 for the first time and my "pacers" split up. One got faster the other one slowed down so I had to find my own rythm again. I still passed runners slower than me and go passed by only a few ones. I found a group of about half a dozen 30 m ahead of me who stayed together. I didn't get any closer for a long time but didn't lose contact either. I recognized one guy who passed me at the 7k mark and I knew I wanted to beat him (I don't know if I did). I felt like qutting at the 18k mark but I know that feeling from previous races and I know how to push through. This is where you start running along a broad and never ending boulevard almost to the finish. I got really light-headed at this point not being able to think straight, I also lost control over my spittle. I knew that 1:35:00 was out of reach but I had the willpower to leave everything on the road that I had. With only 1,5k left you have to run over a pedestrians bridge. It's a 10m climb and the most evil thing ever. I somehow managed to get to the top and didn't allow my legs to relax at the downhill part. With about 500m to go I saw my aunt again and she told me later that I looked terrible. I managed to pass a few more runners (I think) and sprinted towards the finish line. Passing the line my watch said 1:36:20 but I was too exhausted to feel bad or good about it. I immediately went to the side and sat down. A paramedic came up to me asking if everything's ok. I answered that I just need a moment. Well, a minute later I tried to get up and noticed that that's not an option so I asked the medic for help. Two people helped me getting to the first aid station and I laid down. They measured my HR and blood pressure and gave me some water. I told them that I'm well trained and that I usually feel fine after races but that I've been a little ill the last few day. The medic answered that a collapse like this can happen even with a minor viral infection if you're active at maximum effort. He constantly checked my HR and gave me some water and cola. This is where I had to puke for the first time. I puked out everything. A transparent, greenish liquid. Bon appetit. Got better quickly afterwards but I spent about 30 minutes with the friendly paramedics (10/10 would collapse again). Met up with my uncle (he PR'ed) and got some tasty nonalcoholic beer. We drove to my grandparents and had dinner with them and my sister. Good, classic German cuisine (without the meat for me). I really enjoyed it even after puking my guts out an hour earlier. There were still no trains at sunday so my plan was to hitch-hike again. No problem usually but as soon as I got into my aunts car I got sick again. She had to pull over and most of my grandma's dinner hit the road. I decided to stay in Magdeburg for another night and take the train in the morning. I had to skip class today but the strike and basicallybeing ill are a good excuse. My legs feel pretty good today. I feel like I could go for an easy 10k run today if I didn't know better. I'm happy with the 1:36:20 after all. I left anything I had out there (literally). No way I could have run any faster. I'm not certain but I guess I would have met my A goal without the viral infection. It's 6 minutes faster than last year. No pics online yet but I probably looked shitty anyways. Now it's time for rest. I'll set new goals when I'm eager to run again.
btw Bonham would have won the full (2:44) and half (1:17) easily.
Slow. Clap. That sounds like an ordeal but you pushed through and came very, very close to the goal time. Rest up, run better soon!
Yeah. That wasn't the most enjoyable of my career.
Yea Don Julio that's a pretty awesome effort all things considered. I've never had close to that sort of feeling (left everything out there) at the end of a race longer than a mile. Too much of a wuss.
Time was really quite close to your goal, and it's hard to say how much that virus effected you, but it's almost certain it took at least the edge of your spark. What's next for you (besides recovery )?
As for myself, the weather just refuses to turn to winter, so I've still been cycling a pretty good amount. I'm in an annoying situation where I can't really double without getting up super early because classes are spaces out just right so that I don't have time to get in a run between the classes, and then after my main block of time I work and it's dark after.
Either way the weather should turn at some point and I'll be fully back to running.
Been thinking about my eating a good bit, and at this point I'm pretty confident that I have a legitimate sugar addiction. Which means pretty much the only option is to try and go pure abstinence from any and all foods containing sugar. Not going to try and cut calories during this time though, as doing so would only make me more hungry and increase cravings worse. This has been an issue for a long time now, and I'm still trying to figure out the fix for it. Hopefully this ends up being the solution.
5K race this Saturday, it's a trail race, though not super hilly (probably 150 ft of elevation change). A goal is sub 20:00, B goal would be 20:30. Course for me tends to run about 20s per mile slower than flatter paved stuff, so sub 20 ought to indicate roughly sub 19 shape.
