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On September 21 2012 04:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 04:18 SarcasmMonster wrote:On September 21 2012 04:13 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2012 03:54 SarcasmMonster wrote:Widow mine is a 160 damage unit that instantly 2-4 shots the strongest, latest tier units in the game. Not to mention you can build them two at a time with a 20 sec build time on each. We don't think it'll be a good idea to have these guys be 1 pop especially for the 200/200 supply cases.
We do agree that the Widow Mine is not at an amazing place right now, but we think fixing the unit itself to be good is a priority than just simply lowering the supply cost to 1.
We have more changes for the Widow Mine this week as well so please check them out, and please note one of our top priorities in the up coming weeks is to have the Widow Mine be a really solid unit. -David KimLooks like Widow Mines are getting a buff but it's not supply decrease. Now I'm curious. Kim makes valid points, since the mines can be reproduced so quickly. Even just three reactored factories, the terran player could make 18 mines a Blizzard-minute. And the unit also requires no actions from the terran player to operate once they are deployed. It makes sense that they don’t want the game be totally focused on mine fields and have 20-30 mines deployed at one time, replacing them as you opponent slowly works through them. We see what problems terran has with removing creep tumors, and those don’t even explode. If they are going to buff the unit in another way, that is totally fine. Making it immune to friendly splash damage wouldn’t be bad at all. Or do more damage to the primary target. Or an armor debuff to all units caught in the blast. I still feel like 2 supply is too much but I'll hold back criticism until I see what the actual buff is. It could be, but I also want eight mines to be more effective than eight marines. Eight marines can’t take out a colossi, but eight mines could without a second thought. A unit like that is very hard to balance and blizzard would likely have to nerf it to much to make it one supply. A 2 supply mine that is awesome is better than an one supply mine that is little more than a speed bump.
i think in a world where widow mines actually take out colosus in a real game then protoss player would deserve to loose. Do colosus lead the army? are they in the front lines? the mines will always blow up on the front lines first.. which is either the zealots / stalkers or archons. Mines trading with zealots is MEH( not bad , but not particularly good for the terran either) . Its basically trading some gas for minerals, And protoss is mainly gas dependant, so it barely makes a difference if you loose a couple of zealots to mine fields.
I think the buff is fine for now. Supply cost still an issue, but willing to ignore that for now. The mine buff will have a much bigger effect in TvT with marine tank play i thinks, each one going off is a a group of marines dead. It looking heavily mech favored for TvT , which isnt that bad, but kinda sad . Maybe the bio-battlehellions can soak up most of the damage. But i think marauders will play an even more pivotal role in clearing out the mine fields first. Any pure marine army gonna be completely raped :D
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On September 21 2012 07:30 johnny123 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 04:35 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2012 04:18 SarcasmMonster wrote:On September 21 2012 04:13 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2012 03:54 SarcasmMonster wrote:Widow mine is a 160 damage unit that instantly 2-4 shots the strongest, latest tier units in the game. Not to mention you can build them two at a time with a 20 sec build time on each. We don't think it'll be a good idea to have these guys be 1 pop especially for the 200/200 supply cases.
We do agree that the Widow Mine is not at an amazing place right now, but we think fixing the unit itself to be good is a priority than just simply lowering the supply cost to 1.
We have more changes for the Widow Mine this week as well so please check them out, and please note one of our top priorities in the up coming weeks is to have the Widow Mine be a really solid unit. -David KimLooks like Widow Mines are getting a buff but it's not supply decrease. Now I'm curious. Kim makes valid points, since the mines can be reproduced so quickly. Even just three reactored factories, the terran player could make 18 mines a Blizzard-minute. And the unit also requires no actions from the terran player to operate once they are deployed. It makes sense that they don’t want the game be totally focused on mine fields and have 20-30 mines deployed at one time, replacing them as you opponent slowly works through them. We see what problems terran has with removing creep tumors, and those don’t even explode. If they are going to buff the unit in another way, that is totally fine. Making it immune to friendly splash damage wouldn’t be bad at all. Or do more damage to the primary target. Or an armor debuff to all units caught in the blast. I still feel like 2 supply is too much but I'll hold back criticism until I see what the actual buff is. It could be, but I also want eight mines to be more effective than eight marines. Eight marines can’t take out a colossi, but eight mines could without a second thought. A unit like that is very hard to balance and blizzard would likely have to nerf it to much to make it one supply. A 2 supply mine that is awesome is better than an one supply mine that is little more than a speed bump. i think in a world where widow mines actually take out colosus in a real game then protoss player would deserve to loose. Do colosus lead the army? are they in the front lines? the mines will always blow up on the front lines first.. which is either the zealots / stalkers or archons. Mines trading with zealots is MEH( not bad , but not particularly good for the terran either) . Its basically trading some gas for minerals, And protoss is mainly gas dependant, so it barely makes a difference if you loose a couple of zealots to mine fields. I think the buff is fine for now. Supply cost still an issue, but willing to ignore that for now. The mine buff will have a much bigger effect in TvT with marine tank play i thinks, each one going off is a a group of marines dead. It looking heavily mech favored for TvT , which isnt that bad, but kinda sad . Maybe the bio-battlehellions can soak up most of the damage. Do you realize that you can kill the Observers with, for example, Vikings, and that you can turn the auto-attack off with the Widow Mines, and just attack Colossi with them? It isn't so hard at all.
