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On January 02 2013 19:29 Zombo Joe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 19:04 Crypdos wrote:On January 02 2013 18:43 playa wrote: In WoL, Terran can 1a with any kind of early attack and expect to win the majority versus Toss. In HotS, it's nothing but Terran tears. "Dustin Browder set me up. In WoL, all I had to do was 1/1/1 or proxy rax. Now you're telling me I have to learn to macro? Not all-in every single game? Can you direct me to a tutorial on how to be skilful?"
It's pretty much the most beautiful game I've ever played. It ranks up there with Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time. If you can play WoL, a clown game in comparison that should never be taken seriously, and you don't get HotS, then you're either a Terran player that never tried to play a real game or your ideal game is bl/infestor every game. If that's you, good riddance. You are a pretty funny guy. Cmon, U can't be serious? He must be joking. HotS right now looks really lazy and on top of that the game is virtually the same if you play Terran. Most people have already left so the clan addition is like providing cushioned seats at a movie theater when the current seats are all empty and the movies they are showing are the same as last year. The singleplayer is completely irrelevant because the story is so shit in SC2 nobody cares anymore, buying a game like starcraft for the singleplayer is like buying battlefield for the campaign.
I might not look serious when I say it, but, believe me, that is my sentiment. You know there are numerous people in GM that got there by proxy rax'ing EVERY game, in every mu? That's just an example of what the Terran race is like. If you don't have a lot of skill, the more successful you are, the more you probably all-in. The more all-in'ish your strats are, the higher rank you prob will be.
How many GM's are there that got there with 6 pooling every game (not kid that hacked...)? How many GM's are there that do something like 4 gate all-in every game? If there are any, that's unfortunate. HotS has nerfed 4 gate. Also a great thing, unless you're a caveman that just loves that brute force. Me caveman. Me attack. Good riddance.
It's my opinion, but I also think banshees are a BS unit in WoL. I either have to pretty much blindly make a starport and pray to god you open banshees or else I 100% lose, or I'm supposed to make stalkers, something that can't 1 on 1 a banshee, so you have to make a lot of them, but... stalkers get owned by everything else. So my unit composition ends up being... something that can't trade well against jack shit, yet I have to fend off the all-in. O, I also have to expo fast against the all-in because I need the eco to produce a lot more than them since I can't trade cost efficiently. BS.
Guess what, Toss is a lot better at defending BS now. I guess the makers of HotS tend to agree more with my line of thinking than yours, even if not on specifics. People improve the more they do something. They fixed some things from WoL. Be nostalgic if you want, but the game will be better off. Either adapt or try to lobby Blizzard to make you a game developer. Trying to adapt sounds more feasible to me. No one is stopping you from macro'ing.
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On January 02 2013 19:58 moskonia wrote: but in seriousness SC2 is the BEST game that currently exist
I would say "the less bad".
As a BW fan forever i played a lot WOL and i've been trying hots beta.
To be totally honest : hots is fun to play for zerg and protoss. Totally frustrating for a terran player.
I don't care about scenario and all chat/groups/clan options. I want a fun game to play but the fun comes with balance and imo wol is far from being balanced. let's not talk about hots balance...
So I won't buy the game unless something is done to make it fun. Playing hots is exactly the same as playing wol so don't want to give any € to Blizzard for now.
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First of all, I want to play the campaign. And I seriously hope they won't fuck it up. (Like they pretty much did in WoL) I've played about 250 games in beta now, and I like most of the changes, even though some matchups are still kinda dumb. (especially zvp, which is still revolving around unkillable armies.) I've had at least 1000 hours of fun with WoL, and I still love the game - it may have its flaws, but it's still by far the best RTS game out there.
So I'm definitely going to buy it on day one. (the release of hots also lines up with two weeks of holidays for me, which is perfect.)
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I don't know if you guys have seen Blizzard's other product: Diablo 3 - but I can tell you that SC2: HotS is by far suprior in every way (because that which has sunk to the bottom, can sink no further). The team is different and the goals are different.
The campaign alone is going to be worth the money because even though the story of WoL was flat - the (tactical) missions and the illusion of choice within the campaign were very well done. I consider my game worth it if I play 5 hours for every Euro spent and I spent about 700 hours playing SC2 (60 euro cost).
