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Barely viable... It my biggest disappointment so far in HotS, mech is weaker than before in WoL...
I tried my best to win matches with mech, with "mechball" (thor/hellbat/ghost. The use of medic on heelbat is good too) or very positionnal tank mines with raven support, but when the protoss player is not suicidal or stupid he just crunched me over time with A-Move death ball (few archons, many immo, few colossi) or massive air switch.
Its sad because the new raven, mines and hellbat have potential and are fun to play. But it's just too weak. If blizzard dont increase the tank damage, i wont considere playing mech as a viable strategy.
For me in TvP, factory units are only viable as bioball support. Mines and hellbat are actually great with bio, good synergy. Thors or tanks can give extra dps.
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On December 15 2012 14:09 syroz wrote: Barely viable... It my biggest disappointment so far in HotS, mech is weaker than before in WoL...
I tried my best to win matches with mech, with "mechball" (thor/hellbat/ghost. The use of medic on heelbat is good too) or very positionnal tank mines with raven support, but when the protoss player is not suicidal or stupid he just crunched me over time with A-Move death ball (few archons, many immo, few colossi) or massive air switch.
Its sad because the new raven, mines and hellbat have potential and are fun to play. But it's just too weak. If blizzard dont increase the tank damage, i wont considere playing mech as a viable strategy.
But on the other hand, factory units are usefull with a bioball btw. In the same time, bio is easier to play and more cost-effective than in WoL, and hellbat or mines to deal with zealot, and/or some tank or thor in support is very efficient. A mix army is kindda good.
This is a joke. At least give me WoL balance again - while some said mech was impossible at least i made it work. IN my last HOTS game, my Protoss opponent saw mech (gee, i wonder how with the million abilities they have) and started to make voidrays. Yes, I scouted this and made thors with some vikings. O' Wait now thors are raped in under 2 seconds by void rays. What is left for Terran? This upgrade imba shit is new to me..I have yet to even see the +20 tepest. I am so close to quitting this game I thought mech had a chance.
PS: LOL I just tested 3 thors vs 3 void ray on HOTS test map: 3 Vray kill all 3 thors with only taking shield damage using "prismatic alignment."
Edit: FYI High Master T WoL
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Russian Federation367 Posts
Mech is working even at WoL TvP, but it is depends a lot on maps. I mean to play TvP with mech you need map like ohana or shakuras where it is easy to get one half of a map with a lot of tanks/planetaries/turrets and some other support stuff (ghosts,ravens,vikings/banshee,hellions). And this is only one requiment, second is your playstyle - you should defend WHOLE game because your game idea is to harras with hellion/banshee while doing a big macro machine with a big bank and then end the game with a switch into a lot of 3-3 BC's and ghost.
After all in HotS you get some interesting units like battlehellions which help you to take damage more effectively (while your 20 tanks will destroy everything), also you have widow mine which can control some parts of a map, also after last patch you have "one" defense upgrade for air and ground which is great too. But the other side is tempest so now you need to build not only ghost/bc's, but something like ghost/bc/viking + optionally 2-3thor and 1-2raven.
So we get the following result: if map is good for us, if we are ready to defence for 20-25 minutes and if we are good at switching to air we can play and win easily.
p.s. I dont think this is meaning something, but Im was GM at hots before last patch.
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On December 15 2012 19:11 agfoxGnom wrote: Mech is working even at WoL TvP Euhm no one here is debating if it works in WoL, it works. Bio is better, but mech works.
The question however is does it work in HotS ,with all the nerfs it received. (Yes also some boosts, but also quite some significant nerfs).
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I feel that with all the buffs to protoss air, vikings and possibly even BCs need to be buffed. 3 Vikings per Carrier just doesn't seem nearly as good as it should especially with the BW micro now, and now Void Rays and Phoenixes are also buffed.
If they are trying to buff mech through sustain (through tanky hellbats which allow more tank shots) to make mech stronger without buffing the tank (which would make some all-ins too strong and just make battles shorter), i think they could at least make Terran's AA even stronger?
what do you guys think?