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On September 21 2012 07:00 archon256 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 04:48 Ordien wrote: Am i the only one who feels like a buff to the tank would be appropriate. With the addition of the viper, zerg has a better answer to tank heavy play late game. This would allow for a buff to happen which might make tanks more viable in TvP. Then the tank might be able to fulfill the role that the warhound was supposed to have. The tank buff would have to be late game then. Just adding an armory upgrade of some sort wouldn't make it late game either, since Terrans can get there pretty quickly. Maybe just have each ground attack upgrade add a lot more damage to tank shots? It would work, but I don't think Blizzard likes such inconsistencies. I guess you're right. However if such a buff would occur it would make TvP more interesting overall, as terran would have more viable strategies than just MMM w/ ghost and vikings. TBH TvP is getting a little boring to me and id love to see some change in the matchup. And i just feel like the tank would be a good way to make this change
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MorroW just builds missile turrets next to his mines at this point.
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morrow is NOT a top level pro he's barely code B also it still took him 6 games before winning a single match against toss and it was at the cost of toss performing a failed DT cheese rush. as for building turrets next to mines what good does that do? you WANT the mine to kill the unit, turrets generally keep things away and even then stalkers/colossi outrange mines, theyll just kill the turret first before moving their obs to kill the mine. honestly widow mines are stupid because half of them dont even kill anything. Also with the new patch that defines battle hellions as bio...wtf? so basically chargelot/archon will shred that to pieces as well. even with the addition of ghost emp to tank/battle hellion that's not a fair resource trade. youll ALWAYS have to be ahead of toss to win that fight. I FUCKING HATE YOU BLIZZARD. get your shit together and listen to the TERRAN community rather than paying attention ONLY to toss players and nerfing the balls off every thing that is terran.
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I just don't understand the incentive to make most of the Terran units yet. I probably should play a lot more games before making any judgements, but from 8-10 games that's my feeling. New reapers are definitely cool but the rest of the units haven't realy impressed me.
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Looks like Widow Mines have lots of potential after the patch. Still would like it to be 1 supply though.
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I am not a Terran player but I am also underwhelmed by the HotS units. Months ago when they revealed the units I was excited but now they just seem lazy and just remove shit from the game (new nyduses, warhound, replicator...) I mean why tease us with that shit in the first place? Now it just seems more of the same game to me when I thought they really had a chance to make a huge leap in the design of the game.
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On September 21 2012 07:38 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 07:30 johnny123 wrote:On September 21 2012 04:35 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2012 04:18 SarcasmMonster wrote:On September 21 2012 04:13 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2012 03:54 SarcasmMonster wrote:Widow mine is a 160 damage unit that instantly 2-4 shots the strongest, latest tier units in the game. Not to mention you can build them two at a time with a 20 sec build time on each. We don't think it'll be a good idea to have these guys be 1 pop especially for the 200/200 supply cases.
We do agree that the Widow Mine is not at an amazing place right now, but we think fixing the unit itself to be good is a priority than just simply lowering the supply cost to 1.
