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On September 19 2012 16:31 MasterCynical wrote: Maybe have the widow mine spawn spider mines? They can make it so that it spawns spider mines for a certain amount of minerals or it just comes with 3 like the vulture
1)this way its more like a widow spider 2)allows mines to be massed much more without taking up build time on the factory 3)further emphasizes microing widow mines and keeping it alive before you decide to actually use the widow mine itself. 4)the old BW 'moving factory' theme from protoss is back even though its on terran now if spider mines can be made in the widow mine or at least part of the vulture is back. yo dawg
funny idea
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On September 19 2012 13:41 Kinaesthetic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 13:15 Big J wrote:On September 19 2012 09:16 neoghaleon55 wrote:On September 19 2012 06:58 Crawdad wrote:From DB: Carrier and Tempest are staying for sure.
Warhound is gone. There is no top-secret unit waiting in the wings to jump in. It's out.
I cannot promise that something won't happen later (I am not yet able to see into the future) but currently there are no plans for another Terran unit.
Well, that's actually pretty shocking. Wow...simply wow. Terran really got the shaft now. I hope they change their minds. 2 new units, complete overhaul of the reaper, 2buffs to existing units (Raven speed, Yamato canon) I mean, zerg "only" got two new units and a "speed" upgrade for hydras that doesn't even work like a speed upgrade and Protoss "only" got 3 new units. Widow Mine = Useless, worse version of the spider mines laid by Vultures in BW. Reaper = either UP or OP. Its a unit just like the warhound in that it is too good at what it does or, if nerfed, is pretty much useless. Battle Hellion = Just a remade hellion good at combating very specific strategies against P/Z lategame compositions. And those upgrades to existing units.... Its just stale game design. Every single change/addition (with the exception of the practically useless widow mine) is something that could have been put in as an easy patch for WoL. Recycled content and things that could honestly just be implemented right now shouldn't justify being called an expansion Litterally, right now there is nothing in the HOTS Terran arsenal that can justify paying for an expansion that gives us nothing new. But don't you realise that these are just current judgements on balance, and not on whether HotS is worth it for terran.
Whats significant is that you are getting changes (and he didn't even mention the small tank buff from upgrades), 2 units plus tweaks, which is pretty much the same as Zerg. People saying Terran have got shafted seems really weird, they're only saying it cause one of the units introduced hasn't yet found a role (widow mine) due to balance, and because the other one may be improperly placed in the tech tree (BH).
Neither of those things are permanent, and both units have the potential to be game changing for Terran.
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sry but battle hellion isn't really a new unit, the only new unit is the widow mine, nothing else
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On September 19 2012 16:51 Garmer wrote: sry but battle hellion isn't really a new unit, the only new unit is the widow mine, nothing else Its new enough that in completely changes the role of the hellion while in BH form, to me thats almost the same as a new unit, and certainly enough for the purposes of discussing how many changes terran have received in HotS.
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On September 19 2012 16:53 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 16:51 Garmer wrote: sry but battle hellion isn't really a new unit, the only new unit is the widow mine, nothing else Its new enough that in completely changes the role of the hellion while in BH form, to me thats almost the same as a new unit, and certainly enough for the purposes of discussing how many changes terran have received in HotS.
yeah, of course it's a new unit. It's like saying banelings aren't a unit on their own, because they get morphed from zerglings.
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On September 19 2012 16:49 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 13:41 Kinaesthetic wrote:On September 19 2012 13:15 Big J wrote:On September 19 2012 09:16 neoghaleon55 wrote:On September 19 2012 06:58 Crawdad wrote:From DB: Carrier and Tempest are staying for sure.
Warhound is gone. There is no top-secret unit waiting in the wings to jump in. It's out.
I cannot promise that something won't happen later (I am not yet able to see into the future) but currently there are no plans for another Terran unit.