My marathon is on Sunday! I'm ready...although I have had quite an extreme taper, I've literally only run like 3 times in the past week and a half...had a crazy 50+ hour work week last week and some other unexpected stuff came up which derailed a few runs, but overall I don't think it'll really hurt me much. the hay is in the barn man...had such a great summer training, injury free pretty much all summer, smashed my 22 miler a couple weeks ago...I think an A goal of 3:35 is within reach, we'll see how I feel on race day. I plan on going out t he first half around 3:45 or 3:40 pace and then try and pick it up in the second half. Can't wait!! Should be great weather too.
On October 23 2014 13:29 LuckyFool wrote: My marathon is on Sunday! I'm ready...although I have had quite an extreme taper, I've literally only run like 3 times in the past week and a half...had a crazy 50+ hour work week last week and some other unexpected stuff came up which derailed a few runs, but overall I don't think it'll really hurt me much. the hay is in the barn man...had such a great summer training, injury free pretty much all summer, smashed my 22 miler a couple weeks ago...I think an A goal of 3:35 is within reach, we'll see how I feel on race day. I plan on going out t he first half around 3:45 or 3:40 pace and then try and pick it up in the second half. Can't wait!! Should be great weather too.
Please do this. If you start fast the first couple miles because of adrenaline there is NOTHING wrong with slowly down by the corresponding amount over the next few miles. Worst case of going to easy is you leave perhaps a few minutes on the course, but if you're running well those can usually be made up in the last 10k if you've kept it controlled nicely. Go out fast and if it isn't your day you can miss your goal by 10, 20 or even 30+ minutes...plus you end the whole last part of the race feeling like shit.
On October 23 2014 10:44 L_Master wrote: Yea Don Julio that's a pretty awesome effort all things considered. I've never had close to that sort of feeling (left everything out there) at the end of a race longer than a mile. Too much of a wuss.
Time was really quite close to your goal, and it's hard to say how much that virus effected you, but it's almost certain it took at least the edge of your spark. What's next for you (besides recovery )?
I plan to increase my weekly mileage to 70-80k and move up to 5-6 days. That alone should take about 12 weeks if I do it with the "10%-rule". I'm still undecided about races, yet. I might use the increased mileage to run this 31k trail race which I finished but was totally unprepared for. I think I'll focus on the 10k next year though. I'm contemplating to join a running club after I've moved next month to have decently structured workouts and get a little more in touch with the local running community.
Been thinking about my eating a good bit, and at this point I'm pretty confident that I have a legitimate sugar addiction. Which means pretty much the only option is to try and go pure abstinence from any and all foods containing sugar. Not going to try and cut calories during this time though, as doing so would only make me more hungry and increase cravings worse. This has been an issue for a long time now, and I'm still trying to figure out the fix for it. Hopefully this ends up being the solution.
5K race this Saturday, it's a trail race, though not super hilly (probably 150 ft of elevation change). A goal is sub 20:00, B goal would be 20:30. Course for me tends to run about 20s per mile slower than flatter paved stuff, so sub 20 ought to indicate roughly sub 19 shape.
Addiction is a strong word How are you so certain? Good luck for saturday.
On October 23 2014 13:29 LuckyFool wrote: My marathon is on Sunday! I'm ready...although I have had quite an extreme taper, I've literally only run like 3 times in the past week and a half...had a crazy 50+ hour work week last week and some other unexpected stuff came up which derailed a few runs, but overall I don't think it'll really hurt me much. the hay is in the barn man...had such a great summer training, injury free pretty much all summer, smashed my 22 miler a couple weeks ago...I think an A goal of 3:35 is within reach, we'll see how I feel on race day. I plan on going out t he first half around 3:45 or 3:40 pace and then try and pick it up in the second half. Can't wait!! Should be great weather too.
Haven't run a marathon yet so I have no advice. I can only wish you the best of luck. Can't wait for the race report. Rise and shine!
Addiction is a strong word How are you so certain? Good luck for saturday.
A valid question. Combination of a few things.
1) I spend a lot of time thinking about food, probably at least 30-120 min each day thinking about what I'm going to eat next, or even the next day 2) Strong cravings, there have been times where I went back to eat more sugary stuff while full, then came back for more another hour after that when I was already completely stuffed. Plenty of these times, even while actively thinking I didn't want to eat more, I would still go and eat a ton of food (always sugary/fatty/salty). 3) I inevitably cannot maintain any sort of diet, there is always a time I have a massive binge that I more or less cannot seem to stop myself from doing. Then after that there is usually a craving for more so the binging cycle starts anew. 4) When I start getting these cravings (which can happen when totally full), it becomes literally all that I can think about. I cannot take my mind off of it, to the extent I've actually entered a game of BW and been unable to focus on the game because I was busy thinking about how badly I wanted some Oreos, a PB&J, some sun chips, and a soda
Good luck LuckyFool! I hope it goes really well for you. As you say, your training has put you in a great place. Now it's time to reap the reward!
