Don't be so doom and gloom Terrans.
Any other Terrans really displeased with HotS? - Page 18
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Rumpus
United States136 Posts
Don't be so doom and gloom Terrans. | ||
Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On September 22 2012 23:36 Rumpus wrote: I would've preferred to get the horribly designed race mechanics and useless units completely overhauled and removed, respectively. Rather then see a poorly designed unit added and subsequently removed, my end game units fixed, my casters reworked, and another unit just have all the wrong numbers. Don't be so doom and gloom Terrans. its easy to say that when you dont play terran =P for me I'm hyped by the Widow mine, I loved spider mines in BW, and I cant wait to see if they can be used in a similar fashion. Right now 2 supply is just bad. But if they leave it 2 supply then hopefully they will buff it to be useful. I think for that to happen the splash radius needs to increase. Other than that, HoTs looks pretty awful to me. In my experience, Battle hellions dont solve the TVP mech problem, because tanks dont do enough damage to upgraded zealots. Really they are only good against zerglings, which I dont think they intended to really make a counter like that. Its better than it was before, but you still need a supply depot or bunker wall to have it be truly effective late game, which is not good if you have to push out. You are still instantly dead if you get caught with even half your tanks unseiged, its still by no means "working". The main reason I am disappointed though isnt the units, its because terran will continue to play Bio in virtually every matchup, its better in almost every way than mech unless you get a super small map on close positions. TvT will still see some difference in play but thats no different than now, battle hellions are useless against stimmed marines/marauders with medivacs because they dont have the range to be effective or the speed to make up the difference. Im just bummed because virtually every matchup will be played the same as it was in WOL where as protoss and in particular zerg have various options to look at. | ||
Crawdad
614 Posts
On September 23 2012 00:15 Darpa wrote: Other than that, HoTs looks pretty awful to me. In my experience, Battle hellions dont solve the TVP mech problem, because tanks dont do enough damage to upgraded zealots. Really they are only good against zerglings, which I dont think they intended to really make a counter like that. Chargelots melt as soon as they hit BHs. The real problem is Immortals. | ||
Berceno
Spain401 Posts
On September 23 2012 00:17 Crawdad wrote: Chargelots melt as soon as they hit BHs. The real problem is Immortals. yea I have the beta and I am playing mech, you can kill every single unit but inmortals don't die and they will rape your siege line | ||
one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
On September 23 2012 00:29 Berceno wrote: yea I have the beta and I am playing mech, you can kill every single unit but inmortals don't die and they will rape your siege line SC2 mech plays out a bit differently than BW. A typical reaction to mech is for the protoss player to mass up immortals and chargelots. It goes without saying that ghosts with emp does wonders vs this. In my experience you absolutely need ghosts with mech. The transition to ghosts is not always easy to make though. The problem will be when the protoss opens up colossus. As with MMM the terran has to make vikings since any early 3 colossus attack can own you otherwise. As the colossus numbers build up your viking number needs to grow. I usually start making ghosts once I secure 4 bases. Until that point I deal with immortals and archons by adding in 5-7 banshees in the army. I upgrade cloak and put lots of turrets in front of my army. I also put other buildings like depots and a few planetary fortresses to make the area in front op my army full of obstacles and chokes. Before a protoss attack I will spread out the banshees and cloak them. The turrets will most of the time snipe the observers so that they can operate freely. Then I focus fire immortals and archons and tries to direct the siege tank fire to low hp archons and immortals without shields. The beauty is that banshees without damage does full damage to protoss shields since protoss will upgrade armor and weapons first. Buildings in the way + hellions + banshees and vikings will make it so that your tanks get more rounds off. The chokes will also cause the army to clump up even more so that hellion and tank splash is more effective. Even in master league most protosses will burn the zealot charge on a PF or even a turret because they a-move their army with charge on auto-attack. With a careful setup the protoss cant attack you head on. He has to try to catch you off guard with drops , blink etc. If you can get to a point where you have 10 ghosts with your mech army you are