**TeamLiquid now has a group on what I consider to be the best GPS/logging site out there: Strava. You can join the group here: http://www.strava.com/clubs/Teamliquid**
A thread for all my fellow TL'ers who run. A place to discuss goals, training, racing, motivation; anything related to running. Should be a little easier now that everything won't get lost in all the traffic of one mega-thread.
For those new to running their are a few common mistakes that many people make. The first is just plain doing too much, too soon. A general guideline reference is to increase mileage about 10% per week, with every 3/4 week being a cutback week of maybe 50-75% of the distance you just achieved. Obviously some people can increase much faster than this, and others will get an injury even following these guidelines. For people new to running its safe to add a day per week until your running 6/7 days a week, stay at the previous weeks number of days if that week felt particularly demanding.
The other common mistake is running too hard. Perhaps because of PE/sports/etc. their is this mentality of "no pain, no gain" when running. This is wrong. Especially for beginner the key is adjusting to running and finding some enjoyment out of it. This probably won't happen if your hammering every run at 5K pace - 10 seconds. If you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) your running WAY to hard. To give some basic guidelines if you can RACE a mile in:
5:00 - Normal running @ 7:00-7:45 pace/mile 5:30 - Normal running @ 7:30-8:45 pace/mile 6:00 - Normal running @ 8:15-9:00 pace/mile 6:30 - Normal running @ 9:00-9:45 pace/mile 7:00 - Normal running @ 9:30-10:15 pace/mile 7:30 - Normal running @ 10:15-11:00 pace/mile 8:00 - Normal running @ 11:00-11:45 pace/mile 8:30 - Normal running @ 11:30-12:15 pace/mile 9:00 - Normal running @ 12:15-13:00 pace/mile 10:00 - Normal running @ 13:30-14:15 pace/mile 12:00 - Normal running @ 16:00-17:00 pace/mile
For those totally new to running that have been sedentary/non-athletic most their life here is one of the best introductions to running out there: Couch to 5K
For those that have maintained a minimal level of activity beyond being sedentary its reasonable to jump in at 3-4 days a week of 3-4 miles. Progressing by adding a day per week until you reach 6 or 7 days per week. Mileage can be increased from there.
General recommendation for most injuries is if the pain lessens, and perhaps if its mild and doesn't intensify you can continue to run on it. If the pain increases as you run, definitely stop. Nothing like turning a mild case of achilles tendinitis into a long term case of prolonged achilles tendinosis.
You really have to listen to your body on these though. For the non-competitive runner running for fitness, its probably wise to just play it safe and take a a day or two off at any hints of injury. If your training competitively or for an important event then you really just need to try to listen to and judge the injury. Obvious training with anything other than routine soreness runs the risk of turning something minor into something serious, however, if you break training for every possible suggestion of injury you probably won't put together very good blocks of training.
Racing Flat/Flat - Very lightweight shoes designed for long distance racing Trainer - Standard, heavier, and generally more supportive shoe used primarily for training due to wearing out less frequently than thinner racing flats
Easy Run - light run for general aerobic development; usually can converse easily with a partner, breathing rhythm usually around 2/2-3/3. Typically 60-75% of max heart rate. Marathon Pace/M-Pace/Aerobic Threshold Pace - usually fastest aerobic pace, obviously pace at which you could run for a marathon. Approx 40-60 second slower than 5K race pace Tempo/T-Pace Run - A common term that refers to several different run types. Tempo's typically have three popular durations, 20-30 min, 40-60 min, and extended tempos of 60-80 min. Correct pacing is around 5K+20-25 seconds per mile for short ones, 5K+35-40 seconds per mile for the medium, and 5K+50-60 seconds per mile for the longer ones. Reps - Fast track intervals @ around mile race pace w/recovery time twice that of repeat (400m in 75 seconds = 150 second slow jog recovery). Used to build economy at speed and make fast paces seem easier Intervals/V02 Max Interval - Longer repeats at slower pace with less recovery. Usually 1:1 recovery/repeat at around 3K-5K race pace (1200m in 3:30 w/3:30 jog recovery). Long Run - run longer than typical for YOUR mileage. Usually around 20% of weekly mileage (aka runner running 60mpw might run around 11-13 miles for a long run) Fartlek - Swedish for "speed play". A run that can be pretty much whatever a runner wants. Can involve just picking random targets and running as hard as desired toward them and then recovery for however long you want, or can be structured as in 2 min "ON", 2 min "OFF". Strides - Short pickups of about 50-100m done anywhere from 400m-1600m race pace. Serve to "stay in touch" with speed and maintain neuromuscular coordination for fast paces. NOT meant to be hard.
Kick - runners strong finish to the end of a race; crucial to winning championship races which are generally slower and more tactical in nature Tactial Race - typically slower pace, refers to a race in which different runners try to force the race to their strengths. Ex: a super fast runner might want to wait till 100m to go before kicking hard for home, while the slower, but stronger runner might really pick up the pace with 400m+ to go and try to "run the kick out of" the faster runner. Move - An increase in speed to either pass runners, obtain position, or make a move for the win. It's said you get one move in the 800m, 2 in the 1500m, and 3 in the 5000m/10000m Surge - Increase in pace of the race by a runner Stagger - difference in starting places to account for varying radius of the curves in races that are fixed lane or partially fixed lane. Turnover - basically a runners stride, turnover essentially referring to the length and rate of stride Cadence - Steps per minute Mileage - miles run, usually given as a weekly value MPW, mpw - miles per week Raw Speed - Most common measure is an athletes 200m time Speed - Generally refers to top end gear, but for distance runners is often cited as 400m speed. Ex: A world class 800m runner likely has 45-47 second speed V02 Max - measure of maximum oxygen uptake vV02 max - Velocity at V02 Max, lowest speed at which an athlete is at maximum oxygen consumption. Usually occurs between 3K and 5K pace Anaerobic Threshold - inflection point on the lactic acid accumulation curve, at which point blood levels of lacate increase significantly faster. Usually around high end tempo pace, a little slower than 10K pace. Bonk - usually applies to marathon, occurs when a runner goes out to hard and deplets glycogen too soon resulting in a massive increase in speed and major pace drop off Elite - top level runner LSD - long, slow distance Negative Split - last half of race faster than first Overpronate - Higher than normal amount of inward roll of the foot Heelstrike - generally undesirable stride in which the foot lands forward of center of gravity resulting in a braking effect and extra stress Splits - Times at specific distances. Ex: in a 5K might have splits read every K, in a mile splits might be read every 400m World Best - best time for an event without official world records, or a non-ratified world record. Ex: marathon world record is 2:03:59, world best is 2:03:02 World Lead - best time run for an event in that calendar year NR - National Record
Your head and neck should look as if you were standing still as someone was measuring your height and you want to squeeze in every extra millimeter possible. Your head should be up tall and your eyes should be looking straight ahead. It helps to focus on an object in the near distance that you are aiming for. If you are racing stare at the back of a runner a little ahead of you. Do not stare at the ground because it will likely mess up the form of your midsection.
Arms
While you are swinging your arms visualize there is a vertical line in the middle of your chest. Do not cross any part of either arm over to the other side. Also make sure your arms are not swinging too far to the outside on the other side of your body. Keep your arms swinging between your imaginary vertical chest line and your shoulder. Your right arm should be between your right shoulder and the vertical chest line and your left arm should be between your left shoulder and the chest line.
Keep your elbows bent at about 45 degrees. Your elbows should not be doing much bending or straightening as you are running; keep them at close to 45 degrees the whole time.
Maintain stable wrists throughout your movements. Do not bend them in any way.
Keep your hands in a loose fist. If they are too tight you will be using unnecessary energy and if they are too lose you will look like a not as cool T-1000. Maybe if you're a sprinter you can do the T-1000 with your hands completely straight, but not as a distance runner. I like to keep my thumbs on the top and outside of my pointer finger rather than wrapping around a fist. Your thumb will be straight and pointing away from you if you do it this way. Doing it like this helps me focus on keeping a loose hand and straight wrist.
Chest/Back
Your chest should be just as it would be if you were standing still, straight, and tall. Your back will be straight as well. If you find that you are leaning forward, make sure you are looking ahead of you rather than below you. Also, you may have weak abdominal muscles that prevent you from running up straight and tall. I ran like this for the first couple of years when I started because I had no abs.
Hips
Keep your hips underneath you and forward you as if you're banging a hot girl and you're about to ejaculate. Practice this in front of a mirror without a shirt when nobody else is around or someone you are trying to impress IS around. Keeping your hips forward will help your body drive forward.
Legs
This is where most runners tend to need the most work. You should be hitting about 3 strides per second when you are running at a moderately fast to fast pace. This means that your feet are striking the ground at a rate of 3 steps per second. This is the most efficient way to run for distance runners but is difficult and probably not worth doing if you're not running fast (relative to your own ability). But the next time you are running faster, whether it's a tempo run, strides, or whatever, try this out. Count how many steps you take in 10 seconds. How close is it to 30? You probably need to be taking more and shorter steps.
Pick up your feet as soon as they hit the ground. It sounds obvious but really make an effort to think about this as you are running. The longer your feet stay on the ground the more momentum you are losing. Keep them legs moving fast and forward. Try running in place with this principle in mind.
Pick up your feet higher than where you perceive your knee to be. While some people (usually old people) prefer the marathon shuffle, keeping your legs moving in a more circular manner, you can increase your efficiency as long as you use all of these leg tips together. Just go watch some videos of elite distance runners to get a visual or this or anything else being described. Most elites have excellent form, specifically in the beginning of races before they get too tired. This is another technique that is difficult to do unless you are running fast. But when you are running fast this will make you fast AND smooth.
This last tip can be debated but I'll lay it down anyway. Strike the ground with your mid foot. Heel striking is very common and the normal way most people run when they slip on running shoes. This is interesting because if you run barefoot you will be mid foot striking. Try it out. I am a believer in the benefits of barefoot and minimalist shoe training, but that is a topic for another time. I still think a mid foot strike to be the best bet here. Not only is it the most natural way for humans to run but it also keeps your feet on the ground for less time. Remember that you are fighting inertia and need to keep your feet off the ground and your legs driving forward.
American<->SI Pace Conversion Tool (credit: Malinor) + Show Spoiler +
*Added a section to the OP for training logs. If you log your running online in an accessible form feel free to post your log up and I will add them to the OP.*
Well, looking at 2017 in review I don't have too much to say about it. I got into some absolutely crazy shape by March, by making some pretty drastic changes in the structure of my training....but never got to do anything with it. A small crash didn't help but then school got in in the way, and by May I'd lost that condition and was too busy to be able to get it back.
Not unhappy with the year, as school is the priority, but it certainly had the potential to be a great year.
2018 I can't honestly say I have any major goals as it all revolves around school. I'd be pretty happy looking back on the year if I stayed in what I consider good enough shape to race and got in 5-10 races. Basically maintaining a decent level of fitness and biding my time till 2019 when school should start to ease.
Only one post in this, the most important annual thread on TL? Not if I have anything to say about it!
2017 was a tough year for me. I kept jumping the gun and trying to come back from my Achilles injury too fast. This was a dumb move that prolonged my running hiatus. When I finally got back to running in August, it was too late to do much in the way of actual racing. I've spent the four months since getting back into shape and thinking about 2018.
My biggest goal for this year is to see the big picture and to not run like an idiot. Real improvement comes from years of consistent, injury-free training, not going hell-for-leather in the short term. I want to do everything I can do avoid injury and enjoy running, even if that means pulling out of a workout or stopping doubles or whatever if my body doesn't feel right.
As far as races go, I have a few on tap.
The first is the Race for the Whales, an 11.5 mile road race in Maui in February. I chose it because I'm going to Hawaii for a vacation then and I wanted something to test the fitness I've been building since August. Plus, I've never raced 11.5 miles before, so whatever I do will be a PB. I'm hoping this will help me stay positive by not comparing my performance to what I could do pre-injury.
Second race is a leg of the Sinister Seven Ultra marathon in Alberta this summer. I run this as part of a relay team that usually wins the race. It's a great, fun weekend, though the actual running is a total suffer-fest. (Mountains are the worst.) Missing it last year was a real bummer. Can't wait for another great weekend with the boys!
The third race I'm thinking of is some kind of fall marathon. It might be Edmonton, which is in late August, or it might be something else. I have no idea what would be reasonable to think of for a time here. Something under 2:40 at the very least, maybe sub-2:35 if things are really going well.
We'll see what we shall see, I guess.
Who else is out there dreaming of lactic acid these days?
Glad to see you're moving in the right direction Bonham. You couldn't be more right about the consistency piece. Lots of people put in a great cycle or great year, but for getting truly quality results it comes from years of consistent work.
For right now my training's getting rolling. Unfortunately school starts in a week so we shall see what happens. The approach right now I guess is try and get school into a really solid place by March, and then see about racing the collegiate season Mar-May, school permitting.
Regardless of that, I'd like to do some racing late summer at the worst (if school totally torpedoes training), or some of our big late spring/early summer classics if I'm able to hold onto fitness.
Guess the main focus right now more than anything is getting unfat from my fall lifting. Let me tell ya boyz, cycling (uphill anyway) doesn't work for shit when you weight close 80kg as a 5'8" guy. Not a big deal for flat races but I live in Colorado so most of the best races are somewhat hilly.
On January 12 2018 03:47 L_Master wrote: Guess the main focus right now more than anything is getting unfat from my fall lifting. Let me tell ya boyz, cycling (uphill anyway) doesn't work for shit when you weight close 80kg as a 5'8" guy. Not a big deal for flat races but I live in Colorado so most of the best races are somewhat hilly.
On January 12 2018 03:47 L_Master wrote: Guess the main focus right now more than anything is getting unfat from my fall lifting. Let me tell ya boyz, cycling (uphill anyway) doesn't work for shit when you weight close 80kg as a 5'8" guy. Not a big deal for flat races but I live in Colorado so most of the best races are somewhat hilly.
Weightlifting is evil! I knew it!
More the eating to make that lifting really work
That said, I continue to have the personal experience that strength training isn't that valuable for running or cycling performance, outside of some potential sprint benefits.
Still possible that the kind of training I'm doing isn't what would be best for endurance sports, but I'm pretty doubtful doing a bunch of light reps would be more beneficial that just...actually running.
That said, I continue to have the personal experience that strength training isn't that valuable for running or cycling performance, outside of some potential sprint benefits.
For running, there's a bit of a performance benefit to supplementary strength training because normal running training doesn't stimulate all of the muscles that eventually get used in a race. As the primary running muscles get tired and form is threatening to break down in the final portion of a race, the strength of the "auxiliary" muscles becomes key to finishing strong. It's not feasible to develop these auxiliary muscles just by running because they aren't recruited until the primary muscles are failing and it's not good to train to failure like that. So runners have to turn to strength training that specifically targets those muscles. The way you might notice the benefit of a good cycle of strength training is being able to stay unusually strong and smooth at the end of a race.
And then the other benefit of strength training is injury prevention.
Not sure about cycling though. It seems like the bike forces the cycling motion to be more static as opposed to running form which can really start to change as certain muscles get tired and form naturally adjusts so that other muscles can begin to compensate.
edit: I should also mention though that some elite coaches don't have their athletes do any weight training at all, opting for hill sprints instead. But they're definitely at least also doing some drills, stretches, and other exercises that lightly train the "auxiliary" muscles in addition to hill sprints. They just don't specifically hit the weight room and do olympic lifts etc.
That said, I continue to have the personal experience that strength training isn't that valuable for running or cycling performance, outside of some potential sprint benefits.
For running, there's a bit of a performance benefit to supplementary strength training because normal running training doesn't stimulate all of the muscles that eventually get used in a race. As the primary running muscles get tired and form is threatening to break down in the final portion of a race, the strength of the "auxiliary" muscles becomes key to finishing strong. It's not feasible to develop these auxiliary muscles just by running because they aren't recruited until the primary muscles are failing and it's not good to train to failure like that. So runners have to turn to strength training that specifically targets those muscles. The way you might notice the benefit of a good cycle of strength training is being able to stay unusually strong and smooth at the end of a race.
And then the other benefit of strength training is injury prevention.
Not sure about cycling though. It seems like the bike forces the cycling motion to be more static as opposed to running form which can really start to change as certain muscles get tired and form naturally adjusts so that other muscles can begin to compensate.
edit: I should also mention though that some elite coaches don't have their athletes do any weight training at all, opting for hill sprints instead. But they're definitely at least also doing some drills, stretches, and other exercises that lightly train the "auxiliary" muscles in addition to hill sprints. They just don't specifically hit the weight room and do olympic lifts etc.
Weight lifting for distance runners is one of those subjects that has a lot of conflicting opinions.
What worked well for me was training heavy (up to 3 reps for 5 sets during the toughest training cycle) 2x a week after refueling after a hard running workout. I think injury prevention is huge here but as someone who didn't have much speed I think doing heavy squats and reverse hypers helped me gain speed for my workouts. When I ran better workouts I ran faster races.
I don't believe weightlifting was very helpful at all for my cycling. I used to work out a lot, then did both for a while, and then I stopped working out completely, and that's when I had the most cycling progress. I'm sure it depends on the program, but my bro science view on it is that your body can only repair a certain amount of cells in your sleep, and so when it's having to repair slow twitch muscles as well as slow twitch muscles, it wont heal them as well as if it was only healing one. Therefore you can't get as good at both at the same time.
As for me, last year I didn't get to go on too many adventures at all. My work has been keeping me in good shape, but I've just been so busy that I didn't do much of it. This year I'm hoping to do the Mount Temple + Eiffel Peak double scramble in one day (3000m elevation gain and 3000m elevation drop, 42km total length). I'd also like to attempt the Calgary - Highway Pass (highest paved road in Canada) loop, 300km... I'm at about the same weight as last time I completed it, but I'm heavier, so we'll see. I haven't been biking as much recently, so those 300km will take me a good 12-14 hours. Lastly I'd like to compete in the Mount Revelstoke Steamer on August 27th, a 26km 5.6% climb (yeah, no TdF climb, but most difficult one in Canada). I went skiing there during Christmas for 4 days, and it's beautiful.
I'll be aiming for 60km a week average of cycling, it's not much, but 150km get draining too quickly, especially with my job, it's just too tough to maintain. I always push hard, so it should let me stay in decent shape for these events.
Looking forward to seeing your progress this year Nony, your half marathon times have been interesting to follow. Hope everyone stays healthy!
I was never a fan of distance running, because my endurance was pretty bad my whole life. My PR for mile is 6:39 in 8th grade during PE, when we did timed mile, and I still haven't broken that. But starting last July (July of 2017), I decided to run a little bit every week, like a mile a day or sometimes 3 miles, just so I could improve my endurance. (I was annoyed at how quickly I was getting tired when lifting some weights)
At first, running a 8 min mile made me feel like I was going to collapse and throw up at the end, but somehow, I was pretty semi-consistent in running almost every week. Fast forward half a year, I can now run 15:00 2 mile and high 6 min one mile (still haven't broken 6:39 yet, but I did run 6:42 not too long ago). It's really crazy to think that after feeling so beat up after running a 8 min mile 6 months ago, I can now run two miles in 7:30/mile pace without feeling like absolute shit at the end. Obviously, this isn't fast by the standards of serious runners. I looked up the times that my classmates in high school who did cross country ran back in high school, and they were running crazy stuff like 17min 3 mile and mid to high 4 min 1 mile. I have no ambition of reaching that kind of level in running, but it would be nice though if I can run a sub-6 mile for the 1st time in my life.
On February 07 2018 01:02 don_kyuhote wrote: I was never a fan of distance running, because my endurance was pretty bad my whole life. My PR for mile is 6:39 in 8th grade during PE, when we did timed mile, and I still haven't broken that. But starting last July (July of 2017), I decided to run a little bit every week, like a mile a day or sometimes 3 miles, just so I could improve my endurance. (I was annoyed at how quickly I was getting tired when lifting some weights)
At first, running a 8 min mile made me feel like I was going to collapse and throw up at the end, but somehow, I was pretty semi-consistent in running almost every week. Fast forward half a year, I can now run 15:00 2 mile and high 6 min one mile (still haven't broken 6:39 yet, but I did run 6:42 not too long ago). It's really crazy to think that after feeling so beat up after running a 8 min mile 6 months ago, I can now run two miles in 7:30/mile pace without feeling like absolute shit at the end. Obviously, this isn't fast by the standards of serious runners. I looked up the times that my classmates in high school who did cross country ran back in high school, and they were running crazy stuff like 17min 3 mile and mid to high 4 min 1 mile. I have no ambition of reaching that kind of level in running, but it would be nice though if I can run a sub-6 mile for the 1st time in my life.
Those two statements are pretty opposite. 6:40 for the mile as an 8th grader who isn't running is quite fast.
You can absolutely break 6, and probably within the next 3-6 months if your smart with your training and aren't carrying around a ton more weight than you were back then. What are you currently doing as far as training?
Well running sub-7 mile that one time in 8th grade was more of a one time thing, because I didn't break sub-7 min after that for many years. But yes, I was not the slower guy among my peers, but I don't think I would consider myself a fast guy back then either. I remember that the guys who were in soccer teams or did other sports in middle school were running sub-6 mile pretty easily.
As far as training, I haven't really researched any training programs. I have no distance running background at all and never did cross country or anything during middle/high school or after that. Right now, I alternate between 2 things: 1. running (or jogging lol) for about 50 min 2. running 2 miles as fast as I can, then walk for like 20 min to recuperate, and then running the 3rd mile as fast as I can. I am definitely open to any and all suggestions from more experienced runners.
I'm in the same boat, but I run 5k a few times a week at least. I've been steadily increasing the pace I keep on a treadmill just to up what I consider my regular pace.
A year and a half ago I was running 6mph for 30 min, now I can keep 8 min miles up easy. I can do sub 7:30s but haven't pushed past that much.
I'm looking forward to trying to hit some PRs not on a treadmill once it thaws out.
On February 07 2018 03:19 don_kyuhote wrote: Well running sub-7 mile that one time in 8th grade was more of a one time thing, because I didn't break sub-7 min after that for many years. But yes, I was not the slower guy among my peers, but I don't think I would consider myself a fast guy back then either. I remember that the guys who were in soccer teams or did other sports in middle school were running sub-6 mile pretty easily.
As far as training, I haven't really researched any training programs. I have no distance running background at all and never did cross country or anything during middle/high school or after that. Right now, I alternate between 2 things: 1. running (or jogging lol) for about 50 min 2. running 2 miles as fast as I can, then walk for like 20 min to recuperate, and then running the 3rd mile as fast as I can. I am definitely open to any and all suggestions from more experienced runners.
What pace are you running those 50' runs at?
The easy runs are good to do, but the main thing you would benefit from (assuming you enjoy this sort of thing and want to get faster) is some more structure to your training. Going out and hammering two miles and then a miles isn't very effective. It's a max effort, and it's impossible to consistently better max efforts on a weekly basis. So you end up doing the same workout over and over...and your body is already capable of that workout, so even though it's hard you're not putting a new challenge on your body and it doesn't adapt.
You're newer, so start simple. A good example might be:
Mon: OFF Tue: 3x8' at Threshold (about 90% of 5k pace, 85% of 3k pace, "comfortably hard") Wed: 3-4M VERY Easy (50-65% of 5k/3k pace, or around 11-12 min mile pace) Thur: 4 x (3' ON w/1' recovery shuffle jog, ON's starting at 8:00 pace) Fri: OFF Sat: 6M run, middle 20' at strong aerobic pace (likely around 9:00 pace) Sun: OFF or easy 3-4M
This would progress by adding duration to the Tuesday and Saturday workouts, and gradually increasing the speed of the 3' Thursday repeats. The Saturday run will naturally become longer in distance as the middle portion becomes longer.
Best way to train is a combination of easy runs, longer/aerobic runs, and interval work. For most new runners, aerobic strength is the weak point. Some effective ways to work on this would be:
- 3x10 min continuous run about 8:15 pace. This pace should be "comfortably hard". It should feel like you're cruising fast and breathing heavy, but you're not murdering yourself to do it. This could then progress the next week to 3x11', then 3x12' then 3x13', etc. Pace doesn't get faster, but you extend the duration. 3-5 min very easy jog or walk recovery between the repeats.
- Another one I really like is 3' ON/1' OFF. For that, you use something a little slower than 5k pace, so for you that might be somewhere between 7:45-8:00 pace. So you'd run 3:00 at 8' pace, then 1' of easy jog. Start at 4 repeats, and build to 7 or 8. From there, try to run just a bit faster each time. Did 7:45 the workout before? Do 7:43 pace this workout.
- The other one that is really good is extending the length of long steady runs. So you might start with a 40 min run, where the first 10' and last 10' are easy warm up and warm down. The middle 20' would be at a steady, aerobic pace (a little slower than that comfortably hard pace I described above, usually around 40-60 s/mile slower than 5k pace). Then you keep extending the length of that, so next week it might be 25', then 30', then 35' etc. The key here is that it is an extension in duration, and not in pace. If you feel amazing, don't run faster...run longer.
The main principles I would say when you're newer are
- Start easy and work your way into it. This reduces injury risk, and gives you somewhere to progress to. Right now, you probably could go on the track and run 7x3' ON at 7:15 pace, jogging easy for a minute in between, and finish the workout. However, it would be extremely hard, and where do you go after that? If you were already pegged at 7:15, there is no way you're going to be able to go 7:13 or 7:10 next week. Starting conservative, both in duration and intensity, is smart - ABP. Always Be Pushing. It's going to sound contradictory to the above, but the body adapts fast. Once you've done a workout, you're body is capable of it. Doing it again doesn't really drive new stimulus and adaptation. The changes don't have to, and shouldn't be, dramatic. But each workout you should be looking to either lengthen the total worktime, or the speed of the repeats. Doing the same workout over and over usually works for a month or two, but then you soon adapt and remain at the same level. The key here is that if you go out and run 3x10' at a certain pace, then say "ah that wasn't so bad, I'll do 3x20' next week", you'll get in trouble. That's a huge jump, and it's unsustainable. Always progress workouts, but that progression can be gentle. -Think aerobically. This is always the biggest weakness for newer endurance athletes. There is a time and place for gut wrenching, acid inducing 400m repeats...but that's not now. Get generally "stronger" (in endurance lingo this refers to aerobic capacity) for at least several months. Even an event like the mile is over 80% aerobic in nature. Not only will this bring the best improvements, it also strengthens recovery and work capacity so that when it comes time for the hard, super fast stuff to put the icing on the cake you can handle more of it and recover more effectively.