Don_Julio: thanks for a sweet race report. I'm sorry things didn't go quite the way you wanted, but I think you can still be proud of a really gutsy performance–in more ways than one, I suppose. I've never actually puked at a race, though several times I've felt like it on various training runs. My GI woes mostly move in the other direction, if you follow me. Anyway, was it a new PR?
Anyway, running in Magdeburg sounds like lots of fun, though I'm skeptical that there's such a thing as tasty alcohol-free beer. I'll have to hop across the pond sometime and win one of those races! :p
Creepy Crawl 5k today, respectable time for where I'm at of 20:13. Probably a little too fast first half mile in about 2:49, sounds suicidal at first glance but the course is downhill the first 2k and there was probably a 5-10mph breeze going out as well. Going back obviously was tougher being uphill and into a light breeze, started to struggle around 3k in but held it together passably to finish in low 20s
Legs were definitely unprepared for this. They got fatigued and stiff really quick, wasn't able to feel fluid. Probably what happens when you've only been doing light running 3-4 times a week with no workouts and the rest cycling. It's good fitness though for being 90% cycling based. Should be something I can build on here once the weather gets colder and I actually start running training in full force.
Pretty sure he is East Coast, so EST. Tried looking at their tracking services but it's pretty dumb. Not only do you have to register an account, but you can't get tracking on the site. You have to sign up and have them send you tracking updates via Facebook, twitter, phone, or email. Weak.
Hopefully he is killing it out there (might be finished by now actually)
Creepy Crawl 5k today, respectable time for where I'm at of 20:13. Probably a little too fast first half mile in about 2:49, sounds suicidal at first glance but the course is downhill the first 2k and there was probably a 5-10mph breeze going out as well. Going back obviously was tougher being uphill and into a light breeze, started to struggle around 3k in but held it together passably to finish in low 20s
Legs were definitely unprepared for this. They got fatigued and stiff really quick, wasn't able to feel fluid. Probably what happens when you've only been doing light running 3-4 times a week with no workouts and the rest cycling. It's good fitness though for being 90% cycling based. Should be something I can build on here once the weather gets colder and I actually start running training in full force.
Feels good to read about you racing again.
On October 24 2014 22:51 Bonham wrote: Anyway, was it a new PR?
PR'ed by six minutes but I'm a way better runner than last year so setting a PR was just a formality.
Rolled an ankle halfway through when somebody dove in front of me at a water spot. I cut hard to the right and somehow slipped on a couple cups (how....) I have no idea how I still finished, entire second half was a nightmare, wasnt much pain but mentally it extremely difficult. would have been smarter probably to just take a dnf but I ended up just run/walked most of the second half, it was incredibly brutal. I learned alot today so it wasn't all bad, but definetly a big dissapointment! I'll write up a full recap later.
i did very slightly set a PR, but nowhere near what I was capable of. Running is such an unforgiving and cruel sport! So many things can go wrong on any given day, I'm going to just focus on taking the positives from today and not look back.
Yeah it seems to be, I've been icing it and its not swelling (yet) so it might have just been a strain and not a sprain or any ligament damage. I'm still going to have it checked out tomorrow probably.
On October 27 2014 07:35 LuckyFool wrote: Yeah it seems to be, I've been icing it and its not swelling (yet) so it might have just been a strain and not a sprain or any ligament damage. I'm still going to have it checked out tomorrow probably.
Yea, that really sucks. Shit happens, but that's still pretty unlucky.
The one "good" thing about this is that it doesn't leave you with any major doubts in regards to your fitness or preparation. Obviously getting a good time under your name will have to wait, but you have built up a sizeable aerobic base that you can either translate into some nice spring racing at 5/10k to work on speed for a fall marathon, or just keep adding to it for another crack at the marathon in the spring.
Yeah for sure, I am very confident in what I did this training cycle and overall have a positive outlook moving forward.
Right now I don't even want to THINK about another marathon haha. I'm running a half in Philly in a month, more for fun with a friend than going for an all out crazy time goal, but we'll see. weather conditions will be really iffy too (late November in Philly, could be running in a blizzard for all I know...)
wrote a rather lengthy blog on the race today: LINK
Aw, man, that's a bummer. The marathon is the cruellest of the mainstream race distances. I think you should be proud of gutting out a whole half marathon on a bum ankle. I don't think I could do that. It sounds like you're taking it really well, too, so I'm sure it won't be long before you return to the marathon and crush it.
