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I wish Blizzard would just give Terran a Late Game so they could deal with the Protoss deathball and the Zerg deathball. Its all death balls. I understand that Terran is suppose to be powerful in the early-mid game. But with all the patches and fixes, and Blizzard straight out wanting longer macro games, Terran's early-mid games are disappearing and fast.
This is what Blizzard needs to address for Terran. O.K., so mech doesn't work against Protoss. Make it so bio can stand up to late game Protoss Archons, Colossus, High Templars. That's a lot of splash. And the Ghost with its nerfs is really a joke. It really is.
Its still very early BETA, and Blizzard will be making many more changes. I just hope they address more issues to make the puzzle work instead of working pieces in where they are not suppose to fit.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
I'm switching from toss to Terran for HotS, so... no I was disapointed with the Raven nerf, and I would like something done with the BC, but in general I like Terran for HotS, Widow Mine is awesome (but needs some small buffs), battlehellions seems very useful and pretty damn cool, and if Blizz do go back to the small changes on sky terran then that'll just be the icing on the cake. My personal thoughts on what should happen to terran for HotS: Widow Mine is 1 supply, and gets like a 5 damage boost in terms of splash. Battle Hellion simply becomes unlocked when Armoury is made, all hellions at that point are able to transform. Raven gets its speed buff and maybe the change to HSM cost, though this could be too powerful. BC gets a buff to be 8 damage vs air and ground, imo that would be more interesting then simply making it better vs ground, for various reasons.
And thats it. A couple of small tweaks. Mech is better, Sky Terran is better, Bio is as good as ever (and is encouraged to do that awesome bio into raven style). But those aren't huge things, the fundamentals are there for Terran in HotS, I don't think it's nearly enough for everyone to worry about.
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For a few min when i read about the changes to BC and raven i started to belive that the devs finally had gotten their act together, just to read a few min later that the best changes they have done in ages was "bugs" lol ;D
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rudicing cost of ravens and upgrades and reducing build times of both is what i think they need to do, if they want to make 2HSM per raven they would need to lower the dmg a little but they really should make the changes to cost and built time no matter what, the problem with ravens isn't that they arent effective, it is the huge investment and the timesink that is required to get to that point in my opinion. Sure the broodlord transition is also long and expensive but it doesnt require totally committing to the transition at nearly such an early point, If you really want to make ravens work right now you need a few star ports with tech labs and that is just not somthing terrans can afford in most games, whearas zerg only needs to get to hive and morph 1 greater spire, not nearly as painful or risky for the zerg. If ravens built faster you could make it work with less star ports and you would see a faster return on your investment. Thats if they want to make the raven work well.
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I won't be playing hots beta until terran has a new unit/raven and bc are back to being useable/some big changes are made. Blizzard are taking the piss and it isn't particularly funny, all capped off with this retarded warhound/hellion change
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On September 15 2012 21:07 DemigodcelpH wrote: HotS = Heart of Terran Suffering
It's almost satirical that they would finally address the BC and the Raven and go "oops it was a bug".
Pretty much agree. That was the best Terran change that made lategame more manageable, especially TvZ, and all they have to say on it right now was that it's a bug...
That change alone made it feel like a new unit.
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It feels like zerg and protoss are getting tasty cakes, while I as a terran get some regular bread.
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On September 15 2012 21:35 MoonCricket wrote: Give the Widow Mine time, it just became playable, and I think once pros have played with it over Warhounds they'll find the balancing point for it.
Battle Cruisers still have 100 energy Yamato Cannons and we may see the Battle Cruiser damage buff return, the damage buff and then damage nerf seems like there's some kind of miscommuncication on the design team about where the Battle Cruiser's DPS should be.
I think they want to buff the Raven but they don't know how to buff it appropriately, I'm guessing they are going to reduce the build time to 40 seconds if they want the Raven to see more play because it's the only way it'll see more play without "over powering" Hunter Seeker Missiles.