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On December 16 2012 14:42 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: I feel that with all the buffs to protoss air, vikings and possibly even BCs need to be buffed. 3 Vikings per Carrier just doesn't seem nearly as good as it should especially with the BW micro now, and now Void Rays and Phoenixes are also buffed.
If they are trying to buff mech through sustain (through tanky hellbats which allow more tank shots) to make mech stronger without buffing the tank (which would make some all-ins too strong and just make battles shorter), i think they could at least make Terran's AA even stronger?
what do you guys think?
Quite obvious that the Thor needs to deal more AA damage, but the problem is that it might become too much. For 6 supply it doesnt deal three times more damage than a Goliath yet and that clearly shows the lack. With Mutalisk regeneration and magic boxing they are going to be even more able to abuse Thors and a buff to the regular AA is necessary as well.
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They should buff BC's by having both attacks(ATS and ATA) deal 10 damage, AND allow it to attack air and ground at the same time.
Also What Blizzard(dustin and david i know you guys are reading this) should do is make Hi-sec auto Tracking also give +1 range to BC' and widow mines along with what it usually does.
Also They should really COMBINE Building armor and Neosteel frame, it doesn't make sense why they aren't just 1 upgrade.
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For how slow and immobile mech is, nothing does enough damage. Getting caught by 2 shots of thors or tanks should be relatively DEVASTATING, instead it's one of those "oops" moments. Takes away the razors edge play from the opponent, and even perfect positioning can be overtaken by good splitting and approach.
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how do you guy deal with archon? I feel archon are insanely tanky considering you need 3 emp for one of them. An immortal shield goes down with just 1 so they drop like flies to tank afterward but archon are much bigger and absorb so many AOE splash? Is the answer just more ghost because if he keep them spread apart it would be pretty troublesome no?
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On December 16 2012 16:17 SheaR619 wrote: how do you guy deal with archon? I feel archon are insanely tanky considering you need 3 emp for one of them. An immortal shield goes down with just 1 so they drop like flies to tank afterward but archon are much bigger and absorb so many AOE splash? Is the answer just more ghost because if he keep them spread apart it would be pretty troublesome no?
thors Destory archons.
or you could try Ravens for SM
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Ah I guess thors is probably the solution then since I was neglecting them. Make senses since they do alot of single target dps thx probably still going to lose xD
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On December 16 2012 16:31 SheaR619 wrote: Ah I guess thors is probably the solution then since I was neglecting them. Make senses since they do alot of single target dps thx probably still going to lose xD
well you could always manually control your tanks to hit big groups of units and/or key units XD
and yeah thors are great VS archons, do some tests you'll see.
thors have better range, higher HP, and higher damage.
Actaully why do people go BC's in TVP late game in WOL instead of thors?
Thors are faster building,cheaper,more ranged, lower tech path, higher damage and they complement bio nicely.
Also you can always EMP your own thors.
In HOTS thors are much better, and did you know HIP can target collosi?
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On December 14 2012 22:13 Lyyna wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 07:55 Hider wrote:On December 14 2012 07:20 Lyyna wrote:On December 14 2012 07:14 Hider wrote:On December 14 2012 06:47 Lyyna wrote:On December 14 2012 05:04 s3rp wrote:On December 14 2012 05:01 ohampatu wrote: Cause ghosts aren't cloaked, and tempests do damage vs bio super super well.
Again, your looking at the game as a>b>c.
Viking/Raven/Ghost beats any combination of Air I can make if you land your emp's. Dont tell me its not possible to land your emps. You have Ravens and Vikings, you auto kill the observer. And i hear cloak works well when there are no observer around.