Well, that's actually pretty shocking. Wow...simply wow. Terran really got the shaft now. I hope they change their minds. 2 new units, complete overhaul of the reaper, 2buffs to existing units (Raven speed, Yamato canon) I mean, zerg "only" got two new units and a "speed" upgrade for hydras that doesn't even work like a speed upgrade and Protoss "only" got 3 new units. Widow Mine = Useless, worse version of the spider mines laid by Vultures in BW. Reaper = either UP or OP. Its a unit just like the warhound in that it is too good at what it does or, if nerfed, is pretty much useless. Battle Hellion = Just a remade hellion good at combating very specific strategies against P/Z lategame compositions. And those upgrades to existing units.... Its just stale game design. Every single change/addition (with the exception of the practically useless widow mine) is something that could have been put in as an easy patch for WoL. Recycled content and things that could honestly just be implemented right now shouldn't justify being called an expansion Litterally, right now there is nothing in the HOTS Terran arsenal that can justify paying for an expansion that gives us nothing new. But don't you realise that these are just current judgements on balance, and not on whether HotS is worth if for terran. Whats significant is that you are getting changes (and he didn't even mention the small tank buff from upgrades), 2 units plus tweaks, which is pretty much the same as Zerg. People saying Terran have got shafted seems really weird, they're only saying it cause one of the units introduced hasn't yet found a role (widow mine) due to balance, and because the other one may be improperly placed in the tech tree (BH). Neither of those things are permanent, and both units have the potential to be game changing for Terran.
I don't see how it's weird at all. I've played mostly protoss and it's clear that terran in it's current HotS state just sucks in terms of interesting units and interesting new ways to play. Zerg has two new interesting units plus an ultra and hydra upgrade. Terran has the widow mine and an upgrade for the hellion. So it pretty much isn't the same
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On September 19 2012 17:01 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 16:49 MCDayC wrote:On September 19 2012 13:41 Kinaesthetic wrote:On September 19 2012 13:15 Big J wrote:On September 19 2012 09:16 neoghaleon55 wrote:On September 19 2012 06:58 Crawdad wrote:From DB: Carrier and Tempest are staying for sure.
Warhound is gone. There is no top-secret unit waiting in the wings to jump in. It's out.
I cannot promise that something won't happen later (I am not yet able to see into the future) but currently there are no plans for another Terran unit.
Well, that's actually pretty shocking. Wow...simply wow. Terran really got the shaft now. I hope they change their minds. 2 new units, complete overhaul of the reaper, 2buffs to existing units (Raven speed, Yamato canon) I mean, zerg "only" got two new units and a "speed" upgrade for hydras that doesn't even work like a speed upgrade and Protoss "only" got 3 new units. Widow Mine = Useless, worse version of the spider mines laid by Vultures in BW. Reaper = either UP or OP. Its a unit just like the warhound in that it is too good at what it does or, if nerfed, is pretty much useless. Battle Hellion = Just a remade hellion good at combating very specific strategies against P/Z lategame compositions. And those upgrades to existing units.... Its just stale game design. Every single change/addition (with the exception of the practically useless widow mine) is something that could have been put in as an easy patch for WoL. Recycled content and things that could honestly just be implemented right now shouldn't justify being called an expansion Litterally, right now there is nothing in the HOTS Terran arsenal that can justify paying for an expansion that gives us nothing new. But don't you realise that these are just current judgements on balance, and not on whether HotS is worth if for terran. Whats significant is that you are getting changes (and he didn't even mention the small tank buff from upgrades), 2 units plus tweaks, which is pretty much the same as Zerg. People saying Terran have got shafted seems really weird, they're only saying it cause one of the units introduced hasn't yet found a role (widow mine) due to balance, and because the other one may be improperly placed in the tech tree (BH). Neither of those things are permanent, and both units have the potential to be game changing for Terran. I don't see how it's weird at all. I've played mostly protoss and it's clear that terran in it's current HotS state just sucks in terms of interesting units and interesting new ways to play. Zerg has two new interesting units plus an ultra and hydra upgrade. Terran has the widow mine and an upgrade for the hellion. So it pretty much isn't the same When you say interesting, you mean that the widow mine currently isn't functioning in a way to be impactful on the game? Cause I'd definitely wouldn't agree that the widow mine isn't interesting. I think its the most interesting unit added in the game, maybe tied with the swarmhost. And if your answer is that its too weak to make an impact and therefore be "interesting" then, while I don't disagree with you, can't you see thats just a current assessment of balance, and could easily change within the next day, week, month, by the end of beta, or in the game's lifespan? The widow mine will be useful at some point, Blizzard are gonna make sure of it.