I expect HotS to provide a refreshed multiplayer and an awesome campaign which I will play through three times (normal for the story and gimmicks, Brutal for the achievement and another runthrough to pick up any achievements I missed).
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On January 02 2013 19:29 Zombo Joe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 19:04 Crypdos wrote:On January 02 2013 18:43 playa wrote: In WoL, Terran can 1a with any kind of early attack and expect to win the majority versus Toss. In HotS, it's nothing but Terran tears. "Dustin Browder set me up. In WoL, all I had to do was 1/1/1 or proxy rax. Now you're telling me I have to learn to macro? Not all-in every single game? Can you direct me to a tutorial on how to be skilful?"
It's pretty much the most beautiful game I've ever played. It ranks up there with Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time. If you can play WoL, a clown game in comparison that should never be taken seriously, and you don't get HotS, then you're either a Terran player that never tried to play a real game or your ideal game is bl/infestor every game. If that's you, good riddance. You are a pretty funny guy. Cmon, U can't be serious? He must be joking. HotS right now looks really lazy and on top of that the game is virtually the same if you play Terran. Most people have already left so the clan addition is like providing cushioned seats at a movie theater when the current seats are all empty and the movies they are showing are the same as last year. The singleplayer is completely irrelevant because the story is so shit in SC2 nobody cares anymore, buying a game like starcraft for the singleplayer is like buying battlefield for the campaign.
Don't speak for everyone. Especially when your statement is just beyond retarded. A lot of people buy the game to play through the campaign. The comparison with Battlfield is really stupid as unlike Battlefield Starcraft always had a fairly entertaiming campaign. The story was not really a strong point, but that's rarely the case in a rts. In SC2 the story was meh but the missions were really fun to play and I can't wait to play through the HoTS campaign (and see if the story is better too). In battlefield the 'campaign' is just tackled on.
On January 02 2013 20:28 Callynn wrote: I don't know if you guys have seen Blizzard's other product: Diablo 3 - but I can tell you that SC2: HotS is by far suprior in every way (because that which has sunk to the bottom, can sink no further). The team is different and the goals are different.
The campaign alone is going to be worth the money because even though the story of WoL was flat - the (tactical) missions and the illusion of choice within the campaign were very well done. I consider my game worth it if I play 5 hours for every Euro spent and I spent about 700 hours playing SC2 (60 euro cost).
I expect HotS to provide a refreshed multiplayer and an awesome campaign which I will play through three times (normal for the story and gimmicks, Brutal for the achievement and another runthrough to pick up any achievements I missed).
Sunk to the bottom? How so. Despite one of Blizzard's weaker games it's still relatively good to other titles in the genre.
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On January 02 2013 19:53 Lunareste wrote: I think it's definitely going to be worth it.
At the VERY least, it will be better than WOL was simply by virtue of having all the same units. With newer units that add options to each race, updates to old units that will create better variety, new playstyles being viable, multi-pronged harass being stronger than ever, and all around just having more small things to do that can potentially impact the game, it looks to me like it's going to be a much better game than WOL is.
swarm hosts is honestly the most boring unit I have ever played against. And unfortunately I think its pretty unlikely it will be fixed, as blizzard likes it.
Anyway, Hots is not worth buying as a terran player. The only realy thing you get is speed medis and mines in tvz. If your aleady bored with WOL its unlikely that hots will make any difference.
Also reapers makes tvt fucking b oring early game.
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On January 02 2013 19:11 Shox85 wrote: I think its worth it, even the beta is way more fun in my opinion. My only hope is, that they get Mech working in TvP and get rid of the Reaperwars in TvT.
Mech working? Like mass thors right?
It's highly unlikely that tanks will be viable tvp according to statements made by the incompetent Dustin Browder.
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There are major problems with balance and design. But still I'm going to buy it.
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Are you happy with the direction that HotS is going in No,. TvT is worse than in wol imo,now its total cheese war with reapers/mines/hellbat TvP is not hard but boring since its basically the same as wol TvZ errrrrrrrr lol
Are you buying HotS? I already did so...
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HotS is definitely more fun to play than WoL because of the new units/upgrades that introduce some new variety to the game. I'd say it's worth it, given the amount of time you'll probably invest into it for "only" 30$.
