I don't think it's enough though. Blizzard was quite clear on considering the fundamentals of Starcraft II to be a success, with only a few match-ups having some issues. I think it's a pity, I mean, if you compare this game to some of its competition, such as dota, wc3 or brood war (or chess for that matter), then in my opinion it falls short and this expansion was their final chance to address this. So far I have seen no indication that the expansion is going to do anything other than replacing the current metagame with a newer, slightly superior one.
Any other Terrans really displeased with HotS? - Page 11
Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS |
Grumbels
Netherlands7028 Posts
I don't think it's enough though. Blizzard was quite clear on considering the fundamentals of Starcraft II to be a success, with only a few match-ups having some issues. I think it's a pity, I mean, if you compare this game to some of its competition, such as dota, wc3 or brood war (or chess for that matter), then in my opinion it falls short and this expansion was their final chance to address this. So far I have seen no indication that the expansion is going to do anything other than replacing the current metagame with a newer, slightly superior one. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13372 Posts
With a widow mine buff, we might actually see some interesting use. Keep in mind, there are a lot of WoL tournaments coming up. I think if the beta goes into early2013 we will see some awesome changes. | ||
stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On September 19 2012 08:45 ZeromuS wrote: I think they need to do a lot more invites before we can see where the game is really going. With a widow mine buff, we might actually see some interesting use. Keep in mind, there are a lot of WoL tournaments coming up. I think if the beta goes into early2013 we will see some awesome changes. Into the fucking ground. Terran has no good units that were introduced. We're now going to be facing problems that we haven't faced in the past except with the SAME units that we've been attempting to use to adapt as the meta game has evolved. There comes a point in time where these units won't be able to work in sync to win games because we won't be able to handle the new and powerful combinations of units. The new mines are going to be shut down so hard by protoss players and zerg players once they start walking around with overseers and observers, which many already do. HotS looks like shit for Terrans at this point in time because of Blizzard's lack of true effort to fulfill the unit role Terran needs. | ||
wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
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neoghaleon55
United States7434 Posts
On September 19 2012 06:58 Crawdad wrote: From DB: Well, that's actually pretty shocking. Wow...simply wow. Terran really got the shaft now. I hope they change their minds. | ||
Serpico
4285 Posts
On September 19 2012 09:06 wcr.4fun wrote: lol 2 years for the battle hellion and the widow mine. LOL :D Pretty much sums it up, I'd feel so deflated as a terran right now. | ||
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 19 2012 08:04 Qikz wrote: All that needs to happen to make mech viable in TvP is to give mech a way of working without needing 10-15 ghosts (which you have to do now, trust me, I play mech). Mass immortal just completely shuts down mech, it's so unbelievable cost efficient that it's unreal. If you can give mech a way to punish mass, mass immortal on the factory then this problem could be avoided completely. I really hope they don't give up on mech TvP. It'd be so nice to finally be able to go mech and not feel at a complete disadvantage as soon as you move your first workers. I don't know but for me mass banshee support works fine without ghosts in WoL - though ghosts are definatly a great addition as well. | ||
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 19 2012 09:16 neoghaleon55 wrote: Wow...simply wow. Terran really got the shaft now. I hope they change their minds. 2 new units, complete overhaul of the reaper, 2buffs to existing units (Raven speed, Yamato canon) I mean, zerg "only" got two new units and a "speed" upgrade for hydras that doesn't even work like a speed upgrade and Protoss "only" got 3 new units. | ||
Doko
Argentina1737 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 19 2012 13:20 Doko wrote: what changed for yamato? 125 energy --> 100 energy | ||
Kinaesthetic
United States19 Posts
On September 19 2012 13:15 Big J wrote: 2 new units, complete overhaul of the reaper, 2buffs to existing units (Raven speed, Yamato canon) I mean, zerg "only" got two new units and a "speed" upgrade for hydras that doesn't even work like a speed upgrade and Protoss "only" got 3 new units. Widow Mine = Useless, worse version of the spider mines laid by Vultures in BW. Reaper = either UP or OP. Its a unit just like the warhound in that it is too good at what it does or, if nerfed, is pretty much useless. Battle Hellion = Just a remade hellion good at combating very specific strategies against P/Z lategame compositions. And those upgrades to existing units.... Its just stale game design. Every single change/addition (with the exception of the practically useless widow mine) is something that could have been put in as an easy patch for WoL. Recycled content and things that could honestly just be implemented right now shouldn't justify being called an expansion Litterally, right now there is nothing in the HOTS Terran arsenal that can justify paying for an expansion that gives us nothing new. | ||