FYI: There are very few kids running sub 6, especially in middle school. There might be 2-3 kids on a soccer team in MS that could go sub 6. Of course, they are the ones you hear about. Moreover, these kids in soccer or other sports are getting a good deal of running and speed training through their sport. There is a big difference between a soccer kid going sub 6 and a sedentary person going sub 6.
As for myself, so far the training is going well, but we are starting to hit that point in the semester where things might ramp up and send that all to hell. On top of my stuff for the moment though.
Weight has gone from 80kg down to 74.5kg, so I'm working my way back down to sanity. 70kg or so is where I've done most of my racing, so if I can eat well over the next month or so I'll be in a position to think about doing some quality racing and challenging old PRs.
Fitness is coming better than expected. Workouts are progressing very well, and so far it's been mapped out to where I haven't been overdoing anything and missing/failing workouts. I guess it's that old "Easier to get back what you built up before". Metabolically, I seem to be a little ahead of where I was last year at this time, which is exciting because the engine was in fantastic shape last winter. I am however, not being so stupid with school, so my long endurance/volume is a bit lower (around 600TSS/8-10 hours for training weeks, as opposed to 13-15 hours/800-1000TSS last winter)...but that shouldn't be a major deal given races until Pro-1-2 category are primarily 1-2 hours.
Next 6 weeks will be pretty decisive for spring race getting back into killer shape, but we'll see how it goes. In an ideal world, I'd get down to mid/high 60kg range, race hard in the Spring, do a big endurance cycle on the bike and hit some of the hill climbs + Boulder stage race in the fall, and then take a crack at running in the fall.
I don't time my pace that closely when I run for 50ish minutes, but I would assume anywhere along the lines of 9:30~10min per mile pace. Just any pace that wouldn't make me feel exhausted while I'm running. Thanks though, and I will definitely check out the program you're suggesting.
Raced 11.5 miles in a hair under 67 minutes yesterday at the Race For The Whales in Maui. The course was tough, but it wasn't as hot as I feared it might be. I placed second, being unable to catch an evil Minnesotan wearing Vaporflies.
My time was slower than I hoped but faster than I feared. This was my slowest half marathon-type race in over five years. It really brought home how far I have to go to get back to where I was pre-injury.
The good news is both my Achilles tendons felt good throughout, and the fire still burns. I can't stop thinking about my next race and what I'm going to do to get faster. Right now I'm thinking about a 10-mile course in my hometown. Race is on April 22. It's a figure-eight course with lots of hills and twists. I ran 57 minutes there two years ago in the middle of a 180k week of training, so I think trying to beat that time or at least get within spitting distance of it would be a good goal.
On February 12 2018 04:28 Bonham wrote: Raced 11.5 miles in a hair under 67 minutes yesterday at the Race For The Whales in Maui. The course was tough, but it wasn't as hot as I feared it might be. I placed second, being unable to catch an evil Minnesotan wearing Vaporflies.
My time was slower than I hoped but faster than I feared. This was my slowest half marathon-type race in over five years. It really brought home how far I have to go to get back to where I was pre-injury.
The good news is both my Achilles tendons felt good throughout, and the fire still burns. I can't stop thinking about my next race and what I'm going to do to get faster. Right now I'm thinking about a 10-mile course in my hometown. Race is on April 22. It's a figure-eight course with lots of hills and twists. I ran 57 minutes there two years ago in the middle of a 180k week of training, so I think trying to beat that time or at least get within spitting distance of it would be a good goal.
Did you lose by 4% though?
Glad to hear you're healthy! For a tough course I'd say that's not a terrible pace coming back from injury. Might be in position to threaten PRs again over the latter half of the year if all goes well!
2017 was a crazy sort of year for me, lots of life changes and lack of follow-through on my goals (not always 100% my fault, kinda had to roll with life as it came). My goals posted at the beginning of 2017 were largely unmet: Boston was a pretty epic failure, Hell Week was aborted after one of the more silly run attempts and subsequent bonks of my life, I did not secure employment in a reasonable amount of time, and I did not host any running stuff around Dreamhack Denver (which was awesome anyway). Finally, near the end of the year: I did sprint finish the Rattlesnake Ramble for an 3rd place age-group prize! Wooo.
You'd think, after that sort of year, I'd be a bit unhappy with myself. Honestly, right now Life is Good. I'm staying home with my toddler daughter, and have finally figured out how to grab some miles during nap-times. My wife took my employment status as an opportunity and is now (luckily, thankfully) back in the workforce as a kick-ass data scientist.
GOALS FOR 2018 1) Be a better person! This includes being more or wholly present for my daughter and just having daily fun with toddler activities, trying to read more, learn new languages (Java & French), keep the household rolling along well re: nutrition, organization, improvements.
2) Be a better runner! I need to learn how to be a bit more consistent (figuring out that nap laps work is a huge boon here), trying to get up to 6 days per week running, up above 50 miles/week consistently, maybe mix in some core strength and trail/technical runs in as able.
3) Be a (better?) ultrarunner! I am a bit of poser, honestly. I love the people in RMR, I love the garish green garb, and I like trail runs <20 miles long, but I've only ever done one distance greater than a marathon. This (2015 Dirty Thirty) was a very hard race, just kinda crushed me, and so *of course* on my 32nd birthday I signed up for Quad Rock 50 Mile this May.
Running remains a pillar of my life - keeps my body and mind both mostly happy, and makes the rest of the daily/weekly/life challenges seem pretty darn approachable. Hearing about (and seeing on Strava) all ya'lls miles is always fun, and helps get my shoes on to meet goal #2.
Man, you know what's wild? Specificity of adaptation.
I've started doing some unweighted squats and lunges a few times a week. I'm told that there's lots of good evidence that some strength work like this is great for injury prevention in runners, and it has lots of other health benefits too. I'm planning to add a small amount of weight once I get the motions down and build up some strength.
Thing is, my legs are already getting sore! I thought they were reasonably strong, being able to carry me on a 20 mile run without much difficulty. But after three sets of 10 unweighted squats, they're like "Whoa, man, I need a breather!"
On February 12 2018 04:28 Bonham wrote: Raced 11.5 miles in a hair under 67 minutes yesterday at the Race For The Whales in Maui. The course was tough, but it wasn't as hot as I feared it might be. I placed second, being unable to catch an evil Minnesotan wearing Vaporflies.
My time was slower than I hoped but faster than I feared. This was my slowest half marathon-type race in over five years. It really brought home how far I have to go to get back to where I was pre-injury.
The good news is both my Achilles tendons felt good throughout, and the fire still burns. I can't stop thinking about my next race and what I'm going to do to get faster. Right now I'm thinking about a 10-mile course in my hometown. Race is on April 22. It's a figure-eight course with lots of hills and twists. I ran 57 minutes there two years ago in the middle of a 180k week of training, so I think trying to beat that time or at least get within spitting distance of it would be a good goal.
Did you lose by 4% though?
Glad to hear you're healthy! For a tough course I'd say that's not a terrible pace coming back from injury. Might be in position to threaten PRs again over the latter half of the year if all goes well!
Haha, haven't done the math. I consoled myself with the thought that if we'd been racing before my injury, I would have dusted him no problem. This is a sure sign I'm over the hill, right?
On February 16 2018 02:52 mtmentat wrote: HELLO, Running Thread 2018!
Hello mtmentat! Great to hear you're back at it and bringing good vibes. Can't say I share your obsession with ultras, but I look forward to hearing about your adventures. Keep on rockin' in the free world, my dude.
Well folks, apparently nobody wants to talk to about their training or racing this year.
Mine was pretty good in Dec/Jan-Feb, but March with school hotting up hasn't been kind. Still gotten in some sessions and probably treading water, but no real jumps. Same for nutrition/weight, still sitting at 77kg or so.
Did finally open up with a pair of races though out in Lawrence, Kansas. Day 1 was a criterium race (basically a less than 1 mile loop course, usually defined by several corners) and day 2 was a road race defined by a half mile or so power climb at about 6% average, but really i's like 10% bottom, flattish middle, 10% kick to the line.
Crits are usually rough for me, because I struggle hard with nerves around corners when people start really smashing it and taking risks through turns. First couple laps I was nervy as hell since it had been a year since I raced, and we were in a mixed Collegiate B/4/5 category race (5's are beginning bike racers) so there was some sketchy racing going on with people doing dumb stuff in corners (imagine being shoulder to shoulder in a large group of riders at 30mph cornering hard and some guy changes his line such that now you're about to collide with him, but you can't really change yours because your about to be leaning into someone else). Lots of leaning on shoulders and jostling, but after a while it settled down a bit both my nerves and other people doing sketchy things. Eventually during a crosswind section another collegiate guy from USAFA went up the road, and I attacked and joined him. We had a decent gap of perhaps, 5 to 6 seconds, and I was here for a hard effort so I committed to the move and started driving hard. Luckily, the AF guy was willing to work with me so we were swapping turns for a bit, but I was definitely doing the heavy lifting. Held the gap for a few laps but then the pack reeled us back on a lap with a prime sprint. Bad news for me because I'd been working very hard on the rivet in the break, and now as soon as we rejoined the group attacks started flying for the prime. I didn't have anything to respond with and fell off, wondering if my race was over. Took a minute to recoup, then put my head down and TTed it for a few laps and was fortunately able to catch back on to the group as everyone was fairly gassed from the prime. Race chilled a bit from there, took one more flyer off the front that also didn't go anywhere, and then settled in for the sprint. Was toward the back though, and due to lack of race skill/confidence I didn't really move up the group as I needed to in order to be in good position for the final corner, which was with about 200m to go. Came through the corner in about 20th wheel or so, but about 40m back from the front wheels. Had a solid sprint, moving up to 9th...but no way are you making up 40m over a 200m sprint.
Result was 2nd collegiate and 9th OA. Not bad, got what I came for...some practice, confidence, and a hard effort.
Race #2 was the Perry Dam Road Race. 7 laps of a 5ish mile circuit. On paper, this is an ideal Eric race. Punchy half mile 6% finish that basically means a 90s finishing kick effort. I wasn't sure exactly how I would go though since I'm way "fatter" than last time I raced, about 9kg heavier. It was also a tougher field being mixed with the Collegiate Bs/3/4. No beginners though which was nice.
Race started off downhill on a very cold day, and again it was the first time I'd been at high speeds, 40+mph/70+kmh in a bunch. I just sat at the back tagged on, and eventually got a little more comfortable. A couple people tried to attack, but everyone was fresh so those were easily chased down and served as a nice warm up. As we came into the final climb for the first lap, I realized there was a little curve thrown into the mix...you turn onto the climb with a sharp 100 degree turn, the inside of which was very chewed up and gravely. Not good for someone lacking confidence in corners. I was on the inside, which means I had to take the most gravely line, so I had to scrub off most of my speed to feel/be safe. As a result, I came out at about 5mph, with the guys taking the cleaner, wider line being able to carry closer to 20mph. This meant I needed to sprint full gas for the first 15s to get back to the front in case action happened on the climb. Had someone gone REALLY hard, I might not have been able to respond. Fortunately, no one did. We went hard, but not ridiculous. The equivalent of running perhaps 1200m-1500m pace for 700m or something. Down the backside and onto the dam for lap 2. The dam was an interesting spot, being highly exposed with large drop offs on each side and a fairly strong 15mph crosswind coming across, with a bit of head component. In theory, with a few guys going for it and guttering intelligently, both across the dam and the return leg (after the dam, you basically did a 180 and went the exact same direction as the dam) could have been a spot to put some serious hurt on anybody caught out. Either nobody was aware of this, which seems unlikely, or no one had the desire or confidence to try. Basically this resulted in the race being quite easy (somewhere between a walking effort and a MP effort) the entire time except for the occasional chasing of an attack, or going up the climb. Laps 2 and 3 went by uneventfully, with the climb being taken at the same relatively easy pace. This told me one of two things: most of the field was hurting, or some guys were really saving it for the end. Fourth lap I decided to put in a dig on the climb and try to make things harder, I went at something more akin to 800m-1000m pace for a bit, and quickly had a gap back to the field of about 20m or so, except for one guy struggling to reach me. I backed of a smidge to let the guy working his way across bridge up to me, and try to see if we could get a break going. Wasn't to be. He was too gassed, and could only offer a token pull, at which point I decided it wasn't worth it and sat up and waited for the bunch to catch me across the dam. Lap 4, 5, and 6 rolled on with little happening. I wanted to make the climb harder, but nobody wanted to follow me so I just rode in the group and chilled up the climb, knowing that it's still an ideal finish for me.
Last lap, we came across the dam, around the 180 ish turn, and back on the downhill run and people started attacking and drilling it. I don't know why. Most of the drilling was done at just a hard/very hard pace...which doesn't accomplish anything. Everyone else just sits on the wheels going moderate. If you want to get away you have to start with a sprint. But we had 3 or 4 guys just pedalling hard at the front, much to my chagrin...as I had made a lapse in positioning and found myself toward the back of the group. This hard pace served to lock down the field, as if you want to move up, you have to swing into the wind and put in a pretty damn big effort to move up, just a few minutes before the final climb. If I'd have been in third wheel it would have been awesome because I would have been nicely kept right there in third, but as it as I was stuck at the back. People stayed on the gas all the way to the final kicker. I'd also made the mistake of positioning myself on the inside this lap...not good given the nature of the final corner. I was finally able to move up on the inside gutter, but was still stuck on the inside. The gravel of that final turn had me sketched out, and I did a similar thing to the first lap, losing most of my speed, and coming out of the turn in about 15th wheel, a good 30m/6-7s down and going 10mph slower. FUCK. I knew my chances of winning were probably shot, but I just put my head down and went as hard as I could the next minute and a half. Ended up picking off everybody but two guys, my teammate who won and a KS dude for a 3rd place finish, 2nd collegiate.
Overall I'm pretty satisfied with both races. A pair of 2nds collegiate, and 9th and 3rd OA aren't a bad start heavy and a year removed from my last race. Admittedly a little annoyed to have taken myself out having a chance to win either race by bad positioning. Second race especially was a nice affirmation of fitness, since heavy Eric finished much faster than anyone else including my teammate, who is a very very strong soon to be Cat 2 racer.
More racing and bike handling confidence will go a long way, so it's basically a question now of to what extent I can do that.
Congrats, L_Master! That seems like a great pair of efforts, even if you felt like you were treading water beforehand. Are you up at CSU now full time?
Way late to the party here, but I wanted to pipe and say thanks for writing those up, L_Master. I thoroughly enjoyed reading about your races. As a runner, I find the amount of tactics involved in bike racing mind-boggling. Don't think I'd be smart enough to be a bike racer.
As for me, I'm still continuing to chip away at my fitness. I've come to appreciate more and more, returning from my Achilles injury, how far I have to go to get back to where I was. Some days it even feels like I'm going backwards but most of the time it's pretty fun. I try to focus more on the process and less on the outcome.
I found out recently that I'm moving from Alberta to BC. We're living right next to the US border in one of Vancouver's endless suburbs. The racing scene around here is pretty strong, which should be fun. Just need to find a new group to run with.
I've also just set my race schedule for the rest of season. It looks like this:
May 6: BMO Vancouver half. Doing this just for fun, really. I haven't done much half-specific stuff for the last six weeks so I have no idea what I'll run. Hoping to at least scare 1:15.
July 7: Sin Seven Ultra. I'll run this as part of my usual relay team, assuming we get our act together on the organization front. No idea what leg I'll run, but it's always a great weekend.
July 15: Fort Langley Half. Another one just for fun. Some friends in the lower mainland are doing it so I'm going to tag along. Hoping to convince my girlfriend to sign up for this one; she hasn't run in years but keeps expressing interest in it.
August 18: Edmonton Half Marathon. Always a fun race. Hope to be in at least 1:13 shape here so I don't embarrass myself in front of my old running friends.
October 7: Victoria Marathon. I gather this is not a super-fast course, especially if the wind blows against you, but since I won't be able to run very fast maybe we'll be a good match. I'd love to get as close to 2:35 as I can here, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
And that's all I've got planned.
Anyone else running out there? Mentat, nony? L_Master, any more bike races on tap?
Right now it's just surviving finals, my fitness has gone to hell in a handbasket over the last month, but that's how it often goes with finals. It's just a month though so it pops right back after I get a couple weeks of solid training back in.
Summer plans remain to be seen, I'll definitely be working and taking a class, beyond that it depends on how much outside engineering stuff I need to do. If I can ride around 10 hours a week or so for solid training you'll probably see some racing out of me and more frequent posts in the thread as I get excited about my fitness, but it's also possible this will be a busy summer with me being more just a guy riding a bike for health reasons and to not get out of shape.
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Looks like you've got a solid running scheduled mapped out. Time to do some race damage and see exactly where that fitness is at. 2:35 and 1:13 wouldn't have you terribly far of your previous best form, so hopefully those races turn out strong for you and you're ready to think about potential fall or certainly spring 19' PRs.
I'm taking a bit of off-season time. My wife's due date is May 20 so this summer will be tough training with a newborn around disrupting sleep, etc.
After I ran a 1:10 half in early December, I was getting coaching for my next goal race, which was intended to be Cherry Blossom 10 miler. But the training I was given was just way too hard for me. I was giving feedback saying it was hard, thinking we'd back off if it looked like a problem to my coach, but we never backed off. I was completing workouts at good paces, but they were progressively more difficult. Like the start of the workout would feel like the middle or final third of a race. Eventually I went out for a workout and couldn't complete it, had to walk/jog home. Fired the coach, then took several weeks of barely running to recover and feel fresh again. I ran Cherry Blossom anyway after 2 months of ~30mpw jogging and managed a 55:01, which I was happy with. It's a pretty big step back from a 1:10 half, so I kinda wasted 4 months, but worse things could have happened.
Since then I'm back on a structured base-building schedule. Just gonna do some easier base building training throughout the summer and possibly the fall as well. Next race is San Jose Rock n Roll Half, October 7. Then I'm at Disney Wine and Dine Half in early November (can probably win this), then a Thanksgiving 10k, then I'll probably run a relay at CIM. After all that, I'm planning to shift gears to 1500m training for the winter and spring. No real goals for all that except to build aerobic fitness as much as possible ahead of the 1500m training.
1:20, or a scintillating 3:49/km. If you don't count the first half I ever ran, when I had no idea what I was up to, this is my slowest ever by seven minutes. It's also 10 seconds a kilometre *slower* than I averaged back in February for that 11 mile race in Hawaii, which was on a tougher course with way fewer people to run with. The last four months have training have made me way worse, it seems.
The best part was this chunky dude with a man bun, who told me he was trying to break 1:17 or something, giving me all this unsolicited racing advice. "Don't yoyo like that, you're wasting energy. Here, I'll lead this hill, then you take turn." I was moments away from murdering him when he passed me, so at least I was spared 25 years in jail. Then again, that would be 25 years with no racing, so maybe I'd wind up ahead of things.
A list of others who dropped me would be too long for the Internet to contain. Their teeming ranks include old ladies, balding fat plumbers, cripples, children, and triathletes.
Starting to wonder if the window on running fast has just closed for me. My body just doesn't seem to respond to training anymore. Maybe my birth certificate is wrong and I'm actually 50 or something.
Also...Jesus! That guy would have pissed me off sooo goddamn muchl, especially mid race. It's weird though that a tubby guy running sub 1:20 is giving advice like that. He's either been around running long enough to know that shit would be annoying and stupid...or he's pretty damn talented and doesn't know it. Either way though...I probably would have killed him.
I can't tell to what degree this RR is in jest. I'm sure there is a lot of frustration there, but that's obscenely negative. If it's just venting some frustration than I can sympathize with you, because it was a terrible race for you and being used to running the times you have, I'm sure it felt more or less embarrassing.
Of course, you've been around the sport long enough to know that bad days happen. Occasionally even shit days. Clearly you didn't do anything stupid race wise/pace wise, so it's a question of what has the training been like since Hawaii? Did your workouts progress and you have felt okay in training? If yes, chalk up to a bad day, vent, move on.
If you feel like your workouts haven't gotten better...then it's time to ask, have you felt okay in training? Normal levels of fatigue, recovery, etc. Have life stressors been similar, good sleep, etc. If something is off there, I think it's worthwhile to check that rabbit hole first.
If you've felt like normal Bonham, but just slower, and your workouts haven't been getting better, then I'd say it's time to sit down and wonder if something is off.
I've had my share of races when I'm out of shape or training through a race and people "slower" than me are trying to help me have a better race. Not fun at all. In the 10 miler I just did, I was trying to run as hard as I could but my fitness was in kind of a weird place. My legs never got really tired and full of lactic acid but my heart rate was really high and I was breathing hard and using a lot of effort so I was afraid to rev up before the very end. Basically I felt like I wasn't running hard enough but I was also afraid to push harder. Anyway, I was drafting off a guy for a long time and then remembered a race where a guy drafted off of me and then had a ridiculous last mile, so much faster that it made it obvious he wasn't really trying throughout the race. And yet he was a pussy that drafted off of me for the entire headwind section of the course. So I vowed not to be that guy and I took the lead in a headwind for a while before I abandoned all caution at the end and finished a lot faster. Just a random story that came to mind on the topic of people running races while in a weird place or having weird goals in them.
Anyway, it might be that you need a slower build-up. Or just more patience. It's easy to underestimate just how many components need to be brought back up to speed before you can have a successful training cycle and race. I think that veteran runners have an expectation of particular variables of performance that come and go through typical cycles of training hard and training light. But when a serious injury requires a lot of time off, there are more variables that come in to play than normal, things that a somewhat consistent runner takes for granted. So it takes an extra long time to get back into the groove while those overlooked components get back up to speed. Making sure you keep a positive attitude will certainly help. Of course it's fine to feel down for a bit after a disappointing race but I hope you can get back into a mindset of growth soon.
Thanks for the words of wisdom, y'all. I was pretty frustrated with myself yesterday.
On reflection, I think that was due to not really knowing how fit I was. I jumped in this race just for fun, with no real build. I haven't done anything HM-specific since February. My coach has given me two workouts a week, usually one with two tempos ranging in length from 15 to 25 minutes apiece, and another with a bunch of hill running. That's good for building very generalized running fitness, but with no extended LT-type runs, it's not hugely useful for a half marathon.
Of course, I knew this going in. I was also battling a cold I picked up on a trip to NYC in late April. But, in the face of uncertainty, I overestimated my fitness and told myself, hey, maybe you can run 1:15. In retrospect I should have set more modest expectations or tried to do that zen thing and have no expectations.
That said, if I'd known I was going to run 1:20, I might not have gone through with the whole ordeal. When I realized, in the middle of the race, that 1:15 was totally not on the table, instead of accepting that and trying to grind out a 1:17 or whatever, I tilted and my morale collapsed and I just phoned it in.
In retrospect, this race reminds me of another half I ran two or three years back. I wanted to challenge 1:11, which was pretty ambitious. I probably could have run 1:12-mid on race day, but when I realized 1:11 wasn't happening, I felt very disappointed and shuffled home to a 1:13-high. I also got out-kicked by a bunch of people down the stretch, much like yesterday.
NonY, as you say, I need to do a better job of maintaining a growth mindset. Finding the balance between caring about running enough to want to do it as well as I can and not caring so much that a bad race throws me into depression is a challenge. Patience and perseverance will eventually out. I need to give myself (and my body) time.
L_Master: he wasn't that chubby. His BMI was probably in the low 20s. I was just grumpy yesterday.
This thread seems to have fallen into a summer slumber. But it will never die in my heart! Here's a quick update on my training for the Victoria marathon in October.
Things are looking up, on the whole. It's hot as stink here in BC right now so you can only really run fast in the morning. My fitness is coming around and I'm in the midst of my peak mileage for this training cycle (100 miles a week for six of eight weeks; one week down and seven to go). More importantly, I'm focusing more on enjoying the process and not getting so hung up on results.
Last week, I had my first marathon pace workout since coming back from injury: 20x1k @ MP, with 60 seconds rec. I surprised myself by running very comfortably under 3:40/k for the whole workout, which felt very aerobic. Average pace was a little under 3:37, with the last two in 3:32 and 3:26. That works out to sub-2:35 for a full marathon. I don't think that's tenable at this point, but I think sub-2:40 is realistic, and maybe scaring 2:35 is possible. But then Victoria has lots of rolling hills and can be windy, so who knows.
I only have one race left before Victoria, the Edmonton half in August. I'm trying not to think about what I might run there; my only goal is to race hard and have fun.
Somehow a good chunk of the summer is already gone! I hope all y'alls are having a great time running in the heat and getting ready for some fall races. If anyone has time for a training update, I'd love to read it!
My training hasn't been the most consistent this year so far but I did manage to PR in a half back in April. I ran a 1:43 and change which is a pretty major improvement considering my previous half PR was 1:56 from 2016. I know it's pedestrian compared to some of your times, but for me it was huge.
The crazy thing was I felt like I left time on the table running that 1:43 too. I was happy with the time, but my splits were kind of all over the place and I didn't run a very even effort. After five marathons I feel like I actually know exactly what I need nutrition wise to get me through longer runs (10+ miles) feeling great, what to eat on the run and when. Huge improvements from my first marathon(2013) when I literally ran with slices of banana in a bag in my pocket for 20 miles and when I tried to eat it got everywhere and was an utter disaster. Not sure if I ever posted a recap here but I'm still riding my high from the NYC marathon last year, it took five marathons for me but I finally cracked the 4 hour mark which felt awesome!