Were just going in circles because you refuse to thinkoutside the box. go play op bio if you dont want to test the changes or even try anything Mech sucks balls i'm not even having this discussion anybody that argues otherwise has no idea what he's talking about. Well , i have the same reaction... with people like you, who just bash something without even knowing what they're talking about... Did you tried mech? Did you attempted differents compositions/strategies/etc? The interesting thing is that a lot of people who bash mech have no experience with it, or really little one (aka 1 rax FE into 2 gas -insert whine about weakness to allins- into tank/hellion -insert whine about archons/chargelots/immortals- into tank/hellion/viking -insert whine about carriers/tempests- , and dont try anything else like building ghosts, using differents builds, etc, because it could prove they're wrong). Most people saying mech is bad are actually showing in their messages the fact that they have no idea what they're talking about. I especially laugh a lot when people say things like "even a standard protoss army can decimate mech" (well, even in WoL a good mech army can destroy any protoss army cost-effectively) or "mech is slow to prod" (guys, this isn't bio, you aren't supposed to sacrifice your units every minute or so) To all people supporting Mech , i'm going to say the same thing i ended up saying in WoL after a lot of "discussions" with people about my guide : Don't care about haters (because yeah, that's what most people are.. hard to have a constructive discussion about Mech actually..), just play whatever style you enjoy. A lot of high masters/GM (including myself) played mech with success in WoL (and even Sea is playing bw-esque mech with success at the highest lvl) and shown mech is viable for actually... 99,99% of SC2 players. It may not be good for pros (and Sea is showing that may not be true in WoL) but well, it's totally OK for normal people. If you find someone able to give you good arguments, and accepts yours, do not hesitate to argue with him. But just ignore people who keep showing their lack of knowledge about this subject, it's just a loss of time and motivation. tl;dr : Ignore trolls/haters, just enjoy develloping your own way to roll on protoss with heavy metal. As long as its viable for you its ok. There is no point in discussing with people with closed mind.. Lyyna problem with your mech style is that its everything mech isn't suposed to be --> super boring. When you have to turtle for 35 min + do get a super deathball and the toss turtles as wel l--> games = boring. For a mech style to be entertaining for both players and spectators protoss should be given options to harass the terran and if terran deals well with harass he should be able to attack pre 20/25 min mark. During that attack protoss shouldn't be able to engage a siged up army. He should try to find weakness's in the terrans's defense --> win time --> tech up to air. You dont have to turtle. I got a lot of early wins versus protoss, there is big harass abilities, lots of timings etc Turtling is my usual choice but turtling for 35 min isnt that usual for me. my games usually lasts 20 min or so , and i can often win before that , but as im super careful i play the most conservative way, holding harass and preparing for later YOu attack within 20 mins? How many units do you have of each kind? Depends of my build . I have a 1 rax reactor FE that can transition in a marine (8-10)/tank(2)/hellion(4-6) push on 2 factory around 8-9 mins, or in a 1-3-1 push around 12 minutes with 15+ rines, 6 tanks, 2-3 banshees, 1 raven, and a tons of hellions. With my standard macro builds, i can do 2 bases with for example 4 thors, 2 or 3 ghosts, 2 or 3 banshees, 1 Ravens, ~~ 10 marines and 8 hellions , which can be deadly versus too greedy protoss, and still ok versus normal builds The fact i don't push often doesn't mean i can't push. It's just that i prefer to always choose the defensive option. Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 17:54 Dvriel wrote: I checked lot of Lyynas replays and WoL and they are usually 40-50 min games.Many of your enemies even ask you what to do to beat your army...The air switch to carriers was ok in WoL,but in HotS we must face Tempest which outranges everything in this game and its actually impossible to beat,no matter what army you got.Ghost die to obs+tempest and ravens cant got near enough.Thors got no range and even Carrier outranges with the new "leash range".BC not viable because of Tempest 80 Damage to Massive,so what do we have now? Big maps when P got 8 bases and you barelly stay on 4.Wanna see your HotS replays going mech and harassing with hellion or whatever.Just cant kill enough probes early to beat them because later they put lot of cannons... I don't think there is enough 40+ min games to say they "usually" last that long. I finish a lots of games in 20 minutes or less. Well, i didn't harass at all in WoL, and i'll try to get away with this in HOTS too. I'm still refining my HOTS play (i play HOTS since basically 2 weeks, and not in an hardcore way) so i don't have "definitive" counters to everything, but well.. People kept bashing my playstyle in WoL, saying it wouldnt work, and yet i made it work. I don't see why i couldn't do the same in HOTS Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 18:33 link0 wrote:On December 14 2012 18:12 Everlong wrote:On December 14 2012 18:09 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On December 14 2012 17:54 Dvriel wrote: ... in HotS we must face Tempest which outranges everything in this game and its actually impossible to beat,no matter what army you got... PPD blocks tempest shots. Feel free to try it on the unit tester. I couldn't find youtube video. That is true. But once there are Carriers and HT's, your Ravens with PDDs are not so good anymore. At least that is what I suppose, going to try today. Carriers definitely do counter PDD. Each interceptor fires twice and drains PDD immediately. PDD doesn't work vs interceptors in WoL (i tried it again just to be sure)... was this changed in HOTS?