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 19 2012 13:41 Kinaesthetic wrote: Widow Mine = Useless, worse version of the spider mines laid by Vultures in BW. Reaper = either UP or OP. Its a unit just like the warhound in that it is too good at what it does or, if nerfed, is pretty much useless. Battle Hellion = Just a remade hellion good at combating very specific strategies against P/Z lategame compositions. And those upgrades to existing units.... Its just stale game design. Every single change/addition (with the exception of the practically useless widow mine) is something that could have been put in as an easy patch for WoL. Recycled content and things that could honestly just be implemented right now shouldn't justify being called an expansion Litterally, right now there is nothing in the HOTS Terran arsenal that can justify paying for an expansion that gives us nothing new. wow, so you figuered out HotS before balancing/designing it is even finished... lol and fyi, widow mine gets a buff in the next patch. Also I can't see vultures or spider mines in SC2, so comparing them in terms of strength makes no sense. (guess what: hydralisks - just a worse version of the marine; roaches - just a worse version of the marauder) | ||
delayed reflex
Canada358 Posts
I'm thinking that instead of new units, new upgrades could be utilized to allow for a larger variety of units to be used in a variety of matchups. Here are some things I thought up: Improved Circuitry - Feedback no longer deals damage to Terran mechanical units that use energy - banshee, thor, BC, raven - (or perhaps just deals reduced damage - perhaps 50% or whatever ends up being balanced) though it still drains all energy. This would prevent feedback from insta-countering all Terran late-game units - feedback would still be very useful as it would drain energy, but it won't also instagib ravens/banshees and heavily damage BCs/thors. If this upgrade needs a more general purpose than simply countering one aspect of Protoss play, it could also cause energy to regenerate 10% faster. Modular Turrets - This upgrade would either allow turrets to be salvageable as bunkers are, or allow them to transform and pack up to a mobile mode (effectively making them like spore crawlers). The idea is to give mech some ability to have some sort of fairly inexpensive, repositionable but not highly mobile anti-air, in addition to just the thor. Standardized Assembly - This factory-techlab upgrade (starport required) allows vikings in ground-mode to be built from the factory, and gives vikings vehicle upgrades instead of ship upgrades (or whichever upgrade of the two is higher). This would allow vikings to more easily become part of the mech composition. If implemented, the above Modular Turrets might not be needed. Defensive matrix - Might help BC's avoid getting instagibbed by corrupters and potentially more useful in all matchups when you have smaller numbers of BCs that you need to keep alive, switching to yamato once you have reached critical mass. Also they could implement some small things like making raven autoturrets scale damage and armor with ship upgrades, and perhaps be treated as non-armored units, as currently autoturrets are quite underutilized. In addition, Thor 150mm cannon could probably also use a range increase from 7 to 8. | ||
Asymptote1
121 Posts
On September 19 2012 08:56 stevarius wrote: Into the fucking ground. Terran has no good units that were introduced. We're now going to be facing problems that we haven't faced in the past except with the SAME units that we've been attempting to use to adapt as the meta game has evolved. There comes a point in time where these units won't be able to work in sync to win games because we won't be able to handle the new and powerful combinations of units. The new mines are going to be shut down so hard by protoss players and zerg players once they start walking around with overseers and observers, which many already do. HotS looks like shit for Terrans at this point in time because of Blizzard's lack of true effort to fulfill the unit role Terran needs. Except....Terran doesn't NEED any other rolls filled...You obviously have very little experience with terran if you honestly think its in rough shape and is full of holes. Protoss is full of holes design wise, terran is the most complete race in the game, you can try to deny it but it just makes you look dumb. | ||
zeross
France310 Posts
On September 19 2012 14:49 Asymptote1 wrote: Except....Terran doesn't NEED any other rolls filled...You obviously have very little experience with terran if you honestly think its in rough shape and is full of holes. Protoss is full of holes design wise, terran is the most complete race in the game, you can try to deny it but it just makes you look dumb. and so its allright for terran players to pay for something thats could be done in a regular balance patch ? | ||
Crawdad
614 Posts
If the Widow mine targets an armored unit, have the Widow mine deal 300 damage to the target, while dealing NO splash damage to the surrounding area. If it targets a light unit, have it deal 50 damage to all light units in an area, including the target. If it targets a unit with no armor tag, have it deal the same damage it does now. | ||