If I ever actually get serious and start doing structured workouts instead of just running 4-5 days a week at easy/medium paces I feel like I could definitely turn a corner with a number of my PR's. I have another half in late September and I'm hoping to run well there maybe another PR if I can keep up some consistency for the next couple months and train sort of how I trained for my last few full marathons but race a half. Also I STILL have not managed to crack 20 minutes for a 5k after all these years, I have come tantalizingly close multiple times (20:15, 20:30 etc) but mostly in the 21 minute ranges. But I can't expect to crack 20 for a 5k when I do literally zero interval training at the paces required, I have always focused my builds around marathons the last few years instead of really working out the speedy short stuff.. My excuse this year is the track near my house has been under renovation for the past couple months and I hate doing 400/800's on roads...
Honestly I'm not sure if that's the case for 5k. I'd be most curious to hear about how your overall mileage, workout paces, and workout volume has change over the last couple years.
From the sound of it, I get the impression you generally go out and run without any real structure. Perhaps in your marathon training you're adding some longer, harder repeats in there...but are you really progression the workouts consistently over time?
That's a huge improvement in the half, but it's hard to know where it came from. Was it due to better pacing (even if it could still be better), was it due to a little more time spent at higher mileage, was it due to a better engine etc. How did your overall mileage and workout paces change between the 1:40 low and 1:56?
I knew I was going to obliterate my half PR, pretty much all of those aspects you mentioned I improved upon, even just going two years straight injury free helped, but I also was running more mileage, and not only that but my shortest weekly runs now tend to be at least 5’miles, compared to a few years ago most of my runs were shorter, under 3 miles at a time for the most part outside of once a week longer run on weekend. Even just knowing what to expect now on longer runs makes training and racing 10+ mile distances better. And I ran two full marathons between that time so I was running quite a bit just wasn’t focused on racing the half distance.
I think one of the biggest things was I was also able to carry some of my big mileage from last fall (50-60miles a week)through the winter relatively well even though my actual running mileage wasn’t as high the whole time I was still doing twice a week core work and eating well.
Given that, especially if you've been able to run faster times during your actual HMP/MP work or other repeats, you should be able to crack 20', or be exceptionally close to it right now.
I'm not sure what you mean by carrying mileage through the winter. To me that means you kept running 50-60 miles per week. I think what you may have meant was that you managed to carry some fitness through. In all honesty though, the good eating definitely doesn't make a difference. If anything, it would allow better recovery which means that the 50-60 mpw you did before with a poorer diet was a greater stressor than it would be with a perfect diet. Combine that with less mileage like you said and the stress of winter running was much less. This might lead to fresh legs and better feelings while running, but you probably gave away a small bit of "fitness".
Core work I don't have a huge opinion on. I'm not sure it really makes a difference in most cases. It's very hard to quantify though because peoples training is always changing so if they do core work and improve it's hard to pin whether that was on core work on their training working.
As far as my training goes. It's been pretty spotty since about March.
Some racing here and there, mostly crits for the bike handling and race work. All the major good road races are in spring. Summer only has hill climbs (which are expensive, and pure tests of w/kg with no real tactics) and crits. Obviously skipped the hill climbs since I'm not in shape to be competitive, and don't want to lay down $70 when I haven't been training well and know on a good day I probably couldn't get within even 10% of old PRs.
Basically nothing resembling training until the last 4 weeks or so. Powerwise, I seem to be about 5-10% off my peak fitness and lacking the endurance I would have, which is expected given I've been doing 3-5 hours a week as opposed to 10-15 a week. Going to try and keep something going until September on the bike, and then if I can shed a few pounds do a running cycle from late September into early December.
On July 26 2018 08:39 LuckyFool wrote: My training hasn't been the most consistent this year so far but I did manage to PR in a half back in April. I ran a 1:43 and change which is a pretty major improvement considering my previous half PR was 1:56 from 2016. I know it's pedestrian compared to some of your times, but for me it was huge.
Hey man, PBs are PBs! Unless your name is "Kipchoge" or similar, we're all ultimately puds in the grand scheme of things. Sweet moves out there!
I'm not as knowledgable as L_Master about the nitty-gritty of training, but I can say with confidence that running a workout on occasion can make a huge difference. If you're interested in running faster but don't want to engage with the hassle/expense of finding a coach, there are lots of great books on training theory out there. Lots of people swear by Hansons Marathon Method. I can personally vouch for Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning. There is also a road racing version that focuses on the 5k, 10k and half marathon.
On July 27 2018 05:10 L_Master wrote: As far as my training goes. It's been pretty spotty since about March.
Some racing here and there, mostly crits for the bike handling and race work. All the major good road races are in spring. Summer only has hill climbs (which are expensive, and pure tests of w/kg with no real tactics) and crits. Obviously skipped the hill climbs since I'm not in shape to be competitive, and don't want to lay down $70 when I haven't been training well and know on a good day I probably couldn't get within even 10% of old PRs.
Basically nothing resembling training until the last 4 weeks or so. Powerwise, I seem to be about 5-10% off my peak fitness and lacking the endurance I would have, which is expected given I've been doing 3-5 hours a week as opposed to 10-15 a week. Going to try and keep something going until September on the bike, and then if I can shed a few pounds do a running cycle from late September into early December.
Glad to hear you're keeping a hand in! I can totally relate to the "man I'm not going to PB here what's the point" feeling. For me, I think it's ultimately not constructive to think that way. If I only raced when I had a good shot at a PB, I wouldn't race until 2019! I'm trying to tell myself that PBs will come, if they come again at all, with consistent, sustainable training.
R.e. running, have you picked a specific race or distance for December? I sometimes think beyond my fall marathon and wonder what I should do in the winter. I'm committed to doing something over the cold months, but I haven't decided what yet. I now live somewhere that only gets a light dusting of snow two or three times each winter, so keeping up training should be easier. But a spring marathon still seems kind of intimidating. We live about a mile from a very nice track, and I sometimes wonder whether a good chunk of 5k training might eventually pay dividends in the marathon....
Definitely 5k stuff. Honestly would love to do mile but that doesn't really exist. There is the CSU Homecoming 5k in mid October that I always like, and tbh that would be the race I would most like to target but I'm not willing to start dropping off on the bike in July to have 3-4 months of a cycle for a peak in October.
Usually the YMCA in my hometown has a 3 week race series on Halloween weekend, Thanksgiving, and then a Jingle Bell early December race so probably those three + maybe a crack at a flat, faster one in mid December if such a race exists near my area and I get into near PR shape.
On July 27 2018 05:07 L_Master wrote: Given that, especially if you've been able to run faster times during your actual HMP/MP work or other repeats, you should be able to crack 20', or be exceptionally close to it right now.
I'm not sure what you mean by carrying mileage through the winter. To me that means you kept running 50-60 miles per week. I think what you may have meant was that you managed to carry some fitness through. In all honesty though, the good eating definitely doesn't make a difference. If anything, it would allow better recovery which means that the 50-60 mpw you did before with a poorer diet was a greater stressor than it would be with a perfect diet. Combine that with less mileage like you said and the stress of winter running was much less. This might lead to fresh legs and better feelings while running, but you probably gave away a small bit of "fitness".
Core work I don't have a huge opinion on. I'm not sure it really makes a difference in most cases. It's very hard to quantify though because peoples training is always changing so if they do core work and improve it's hard to pin whether that was on core work on their training working.
You should let me coach you for a 5k sometime
yeah I meant carry the fitness through to some extent, or at least it felt like it because I wasn't running as high mileage (dropped to like 20mpw) but I still felt good on my long runs and when I started building the mileage back to 30+ things came easier than usual and I had one of my best springs ever all things considered.
I have a 5k on Sept 15th that I'd really like to go for sub 20, I ran it two years ago in 20:58 with a disaster of a 3rd mile, that was during the midst of marathon training through with little to no speedwork focus which doesn't have to be the case this year https://www.strava.com/activities/715281557
What sort of workouts would you recommend for the next 6 weeks for honing some 5k speed? I'm planning on keeping up at least 30 miles a week between now and then but could bump it up more if needed. I went to the track for the first time in 3 months earlier tonight and ran 8x400 with all of them in the 6:15-6:30/mile range but I wasn't pushing too hard on any of them and I'm also a good 10-15 pounds overweight from what I'd consider my ideal racing weight. I think if I start doing 1-2 workouts a week and lose the extra weight I might have a decent chance.
I preach it, but losing the weight is huge. At that weight you're giving up at least a minute on 5k from ideal racing weight.
Do you have any idea what you can run from 800 or for a mile? I'd be curious to know what you're anaerobic cap is. A good, hard mile time trial would be informative, and it's not a bad way to get a little speed.
Either way, I'd recommend 40-50mpw, although if you've been running 30mpw now that's a big step up especially combined with greater intensity. If you know you're pretty injury resistant, you could probably gradually build towards 45mpw over the next 4-5 weeks. If you have a history of injuries, especially when increasing training load, then I'd recommend staying in the low to mid 30s range.
Workout wise, that mile TT would be helpful, because it gives an idea where you're at cap wise and where to focus effort, but my assumption is given your training and race distances you're aerobic side is probably relatively high relative to your VO2 and anaerobic cap. Which has me thinking 3 workouts a week looking like:
3x1k @ 4:00/km, with 1 min easy jog recovery. This progresses to 4x1k, 5x1k, then 6x1k, then 7x1k, then 8x1k. If the first 4x1k is very hard, we'd need to adjust.
3x10' @ 7:30 pace. 2' slow jogging in between. Progress a little bit each time, e.g. 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18'.
6x800 @ 6:10 pace/95s per 400. 3' easy jog. Try to take a second or two off each 400 per week.
These are just guesses though without really having your fitness pegged. If you're anaerobic cap is higher those 800s could start faster. I know when I ran 17:56 I was doing 6x800 at 2:35 average, so that's like 40s/mile faster than 5k fitness, but I have a huge anaerobic capacity. I doubt somebody like Bonham, when he is in peak 5k shape could run something similar relative to his fitness like 6x800 in 2:10 w/2:30 recovery.
Damn. I was looking back at that to see what I was doing and shit that last workout I did a year and a half ago makes me so sad:
Went
6:07 6:04 4:24 4:22 3:36 3:32 2:43 2:37 71 69
Took 1' jog between all the reps. 2xMile, 2x1200, 2x1000, 2x800, 2x400. That's like 5:45 pace for 10k of work, and I noted that other than the last 69 I didn't feel like I was pushing anything too hard.
Then I got injured about 4 days later only a week out for a good, quick 5k race.
Just need to get back in shape weight wise, I was pushing 66-67kg at that time.
My quick update: I decided to start training for the mile now. I'm still gonna do those races (a few half marathons, a 10k) but I won't be specifically training for them. For now I'm dropping mileage a bit and making sure I get in a good VO2Max and LT every week. And then I plan to see how much mileage I can build without negatively affecting my quality days.
It went pretty well at the start but for some reason my left calf really tightened up and that achilles is really tight. After running through it for a while, it doesn't seem to be getting better (or worse) so I'm gonna bite the bullet and take some rest. I was pleased with where I started out with my VO2Max work. I did 6x1k averaging 3:04 and I felt smooth and strong. I think I could've done 8 reps just fine but I want to be conservative and my calf was hurting.
On July 28 2018 03:02 L_Master wrote: I preach it, but losing the weight is huge. At that weight you're giving up at least a minute on 5k from ideal racing weight.
Do you have any idea what you can run from 800 or for a mile? I'd be curious to know what you're anaerobic cap is. A good, hard mile time trial would be informative, and it's not a bad way to get a little speed.
Either way, I'd recommend 40-50mpw, although if you've been running 30mpw now that's a big step up especially combined with greater intensity. If you know you're pretty injury resistant, you could probably gradually build towards 45mpw over the next 4-5 weeks. If you have a history of injuries, especially when increasing training load, then I'd recommend staying in the low to mid 30s range.
Workout wise, that mile TT would be helpful, because it gives an idea where you're at cap wise and where to focus effort, but my assumption is given your training and race distances you're aerobic side is probably relatively high relative to your VO2 and anaerobic cap. Which has me thinking 3 workouts a week looking like:
3x1k @ 4:00/km, with 1 min easy jog recovery. This progresses to 4x1k, 5x1k, then 6x1k, then 7x1k, then 8x1k. If the first 4x1k is very hard, we'd need to adjust.
3x10' @ 7:30 pace. 2' slow jogging in between. Progress a little bit each time, e.g. 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18'.
6x800 @ 6:10 pace/95s per 400. 3' easy jog. Try to take a second or two off each 400 per week.
These are just guesses though without really having your fitness pegged. If you're anaerobic cap is higher those 800s could start faster. I know when I ran 17:56 I was doing 6x800 at 2:35 average, so that's like 40s/mile faster than 5k fitness, but I have a huge anaerobic capacity. I doubt somebody like Bonham, when he is in peak 5k shape could run something similar relative to his fitness like 6x800 in 2:10 w/2:30 recovery.
I should be able to handle a bump up to 45mpw over the next month or so, those workouts might be tough but doable, I’ll run the mile TT on Monday
On July 28 2018 03:02 L_Master wrote: I preach it, but losing the weight is huge. At that weight you're giving up at least a minute on 5k from ideal racing weight.
Do you have any idea what you can run from 800 or for a mile? I'd be curious to know what you're anaerobic cap is. A good, hard mile time trial would be informative, and it's not a bad way to get a little speed.
Either way, I'd recommend 40-50mpw, although if you've been running 30mpw now that's a big step up especially combined with greater intensity. If you know you're pretty injury resistant, you could probably gradually build towards 45mpw over the next 4-5 weeks. If you have a history of injuries, especially when increasing training load, then I'd recommend staying in the low to mid 30s range.
Workout wise, that mile TT would be helpful, because it gives an idea where you're at cap wise and where to focus effort, but my assumption is given your training and race distances you're aerobic side is probably relatively high relative to your VO2 and anaerobic cap. Which has me thinking 3 workouts a week looking like:
3x1k @ 4:00/km, with 1 min easy jog recovery. This progresses to 4x1k, 5x1k, then 6x1k, then 7x1k, then 8x1k. If the first 4x1k is very hard, we'd need to adjust.
3x10' @ 7:30 pace. 2' slow jogging in between. Progress a little bit each time, e.g. 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18'.
6x800 @ 6:10 pace/95s per 400. 3' easy jog. Try to take a second or two off each 400 per week.
These are just guesses though without really having your fitness pegged. If you're anaerobic cap is higher those 800s could start faster. I know when I ran 17:56 I was doing 6x800 at 2:35 average, so that's like 40s/mile faster than 5k fitness, but I have a huge anaerobic capacity. I doubt somebody like Bonham, when he is in peak 5k shape could run something similar relative to his fitness like 6x800 in 2:10 w/2:30 recovery.
I should be able to handle a bump up to 45mpw over the next month or so, those workouts might be tough but doable, I’ll run the mile TT on Monday
If the first round of them is tough we will probably want to adjust slightly easier, but we can find that out as we go. I generally think most workouts should be a good effort, but clearly under control and not draining the reserves.
For the mile, just make sure your first 200 is 45s and first 400 is 90s. Third lap is where you have to dig, and fourth you just throw whatever you got left at it. I think going out at 6:00 pace is reasonable. If it's a bit easy you'll close hard, and there is no way you can't run close to 6:10-6:20 at absolute worst.
On July 28 2018 03:02 L_Master wrote: I preach it, but losing the weight is huge. At that weight you're giving up at least a minute on 5k from ideal racing weight.
Do you have any idea what you can run from 800 or for a mile? I'd be curious to know what you're anaerobic cap is. A good, hard mile time trial would be informative, and it's not a bad way to get a little speed.
Either way, I'd recommend 40-50mpw, although if you've been running 30mpw now that's a big step up especially combined with greater intensity. If you know you're pretty injury resistant, you could probably gradually build towards 45mpw over the next 4-5 weeks. If you have a history of injuries, especially when increasing training load, then I'd recommend staying in the low to mid 30s range.
Workout wise, that mile TT would be helpful, because it gives an idea where you're at cap wise and where to focus effort, but my assumption is given your training and race distances you're aerobic side is probably relatively high relative to your VO2 and anaerobic cap. Which has me thinking 3 workouts a week looking like:
3x1k @ 4:00/km, with 1 min easy jog recovery. This progresses to 4x1k, 5x1k, then 6x1k, then 7x1k, then 8x1k. If the first 4x1k is very hard, we'd need to adjust.
3x10' @ 7:30 pace. 2' slow jogging in between. Progress a little bit each time, e.g. 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18'.
6x800 @ 6:10 pace/95s per 400. 3' easy jog. Try to take a second or two off each 400 per week.
These are just guesses though without really having your fitness pegged. If you're anaerobic cap is higher those 800s could start faster. I know when I ran 17:56 I was doing 6x800 at 2:35 average, so that's like 40s/mile faster than 5k fitness, but I have a huge anaerobic capacity. I doubt somebody like Bonham, when he is in peak 5k shape could run something similar relative to his fitness like 6x800 in 2:10 w/2:30 recovery.
I should be able to handle a bump up to 45mpw over the next month or so, those workouts might be tough but doable, I’ll run the mile TT on Monday
My concern isn't the bump itself. I'm sure doing your normal routine you could handle that no problem. It's the bump combined with adding in some faster running. That's often on skating on thin ice with injuries. The good news is you've been their before, but be careful. Only add mileage to the easy days if you feel good and recovered, and keep stuff on the easy side of easy. Assuming a typical Tue/Thu/Sun hard run split, then I would say M/W should be very easy, not longer than 4M and not faster than 9:45 pace. Friday probably should start that slow, but if you're feeling good you could get down to 8:xx range by the end. Saturday if not feeling well keep above 9, but if you feel recovered averaging 8:15-8:45 is ok.
No non workout runs should be quicker than 8:00 pace.
6 weeks is not enough time for a mileage bump to benefit you much. I would vary the mileage a lot over the 6 weeks. Start where you know you're comfortable and then do an aggressive build up to a big peak week and then come down again from there. Running big mileage the 2 weeks before the race won't help you in your race -- it can only sabotage the workouts that would help you and sabotage the race itself. Do a big week 3 weeks out, and then reduce mileage for the final 2 weeks so that you stay sharp and continue to have good workouts. That's the best thing for your race. If you want to continue training after the race, then take a few easy days recovery from the race and then build your mileage back up.
Also I'd stress that your easy days can't be too easy. I'm an extreme case with how slow I like to do my easy days, but I think I'm in about 15:30 5k shape right now and 3 days a week I run 7:50-8:30 pace. There are elites who can run low 13:00 5k and even they utilize 8:00 pace sometimes.
On July 28 2018 05:19 NonY wrote: My quick update: I decided to start training for the mile now. I'm still gonna do those races (a few half marathons, a 10k) but I won't be specifically training for them. For now I'm dropping mileage a bit and making sure I get in a good VO2Max and LT every week. And then I plan to see how much mileage I can build without negatively affecting my quality days.
Whoa, far out! What made you change your distance? Do you have a goal time or race in mind? Outside of school and Diamond League/WC/Olympic-level racing, the mile is pretty niche. Really curious to follow your training and see what you can do!
On July 29 2018 02:46 NonY wrote: 6 weeks is not enough time for a mileage bump to benefit you much. I would vary the mileage a lot over the 6 weeks. Start where you know you're comfortable and then do an aggressive build up to a big peak week and then come down again from there.
I agree that the mileage bump won't benefit him for the 5k, but I'm assuming he is going to seguway this straight into his build for his next half, of adding a little mileage if his body handles it isn't bad.
With that in mind, I also don't see the need for an aggressive build up. Just good, steady, consistent progression gets it done with less injury risk and leading right into his HM/M work.
Running big mileage the 2 weeks before the race won't help you in your race -- it can only sabotage the workouts that would help you and sabotage the race itself.
For a guy that's done 50-60mpw I wouldn't consider 40-45 mpw big mileage. I agree with the principle though, but that's why I encourage him to pay attention to his body and his recovery, and if a few extra easy miles are hurting recovery back off on them.
Do a big week 3 weeks out, and then reduce mileage for the final 2 weeks so that you stay sharp and continue to have good workouts. That's the best thing for your race.
This training he is doing is going to be on 30-45mpw for a guy used to 50+. The global volume is not high. He's not going to be struggling with a large build up of fatigue. In this context, I disagree with the need to reduce mileage at all, at that mileage and volume relative to what he has run, backing down in the last 2 weeks will only cause a loss of fitness. At 40mpw, if you have a goal race on Saturday with a Tue/Thu workout scheme you might want to take Thursday as an easy day. Solid workouts in race week, with a subtle reduction in volume of the Tuesday workout (think 4x800, 4x400 or something) is MORE than enough to be 100% sharp for a runner like LF.
This is a different situation from a very serious collegiate runner pushing a big cycle at 70-100mpw with a major meet coming up, where I agree two weeks would be highly advisable.
If you want to continue training after the race, then take a few easy days recovery from the race and then build your mileage back up.
Yep. I would take 1-2 days off after your race, 1-2 days recovery, then back into training cycle for HM/M.
Also I'd stress that your easy days can't be too easy. I'm an extreme case with how slow I like to do my easy days, but I think I'm in about 15:30 5k shape right now and 3 days a week I run 7:50-8:30 pace. There are elites who can run low 13:00 5k and even they utilize 8:00 pace sometimes.
Agree strongly, tried to emphasize this with the paces I gave. Until you're running 100+ mpw with great workouts and other variables in place, running your easy runs fast just doesn't serve a purpose other than to make it harder to recovery from and execute good workouts.
On July 28 2018 05:19 NonY wrote: My quick update: I decided to start training for the mile now. I'm still gonna do those races (a few half marathons, a 10k) but I won't be specifically training for them. For now I'm dropping mileage a bit and making sure I get in a good VO2Max and LT every week. And then I plan to see how much mileage I can build without negatively affecting my quality days.
Whoa, far out! What made you change your distance? Do you have a goal time or race in mind? Outside of school and Diamond League/WC/Olympic-level racing, the mile is pretty niche. Really curious to follow your training and see what you can do!
I enjoy the training for mid distance more. I'm equally open to doing the 1500. I'm not gonna actually only do mile races. I haven't picked out any particular meets yet but there are a bunch in my area so I'm just planning to train for the 2019 spring and summer track season and I'll figure out the details later. I'll have to see what kind of shape I'm in and pick an appropriate meet.
On July 28 2018 05:19 NonY wrote: My quick update: I decided to start training for the mile now. I'm still gonna do those races (a few half marathons, a 10k) but I won't be specifically training for them. For now I'm dropping mileage a bit and making sure I get in a good VO2Max and LT every week. And then I plan to see how much mileage I can build without negatively affecting my quality days.
Whoa, far out! What made you change your distance? Do you have a goal time or race in mind? Outside of school and Diamond League/WC/Olympic-level racing, the mile is pretty niche. Really curious to follow your training and see what you can do!
I enjoy the training for mid distance more. I'm equally open to doing the 1500. I'm not gonna actually only do mile races. I haven't picked out any particular meets yet but there are a bunch in my area so I'm just planning to train for the 2019 spring and summer track season and I'll figure out the details later. I'll have to see what kind of shape I'm in and pick an appropriate meet.
Open College meets or do you actually have track meets for the public where you live?
On July 28 2018 05:19 NonY wrote: My quick update: I decided to start training for the mile now. I'm still gonna do those races (a few half marathons, a 10k) but I won't be specifically training for them. For now I'm dropping mileage a bit and making sure I get in a good VO2Max and LT every week. And then I plan to see how much mileage I can build without negatively affecting my quality days.
Whoa, far out! What made you change your distance? Do you have a goal time or race in mind? Outside of school and Diamond League/WC/Olympic-level racing, the mile is pretty niche. Really curious to follow your training and see what you can do!
I enjoy the training for mid distance more. I'm equally open to doing the 1500. I'm not gonna actually only do mile races. I haven't picked out any particular meets yet but there are a bunch in my area so I'm just planning to train for the 2019 spring and summer track season and I'll figure out the details later. I'll have to see what kind of shape I'm in and pick an appropriate meet.
Open College meets or do you actually have track meets for the public where you live?
There are actual open meets, like Cal Berkeley has 3 of them in January-February. Ideally I'll do one of those to have an official time that can get me into a better meet later in the season.
Went out a bit fast maybe, I had literally nothing left for the 4th lap but managed to at least hold it together for the most part, splits were around 1:27, 1:29, 1:32, 1:34
On July 31 2018 09:56 LuckyFool wrote: Mile TT done in 6:03
Went out a bit fast maybe, I had literally nothing left for the 4th lap but managed to at least hold it together for the most part, splits were around 1:27, 1:29, 1:32, 1:34
Attabe, LuckyFool! If those splits are accurate, I'd say you ran a very respectable race. Everyone talks a lot of sugar about negative splits, but there's this to be said in favor of their opposite: when you run a positive split, you know you had nothing left in the tank.
What was the field like? Was it a solo effort? If you raced anyone, did you grab any scalps in the last lap?
I've been running at the Beach in fire island where my family goes for vacation and that's been very fun and fitness enhancing, with slopes and challenging and moving terrain beneath your feet. Great way for me to train as a runner and endurance athlete after being dormant/retired/lazy for far too long of a while.
On July 31 2018 09:56 LuckyFool wrote: Mile TT done in 6:03
Went out a bit fast maybe, I had literally nothing left for the 4th lap but managed to at least hold it together for the most part, splits were around 1:27, 1:29, 1:32, 1:34
Attabe, LuckyFool! If those splits are accurate, I'd say you ran a very respectable race. Everyone talks a lot of sugar about negative splits, but there's this to be said in favor of their opposite: when you run a positive split, you know you had nothing left in the tank.
What was the field like? Was it a solo effort? If you raced anyone, did you grab any scalps in the last lap?