You seem to verify the problem. This isn't really "bw mech". You do timing attacks on 1/2 bases to wi nearly but you can't really win with a 200 food pure medh army late game. TO win late game you need raven + ghosts + orbituals + planetaries which requires a shitton of turtling and creates boring games for the observer.
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On December 16 2012 16:35 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 16:31 SheaR619 wrote: Ah I guess thors is probably the solution then since I was neglecting them. Make senses since they do alot of single target dps thx probably still going to lose xD well you could always manually control your tanks to hit big groups of units and/or key units XD and yeah thors are great VS archons, do some tests you'll see. thors have better range, higher HP, and higher damage. Actaully why do people go BC's in TVP late game in WOL instead of thors? Thors are faster building,cheaper,more ranged, lower tech path, higher damage and they complement bio nicely. Also you can always EMP your own thors. In HOTS thors are much better, and did you know HIP can target collosi? Because BCs has yamato, allowing you to destroy carriers fast, and, with good support (tanks/ravens/ghosts) are basically unkillable once you reach critical mass.
On December 16 2012 16:59 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 22:13 Lyyna wrote:On December 14 2012 07:55 Hider wrote:On December 14 2012 07:20 Lyyna wrote:On December 14 2012 07:14 Hider wrote:On December 14 2012 06:47 Lyyna wrote:On December 14 2012 05:04 s3rp wrote:On December 14 2012 05:01 ohampatu wrote: Cause ghosts aren't cloaked, and tempests do damage vs bio super super well.
Again, your looking at the game as a>b>c.
Viking/Raven/Ghost beats any combination of Air I can make if you land your emp's. Dont tell me its not possible to land your emps. You have Ravens and Vikings, you auto kill the observer. And i hear cloak works well when there are no observer around.
Were just going in circles because you refuse to thinkoutside the box. go play op bio if you dont want to test the changes or even try anything Mech sucks balls i'm not even having this discussion anybody that argues otherwise has no idea what he's talking about. Well , i have the same reaction... with people like you, who just bash something without even knowing what they're talking about... Did you tried mech? Did you attempted differents compositions/strategies/etc? The interesting thing is that a lot of people who bash mech have no experience with it, or really little one (aka 1 rax FE into 2 gas -insert whine about weakness to allins- into tank/hellion -insert whine about archons/chargelots/immortals- into tank/hellion/viking -insert whine about carriers/tempests- , and dont try anything else like building ghosts, using differents builds, etc, because it could prove they're wrong). Most people saying mech is bad are actually showing in their messages the fact that they have no idea what they're talking about. I especially laugh a lot when people say things like "even a standard protoss army can decimate mech" (well, even in WoL a good mech army can destroy any protoss army cost-effectively) or "mech is slow to prod" (guys, this isn't bio, you aren't supposed to sacrifice your units every minute or so) To all people supporting Mech , i'm going to say the same thing i ended up saying in WoL after a lot of "discussions" with people about my guide : Don't care about haters (because yeah, that's what most people are.. hard to have a constructive discussion about Mech actually..), just play whatever style you enjoy. A lot of high masters/GM (including myself) played mech with success in WoL (and even Sea is playing bw-esque mech with success at the highest lvl) and shown mech is viable for actually... 