Now I don't exactly know what it takes for these guys to prepare for a game and to even play some minutes, but I imagine it would take them less energy to play less minutes. Lebron has sat about 10% of his games but averages 38 mpg. Do you think the "DNP or play massive minutes" strategy might also be related to individual awards and how it's better for players to retain high averages? Personally I don't really think so, but is it a ridiculous hypothesis or does it make some sense?
Edit: In the end my guess is that it still takes quite a physical and mental toll for these guys to even play a non-negligible amount of minutes each game, regardless of the actual amount.
The DNP or play massive minutes strategy is due to winning and losing. The Cavs can't win without Lebron so they might as well sit Irving and Love with him. That way, they don't have to sit Love or Irving when Lebron's actually playing. If you're going to play anyway, might as well play the minutes necessary to actually win the game. The Cavs are one of the oldest teams in the league. I remember a stat from a few weeks back that they were 0-9 this season on the second game of a back to back on the road.
When the Warriors went on their shit streak, they played 8 games in 13 nights with 6 of them being nationally televised. In the second week, they played a Monday game in Atlanta (after a Sunday game in New York), then a Wednesday home game back in Oakland, then a Friday game in Minnesota then a Saturday game in San Antonio. After the Minnesota game, they were going to arrive in San Antonio at 3 am in the morning. That's the reason Kerr decided to sit his heavy minute players. It's just a terrible schedule for a nationally televised game.
We're early on the new CBA and the new tv contracts. The NBA and the television partners clearly did not talk to the teams involved when doing the national tv schedule.
On March 22 2017 00:52 JimmiC wrote: I get that, but that is also why salaries went up so much with the last CBA. And the TV partners who paid record amounts want to get what they paid for. You can't be like sure pay me this insane amount of money but then were not going to deliver our best product. Like who wants to watch the cavs minus there big three, or GSW without the splash bros.
The problem is greed, no one is willing to give up money for better working conditions.
Indeed. And the real issue is the Owners are not cutting into that 82 game schedule if there isnt a cash tradeoff. People can complain all they want but the Teams have a financial incentive to win a championship.
On March 22 2017 01:56 MassHysteria wrote: Silver (or someone) said they would add games to the schedule next season in order to reduce their back-to-backs. Next on the priority will/should be eliminating the 4-games-in-5-nights. They won't be reducing amount of games ($ like jimmic said) and I see it being hard to eliminate even pre-season games, but they could look into that.
They definitely should not schedule nationally-televised games on team's back-to-back. And if a team does have a back-to-back, try to make it for the home teams.
The other thing that the league and Silver would be doing if they are able to work better schedules is that they will put the ball back in the players' court. Right now a lot of fans are siding with the players because it mostly makes sense with the league's scheduling. But if they rework a more player-friendly schedule and the players still decide to sit out due to rest, more fans will be shifting the blame to the players. Of course they can always just make up some injury if they really want to...
Outside of Lebron none of those guys are really making that call. The team does. And even Lebron himself does it rarely.
Of course fans dont give a fuck that the Cavs had Kyrie and Love banged up, Lebron leads the league in minutes and that they were in their 5th game in 8 nights.
There are 30 teams, each with their own agenda. The Cavs were reportedly one of three teams out of 30 to lose money last year. Some teams don't mind losing money while their championship window is open. All teams want the league to maximize profits while they are tanking.
On March 22 2017 01:56 MassHysteria wrote: Silver (or someone) said they would add games to the schedule next season in order to reduce their back-to-backs. Next on the priority will/should be eliminating the 4-games-in-5-nights. They won't be reducing amount of games ($ like jimmic said) and I see it being hard to eliminate even pre-season games, but they could look into that.
They definitely should not schedule nationally-televised games on team's back-to-back. And if a team does have a back-to-back, try to make it for the home teams.
The other thing that the league and Silver would be doing if they are able to work better schedules is that they will put the ball back in the players' court. Right now a lot of fans are siding with the players because it mostly makes sense with the league's scheduling. But if they rework a more player-friendly schedule and the players still decide to sit out due to rest, more fans will be shifting the blame to the players. Of course they can always just make up some injury if they really want to...
Outside of Lebron none of those guys are really making that call. The team does. And even Lebron himself does it rarely.