Solo effort, mainly to judge where my current fitness is for those workout paces L_Master was recommending a couple days ago
On July 31 2018 09:56 LuckyFool wrote: Mile TT done in 6:03
Went out a bit fast maybe, I had literally nothing left for the 4th lap but managed to at least hold it together for the most part, splits were around 1:27, 1:29, 1:32, 1:34
Attabe, LuckyFool! If those splits are accurate, I'd say you ran a very respectable race. Everyone talks a lot of sugar about negative splits, but there's this to be said in favor of their opposite: when you run a positive split, you know you had nothing left in the tank.
What was the field like? Was it a solo effort? If you raced anyone, did you grab any scalps in the last lap?
I agree with Bonham. Those split's aren't "ideal" pacing, but they aren't way off either. Yea, maybe you gave away 5s over an optimum race, but it wasn't like you did 78, 98, 98, 96 or something. As he said, also the kind of effort you know you left nothing in the tank for. Good effort!
Makes it clear you're not an anaerobic monster, I'd say that's a pretty typical mile time for a guy who is in 20:xx range.
I would also say that I think you've got a decent shot of running sub 20, and almost a certain chance of it if you also drop 5-10 of those pounds you were talking about having just gained.
Crash today in Crit race. Smashed into a brick wall with my left side going about 40kph. All things considered feeling pretty fortunate, no breaks or serious injuries...just some deep bruising. Will be a painful next week but should be able to at least get on the training hopefully tomorrow and at worst by weekend.
Crash today in Crit race. Smashed into a brick wall with my left side going about 40kph. All things considered feeling pretty fortunate, no breaks or serious injuries...just some deep bruising. Will be a painful next week but should be able to at least get on the training hopefully tomorrow and at worst by weekend.
Glad to hear the damage isn't too serious. What caused the crash? Was it your fault or someone else's? Reminds me of those few times when I've gone 50 kph+ on my bike going downhill or whatnot. When that happens I always find myself thinking, "you know, if I sneezed right now, I would lose an awful lot of skin."
Crash today in Crit race. Smashed into a brick wall with my left side going about 40kph. All things considered feeling pretty fortunate, no breaks or serious injuries...just some deep bruising. Will be a painful next week but should be able to at least get on the training hopefully tomorrow and at worst by weekend.
Glad to hear the damage isn't too serious. What caused the crash? Was it your fault or someone else's? Reminds me of those few times when I've gone 50 kph+ on my bike going downhill or whatnot. When that happens I always find myself thinking, "you know, if I sneezed right now, I would lose an awful lot of skin."
Guy 5 or 6 wheels up took a bad line or hit something, ended up going wide towards the wall, clipped it and causes a pile-up. Video coming later.
I was two wheels behind this guy. Guy that went down first was wide, and I think missed that there were these little parts where the brick wall poked out an inch and one of those grab his bars and yanked him over setting everything in motion.
So it looks like L_Master is mostly aware of how my last week went already by reviewing my Strava data but I was planning on writing up a recap here anyway so here goes...
Only one of the workouts last week went really well unfortunately but it wasn't all horrible.
Tuesday -3x1k. I started quick on a couple of the reps but it got hard fast, 4:00/km pace felt very difficult, first two reps weren't a disaster but they were off pace (4:12/km, 4:15/km) but the 3rd was horrible and I kind of just plodded through that one WAY off pace (4:44/km). One item to note for this workout was I ran this on a gravel loop near a middle school and it was my first time running there in a while, normally it's a great spot for faster stuff without pounding on a road but I guess due to all the rain we've had recently there were some big wet areas which weren't ideal. I'll definitely need to avoid running there a day or two after rain moving forward. Would like to take a stab at this 4x1k next time on a track or somewhere I don't have to worry about slippery or wet conditions.
Thursday -3x10' @ 7:30/pace. This workout went amazingly well, it almost felt easy. The pace was hard enough but not unreasonable and I finished the 3rd rep feeling like I could have done at least one more without much trouble. By far the best of the three workouts of the week. Did this on a track, but will work this into my regular loop moving forward and do just two track visits a week for the 800 repeats and the k workouts.
Sunday was the 6x800 which ended up being the 4x800. Just did not feel good for whatever reason halfway through the 3rd rep I knew it was going to be a struggle so I just shut it down after 4 instead of grind through the last two. I suspect a combination of bad nutrition (dehydration) with some crazy humidity (heat index was like 90F at 9AM yesterday) played a factor here, but it was a bit alarming on how poorly I felt considering I went into that after a day off on Saturday. Legs felt good it was just everything else... 3:14, 3:06, 3:22, 3:34
Got your PM L_Master, will take that advice going into this week and make the adjustments. Legs are feeling good after last week and I'm happy to be mixing in some faster stuff finally. Today was a rest day (right now trying to run 6 days a week), tomorrow I'll take a stab at the revised 4x1k focusing on even pacing @ 4:10/km.
I did a 22 mile ride with some family the other day, but it was a super leisurely pace even relative to me (who is by no means a quality cyclist). It helped me realize how much more I enjoy cycling compared to running though
Yea cycling is much more fun than running unless you're lean, reasonably fit, and have a body that tolerates running well.
Working your ass off to run barely slower than a walking pace (most newer runners) is pretty miserable for most people, especially when the alternative is ripping around at high speeds on a bike where you're not punished for the extra weight
Race week race week race weeeeeeeeek! It's race week for the Edmonton half marathon, always one of my favorite races. The race goes down on Sunday. How pumped am I, you ask? Extremely pumped, I reply.
My coach has suggested running the first half at 1:15 pace and then cranking it up if I feel good. This strikes me as extremely sensible, and I will do my best to execute.
Unfortunately, this will mean conceding the race to my friend S. He's 45 years old and kicking amazing amounts of ass. He might break 1:12 at the race.
This is only unfortunate from a very specific and very silly perspective, of course. If I'm anywhere near as fast as S when I'm his age I will be well pleased with myself. He is an amazing athlete and a huge inspiration.
But I'm also slightly chagrined that he's going to scalp me in a race again. The last time this happened was a 10 miler in the spring of 2016, a few months before I got injured. I'd been running lots of base miles and had, I think, 100 miles in my legs before the race started. My plan was to ride him like a show pony for the first 14k and then dust him with a strong finish. The plan was going great until 6k, when my legs informed me that they were formally resigning from the race. I shuffled across the finish line well back of S, swearing that I'd get him the next time we raced.
That next time has turned out to be this time! It is looking increasingly dubious that I'll ever beat him in a race. If current projections hold, he'll be running 1:10 when he's 50 and I will have no chance.
On August 14 2018 03:29 L_Master wrote: Go get it!! Hope it goes better for you than the last one! Plan seems like a smart one indeed.
Thanks man! We'll see how it goes. Can't be worse than the last one. Even if I have a stinker of a day, I'm determined to have fun and high five my running buddies.
On August 02 2018 07:38 L_Master wrote: I was two wheels behind this guy. Guy that went down first was wide, and I think missed that there were these little parts where the brick wall poked out an inch and one of those grab his bars and yanked him over setting everything in motion.
Fuck complete summersault! I have phobia with this thats why I always turn narrow when its crowded. I dont care adding a couple of seconds to my time if it means no broken bones and bruised skin.
On August 02 2018 07:38 L_Master wrote: I was two wheels behind this guy. Guy that went down first was wide, and I think missed that there were these little parts where the brick wall poked out an inch and one of those grab his bars and yanked him over setting everything in motion.
Fuck complete summersault! I have phobia with this thats why I always turn narrow when its crowded. I dont care adding a couple of seconds to my time if it means no broken bones and bruised skin.
That dude really had it rough:
Facial Lacerations
Chipped tooth
Separated Shoulder
Broken Arm + Sprained Wrist
Bruised Ribs
Huge road rash on his quad
Broken bone in lower leg
3 broken bones in his foot (what actually caught the wall)
Pretty bad as far as crashes go. Fortunately people aren't usually that fucked up cycling.
MTB/Gravel Race for me on Saturday. Long one. 61 miles I think with 5000ft of climbing. Probably 4 hours +/- 30' for the finishing time depending on conditions. Mostly doing it because it's a cool route and many of my friends/teammates are. It's gotten popular and always draws a very strong field.
Still way to heavy (+12kg) over race weight to be in the mix for the event, especially combined with spotty training. It's not a technical course, so that shouldn't hurt me to bad. Will be a question of endurance and how I hold up over such a long duration given how small my training as been (avg like 4-5 hours a week at best since Feb). I think on a really good day I might have a shot at top 10, but realistically anything inside top 25 I'd be pretty happy with given this field.
I won't be holding back, but it's more about fitness + shredding it with friends + good course for this one.
Bonham probably has a race report coming but I'll throw mine in their too. As I posted about had the Rampart Rager 100k yesterday. From a results standpoint, it wasn't a good one. I finished 46th out of a field of about 200 starters. That said, it was a very strong field with a handful of MTB pros, a dozen or so of the local MTB studs, and then another five or ten guys that are regional or statewide road studs with great fitness (I'd say 15'-16' 5k analog), and then plenty of other guys that are fit local racers.
We also had Katie Compton who is a 14x consecutive US national champion in cyclocross and a multi-time world cyclocross championships medalist so that was pretty cool. A bit like if you showed up on the start line of your local 5k and Shalane Flanagan or Shelby Houlihan were there. Also Shannon Payne (dominant Colorado mountain runner) was racing which was interesting.
Race was a 63M course with approx 5500' climbing. 7M neutral start (basically where someone is in front and lolligags at like a 12:00 mile equivalent before pulling over and letting the racing begin). Field was about 200 in size, which was wild. It looked and felt like the Tour de France rolling through town...if everyone was riding MTBs. Different feeling being in a bunch of that size. Cool, but also intimidating to be pushed in with 3+ riders on both sides of you.
The basic setup of the parcours is 3M on roads in Garden of the Gods, basically starting with a short, punchy 6% half mile climb, then a fast downhill and a right onto gravel of Rampart Range Road which was a 12M climb at 5.5%. The course then had about 18M of "rollers" (uphill for half a mile, downhill for half a mile, etc.). Then a 6M descent of Mt Herman Road, mile or two on the roads in Monument, and then downhill gently (1%) on Santa Fe Trail down to the finish for about 15M or so.
---------------------------------------
Race Report
Race started out expected, aggressive up the first little climb. When I say aggressive, I mean it. It would be a little like starting out a 50M race with a 2:15 800. I was definitely in the red going over the top of that, especially with most of the top guys on CX bikes and not MTBs like I was. I had to do a little extra work as well to move up, as I'd needed a nature break and started towards the back of the field so I had to make up about 50m extra over that climb to be more or less with the "front" group. I had wanted to stay with that group thinking there would be some nice benefit towards getting a good free ride drafting through the downhill, but with the MTB and lack of gears compared to most other guys it ended up being a mistake. I went into the red for very little gain.
Had to work just to stay with the field due to bike and gears, so I hit the climb with HR close to 170, which in running terms for me would be like hitting a 1+ hour climb/starting a HM coming straight off 1200m at mile pace. In other words, I was already approaching redline with a lot of lactate/acid already. I tried to settle int a rhythm the first 5' but was too gassed, so I backed off to more like endurance pace or perhaps 2', before gradually finding a solid rhythm. Unfortunately, my legs already felt a bit heavy and sluggish and I knew I didn't have that "A game" feeling you'd be hoping for.
The next 1:15 was just brutal low threshold climbing. My pacing I'm usually confident in and I think I got it pretty damn good this time. I got passed by about 30 guys in the first 20', but ended up passing back a good 20-25' the remaining 45', as I just road a good solid tempo. The road had some nice sections, but it was a constant search to navigate and avoid washboards and rocks. It's not a pleasant feeling. It makes it hard to find rhythm and your constantly getting the saddle slammed into your ass when you're already deep into a HM type effort. Blissfully, the top 4M or so of the climb were much smoother and easier to keep rhythm. The climb wasn't good for me, I was probably 5M slower than I would have expected on a strong day, but I still went over the climb somewhere around 25-30th. I'd clearly worked hard, and was starting to feel the effects about 2 hours in, but I was going good, and had done a good job eating/drinking on the way up.
Speaking of which....eating when you're at threshold effort is really unpleasant. You get in maybe a chew, and then you have to figure out how to get in some air around this food before another chew. Took me like 6' to get a Honey Stinger Waffle (sort of like a cliff bar) down.
We then hit the rollers section of the course. Given my profile and current weight, I was planning for this to be a good section for me and move up some places before a brief rest on the downhill. I quickly found this wasn't happening. It was more up and down than I realized, and we already knew the guys in front were climbing faster than me because it had been all climbing to this point. More importantly the downhills were loose and there were lots of washboards, so I wasn't comfortable letting my bike out to high, high speeds and taking lines right on the edge of the road to dodge washboards. I started giving up a little time on downhills, and of course not making up much time on the uphills. Over the first 30' I think I had 10 guys go past me. I may also have not pushed the hills on this sections hard enough, as I was beginning to feel tired and was thinking about conserving something for the finish.
This section, as I mentioned, also had ridiculous washboards. Even with the front shock on my MTB some of the washboards were so bad they would slow you down to 5-10mph downhill and felt literally like a jackhammer all through my arms and hands, completely taking the feeling out of them in aggressive sections. When you're already tired, this gets old REALLY FUCKIN FAST. I spent quite a while cursing at the god forsaken washboards. They also made the course slow because washboards like that just destroy your speed. Come in at 20mph, hit a 20m section of bad washboards, come out at 5mph. The top guys all did this section about 30% faster which means that either they are comically better at finding good, washboard free lines....or there is a trick to getting over those that I don't know.
About halfway through this section the race started to go from "I'm getting tired, this is hard" to "I'm fucking miserable". Primarily because my back started to hate me. Probably a combination of being in a different position, lots of climbing, and those washboards but everything in my lower back, upper back, neck, and wrapping around to my chest started to hurt. I continued to put a decent bit into those rollers but now I was mentally struggling basically telling myself to just get down Herman and have someone come pick me up. Soldiered on, but at a reduced pace over the last 7 or 8 roller miles, and onto the descent.
The descent was 6M at 6% downhill. but on a very rocky, very rutted fire road. Not technical by MTB standards, but definitely plenty of skills, rocks, turns, loose, gravel, ruts, and other MTB challenges. I was tired, in pain, and not someone who has done a lot of MTB riding anyway, so I just took it safe. Another 2 guys past me, and I ceded another 5' to most of the guys in front of me. The pain in my back continued to increase. I was bordering on miserably uncomfortable and of course tired at this point. Still, I'd pedalled 3.5 hours already and didn't really want to pay $60 to not finish. Told myself I'd go another 2M and see where I was at.
Was now on more or less flat and gentle downhill roads. Took it VERY easy to Monument (fresh that would be almost a walking effort), though about pulling out some more, but said fuck it let's go another couple miles. Managed to pick it up a little more but I knew I wasn't pedalling as hard as my body could give due to the pain in my back. It just killed any desire to dig. I was tired AF and hurting so it still felt hard, but with that pain I didn't have the impetus to throttle myself the last hour. Made it to baptist, figured it was 45' and I'd been going for four hours so fuck it I'm going to miserable but I'm just going to grind this thing out. Lost another 5 or so places here, another good 15' lost to the top guys, and perhaps 5-10' to most guys due to skills (lots of sandy sections and loose gravel turns that I took it very, very safe through).
I hurt. I dug. I ground. I stayed in the moment. A half eternity later I was back on the paved trail that meant the finish was about a mile away. I finally believed I was going to finish and the pain was going to end, which made the last mile a bit of a relief and I rolled across the line in just under 4:45 in 46th place.
The result was poor, but I'm satisfied with how I raced. I didn't give into the temptation to DNF when things got hard, and I honestly think with the back pain I gave it just about all I could over the final hour and a half even if it wasn't much. Considering I came in here with months of 4-5 hour weeks, and this was a 5 hour day, I probably should have known something this could be an issue, especially on a different bike from normal. The other consolation is that I'm confident I lost at a minimum 10'-15' to lack of technical skills, which was the difference between 30th and 45th. A little less back pain and "average" level technical skills and I probably hit my target of top 25, so I don't think fitness was too off. Mostly technical skills lacking and issues with endurance/training on the correct bike.
Nice recap L_Master, as someone who has not ventured much at all into the realm of cycling I definitely appreciate all of the running comparisons! Nice job pushing through when things got tough, the cycling scene in Colorado sounds very competitive, I know there are some huge groups in the DC area, one day if I ever get sick of running and buy a bike maybe I'll look them up...
On August 27 2018 03:03 L_Master wrote: Bonham probably has a race report coming but I'll throw mine in their too. As I posted about had the Rampart Rager 100k yesterday. From a results standpoint, it wasn't a good one. I finished 46th out of a field of about 200 starters. That said, it was a very strong field with a handful of MTB pros, a dozen or so of the local MTB studs, and then another five or ten guys that are regional or statewide road studs with great fitness (I'd say 15'-16' 5k analog), and then plenty of other guys that are fit local racers.
We also had Katie Compton who is a 14x consecutive US national champion in cyclocross and a multi-time world cyclocross championships medalist so that was pretty cool. A bit like if you showed up on the start line of your local 5k and Shalane Flanagan or Shelby Houlihan were there. Also Shannon Payne (dominant Colorado mountain runner) was racing which was interesting.
Race was a 63M course with approx 5500' climbing. 7M neutral start (basically where someone is in front and lolligags at like a 12:00 mile equivalent before pulling over and letting the racing begin). Field was about 200 in size, which was wild. It looked and felt like the Tour de France rolling through town...if everyone was riding MTBs. Different feeling being in a bunch of that size. Cool, but also intimidating to be pushed in with 3+ riders on both sides of you.
The basic setup of the parcours is 3M on roads in Garden of the Gods, basically starting with a short, punchy 6% half mile climb, then a fast downhill and a right onto gravel of Rampart Range Road which was a 12M climb at 5.5%. The course then had about 18M of "rollers" (uphill for half a mile, downhill for half a mile, etc.). Then a 6M descent of Mt Herman Road, mile or two on the roads in Monument, and then downhill gently (1%) on Santa Fe Trail down to the finish for about 15M or so.
---------------------------------------
Race Report
Race started out expected, aggressive up the first little climb. When I say aggressive, I mean it. It would be a little like starting out a 50M race with a 2:15 800. I was definitely in the red going over the top of that, especially with most of the top guys on CX bikes and not MTBs like I was. I had to do a little extra work as well to move up, as I'd needed a nature break and started towards the back of the field so I had to make up about 50m extra over that climb to be more or less with the "front" group. I had wanted to stay with that group thinking there would be some nice benefit towards getting a good free ride drafting through the downhill, but with the MTB and lack of gears compared to most other guys it ended up being a mistake. I went into the red for very little gain.
Had to work just to stay with the field due to bike and gears, so I hit the climb with HR close to 170, which in running terms for me would be like hitting a 1+ hour climb/starting a HM coming straight off 1200m at mile pace. In other words, I was already approaching redline with a lot of lactate/acid already. I tried to settle int a rhythm the first 5' but was too gassed, so I backed off to more like endurance pace or perhaps 2', before gradually finding a solid rhythm. Unfortunately, my legs already felt a bit heavy and sluggish and I knew I didn't have that "A game" feeling you'd be hoping for.
The next 1:15 was just brutal low threshold climbing. My pacing I'm usually confident in and I think I got it pretty damn good this time. I got passed by about 30 guys in the first 20', but ended up passing back a good 20-25' the remaining 45', as I just road a good solid tempo. The road had some nice sections, but it was a constant search to navigate and avoid washboards and rocks. It's not a pleasant feeling. It makes it hard to find rhythm and your constantly getting the saddle slammed into your ass when you're already deep into a HM type effort. Blissfully, the top 4M or so of the climb were much smoother and easier to keep rhythm. The climb wasn't good for me, I was probably 5M slower than I would have expected on a strong day, but I still went over the climb somewhere around 25-30th. I'd clearly worked hard, and was starting to feel the effects about 2 hours in, but I was going good, and had done a good job eating/drinking on the way up.
Speaking of which....eating when you're at threshold effort is really unpleasant. You get in maybe a chew, and then you have to figure out how to get in some air around this food before another chew. Took me like 6' to get a Honey Stinger Waffle (sort of like a cliff bar) down.
We then hit the rollers section of the course. Given my profile and current weight, I was planning for this to be a good section for me and move up some places before a brief rest on the downhill. I quickly found this wasn't happening. It was more up and down than I realized, and we already knew the guys in front were climbing faster than me because it had been all climbing to this point. More importantly the downhills were loose and there were lots of washboards, so I wasn't comfortable letting my bike out to high, high speeds and taking lines right on the edge of the road to dodge washboards. I started giving up a little time on downhills, and of course not making up much time on the uphills. Over the first 30' I think I had 10 guys go past me. I may also have not pushed the hills on this sections hard enough, as I was beginning to feel tired and was thinking about conserving something for the finish.
This section, as I mentioned, also had ridiculous washboards. Even with the front shock on my MTB some of the washboards were so bad they would slow you down to 5-10mph downhill and felt literally like a jackhammer all through my arms and hands, completely taking the feeling out of them in aggressive sections. When you're already tired, this gets old REALLY FUCKIN FAST. I spent quite a while cursing at the god forsaken washboards. They also made the course slow because washboards like that just destroy your speed. Come in at 20mph, hit a 20m section of bad washboards, come out at 5mph. The top guys all did this section about 30% faster which means that either they are comically better at finding good, washboard free lines....or there is a trick to getting over those that I don't know.
About halfway through this section the race started to go from "I'm getting tired, this is hard" to "I'm fucking miserable". Primarily because my back started to hate me. Probably a combination of being in a different position, lots of climbing, and those washboards but everything in my lower back, upper back, neck, and wrapping around to my chest started to hurt. I continued to put a decent bit into those rollers but now I was mentally struggling basically telling myself to just get down Herman and have someone come pick me up. Soldiered on, but at a reduced pace over the last 7 or 8 roller miles, and onto the descent.
The descent was 6M at 6% downhill. but on a very rocky, very rutted fire road. Not technical by MTB standards, but definitely plenty of skills, rocks, turns, loose, gravel, ruts, and other MTB challenges. I was tired, in pain, and not someone who has done a lot of MTB riding anyway, so I just took it safe. Another 2 guys past me, and I ceded another 5' to most of the guys in front of me. The pain in my back continued to increase. I was bordering on miserably uncomfortable and of course tired at this point. Still, I'd pedalled 3.5 hours already and didn't really want to pay $60 to not finish. Told myself I'd go another 2M and see where I was at.
Was now on more or less flat and gentle downhill roads. Took it VERY easy to Monument (fresh that would be almost a walking effort), though about pulling out some more, but said fuck it let's go another couple miles. Managed to pick it up a little more but I knew I wasn't pedalling as hard as my body could give due to the pain in my back. It just killed any desire to dig. I was tired AF and hurting so it still felt hard, but with that pain I didn't have the impetus to throttle myself the last hour. Made it to baptist, figured it was 45' and I'd been going for four hours so fuck it I'm going to miserable but I'm just going to grind this thing out. Lost another 5 or so places here, another good 15' lost to the top guys, and perhaps 5-10' to most guys due to skills (lots of sandy sections and loose gravel turns that I took it very, very safe through).
I hurt. I dug. I ground. I stayed in the moment. A half eternity later I was back on the paved trail that meant the finish was about a mile away. I finally believed I was going to finish and the pain was going to end, which made the last mile a bit of a relief and I rolled across the line in just under 4:45 in 46th place.
The result was poor, but I'm satisfied with how I raced. I didn't give into the temptation to DNF when things got hard, and I honestly think with the back pain I gave it just about all I could over the final hour and a half even if it wasn't much. Considering I came in here with months of 4-5 hour weeks, and this was a 5 hour day, I probably should have known something this could be an issue, especially on a different bike from normal. The other consolation is that I'm confident I lost at a minimum 10'-15' to lack of technical skills, which was the difference between 30th and 45th. A little less back pain and "average" level technical skills and I probably hit my target of top 25, so I don't think fitness was too off. Mostly technical skills lacking and issues with endurance/training on the correct bike.
Out of curiosity, how big are the fields in the races you typically do?
On August 27 2018 03:03 L_Master wrote: Bonham probably has a race report coming but I'll throw mine in their too. As I posted about had the Rampart Rager 100k yesterday. From a results standpoint, it wasn't a good one. I finished 46th out of a field of about 200 starters. That said, it was a very strong field with a handful of MTB pros, a dozen or so of the local MTB studs, and then another five or ten guys that are regional or statewide road studs with great fitness (I'd say 15'-16' 5k analog), and then plenty of other guys that are fit local racers.
We also had Katie Compton who is a 14x consecutive US national champion in cyclocross and a multi-time world cyclocross championships medalist so that was pretty cool. A bit like if you showed up on the start line of your local 5k and Shalane Flanagan or Shelby Houlihan were there. Also Shannon Payne (dominant Colorado mountain runner) was racing which was interesting.
Race was a 63M course with approx 5500' climbing. 7M neutral start (basically where someone is in front and lolligags at like a 12:00 mile equivalent before pulling over and letting the racing begin). Field was about 200 in size, which was wild. It looked and felt like the Tour de France rolling through town...if everyone was riding MTBs. Different feeling being in a bunch of that size. Cool, but also intimidating to be pushed in with 3+ riders on both sides of you.
The basic setup of the parcours is 3M on roads in Garden of the Gods, basically starting with a short, punchy 6% half mile climb, then a fast downhill and a right onto gravel of Rampart Range Road which was a 12M climb at 5.5%. The course then had about 18M of "rollers" (uphill for half a mile, downhill for half a mile, etc.). Then a 6M descent of Mt Herman Road, mile or two on the roads in Monument, and then downhill gently (1%) on Santa Fe Trail down to the finish for about 15M or so.