We have more changes for the Widow Mine this week as well so please check them out, and please note one of our top priorities in the up coming weeks is to have the Widow Mine be a really solid unit. -David KimLooks like Widow Mines are getting a buff but it's not supply decrease. Now I'm curious. Kim makes valid points, since the mines can be reproduced so quickly. Even just three reactored factories, the terran player could make 18 mines a Blizzard-minute. And the unit also requires no actions from the terran player to operate once they are deployed. It makes sense that they don’t want the game be totally focused on mine fields and have 20-30 mines deployed at one time, replacing them as you opponent slowly works through them. We see what problems terran has with removing creep tumors, and those don’t even explode. If they are going to buff the unit in another way, that is totally fine. Making it immune to friendly splash damage wouldn’t be bad at all. Or do more damage to the primary target. Or an armor debuff to all units caught in the blast. I still feel like 2 supply is too much but I'll hold back criticism until I see what the actual buff is. It could be, but I also want eight mines to be more effective than eight marines. Eight marines can’t take out a colossi, but eight mines could without a second thought. A unit like that is very hard to balance and blizzard would likely have to nerf it to much to make it one supply. A 2 supply mine that is awesome is better than an one supply mine that is little more than a speed bump. i think in a world where widow mines actually take out colosus in a real game then protoss player would deserve to loose. Do colosus lead the army? are they in the front lines? the mines will always blow up on the front lines first.. which is either the zealots / stalkers or archons. Mines trading with zealots is MEH( not bad , but not particularly good for the terran either) . Its basically trading some gas for minerals, And protoss is mainly gas dependant, so it barely makes a difference if you loose a couple of zealots to mine fields. I think the buff is fine for now. Supply cost still an issue, but willing to ignore that for now. The mine buff will have a much bigger effect in TvT with marine tank play i thinks, each one going off is a a group of marines dead. It looking heavily mech favored for TvT , which isnt that bad, but kinda sad . Maybe the bio-battlehellions can soak up most of the damage. Do you realize that you can kill the Observers with, for example, Vikings, and that you can turn the auto-attack off with the Widow Mines, and just attack Colossi with them? It isn't so hard at all.
Sounds good...oh wait:
Revelation Caster: Oracle Energy 50 Range: 9 Duration: 45s Radius: 6 Hotkey: R Reveals enemy units within target area. Units reveal cannot cloak and will remain visible while burrowed for 45 seconds.
Blizzard probably though maphack like observers aren't enough and that toss needs their own version of scanner sweep as well. Good luck trying to kill all the detection before you run out of vikings...
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On September 21 2012 23:44 L0thar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 07:38 Ramiz1989 wrote:On September 21 2012 07:30 johnny123 wrote:On September 21 2012 04:35 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2012 04:18 SarcasmMonster wrote:On September 21 2012 04:13 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2012 03:54 SarcasmMonster wrote:Widow mine is a 160 damage unit that instantly 2-4 shots the strongest, latest tier units in the game. Not to mention you can build them two at a time with a 20 sec build time on each. We don't think it'll be a good idea to have these guys be 1 pop especially for the 200/200 supply cases.
We do agree that the Widow Mine is not at an amazing place right now, but we think fixing the unit itself to be good is a priority than just simply lowering the supply cost to 1.
We have more changes for the Widow Mine this week as well so please check them out, and please note one of our top priorities in the up coming weeks is to have the Widow Mine be a really solid unit. -David KimLooks like Widow Mines are getting a buff but it's not supply decrease. Now I'm curious. Kim makes valid points, since the mines can be reproduced so quickly. Even just three reactored factories, the terran player could make 18 mines a Blizzard-minute. And the unit also requires no actions from the terran player to operate once they are deployed. It makes sense that they don’t want the game be totally focused on mine fields and have 20-30 mines deployed at one time, replacing them as you opponent slowly works through them. We see what problems terran has with removing creep tumors, and those don’t even explode. If they are going to buff the unit in another way, that is totally fine. Making it immune to friendly splash damage wouldn’t be bad at all. Or do more damage to the primary target. Or an armor debuff to all units caught in the blast. I still feel like 2 supply is too much but I'll hold back criticism until I see what the actual buff is. It could be, but I also want eight mines to be more effective than eight marines. Eight marines can’t take out a colossi, but eight mines could without a second thought. A unit like that is very hard to balance and blizzard would likely have to nerf it to much to make it one supply. A 2 supply mine that is awesome is better than an one supply mine that is little more than a speed bump. i think in a world where widow mines actually take out colosus in a real game then protoss player would deserve to loose. Do colosus lead the army? are they in the front lines? the mines will always blow up on the front lines first.. which is either the zealots / stalkers or archons. Mines trading with zealots is MEH( not bad , but not particularly good for the terran either) . Its basically trading some gas for minerals, And protoss is mainly gas dependant, so it barely makes a difference if you loose a couple of zealots to mine fields. I think the buff is fine for now. Supply cost still an issue, but willing to ignore that for now. The mine buff will have a much bigger effect in TvT with marine tank play i thinks, each one going off is a a group of marines dead. It looking heavily mech favored for TvT , which isnt that bad, but kinda sad . Maybe the bio-battlehellions can soak up most of the damage. Do you realize that you can kill the Observers with, for example, Vikings, and that you can turn the auto-attack off with the Widow Mines, and just attack Colossi with them? It isn't so hard at all. Sounds good...oh wait: Show nested quote +Revelation Caster: Oracle Energy 50 Range: 9 Duration: 45s Radius: 6 Hotkey: R Reveals enemy units within target area. Units reveal cannot cloak and will remain visible while burrowed for 45 seconds. Blizzard probably though maphack like observers aren't enough and that toss needs their own version of scanner sweep as well. Good luck trying to kill all the detection before you run out of vikings...
