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2774 Posts
On April 10 2018 16:46 Pandemona wrote: Bottas didn't have dead tyres? Vettel was on soft tyres which die after 30 laps, by the end of the race he had ran them for 39! Bottas and Hamilton had 30 lap old MEDIUM tyres the same tyres they ran for well over 50 laps in practice without a bother which is why they were one stop statedgy. Bottas also pitted after Vettel so he had the fresher rubber that lasts way longer. He justs didn't have the pace to catch him, don't forget we saw Lewis get pulled in quite quickly on degrading tyres by Vettel on his fresh set of soft tyres, was within like 2-3 laps of him coming out of the pits on his Softs. Bottas didn't have the pace at all to challenge it seems and only caught Vettel due to Vettel really coming off the pace due to tyres dying. Bottas should have turned the engine up and went for him before lap 50 due to applying pressure to Ferrari making Vettel drive the car and causing even more issues. Martin Brundle mentions it during his race recap he posted yesterday. They were pretty dead when he finally got in DRS range, again not as dead as Vettel's but I think Mercedes themselves were really surprised how well Vettel handled it, that was quite lucky after all. You really don't think Mercedes (his side anyway) analyzed the situation and/or was an influence in the decision making? Unless you have pretty damning team radio evidence I highly doubt that's true. Shifting all the blame onto the driver here feels quite silly here, which was my point really.
I mean honestly are you really asking that much from a driver that's not Hamilton, Vettel or Alonso for that matter? No other drivers can really push like they can so expecting such a pace from an above average driver is just unreasonable, and it's not like there's any obvious choices to replace him out there either. "Get a driver like Lewis" just isn't a thing. Makes you appreciate Rosberg.
I doubt Lewis would have been able to pass Vettel were he in the same situation, he obviously would have made it closer but.. That's just stupid hypotheticals.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51325 Posts
He had tyres that were able to go 50 plus laps and they had done less than 39 laps which is the number that Vettel did on the "soft" compound, on a car which was less than half a second slower than Ferarri's during practice on the same tyres in question. Why wouldn't you blame the driver for only catching him when the tyres dropped off severely and not applying any pressure to Vettel at all prior to the last 4-5 laps. Mercedes said they had the race 90% won, yet they didn't win? They said Lewis messed up that race for himself alot too (also noted in the Brundle recap). I don't see how you can defend Bottas for anything here when we saw Vettel breeze past Hamilton in the exact same situation within a lap (might have been 2) of getting fresh softs on when Lewis' Softs had deteriorated.
He caught up to a Vettel in the closing stages and the German was arguably there for the taking on those tyres, but the Finn was hampered by a costly lock-up and then perhaps wasn't quite aggressive enough on the final lap. As Sky F1 commentator David Croft noted: "I'd imagine that [someone like] Daniel [Ricciardo] might have made a lunge into Turn One to see if it would have come off."
This quote also from the Sky Driver Ratings analysis.
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2774 Posts
Lmao he pushed quite a lot early in his second stint, evident by the lap times so it's not like he was cruising on those tires. Not to mention Vettel got a little bit of help from traffic, although perhaps neglible. He did one lock up (yes I watched the race too) which was a little bit detrimental but I don't think it affected things that much. You rightly point out with your quote of yours that he didn't make a lunge, which was really risky at that corner with that distance.
You don't think it's more about Mercedes being surprised by Vettel? Sure he drives quite safe but that's not even that bad for a #2 driver. Does he need to improve his overall performance? Yes. Was this race a bad performance? No.
Sorry for not putting blame on drivers, and praising others instead I guess.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51325 Posts
I am not saying Vettel didn't drive well, he did drive well but Bottas drove way to passively and was just cruising behind Vettel expecting him to fall off a cliff and cruise past him which is not going to happen. Hamilton would have been way closer way earlier just like in Australia where he was trying so hard for a long period before understanding he was never getting past Vettel on that narrow track.
I understand the bad air issue and you don't want to be behind and in it for a long period of time but as Hamilton proved in Australia you can have a real good go for a reasonable amount of time before it becomes an issue. Bottas was only ever behind him in the air for like 2-3 laps at most. I feel Bottas thought it would be easy pickings when the tyres come off and didn't force the issue of getting behind him quicker because he thought it was an "inevitable" win
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On April 10 2018 07:36 Nixer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2018 02:08 LennX wrote: Oh hell no. Kimi is not really motivated in F1 and likewise for Lewis. I dont think you will want to have 1 unmotivated driver (Kimi) and 1 semi motivated driver (Lewis) in your lineup.
Ric gotta leave RBR. I'm seeing echoes of Webber/Vettel situation for Ric where RBR will favour the younger driver Says who? Kimi not being motivated in F1 is just not true, he may not be as motivated as before but if he really wasn't that motivated he wouldn't be in F1 to begin with. To be honest he simply just doesn't have the pace in this era, be it because of the difference in the actual cars, it not suiting his driving style that he had in the past or him being very particular to the setup. It could be any number of things but compared to the likes of Vettel and Hamilton he's just not there (anymore). (Whether or not Hamilton is that motivated to continue is another matter though, I have gotten the notion he'd want to at least continue if he'd be able to snatch this years WDC. For that chance of beating Schumacher's record.)
Yup, I meant that Kimi is not as motivated as before. He just doesn't seem to be able or willing to push much.He seems to be happy as a no2 driver and work for the team.