Of course fans dont give a fuck that the Cavs had Kyrie and Love banged up, Lebron leads the league in minutes and that they were in their 5th game in 8 nights.
Nor should the fans in attendance have to take that into consideration. They just want to see the game they paid for, not be a basketball-junkie looking over the schedules for their team and opponents of future games. Or even follow it as closely as most of us do on here to know all this. It ultimately does come down on the league to fix their product.
There are still many pro-player fans on this issue though. And after changing to a player-friendly schedule, they will hardly have an argument. Even if some players might not be in control, their willingness will still have a lot of influence. Like you said, fans don't care why they are out. And if outside forces are making them sit out in a player-friendly schedule next season, I am sure they will let their desire be more strongly known. Specially if the clamors from fans become louder.
Also, are there really fans who believed lebron this week when he said Coach Lue made him sit out? If he really wanted to play, he would have played. I am not even against him for sitting out or for answering the way he did, just thought it was funny when I heard it.
I was listening to Cowherd, and Nick Wright made a great pitch on how to fix the issue of players sitting out big games. He said that when two teams meet in the playoffs, make the team that won the regular season match-up have home-court advantage. So Cavs-warrriors, warriors-spurs, all those games will mean something (unless a team just decides to punt home-court anyways ofc). But I kinda like it as a starting point.
Teams have to protect their best interest and fans have to undertand it. This isnt new. If you dont want to be informed as to when a team will sit players then too bad, you arent entitled and should do the research. The NBA is correct in that teams should be informing the league office about it way in advance.
But lets stop pretending this is about integrity and being honest tp fans when they only give a fuck because its Lebron or the Warriors. That entitled greed is exactly why I hope it becomes a thing just like in soccer.
Lebron is at the top of the league in minutes. I doubt he was gonna play unless he really, really wanted to. When fans and dumb media members started making RINGZZZZ a major part of player legacy, resting during the regular season in an era that has players doing so much on the court relative to older eras was an obvious result. The league is going to rightfully find a way to make their sponsors happy and it starts with the scheduling of primetime games.
Nick Wright is generally mediocre in his takes. The problem lies with Adam Silver. The NBA is like a school district and he is the superintendent of schools. His problem is he is only focused on teachers (players) and principals (owners). There are two, other groups he is ignoring: students & taxpayers (fans & networks). And what has happened this year is the people came to him and said, "WTF!, Taxes are up, teachers are getting huge raises, principals are getting fat bonuses, and test scores are down! What are you doing?"
The league and its broadcast partners just need to not be dumb about scheduling. They know that fans want to see the same teams like the Cavs or the Warriors. But if you give them a crap schedule trying to fit too many of their games in a national tv schedule, then of course they're going to sit some of those games.
The obsession by fans and certain media members about RINGZZZZ and legacy plays a major part in this. Tim Duncan won 5 rings and was far more effective for a longer period of time than everybody in league history. Nobody was that effective playing at such an advanced age. He was still among the best defenders in the league last season. And that's due to how well Pop managed his minutes. You can't praise that while condemning what was done to achieve it.
On March 23 2017 04:30 andrewlt wrote: The league and its broadcast partners just need to not be dumb about scheduling. They know that fans want to see the same teams like the Cavs or the Warriors. But if you give them a crap schedule trying to fit too many of their games in a national tv schedule, then of course they're going to sit some of those games.
The obsession by fans and certain media members about RINGZZZZ and legacy plays a major part in this. Tim Duncan won 5 rings and was far more effective for a longer period of time than everybody in league history. Nobody was that effective playing at such an advanced age. He was still among the best defenders in the league last season. And that's due to how well Pop managed his minutes. You can't praise that while condemning what was done to achieve it.
Am I supposed to read RINGZZZZ in a Stephen A. Smith voice? 8D
On March 23 2017 04:09 Ace wrote: Thats a stupid idea by Nick Wright.
Well if it is, it's not because of that...I still can really only think of one flaw with it that might/might not be fixable.
And it seems like you are more against the fan's reactions than anything? To me that just is what it is...if players have the right to sit games for rest, fans have the right to complain about it. It's a two-way street. It's more about why the league had/has taken so long to do something about it.
When fans and dumb media members started making RINGZZZZ a major part of player legacy, resting during the regular season in an era that has players doing so much on the court relative to older eras was an obvious result.