---------------------------------------
Race Report
Race started out expected, aggressive up the first little climb. When I say aggressive, I mean it. It would be a little like starting out a 50M race with a 2:15 800. I was definitely in the red going over the top of that, especially with most of the top guys on CX bikes and not MTBs like I was. I had to do a little extra work as well to move up, as I'd needed a nature break and started towards the back of the field so I had to make up about 50m extra over that climb to be more or less with the "front" group. I had wanted to stay with that group thinking there would be some nice benefit towards getting a good free ride drafting through the downhill, but with the MTB and lack of gears compared to most other guys it ended up being a mistake. I went into the red for very little gain.
Had to work just to stay with the field due to bike and gears, so I hit the climb with HR close to 170, which in running terms for me would be like hitting a 1+ hour climb/starting a HM coming straight off 1200m at mile pace. In other words, I was already approaching redline with a lot of lactate/acid already. I tried to settle int a rhythm the first 5' but was too gassed, so I backed off to more like endurance pace or perhaps 2', before gradually finding a solid rhythm. Unfortunately, my legs already felt a bit heavy and sluggish and I knew I didn't have that "A game" feeling you'd be hoping for.
The next 1:15 was just brutal low threshold climbing. My pacing I'm usually confident in and I think I got it pretty damn good this time. I got passed by about 30 guys in the first 20', but ended up passing back a good 20-25' the remaining 45', as I just road a good solid tempo. The road had some nice sections, but it was a constant search to navigate and avoid washboards and rocks. It's not a pleasant feeling. It makes it hard to find rhythm and your constantly getting the saddle slammed into your ass when you're already deep into a HM type effort. Blissfully, the top 4M or so of the climb were much smoother and easier to keep rhythm. The climb wasn't good for me, I was probably 5M slower than I would have expected on a strong day, but I still went over the climb somewhere around 25-30th. I'd clearly worked hard, and was starting to feel the effects about 2 hours in, but I was going good, and had done a good job eating/drinking on the way up.
Speaking of which....eating when you're at threshold effort is really unpleasant. You get in maybe a chew, and then you have to figure out how to get in some air around this food before another chew. Took me like 6' to get a Honey Stinger Waffle (sort of like a cliff bar) down.
We then hit the rollers section of the course. Given my profile and current weight, I was planning for this to be a good section for me and move up some places before a brief rest on the downhill. I quickly found this wasn't happening. It was more up and down than I realized, and we already knew the guys in front were climbing faster than me because it had been all climbing to this point. More importantly the downhills were loose and there were lots of washboards, so I wasn't comfortable letting my bike out to high, high speeds and taking lines right on the edge of the road to dodge washboards. I started giving up a little time on downhills, and of course not making up much time on the uphills. Over the first 30' I think I had 10 guys go past me. I may also have not pushed the hills on this sections hard enough, as I was beginning to feel tired and was thinking about conserving something for the finish.
This section, as I mentioned, also had ridiculous washboards. Even with the front shock on my MTB some of the washboards were so bad they would slow you down to 5-10mph downhill and felt literally like a jackhammer all through my arms and hands, completely taking the feeling out of them in aggressive sections. When you're already tired, this gets old REALLY FUCKIN FAST. I spent quite a while cursing at the god forsaken washboards. They also made the course slow because washboards like that just destroy your speed. Come in at 20mph, hit a 20m section of bad washboards, come out at 5mph. The top guys all did this section about 30% faster which means that either they are comically better at finding good, washboard free lines....or there is a trick to getting over those that I don't know.
About halfway through this section the race started to go from "I'm getting tired, this is hard" to "I'm fucking miserable". Primarily because my back started to hate me. Probably a combination of being in a different position, lots of climbing, and those washboards but everything in my lower back, upper back, neck, and wrapping around to my chest started to hurt. I continued to put a decent bit into those rollers but now I was mentally struggling basically telling myself to just get down Herman and have someone come pick me up. Soldiered on, but at a reduced pace over the last 7 or 8 roller miles, and onto the descent.
The descent was 6M at 6% downhill. but on a very rocky, very rutted fire road. Not technical by MTB standards, but definitely plenty of skills, rocks, turns, loose, gravel, ruts, and other MTB challenges. I was tired, in pain, and not someone who has done a lot of MTB riding anyway, so I just took it safe. Another 2 guys past me, and I ceded another 5' to most of the guys in front of me. The pain in my back continued to increase. I was bordering on miserably uncomfortable and of course tired at this point. Still, I'd pedalled 3.5 hours already and didn't really want to pay $60 to not finish. Told myself I'd go another 2M and see where I was at.
Was now on more or less flat and gentle downhill roads. Took it VERY easy to Monument (fresh that would be almost a walking effort), though about pulling out some more, but said fuck it let's go another couple miles. Managed to pick it up a little more but I knew I wasn't pedalling as hard as my body could give due to the pain in my back. It just killed any desire to dig. I was tired AF and hurting so it still felt hard, but with that pain I didn't have the impetus to throttle myself the last hour. Made it to baptist, figured it was 45' and I'd been going for four hours so fuck it I'm going to miserable but I'm just going to grind this thing out. Lost another 5 or so places here, another good 15' lost to the top guys, and perhaps 5-10' to most guys due to skills (lots of sandy sections and loose gravel turns that I took it very, very safe through).
I hurt. I dug. I ground. I stayed in the moment. A half eternity later I was back on the paved trail that meant the finish was about a mile away. I finally believed I was going to finish and the pain was going to end, which made the last mile a bit of a relief and I rolled across the line in just under 4:45 in 46th place.
The result was poor, but I'm satisfied with how I raced. I didn't give into the temptation to DNF when things got hard, and I honestly think with the back pain I gave it just about all I could over the final hour and a half even if it wasn't much. Considering I came in here with months of 4-5 hour weeks, and this was a 5 hour day, I probably should have known something this could be an issue, especially on a different bike from normal. The other consolation is that I'm confident I lost at a minimum 10'-15' to lack of technical skills, which was the difference between 30th and 45th. A little less back pain and "average" level technical skills and I probably hit my target of top 25, so I don't think fitness was too off. Mostly technical skills lacking and issues with endurance/training on the correct bike.
Out of curiosity, how big are the fields in the races you typically do?
Most road races are separated by category and typically have fields in the range of 20-70 depending on the event, except for the P-1-2's which tend to have fields between 50-100 being such a large category. For all other categories aside from P12 races are typically capped at 75.
Thanks for the great writeup, L_Master. To echo LuckyFool, the running comparisons really open up the world of cycling for me when I read your reports. Sorry to hear you had a rough day, but kudos for sticking with it and not giving in to the negative voices in your head.
This course reminds me a bit of the Sin Seven ultra race I run on a relay team each summer. It's a fun weekend, but the running is so difficult and weird that I kind of hate it. You can't get into a rhythm like you can in a road race. You're always crawling up very steep inclines or trying not to break your neck on a descent or splashing through a stream and so on.
Had to work just to stay with the field due to bike and gears, so I hit the climb with HR close to 170, which in running terms for me would be like hitting a 1+ hour climb/starting a HM coming straight off 1200m at mile pace. In other words, I was already approaching redline with a lot of lactate/acid already. I tried to settle int a rhythm the first 5' but was too gassed, so I backed off to more like endurance pace or perhaps 2', before gradually finding a solid rhythm. Unfortunately, my legs already felt a bit heavy and sluggish and I knew I didn't have that "A game" feeling you'd be hoping for.
Oof, I felt a major twinge of sympathy when I read that. There's nothing worse than the sinking feeling you get in the early portions of a race or hard workout that is not going to go well. It hurts and you're slow and you think "oh boy I've still got a looooooong ways to go here."
Here it is, the only race report so long that reading it will take more time than the race itself! Putting it in spoiler tags to avoid committing a formatting crime against humanity.
This race was a fun one. It nearly never happened.
Forest fires have engulfed huge stretches of BC this year. Among the many unfortunate consequences of these fires is the smoke they’ve pumped into the atmosphere. For reasons not quite clear to me, this smoke (along with small particulate matter from the fires and sundry other nasty hangers-on) has amazing transitive properties. It can travel amazing distances without dispersing, causing awful air quality wherever it arrives and lingers. I’ve seen news stories about smoke from the fires causing the air quality to plummet in Nova Scotia, which is more than 4,000 km east of the fires.
But the favorite destination of BC smoke is usually Alberta. This summer has been no exception. Edmonton was positively swathed in smoke for most of August, with hideous air quality and almost no sunshine. When my flight landed on the Friday before the race and I first breathed in a lungful of prickly, sticky, burning air, my first thought was: hoo boy, I can’t race in this.
A call to a friend who is a respirologist on Saturday strengthened my skepticism. She told me that running in bad air can do long-term damage to your lungs, and urged me not to race if the air quality was 6 or high on the air quality health index, a measure devised by the federal government. At that point I was almost certain I would not run. The AQHI on Saturday morning was 10+, the highest rating on the scale. It was forecast to improve overnight and be OK for Sunday, but I took a “I’ll believe it when I see it” attitude to the prediction. Lungs are useful things, you know? I’d personally prefer to use mine to their utmost for as long as possible.
Then on Saturday night, things cleared up with remarkable speed. By Sunday morning the AQHI was 4 and heading down. The race went forward. The fact that air quality immediately degraded again on Monday is proof positive, I believe, that Sunday’s clearance was a special dispensation from the gods of running.
This miraculous atmosphere extended to the race itself. For perhaps the first time in recorded history, everything went according to my race plan.
That plan, which I’d developed in consultation with my coach, was this: run somewhere around 3:35/k for the first 10k of the race and then make a game-time decision. If it’s hard, just dig in and hang on; 3:35/k nets you 1:15 and change in a half marathon, and that’s enough for my goal race this training cycle (Victoria marathon on October 7, where I hope to run 2:3X). If you’re feeling good, hit the gas a bit and have fun.
After the disaster of the BMO half in Vancouver in June (see earlier in this thread for my outrageous and pathetic whinging in its aftermath), and my very underwhelming run in the lead leg of the Sinister 7 ultra in July, I desperately wanted a race to go well. I wanted racing to be fun again. Most of all, I wanted to feel afterwards like I’d given a good, strong effort.
All of which made me more conscientious than usual when the starter’s pistol fired. Instead of getting carried away for a mile and a half, as is my custom, I cooled my jets and tried to lock in on goal pace. This was a bit tricky as the field was pretty crowded at the start. The field was in the neighbourhood of 2,000, I believe, which necessitated some jostling and dodging in the opening few miles. I made a note of a few runners who I thought I might see later at this stage.
By 5k I was cruising in the wake of a dude rocking some salmon pink shorts. I gave him the private nickname of Chinook in honor of this. I thought he was running just the right pace to take me to 10k in 36 minutes.
But this soon proved false. I realized, listening to Chinook’s breathing over a mile or so, that he was working much too hard to keep this pace up to the 10k mark. Not wanting to get caught up in what I saw as his inevitable fade--I don’t mean that he’d literally grab on to me, of course, but rather that I’d subconsciously slow a bit or just settle into a too-comfortable rhythm running next to him--I made a gentle push off the front to put some distance between us and stick to the plan.
This brought me within spitting distance of another runner who I thought might be a good pace buddy to the 10k mark. But the situation repeated itself again: we ran together for a bit, I decided I’d be better on my own, and made a small push off the front.
Now I was less than a mile from 10k. The watch said I’d been running 3:34/k and I was feeling good. The course got a bit twisty here, but on the straights I could see a running duo I recognized from the start of the race. It was composed of a man and a woman. I assumed the woman was one of the elite field and the man was pacing her to some kind of goal time. I went through 10k in a little under 36 minutes and decided to try and catch them. It took me about two miles to reel them in, which took us just to the point where the course straightened out again.
They must not have been a pacing team, because they actually split before my arrival. I passed the woman first and then the man. Both times when I made contact, my thoughts were the same: “Boy, it sounds like you’re working hard. I don’t think I’m hurting as bad as you. I bet I can push on a little more.”
The male I thought might pick up and race me to the finish, but to my mild dismay he rolled over almost as soon as I pulled even with him. Before long we exchanged words of encouragement and parted ways.
Now I was in no man’s land. I could see, on the straight stretches of road, my friend S a little ways ahead of a man in a neon singlet, who I’m going to call Neon Keon here. I thought I probably couldn’t catch S, but I decided to have a go at Neon Keon. I’d say he was about 300 metres up the road from me.
We were approaching the 15k mark here and I was starting to hurt. But with just 6k to go, that felt OK. I thought of some of my workouts in the last few months and told myself that I could hurt for that long.
I always feel a strong urge, in the early portions of a race, to deny that I’m working hard. I think this is an attempt at psychological self-preservation: if you admit to yourself, five percent into a race, that you’re barely hanging on, the realization of the amount of pain in front of you can be overwhelming and dispiriting.
Conversely, I find, towards the end of a race or a hard workout, it can be liberating to say to yourself: self, you’ve done some good work so far. You’re doing great, and there’s not far to go here. Pin your ears back, go hell for leather, and show the devil a clean pair of heels.
Which is more or less what I said to myself here. Abandoning by inches the conservatism that had brought me to that point in the race, I opened up the throttle and tried to run Neon Keon down.
Not long after I hit the gas, a voice in the crowd called out that “S is not that far ahead!” I craned around to see my coach standing there, giving me the thumbs up. I flashed a thumb at him and ran on.
One of the reasons I love running the Edmonton half is the crowds. It’s not Boston or Chicago or anything, but for a race of its size it gets some pretty large and rowdy groups of spectators. Plus, since I spent most of my life in Edmonton and know many runners there, the odd person in the crowd will recognize me and call out encouragement by name as I pass.
This happened a few more times as I chased Neon Keon. I stared at his neon top with a maniacal obsession and imagined a rubber band linking our waists, slowly cinching us together.
He must have known I was chasing him, because with about two miles to go he turned back and looked at me. When that I happened, I thought “I’ve got you now.”
We went through the biggest cheer group on the course right after that, with pounding music and bubble-blowing machines and people holding all manner of fun signs. I reached my hand out for a high-five and an acquaintance of mine, who I hadn’t seen in years and didn’t know would be at the race, popped out of the crowd and delivered and epic high-five. I put in a small surge and screamed around the final turn in the course. I was less than 10 metres back of Neon Keon at this point.
Right after this turn, there is a very modest uphill--a gentle grade that lasts no more than 100 metres. But, much like Heartbreak Hill in Boston, the location of this feature right at the end of the race can make it seem like a monstrous hill if you are hurting enough. Neon Keon must have been at the limits of his strength, because he slowed to a crawl when he hit it.
Passing people in a race is sometimes called “scalping”, as in “I can’t believe Bob scalped Galen Rupp in that 5k!” I’d never really thought about why the term is used until I passed Neon Keon. It felt personal and somehow gruesome and rude and primal. It was just the two of us on the course, neither able to speak, having a weirdly intimate moment. I felt like I was somehow ripping some part of him away as I passed.
I must have been flagging myself at this point, because my splits show I ran the 20th K in 3:39. My watch had been reading 3:32/k since I passed halfway. Now it jumped up to 3:33. I summoned the last of my strength and emptied the gas tank over the last mile.
My chip time was 1:14:05, about as good as I could hope for. I had a ton of fun, received a huge dose of positive vibes for my Victoria training, and remembered why I love running so much.
S still beat me by about 50 seconds, though. I’ll have to wait until next year to try again.
Not too bad. Sounds like the execution was spot on, and nice use of psychology throughout the race. I agree with your thoughts on how hard you're working. Being concerned about that early can just result in you totally giving up. It's also amazing if you feel you're going well how much more willing you are to hurt and go after it, whereas if you feel a little off I find it far easier to just kinda roll over and mail it in to the finish.
That's what, 2' off your best? Getting back there man, looks like you'll have a real good chance of something 2:35-2:38 by the time October rolls around.
That's what, 2' off your best? Getting back there man, looks like you'll have a real good chance of something 2:35-2:38 by the time October rolls around.
Haha, thanks! Something in that ballpark is the plan for Victoria. It does have some rolling hills and can be windy, so who knows.
My Edmonton time is slightly over two minutes off my PB, which is 1:12:01. I'm a stickler for those seconds because I dream of one day joining the 1:11 club. It feels less and less like a crazy fantasy these days. "Maybe next year?" he said, in a voice full of hope.
That's what, 2' off your best? Getting back there man, looks like you'll have a real good chance of something 2:35-2:38 by the time October rolls around.
Haha, thanks! Something in that ballpark is the plan for Victoria. It does have some rolling hills and can be windy, so who knows.
My Edmonton time is slightly over two minutes off my PB, which is 1:12:01. I'm a stickler for those seconds because I dream of one day joining the 1:11 club. It feels less and less like a crazy fantasy these days. "Maybe next year?" he said, in a voice full of hope.
I don't see any reason you couldn't run 1:10-1:11 and threaten 2:29:xx and it looks like you're on track to get back to PR territory over the course of the next year. You were training hard for your 1:12 and your 2:30 low, but from what I remember you were still chipping away consistently from cycle to cycle. No reason you can't get back there and continue to chip away.
Running faster than perhaps 1:10/2:28 is where I think it would get tougher. That would probably take some form of significant shift in your training or at a minimum several very good, uninterrupted cycles given that you were training quite seriously and focused to run your PRs.
I don't see any reason you couldn't run 1:10-1:11 and threaten 2:29:xx and it looks like you're on track to get back to PR territory over the course of the next year. You were training hard for your 1:12 and your 2:30 low, but from what I remember you were still chipping away consistently from cycle to cycle. No reason you can't get back there and continue to chip away.
Running faster than perhaps 1:10/2:28 is where I think it would get tougher. That would probably take some form of significant shift in your training or at a minimum several very good, uninterrupted cycles given that you were training quite seriously and focused to run your PRs.
Considering your knowledge level about running and training, it means a lot to me to hear you say that. Breaking 2:30 has been my long-term running goal for years now. Sometimes it seems like a foolish dream. Sometimes, merely daft.
I would like to publicly thank L_Master for the coaching and advice over the past 6 weeks. The weather around here has been brutal, we have had no extended signs of Fall yet, but I can feel my fitness is definitely improved regardless of some rough workouts throughout the training cycle. I feel good, lost 4 pounds, eating well, and no matter what happens in my race on Saturday it’s overall been a very positive experience mixing these workouts back into my routine for the first time in 2 years. It has been strange not training for a marathon this year but I have enjoyed spending the time focusing on the shorter stuff again. This is the first time I’m racing a 5k that I actually specifically prepared for which is exciting.
So I have this issue. I've started cycling ~3 times a week, for 1-1.5h per session or if I didn't cycle, I ran. I used to run a lot and I used to have quite good endurance. My endurance is fine, but after the second week of training my knees started getting some kind of stiffness. Like, not traditional soreness, but difficulty bending. Now, after almost 2 months, I can run and bike, but my knees are stiffer than ever. Like squatting is almost impossible. It does kind of go away when I stretch areas around me knee the day itself, but always returns the next day. Running isn't painful per se. The pain is in the lifting of the leg and bending the knee or when putting a lot of pressure on the knee when cycling (like when on high resistance or something) I'm about to go to a physiotherapist I think, because it doesn't seem to resolve. Hope it can go away soon so I can keep improving my form. Kind of think it's my knee ligaments not being able to cope with my sudden spike in activity. Also (finally), I started doing leg stretches where I hold my foot with my hands to elongate my hamstrings so I become more nimble; I used to have to do this because of injury long time ago and I like the feeling, but somehow feel like this is related..
On September 21 2018 00:36 Uldridge wrote: So I have this issue. I've started cycling ~3 times a week, for 1-1.5h per session or if I didn't cycle, I ran. I used to run a lot and I used to have quite good endurance. My endurance is fine, but after the second week of training my knees started getting some kind of stiffness. Like, not traditional soreness, but difficulty bending. Now, after almost 2 months, I can run and bike, but my knees are stiffer than ever. Like squatting is almost impossible. It does kind of go away when I stretch areas around me knee the day itself, but always returns the next day. Running isn't painful per se. The pain is in the lifting of the leg and bending the knee or when putting a lot of pressure on the knee when cycling (like when on high resistance or something) I'm about to go to a physiotherapist I think, because it doesn't seem to resolve. Hope it can go away soon so I can keep improving my form. Kind of think it's my knee ligaments not being able to cope with my sudden spike in activity. Also (finally), I started doing leg stretches where I hold my foot with my hands to elongate my hamstrings so I become more nimble; I used to have to do this because of injury long time ago and I like the feeling, but somehow feel like this is related..
Definitely not an expert in injuries. The most common places to check initially would be did you do too much, too soon; especially with a bad bike fit. Check your cadence as well. Knee injuries are much more common in people with slow cadences in the 60s/70s/80s. Running a cadence of 90-100+ is much better for knee health (and other factors as well).
I would take 3-4 weeks off, see if it improves. If it does, then it's definitely related to those activities. Check bike fit and then gradually re-introduce cycling. If it doesn't, go see the physio. Could still be related to those, but a more significant injury. Before you see the physio do some online research and try to have an idea of what might be wrong so you can go in informed.
On September 20 2018 11:41 LuckyFool wrote: I would like to publicly thank L_Master for the coaching and advice over the past 6 weeks. The weather around here has been brutal, we have had no extended signs of Fall yet, but I can feel my fitness is definitely improved regardless of some rough workouts throughout the training cycle. I feel good, lost 4 pounds, eating well, and no matter what happens in my race on Saturday it’s overall been a very positive experience mixing these workouts back into my routine for the first time in 2 years. It has been strange not training for a marathon this year but I have enjoyed spending the time focusing on the shorter stuff again. This is the first time I’m racing a 5k that I actually specifically prepared for which is exciting.
Fingers crossed. Would have loved to see a forecast 20 degrees cooler. Right now looks like they are forecasting 73 degrees and dew-point of 67...which I believe pretty muggy (around 75% humidity). At least not the 80+ with 90% humidity stuff.....
5k done - 20:36, low 70’s with around 90% humidity at the start, overall not too disappointed. I feel like I did about as best I could with the hand I was dealt. according to strava it was my 3rd fastest 5k all time (started using strava in 2013) so that’s not bad. Seems like sub 20 will have to wait until this stupid humidity gets out of town for the fall...it’ll be interesting to see what I can do when it’s dry and low 50’s for temps...
up next a half next weekend but not planning on going hard in that will treat it more like just an easy/long run, and then spend October working towards running decent in the Richmond half in November
On September 22 2018 22:47 LuckyFool wrote: 5k done - 20:36, low 70’s with around 90% humidity at the start, overall not too disappointed. I feel like I did about as best I could with the hand I was dealt. according to strava it was my 3rd fastest 5k all time (started using strava in 2013) so that’s not bad. Seems like sub 20 will have to wait until this stupid humidity gets out of town for the fall...it’ll be interesting to see what I can do when it’s dry and low 50’s for temps...
up next a half next weekend but not planning on going hard in that will treat it more like just an easy/long run, and then spend October working towards running decent in the Richmond half in November
Not the sub 20 your were hoping for, but you definitely didn't have the conditions you were hoping for. 70s and humid is definitely well below optimum for fast racing. Just take a look at diamond league 5ks during the day with those temps, often races above 13:10. Those guys are easily racing 20-30+ seconds over their ability, and that's for almost half the duration. I guarantee you that warm + humid combo cost you a minimum for 40-45s, and in your case possibly as much a 1:00.
Let's put it this way, the humidity almost certainly cost you a little more than the turbo speed course helped you.
Very nice splits btw. Borderline negative splits.Given that the first two miles went at an average of -120 ft/mile and the last mile was uphill by 20ft to only slow from 6:25 to 6:55 is very good.
Out of curiosity, my guess is that in the last km you kinda realized you weren't going to make it sub 20 and threw in the towel just a smidge there. If you're HR monitor is to be believe you had a slight lessening on the HR towards the end, and I don't really see much resembling a kick for the line (strava doesn't always show this though, and it may have been more uphill too). If I'm off base, correct me, but I like trying to read the race from the data and splits.
All in all that's a strong race. Great work! The good times to show for it are coming as the weather cools off!
Yeah exactly. When I started slipping at 4k I knew it was going to be near impossible to close with an under 4:00 final k especially with it almost all uphill, if I pushed like crazy mayyyybe I would have been able to finish in the 20:15-20:20 range but I basically made the decision at 4k not to pour on 110% coming in. I think maybe if I yolo’d a tad more on the downhills early on and had a little cushion for the final k I would have had more of an incentive to push there. I’m tempted to give this race another go next year, the course is very fun haha
Hey everyone! Quick update on me: I had to pull out of Victoria because of a foot injury incurred two weeks before the race. No fall marathon for me. I suspect some plyometrics my physio had me doing were to blame, but that is neither here nor there.
I'm still rehabbing my foot and planning my next move, and riding my bike a bit in the meantime.
On that note, I have a question for L_Master (or any other experienced cyclist): is the right effort for an easy ride the same as the effort for an easy run? I have no idea how to modulate my effort on these rides where I'm trying to cross-train/not go crazy.
LuckyFool totally didn't post it, but he ran a PR half a week ago impromptu. Was planning to just pace it but took off with a few to go and PRed by a small amount. It's on strava so it happened
Hey everyone! Quick update on me: I had to pull out of Victoria because of a foot injury incurred two weeks before the race. No fall marathon for me. I suspect some plyometrics my physio had me doing were to blame, but that is neither here nor there.
I'm still rehabbing my foot and planning my next move, and riding my bike a bit in the meantime.
On that note, I have a question for L_Master (or any other experienced cyclist): is the right effort for an easy ride the same as the effort for an easy run? I have no idea how to modulate my effort on these rides where I'm trying to cross-train/not go crazy.
Pretty sure I read it's a different injury than the nasty one? If it was the same one I'd be saying it would be time to seriously consider the bike.
Sucks though, hope it heals decently quick
On that note, I have a question for L_Master (or any other experienced cyclist): is the right effort for an easy ride the same as the effort for an easy run? I have no idea how to modulate my effort on these rides where I'm trying to cross-train/not go crazy.