As for Hamilton, he has said he wasn't interested in chasing Schumacher's record. However the 5th WDC seems to be of interest to him to prove beyond doubt that he's the best driver of the current generation.
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Magnificent laps from Ferrari. Kimi had a great qualifying session and almost got pole.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51325 Posts
Lol honda powered renault stil out qualifying Mclaren oh boy xd
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Such a wonderful play by Vettel. He blocks Kimi and caused Kimi to lose 2 places at the start. Not bad for a no1 driver fucking up his no2 driver.
Ricciadro is dominating the race after the SC restart. Is Verstappen the new Maldonado? lollollol skysports: "Vettel got Verstappened"
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Verstappen really is a dickhead
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The butterfly effect F1 version. Gasly and Hartley crashed when fighting for 12312th place... Ricardo wins the race.
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wow, just wow. GGs all around.
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SoCal, USA3955 Posts
Waking up to Riccardo winning?? Woh! :D Awesome!
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51325 Posts
I have alot of problems with F1 right now TT
Race 1 - Whole race changes on stroke of luck due to Virtual Safety Car giving a 20 second window for an undercut, race win is decided Race 3 - Whole race changes when Red Bull are the only ones able to pit due to track position on the SC...whole race changes because of it
Maybe we can look into the rule of being able to pit and keep track position under SC/VSC because that is very silly. Verstappen has to be stupidly close to a race ban now as well and its only 3 races old lol, guy is nuts. Vettell for once was calm during race after it happened but still because of it got messed up severely and Verstappen still finishes ahead of him!
Riccardo win was good, some nice moves, the same move he did 3 times is just down to having grippier tyres into turn 1 from the long straight. Just was quite clear he had so much more grip that it kinda took away from the achievement imo. Was a fun race for some wrong reasons though, lots of drama.
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Germany3128 Posts
On April 16 2018 17:24 Pandemona wrote: Maybe we can look into the rule of being able to pit and keep track position under SC/VSC because that is very silly. Verstappen has to be stupidly close to a race ban now as well and its only 3 races old lol, guy is nuts. Vettell for once was calm during race after it happened but still because of it got messed up severely and Verstappen still finishes ahead of him!
IMO it's even worse. Because Verstappen only got a 10 sec penalty this effectively also gave Hamilton extra points over Vettel. From Vettels POV either no penalty or a harsher penalty for Max would have been better but instead this joke happened. Meh. I was really surprised how calm Sebastian was afterwards. I expected him to be fuming.
In other news: what's actually going on with Verstappen? 5 crashes/big driving errors in only 3 races? This is even worse than last season. He is regressing from talented, upcoming hotshot to a slightly more talented Maldonado. This is his 4th season in F1. At some point he needs to mature and realize he doesn't drive in F3 anymore
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51325 Posts
He is just going so very aggressive for whatever reason i don't know either. He is like Grosjean crazy at this moment, making dives down the inside with no gaps, or just losing concentration. Im sure he will be told by Red Bull in the debreif he needs to watch himself.
Indeed i can't believe how calm Vettel was, he normally blows his lid for this stuff and righfully so in this case, he got screwed so very hard. However because Hamilton was not at it again this weekend it seems (might be other issues im not sure) the points lost to him was not as much as it could hae been.
I forgot to mention i was a bit surprised with how much Vettel pushed Raikonen his own team mate out on the start, i know he did technically nothing wrong in the rulebook, but it was such an aggressive move from Vettel to cause Kimi to have no room at all. Was like wow, thats your team mate Vettel calm down xD
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Well the start worked for Vettel, it also fucked Hamilton up too as he had to slow way down for Rai and then again as they were going round the corner which let Ver overtake both him and Rai. Hopefully Hamilton picks up the pace for the next race.
Also fantasy F1 is finally out 4 races into the season https://fantasy.formula1.com
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On April 16 2018 19:00 TheNewEra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2018 17:24 Pandemona wrote: Maybe we can look into the rule of being able to pit and keep track position under SC/VSC because that is very silly. Verstappen has to be stupidly close to a race ban now as well and its only 3 races old lol, guy is nuts. Vettell for once was calm during race after it happened but still because of it got messed up severely and Verstappen still finishes ahead of him!
IMO it's even worse. Because Verstappen only got a 10 sec penalty this effectively also gave Hamilton extra points over Vettel. From Vettels POV either no penalty or a harsher penalty for Max would have been better but instead this joke happened. Meh. I was really surprised how calm Sebastian was afterwards. I expected him to be fuming. In other news: what's actually going on with Verstappen? 5 crashes/big driving errors in only 3 races? This is even worse than last season. He is regressing from talented, upcoming hotshot to a slightly more talented Maldonado. This is his 4th season in F1. At some point he needs to mature and realize he doesn't drive in F3 anymore
Its definitely a mental thing. Its no deniable Verstappen is extremely talanted, but last year with all the problems with Red Bull's reliability really struck him bad. He was supposed to be in fighting for the championship, and his frustration grew. He probably couldnt really cope with the reality and now you see him making these mistakes.
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Formula Safety Car... What a thrilling race. And yeah, Verstappen is the new Maldonado
Aaand after derping whole race Hamilton won, great
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Germany3128 Posts
Should have red flagged it...
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hahaha what an amazingly crazy finish
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