I mean even if that is true and players do that much more on the court than before, the resting has more to do with a better understanding by scientists/doctors on the effects the schedule has on the body than anything else. ofc it also doesn't take a scientist to see how tough schedules have affected a team's w-l record throughout past and current seasons.
I do agree with your other stuff on the league and about the informing of absences by the teams (minus the soccer thing which I don't really get).
@andrewlt don't disagree with anything really...the scheduling of games is finally going to be changed and is late to do so in the minds of many. Will be interesting to see if/how they adjust for the "little things" like that in their scheduling system/software. I also agree with the media/fan obsession with rings and actually heard Gottlieb bring that up on Cowherd earlier(yes I drove a grip today).
Bringing up Duncan leads us to the real problem, which is that the league took too long to do something when this has been happening for years. More teams are only doing it now b/c they have seen it works with Pop. The only logical solution is to follow suit of a successful formula. And it's on the superintendent and his crew to do something about it (suhh clutz), which I do think everyone here agrees on.
one of the things i loved about Kobe was that the 1 game a year he came to Toronto he put on a show. Looking back at his injury history it probably took years off of his career.
There was some yap about Kobe's injuries and their cause. This is a good historical look at Kobe's injury issues.
Ibaka and Lopez got 1 game each. Toronto dodged a bullet ... they were probably going to lose to Miami any way. Miami curb-stomped them a couple of weeks ago.
On March 23 2017 04:09 Ace wrote: Thats a stupid idea by Nick Wright.
Well if it is, it's not because of that...I still can really only think of one flaw with it that might/might not be fixable.
And it seems like you are more against the fan's reactions than anything? To me that just is what it is...if players have the right to sit games for rest, fans have the right to complain about it. It's a two-way street. It's more about why the league had/has taken so long to do something about it.
When fans and dumb media members started making RINGZZZZ a major part of player legacy, resting during the regular season in an era that has players doing so much on the court relative to older eras was an obvious result.
I mean even if that is true and players do that much more on the court than before, the resting has more to do with a better understanding by scientists/doctors on the effects the schedule has on the body than anything else. ofc it also doesn't take a scientist to see how tough schedules have affected a team's w-l record throughout past and current seasons.
I do agree with your other stuff on the league and about the informing of absences by the teams (minus the soccer thing which I don't really get).
@andrewlt don't disagree with anything really...the scheduling of games is finally going to be changed and is late to do so in the minds of many. Will be interesting to see if/how they adjust for the "little things" like that in their scheduling system/software. I also agree with the media/fan obsession with rings and actually heard Gottlieb bring that up on Cowherd earlier(yes I drove a grip today).
Bringing up Duncan leads us to the real problem, which is that the league took too long to do something when this has been happening for years. More teams are only doing it now b/c they have seen it works with Pop. The only logical solution is to follow suit of a successful formula. And it's on the superintendent and his crew to do something about it (suhh clutz), which I do think everyone here agrees on.
It's not just the fans' anger, its that its directed at the players. These are decisions from the teams and ownership being handed down. Hence why Adam Silver is talking to them and not the NBAPA. Many ppl are using this as an excuse to bash the players for other reasons that largely have to do with their perception of laziness. It's also not a two way street with players and fans(more so owners/fans). The fans dont have a right to do anything. If you dont like it - vote with your wallet and stop paying. Saying someone has the right to do something that concerns another persons well being when they arent even informed about what players and teams do on a day to day basis is ignorant and dangerous.
The league in general never gave a shit because no one else did: until marquee players and teams did it one too many times.
The soccer thing was a reference to soccer teams sitting players which seems to be widely accepted in Europe.
And yes I think we can all agree something needed to be done. Quality of prime time games is as important as having them anyway. But if Lebron gets injured playing a game in late March you can bet fans and dumb media guys will turn around and blame the league for pressuring guys to play.
last year Cleveland pretty much handed the 1st seed in the eastern conference to Toronto on a silver platter. Toronto's response? more rest days for Demar and Kyle.
Knee surgery for Joel Embiid is said to be "very likely" now. So i guess they tried non-surgical rehab and that didn't work. Judging by how long this took it appears they exhausted every avenue before deciding to cut. As noted earlier if they do the sew up and repair of the cartilage then its a 4 to 6 month rest. if its shaving down the damaged cartilage then he'll be ready to begin rehab in a week. Remember how this started as a "day 2 day" injury with Embiid engaging in full practises. The Philly media is never going to forget it.