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On September 19 2012 16:59 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 16:53 MCDayC wrote:On September 19 2012 16:51 Garmer wrote: sry but battle hellion isn't really a new unit, the only new unit is the widow mine, nothing else Its new enough that in completely changes the role of the hellion while in BH form, to me thats almost the same as a new unit, and certainly enough for the purposes of discussing how many changes terran have received in HotS. yeah, of course it's a new unit. It's like saying banelings aren't a unit on their own, because they get morphed from zerglings. no lol, you can't compare the two, hellion and battlehellion have also the same kinda of attack
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On September 19 2012 17:06 Garmer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 16:59 Big J wrote:On September 19 2012 16:53 MCDayC wrote:On September 19 2012 16:51 Garmer wrote: sry but battle hellion isn't really a new unit, the only new unit is the widow mine, nothing else Its new enough that in completely changes the role of the hellion while in BH form, to me thats almost the same as a new unit, and certainly enough for the purposes of discussing how many changes terran have received in HotS. yeah, of course it's a new unit. It's like saying banelings aren't a unit on their own, because they get morphed from zerglings. no lol, you can't compare the two, hellion and battlehellion have also the same kinda of attack
No they don't. The battle hellion has more damage and deals it in a cone - the way melee units will engage it. Add to that that it has nearly as much health as a roach. On the other side you have the hellion, fragile, fast, less damage, but deals it in a line with 5range.
sry for the baneling example. I thought your thought process was that it is essentially just an "upgrade" of the hellion. I'd actually go with "it's like saying roaches and hydralisks are the same unit".
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i don't get what zerg and protoss players even try to do in this thread...
"no you have no right to be disappointed!"
yes we have, yes we can, yes we are ~~
the mine needs changes, as it stands now, you only make 2 of them if you expect an early allin, and then never again. i did not understand the need to break siegelines head on in tvt to begin with, and i expect tvz to work in hots, but tvp was the single goal to make mech viable, and if blizzard decides to give up after 2 weeks of hardly trying, then that is quite disappointing.
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On September 19 2012 16:59 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 16:53 MCDayC wrote:On September 19 2012 16:51 Garmer wrote: sry but battle hellion isn't really a new unit, the only new unit is the widow mine, nothing else Its new enough that in completely changes the role of the hellion while in BH form, to me thats almost the same as a new unit, and certainly enough for the purposes of discussing how many changes terran have received in HotS. yeah, of course it's a new unit. It's like saying banelings aren't a unit on their own, because they get morphed from zerglings. No, you really can't compare morphing with transformation. Tanks and Siege Tanks are the same units, but they role is different in different mode. Same as Vikings and Hellions. But, Banelings, Brood Lords and Overseers are completely different units, it is not just an ability to change modes, those units are completely new units, like that they are out from the building.
Whole point of transformations is that unit has more roles, and that can switch between them, so instead of 2 units with different roles, you have 1 unit with both roles. Morphed units are just new units, fresh from Hatchery, they just are being produced differently.
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I thought that the warhound, a factory+tech add-on unit, would allow terran players for a smooth transition to battle cruisers. As for new gameplay terrans can now go reapers, widow mines and battle hellions in the early game.
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I would have liked to have a new mech unit. I don't enjoy bio as much due to being micro intensive.
Battle hellion is a nice feature to the hellion but it's not a new unit.
Just bring back the damn goliath.
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On September 19 2012 17:35 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 17:06 Garmer wrote:On September 19 2012 16:59 Big J wrote:On September 19 2012 16:53 MCDayC wrote:On September 19 2012 16:51 Garmer wrote: sry but battle hellion isn't really a new unit, the only new unit is the widow mine, nothing else Its new enough that in completely changes the role of the hellion while in BH form, to me thats almost the same as a new unit, and certainly enough for the purposes of discussing how many changes terran have received in HotS. yeah, of course it's a new unit. It's like saying banelings aren't a unit on their own, because they get morphed from zerglings. no lol, you can't compare the two, hellion and battlehellion have also the same kinda of attack No they don't. The battle hellion has more damage and deals it in a cone - the way melee units will engage it. Add to that that it has nearly as much health as a roach. On the other side you have the hellion, fragile, fast, less damage, but deals it in a line with 5range. sry for the baneling example. I thought your thought process was that it is essentially just an "upgrade" of the hellion. I'd actually go with "it's like saying roaches and hydralisks are the same unit". More correct would be "It's like saying landed and airbourne Vikings are the same unit".
Which they are.
However I agree that Battle Hellion is all right, even though it's really bleh and uninspired. I don't see how the Terran researchers could have developed something like that and what I really don't get is how it suddenly increases its hitpoints. Do they keep extra plating on the backseats?
