Any other Terrans really displeased with HotS? - Page 5
Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS |
Naphal
Germany2099 Posts
| ||
Serp87
Israel57 Posts
before, I hoped mech would solve those problems but right now I would take anything blizzard would give me, I dont even care anymore that TvP is 1 dimensional repeatitve match that every one is doing the same thing every game. If by the end of the beta terran wouldnt be viable late game , I honstley consider not getting HOTS, because how it is right now , the game is frustrating and not fun . I realy hope someone from blizzard would read this post and will do something about it , after all , they need my money. | ||
FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
I am all hyped for HotS, the sad part is that BC fights will not last longer then 6 seconds now. Sad for the Raven though (remove the speed buff of the missile and keep the 100 energy!) and why did people expected the damage buff of the bc to actually make it through ? You must have forgotten the time, where you went fast bc because nothing on the ground could beat them and then you just won (till idra found out you can kite them with queens on creep). Anti air from the ground never got a buff except the spore, but the bc got faster. So why should the bc suddenly be not overpowered with the old damage. PS: my favorite HotS move against zerg is to have forgotten to lift one supply depot of my wall inviting lings in to do damage. Mines are pretty neat before hitting 200 supply, even then they are okay. But getting more then 4 is really risky. Showing them alone makes the opponent paranoid. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20507 Posts
I do think they need a replacement of some kind for the warhound, indeed I'd imagine they're working on ideas to accomplish this as now. Terran to me feels the best designed, most 'complete' race in WoL, albeit it's fucking hard to play. Tis a tough one | ||
avilo
United States4100 Posts
On September 16 2012 08:46 Grumbels wrote: Of course terran players liked the raven change, they would never have to lose a late game fight again. Zerg players didn't like the change so much on the other hand. Seeker missile with 100 energy is just Snipe 2.0, free damage in late game so that terran can turtle behind planetaries and win any war of attrition. Zerg players have a huge advantage right now in wings of liberty ZvT lategame. Of course Terrans liked the raven change. Of course Zergs dislike it, when you get a free meal for so long and then you're told you have to work for that meal...yeah. | ||
SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On September 16 2012 11:38 avilo wrote: Zerg players have a huge advantage right now in wings of liberty ZvT lategame. Of course Terrans liked the raven change. Of course Zergs dislike it, when you get a free meal for so long and then you're told you have to work for that meal...yeah. Oh comon, it's not a "huge" advantage. | ||
Crawdad
614 Posts
I had an interesting idea, though. Honestly, the Widow mine is just not working because it becomes dead supply unless you literally burrow it under the feet of an advancing army, which goes contrary to its intended role of map coverage. But if you use them as intended, that's two supply deducted from your army and not doing anything for extended periods of time. Now, what if you could easily place the Widow mine where you KNOW your enemy is GOING to be, but were unable to place it where your enemy already IS? My idea is to make it like the Nydus worm... As long as you have vision, you should be able to drop a Widow mine on the field. Then, increase its burrow time (maybe double it) and nerf its health so that it is useless if you try to abuse it (because the enemy will just focus it down before it can burrow). Obviously, it wouldn't make much sense as a Factory unit, so perhaps it would be better suited at the Ghost Academy, a building which already drops "assets" on the map. And because the drop time would presumably be instant, the mines should have a preliminary build time, where Widow mines are "stored" at the Academy (or wherever) once they're built. Good idea? xD | ||
Asymptote1
121 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:00 Bombadil819 wrote: Actual casual players will buy it for the campaign. Just throwing that out there. I bought WoL because I loved RoC/FT, and trusted that Blizzard would have a fun campaign. Agreed, terran players gotta stop complaining, they already got over 1 whole year of complete tournament dominance until Blizzard forced it to change, its time for a BETTER game, which means the other races need their actual options. | ||
Asymptote1
121 Posts
On September 16 2012 11:38 avilo wrote: Zerg players have a huge advantage right now in wings of liberty ZvT lategame. Of course Terrans liked the raven change. Of course Zergs dislike it, when you get a free meal for so long and then you're told you have to work for that meal...yeah. You do know the history of terran in WoL right? Or are you just another sad drama queen who sucks at the game and tries to make up history to work with your "arguements". Incase you need a refresher, terran as a race has had the luxury of the EASIEST metagames in Starcraft 2 history that has won them multiple GSLs etc etc. Even Polt admitted it after he won Super Tournament. So please do everyone a favour and stop crying. | ||
Joner
51 Posts