Yeah, I'm probably done with marathon attempts for a while. I'm realizing that I just have much more fun training and running shorter distances.
Initially at the beginning of this year I was going to focus more on bringing my mile/5K time down anyway, but ended up sneaking a spot into the marathon and decided to go for it again not really focusing on 5K stuff. I'll have freedom to do whatever I want now which is nice.
I learned so much this year (basically my 2nd full year running) and I feel I've improved alot even though it hasn't really shown in my times. (still one more race left this year tho) I'm really glad I had an injury free training cycle, and still have a strong fitness base as a result which I'm going to try to keep through the winter like L_Master mentioned. Last year I kinda quit for 3 months after my marathon from Nov-Jan and lost that base which I had to re-train which slowed down my progress alot at the beginning of the year.
NYC marathon is gonna be tough conditions tomorrow, wind gusts up to 45MPH...hoping Meb does well, and any other top Americans, I think Ryan Veil is supposed to be in really good shape.
Didn't get to watch, but read the thread on LRC. Takaways appeared to be
1)ESPN, like every other broadcaster, is incompetent at showing running races 2)Don't elbow Wilson Kipsang or he will glare you into submission 3)What is up with Mutai?
As for myself, decided to go ahead and take my bi-annual 2 weeks of complete downtime. Didn't really have a set focus for what I wanted to train for, and my body was telling me it's time anyway.
Now gotta figure out what I want to do training wise. I could train for winter races, but dunno how enthusiastic I am for those. If not that I may just work on my diet/eating for a few months while doing non-stressful mileage + sprint work, then start actual training targeting a good spring 5k.
Started doing my c25k again, and I'm getting pain in my lower back.
My best guess is that it's caused by sitting all day (office job) giving me weak abs -> when I run I concentrate on keeping my trunk tight by tightening my abs -> causes my back muscles to fatigue. Also there is no pain the next day, just during and very shortly after which makes me think it's just muscle exhaustion.
Also could it be something to do with me rotating my torso too much? Or not enough?
Lately I've developed pain on the side of my left knee. Upon consulting Google it seems to be IT Band Syndrome, and the home treatment is foam rolling and hip strengthening. I've been foam rolling it, but I'm at a loss for how I can do hip strengthening exercises. Should I increment by reps to strengthen my hips? Or should I use resistance? And if so, how do I increment resistance?
I've rested for more than two weeks at a time and when I lace up my shoes and start running again it'll hurt afterwards. I'm afraid that it's never going to go away.
On November 11 2014 14:39 XXGeneration wrote: Lately I've developed pain on the side of my left knee. Upon consulting Google it seems to be IT Band Syndrome, and the home treatment is foam rolling and hip strengthening. I've been foam rolling it, but I'm at a loss for how I can do hip strengthening exercises. Should I increment by reps to strengthen my hips? Or should I use resistance? And if so, how do I increment resistance?
I've rested for more than two weeks at a time and when I lace up my shoes and start running again it'll hurt afterwards. I'm afraid that it's never going to go away.
Sorry I'm not really the go to injury guy.
I do know some stuff about hip exercises though and have two excellent go to links with ideas.
I really should be lifting instead of running, since I am actually good at the first and bad at the latter... but anyway.
Had a 10k last week (a friend talked me into it) and finished at 56:14 at112kg. It is a little race series with a second 10k in December and a third 10k in January. That's pretty good motivation I gotta say. The goal for December is now 54:xx. And it is the next attempt to keep my weight reasonable. I have been working 60h/week for 2 months and it cost me ~5kg. If I get rid of those 5kg again it should lead me to a 53:xx or so by itself. I wish at those races they would list results by weight and not by age ;-)
Anyway... never give up. I cannot go back to my old days of uncontrolled eating.
On November 23 2014 15:44 Malinor wrote: I really should be lifting instead of running, since I am actually good at the first and bad at the latter... but anyway.
Had a 10k last week (a friend talked me into it) and finished at 56:14 at112kg. It is a little race series with a second 10k in December and a third 10k in January. That's pretty good motivation I gotta say. The goal for December is now 54:xx. And it is the next attempt to keep my weight reasonable. I have been working 60h/week for 2 months and it cost me ~5kg. If I get rid of those 5kg again it should lead me to a 53:xx or so by itself. I wish at those races they would list results by weight and not by age ;-)
Anyway... never give up. I cannot go back to my old days of uncontrolled eating.