golden. It is very rewarding to absolutely stomp protoss ground armies to the ground with mech + blanket emp's. Ghosts can also utilize nukes for harass and to cover flanks and retreat paths. A lot of terrans try mech and then goes *herp derp* my tanks are getting owned by immortals - mech is not viable in TvP! In reality it is a completely different playstyle than MMM, a playstyle that takes as much experience and practice. There are a lot of resources for TvP mech. Check out the thread by Lyyna. Also check out Goody and Avilo. They are the two players that have most experience with mech in the matchup. At least to my knowledge. My play has been very inspired by watching Avilo's stream and studying his replays. On his twitter you can find a ghost mech TvP replay pack. | ||
dreadlordx
United States80 Posts
On September 15 2012 21:07 DemigodcelpH wrote: HotS = Heart of Terran Suffering It's almost satirical that they would finally address the BC and the Raven and go "oops it was a bug". THIS | ||
dreadlordx
United States80 Posts
Terran: 1--upgrade to hellion 2--widow mine 3---Reaper upgrade Zerg: 1---swarm host 2---viper (great new caster, not like infestor was bad enough) 3--burrow charge ultra 4---speed hydras Protoss 1---Mothership core (with some ridiculously good spells) 2---Oracle (i mean hi temps were a powerful caster already, but hey fuck terran right) Phase shields make it retarded how good it will be. And it can see what you are building and block minerals, and i believe cloak your army. 3---Tempest So we are clear, terran got no new casters, our raven is still worthless, our entire tier 2.5---3 is worthless and unusable. So everyone else got these amazing new abilities (recall, blinding cloud, viper pull, phase shields, etc etc) and we still can't use ravens or even get a another caster. So we are stuck with a reaper that is only good at very early game, since there is no more building dmg it is worthless past 6 min, and therefore terran late game still screwed. Battle hellion is a good buff, but still no late game viability, it helps, but fungal, broods, colosus, storm, infested terrans, blinding cloud, vortex, ultras, roaches, stalkers, and tempest make it worthless late game. And the widow mine which is nice, but it is super situational and will not be a long term viable unit. All and all terran is getting screwed yet again and will still be worthless in the late game and will now have to deal with a bunch of new OP spells and abilities?!?!???? Blizzard needs to fix the raven and give us some sort of usefull caster. That way toss and zerg can learn to micro away from a HSM, or god forbid something that allows us to "a-click and cast" like zerg and toss do now. Blizzard is not listening to the community at all and just doing these drastic changes every patch, like where the hell was the alpha testing so that all of these major changes weren't needed and people could actually develop a meta game that real balance could be designed from. | ||
Alexstrasas
302 Posts
OP, i agree with your points. I stopped playing more then half a year ago, i didn't felt like blizzard knew what they were doing regarding the general direction of the game, core problems remained untouched, and the game just started to feel boring and lacking depth. After all this time, i picked up beta, looking forward to restarting playing hardcore again but i quickly got disappointed. Like i already said today in another thread, the development/balancing team clearly lacks imagination and understanding of what are competitive mechanics, so they will sluggishly and stubbornly patch by patch and expansion by expansion just import old BW concepts one by one, due to lack of proper new ones, until the game is a complete port. I dont think it is even worth mentioning these Terran upgrades, wtf were this guys doing for 2 years? Wtf was the deal with the Warhound? Were they just looking for an excuse to make a blunt copy of the juggernaut from warhammer 40k? And i see the Raven, BC and Thor´s Strike Cannon are going to be untouched, i don´t even.... Here is my tip for fellow Terran players, if you don´t want to spend yet another 1-2 years doing marine splits and dodging aoe-shitstorms in all match-ups, just wait for the last expand, and even then wait a couple of patches. When the game will be "complete" it surely will be much more enjoyable and much less frustrating. | ||
JustPlay
United States211 Posts
They also drastically change TvT and generally make you obscenely safe early on against pretty much everything. | ||
stard1n
50 Posts
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JustPlay
United States211 Posts