Oracle is so risky, one bad move and BAM! the widow mine takes it out.
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On September 21 2012 23:46 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 23:44 L0thar wrote:On September 21 2012 07:38 Ramiz1989 wrote:On September 21 2012 07:30 johnny123 wrote:On September 21 2012 04:35 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2012 04:18 SarcasmMonster wrote:On September 21 2012 04:13 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2012 03:54 SarcasmMonster wrote:Widow mine is a 160 damage unit that instantly 2-4 shots the strongest, latest tier units in the game. Not to mention you can build them two at a time with a 20 sec build time on each. We don't think it'll be a good idea to have these guys be 1 pop especially for the 200/200 supply cases.
We do agree that the Widow Mine is not at an amazing place right now, but we think fixing the unit itself to be good is a priority than just simply lowering the supply cost to 1.
We have more changes for the Widow Mine this week as well so please check them out, and please note one of our top priorities in the up coming weeks is to have the Widow Mine be a really solid unit. -David KimLooks like Widow Mines are getting a buff but it's not supply decrease. Now I'm curious. Kim makes valid points, since the mines can be reproduced so quickly. Even just three reactored factories, the terran player could make 18 mines a Blizzard-minute. And the unit also requires no actions from the terran player to operate once they are deployed. It makes sense that they don’t want the game be totally focused on mine fields and have 20-30 mines deployed at one time, replacing them as you opponent slowly works through them. We see what problems terran has with removing creep tumors, and those don’t even explode. If they are going to buff the unit in another way, that is totally fine. Making it immune to friendly splash damage wouldn’t be bad at all. Or do more damage to the primary target. Or an armor debuff to all units caught in the blast. I still feel like 2 supply is too much but I'll hold back criticism until I see what the actual buff is. It could be, but I also want eight mines to be more effective than eight marines. Eight marines can’t take out a colossi, but eight mines could without a second thought. A unit like that is very hard to balance and blizzard would likely have to nerf it to much to make it one supply. A 2 supply mine that is awesome is better than an one supply mine that is little more than a speed bump. i think in a world where widow mines actually take out colosus in a real game then protoss player would deserve to loose. Do colosus lead the army? are they in the front lines? the mines will always blow up on the front lines first.. which is either the zealots / stalkers or archons. Mines trading with zealots is MEH( not bad , but not particularly good for the terran either) . Its basically trading some gas for minerals, And protoss is mainly gas dependant, so it barely makes a difference if you loose a couple of zealots to mine fields. I think the buff is fine for now. Supply cost still an issue, but willing to ignore that for now. The mine buff will have a much bigger effect in TvT with marine tank play i thinks, each one going off is a a group of marines dead. It looking heavily mech favored for TvT , which isnt that bad, but kinda sad . Maybe the bio-battlehellions can soak up most of the damage. Do you realize that you can kill the Observers with, for example, Vikings, and that you can turn the auto-attack off with the Widow Mines, and just attack Colossi with them? It isn't so hard at all. Sounds good...oh wait: Revelation Caster: Oracle Energy 50 Range: 9 Duration: 45s Radius: 6 Hotkey: R Reveals enemy units within target area. Units reveal cannot cloak and will remain visible while burrowed for 45 seconds. Blizzard probably though maphack like observers aren't enough and that toss needs their own version of scanner sweep as well. Good luck trying to kill all the detection before you run out of vikings... Oracle is so risky, one bad move and BAM! the widow mine takes it out.
Only when you have mines at the exact point where the oracle is flying by. To achieve this you have to be either happy and stupid to put down ~4 mines(per base) für an Oracle when Turrets will do a better job at this
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On September 21 2012 19:59 hiimjimmeh wrote: morrow is NOT a top level pro he's barely code B also it still took him 6 games before winning a single match against toss and it was at the cost of toss performing a failed DT cheese rush. as for building turrets next to mines what good does that do?
I was joking, LOL.
On September 21 2012 19:59 hiimjimmeh wrote: you WANT the mine to kill the unit, turrets generally keep things away and even then stalkers/colossi outrange mines, theyll just kill the turret first before moving their obs to kill the mine. honestly widow mines are stupid because half of them dont even kill anything.