I don't know exactly how tall you are, but for a guy who primarily trains lifting and only runs a little 56 is great at that weight. I'm trying to remember exactly how much you train, but I don't recall it being overly crazy. If you worked up to 60+ kpw per week I imagine you'd be running in the mid to high 40s in no time. That's very good at that weight. Not really fair to say you aren't good at running...or at least aren't talented. If you ditched the weight training and dropped 35-45 kg you'd be running well under 40.
I'm not advocating you going out and doing that, but I am saying don't sell yourself short on running ability!
On November 23 2014 15:44 Malinor wrote: I really should be lifting instead of running, since I am actually good at the first and bad at the latter... but anyway.
Had a 10k last week (a friend talked me into it) and finished at 56:14 at112kg. It is a little race series with a second 10k in December and a third 10k in January. That's pretty good motivation I gotta say. The goal for December is now 54:xx. And it is the next attempt to keep my weight reasonable. I have been working 60h/week for 2 months and it cost me ~5kg. If I get rid of those 5kg again it should lead me to a 53:xx or so by itself. I wish at those races they would list results by weight and not by age ;-)
Anyway... never give up. I cannot go back to my old days of uncontrolled eating.
My first 10k ever was a 57:xx with 72kg (1,82m). 2 and a half years later I'm running 42:xx thanks to constant running and without much weight loss. Race series are great for motivation. It's awesome to see your progress from race to race. _____
I just moved. I really wish that I had a GPS-watch now to help me explore the new neighbourhood.
On November 23 2014 05:36 Darkhorse wrote: Philly half marathon tomorrow. Wish me luck :D
What's the goal time? Either way...go kick some ass!
Whoops never saw this. I am by no means a distance runner (I was talked into doing this by my very athletic rower sister) but we both managed sub 2 hours. 1:56 baby :D
On December 03 2014 11:53 L_Master wrote: Dang nobody training or anything?
I'm still running 3 times a week but no where near where I was about a year ago. I guess its better than nothing..
Hows your training going?
Starting up. Lots of cycling this summer, focusing on a running cycle now here in the winter with a goal race on St Pats day in March. Goal is to eat well and put together a proper training cycle for the first time in about two years. In been a while since I really improved my fitness with quality, focused training.
I'm not really training for anything at the moment. Eventually I'll probably set my sights on some spring race or something. I have a hard time finding motivation to run through the winter when its all cold and dark by the time I'm leaving work every day.
I'm still hopping on the treadmill or a bike at least a couple times during the week at a minimum. Or doing something on the weekend.
I want to use some of this time to clean up my diet and other small stuff that I ignore when I'm running higher mileage.
I had a cold the last seven days. Might try a run tomorrow again. But I have nothing spectacular to report anyways. Working my way up to 70km/week is hard with all the interuptions from moving and illness. :-(
@Darkhorse: Great job! Was it your first? That's a very respectable time for someone who doesn't consider himself to be a runner.
@: LuckyFool: Did you run that half you talked about, btw.
On December 06 2014 02:09 Don_Julio wrote: I had a cold the last seven days. Might try a run tomorrow again. But I have nothing spectacular to report anyways. Working my way up to 70km/week is hard with all the interuptions from moving and illness. :-(
@Darkhorse: Great job! Was it your first? That's a very respectable time for someone who doesn't consider himself to be a runner.
@: LuckyFool: Did you run that half you talked about, btw.
Thanks! Yeah that was my first half marathon. I ran a 10-miler back in early October but that's about it for me in distance running. Just getting started!
And yeah I haven't done much distance running but I consider myself to be a pretty good athlete. I was a rower (4th at stotesbury sad face) and a swimmer in high school. I've mostly been lifting through college but I've kept some of the cardio vascular fitness I guess :D
On December 03 2014 11:53 L_Master wrote: Dang nobody training or anything?
I'm knocking out 100k/week still. One LT-ish workout, a few general aerobic runs, some recovery runs, and a long-ish effort. About half of it is on a treadmill, which is extremely mentally challenging but lets you go faster than our snowy trails here.
Planning on the Vancouver half in the spring, the Edmonton half in August, and a fall full marathon somewhere.
Are you doing much running? I mostly seem to see cycling on Strava :p
Has anyone else found that running near power plants screws up your GPS accuracy?
During this segment I ran the same route out and back. There's a power plant right around the [3] marker. On the way back, I thought I heard it make a sound, and soon after my GPS starts bugging out. It had me running along the river and along the road at the same time.
My GPS is typically very accurate. Nearly every time it is extremely off (as in, more than 20 feet off) it is in the vicinity of this power plant. It is not always like that whenever I am there, and it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens only when I am there. Does that make sense?