I hate Battle Hellions, but whatever as long as they hold the line vs. Chargelots and don't fuck up Zergling balance. I'd prefer it if they just gave the 50% HP buff to Viking Assault Mode so you could use them for either chasing down Colossus or holding the line vs Zealots and over building Vikings wasn't as critical of a mistake.
Honestly, I'd just take having Reapers back and Widow Mines playable and call it a day at this point, Reaper play looks awesome right now vs every race.
The widow mine will never be playable with a supply cost. It just will not happen.
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On September 15 2012 23:05 Grumbels wrote: The raven buff was incredibly too strong, please don´t whine about how you are disappointed in the expansion because it doesn´t overpower your race. :o
I'm trusting this is an attempt at creating the same sort of feeling of disappointment as protoss just had, that led to the latest protoss changes. I hope Blizzard sees through it and makes changes based on good game design principles instead of just continuously giving in to the most vocal negative opinions.
No it wasn't too powerful. It was 1.5 weeks into testing, it turns out with everything powerful from the other two races, the raven change actually would have made a lot of sense.
The battle hellion was DEFINITELY no where near "too powerful" and they just nerfed that to smithereens in this last patch with armory prerequisite + an upgrade required...
Looking to be a repeat of Wings of liberty terran balancing so far.
On September 15 2012 23:49 rpgalon wrote: Terran QQing because they can't use mech in TvP without even trying the 2 new mech units... have you guys seen any PvX? is the same shit over and over again.
this is not about what race is OP or not, but denying that Terran is the most diverse and complete race is stupid, the other races have yet to catch up.
by the way, terran is getting the same number of new units as zerg.
Trust me, Terrans are trying. But everytime we try, a new cost is added on to "playing mech." They removed the warhound which is great...but then they randomly nerf the battle hellion...
You can't say "hey guys, we wanna see if mech is viable so eat your heart out and go mech! BTW, WE JUST NERFED ALL YOUR UNITS GLHF"
You see the problem? Every time mech shows signs of life, they shoot mech players in the foot. This battle hellion change was absolutely unnecessary, and on top of this the widow mine is something that literally does shoot Terran players in the foot because of the supply cost.
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On September 16 2012 02:50 avilo wrote: The battle hellion was DEFINITELY no where near "too powerful" and they just nerfed that to smithereens in this last patch with armory prerequisite + an upgrade required...
You can build BHs with just an armory built, you only need the upgrade to transform.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Fast-hellion and Battle-hellion - both can be built without Armory, just from Factory and from Reactor.
Armory just allows to research upgrade at Tech-Lab, that allows to transform between those 2 modes.
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I don't understand how you all continually bitch about the historically most dominant race in SC2.
The game approaches a state of balance finally and you're all complaining because you can't get the easy wins with blanket emps, silly 1/1/1s or a pack of ghosts.
Now the lot of you are whining about the warhound's removal which if you're not blind (re:IEM post) was obviously necessary.
Now what lategame are you looking for? And be fair, it has to make sense in an RTS as offering a trade off and be combatable by the other races. Nixing some health of the thors and strike cannon in exchange for no energy? 1 Yamato max BCs? [Still don't understand why you can't throw some emps on there if you can make the transition] I understand that in the lategame powerunits of the other races are dealing decently with your MMM balls... yes that's finally when those armies /can/ effectively deal with those very mobile, high dps stim balls.
Jesus. It's like you guys have this angst because the race never suffered from being too weak competitively.
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On September 16 2012 03:13 Sabu113 wrote: I don't understand how you all continually bitch about the historically most dominant race in SC2.
The game approaches a state of balance finally and you're all complaining because you can't get the easy wins with blanket emps, silly 1/1/1s or a pack of ghosts.
Now the lot of you are whining about the warhound's removal which if you're not blind (re:IEM post) was obviously necessary.
Now what lategame are you looking for? And be fair, it has to make sense in an RTS as offering a trade off and be combatable by the other races. Nixing some health of the thors and strike cannon in exchange for no energy? 1 Yamato max BCs? [Still don't understand why you can't throw some emps on there if you can make the transition] I understand that in the lategame powerunits of the other races are dealing decently with your MMM balls... yes that's finally when those armies /can/ effectively deal with those very mobile, high dps stim balls.