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On September 19 2012 18:35 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 16:59 Big J wrote:On September 19 2012 16:53 MCDayC wrote:On September 19 2012 16:51 Garmer wrote: sry but battle hellion isn't really a new unit, the only new unit is the widow mine, nothing else Its new enough that in completely changes the role of the hellion while in BH form, to me thats almost the same as a new unit, and certainly enough for the purposes of discussing how many changes terran have received in HotS. yeah, of course it's a new unit. It's like saying banelings aren't a unit on their own, because they get morphed from zerglings. No, you really can't compare morphing with transformation. Tanks and Siege Tanks are the same units, but they role is different in different mode. Same as Vikings and Hellions. But, Banelings, Brood Lords and Overseers are completely different units, it is not just an ability to change modes, those units are completely new units, like that they are out from the building. Whole point of transformations is that unit has more roles, and that can switch between them, so instead of 2 units with different roles, you have 1 unit with both roles. Morphed units are just new units, fresh from Hatchery, they just are being produced differently.
And? A unit that is given multiple roles is superior to a new unit that has a new roll because you get twice as many functions in one unit and have to produce twice as few units overall to provide the same functionality or you have twice as many units that can perform the same functionality.
Getting a transforming unit is better than getting a new unit, period.
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On September 19 2012 19:29 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 17:35 Big J wrote:On September 19 2012 17:06 Garmer wrote:On September 19 2012 16:59 Big J wrote:On September 19 2012 16:53 MCDayC wrote:On September 19 2012 16:51 Garmer wrote: sry but battle hellion isn't really a new unit, the only new unit is the widow mine, nothing else Its new enough that in completely changes the role of the hellion while in BH form, to me thats almost the same as a new unit, and certainly enough for the purposes of discussing how many changes terran have received in HotS. yeah, of course it's a new unit. It's like saying banelings aren't a unit on their own, because they get morphed from zerglings. no lol, you can't compare the two, hellion and battlehellion have also the same kinda of attack No they don't. The battle hellion has more damage and deals it in a cone - the way melee units will engage it. Add to that that it has nearly as much health as a roach. On the other side you have the hellion, fragile, fast, less damage, but deals it in a line with 5range. sry for the baneling example. I thought your thought process was that it is essentially just an "upgrade" of the hellion. I'd actually go with "it's like saying roaches and hydralisks are the same unit". More correct would be "It's like saying landed and airbourne Vikings are the same unit". Which they are. However I agree that Battle Hellion is all right, even though it's really bleh and uninspired. I don't see how the Terran researchers could have developed something like that and what I really don't get is how it suddenly increases its hitpoints. Do they keep extra plating on the backseats?
well, yeah it's somewhat like the viking example. And then it is like a different unit, because it fullfills a completle different role. Just like the battle hellion has a different role than the hellion.
Also I don't think it's uninspired. I love that ever Terran mech unit gets a slow or stationary mode. Makes it very mechy. I'd hope for something similar for the Thor in LotV.
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On September 19 2012 19:36 MoonCricket wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 18:35 Ramiz1989 wrote:On September 19 2012 16:59 Big J wrote:On September 19 2012 16:53 MCDayC wrote:On September 19 2012 16:51 Garmer wrote: sry but battle hellion isn't really a new unit, the only new unit is the widow mine, nothing else Its new enough that in completely changes the role of the hellion while in BH form, to me thats almost the same as a new unit, and certainly enough for the purposes of discussing how many changes terran have received in HotS. yeah, of course it's a new unit. It's like saying banelings aren't a unit on their own, because they get morphed from zerglings. No, you really can't compare morphing with transformation. Tanks and Siege Tanks are the same units, but they role is different in different mode. Same as Vikings and Hellions. But, Banelings, Brood Lords and Overseers are completely different units, it is not just an ability to change modes, those units are completely new units, like that they are out from the building. Whole point of transformations is that unit has more roles, and that can switch between them, so instead of 2 units with different roles, you have 1 unit with both roles. Morphed units are just new units, fresh from Hatchery, they just are being produced differently. And? A unit that is given multiple roles is superior to a new unit that has a new roll because you get twice as many functions in one unit and have to produce twice as few units overall to provide the same functionality or you have twice as many units that can perform the same functionality. Getting a transforming unit is better than getting a new unit, period. You've completely missed my point. I was just saying that Morphing and Transforming units is completely different thing, and you can't compare those units. I've never said that one is better than the other, and I agree, transforming usually is better because the unit that is transformed didn't lose their first role.
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I'm probably going to stick with WoL. I'm personally not pleased with the new features in game. Some of the things like clan support will be nice, but hopefully those are patched into WoL (fingers crossed XD)
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I hope DB is just trolling when he says they won't add new units for Terran. Maybe instead they add old units and bring the Goliath and Vulture/SM back.
Well, whom am I kidding.
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Ladder Master on WoL :
-Zerg : 35.25 % -Protoss : 35.19 % -Terran : 25.5%
so, how much on HotS ? Terran < 20 % ? < 15 % ? I take the bets !
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