On March 23 2017 07:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote: one of the things i loved about Kobe was that the 1 game a year he came to Toronto he put on a show. Looking back at his injury history it probably took years off of his career.
Ibaka and Lopez got 1 game each. Toronto dodged a bullet ... they were probably going to lose to Miami any way. Miami curb-stomped them a couple of weeks ago.
As for those games taking years off his career, how long can one realistically play? He was known as a super hard practice player. Could have he taken off some of those and still played in all the games? Would have his greatness diminished if he practiced less and played less? It is impossible to know what if anything took years off his career and compared to 90% or more of the players he had a great long run.
This is a interesting video that puts out a theory, it wisely uses words like "could" and even capitalizes "APPEARS" showing it is a theory. And it could be right. The problem is there isn't that much data when you consider how few people have played the minutes he did, practiced as hard and started as young. Garrnett is like the only other guy and his career ended in much the same way, not the same injuries but still injuries. For all we know since his right leg was hurt him landing on his left after the surgeries actually increased the length of his career.
It is also EXTREMELY clear that you watched this video then "came up" or wanted us to think you "came up" with the whole landing mechanics causing Kobe's injury shit. If you are going to do this you should present it as a theory like the video does not as fact or better just link the video and post how you think it is a interesting take on why Kobes late injuries occurred. Passing it off as your idea, treating as fact with 0 data or back up does not make you look smart or intuitive or whatever your goal is.
LOL, these landing mechanics i'm discussing are basic. and i said they were basic in my previous posts. as far as the 1 leg landings go... anyone who watched Kobe's career noticed it. if u didn't notice it u weren't paying attention.
go outside and find a patch of concrete. Jump 12 inches in the air and land on 1 leg heel first. Do that 10 times fast on the same leg. Then for added fun do 10 more with your knee locked. Lemme know how that goes. its pretty funny how you've tried to claim i've never played sports and you think basic stuff like this is some kind of advanced science.
On March 23 2017 07:49 JimmiC wrote: It is also EXTREMELY clear that you watched this video then "came up" or wanted us to think you "came up" with the whole landing mechanics causing Kobe's injury shit.
this is me acknowledging i'm not the only guy to notice this... so guy ... quit misquoting me and making up bullshit... i made this quote shortly before a more detailed discussion began.
On March 18 2017 04:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote: notice how he lands on his fade-aways and many other shots on his left foot only and often heel first. some say this was the catalyst for his left knee problems. bad landing mechanics are a good predictor of future injuries.
On March 23 2017 07:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote: LOL, these landing mechanics i'm discussing are basic. and i said they were basic in my previous posts. as far as the 1 leg landings go... anyone who watched Kobe's career noticed it. if u didn't notice it u weren't paying attention.
go outside and find a patch of concrete. Jump 12 inches in the air and land on 1 leg heel first. Do that 10 times fast on the same leg. Then for added fun do 10 more with your knee locked. Lemme know how that goes. its pretty funny how you've tried to claim i've never played sports and you think basic stuff like this is some kind of advanced science.
On March 23 2017 07:49 JimmiC wrote: It is also EXTREMELY clear that you watched this video then "came up" or wanted us to think you "came up" with the whole landing mechanics causing Kobe's injury shit.
this is me acknowledging i'm not the only guy to notice this... so guy ... quit misquoting me and making up bullshit... i made this quote shortly before a more detailed discussion began.
On March 18 2017 04:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote: notice how he lands on his fade-aways and many other shots on his left foot only and often heel first. some say this was the catalyst for his left knee problems. bad landing mechanics are a good predictor of future injuries.
Oh my bad it's just a complete coincidence that you found this video right after you noticed (a year after his retirement) that his landing pattern changed after the injury. You noticed this the one time a year he came to toronto with your eagle eyes that have missed entire people playing. You then know that this cause his last injury even though this video just theorizes.
Odd how you chose to wait too bring this to our attention till now and now when he was getting injured and how you just happened to come across this video after you started "yapping" about Kobe....
LoL, LMAO.... this is honestly the story you are sticking too and you expect people to believe? Really?