|
On April 25 2018 11:49 xwoGworwaTsx wrote: tbh goat conversations are boring and stupid.
there are no objective ways to compare a player from one era to another on equal statistical grounds even if their position and play style is the same as there are a lot of variables and complexities.
it always ends up with old people being nostalgic and young people being captives of the moment.
fun fact about statistics tho: kobe is a better passer than lebron in clutch situations and this is significant because lebron plays point and kobe has lower ball possession time in 2-minute mark.
the caveat here is that kobe had shaq and gasol while lebron "only" had kyrie and love and dwade bosh, so centers vs. shooters.
apples and oranges, but it just proves my point about use of stats and goat conversation.
lets just enjoy great games and great players. I disagree, just because there is no "right answer" doesn't mean it is a worthless discussion. It is interesting to hear what people think and why.
BTW the clutch passing stat has to be the worst stat of all time. It only measures whether the guy you passed it to makes the shot. If someone really wanted to know they should break down the plays and take a look at the quality of the pass, and the quality of the shot that was created. The person making it or not really has little to do with passer, and this is even more true in sample size as small as "clutch passing".
|
i walked past Maple Leaf Square where the Raptors/Maple Leafs/TFC triple cast will be held tonight. The Leafs are in Game 7 of a playoff series. The TFC are trying to win CONCACAF. They are expecting thousands people. They are sticking concrete barriers all over the place, police will be viewing the giant open areas from makeshift watch towers. The place resembles a war zone with all the cops. Its very sad.
Maple Leaf Square was a lot more fun when there was minimal security and it was basically "organized lunacy".
Rather than stand in the rain all night with police snipers looking down on me i think i'll go to a sports bar.
|
It will be very interesting to see how the Spurs' offseason goes. Lots of important decisions to make.
|
I find the "best team" discussions more interesting than the GOAT discussion.The best player could be determined by a lot of factors outside of the player's control: position, era, quality of teammates.
|
On April 26 2018 03:01 darthfoley wrote: It will be very interesting to see how the Spurs' offseason goes. Lots of important decisions to make. Them and the Heat have a lot going on. Both have their top player (is it Whiteside even now? dude is confusing) not getting along with the franchise.
|
On April 25 2018 22:39 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2018 11:49 xwoGworwaTsx wrote: tbh goat conversations are boring and stupid.
there are no objective ways to compare a player from one era to another on equal statistical grounds even if their position and play style is the same as there are a lot of variables and complexities.
it always ends up with old people being nostalgic and young people being captives of the moment.
fun fact about statistics tho: kobe is a better passer than lebron in clutch situations and this is significant because lebron plays point and kobe has lower ball possession time in 2-minute mark.
the caveat here is that kobe had shaq and gasol while lebron "only" had kyrie and love and dwade bosh, so centers vs. shooters.
apples and oranges, but it just proves my point about use of stats and goat conversation.
lets just enjoy great games and great players. I disagree, just because there is no "right answer" doesn't mean it is a worthless discussion. It is interesting to hear what people think and why. BTW the clutch passing stat has to be the worst stat of all time. It only measures whether the guy you passed it to makes the shot. If someone really wanted to know they should break down the plays and take a look at the quality of the pass, and the quality of the shot that was created. The person making it or not really has little to do with passer, and this is even more true in sample size as small as "clutch passing". Then we disagree on what "worthy discussion" means.
you are correct on your note about quality pass and that is already factored in which is what makes that stat even more a bad look for lebron.
clutch passing is simply assist made within 2 minutes with the game within 5. you can extend that to 10 and the results are the same.
for kobe, those assists are spread out from all range 20ft to under the rim as a result of being double teamed even triple teamed and drawing defenders to make the correct pass to the open teammate whether its shaq gasol farmar walton or anyone. watch bryants detail series to see this is action.
for lebron most come from his left wing drive to the key and then pass to the shooters.
the difference is that bryants assist comes as a result of manipulating and reading the defense while lebron is like a rigid set play. you can see how this is in that in many cases lebron will give up an easy layup within 6 or 7 feet to still get the assist.
so, statistically speaking, this means that in game end situation, bryant is more versatile because he can manipulate the defense and be a real threat in scoring while lebron its more kinda a given set.
On April 26 2018 03:26 Jerubaal wrote: I find the "best team" discussions more interesting than the GOAT discussion.The best player could be determined by a lot of factors outside of the player's control: position, era, quality of teammates. correct.
there are maybe objectively greatest 10 players, then top 20, 50. but to say that 1 player from the 70s is better than another from the 90s who is better than another from 2010s is nonsense.
|
On April 26 2018 03:34 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 03:01 darthfoley wrote: It will be very interesting to see how the Spurs' offseason goes. Lots of important decisions to make. Them and the Heat have a lot going on. Both have their top player (is it Whiteside even now? dude is confusing) not getting along with the franchise.
too bad its probably next to impossible to move whiteside
|
Casey deserves a lot of credit for tonight's win. Another Frankenstein of a lineup concoction by Casey gets the job done.
any how, let's go back in time 13 months...
On March 28 2017 11:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Delon Wright could steal the stripes off of a zebra its gonna be interesting to see what he can do against some better guards.
nice game by Delon tonight... that steal on Wall was epic.
|
finally raps decided to play some D tonight
|
Raps take care of business in the 4th with DD, Lowry, Wright, miles and Valancuines. Special shout out to the Lithuanian lightning who was a monster all game but big in the 4th!
|
Set up for a great finish, pacers came back then lebron with a big turnover then big block (possible goaltend) 3 seconds left.
|
And he hits a clutch three. LeBron is amazing, love or hate him.
|
Reminds me of the MIN game earlier this year. Get the block on the other team's best player, call timeout, hit the shot at the buzzer to win the game.
|
Man the Jazz are dunking on them
|
And immediately after I say that its tied.
|
What a comeback! It happened so fast
|
|
@xxgworatsx
Without going into whether you are right or wrong, you are mistaken in thinking greatest = best. Greatest does not mean best. It means who was better against their contemporaries. Of course you can't easily compare time periods but there are still smart ways to go about it with the information we have.
I don't care for GOAT discussions either but when done correctly like the backpick ones I linked, the thought process alone behind it can lead to interesting discoveries. Approaching such discussions thinking there's only one possible way to list the top players would be the wrong way to go about it.
|
On April 26 2018 12:30 JimmiC wrote: Gobert's fouls so big. No melo for jazz to abuse on D during most of that run too I think. But ya.
edit: glad we get to see this series back in Utah though 8D
|
Watching this TNT segment remindse.of how many wierdo 3s LeBron has hit. Now, no one is ever happy when a great player has the ball at the end, but I feel like he is somehow more dangerous taking shitty threes on a turnaround fadeaway than just spot up.
|
|
|
|