What's particularly odd about this is that it isn't one sporadic point that's wildly off. It's an entire series of points from imaginary-GrandInquisitor's imaginary run. It is literally off by the width of a large park for 10-15 minutes.
GPS is military isn't it? It makes sense that the Pentagon would disrupt the signal close to potential targets for terrorists (a power plant in NYC is a prime target) and they're capable of doing so. I don't know if they really do it, though and wouldn't it affect your signal running in both directions?
The "new" route looks way more interesting than running along this Vernon Blvd the whole time btw.
On November 23 2014 15:44 Malinor wrote: Had a 10k last week (a friend talked me into it) and finished at 56:14 at112kg. It is a little race series with a second 10k in December and a third 10k in January. That's pretty good motivation I gotta say. The goal for December is now 54:xx. And it is the next attempt to keep my weight reasonable. I have been working 60h/week for 2 months and it cost me ~5kg. If I get rid of those 5kg again it should lead me to a 53:xx or so by itself. I wish at those races they would list results by weight and not by age ;-)
Today was the second 10k in the series. I have been running 20 times during the last 21 days and my weight was at 107,5kg this morning.
I finished in 53:13, three minutes faster than three weeks ago. Also, this is definitely a new all time PR, including training. I recall that I did something like 54/55 minutes on track during training once. But I have never run a 53:xx. So I am very satisfied that all the work paid off.
The third race is on January 11th. I think 51:xx is a realistic goal, if I have a reasonable christmas and keep training well. So I will aim for that.
I hope I can keep this up, feels really good.
edit: The GPS had the 10k last 10070m. So my GPS actually tells me I broke 53:xx with like 52:58 at the 10k mark. Though I am never sure if the GPS is 100% accurate.
When I use the Strava app + GPS and run for like one hour it usually shows a difference of 1-2min between run time and elapsed time even though I dont lose more than 20 second not moving at the start and the end and no stops in between.
On November 23 2014 15:44 Malinor wrote: Had a 10k last week (a friend talked me into it) and finished at 56:14 at112kg. It is a little race series with a second 10k in December and a third 10k in January. That's pretty good motivation I gotta say. The goal for December is now 54:xx. And it is the next attempt to keep my weight reasonable. I have been working 60h/week for 2 months and it cost me ~5kg. If I get rid of those 5kg again it should lead me to a 53:xx or so by itself. I wish at those races they would list results by weight and not by age ;-)
Today was the second 10k in the series. I have been running 20 times during the last 21 days and my weight was at 107,5kg this morning.
I finished in 53:13, three minutes faster than three weeks ago. Also, this is definitely a new all time PR, including training. I recall that I did something like 54/55 minutes on track during training once. But I have never run a 53:xx. So I am very satisfied that all the work paid off.
The third race is on January 11th. I think 51:xx is a realistic goal, if I have a reasonable christmas and keep training well. So I will aim for that.
I hope I can keep this up, feels really good.
edit: The GPS had the 10k last 10070m. So my GPS actually tells me I broke 53:xx with like 52:58 at the 10k mark. Though I am never sure if the GPS is 100% accurate.
Congrats on both the PR and the weightloss.
Regarding your GPS accuracy: An inaccuray of less than 1% is tolerable. But it might be 100% accurate because even if the course was exactly measured you'll never be able to run it ideally. You always run a little longer than the perfect route (scrambling at the start, not taking turns perfectly, overtaking people).
well I haven't posted in this thread in forever, and that's because I haven't ran in forever
BUT, just wanted to stop by and bond with the fellow folks that are suffering on a dreadmill during these dark and cold [though not too cold where I am, just -6 to 4 C, aka 20 to 40 Fahrenheit] winter times.
I'm just picking back up (super slow and terrible!) but I have to re-start somewhere
@: LuckyFool: Did you run that half you talked about, btw.
Yeah I ran the philly half in 1:52. I didn't try to push it hard, I really was just there to visit and enjoy the run, mentally needed to get back on track after a bad marathon in October.
On December 20 2014 10:49 Don_Julio wrote: Winter sucks
Amen. I'm surviving it, but its really annoying. Running isn't so bad but cycling in cold just sucks, coldest fucking hands and feet ever.
Little irriating is trying to get mileage up and having alternating blisters/tender achilles tendon. Wanted to be at 40-50 range right now but its been more like 20-25 last few weeks. Might get to mid 30s this week though.
Most agitating part is I want to be doing running workouts and not cycling workouts, but I'm not going to do a workout with blisters or a potentially agitated achilles...so I've only been able to do easy runs. Should be just about past that though.