99,99% of SC2 players. It may not be good for pros (and Sea is showing that may not be true in WoL) but well, it's totally OK for normal people. If you find someone able to give you good arguments, and accepts yours, do not hesitate to argue with him. But just ignore people who keep showing their lack of knowledge about this subject, it's just a loss of time and motivation. tl;dr : Ignore trolls/haters, just enjoy develloping your own way to roll on protoss with heavy metal. As long as its viable for you its ok. There is no point in discussing with people with closed mind.. Lyyna problem with your mech style is that its everything mech isn't suposed to be --> super boring. When you have to turtle for 35 min + do get a super deathball and the toss turtles as wel l--> games = boring. For a mech style to be entertaining for both players and spectators protoss should be given options to harass the terran and if terran deals well with harass he should be able to attack pre 20/25 min mark. During that attack protoss shouldn't be able to engage a siged up army. He should try to find weakness's in the terrans's defense --> win time --> tech up to air. You dont have to turtle. I got a lot of early wins versus protoss, there is big harass abilities, lots of timings etc Turtling is my usual choice but turtling for 35 min isnt that usual for me. my games usually lasts 20 min or so , and i can often win before that , but as im super careful i play the most conservative way, holding harass and preparing for later YOu attack within 20 mins? How many units do you have of each kind? Depends of my build . I have a 1 rax reactor FE that can transition in a marine (8-10)/tank(2)/hellion(4-6) push on 2 factory around 8-9 mins, or in a 1-3-1 push around 12 minutes with 15+ rines, 6 tanks, 2-3 banshees, 1 raven, and a tons of hellions. With my standard macro builds, i can do 2 bases with for example 4 thors, 2 or 3 ghosts, 2 or 3 banshees, 1 Ravens, ~~ 10 marines and 8 hellions , which can be deadly versus too greedy protoss, and still ok versus normal builds The fact i don't push often doesn't mean i can't push. It's just that i prefer to always choose the defensive option. On December 14 2012 17:54 Dvriel wrote: I checked lot of Lyynas replays and WoL and they are usually 40-50 min games.Many of your enemies even ask you what to do to beat your army...The air switch to carriers was ok in WoL,but in HotS we must face Tempest which outranges everything in this game and its actually impossible to beat,no matter what army you got.Ghost die to obs+tempest and ravens cant got near enough.Thors got no range and even Carrier outranges with the new "leash range".BC not viable because of Tempest 80 Damage to Massive,so what do we have now? Big maps when P got 8 bases and you barelly stay on 4.Wanna see your HotS replays going mech and harassing with hellion or whatever.Just cant kill enough probes early to beat them because later they put lot of cannons... I don't think there is enough 40+ min games to say they "usually" last that long. I finish a lots of games in 20 minutes or less. Well, i didn't harass at all in WoL, and i'll try to get away with this in HOTS too. I'm still refining my HOTS play (i play HOTS since basically 2 weeks, and not in an hardcore way) so i don't have "definitive" counters to everything, but well.. People kept bashing my playstyle in WoL, saying it wouldnt work, and yet i made it work. I don't see why i couldn't do the same in HOTS On December 14 2012 18:33 link0 wrote:On December 14 2012 18:12 Everlong wrote:On December 14 2012 18:09 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On December 14 2012 17:54 Dvriel wrote: ... in HotS we must face Tempest which outranges everything in this game and its actually impossible to beat,no matter what army you got... PPD blocks tempest shots. Feel free to try it on the unit tester. I couldn't find youtube video. That is true. But once there are Carriers and HT's, your Ravens with PDDs are not so good anymore. At least that is what I suppose, going to try today. Carriers definitely do counter PDD. Each interceptor fires twice and drains PDD immediately. PDD doesn't work vs interceptors in WoL (i tried it again just to be sure)... was this changed in HOTS? You seem to verify the problem. This isn't really "bw mech". You do timing attacks on 1/2 bases to wi nearly but you can't really win with a 200 food pure medh army late game. TO win late game you need raven + ghosts + orbituals + planetaries which requires a shitton of turtling and creates boring games for the observer. Well, my 1-3-1 push is basically tank/hellion with initials marines and a raven/few banshees support. Relatively close to BW tank/vulture composition..