However, many of the core design problems haven't really been addressed which is why I fear that HotS will end up in a state similar to WoL in a couple of months: noob allins + deathball a-click. Right now a lot of people are experimenting with the new units. Once the viable strategies have emerged, there might be a significantly smaller amount of variety in the game than what you see in the beta right now.
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The singleplayer is completely irrelevant because the story is so shit in SC2 nobody cares anymore, buying a game like starcraft for the singleplayer is like buying battlefield for the campaign.
^ So true.
I'm not getting HoTS because I don't think I have learn enough from WoL and HoTS don't look any different. I mostly will just wait till LoTV come out.
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wtf whiners and doubters wtf comeon lol wtf????
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i really enjoy playing the beta so i'll buy it fur sure
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I'm buying it to play the campaign. 40 euro for an awesome single player is good enough for me.
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I'll probably get it day one, my thoughts on the matchups (Terran)
TvP
If mech is not viable in TvP by the time HotS ships then I will not play... like at all, this is the one thing that I'm hinging the success or failure of HotS. If mech is viable TvP then I will be extremely happy, if not, I will never play the damn game. Mech as of right now is not viable, there needs to be changes for that to happen. I don't give any shits about anything regarding bio, I'm so fucking done with bio.
TvZ
I think TvZ is going to be pretty cool in HotS, mech is going to be very interesting with mine fields. BL/Corrupter/Infestor is even more powerful than ever what with the infestor buffs and Ravens lack of splash... really silly changes there but I'm confident the raven and infestor will be getting a lot more attention before beta is done. I think either Bio/Mech as in MMM, Tanks, mines and hellbats is going to be pretty cool against Ultra/Viper/Ling compostions.
TvT
Mech is stronger, Tank/Mine/hellbat against bio feels like how TvP mech should feel. Aside from the sillyness of reapers TvT probably won't change that much considering blizzard is in the business of keep terran changes dull in comparison to the other races.
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On January 02 2013 18:43 playa wrote: In WoL, Terran can 1a with any kind of early attack and expect to win the majority versus Toss. In HotS, it's nothing but Terran tears. "Dustin Browder set me up. In WoL, all I had to do was 1/1/1 or proxy rax. Now you're telling me I have to learn to macro? Not all-in every single game? Can you direct me to a tutorial on how to be skilful?"
It's pretty much the most beautiful game I've ever played. It ranks up there with Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time. If you can play WoL, a clown game in comparison that should never be taken seriously, and you don't get HotS, then you're either a Terran player that never tried to play a real game or your ideal game is bl/infestor every game. If that's you, good riddance. Since when did terran players 1a with any kind of early attack? Even all ins required stupid micro to work, ESPECIALLY the 1/1/1. I don't really see where your aggression comes from for terran players (unless you are one of those bronze guys that thinks stim is op).
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Yes I will buy it on release. I would buy it for the singleplayer alone.
Hots is fun so far. Im switching from Z to T so I can´t really say if T feels new or cool in Hots. But to be honest I doubt it cause from all the new units T gets, the medivac might be the most exciting
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With a community like that Starcraft really doesn't need haters... Constructive criticism is good, brainless bashing isn't.
The game is definitely going in the right direction, it just requires fine tuning at this point. Some things (reapers, mines...) just don't work well but they will be fixed. The new units add a ton of flexibility and stability to Zerg and Protoss, and a lot of potential for aggression and harassment. As an aggressive Zerg who's not a big fan of the deathball it's like they made the game for me.
The game is actually so much better than WoL, I just can't play that game anymore (despite the obvious problems that will be fixed by release - not to mention the ridiculous lag). And then you have the improved matchmaking, which will make a huge difference to me... I'm actually really happy with HotS so far.
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I seriously doubt anyone who likes the game enough to find the community website and post in it is not gonna buy the game's expantion. Heck, I haven't played in a while and will still buy it, even if it's just too see how the single player story goes down.
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On January 02 2013 20:07 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 19:29 Zombo Joe wrote:On January 02 2013 19:04 Crypdos wrote:On January 02 2013 18:43 playa wrote: In WoL, Terran can 1a with any kind of early attack and expect to win the majority versus Toss. In HotS, it's nothing but Terran tears. "Dustin Browder set me up. In WoL, all I had to do was 1/1/1 or proxy rax. Now you're telling me I have to learn to macro? Not all-in every single game? Can you direct me to a tutorial on how to be skilful?"