On September 23 2012 03:05 stard1n wrote: Raven is okay. It's really not that good if your opponents split properly, and it's ridiculously easy to split against HSM compared to splitting vs fungal (or even banelings, which are significantly easier to split vs than fungal). I find it hard to grasp that people would consider the raven useless. Are you stupid? The raven has to literally run in to melee range, the missile then begins flying, and if you move away you gain a lot of time to split on top of the slow lead in time. HSM trades kind of even against brood lords and is great in viking vs mass antiair, but it's lackluster against ground (even unsplit) . It also costs a ton of gas and time, especially including upgrades. PDD being changed to be significantly more effective vs Z by either: -Stopping brood lord projectile so no units spawn (good for mech & bio) or -Stopping fungals as if it were an "instant" projectile (good for bio, mech indifferent) would pretty much make the raven a core unit in the matchup. 100 energy cost for current PDD is steep. Especially when Ravens spawn with 75, turrets cost 50, and HSM costs 125 (out of 200). Changing PDD to 80 would be nice, or introducing a unique mechanic where it costs 80 but will "overcharge" and take 100 if you have it would be neat too. Or the PDD could cost 20, but every projectile it denies saps raven energy until the raven is dry. The raven would have to stay in the PDD radius or the pdd would die. I mean there is a lot of wiggle room for experimenting with how ravens work. Their problem right now is they are one trick ponies, and their one trick is situational at best. You crank one out as emergency detection sometimes, or you crank some out to get HSM to attempt to control the air. Their first two abilities just aren't impressive, although turrets shouldn't be buffed at all. If ghosts or ravens don't receive a vs Z buff of some kind during HotS I will be shocked. Ravens deserve a buff vs everything at this point. When is the last time you saw a raven do work in TvP? Back in the 1-1-1 and 2 base all-in days? In TvT you maybe see it with a viking to stop cloaked banshees. Against zerg you see it as a last resort vs air. HSM is probably fine as-is. PDD could use some love. | ||
Seigifried
United States60 Posts
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dreadlordx
United States80 Posts
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
On September 23 2012 15:58 dreadlordx wrote: Terran has been broken for years, David Kim says we weren't built for the late game on purpose and mission accomplished Dayvie oh come on, every race is designed to be good in 1 stage of the game let s talk about terran midgame just when medivacs pop out | ||
dreadlordx
United States80 Posts
On September 23 2012 16:11 myRZeth wrote: oh come on, every race is designed to be good in 1 stage of the game let s talk about terran midgame just when medivacs pop out Let's talk about it, terran gets own at all points in the game now, we are simply owned the most in the late game. When meds pop out, around 10-11 min, then you just set up static d or a few stalkers or a hi temp or any number of things to negate it, and that btw is all terran has (drops). If our drops are stopped we atuo lose to "a-click and cast" from zerg and toss | ||
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
http://i.imgur.com/YYbE4.png | ||
stard1n
50 Posts
Let's talk about it, terran gets own at all points in the game now, we are simply owned the most in the late game. When meds pop out, around 10-11 min, then you just set up static d or a few stalkers or a hi temp or any number of things to negate it, and that btw is all terran has (drops). If our drops are stopped we atuo lose to "a-click and cast" from zerg and toss Hellions, banshees, tanks, ghosts... All great units, very effectively used by pros today in the biggest tourneys to succession including the GSL. | ||
Soma.bokforlag
Sweden448 Posts
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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On September 23 2012 16:21 Big J wrote: You are both wrong. The game is fairly balanced at all stages of the game. There is absolutly no "after point X" or "at point Y" where only one race can dominate. (those are the latest winrate per gamelength stats I know about, from 13 Jun 2012 02:34:54 GMT - 15 Jul 2012 16:05:41 GMT - Ladder-Balance-Data) http://i.imgur.com/YYbE4.png What you seem to miss is one VERY important factor. This covers all leagues. In other words this covers games where Zergs in ZvT decide to go for a 30+ min Hydra drop with slow Overlords or similar stuff. | ||
mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
You don't want an expansion that treats different players of the game with different levels of attention. Fine, WoL terran was the most fleshed out race. You know who's not going to care? The X% of your customer base who plays Terran. They're going to look back at BW and see that each race got roughly equal # of new units and cool shit. Let's see what happens at the end of the Beta. If things end in a similar state to how they are now, I can't even imagine the clusterfuck that will follow for the 2-3 mo afterwards. | ||
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