If you have orders, or reason, not to go hard, then yes I'd say the best way to do so is similar breathing effort. Depending on where you are at, it might feel a little easier breathing wise and a little harder in the legs with the pushing effort, but not dramatically. If all you do is ride easy though, you can expect to lose significant fitness...but I'm sure you're already aware of that.
If you have clearance to go hard, there is a ton of great stuff you could do to hang onto the vast majority of your aerobic fitness.
LMaster wise...dealing with a sinus infection that won't feck off. I'd say whatever and ignore it, but when I try that it gets worse, and unfortunately it's main symptom is fatigue. Not debilitating, but enough to make walking to classes (1.5 mile walk) a moderate chore, and riding a bike fairly unpleasant.
I'm going to rest very hard the next 3-4 days, perhaps break out the bulb syringe/mucinex type stuff, and see where that goes. If that doesn't work, next step would be doctor and see about antibiotics.
Annoying, but not end of the world, because the real fun starts late Nov/early December. Major plans then. Putting a lot of effort right now into getting my work ethic, discipline, organization, and general school skills to a healthy place. With that in place, I should be able to handle actually training for the first time in a couple years, and it's a big part of my overall plan: + Show Spoiler +
Basically looking to make 50k+ a year, ideally 75k+ working 30 hours a week by 35. I absolutely love endurance athletics and coaching, so that is a part of that plan. Credibility is a part of that, and I still somewhat lack the credentials I'd like to have as both a rider and a runner. Not to mention I have unfinished business with these sports.
Minimum, I want my Cat2 in cycling so I can go to nationals for CSU in spring 2020. Then, if the body can still do it, I want to run sub 4:30, 16:30, and sub 1:15. A marathon would be nice to have on the resume, but it takes a long time to build up to a successful one of those.
Thanks for the quick response, man. Sorry hear your immune system is letting you down. That's quite the long-term scheme there! I'd say you've got the long-term disposition for it.
I'm starting to feel pessimistic about my foot. Don't know if it's a stress fracture or not (though I'm looking into getting a CT scan) but it feels longer-term than I was lead to believe. It's been a month of rest and rehab and cross training at this point, and it still felt weird/numb/painful during a 5k test this evening. Definitely not healed. Not noticeably better for all my rehabbing, really.
All of which is to say: could you tell me a bit more about what I can do to maintain my fitness on the bike? For reference, I ride a Jake the Snake cyclocross with commuter-style tires. I'm looking to ride for roughly an hour a day with a two hour ride on the weekend.
The bike you have, fortunately, doesn't effect the ability to work out.
I'm also not sure what commuter style tires mean. I assume this means wider, I don't know if it means tread or not. Unless you specifically commute on gravel or snow, then changing tyres would greatly benefit the character of your ride. The bike would be somewhere from marginally to significantly faster, likely handle better, and resist flats better. It's not mandatory by any stretch of the imagination, but if any of the above things matter to you, it's worth the consideration. #1 recommendation far and away would be either 25mm or 28mm Continental Gator Hardshell Tyres. Fantastic tyre. Great life, great flat resistance, and given that its meant to be a robust training tire it rolls well and grips well.
Given those time parameters (FYI: ideal in my mind would be 1.5-2 hour rides on 3 weekdays, the other two with 30'-60' recovery rides, and then a good 2-4 hour ride on the weekend.) the focus would definitely be on intensity as that's in that "time crunched" 5-9 hours a week window.
In your case, short term fitness maintenance would be the main goal I imagine. The big difference between the bike and running is basically the amount and intensity of training you can tolerate. You wont have power/heart rate, so in your case you'll have to go by feel, but you're exceptionally experienced so that isn't a major concern. Simple idea of what you could do:
Monday - Easy spin, recovery or low aerobic intensity. Tuesday - 5x3' VO2 intervals. Think 3k intensity, maybe a little harder. If you've got a 3' climb somewhere...that's a pretty good benchmark for comparison. VO2 work, so usual 1:1 recovery. Progress to 8x3', then try to add intensity. No power to use, so you'll have to go by feel or find a decent climb to use as a comparison point. Wednesday - Sweet Spot. This is right below threshold. Somewhere between half marathon and MP. Intense, on the edge, but controlled. Start with 3x10' and build up 2' a week. So 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18' 3x20', then 1x60'. 2:00 recovery in between. These are best done on either a long climb (if available) or a good loop with uninterrupted roads, or at a worst case scenario a loop with only infrequent, right hand turns. Thursday - Depends on how you feel. Recovery if you're wrecked. If not, 5x3' with 1:00 recovery in between. This should be a little harder than threshold, think perhaps 8k-10k pace. Build to 7x3', then extend the rep length 10s or so per week. Friday - Recovery. Lazy spin. Saturday - 2-4 hour ride, include 3x10' intervals at threshold/10M race pace. Progress interval duration a little each week towards 3x20'. Rest of the the ride should be standard easy/aerobic spinning (equivalent to marathon pace + 60" to 90") Sunday - Anywhere from 0-3 hours. Mostly aerobic or tempo (MP or a smidge easier) riding.
Basically, time efficiency with focused intervals. Without power it's hard to focus precisely on going harder, so building duration is a good approach. You'll get way faster on the bike, and keep the vast majority of your running fitness if you do the above. I wasn't at your level, but I ran 18:21 on about 50mpw, got injured, didn't run or exercise much for a year, then got on the bike and trained cycling for 2 years. Got the itch to run. Did a couple of 20 mile weeks with 3 total workouts (3x1k, 2M sprint straight/jog turn, 4x1k) and ran 17:56.
Now, your training is really focused and good, and mine wasn't, not to mention your bike volume is reduced compared to your running volume and the opposite was true for me, so it's not like you'll come back and be ready to run 2:31, but you should be able to jump back in close to where you were metabolically.
On October 16 2018 14:12 L_Master wrote: The bike you have, fortunately, doesn't effect the ability to work out.
I'm also not sure what commuter style tires mean. I assume this means wider, I don't know if it means tread or not. Unless you specifically commute on gravel or snow, then changing tyres would greatly benefit the character of your ride. The bike would be somewhere from marginally to significantly faster, likely handle better, and resist flats better. It's not mandatory by any stretch of the imagination, but if any of the above things matter to you, it's worth the consideration. #1 recommendation far and away would be either 25mm or 28mm Continental Gator Hardshell Tyres. Fantastic tyre. Great life, great flat resistance, and given that its meant to be a robust training tire it rolls well and grips well.
Given those time parameters (FYI: ideal in my mind would be 1.5-2 hour rides on 3 weekdays, the other two with 30'-60' recovery rides, and then a good 2-4 hour ride on the weekend.) the focus would definitely be on intensity as that's in that "time crunched" 5-9 hours a week window.
In your case, short term fitness maintenance would be the main goal I imagine. The big difference between the bike and running is basically the amount and intensity of training you can tolerate. You wont have power/heart rate, so in your case you'll have to go by feel, but you're exceptionally experienced so that isn't a major concern. Simple idea of what you could do:
Monday - Easy spin, recovery or low aerobic intensity. Tuesday - 5x3' VO2 intervals. Think 3k intensity, maybe a little harder. If you've got a 3' climb somewhere...that's a pretty good benchmark for comparison. VO2 work, so usual 1:1 recovery. Progress to 8x3', then try to add intensity. No power to use, so you'll have to go by feel or find a decent climb to use as a comparison point. Wednesday - Sweet Spot. This is right below threshold. Somewhere between half marathon and MP. Intense, on the edge, but controlled. Start with 3x10' and build up 2' a week. So 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18' 3x20', then 1x60'. 2:00 recovery in between. These are best done on either a long climb (if available) or a good loop with uninterrupted roads, or at a worst case scenario a loop with only infrequent, right hand turns. Thursday - Depends on how you feel. Recovery if you're wrecked. If not, 5x3' with 1:00 recovery in between. This should be a little harder than threshold, think perhaps 8k-10k pace. Build to 7x3', then extend the rep length 10s or so per week. Friday - Recovery. Lazy spin. Saturday - 2-4 hour ride, include 3x10' intervals at threshold/10M race pace. Progress interval duration a little each week towards 3x20'. Rest of the the ride should be standard easy/aerobic spinning (equivalent to marathon pace + 60" to 90") Sunday - Anywhere from 0-3 hours. Mostly aerobic or tempo (MP or a smidge easier) riding.
Basically, time efficiency with focused intervals. Without power it's hard to focus precisely on going harder, so building duration is a good approach. You'll get way faster on the bike, and keep the vast majority of your running fitness if you do the above. I wasn't at your level, but I ran 18:21 on about 50mpw, got injured, didn't run or exercise much for a year, then got on the bike and trained cycling for 2 years. Got the itch to run. Did a couple of 20 mile weeks with 3 total workouts (3x1k, 2M sprint straight/jog turn, 4x1k) and ran 17:56.
Now, your training is really focused and good, and mine wasn't, not to mention your bike volume is reduced compared to your running volume and the opposite was true for me, so it's not like you'll come back and be ready to run 2:31, but you should be able to jump back in close to where you were metabolically.
Haha, wow, thanks for the detailed response. I will give this a go and see what happens; maybe I'll learn to love biking. (No promises I'll ride seven hours combined over Saturday and Sunday, though....) 5x3' coming up this afternoon!
Not sure on the exact brand/make of the tires, but they have a little bit of tread on them. Not like MB tires or anything but a few grooves for grip and whatnot. They are a bit fatter than skinny road bike tires. If I decide to invest in a dedicated road bike I'll look into those tires you mention (and probably ask you for a bunch more info....)
I can already see that picking routes for these workouts will be a bit of a skill to learn. I assume avoiding traffic lights/having to stop is the name of the game here. How much concern should I give to elevation change over my workout routes? My instinct is that going downhill in particular is not helpful since it's tough to keep your heart rate up while doing that. But are there any special concerns about going uphill with these workouts?
On October 16 2018 14:12 L_Master wrote: The bike you have, fortunately, doesn't effect the ability to work out.
I'm also not sure what commuter style tires mean. I assume this means wider, I don't know if it means tread or not. Unless you specifically commute on gravel or snow, then changing tyres would greatly benefit the character of your ride. The bike would be somewhere from marginally to significantly faster, likely handle better, and resist flats better. It's not mandatory by any stretch of the imagination, but if any of the above things matter to you, it's worth the consideration. #1 recommendation far and away would be either 25mm or 28mm Continental Gator Hardshell Tyres. Fantastic tyre. Great life, great flat resistance, and given that its meant to be a robust training tire it rolls well and grips well.
Given those time parameters (FYI: ideal in my mind would be 1.5-2 hour rides on 3 weekdays, the other two with 30'-60' recovery rides, and then a good 2-4 hour ride on the weekend.) the focus would definitely be on intensity as that's in that "time crunched" 5-9 hours a week window.
In your case, short term fitness maintenance would be the main goal I imagine. The big difference between the bike and running is basically the amount and intensity of training you can tolerate. You wont have power/heart rate, so in your case you'll have to go by feel, but you're exceptionally experienced so that isn't a major concern. Simple idea of what you could do:
Monday - Easy spin, recovery or low aerobic intensity. Tuesday - 5x3' VO2 intervals. Think 3k intensity, maybe a little harder. If you've got a 3' climb somewhere...that's a pretty good benchmark for comparison. VO2 work, so usual 1:1 recovery. Progress to 8x3', then try to add intensity. No power to use, so you'll have to go by feel or find a decent climb to use as a comparison point. Wednesday - Sweet Spot. This is right below threshold. Somewhere between half marathon and MP. Intense, on the edge, but controlled. Start with 3x10' and build up 2' a week. So 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18' 3x20', then 1x60'. 2:00 recovery in between. These are best done on either a long climb (if available) or a good loop with uninterrupted roads, or at a worst case scenario a loop with only infrequent, right hand turns. Thursday - Depends on how you feel. Recovery if you're wrecked. If not, 5x3' with 1:00 recovery in between. This should be a little harder than threshold, think perhaps 8k-10k pace. Build to 7x3', then extend the rep length 10s or so per week. Friday - Recovery. Lazy spin. Saturday - 2-4 hour ride, include 3x10' intervals at threshold/10M race pace. Progress interval duration a little each week towards 3x20'. Rest of the the ride should be standard easy/aerobic spinning (equivalent to marathon pace + 60" to 90") Sunday - Anywhere from 0-3 hours. Mostly aerobic or tempo (MP or a smidge easier) riding.
Basically, time efficiency with focused intervals. Without power it's hard to focus precisely on going harder, so building duration is a good approach. You'll get way faster on the bike, and keep the vast majority of your running fitness if you do the above. I wasn't at your level, but I ran 18:21 on about 50mpw, got injured, didn't run or exercise much for a year, then got on the bike and trained cycling for 2 years. Got the itch to run. Did a couple of 20 mile weeks with 3 total workouts (3x1k, 2M sprint straight/jog turn, 4x1k) and ran 17:56.
Now, your training is really focused and good, and mine wasn't, not to mention your bike volume is reduced compared to your running volume and the opposite was true for me, so it's not like you'll come back and be ready to run 2:31, but you should be able to jump back in close to where you were metabolically.
Haha, wow, thanks for the detailed response. I will give this a go and see what happens; maybe I'll learn to love biking. (No promises I'll ride seven hours combined over Saturday and Sunday, though....) 5x3' coming up this afternoon!
Not sure on the exact brand/make of the tires, but they have a little bit of tread on them. Not like MB tires or anything but a few grooves for grip and whatnot. They are a bit fatter than skinny road bike tires. If I decide to invest in a dedicated road bike I'll look into those tires you mention (and probably ask you for a bunch more info....)
I can already see that picking routes for these workouts will be a bit of a skill to learn. I assume avoiding traffic lights/having to stop is the name of the game here. How much concern should I give to elevation change over my workout routes? My instinct is that going downhill in particular is not helpful since it's tough to keep your heart rate up while doing that. But are there any special concerns about going uphill with these workouts?
You've got a cross bike, so I don't know how its geared. Most normal road bikes are geared such that you can do at least 33-35mpg (approx 60 km/hr) pedalling fairly comfortably, and close to 70 km/hr if you really spin. As long as you're not going down very steep downhills, or downhills with corners that require slowing and not pedaling you should be fine. If the downhill isn't crazy long, you should just be able to spin your legs like mad and keep some power down/HR up.
No major concerns about going uphill, no. Power is power whether flat, down, or up. Plus climbing is amazing and descending is the bomb so hills are pretty much tha bestest.
If you want a constant workbout, avoid those. It would be like planning a 3' VO2 interval, but having a 10s break in the middle. You could probably compensate, but it would definitely disrupt the workout. Any time you want consistent pedaling for an interval you definitely want to avoid stoplights. Those are completely disruptive. Also, as a general rule in my experience, roads with stoplights aren't generally the safest or best roads to ride when they can be avoided.
The key to really getting it right in my opinion is to feel your effort. Most people instinctively try to keep the gear turning at the same rate when they hit an uphill, which means they start laying down a ton of power. Most people are also too slow to shift into bigger gears going downhill, or subconsciously want to take it easy. Shift gears very quickly, and pay attention to the force on the pedals. Going over the top of a hill can easy be 3, 4, or 5 shifts in quick succession, often with 1-2s of each other, to keep the power down.
MTA: Dang. Your area is kind of a bummer. All the good stuff requires a decent bit of riding to get to. If you were trying to train like a pro it would be perfect, but for what you want you'd need to drive. Your best option that I imagine would be a great weekend ride with intervals, would be to ride from where you usually start your stuff out north to Burnaby mountain, do your reps on Burnaby, and then ride back.
If you do want to drive, that's probably money as far as a great spot to do intervals. But I realize driving 10-15 miles on a regular basis, especially across town, will likely be ridiculously onerous. If you're looking to have some nice weekend rides where you can drive and want a nice 2 or 3 hour ride I can give you some good suggestions though.
Given where you are you'll just have to figure out what's good using local knowledge, maybe find a nice loop with all right handers that you can use for hard days.
I may have some specific route sections for Bonham to get some good bike practice as L_Master mentioned Burnaby mtn, I guess you're in Van/Burnaby or Lower Mainland. Lurking in this thread all year I thought he was in Vic, but maybe that was just a visit. I will leave getting to/from these areas up to your discretion (biking/driving) but personally I just bike there and ride the interesting part, then ride back home. These should all be quite safe and bike friendly.
Iona Beach - by YVR: Depending on where you start from (usually the path behind the new mall), it's 14km out and back. Totally flat, usually windy, wide shoulder for half and then farm road, no intersections, many cyclists. Burnaby Mountain: My usual approach is heading E on union st bike route to the Parkway, then climb up and loop around SFU then head back down and home the same way. Distance is a bit short (as half will be downhill, and the bike route is very stop/start) but the hill climb is tough and great training. Barnett Hwy: Starting from where it leaves Hastings at the foot of the mountain, go all the way til you hit Port Moody then turn around and go back. It's got a wide shoulder on both sides and I think 1 intersection/light but its quite a long route with great views. River Road/Marine Way: I don't like this one as much but is fairly popular with cyclists. River Road (NE Richmond) has a narrow shoulder and feels a bit unsafe with cars passing and there are quite a few big trucks. Marine Way between Queensborough has a wide shoulder but there is a moderate amount of intersections, although spaced pretty far apart. Good for intervals. Fair bit of traffic but I feel safe on the shoulder. Glenlyon Loop: Popular for crits. 2.25 km loop SE of Boundary Road by the river in South Burnaby bounded by N Fraser Way and Glenlyon Parkway. Ride clockwise to stay on the inside. There is a 4 way stop at 1 part but you will be turning right and can ride thru. Watch for the bus. (L_Master specifically mentioned finding a loop with all right turns and this is it as far as I am aware) Marine Drive - UBC: One of the most popular bike spots. Can ride either direction but best is starting from the north, then going W and S as you avoid most of the intersections (almost all are T-shape) by being on the outside. Start where NW Marine diverges off W 4th heading down to the beach, then it's all flat for a while, followed by a moderate climb. Follow NW Marine along the outside of UBC and it changes name to SW Marine as you get a slight downhill section. Best is to stop at the intersection with 41st and either turn around and ride it in reverse or keep going down SW Marine (But there are a lot of lights on the southern portion). This is a great long route (maybe 15km total?) with varied terrain (hill, flat, down) all in one. Stanley Park Drive: The road not the seawall. Another of the more popular rides with roadies. Take the N Lagoon Dr after the hill but before the playground to loop back to the start (a touch under 10k for the loop). 2 lane road one-way only but the outside lane is very wide. I like to ride this at night as it is not at all busy. Evenings and mornings should be fine but I would avoid on weekend days. Deep Cove: I like taking Dollarton off the bridge instead of Seymour Parkway but that is fine too. Not much of a shoulder but lanes are fairly wide and cars know there's cyclists there a lot. Lots of up/down sections but almost no intersections. Since you run I bet you know about the other great things in Deep Cove (I'm talkin' donuts and amazing views for the rest of you) LSCR: Getting there by bike might take it out of you, but its a great "trail". From the end of Lillooet road it's a 14k paved trail Seymour Valley Trailway. A bit hilly but not too steep or too long, unlike the other mountain roads on the north shore. No cars, no intersections, ride through a forest! Richmond Dyke: The gravel dyke that encircles Richmond is great if your bike is up for it. No cars but many people. As long and as far as you want.
Maybe I should do a bit of an introduction? I'm David 27/M/ 6'0 63kg from Vancouver. Lurked on TL for a while but only made an account recently. I both run and cycle but both casually / just for fun. Been biking fairly regularly for the last 5 years and running somewhat consistently for the last 3 years but I would do jogs and short bike rides for fun prior to that time frame and used to play soccer for a decade.
I ride an older 12-speed steel bike with downtube shifters and roughly split my riding time between commuting (14k each way, ~35 min) and fun rides (usually 30-40k, occasionally up to 60, 1.5-2 hrs most rides). Never raced or trained (in a specific plan like you guys mention) on a bike but I do like exploring new parts of the city and finding great views.
As for running, I joined a local club 2.5 years ago and really ramped up my consistency from there, but not really the mileage. I tend to do 20-30km/wk whenever the mood strikes me to run. I also don't race much but have done a few, almost all being 10k races. Last year my 10k time was 39:12, this year it was 38:05. My run club started up their track workouts this year after not doing it for the last 2 years and it's really helped me improve, even though my total mileage hasn't changed much. We just did a 1 Mile TT last week and I put up 5:27 which I was somewhat happy with but knew I could do better as my condition wasn't great going in to it (just got over a cold, still had a sore back hip from a fall). Next spring I want to do a half-marathon and try to get out on the trails (read: mountain trails) more often as most of my club does a lot of trail races. My goal for the half is under 1:40 which I think I am easily capable of as long a I train longer distances and put in more time.
Wow, thanks for taking the time to write all that out! I actually live in Surrey, near the US border. It would be a bit of a haul to get to some of these, but I do have family in Burnaby, so I can see myself taking my bike over in the car for a Saturday combination bike ride/Dageraad tour.
Do you mind if I ask what running club you're in? I had some great training buddies back in Edmonton and I've struggled to find people to train with here. There is a club of friendly casual runners I run with on Thursdays, but there's no one there I could do workouts with.
Also, welcome to the thread! I'm glad you decided to jump from lurking to posting. A 1:40 half is well within your grasp if you're running 38:05 off low volume. Have you picked a race?
On October 16 2018 14:12 L_Master wrote: The bike you have, fortunately, doesn't effect the ability to work out.
I'm also not sure what commuter style tires mean. I assume this means wider, I don't know if it means tread or not. Unless you specifically commute on gravel or snow, then changing tyres would greatly benefit the character of your ride. The bike would be somewhere from marginally to significantly faster, likely handle better, and resist flats better. It's not mandatory by any stretch of the imagination, but if any of the above things matter to you, it's worth the consideration. #1 recommendation far and away would be either 25mm or 28mm Continental Gator Hardshell Tyres. Fantastic tyre. Great life, great flat resistance, and given that its meant to be a robust training tire it rolls well and grips well.
Given those time parameters (FYI: ideal in my mind would be 1.5-2 hour rides on 3 weekdays, the other two with 30'-60' recovery rides, and then a good 2-4 hour ride on the weekend.) the focus would definitely be on intensity as that's in that "time crunched" 5-9 hours a week window.
In your case, short term fitness maintenance would be the main goal I imagine. The big difference between the bike and running is basically the amount and intensity of training you can tolerate. You wont have power/heart rate, so in your case you'll have to go by feel, but you're exceptionally experienced so that isn't a major concern. Simple idea of what you could do:
Monday - Easy spin, recovery or low aerobic intensity. Tuesday - 5x3' VO2 intervals. Think 3k intensity, maybe a little harder. If you've got a 3' climb somewhere...that's a pretty good benchmark for comparison. VO2 work, so usual 1:1 recovery. Progress to 8x3', then try to add intensity. No power to use, so you'll have to go by feel or find a decent climb to use as a comparison point. Wednesday - Sweet Spot. This is right below threshold. Somewhere between half marathon and MP. Intense, on the edge, but controlled. Start with 3x10' and build up 2' a week. So 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18' 3x20', then 1x60'. 2:00 recovery in between. These are best done on either a long climb (if available) or a good loop with uninterrupted roads, or at a worst case scenario a loop with only infrequent, right hand turns. Thursday - Depends on how you feel. Recovery if you're wrecked. If not, 5x3' with 1:00 recovery in between. This should be a little harder than threshold, think perhaps 8k-10k pace. Build to 7x3', then extend the rep length 10s or so per week. Friday - Recovery. Lazy spin. Saturday - 2-4 hour ride, include 3x10' intervals at threshold/10M race pace. Progress interval duration a little each week towards 3x20'. Rest of the the ride should be standard easy/aerobic spinning (equivalent to marathon pace + 60" to 90") Sunday - Anywhere from 0-3 hours. Mostly aerobic or tempo (MP or a smidge easier) riding.
Basically, time efficiency with focused intervals. Without power it's hard to focus precisely on going harder, so building duration is a good approach. You'll get way faster on the bike, and keep the vast majority of your running fitness if you do the above. I wasn't at your level, but I ran 18:21 on about 50mpw, got injured, didn't run or exercise much for a year, then got on the bike and trained cycling for 2 years. Got the itch to run. Did a couple of 20 mile weeks with 3 total workouts (3x1k, 2M sprint straight/jog turn, 4x1k) and ran 17:56.
Now, your training is really focused and good, and mine wasn't, not to mention your bike volume is reduced compared to your running volume and the opposite was true for me, so it's not like you'll come back and be ready to run 2:31, but you should be able to jump back in close to where you were metabolically.
Haha, wow, thanks for the detailed response. I will give this a go and see what happens; maybe I'll learn to love biking. (No promises I'll ride seven hours combined over Saturday and Sunday, though....) 5x3' coming up this afternoon!
Not sure on the exact brand/make of the tires, but they have a little bit of tread on them. Not like MB tires or anything but a few grooves for grip and whatnot. They are a bit fatter than skinny road bike tires. If I decide to invest in a dedicated road bike I'll look into those tires you mention (and probably ask you for a bunch more info....)
I can already see that picking routes for these workouts will be a bit of a skill to learn. I assume avoiding traffic lights/having to stop is the name of the game here. How much concern should I give to elevation change over my workout routes? My instinct is that going downhill in particular is not helpful since it's tough to keep your heart rate up while doing that. But are there any special concerns about going uphill with these workouts?
You've got a cross bike, so I don't know how its geared. Most normal road bikes are geared such that you can do at least 33-35mpg (approx 60 km/hr) pedalling fairly comfortably, and close to 70 km/hr if you really spin. As long as you're not going down very steep downhills, or downhills with corners that require slowing and not pedaling you should be fine. If the downhill isn't crazy long, you should just be able to spin your legs like mad and keep some power down/HR up.
No major concerns about going uphill, no. Power is power whether flat, down, or up. Plus climbing is amazing and descending is the bomb so hills are pretty much tha bestest.
