Any other Terrans really displeased with HotS? - Page 14
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johnny123
521 Posts
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Zombo Joe
Canada850 Posts
On September 19 2012 14:49 Asymptote1 wrote: Except....Terran doesn't NEED any other rolls filled...You obviously have very little experience with terran if you honestly think its in rough shape and is full of holes. Protoss is full of holes design wise, terran is the most complete race in the game, you can try to deny it but it just makes you look dumb. I bet you've never played any game that goes to the late game as Terran vs Protoss or Zerg. Its so bad I've seen Platinum Zergs beat Diamond Terrans consistently. | ||
Aristotle7
United States120 Posts
It's like playing WoL versus new Zerg toys. | ||
Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
I'm not saying that Terran is too weak, or that the other race are too strong. No, my problem is that Terran is pretty much the same in HotS. Zerg and Toss both has new units that give them a lot more options. Especially the Viper, MS Core and the Oracle seem to have the potential to change the entire meta-game. And Terran? We get a Hellion with more HP, a Reaper that breaks our mirror match-up and a Mine that seems useless in its current state. That's it. It's just a bad joke. I really get the feel like Blizzard thinks that it's okay to treat Terran players like shit, because they released WoL so Terran favored. It's like they think people are assholes for playing Terran. -"What? Thors work in TvP? No, fuck you! Nerf!" -"Oh, Terrans have problems against late-game Protoss? Yeah, let's give Toss cheaper, faster upgrades." -"Hey, Dustin. TvZ is the historically most balanced match-up right now."-"WHAT?! BUFF THE QUEEN AND THE OV INSTANTLY!!!" -"Hey Dustin. Terran is doing terribly in TvZ." - "What's the least made Terran unit?" - "Raven, I think." - "Yeah, increase its speed slightly. Oh no, wait. MVP is winning against non-names. Don't." And really, about the Warhound. Why the fuck do they now act like holy guys for removing it?! It's not like they are the one who FUCKING MADE IT in the first place. I could go on and on about this... it just makes me sad to see a game, that I love so much, take such a shitty route. It's like an abusive relationship, really. | ||
SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On September 20 2012 06:22 SarcasmMonster wrote: I have a very STRONG feeling that the next patch will come this week with buffs to Terran doesn't need buffs, we need at least some more interesting options for HotS. Really the Raven and BC change was perfect since it would have allowed for a whole new way to approach Sky-Terran. For the same reason you don't see any (sane) Terrans whine about the Warhound being gone. It's not about strength, it's about options. Even if the Battle Hellion would kill Immortals and Ultras in a supply/cost effective way I would still be a boring, shitty unit. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 20 2012 06:22 SarcasmMonster wrote: I have a very STRONG feeling that the next patch will come this week with buffs to I do as well. Blizzard would like people to use the battle hellion and mine. I know their secret plan to make people use them, which is to buff them and make them "Awesome!". Then they tweek the unit until it is "Awesome, yet reasonable". | ||
SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On September 20 2012 06:27 Grapefruit wrote: Terran doesn't need buffs, we need at least some more interesting options for HotS. Really the Raven and BC change was perfect since it would have allowed for a whole new way to approach Sky-Terran. For the same reason you don't see any (sane) Terrans whine about the Warhound being gone. It's not about strength, it's about options. Even if the Battle Hellion would kill Immortals and Ultras in a supply/cost effective way I would still be a boring, shitty unit. To be fair to me, the Raven and BC changes were buffs. Straight up buffs. (Then they took it away ) | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 20 2012 06:27 Grapefruit wrote: Terran doesn't need buffs, we need at least some more interesting options for HotS. Really the Raven and BC change was perfect since it would have allowed for a whole new way to approach Sky-Terran. For the same reason you don't see any (sane) Terrans whine about the Warhound being gone. It's not about strength, it's about options. Even if the Battle Hellion would kill Immortals and Ultras in a supply/cost effective way I would still be a boring, shitty unit. I play protoss and those units make me want to switch to Terran because they sound awesome. A mineral based unit that can be both a front line damage tank and then transform in to a harassing unit. And it works with a reactor and cost only minerals. Sounds great. A mine that can be moved around, provide vision and damage units if they are dumb enough to walk near it. Sounds promising, tell me more. I don't know what people are expecting. Blizzard is not going to give Terran the Omega Thor/BC-tranformer that can one shot colossi and Broodlords and destorys all creep tumors/queens on the map when built. | ||
travdood
United States58 Posts
New form for a WoL unit. Old SC1 ability now a trainable unit that takes supply. Have fun Terran. | ||