You guys are adorable with your winter complaints.
On a related note, I'm giving up on treadmill running. I bought a gym membership two months ago in hope of running workouts on a treadmill over the winter, but I've found it just makes me hate running. New plan is to run outdoors five or six days a week and then go to a local indoor track for intervals on the other one or two. It should cost about the same ($15 admission to the rec centre....) while preserving my love of running.
Good call. Running in circles indoors is still going to be boring but better than treadmilling anyways.
My winter isn't really a winter to speak of. I haven't seen a single snowflake yet and we had only about three days in the negative °C. It's just rainy and windy and I start to believe that this is how Scotland feels like. It's just a little inconvenient and nature looks shitty. My big complaint about winter is the early sunset. Almost impossible to run during daylight at weekdays.
On December 22 2014 00:19 Bonham wrote: You guys are adorable with your winter complaints.
You're not THAT much colder than here! You guys seem to have average high of around -6 in January, and we are right about at 0.
On December 22 2014 00:19 Bonham wrote: On a related note, I'm giving up on treadmill running. I bought a gym membership two months ago in hope of running workouts on a treadmill over the winter, but I've found it just makes me hate running. New plan is to run outdoors five or six days a week and then go to a local indoor track for intervals on the other one or two. It should cost about the same ($15 admission to the rec centre....) while preserving my love of running.
Treadmill is that bad huh? I really hate it for easy runs and sustained harder stuff, but I have no problem doing 5k pace or faster type work on the mill.
That said, indoor track is a million times better as long as it isn't one of those like 13+ laps to a mile monstrosities.
Hey, all! Firstly - go run! Second, thanks to you all for keeping a fun online running community going. It's made 2014 quite a bit more interesting and joyous for me personally to hear about your training, races, etc. I'm looking forward to 2015, and still keep wanting to get a Team Liquid running singlet project going...
On December 22 2014 00:19 Bonham wrote: You guys are adorable with your winter complaints.
You're not THAT much colder than here! You guys seem to have average high of around -6 in January, and we are right about at 0.
Average temperatures really don't reflect the pain that wind, humidity, ice can all add to the fun mix. I say this from experience in Twin Cities (average -5 deg C highs in Jan) - if the ice only melts and then immediately refreezes, it's no fun. Add humidity and it's terrible. If there's wind you had better strap on your ski goggles before heading out the door.
Colorado is SOOOOO much easier and nicer for winter running!
On December 22 2014 00:19 Bonham wrote: On a related note, I'm giving up on treadmill running. I bought a gym membership two months ago in hope of running workouts on a treadmill over the winter, but I've found it just makes me hate running. New plan is to run outdoors five or six days a week and then go to a local indoor track for intervals on the other one or two. It should cost about the same ($15 admission to the rec centre....) while preserving my love of running.
Treadmill is that bad huh? I really hate it for easy runs and sustained harder stuff, but I have no problem doing 5k pace or faster type work on the mill.
That said, indoor track is a million times better as long as it isn't one of those like 13+ laps to a mile monstrosities.
Right there with you, Bonham. I simply cannot do indoors (nice tracks are better, though, as L_Master points out, just expensive but less rare each year)- so much so that I brave most aforementioned terrible weather or just get slow. What are you training for now, Bonham, that is pushing 6-7 days per week and intervals?
I'm 26 years old , got back into sports about a year ago , since then most of my workouts have been focused on running and agility , 2 months ago while doing my weekly 1 hour run , my right knee started to hurt like fuck, but I ignored it and kept pushing to a point where it stops hurting , until I finish then it all comes rushing at once.
I finally decided to see a doctor , and he said I have a mild case of Osteoarthritis in my knee , kinda pissed me off because im fucking 26 ! it aint time for this shit yet !!!!! I thought the cause was because I took up a few months of rugby , but it turns out I was running too much and somehow my quads arent strong enough to deal with this kind of exercise despite other areas in body being 100% ready for it , my doc said Im in good condition so he and my coach said I need to do very light running and only on a grass field (honestly this is fucking torture....I miss my morning runs :'( ) , and do a fuck ton of quad exercises to minimize force going to the joint and some physiotherapy , so far I'm liking the results so far.
my doc and coach said I have to make some lifestyle changes such as change the angel in which i drive my car , use the elevator more often and avoid stairs when possible , never sleep with a bend knee....etc and of course no more rugby , which I got no issue with ,as long as at some point in the future I can get back to my long runs and speed practice.
So during this time I was introduced to flag football , something that I'm really enjoying now !