On September 16 2012 05:06 Endymion wrote: don't feel bad, protoss didn't get anything either.. all T needs is a siege tank buff and you would see a shift in the meta game I've been thinking the same thing for a long time. I wish they would give the tank some much needed love instead of adding something like the warhound to compensate for the its weakness. Battle hellion was much needed though and a very welcomed addition. | ||
GhostOwl
766 Posts
If you think you got the short end of the stick, look at Protoss | ||
MoonCricket
222 Posts
On September 16 2012 02:50 avilo wrote: No it wasn't too powerful. It was 1.5 weeks into testing, it turns out with everything powerful from the other two races, the raven change actually would have made a lot of sense. The battle hellion was DEFINITELY no where near "too powerful" and they just nerfed that to smithereens in this last patch with armory prerequisite + an upgrade required... Looking to be a repeat of Wings of liberty terran balancing so far. Trust me, Terrans are trying. But everytime we try, a new cost is added on to "playing mech." They removed the warhound which is great...but then they randomly nerf the battle hellion... You can't say "hey guys, we wanna see if mech is viable so eat your heart out and go mech! BTW, WE JUST NERFED ALL YOUR UNITS GLHF" You see the problem? Every time mech shows signs of life, they shoot mech players in the foot. This battle hellion change was absolutely unnecessary, and on top of this the widow mine is something that literally does shoot Terran players in the foot because of the supply cost. I play both Terran and Zerg, and I can tell you from both sides of the match up that the Battle Hellions were completely OP, because it was impossible to hold Battle Hellions with Queens, Zerglings and Banelings. By allowing players to freely change from Hellions to Battle Hellions, they gave Terrans a rapid, durable assault unit vs Zerg that forced them to build Roaches or lose, which allowed Terrans to build Marauders, research Stimpack, pull SCVs and just kill you outright. People were too busy playing around with OP Warhounds to notice how OP Battle Hellions were vs Zerg, but 100 mineral Firebats that can be produced 2 at a time from a Reactor and repaired with SCVs are totally bullshit and the Battle Hellion is just another example of a poorly designed, and not a poorly balanced, unit. They didn't nerf every unit, Reapers continue to be buffed and you can now play the Widow Mine from the Factory without an Armory, try playing with the Widow Mine and write constructive feedback for why it costs too much supply and have it reduced to 1. And please don't even try to tell me people wont play the Widow Mine because it costs supply, because it literally 1 shots Mutalisks and Vipers and is a complete pain in the ass for Zerg to play against. Balance isn't an over night issue and Blizzard is taking the right steps to improve the health of the game, the health of the game doesn't necessarily entail adding new units to every race just because you want the "new shiny" that everyone else gets. Buffing old units into playability is almost just as good as adding new units, and if Blizzard can get the Reaper, Ghost, Thor, Widow Mine, Raven and Battle Cruiser into a good place that's probably all they need to. Like, if I had to "balance" Terran right now, Battle Cruiser: Increase Air to Air damage to 8, reduce Yamato Cannon energy to 100 Raven: Increase movement speed to 2.75, reduce build time to 40 seconds. Viking: Vikings receive +50% health in assault mode Thors: Remove energy bar Widow Mines: No longer target air, reduce supply to 1 Ghosts: Remove Snipe, replace with Irradiate, Battle Hellions: Removed Ravens can be produced faster in order to mass them and accumulate energy vs Zerg end game and they can be produced faster in order to deal with Cloaked threats and Creep Tumors cost efficiently without Scans. Vikings become the meat shields of Tanks, giving them dual purpose in TvP as anti-Colossus in the air and anti Zealot on the ground. Thors are now playable in TvP without being hard countered by High Templar. Widow Mines should be decent at controlling space and striking fear into the minds of players everywhere. Ghosts are back as an end game TvZ weapon vs Zerg death balls and Irradiate is the perfect anti deathball spell by design because it forces the splitting of units. There are so many, very minor changes you can do to the current units to make them playable without effecting their immediate power level or the early metagame as a whole. | ||
SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
On September 16 2012 16:09 GhostOwl wrote: This thread is just basically balance whine Terran QQ... If you think you got the short end of the stick, look at Protoss Troll detected. | ||
Ironsights
United States196 Posts
Warhound: A core mech unit that doesn't require "set up" time and isn't just dead when caught not set up. Widow Mines: a beastly little bomb that can wreck almost any non-massive unit Raves: Faster, cheaper missles BattleCruisers: Cheaper Yamato, damage buff Reapers: Combat healing allowing them to be used more than once. All in all it sounded like terran was finally going to get some love after all those nerfs. We get one nudge in teh early game and several in teh late, justwhat we needed. but then... Warhound: gone Ravens: Energy change was a bug BattelCruisers: Ooops, damage nerfed Widowmines: expensive as hell for minimum damage, and TWO SUPPLY /rage Reapers...are actually still good. So, looking at it like this Protoss gets teh carreir AND the tempest plus an oracle that harasses mineral lines, spies, and counters infestors Zerg get the viper to shorten enmy range and pull apart positions as well as the swarm host to make an endless free army AND ultralisks that can burrow charge ffs... And terran gets the reaper back out of the dark abyss it had been banished to, Maybe. I sense nerfs incoming. So OP, yeah, I am very disappointed with HotS | ||
SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
I find that other races have well established unit comps that require limited micro, whereas terran are stuck on tier 1-2,5 units all game long which require more micro simply because they aren't that good as the game goes on. | ||
SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
On September 16 2012 16:55 Ironsights wrote: I was so excited when I first heard about the beta. Warhound: A core mech unit that doesn't require "set up" time and isn't just dead when caught not set up. Widow Mines: a beastly little bomb that can wreck almost any non-massive unit Raves: Faster, cheaper missles BattleCruisers: Cheaper Yamato, damage buff Reapers: Combat healing allowing them to be used more than once. All in all it sounded like terran was finally going to get some love after all those nerfs. We get one nudge in teh early game and several in teh late, justwhat we needed. but then... Warhound: gone Ravens: Energy change was a bug BattelCruisers: Ooops, damage nerfed Widowmines: expensive as hell for minimum damage, and TWO SUPPLY /rage Reapers...are actually still good. So, looking at it like this Protoss gets teh carreir AND the tempest plus an oracle that harasses mineral lines, spies, and counters infestors Zerg get the viper to shorten enmy range and pull apart positions as well as the swarm host to make an endless free army AND ultralisks that can burrow charge ffs... And terran gets the reaper back out of the dark abyss it had been banished to, Maybe. I sense nerfs incoming. So OP, yeah, I am very disappointed with HotS Hahaha well put I am excited about the carrier tho. Finally blizz open their eyes. Now if only blizz would buff raven/BC it would make for some FANTASTIC late game play.... | ||
Crawdad
614 Posts
On September 16 2012 16:34 MoonCricket wrote: Like, if I had to "balance" Terran right now, Viking: Vikings receive +50% health in assault mode Battle Hellions: Removed I assume that you're trying to replace the BH with the ground Viking, in terms of having an answer to Chargelots, but if you remember WoL beta, you'll know that such an extreme buff to Vikings would be easily abused. I don't want a repeat of that, to be honest, but maybe there could be some middle ground? I mean, +25% health (156 health total) would make it a bit more reasonable. Even then, Blizzard clearly wants to stress the BH as Terran's "counter" for Chargelots, and I'm certain that Terran players would complain if they lost ANOTHER "new unit". It's tricky. | ||
Andre
Slovenia3515 Posts
With battle-hellion both of these things are fixed, or at least mech is way better off. I wouldn't even want to see another mech unit, but I would like a buff to the tank again. Perhaps even lower supply so we could see tanklines again, with how HotS works right now you'll have to actually split tanks or else you'll just get destroyed. | ||
MoonCricket
222 Posts
On September 16 2012 16:58 SoniC_eu wrote: I enjoy reading ppl's comments to the Beta (I am suspending judgement until they come further in the development in terms of mech etc). Skyterran I am dissapointed...I don't understand why Raven and BC were nerfed? Terran needs a viable late game unit, and then everything is fine actually. Terran is known to be strong early-mid game, we don't need more shit. It's late game that there are no obvious unit compositions to play around with. I find that other races have well established unit comps that require limited micro, whereas terran are stuck on tier 1-2,5 units all game long which require more micro simply because they aren't that good as the game goes on. There's a reason for that, Marines are better than Zerglings or Zealots at every point in the game, it's like the fundamental design elements of your race to be able to use your Marines from start to finish. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15583 Posts
On September 15 2012 22:43 lschiss16 wrote: As a Protoss player, I am sick of terrains winning about not being able to go mech against toss while they can against Zerg. In Wol, I can go air-toss against Zerg, but that will get decimated against Terran. And even with the recent changes introduced in Hots, it looks like that will stay the same vs. Terran bio because toss only really gains the tempest, which now has an anti-massive role making it useless against bio. Plus, in tvp, there are so many options for t. I've seen viable, bio, bio with tanks, banshee with raven and ghost, and even mech (people who stop whining about not being able to do it and instead work towards making it viable). For toss, there are really only two standards, that are very close to one another: deathball w/colossus, and deathball w/HT, or a combination of both. Sure, you can mess with the ratios of one unit to another, but it rarely ever changes the way you approach engagements. I love the way that terrans have different options that actually changes the way you approach the game, rather than just producing X to counter Y. Here's the thing though. Air-Toss works great against a Meching Terran. If Terran ONLY is able to use Bio against Protoss, then Protoss will never be able to go Air vs Terran. It's in Protoss players best interest to help make Mech a viable option, because when Terrans start using that option it opens up the Stargate as a viable counter measure fostering new dynamics of the match up. | ||
| ||