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On September 20 2012 06:33 Plansix wrote: I play protoss and those units make me want to switch to Terran because they sound awesome. A mineral based unit that can be both a front line damage tank and then transform in to a harassing unit. And it works with a reactor and cost only minerals. Sounds great. A mine that can be moved around, provide vision and damage units if they are dumb enough to walk near it. Sounds promising, tell me more. I don't know what people are expecting. Blizzard is not going to give Terran the Omega Thor/BC-tranformer that can one shot colossi and Broodlords and destorys all creep tumors/queens on the map when built. Yeah, I feel somehow the same. I play Zerg, and I am very pleased with Swarm Host and Viper, but Widow Mine and Battle Hellion seem great to me. They need a little tweaking(Mine at least), but they sound great. I don't understand people that wants new unit just for the sake of new unit that is "interesting". No, you won't be playing the same Terran from WoL. You will be able to play mech if Blizzard is doing what they have said that they are doing. Even with just Battle Hellions and Mines, you got a lot of new strategies, openings, timing attacks, tactics etc. and that is with just those units, while I am pretty sure that they will add some new unit to the Terran eventually. Also, new unit doesn't have to be something special and mega interesting, it needs to fill the gap, and make some unit compositions viable. In the end, I really don't know what you Terran players want... | ||
RoyMadman
United States18 Posts
If the beta had 2 weeks left and the game was still the same I think this thread would be a little more justified. | ||
Xequecal
United States473 Posts
On September 20 2012 06:13 Grapefruit wrote: Why do so many people (non-Terrans) think that this is a matter of balance? I'm not saying that Terran is too weak, or that the other race are too strong. No, my problem is that Terran is pretty much the same in HotS. Zerg and Toss both has new units that give them a lot more options. Especially the Viper, MS Core and the Oracle seem to have the potential to change the entire meta-game. And Terran? We get a Hellion with more HP, a Reaper that breaks our mirror match-up and a Mine that seems useless in its current state. That's it. It's just a bad joke. I really get the feel like Blizzard thinks that it's okay to treat Terran players like shit, because they released WoL so Terran favored. It's like they think people are assholes for playing Terran. -"What? Thors work in TvP? No, fuck you! Nerf!" -"Oh, Terrans have problems against late-game Protoss? Yeah, let's give Toss cheaper, faster upgrades." -"Hey, Dustin. TvZ is the historically most balanced match-up right now."-"WHAT?! BUFF THE QUEEN AND THE OV INSTANTLY!!!" -"Hey Dustin. Terran is doing terribly in TvZ." - "What's the least made Terran unit?" - "Raven, I think." - "Yeah, increase its speed slightly. Oh no, wait. MVP is winning against non-names. Don't." And really, about the Warhound. Why the fuck do they now act like holy guys for removing it?! It's not like they are the one who FUCKING MADE IT in the first place. I could go on and on about this... it just makes me sad to see a game, that I love so much, take such a shitty route. It's like an abusive relationship, really. I've explained this in other thread before, the problem is very simple: Marines. Because Marines are so unbelievably stupid good, every other Terran unit has to be balanced around them. That means every unit needs to have either terrible stats for its cost, like the Viking, (which is supposed to counter air units but loses to literally anything that can shoot back) or have seriously crippled production that prevents massing the unit early, like Marauders and Banshees. This is the reason Terran has to suffer so many nerfs. The energy-less Thor was very overpowered. Because Thors are so good against Colossi, Marine/Thor is unbeatable when Templar don't counter Thors alongside the Marines. This is why they took the Warhound out. ANY new unit Terran receives on anything but the Barracks can't be good against Stalkers because otherwise Terran can just mass up a bunch of Marines + that unit + all their SCVs and go kill themselves a Protoss no matter what they do. Marines have two weaknesses: Kiting and AoE damage. By 1-base allining you get to hit before AoE damage is out and therefore if you have a unit that prevents your mass of Marines from being kited, Protoss can't do anything. 1/1/1 dominated Protoss for over a year and it took a series of nerfs and buffs to make it defendable, They have to be very wary about creating another build like this. The Warhound was 7 range and crushed Stalkers, there was literally no way for Protoss to ever beat 1-base Marine/Warhound + all SCVs pulled. There was absolutely no way for Blizzard to balance this, as long as the Warhound functioned as a 7-range Stalker counter Protoss was helpless. | ||
Grumbels
Netherlands7028 Posts
- the battle hellion is a new unit, you can build it separately from the hellion and it will have quite big effects on mech gameplay. - the widow mine will eventually reach a good balance point and offers potentially interesting positional gameplay similar to brood war - if other races get new units, that will require you to discover new ways to play with old units and therefore you still have new gameplay. - more uses for the reaper, battle cruiser, raven. - zerg gets two new units, protoss gets three. It's not significantly more or different to terran. If you don't think that's good enough, then okay, but don't turn it into race whine about how zerg has it so much better. Honestly, I could make a new thread called "zerg sucks in HotS" and make it about how battle hellions are too strong vs zerglings and how MsC's recall is too annoying. And people would agree with me and use it as a jumping off point to express generic feelings of discontent. Doesn't mean it's worthwhile discussion. | ||