If you want a constant workbout, avoid those. It would be like planning a 3' VO2 interval, but having a 10s break in the middle. You could probably compensate, but it would definitely disrupt the workout. Any time you want consistent pedaling for an interval you definitely want to avoid stoplights. Those are completely disruptive. Also, as a general rule in my experience, roads with stoplights aren't generally the safest or best roads to ride when they can be avoided.
The key to really getting it right in my opinion is to feel your effort. Most people instinctively try to keep the gear turning at the same rate when they hit an uphill, which means they start laying down a ton of power. Most people are also too slow to shift into bigger gears going downhill, or subconsciously want to take it easy. Shift gears very quickly, and pay attention to the force on the pedals. Going over the top of a hill can easy be 3, 4, or 5 shifts in quick succession, often with 1-2s of each other, to keep the power down.
MTA: Dang. Your area is kind of a bummer. All the good stuff requires a decent bit of riding to get to. If you were trying to train like a pro it would be perfect, but for what you want you'd need to drive. Your best option that I imagine would be a great weekend ride with intervals, would be to ride from where you usually start your stuff out north to Burnaby mountain, do your reps on Burnaby, and then ride back.
If you do want to drive, that's probably money as far as a great spot to do intervals. But I realize driving 10-15 miles on a regular basis, especially across town, will likely be ridiculously onerous. If you're looking to have some nice weekend rides where you can drive and want a nice 2 or 3 hour ride I can give you some good suggestions though.
Given where you are you'll just have to figure out what's good using local knowledge, maybe find a nice loop with all right handers that you can use for hard days.
I can get my bike up to about 55 kph on a hill before the highest gear doesn't do much for me. The bike has two rings on the front and seven in the back.
Well, it did until this afternoon--the small ring on the front broke during my second rep in "the sweet spot." Can still ride it for now using just the big ring. Not sure if I should take it in to get fixed (which could take who knows how long) or try to ride it out until my foot comes around. On the upside, my physio had some very helpful suggestions when I saw him on Tuesday and my foot has been making real progress. I may not be on the bike long enough to see real results!
Could you elaborate a bit on avoiding common shifting mistakes? I've been trying to get into higher gears more quickly when a downhill is coming, but I'm sure I'm doing lots of other stuff like a chump. Do I want to maintain a higher cadence when climbing?
Also, what's MTA? How did you figure out all this stuff about riding where I live? Why would my neighbourhood be better for pro training?
On October 18 2018 12:26 Bonham wrote: Wow, thanks for taking the time to write all that out! I actually live in Surrey, near the US border. It would be a bit of a haul to get to some of these, but I do have family in Burnaby, so I can see myself taking my bike over in the car for a Saturday combination bike ride/Dageraad tour.
Do you mind if I ask what running club you're in? I had some great training buddies back in Edmonton and I've struggled to find people to train with here. There is a club of friendly casual runners I run with on Thursdays, but there's no one there I could do workouts with.
Also, welcome to the thread! I'm glad you decided to jump from lurking to posting. A 1:40 half is well within your grasp if you're running 38:05 off low volume. Have you picked a race?
Hmm I don't know the South Surrey area very well other than the big sports field complex that I used to play soccer on. That said, there are a lot more flat, quiet roads heading to the east that would be ideal for cycling. Again I don't know anything specific, but if you used like the strava heat maps or stalked any cycling clubs in the area to get routes from that would be a good approach.
I'm part of fraser street run club but that's in the heart of vancouver so probably not too accessible. I know there's a North Burnaby run club that frequents Dageraad but in Surrey/South Surrey I don't know of anything. It would be worth checking out facebook or instagram (or just googling) to try to find a club if its something you want.
As for races, I'm pretty set on doing the BMO half but would like to get one in before that, probably a MEC race. I am a bit wary of signing up for anything in Jan/Feb as you can count on it to be pissing rain all day. Do you have any good suggestions on this front? I'm not too knowledgeable on the road race circuit. One of the real reasons I want to do a half is to be confident in doing trail races as those are almost always longer than 21.1km and we are so spoiled by the awesome trails that I feel a bit guilty for not taking advantage of it.
On October 16 2018 14:12 L_Master wrote: The bike you have, fortunately, doesn't effect the ability to work out.
I'm also not sure what commuter style tires mean. I assume this means wider, I don't know if it means tread or not. Unless you specifically commute on gravel or snow, then changing tyres would greatly benefit the character of your ride. The bike would be somewhere from marginally to significantly faster, likely handle better, and resist flats better. It's not mandatory by any stretch of the imagination, but if any of the above things matter to you, it's worth the consideration. #1 recommendation far and away would be either 25mm or 28mm Continental Gator Hardshell Tyres. Fantastic tyre. Great life, great flat resistance, and given that its meant to be a robust training tire it rolls well and grips well.
Given those time parameters (FYI: ideal in my mind would be 1.5-2 hour rides on 3 weekdays, the other two with 30'-60' recovery rides, and then a good 2-4 hour ride on the weekend.) the focus would definitely be on intensity as that's in that "time crunched" 5-9 hours a week window.
In your case, short term fitness maintenance would be the main goal I imagine. The big difference between the bike and running is basically the amount and intensity of training you can tolerate. You wont have power/heart rate, so in your case you'll have to go by feel, but you're exceptionally experienced so that isn't a major concern. Simple idea of what you could do:
Monday - Easy spin, recovery or low aerobic intensity. Tuesday - 5x3' VO2 intervals. Think 3k intensity, maybe a little harder. If you've got a 3' climb somewhere...that's a pretty good benchmark for comparison. VO2 work, so usual 1:1 recovery. Progress to 8x3', then try to add intensity. No power to use, so you'll have to go by feel or find a decent climb to use as a comparison point. Wednesday - Sweet Spot. This is right below threshold. Somewhere between half marathon and MP. Intense, on the edge, but controlled. Start with 3x10' and build up 2' a week. So 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18' 3x20', then 1x60'. 2:00 recovery in between. These are best done on either a long climb (if available) or a good loop with uninterrupted roads, or at a worst case scenario a loop with only infrequent, right hand turns. Thursday - Depends on how you feel. Recovery if you're wrecked. If not, 5x3' with 1:00 recovery in between. This should be a little harder than threshold, think perhaps 8k-10k pace. Build to 7x3', then extend the rep length 10s or so per week. Friday - Recovery. Lazy spin. Saturday - 2-4 hour ride, include 3x10' intervals at threshold/10M race pace. Progress interval duration a little each week towards 3x20'. Rest of the the ride should be standard easy/aerobic spinning (equivalent to marathon pace + 60" to 90") Sunday - Anywhere from 0-3 hours. Mostly aerobic or tempo (MP or a smidge easier) riding.
Basically, time efficiency with focused intervals. Without power it's hard to focus precisely on going harder, so building duration is a good approach. You'll get way faster on the bike, and keep the vast majority of your running fitness if you do the above. I wasn't at your level, but I ran 18:21 on about 50mpw, got injured, didn't run or exercise much for a year, then got on the bike and trained cycling for 2 years. Got the itch to run. Did a couple of 20 mile weeks with 3 total workouts (3x1k, 2M sprint straight/jog turn, 4x1k) and ran 17:56.
Now, your training is really focused and good, and mine wasn't, not to mention your bike volume is reduced compared to your running volume and the opposite was true for me, so it's not like you'll come back and be ready to run 2:31, but you should be able to jump back in close to where you were metabolically.
Haha, wow, thanks for the detailed response. I will give this a go and see what happens; maybe I'll learn to love biking. (No promises I'll ride seven hours combined over Saturday and Sunday, though....) 5x3' coming up this afternoon!
Not sure on the exact brand/make of the tires, but they have a little bit of tread on them. Not like MB tires or anything but a few grooves for grip and whatnot. They are a bit fatter than skinny road bike tires. If I decide to invest in a dedicated road bike I'll look into those tires you mention (and probably ask you for a bunch more info....)
I can already see that picking routes for these workouts will be a bit of a skill to learn. I assume avoiding traffic lights/having to stop is the name of the game here. How much concern should I give to elevation change over my workout routes? My instinct is that going downhill in particular is not helpful since it's tough to keep your heart rate up while doing that. But are there any special concerns about going uphill with these workouts?
You've got a cross bike, so I don't know how its geared. Most normal road bikes are geared such that you can do at least 33-35mpg (approx 60 km/hr) pedalling fairly comfortably, and close to 70 km/hr if you really spin. As long as you're not going down very steep downhills, or downhills with corners that require slowing and not pedaling you should be fine. If the downhill isn't crazy long, you should just be able to spin your legs like mad and keep some power down/HR up.
No major concerns about going uphill, no. Power is power whether flat, down, or up. Plus climbing is amazing and descending is the bomb so hills are pretty much tha bestest.
If you want a constant workbout, avoid those. It would be like planning a 3' VO2 interval, but having a 10s break in the middle. You could probably compensate, but it would definitely disrupt the workout. Any time you want consistent pedaling for an interval you definitely want to avoid stoplights. Those are completely disruptive. Also, as a general rule in my experience, roads with stoplights aren't generally the safest or best roads to ride when they can be avoided.
The key to really getting it right in my opinion is to feel your effort. Most people instinctively try to keep the gear turning at the same rate when they hit an uphill, which means they start laying down a ton of power. Most people are also too slow to shift into bigger gears going downhill, or subconsciously want to take it easy. Shift gears very quickly, and pay attention to the force on the pedals. Going over the top of a hill can easy be 3, 4, or 5 shifts in quick succession, often with 1-2s of each other, to keep the power down.
MTA: Dang. Your area is kind of a bummer. All the good stuff requires a decent bit of riding to get to. If you were trying to train like a pro it would be perfect, but for what you want you'd need to drive. Your best option that I imagine would be a great weekend ride with intervals, would be to ride from where you usually start your stuff out north to Burnaby mountain, do your reps on Burnaby, and then ride back.
If you do want to drive, that's probably money as far as a great spot to do intervals. But I realize driving 10-15 miles on a regular basis, especially across town, will likely be ridiculously onerous. If you're looking to have some nice weekend rides where you can drive and want a nice 2 or 3 hour ride I can give you some good suggestions though.
Given where you are you'll just have to figure out what's good using local knowledge, maybe find a nice loop with all right handers that you can use for hard days.
I can get my bike up to about 55 kph on a hill before the highest gear doesn't do much for me. The bike has two rings on the front and seven in the back.
Well, it did until this afternoon--the small ring on the front broke during my second rep in "the sweet spot." Can still ride it for now using just the big ring. Not sure if I should take it in to get fixed (which could take who knows how long) or try to ride it out until my foot comes around. On the upside, my physio had some very helpful suggestions when I saw him on Tuesday and my foot has been making real progress. I may not be on the bike long enough to see real results! He just won't be forced to do them at a job to stay afloat.
That's exciting and encouraging! Fingers crossed.
On October 18 2018 12:32 Bonham wrote: Could you elaborate a bit on avoiding common shifting mistakes? I've been trying to get into higher gears more quickly when a downhill is coming, but I'm sure I'm doing lots of other stuff like a chump. Do I want to maintain a higher cadence when climbing?
Also, what's MTA? How did you figure out all this stuff about riding where I live? Why would my neighbourhood be better for pro training?
For the big ring thing above, depends on what you'll be riding. If you do any real climbing you'll be forced to grind a pretty massive gear. Outside of missing out on the best cycling has to offer (climbing ) your bike is totally fine for riding rollers or flats. That's crazy the chainring broke...did it actually crack?
Shifting is really pretty simple. Every rider has an optimal cadence they prefer to ride at. Shift often and frequently to keep your cadence where you want it. One somewhat common mistake is to shift under load, i.e. when pedaling hard. This is hard on the bike, and can easily result in dropping a chain as well. To avoid this, right as you make the shift, easy of the pedal pressure to very light for half a revolution or so until the chain shifts. You'll get much snappier shifts that stress your bike less.
Cadence from climbing shouldn't really change much. Some people like to run a little lower cadence climbing, but that's preferential. Perhaps 80-85 climbing versus 95 or something on the flats. Which reminds me of one more shifting thing...if you want to stand, you need a lower cadence, usually it works to shift up 2-3 gears right before you go out of the saddle, then shift down right before you go back to sitting.
For the routes stuff, strava...with mad skillz of stalking! Not really. But kinda. I just looked at where most of your runs start to get a sense of where in the city you were. Then I set strava to look only at the climbs and looked at a few of those to see what was out (because climbs are usually good rides tbh) there. The other thing I did, was look at some of the guys topping the leaderboards, as these tend to be experienced racers that ride a bit and know the area and roads, and examined some of the routes they like. Strava also has a cool global heatmap feature that can give you an idea where people are riding. If you're decently zoomed out (50-75 miles on the screen?) it gives a good visualization of what's popular if it's fully white: https://www.strava.com/heatmap#10.00/-122.83589/49.20283/hot/all
On October 17 2018 20:27 tagliatelle wrote: Maybe I should do a bit of an introduction? I'm David 27/M/ 6'0 63kg from Vancouver. Lurked on TL for a while but only made an account recently. I both run and cycle but both casually / just for fun. Been biking fairly regularly for the last 5 years and running somewhat consistently for the last 3 years but I would do jogs and short bike rides for fun prior to that time frame and used to play soccer for a decade.
I ride an older 12-speed steel bike with downtube shifters and roughly split my riding time between commuting (14k each way, ~35 min) and fun rides (usually 30-40k, occasionally up to 60, 1.5-2 hrs most rides). Never raced or trained (in a specific plan like you guys mention) on a bike but I do like exploring new parts of the city and finding great views.
As for running, I joined a local club 2.5 years ago and really ramped up my consistency from there, but not really the mileage. I tend to do 20-30km/wk whenever the mood strikes me to run. I also don't race much but have done a few, almost all being 10k races. Last year my 10k time was 39:12, this year it was 38:05. My run club started up their track workouts this year after not doing it for the last 2 years and it's really helped me improve, even though my total mileage hasn't changed much. We just did a 1 Mile TT last week and I put up 5:27 which I was somewhat happy with but knew I could do better as my condition wasn't great going in to it (just got over a cold, still had a sore back hip from a fall). Next spring I want to do a half-marathon and try to get out on the trails (read: mountain trails) more often as most of my club does a lot of trail races. My goal for the half is under 1:40 which I think I am easily capable of as long a I train longer distances and put in more time.
Nice to "meet" you! As soon as I saw that height/weight combination, especially with the age I figured you'd be decently fast. Not many guys past HS that can hold onto a physique like that. Those are some pretty damn good times given just how low your mileage is. You could definitely shave anywhere between 2'-4' off that 10k with a solid year of training and working up to more traditional running mileage.
Honestly, given your mileage, I have a feeling that cold/injury really hurt your performance. Given the low mileage (usually results in drastically weaker performances as distance increases) I would be expecting 5:10 at a minimum, with a good chance at 4:50-5:00 if you're more anaerobically oriented and have some speed.
As for your half...you can run 1:40 right now. It wouldn't even be hard for you, you'd be a little tired if you don't regularly run over 10M/15km, but you wouldn't be challenged. I would set a B goal of 1:30 and an A goal of 1:25. Those are in line with your ability. 1:20-1:22 would be stretch goal range.
On October 18 2018 17:23 tagliatelle wrote: I'm part of fraser street run club but that's in the heart of vancouver so probably not too accessible. I know there's a North Burnaby run club that frequents Dageraad but in Surrey/South Surrey I don't know of anything. It would be worth checking out facebook or instagram (or just googling) to try to find a club if its something you want.
As for races, I'm pretty set on doing the BMO half but would like to get one in before that, probably a MEC race. I am a bit wary of signing up for anything in Jan/Feb as you can count on it to be pissing rain all day. Do you have any good suggestions on this front? I'm not too knowledgeable on the road race circuit. One of the real reasons I want to do a half is to be confident in doing trail races as those are almost always longer than 21.1km and we are so spoiled by the awesome trails that I feel a bit guilty for not taking advantage of it.
Ah, I've seen some FRC singlets, I believe. They say "No Jerks Allowed," right?
I'm afraid I'm not much use on winter halfs in the Lower Mainland area. BMO is OK in May but my favorite half course in the area is Scotiabank later in the summer. It's a very fair course that attracts a good field. You do run the risk of warm weather though.
Another runner I've met in my area is doing the "Fall Classic" on November 4. Starts at UBC; there-and-back course going down SW Marine Drive. He speaks highly of it but apparently it's sold out this year.
Then you've got First Half in February, which will probably be wet and cold.
There's a bunch more listed here, though I can't personally vouch for any of them.
If you're amenable to the 10k, the Sun Run is one of the premier road races at the distance in the country. Haven't done it in a few years but the field is always top notch.
I'm running the Disney Wine and Dine Half Marathon on Sunday. Hoping to make my official HM PR a 1:10 (the 1:10 I ran before was the HM split during a 13.4mi relay leg). I think I'm in similar shape but the course will probably be a bit slower and it'll likely be a totally solo effort. I'll report back on how it goes.
Monday - Easy spin, recovery or low aerobic intensity. Tuesday - 5x3' VO2 intervals. Think 3k intensity, maybe a little harder. If you've got a 3' climb somewhere...that's a pretty good benchmark for comparison. VO2 work, so usual 1:1 recovery. Progress to 8x3', then try to add intensity. No power to use, so you'll have to go by feel or find a decent climb to use as a comparison point. Wednesday - Sweet Spot. This is right below threshold. Somewhere between half marathon and MP. Intense, on the edge, but controlled. Start with 3x10' and build up 2' a week. So 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18' 3x20', then 1x60'. 2:00 recovery in between. These are best done on either a long climb (if available) or a good loop with uninterrupted roads, or at a worst case scenario a loop with only infrequent, right hand turns. Thursday - Depends on how you feel. Recovery if you're wrecked. If not, 5x3' with 1:00 recovery in between. This should be a little harder than threshold, think perhaps 8k-10k pace. Build to 7x3', then extend the rep length 10s or so per week. Friday - Recovery. Lazy spin. Saturday - 2-4 hour ride, include 3x10' intervals at threshold/10M race pace. Progress interval duration a little each week towards 3x20'. Rest of the the ride should be standard easy/aerobic spinning (equivalent to marathon pace + 60" to 90") Sunday - Anywhere from 0-3 hours. Mostly aerobic or tempo (MP or a smidge easier) riding.
Thanks again for putting this together, L_Master. I've been using it quite a bit. Foot's coming around, but I'm trying to be really conservative with it so I'm on the bike for a little while longer.
Quick training question for you:
It's been pretty rainy and cold here so I've been doing most of my rides on the stationary bike at the gym. These have power meters, I think, though I have no idea how accurate they are. (Is it like treadmills, where the speed can vary widely between models and their condition?)
Today I'm due for some 6x3' VO2, and I'll be on the trainer again. Is there a number of watts I should look to put out for this? Or is trail and error the only way to figure this out? In case weight matters here: I haven't weighed myself in a good while, but I think I'm around 150 pounds.
Monday - Easy spin, recovery or low aerobic intensity. Tuesday - 5x3' VO2 intervals. Think 3k intensity, maybe a little harder. If you've got a 3' climb somewhere...that's a pretty good benchmark for comparison. VO2 work, so usual 1:1 recovery. Progress to 8x3', then try to add intensity. No power to use, so you'll have to go by feel or find a decent climb to use as a comparison point. Wednesday - Sweet Spot. This is right below threshold. Somewhere between half marathon and MP. Intense, on the edge, but controlled. Start with 3x10' and build up 2' a week. So 3x12', 3x14', 3x16', 3x18' 3x20', then 1x60'. 2:00 recovery in between. These are best done on either a long climb (if available) or a good loop with uninterrupted roads, or at a worst case scenario a loop with only infrequent, right hand turns. Thursday - Depends on how you feel. Recovery if you're wrecked. If not, 5x3' with 1:00 recovery in between. This should be a little harder than threshold, think perhaps 8k-10k pace. Build to 7x3', then extend the rep length 10s or so per week. Friday - Recovery. Lazy spin. Saturday - 2-4 hour ride, include 3x10' intervals at threshold/10M race pace. Progress interval duration a little each week towards 3x20'. Rest of the the ride should be standard easy/aerobic spinning (equivalent to marathon pace + 60" to 90") Sunday - Anywhere from 0-3 hours. Mostly aerobic or tempo (MP or a smidge easier) riding.
Thanks again for putting this together, L_Master. I've been using it quite a bit. Foot's coming around, but I'm trying to be really conservative with it so I'm on the bike for a little while longer.
Quick training question for you:
It's been pretty rainy and cold here so I've been doing most of my rides on the stationary bike at the gym. These have power meters, I think, though I have no idea how accurate they are. (Is it like treadmills, where the speed can vary widely between models and their condition?)
Today I'm due for some 6x3' VO2, and I'll be on the trainer again. Is there a number of watts I should look to put out for this? Or is trail and error the only way to figure this out? In case weight matters here: I haven't weighed myself in a good while, but I think I'm around 150 pounds.
Weight won't really matter. Bigger guys usually have more power...but we don't know that power. Also, depending on the type of bike yea accuracy generally varies pretty significantly. If you can get the same bike, its usually not too bad. You could do the first one on feel, then use that average number to determine the rest of the intervals for. 3k pace effort, so you're looking for something that's hurting a bit by halfway, and good and painful the last 1' of the rep or so.
Whats the optimal temperature for cycling? i know its quiet low for runners, but from what i've read cyclists prefer higher temperatures, although ive never seen any specific numbers listed.
Im currently vacationing up north and while i got used to going on long rides, but whenever i go for a sprint effort i feel like my legs are bricks. Any tips?
On November 04 2018 00:14 SSNYC77 wrote: Whats the optimal temperature for cycling? i know its quiet low for runners, but from what i've read cyclists prefer higher temperatures, although ive never seen any specific numbers listed.
Im currently vacationing up north and while i got used to going on long rides, but whenever i go for a sprint effort i feel like my legs are bricks. Any tips?
Like running it varies a little by duration but for me I'd say low to mid 60s F is perfect. Anything above 70 definitely marginally affects performance. Anything above 80 will start to affect performance. Temperature below 60 can start to be a hindrance for muscle effectiveness for short, sharp events but something like 50 degrees would probably be more optimal for say...a long 2 hour climb.
I got the win but not as fast as I wanted. 1:11:48. It was warm and humid and the course has an absurd amount of turns, many of them sharp turns that are constantly slowing you down a second here and there. I'm gonna go hard at a 10k in a few weeks to try to put up a better time.
On November 07 2018 03:51 NonY wrote: I got the win but not as fast as I wanted. 1:11:48. It was warm and humid and the course has an absurd amount of turns, many of them sharp turns that are constantly slowing you down a second here and there. I'm gonna go hard at a 10k in a few weeks to try to put up a better time.
Still sweet moves, man. Breaking 1:12 in tough conditions on a twisty course is no joke. Have you picked a 10K?
Quick foot update: I've been super duper cautious coming back. Foot is recovering but I'm weirdly enjoying doing intervals on the stationary bike so I'm not in a huge panic. Saw physio for what is hopefully the last time yesterday. I'm off to Japan for two weeks on Sunday, so the plan is to baby the foot until then and then try some running on the trip if it keeps feeling good. (Hakone is supposed to have some great trails and views of Mt. Fuji.)
I think I have a chance at getting back to training when I return to Canada, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
On November 07 2018 03:51 NonY wrote: I got the win but not as fast as I wanted. 1:11:48. It was warm and humid and the course has an absurd amount of turns, many of them sharp turns that are constantly slowing you down a second here and there. I'm gonna go hard at a 10k in a few weeks to try to put up a better time.
Warm and Humid and still 1:11 high sounds solid, especially combined with a win. If warm and humid means something 70+ and humid I would definitely think this is good confirmation you have the fitness to go 1:09.
On November 07 2018 03:51 NonY wrote: I got the win but not as fast as I wanted. 1:11:48. It was warm and humid and the course has an absurd amount of turns, many of them sharp turns that are constantly slowing you down a second here and there. I'm gonna go hard at a 10k in a few weeks to try to put up a better time.
Warm and Humid and still 1:11 high sounds solid, especially combined with a win. If warm and humid means something 70+ and humid I would definitely think this is good confirmation you have the fitness to go 1:09.
What's the goal in the 10k, sub 31:30? Sub 31?
It was 68 at the start and 70 at the finish and 90%+ humidity. I also kinda cruised it in instead of pushing hard until the end. I was running solo and was not really "feeling it" with all the turns frustrating me and the heat that I wasn't used to so I slowed down a good bit in the last few miles. I had this same problem in some previous races so I really need to focus up at the end and suffer to earn the PR.
I think I will probably target around 31:15. If I happen to run a little under 31:00 pace in the first few miles and it doesn't feel crazy, I'll go with it and push for sub-31. 31:00 is apparently equivalent to a mid-1:08 so I'm not sure I want to plan on that just yet. But I do think I'm in sub-70 shape so trying to get under 31:30 is reasonable.
I'm sick right now though and taking a few days off so I hope my fitness doesn't dip.
I'm gonna go for it at a local turkey trot so November 22. There might be one guy to run with. There's a guy that wins every year who cruises a sub-32 but I'm pretty sure he's capable of faster if he has someone to race.
[QUOTE]On November 08 2018 04:37 NonY wrote: [QUOTE]On November 08 2018 04:00 L_Master wrote: [QUOTE]On November 07 2018 03:51 NonY wrote:
It was 68 at the start and 70 at the finish and 90%+ humidity. I also kinda cruised it in instead of pushing hard until the end. I was running solo and was not really "feeling it" with all the turns frustrating me and the heat that I wasn't used to so I slowed down a good bit in the last few miles. I had this same problem in some previous races so I really need to focus up at the end and suffer to earn the PR.
I think I will probably target around 31:15. If I happen to run a little under 31:00 pace in the first few miles and it doesn't feel crazy, I'll go with it and push for sub-31. 31:00 is apparently equivalent to a mid-1:08 so I'm not sure I want to plan on that just yet. But I do think I'm in sub-70 shape so trying to get under 31:30 is reasonable.