You can win with pure mech Lategame (with the big exception of mass carriers in WOL), adding other stuff doesn't mean it's not possible, the goal is just to make it easier... To use another example, bio playerse uses ghosts in midgame and lategame TvP. Does this mean you absolutely can't win without ghosts mid and lategame? no, just mean it'll be way easier to do it with ghosts...
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On December 16 2012 16:35 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 16:31 SheaR619 wrote: Ah I guess thors is probably the solution then since I was neglecting them. Make senses since they do alot of single target dps thx probably still going to lose xD well you could always manually control your tanks to hit big groups of units and/or key units XD and yeah thors are great VS archons, do some tests you'll see. thors have better range, higher HP, and higher damage. Actaully why do people go BC's in TVP late game in WOL instead of thors? Thors are faster building,cheaper,more ranged, lower tech path, higher damage and they complement bio nicely. Also you can always EMP your own thors. In HOTS thors are much better, and did you know HIP can target collosi?
Because if they go really heavy on robo, it'll kill your thors. But if you make lots of BCs, they'll have to react by making less robo units (or if they don't, then that's an opportunity to punish them and maybe win right there).
Also didn't know about the HIP hitting colossi. Is that a bug...? If not then awesome, it means colossi can't infinitely kite thors, which is another buff :D
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On December 16 2012 18:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 16:35 Zergrusher wrote:On December 16 2012 16:31 SheaR619 wrote: Ah I guess thors is probably the solution then since I was neglecting them. Make senses since they do alot of single target dps thx probably still going to lose xD well you could always manually control your tanks to hit big groups of units and/or key units XD and yeah thors are great VS archons, do some tests you'll see. thors have better range, higher HP, and higher damage. Actaully why do people go BC's in TVP late game in WOL instead of thors? Thors are faster building,cheaper,more ranged, lower tech path, higher damage and they complement bio nicely. Also you can always EMP your own thors. In HOTS thors are much better, and did you know HIP can target collosi? Because if they go really heavy on robo, it'll kill your thors. But if you make lots of BCs, they'll have to react by making less robo units (or if they don't, then that's an opportunity to punish them and maybe win right there). Also didn't know about the HIP hitting colossi. Is that a bug...? If not then awesome, it means colossi can't infinitely kite thors, which is another buff :D
That makes no sense though since the regular thor anti air doesnt hit them. It most likely seem to be a bug imo. It only does like 20 damage to collosus right?
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On December 16 2012 18:49 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 18:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 16 2012 16:35 Zergrusher wrote:On December 16 2012 16:31 SheaR619 wrote: Ah I guess thors is probably the solution then since I was neglecting them. Make senses since they do alot of single target dps thx probably still going to lose xD well you could always manually control your tanks to hit big groups of units and/or key units XD and yeah thors are great VS archons, do some tests you'll see. thors have better range, higher HP, and higher damage. Actaully why do people go BC's in TVP late game in WOL instead of thors? Thors are faster building,cheaper,more ranged, lower tech path, higher damage and they complement bio nicely. Also you can always EMP your own thors. In HOTS thors are much better, and did you know HIP can target collosi? Because if they go really heavy on robo, it'll kill your thors. But if you make lots of BCs, they'll have to react by making less robo units (or if they don't, then that's an opportunity to punish them and maybe win right there). Also didn't know about the HIP hitting colossi. Is that a bug...? If not then awesome, it means colossi can't infinitely kite thors, which is another buff :D That makes no sense though since the regular thor anti air doesnt hit them. It most likely seem to be a bug imo. It only does like 20 damage to collosus right?