johnny123
521 Posts
Starcraft to broodwar? huge... Warcraft Reign of chaos to frozen throne?huge... Sc2 wings to hots? lackluster. At this point it should not be called an expansion for terrans, it should be called a patch we have to pay for. | ||
Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On September 20 2012 07:19 Grumbels wrote: - the battle hellion is a new unit, you can build it separately from the hellion and it will have quite big effects on mech gameplay. That doesn't change the fact that it's boring unit. A Science Vessel could have also improved Mech and would have been WAY cooler. On September 20 2012 07:19 Grumbels wrote: - the widow mine will eventually reach a good balance point and offers potentially interesting positional gameplay similar to brood war It can't get similar to BW with a supply cost. How often do you see burrowed Banelings being used for positional gameplay? On September 20 2012 07:19 Grumbels wrote: - if other races get new units, that will require you to discover new ways to play with old units and therefore you still have new gameplay. That sounds like an argument that a big brother would use, to convince his younger brother that the old, lame action figure is just as awesome as the shiny new one. On September 20 2012 07:19 Grumbels wrote: - more uses for the reaper, battle cruiser, raven. Ha.... ha..... very funny. On September 20 2012 07:19 Grumbels wrote: - zerg gets two new units, protoss gets three. It's not significantly more or different to terran. Are you kidding me? The Viper and the SH allow for whole new Zerg styles altogether, while the MC core is amazing for greedy as well as aggressive builds. On September 20 2012 07:19 Grumbels wrote: I could make a new thread called "zerg sucks in HotS" and make it about how battle hellions are too strong vs zerglings and how MsC's recall is too annoying. And people would agree with me and use it as a jumping off point to express generic feelings of discontent. I think a lot of people would agree that Zerg has gotten the best treatment by far in HotS. | ||
TheOGBlitzKrieg
United States346 Posts
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dragonblade369
Canada464 Posts
On September 20 2012 06:13 Grapefruit wrote: Why do so many people (non-Terrans) think that this is a matter of balance? I'm not saying that Terran is too weak, or that the other race are too strong. No, my problem is that Terran is pretty much the same in HotS. Zerg and Toss both has new units that give them a lot more options. Especially the Viper, MS Core and the Oracle seem to have the potential to change the entire meta-game. And Terran? We get a Hellion with more HP, a Reaper that breaks our mirror match-up and a Mine that seems useless in its current state. That's it. It's just a bad joke. I really get the feel like Blizzard thinks that it's okay to treat Terran players like shit, because they released WoL so Terran favored. It's like they think people are assholes for playing Terran. -"What? Thors work in TvP? No, fuck you! Nerf!" -"Oh, Terrans have problems against late-game Protoss? Yeah, let's give Toss cheaper, faster upgrades." -"Hey, Dustin. TvZ is the historically most balanced match-up right now."-"WHAT?! BUFF THE QUEEN AND THE OV INSTANTLY!!!" -"Hey Dustin. Terran is doing terribly in TvZ." - "What's the least made Terran unit?" - "Raven, I think." - "Yeah, increase its speed slightly. Oh no, wait. MVP is winning against non-names. Don't." And really, about the Warhound. Why the fuck do they now act like holy guys for removing it?! It's not like they are the one who FUCKING MADE IT in the first place. I could go on and on about this... it just makes me sad to see a game, that I love so much, take such a shitty route. It's like an abusive relationship, really. This post is totally not biased. It's really constructive and well thought. It has empirical evidence on top of in-game proof. Such statement should be the staple model of how ppl should post! | ||
TheOGBlitzKrieg
United States346 Posts
On September 20 2012 07:46 dragonblade369 wrote: This post is totally not biased. It's really constructive and well thought. It has empirical evidence on top of in-game proof. Such statement should be the staple model of how ppl should post! i know you were being sarcastic, but i honestly unsarcastically agree with your statement | ||
dezi
Germany1536 Posts
I'm really disappointed ... D3 was and is huge disappointment too - i wanted a action role play game not an auction role play game. Then there are all those bad maps ... TLMC was nice but watch the ladderpool - still so much crap in there (and woah ... 2v2+ is a mess). Bnet is also still bad - 1.5 didn't add any decent stuff - just rearranged shit. Whole game still feels lacking to me and now all we seem to get with HotS is dull. Reaper regg? Fine - but they're freaking slow without their up - gl laming Z without speed. | ||
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