I encourage you to experiment more with the Widow mine or watch more games, because this is far from true.
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I find it hilarious that the only significant changes to terran in HoTS is, in fact, a nerf (for the ghost). lol! Ok there is the battle hellion (which gives like 30 more hp per hellion? fantastic! not...)
It's not that I want Terran to be better than the other races in hots, it's just that I don't see many changes to address the issues terran has with bio play. Mech is already good against zerg and terran, but it is quite frankly boring to watch in many cases.
I reckon if widow mines weren't a unit, but an ability that could be casted by hellions (for a price, of say 50/25, if they were free it would be op), and the damage was nerfed then it would be much better.
I'm also disappointed by the general lack of content in the HoTS expansion. Not regarding single play campaign, the only real changes seem to be a few units and mechanics made easier.
Blizzard aren't making sc2 more interesting with hots.. I've seen many pros streaming the beta, and just don't see anything that I consider to be particularly interesting. Protoss gets more gimicks (with the mothership core; man is that gonna be frustrating to play against), zerg gets some solid good units, and terran stays the same.
It's about time another company made an RTS that is fit for esports, imo.
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On September 22 2012 00:19 Mongoose wrote: I find it hilarious that the only significant changes to terran in HoTS is, in fact, a nerf (for the ghost). lol! Ok there is the battle hellion (which gives like 30 more hp per hellion? fantastic! not...)
It's not that I want Terran to be better than the other races in hots, it's just that I don't see many changes to address the issues terran has with bio play. Mech is already good against zerg and terran, but it is quite frankly boring to watch in many cases.
I reckon if widow mines weren't a unit, but an ability that could be casted by hellions (for a price, of say 50/25, if they were free it would be op), and the damage was nerfed then it would be much better.
I'm also disappointed by the general lack of content in the HoTS expansion. Not regarding single play campaign, the only real changes seem to be a few units and mechanics made easier.
Blizzard aren't making sc2 more interesting with hots.. I've seen many pros streaming the beta, and just don't see anything that I consider to be particularly interesting. Protoss gets more gimicks (with the mothership core; man is that gonna be frustrating to play against), zerg gets some solid good units, and terran stays the same.
It's about time another company made an RTS that is fit for esports, imo.
i cant even consider hots an expansion, its more like a dlc with the amount of new mp content it gives.. it should cost like 15$ max, srsly i dont care about its dumb sp story...
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Widow Mine Splash damage has increased from 35 to 60.
Wow....
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I'm incredibly displeased with HotS as a terran player. I hate going pure bio.
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On September 15 2012 20:55 Wildmoon wrote: I am terran too but I am more toward making the game better not giving cool things to terran. I think terran is the most complete race in SC2 right now. It doesn't really need any groundbreaking change in its gameplay. Some buff and support unit for mech are enough.
tell me what did u smoke plz i wannabe as high as you
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Why doesn't blizzard just make HSM 100 energy but make it so one raven can't have 2 at once. The problem with ravens most terrans have with is it takes too long to get enough of them after scouting his BL/Festor army to actually stop the zerg deathball. If they just made it to 100 energy it wouldn't be as much of a hassle to buy 5 minutes of time to get enough ravens to even try to engage zerg BL/festor armies. And if you made it so 1 raven couldn't have 2 seeker missles then the terran wouldnt be able just to spam them and wipe out armies with total ease.
Really I feel that blizzard needs to understand that it takes soo long to get enough ravens with enough energy to be able to cope with zerg armies. I see countless games were the terran is starts to get ravens after seeing the zergs brood lords and then dies because he's only been able to get around 4 ravens the the zerg is just 1aing into his base and fungaling the terrans units.
So, If they just bascilly made it faster to get ravens up with HSM without it being OP, as a masters terran i would be complety fine with the game as we would finally have a lategame unit that is GOOD.
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On September 22 2012 11:14 dArkko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 20:55 Wildmoon wrote: I am terran too but I am more toward making the game better not giving cool things to terran. I think terran is the most complete race in SC2 right now. It doesn't really need any groundbreaking change in its gameplay. Some buff and support unit for mech are enough. tell me what did u smoke plz i wannabe as high as you hey man let me get some of that stuff too. I still can't understand why people think that terran is the most complete race in sc2 and it's not even close to where it can be 3 factory units don't even cut it in WOL and a bio hellion and a redundant spider mine don't even make up a ground mech army in HOTS.
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So far it's very dissapointing, mech doesn't work TvP and TvZ lategame is still stupid. I don't want to switch races so if bio is still the way to go at the end of the beta I won't buy the game.
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