Serpico
4285 Posts
On September 19 2012 14:51 zeross wrote: and so its allright for terran players to pay for something thats could be done in a regular balance patch ? I hope you like singleplayer. That's blizzard's plan for you atm it seems. | ||
MoonCricket
222 Posts
Battle Hellions and Widow Mines aside, you shouldn't be asking yourself what new units are you going to get, but what game design changes do you need to make Mech competitive vs Protoss. For Terran, it could be something as simple as removing the energy bar from Thor, adding a Defense Matrix upgrade to the Medivac or adding the +50% health to Viking Assault Mode instead of the Battle Hellion. If we're talking about making Terran end game units more viable vs Zerg end game units, it could be something as simple as reducing Raven build time to 40 seconds, reducing the energy cost of Auto Turrets to 25, increasing Battle Cruiser air to air damage to 8 or replacing the Ghost's Snipe with Irradiate. If we're talking about giving Terrans more options to break Siege Tank lines, then we could add Siege Tank fire onto Point Defense Drone. None of the balance issues for Terrans "require" a new unit, I'd prefer Blizzard balance or re-design the units we have in order to address our metagame woes then add new units that A-move and autocast their way to victory for us. New units should only be added to the game when balancing and redesigning old units isn't a conceivable option, Swarmhosts and Vipers are the best examples of units that were designed to address Zerg metagame perfectly where every other unit I've seen so far appears to be complete shit in comparison (altho' Widow Mines are cool). Adding units just to add units ruins games, we should all just be thankful Blizzard knows what the problems are for SC2, they are trying to address them and they are listening to the Pros for feedback. Beta has a long way to go, and it'll get there. You can't judge the outcome of the final product based on the preliminary patches, and you should be happy they even let you see and participate in the beta instead of just closing it to the public and making you wait. You have a chance to see what's going on and throw in your 2 cents, do it constructively and you may find some one who will listen to you. | ||
Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
On September 19 2012 14:16 delayed reflex wrote: To be honest, I think Terran was the most rounded and varied race in WoL, and so they don't need as much added in HotS to maintain significant variety in possible plays. However, some matchups have a lot less variety in compositions than others - especially late-game TvP. I'm thinking that instead of new units, new upgrades could be utilized to allow for a larger variety of units to be used in a variety of matchups. Here are some things I thought up: Improved Circuitry - Feedback no longer deals damage to Terran mechanical units that use energy - banshee, thor, BC, raven - (or perhaps just deals reduced damage - perhaps 50% or whatever ends up being balanced) though it still drains all energy. This would prevent feedback from insta-countering all Terran late-game units - feedback would still be very useful as it would drain energy, but it won't also instagib ravens/banshees and heavily damage BCs/thors. If this upgrade needs a more general purpose than simply countering one aspect of Protoss play, it could also cause energy to regenerate 10% faster. Modular Turrets - This upgrade would either allow turrets to be salvageable as bunkers are, or allow them to transform and pack up to a mobile mode (effectively making them like spore crawlers). The idea is to give mech some ability to have some sort of fairly inexpensive, repositionable but not highly mobile anti-air, in addition to just the thor. Standardized Assembly - This factory-techlab upgrade (starport required) allows vikings in ground-mode to be built from the factory, and gives vikings vehicle upgrades instead of ship upgrades (or whichever upgrade of the two is higher). This would allow vikings to more easily become part of the mech composition. If implemented, the above Modular Turrets might not be needed. Defensive matrix - Might help BC's avoid getting instagibbed by corrupters and potentially more useful in all matchups when you have smaller numbers of BCs that you need to keep alive, switching to yamato once you have reached critical mass. Also they could implement some small things like making raven autoturrets scale damage and armor with ship upgrades, and perhaps be treated as non-armored units, as currently autoturrets are quite underutilized. In addition, Thor 150mm cannon could probably also use a range increase from 7 to 8. Interesting suggestions, you should post them up on the Blizzard HotS beta forums so they are possibly seen. | ||
MasterCynical
505 Posts
They can make it so that it spawns spider mines for a certain amount of minerals or it just comes with 3 like the vulture 1)this way its more like a widow spider 2)allows mines to be massed much more without taking up build time on the factory 3)further emphasizes microing widow mines and keeping it alive before you decide to actually use the widow mine itself. 4)the old BW 'moving factory' theme from protoss is back even though its on terran now if spider mines can be made in the widow mine or at least part of the vulture is back. | ||
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