I'm sick right now though and taking a few days off so I hope my fitness doesn't dip.
I'm gonna go for it at a local turkey trot so November 22. There might be one guy to run with. There's a guy that wins every year who cruises a sub-32 but I'm pretty sure he's capable of faster if he has someone to race.[/QUOTE]
Woof, that humidity sounds awful.
Conventional wisdom in racing is that it's dang hard to PB running from the front unless your name is Kipchoge or Ayana. Running in a group, especially chasing someone, can work wonders. At your level, finding people to run with at smaller races is not guaranteed. Fingers crossed the Turkey Trot ace shows up!
I'm in full frustrated mode right now. Saw the doctor a few weeks ago, got a 10 day couse of Amoxcillin + Clavulanate, sinus infection went away. Felt great the last few days of that and the next four or five days. Got in some good rides.
Then bam. Started to feel it over the weekend and am back to sinus hell. Okay, that's a little strong, but it's constant feeling of moderate fullness in the face, occasional headaches, feeling "on the edge of being sick", and some fatigue. It's enough to not feel up to hard training, and I'm not sure if I should ride.
Back to see the doc again, probably a different antibiotic course this time and go from there...hopefully AB#2 will take care of it. Would be nice to get back to training. Not in panic mode yet...but if I end up losing another month we'll be getting there.
1:34:32!!! 9 minute PR! Such an amazing run, I had a near perfect race, started hurting around mile 10.5/11 and couldn't quite slam the second to last mile, but I flew down the downhill finish to finish strong. I'll write up a full report and link it here when I post it. For now I'm enjoying this, L_Master = great coach.
Edit: I also managed to beat my buddy/training partner which had never happened in our 4 years of training and racing together. I could tell he was a bit surprised when I passed him at the halfway point haha, definitely motivated me to keep pouring it on throughout the second half.
And now to enjoy about a month off, nothing but easy running till January then start building for my goal spring race likely the Cherry Blossom 10 miler. I may be messaging you around the end of December L_Master
By then I’ll also know if I got into the Chicago marathon...
And now to enjoy about a month off, nothing but easy running till January then start building for my goal spring race likely the Cherry Blossom 10 miler. I may be messaging you around the end of December L_Master
By then I’ll also know if I got into the Chicago marathon...
Now that's a race report! Even Bonham's can't compete :O
From a purely running standpoint, I think 2 months is on the long side. A little recovery time is good, but 2 months is definitely enough to move backwords a bit. If holidays are going to be busy, or you absolutely need 2 months away from structured training mentally, I would still try to have 1-2 days in December where you do some sort of unstructured harder efforts.
Starting riding my bike again about 3 months ago, after having stopped for 1 year and 3 months due to the most annoying knee injury, and I'm finally feeling confident that I'm going to put this injury behind me.
Short-story is I started having some discomfort in my knee which turned into some pain and then turned into constant 24h pain. Not super intense but enough to make my brain think about it non-stop and drive me crazy, and it would get worse with any form of exercise. After some months of physio, medical exams and no conclusive diagnosis I said fuck it I'm not gonna keep spending hundreds and see no results, so I decided to just let time heal it. And now although I still feel some occasional discomfort I can ride again.
So far I've been slowly increasing mileage and I can manage to do 100km+ rides though I have to keep myself from overdoing and blow everything. First month was terrible, felt like a snail, a really slow snail. Fortunately my weight didn't increase, I actually lost ~2kg though my body fat did increase a bit, but now I feel so much better. My fitness is slowly coming back, I've done some lovely rides and I'm looking towards 2019 and to start training properly somewhere in the first half of the year, when I feel it's safe to put some harder efforts, and maybe even doing 1 or 2 races latter in the year. I'd also like to do a little of running but nothing fancy, just a few easy runs to get used to it again.
Just wanted to share a bit since I also enjoy reading about my fellow TL athletes
And now to enjoy about a month off, nothing but easy running till January then start building for my goal spring race likely the Cherry Blossom 10 miler. I may be messaging you around the end of December L_Master
By then I’ll also know if I got into the Chicago marathon...
Now that's a race report! Even Bonham's can't compete :O
From a purely running standpoint, I think 2 months is on the long side. A little recovery time is good, but 2 months is definitely enough to move backwords a bit. If holidays are going to be busy, or you absolutely need 2 months away from structured training mentally, I would still try to have 1-2 days in December where you do some sort of unstructured harder efforts.
And yea, feel free to message me!
Yeah 2 months off is alot, I've already been getting a bit of an itch to start getting back at it. Probably going to at least keep up 1-2 days a week of harder running starting back up in a week or two and keep up 25-30 miles a week so I get to January with a decent foundation for the next build.
Had a bone scan on my foot today, which involved the following:
- Get to hospital at 7:20am. Get injected with solution of radioactive phosphates (the medical technician said the radioactive element was technetium, which I guess is the lightest element with all-radioactive isotopes). - Have gamma camera (big heavy imaging machine) take series of images of my feet. The radioactive tracer circulates right away, so the gamma camera can "see" my circulatory system with no delay. - Go away for 2.5 hours. - Come back and phosphate tracer has now been absorbed by bones. Second, longer set of pics taken with gamma camera.
Now I've gotta wait about a week for the radiologist to review the images. Then (I think?) I need to see my family doc again to review the results. Then, if I do have a stress fracture, I'll probably have to wear an air cast for a month.
So who knows, it might be January by the time I'm out of the cast. Luckily I'm enjoying doing intervals on the stationary bike.
Still, this is a little demoralizing, if I'm honest. I've now not run a marathon since 2015, and haven't done any fast running (by my modest standards, at least) since 2016. It will be 2019 before I'm ready to run again, and 2020 (at least) before I can run fast. Starting to wonder if the window on 2:2x has closed for me. I still love running and plan to do it into old age, but it's tough not to think that my days of setting PBs might be over.
On November 30 2018 09:26 Bonham wrote: Had a bone scan on my foot today, which involved the following:
- Get to hospital at 7:20am. Get injected with solution of radioactive phosphates (the medical technician said the radioactive element was technetium, which I guess is the lightest element with all-radioactive isotopes). - Have gamma camera (big heavy imaging machine) take series of images of my feet. The radioactive tracer circulates right away, so the gamma camera can "see" my circulatory system with no delay. - Go away for 2.5 hours. - Come back and phosphate tracer has now been absorbed by bones. Second, longer set of pics taken with gamma camera.
Now I've gotta wait about a week for the radiologist to review the images. Then (I think?) I need to see my family doc again to review the results. Then, if I do have a stress fracture, I'll probably have to wear an air cast for a month.
So who knows, it might be January by the time I'm out of the cast. Luckily I'm enjoying doing intervals on the stationary bike.
Still, this is a little demoralizing, if I'm honest. I've now not run a marathon since 2015, and haven't done any fast running (by my modest standards, at least) since 2016. It will be 2019 before I'm ready to run again, and 2020 (at least) before I can run fast. Starting to wonder if the window on 2:2x has closed for me. I still love running and plan to do it into old age, but it's tough not to think that my days of setting PBs might be over.
How old you are again?
I know it's easy to be bummed in the moment, but unless you're over 35 or something if you can figure out the health...then you're good and can make a good run at it. The only thing you really have going against you is the fact those PRs came after pretty solid 100mpw focused training for a length of time. Barring major mistakes in training or obvious things holding you back (poor diet, too much weight, really poor sleep, etc.) your days of making 5' jumps in a training cycle probably have closed.
Also on the plus side is that there is no guarantee you have Sfx. Fingers crossed.
On the other side of the coin, there is always the option to move towards the bike and set PRs for years to come there and just enjoy running for running without the stress of injuries and similar.
On November 30 2018 09:26 Bonham wrote: Had a bone scan on my foot today, which involved the following:
- Get to hospital at 7:20am. Get injected with solution of radioactive phosphates (the medical technician said the radioactive element was technetium, which I guess is the lightest element with all-radioactive isotopes). - Have gamma camera (big heavy imaging machine) take series of images of my feet. The radioactive tracer circulates right away, so the gamma camera can "see" my circulatory system with no delay. - Go away for 2.5 hours. - Come back and phosphate tracer has now been absorbed by bones. Second, longer set of pics taken with gamma camera.
Now I've gotta wait about a week for the radiologist to review the images. Then (I think?) I need to see my family doc again to review the results. Then, if I do have a stress fracture, I'll probably have to wear an air cast for a month.
So who knows, it might be January by the time I'm out of the cast. Luckily I'm enjoying doing intervals on the stationary bike.
Still, this is a little demoralizing, if I'm honest. I've now not run a marathon since 2015, and haven't done any fast running (by my modest standards, at least) since 2016. It will be 2019 before I'm ready to run again, and 2020 (at least) before I can run fast. Starting to wonder if the window on 2:2x has closed for me. I still love running and plan to do it into old age, but it's tough not to think that my days of setting PBs might be over.
How old you are again?
I know it's easy to be bummed in the moment, but unless you're over 35 or something if you can figure out the health...then you're good and can make a good run at it. The only thing you really have going against you is the fact those PRs came after pretty solid 100mpw focused training for a length of time. Barring major mistakes in training or obvious things holding you back (poor diet, too much weight, really poor sleep, etc.) your days of making 5' jumps in a training cycle probably have closed.
Also on the plus side is that there is no guarantee you have Sfx. Fingers crossed.
On the other side of the coin, there is always the option to move towards the bike and set PRs for years to come there and just enjoy running for running without the stress of injuries and similar.
I'm 31.
I know, theoretically, that if I string together a few years of good training I still have a shot at challenging my PBs. But those uninterrupted years of training are hard to come by. In 2016 my Chicago marathon plans were derailed by hip and knee issues. I lost most of 2017 to an Achilles tear, and now it looks like a broken foot will be the signature ailment of 2018. Running appreciable mileage while not getting injured is proving a tough needle to thread.
Anyway, I appreciate you striking the note of optimism. As you point out, all is not yet lost--and it never will be, really. We all come to a point when our best times are behind us at some point in life, and there's still much enjoyment of running to be had after this happens.
On November 30 2018 09:26 Bonham wrote: - Get to hospital at 7:20am. Get injected with solution of radioactive phosphates (the medical technician said the radioactive element was technetium, which I guess is the lightest element with all-radioactive isotopes). - Have gamma camera (big heavy imaging machine) take series of images of my feet. The radioactive tracer circulates right away, so the gamma camera can "see" my circulatory system with no delay. - Go away for 2.5 hours. - Come back and phosphate tracer has now been absorbed by bones. Second, longer set of pics taken with gamma camera.
Firstly, I hope your injury is not as serious as you think and are able to get back to running soon. Secondly, I actually work for a physics lab (not the add-on :p) that has an area on site that produces Tech-99 and ships it out to the hospitals nearby. The half-life is only 6 hours so it can't go very far but a few hospitals are starting to get small cyclotrons (a type of particle accelerator) that are able to produce these isotopes for medical imaging scans. Tech-99 is so ubiquitous not because it is the lightest radioactive isotope but because it produces the least amount of radiation exposure out of the possible radioactive isotopes that can be used for these types of scans. It is the most used medical isotope in the world. It used to be produced from enriched uranium targets (after a few decays and reactions) but now these small cyclotrons (about 5m diameter) have largely replaced them.
On November 30 2018 09:26 Bonham wrote: - Get to hospital at 7:20am. Get injected with solution of radioactive phosphates (the medical technician said the radioactive element was technetium, which I guess is the lightest element with all-radioactive isotopes). - Have gamma camera (big heavy imaging machine) take series of images of my feet. The radioactive tracer circulates right away, so the gamma camera can "see" my circulatory system with no delay. - Go away for 2.5 hours. - Come back and phosphate tracer has now been absorbed by bones. Second, longer set of pics taken with gamma camera.
Firstly, I hope your injury is not as serious as you think and are able to get back to running soon. Secondly, I actually work for a physics lab (not the add-on :p) that has an area on site that produces Tech-99 and ships it out to the hospitals nearby. The half-life is only 6 hours so it can't go very far but a few hospitals are starting to get small cyclotrons (a type of particle accelerator) that are able to produce these isotopes for medical imaging scans. Tech-99 is so ubiquitous not because it is the lightest radioactive isotope but because it produces the least amount of radiation exposure out of the possible radioactive isotopes that can be used for these types of scans. It is the most used medical isotope in the world. It used to be produced from enriched uranium targets (after a few decays and reactions) but now these small cyclotrons (about 5m diameter) have largely replaced them.
Whoa, far out! What a coincidence that you work in a lab that makes this stuff! The internet is pretty wild sometimes. Thanks for the insight. The medical tech who did my scan mentioned that they had a way of making the stuff on hospital grounds, so I assume they must have one of these small cyclotrons you mention.
Has this new way of making tech-99 solved the shortages that used to arise with enriched uranium? I remember those used to be much in the news but it seems to have gone quiet.
On December 03 2018 07:54 Bonham wrote: Whoa, far out! What a coincidence that you work in a lab that makes this stuff! The internet is pretty wild sometimes. Thanks for the insight. The medical tech who did my scan mentioned that they had a way of making the stuff on hospital grounds, so I assume they must have one of these small cyclotrons you mention.
Has this new way of making tech-99 solved the shortages that used to arise with enriched uranium? I remember those used to be much in the news but it seems to have gone quiet.
For the most part, yes it has. I think the accelerator production method has spread far enough that most large hospitals or radiotherapy centres use it. The old Uranium method was used to give an isotope of Molybdenum (99Mo) that did not occur naturally, and then that was shipped in a shielded vessel to where it was needed, and the Tech-99 was extracted chemically on site at the hospital. The accelerator method uses a different isotope of Molybdenum (100Mo) that does occur naturally as a target that is hit with protons to produce the Tech-99 isotope. I am not directly involved in this area of the lab, but I have learned a fair bit about it by proximity and my own research into it as I think it's interesting and important.
Bonus Facts: The area of the lab I am involved in is a prime candidate for large scale Actinium-225 production. 225Ac is a very promising cancer treatment that uses alpha emission to kill cancer cells. The difficult part is separating the end product so you are left with (mostly) only the 225Ac isotope and not the 227Ac isotope, which has a much much longer half life and will stay in the body producing more radiation that can cause new damage and cell mutations. But once the separation method has been figured out (there are quite a few places working on this that can also produce this isotope), we can make quite a lot of 225Ac. The production method uses leftover protons after other science experiments' targets to hit a Thorium target and can end up producing about 100-200% of the current global 225Ac output.
Back to running now. I participated in my first cross-country race on saturday and oh wow was it ever fun! The course was about 500m short of the advertised 10k but I finished in 40:15 which was good enough for 15th overall out of 148 runners. It rained for much of the past week but race day was clear, sunny and brisk. The course was 2 laps of a ~5k circuit with a beach section, grass, mulch trail, muddy hill, short wall, 100% mud and water section in the brush, and the "Puddle From Hell" which was about 50m long for the width of the path and gradually deepened from ankle to knee depth. Afterwards the race director remarked that the course was "a little dry this year". By far the slowest section was the beach. The first lap I didn't find it so bad but on the second lap with weaker legs and more roughed up sand combined with a rising tide made this really tough. The water section was for sure topped up by the race organizers beforehand but looking at past years I think we got off a little easy.
This race also had many middle and high school track / cross-country kids competing (mostly in the 5k, which if I raced instead I could have won....) which was awesome to see. I felt a bit jealous as my high school didn't have any sort of track program despite having the only track in town. Post-race there was pizza, soup, granola bars, bagels, fruit and most importantly showers. 10/10 would do again.
Also I had to go to work afterwards, not right after thankfully, but close enough that I went straight there with a sushi takeout stop for dinner later. This meant that I biked to the race, biked to work, then biked home for about 32km of relaxed cycle commuting along with the 10k race. I did some aggressive foam rolling last night but woke up with very sore calves. Some more foam rolling in the morning and the legs were feeling pretty good for my ride in to work again today. Generally I don't really push hard when I bike in to work, but I wouldn't say I slack off much either, although I did consciously try to take it a bit easier yesterday and today.
Stress fracture confirmed! 4th metatarsal joint. Kind of annoyed with the medical/physio advice that brought me to this point and took three months to diagnose it, but at least I can start healing properly now. It's good to have a diagnosis and clear path forward.
Wearing an Aircast as I type this, with crutches leaning against my desk. Luckily I'm told you can bike with an Aircast on so I'm looking forward to the ol' 7x3' @10k effort later today.
Thanks for the good vibes, L_Master and tagliatelle. I'll be back out there before too long in the grand scheme of things.
@tagliatelle, that sounds like a fun XC race! Do you have any plans to try another one? I should give XC a go at some point, I think. I have a pair of spikes somewhere I've never really used, but it seems like a fun time. Maybe when I'm out of this dang boot we could do a race together!
On December 07 2018 06:55 Bonham wrote: Stress fracture confirmed! 4th metatarsal joint. Kind of annoyed with the medical/physio advice that brought me to this point and took three months to diagnose it, but at least I can start healing properly now. It's good to have a diagnosis and clear path forward.
Wearing an Aircast as I type this, with crutches leaning against my desk. Luckily I'm told you can bike with an Aircast on so I'm looking forward to the ol' 7x3' @10k effort later today.
Thanks for the good vibes, L_Master and tagliatelle. I'll be back out there before too long in the grand scheme of things.
@tagliatelle, that sounds like a fun XC race! Do you have any plans to try another one? I should give XC a go at some point, I think. I have a pair of spikes somewhere I've never really used, but it seems like a fun time. Maybe when I'm out of this dang boot we could do a race together!
@L_Master, did AB#2 do the trick?
Hehe keep on keepin on Bonham! Crush dem intervals for now and good luck getting back on two legs!
As for AB...sorta....
Went away, came back, and is back but at a lower level. I wake up with a post nasal drip meh feeling through and feeling shitty but after I'm up for an hour I feel 95% of better. I'll probably curtail my training a bit but whatever I have no is manageable and I think I can train on it. Maybe not killer workouts, but enough for this time of year.
Damn that sucks Bonham I hope you make a speedy recovery. Ever since I started following you on strava (maybe 2014/2015 timeframe) you have been a major inspiration for me. Makes me appreciate the fact that other than some minor aches and pains I haven’t really had any serious injuries running over the five years I’ve been at it. Granted I’m not running 100 miles a week lol but next year might be my biggest yet. Waiting to see if I get into Chicago I think the drawing happens in a week or two.
So after lurking in this thread (and last years) for quite a while I thought about participating in the one for 2019 but I had a realization yesterday I wanted to share: I think I am no longer someone who just runs for fitness & fun but I have to call myself "a runner" now.
I didn't realize it because of running x times a week or hitting some arbitrary threshold pace but during shopping: While in the past I would've gone for the inconspicuous black, yesterday I was like "oooh I want the thermo tights with lots of neon yellow!"
I remember a reddit thread about a year ago titled: "Are all running shoes designed by colorblind 8 year olds?" and the top comment was "Yes, isn't it wonderful?" I don't know when or how it happened, but I'm totally one of those guys now!
Hah, happy to see this thread, might participate in the next one. Started running october last year, lost 20kg and went from no sport at all to my first marathon in 3h56'40" 2 weeks ago Pretty proud even though I trained like an idiot. And wow, Nony's times are as impressive as his starcraft carrier^^
On December 07 2018 23:31 LuckyFool wrote: Damn that sucks Bonham I hope you make a speedy recovery. Ever since I started following you on strava (maybe 2014/2015 timeframe) you have been a major inspiration for me. Makes me appreciate the fact that other than some minor aches and pains I haven’t really had any serious injuries running over the five years I’ve been at it. Granted I’m not running 100 miles a week lol but next year might be my biggest yet. Waiting to see if I get into Chicago I think the drawing happens in a week or two.
Thanks, man. It warmed the cockles of my heart (possibly even the subcockle area) to read that. Fingers crossed you get into Chicago!
Well I got into Chicago boys! Hotel reservations made today too, wanted to make sure I had something withing walking distance of the start line. Time to start training...
On December 12 2018 11:13 LuckyFool wrote: Well I got into Chicago boys! Hotel reservations made today too, wanted to make sure I had something withing walking distance of the start line. Time to start training...
On December 12 2018 11:13 LuckyFool wrote: Well I got into Chicago boys! Hotel reservations made today too, wanted to make sure I had something withing walking distance of the start line. Time to start training...
Yeehaw! That's awesome news man. I've heard it's a really special race and a fast course. Can't wait to follow your training!
I just picked up some more serious running again, aiming for a half marathon in February and maybe breaking the 4hour barrier for Marathon later next year (I had 2 near misses so far.)
Going for the very doable 1x intervals and 1x long session per week, hoping to add a 3rd and 4th weekly session down the road. Let's see how it goes!
On December 18 2018 20:21 Slydie wrote: I just picked up some more serious running again, aiming for a half marathon in February and maybe breaking the 4hour barrier for Marathon later next year (I had 2 near misses so far.)
Going for the very doable 1x intervals and 1x long session per week, hoping to add a 3rd and 4th weekly session down the road. Let's see how it goes!
Good goals! I hope what you wrote means you're running hard 2x per week, but still running 5-7x per week. If you;re only running at all 2x per week...that's your big limiter.
On December 18 2018 20:21 Slydie wrote: I just picked up some more serious running again, aiming for a half marathon in February and maybe breaking the 4hour barrier for Marathon later next year (I had 2 near misses so far.)
Going for the very doable 1x intervals and 1x long session per week, hoping to add a 3rd and 4th weekly session down the road. Let's see how it goes!
Good goals! I hope what you wrote means you're running hard 2x per week, but still running 5-7x per week. If you;re only running at all 2x per week...that's your big limiter.
It actually did men 2x per week only, with some walking and transport cycling as well. However, I will take your advice an up to more times per week, but not 5-7 just yet as I have had some injuries in the past. The last 10k race I was preparing well for I had to quit because of a small muscle fracture that would have become way worse by finishing.
That being said, I had a nice 75min run yesterday, keeping the puls zones of my guru Hechmann. I believe new PBs for both half and full marathon are within my grasp!
Hello everyone, My 2018 has been pretty swell running-wise; overall pleased with my consistency with volume and diet (167 to 154 over the last four months) and been blessed to avoid serious injuries - hips been my weakness throughout the year but I think I got it covered; just got to keep at it with the hip stability strengthening stuff. As for 2019, Im hoping I can keep the momentum going and gradually increase work out intensity - if everythings going well come spring I’ll sign up for a marathon
2018 has been as expected. Nothing much happening, so general fitness regression giving how well I was able to train early 2017, and to some extent later 2017. The end of 2018 has been crap, with this chronic sinusitis. CT scan Monday, so hopefully that will start to ascertain next steps in treatment since "wait it out" doesn't look like it's going to work in this case.
hey guys I wanna pick up cycling as one of my activities for working out from March on. I was always a bit reluctant because the financial bar of entry is quite high for a reasonable buy and equip, plus I live in an area where weather is horribly bad most of the year. Streets are wet, its windy and its raining quite frequently outside of summer. But I just discovered zwift through lmasters stream and this would be an ideal addition to deal with the weather.
So my question now is, what kind of bike should I try to buy. Im quite slim on budget and could afford to spend about 500€. Should I buy used bikes? What to pay attention to?
Hey MarcoJ! Cycling is great but it does indeed have a high entry bar, and you need to be aware of everything you should have, the bike is just a part of it. You don’t need any premium stuff and still enjoy cycling, but there are a few things I’d recommend you to think about getting.
For road bikes, decathlon has some good cheap ones such as the triban500. There may be cheaper options but I’ve never really searched much. If you don’t have someone a bit experienced with bikes to check used bikes with you I’d recommend you stay away from that option, there are many non-obvious things to look for which are hard to summarize here. Your bike should come with flat pedals which are the cheaper option as they don’t need specific shoes.
Also don’t cut corners on equipment. At least a decent jacket is a must for cold/bad weather, and gloves are also very important. A cycling jersey is very useful but regular sports short/longsleeve shirts can also do a good job. As for tights/pants, cycling specific ones are obviously better but if you can’t buy them straight away, some tighter sports pants can do although they are not really ideal. Again deacthlon has some cheaper equipment and I’ve also heard Lidl and Aldi (both german stores I think) have entry level stuff.
You also need the tools for changing flat tires. Few things are worse than having a flat tire far from home. Ideally you should always take on your rides at least 1 spare inner tube, tyre levers and a pump (co2 pumps are great but get really cold when used and can cause nasty frost burns if not properly handled). There are kits that come with everything you need but you can buy things seperately.
LMaster can give you more details about Zwift as I don’t have it but it requires that you have a turbo trainer which is not exactly cheap and you need to pay a monthly/yearly(?) subscription.
The budget is a bit tight but it is better if you can plan things ahead and not find, after spending your money, that you need a bunch of extra stuff. Hope it helped!
I just did a 12k race, 3 laps with 3 significant hills each. It went ok, but I felt an old injury already in the first descent, and now I am not sure how much my leg muscle can take. Yeye, I still have faith, but I have to be very carefu going forwardl:-(
On January 11 2019 06:00 Slydie wrote: I just did a 12k race, 3 laps with 3 significant hills each. It went ok, but I felt an old injury already in the first descent, and now I am not sure how much my leg muscle can take. Yeye, I still have faith, but I have to be very carefu going forwardl:-(
Please use the 2019 thread!
Congrats on the race, sorry about the injury but glad it's not worse!
Cycling is a perfect activity to train your muscles. With cycling, you can work your lower body and core. Your glutes, hamstrings, shins, and glutes will instantly be activated and active. As you repeatedly push down on the pedals, you activate your quads. Therefore, bulging calf muscles are very noticeable in cyclists. When you're at 12 o'clock and 5 o'clock, most of your major muscles are activated, but between 6 and 12 o'clock, you'll find some knee crunches that benefit the lower body muscles. your body.