Jesus. It's like you guys have this angst because the race never suffered from being too weak competitively.
Is this thread really the place for your rage comments? Terran players right now I am sure are feeling like protoss was feeling before the last round of changes.
We are left with a dysfunctional spider mine, the only useful lategame change for TvZ, the seeker missile energy change was hysterically an "accident" and unintentional...
So the only new unit right now viable from Terran is the battle hellion, and that has now been nerfed in the form of armory prerequisite + an upgrade at the tech lab. I think Terrans feel exactly like protoss had just felt to be honest. The funny thing is that raven change alone rounded out Terran lategame so well...it's just a shame right now it was not tested more during a beta...especially considering Terran's lategame in wings of liberty compared to now is almost exactly the same meanwhile Zerg/Protoss are getting things that improve their lategame...
So yes, there are legitimate concerns/complaints from Terran.
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I am more upbeat than ever, them removing the Warhound means they wont nerf other Terran stuff to compensate for that bullshit unit, it would have been horrible if they nerfed the race around that unit.
Instead they may rework the unit or introduce new abilities or even a new unit instead.
I was affraid the game would ship with the Warhound intact and that in the long run would have been bad for the race
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On September 15 2012 21:52 Crawdad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 21:27 Herect wrote: The Widow Mine is hard to use. You can't expect to master it in a few days. It is different form the Spider Mine, you can't spam in all over the map and hope it works. It has to be well placed, well Microed (proper target and please turnoff auto-attack) and often you'lol have to realocate and unburrow to save them.
This, this is something I cannot stress enough. Turn off autocast on the Widow mine, people.
Exactly.
Who burrows banelings with auto unburrow? No one, that's who.
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I feel they neutered Reapers rather than buffed them. Self healing is simply...weird.
In the early game you can't really make use of it because the Reaper needs to be out of combat and wait, which just gives your opponent time to get Marauders/Roaches/Stalkers out. Mid and lategame you can have Medivacs if you need to heal them.
The building attack was removed, so a group of say 8 reapers (400/400) now can't snipe anything other than workers. Their base damage (from what I've read so far) has also been reduced, likely meaning they do not 2-shot lings anymore. Nitro Packs was removed, meaning Stalkers/Speed Roaches can always catch up to them.
The Reaper was fine after the change that killed 5rax Reaper. I'd rather have 40 seconds of build time and Nitro Packs not needing a Factory than this weird self-healing ability.
As for cliff viewing that was mentioned in patch #2...what does it really add? You can just scout with one Reaper ahead, or you can keep one Reaper at the bottom of a cliff and see if its get shot at.
Warhounds were just plain overpowered for their supply. You could get roughly 40, filling up the entire screen, each having more health than a tank. I'd rather see Siege Tanks going 150 minerals, 100 gas, 2 supply than having the Warhound. 40 tanks aren't as overpowered as 40 warhounds would be due to mobility, less health and having to siege up/out.
Widow Mines are not cost effective against anything other than a Warp Prism full of Templar. Instead of compensating for the lack of mobility that Mech has, it just weakens Mech due to reduction in supply and production time. Its production costs need to validate keeping some of them on the map or in your mineral, which currently is not case.
Battle Hellions are the one thing that is a decent improvement to help deal with mass Chargelot, not much more to it than that.
Mech also still lacks Anti-air that is not Thor based, I'd gladly trade the Warhound for the Goliath if it means I could have earlier AA from a Factory. The only other gripe I have is 250mm cannons and Thors still having energy. It is a near useless ability costing way too much energy and just making Feedback cut Thors in half.
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1 week into beta and the whining never ends. you have to laugh about it. save your moaning until the last week before release
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On September 16 2012 03:25 Topdoller wrote: 1 week into beta and the whining never ends. you have to laugh about it. save your moaning until the last week before release I've always believed procrastination is a bad thing. This would be no exception. Did you not read the patch notes? The devs read our feedback and changed units. They read the feedback and REMOVED the warhound.
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