Since Colossi are treated as an air unit in every way. So it does make sense. What doesnt make sense is that they didnt get hit y the antilight AA attack before
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On December 16 2012 19:14 Tppz! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 18:49 SheaR619 wrote:On December 16 2012 18:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 16 2012 16:35 Zergrusher wrote:On December 16 2012 16:31 SheaR619 wrote: Ah I guess thors is probably the solution then since I was neglecting them. Make senses since they do alot of single target dps thx probably still going to lose xD well you could always manually control your tanks to hit big groups of units and/or key units XD and yeah thors are great VS archons, do some tests you'll see. thors have better range, higher HP, and higher damage. Actaully why do people go BC's in TVP late game in WOL instead of thors? Thors are faster building,cheaper,more ranged, lower tech path, higher damage and they complement bio nicely. Also you can always EMP your own thors. In HOTS thors are much better, and did you know HIP can target collosi? Because if they go really heavy on robo, it'll kill your thors. But if you make lots of BCs, they'll have to react by making less robo units (or if they don't, then that's an opportunity to punish them and maybe win right there). Also didn't know about the HIP hitting colossi. Is that a bug...? If not then awesome, it means colossi can't infinitely kite thors, which is another buff :D That makes no sense though since the regular thor anti air doesnt hit them. It most likely seem to be a bug imo. It only does like 20 damage to collosus right? Since Colossi are treated as an air unit in every way. So it does make sense. What doesnt make sense is that they didnt get hit y the antilight AA attack before Units with 2 attacks uses whatever deals more damage. and the antilight AA deals no damage compared to the ground one
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I don't consider Thor/Hellion to be truly Mech. For me, Mech is not specifically Mechanical units, but a playstyle.
A playstyle that builds up slowly, creeps across the map, taking expansions and being brutally cost-efficient but immobile. In BW a Siege Tank line basically meant: 'You can't go here'. Running into a Siege Tank line with nearly any army was a death sentence. Supported by Spider Mines, Science Vessels and Goliaths, Mech was all-round solid, the only true weakness being slow and immobile but having enormous damage projection to make up for it. Spider Mines could cover for flank attacks and some Starport units with Vultures could deal decently with harassment.
Tanks were also 150/100/2 and did a whopping 70 damage to many units and Immortals, Void Rays, Phoenixes, Blink and Warp Gate and so on did not exist.
Protoss had a much harder time harassing and bypassing the Mech army and even more difficulty engaging it. But, because Mech was so slow and immobile to get up and running, this was a fair tradeoff.
In SC2, there is far too much mobility and harassment available to make that tradeoff as fair as it was in BW. On top of that, the core unit of a Mech play (Tanks) got a painful nerf in comparison to BW. Their damage was cut in half against a lot of units, their gas cost increased by 25% and their supply increased by 50%.
Whereas 40 supply tanks could do 70*20 = 1400 damage at best, in WoL this dropped to 50*13 = 650 damage, but only against Armored. It drops even further against non-Armored units. BW Tanks did do 75% damage against some units and 50% damage against units like Zerglings, but even then you could get more Tanks for the same supply.
With unit AI much better and far more harassment options available (Blink, Warp-ins, Void Ray/Phoenix) the immobility of Mech hurts more and the tanks can't make up for it anymore.
Even a fully maxed 200/200 3/3 Tank heavy army cannot as easily destroy a Protoss army. Furthermore, due to the Warp-in mechanic, Mech has to win a landslide victory in order to survive the next wave. Whereas warping in 15 Chargelots is nearly instant, Mech is painfully slow to rebuild.
There is no single thing that makes Mech harder in TvP, it's everything put together. Mechanical units can still work decently against Protoss (Thor/Hellion/Ghost with some Viking/Tank support), but you will need excellent scouting and army awareness to prevent Protoss from doing a tech-switch that kills you.
The simple fact that no pros are using true Mech in any of the tournaments is already evidence enough that Bio is simply better, otherwise the pros would have used Mech. We see it on streams here and there and we see some pros use it occiasionally on the ladder but until we start seeing it frequently on tournaments the vast majority will likely stay with Bio.
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Bio is better, still doesn't mean mech is not viable. people don't really get this..
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