I was wondering if anyone on this thread has any experience dealing with this (Osteoarthritis) , because I'm desperate to get back on the road and do a 7 K run or something , so whatever advice , if the doc has no issue with it ill take it !
On December 24 2014 03:39 mtmentat wrote: Hey, all! Firstly - go run! Second, thanks to you all for keeping a fun online running community going. It's made 2014 quite a bit more interesting and joyous for me personally to hear about your training, races, etc. I'm looking forward to 2015, and still keep wanting to get a Team Liquid running singlet project going...
On December 22 2014 00:19 Bonham wrote: You guys are adorable with your winter complaints.
You're not THAT much colder than here! You guys seem to have average high of around -6 in January, and we are right about at 0.
Average temperatures really don't reflect the pain that wind, humidity, ice can all add to the fun mix. I say this from experience in Twin Cities (average -5 deg C highs in Jan) - if the ice only melts and then immediately refreezes, it's no fun. Add humidity and it's terrible. If there's wind you had better strap on your ski goggles before heading out the door.
Colorado is SOOOOO much easier and nicer for winter running!
On December 22 2014 00:19 Bonham wrote: On a related note, I'm giving up on treadmill running. I bought a gym membership two months ago in hope of running workouts on a treadmill over the winter, but I've found it just makes me hate running. New plan is to run outdoors five or six days a week and then go to a local indoor track for intervals on the other one or two. It should cost about the same ($15 admission to the rec centre....) while preserving my love of running.
Treadmill is that bad huh? I really hate it for easy runs and sustained harder stuff, but I have no problem doing 5k pace or faster type work on the mill.
That said, indoor track is a million times better as long as it isn't one of those like 13+ laps to a mile monstrosities.
Right there with you, Bonham. I simply cannot do indoors (nice tracks are better, though, as L_Master points out, just expensive but less rare each year)- so much so that I brave most aforementioned terrible weather or just get slow. What are you training for now, Bonham, that is pushing 6-7 days per week and intervals?
You are in Denver/Boulder though iirc. That's a different world than Monument. Admittedly not in terms of humidity but in terms of amount of snow and ice its absurd how much more we get. So often the Springs gets a couple inches and we get blasted with a foot+. We are also windy as all holy hell, most winter days have 10-15 mph winds with stronger gusts.
For christmas I give you your newest member of the TL Strava group. Guess what I got for christmas!
On December 24 2014 05:35 Tchado wrote:][spoiler] Hi all ! I wanted to ask for some advise
I'm 26 years old , got back into sports about a year ago , since then most of my workouts have been focused on running and agility , 2 months ago while doing my weekly 1 hour run , my right knee started to hurt like fuck, but I ignored it and kept pushing to a point where it stops hurting , until I finish then it all comes rushing at once.
I finally decided to see a doctor , and he said I have a mild case of Osteoarthritis in my knee , kinda pissed me off because im fucking 26 ! it aint time for this+ Show Spoiler +
shit yet !!!!! I thought the cause was because I took up a few months of rugby , but it turns out I was running too much and somehow my quads arent strong enough to deal with this kind of exercise despite other areas in body being 100% ready for it , my doc said Im in good condition so he and my coach said I need to do very light running and only on a grass field (honestly this is fucking torture....I miss my morning runs :'( ) , and do a fuck ton of quad exercises to minimize force going to the joint and some physiotherapy , so far I'm liking the results so far.
my doc and coach said I have to make some lifestyle changes such as change the angel in which i drive my car , use the elevator more often and avoid stairs when possible , never sleep with a bend knee....etc and of course no more rugby , which I got no issue with ,as long as at some point in the future I can get back to my long runs and speed practice.
So during this time I was introduced to flag football , something that I'm really enjoying now !
I was wondering if anyone on this thread has any experience dealing with this (Osteoarthritis) , because I'm desperate to get back on the road and do a 7 K run or something , so whatever advice , if the doc has no issue with it ill take it !
That sucks Medical advice over the internet is iffy. You'll always get anecdotal advice. Mine is that I know who has Osteoarthritis and had been a serious runner before the diagnosis. He can't run anymore - at all (hiking is problematic, too). That said: He was in his mid 40s when he got the diagnosis, had a terrible form and it's not a mild case. My advice for you is to get a second opinion and to ask for sound diagnosis methods (x-ray, MRI, CT). Then ask for therapy and continue asking if it's some vague advice like "avoid stairs". Tell the doctor that you want to get better and you want to run again at all cost. I wish you the best, get better soon and always listen to your body.