It's pretty much the most beautiful game I've ever played. It ranks up there with Goldeneye and Ocarina of Time. If you can play WoL, a clown game in comparison that should never be taken seriously, and you don't get HotS, then you're either a Terran player that never tried to play a real game or your ideal game is bl/infestor every game. If that's you, good riddance. You are a pretty funny guy. Cmon, U can't be serious? He must be joking. HotS right now looks really lazy and on top of that the game is virtually the same if you play Terran. Most people have already left so the clan addition is like providing cushioned seats at a movie theater when the current seats are all empty and the movies they are showing are the same as last year. The singleplayer is completely irrelevant because the story is so shit in SC2 nobody cares anymore, buying a game like starcraft for the singleplayer is like buying battlefield for the campaign. I might not look serious when I say it, but, believe me, that is my sentiment. You know there are numerous people in GM that got there by proxy rax'ing EVERY game, in every mu? That's just an example of what the Terran race is like. If you don't have a lot of skill, the more successful you are, the more you probably all-in. The more all-in'ish your strats are, the higher rank you prob will be. How many GM's are there that got there with 6 pooling every game (not kid that hacked...)? How many GM's are there that do something like 4 gate all-in every game? If there are any, that's unfortunate. HotS has nerfed 4 gate. Also a great thing, unless you're a caveman that just loves that brute force. Me caveman. Me attack. Good riddance. It's my opinion, but I also think banshees are a BS unit in WoL. I either have to pretty much blindly make a starport and pray to god you open banshees or else I 100% lose, or I'm supposed to make stalkers, something that can't 1 on 1 a banshee, so you have to make a lot of them, but... stalkers get owned by everything else. So my unit composition ends up being... something that can't trade well against jack shit, yet I have to fend off the all-in. O, I also have to expo fast against the all-in because I need the eco to produce a lot more than them since I can't trade cost efficiently. BS. Guess what, Toss is a lot better at defending BS now. I guess the makers of HotS tend to agree more with my line of thinking than yours, even if not on specifics. People improve the more they do something. They fixed some things from WoL. Be nostalgic if you want, but the game will be better off. Either adapt or try to lobby Blizzard to make you a game developer. Trying to adapt sounds more feasible to me. No one is stopping you from macro'ing.
Not sure if trolling or actually serious, but i'll reply anyway. It seems you're having alot of problems playing against early pressure. If you already scouted no gas, no rax, you can already assume 2 things from a terran, proxy rax or raxless CC. A CC first is easy to scout, since around 16-18 supply, you should already see a CC building, if not, why are a proxy is most likely coming. If you're really that keen on expanding, why not send a second probe to scout for likely proxy spots? As you mentioned adapting is a feasible thing to do. Protoss in general should rival terran in terms of economy with the same number of bases. So why would you blindly expand and make probes when you know your opponent is proxying or going all in? You're just refusing to adapt in that situation and that loss is caused by overly greedy play; ie. no investment in actual army.
As for banshees, the first banshee arrives at 7:20 (give or take) at your base. You should, with any fast nexus build have more than enough stalkers (4-5) to deal with the first banshee and '1v1' should never even happen unless for some reason, you went for a 3 nexus opening? If you're having problems against 111, i'm sure you know fast (2base) colossus is a good response to it. Learn the build to effectively counter it. Try liquidpedia or youtube for reference.
With Hots, Protoss have good early defensive capabilities which i feel is better suited against Zerg all ins. The recall is very useful in helping protoss put pressure against 3rd expos with little loss and lessen the punishment for mis-positioning against painful speedling flanks. Terran, i feel, is quite similar to WoL, but the changes are great to a race that feels very versatile; although they possess a somewhat fragile late game. As for Z, the buffs basically reinvented the Z core away and shift it towards hydras and ultras, which feel superior and can fight on par with its P and T counterparts. This expansion doesn't add much, but it gives more variety which is why i'll buy it on the first day. With Hots, randoming as Protoss feels more empowering vs zerg, because MSC is adding alot of good dynamics in that matchup.
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