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Since StarCraft II will feature a complete replay log of everything happening on the battlefield it wouldn't be anything but spectacular if Blizzard made some deal with YouTube.
The idea is making replays of StarCraft II matches available on the internet as in much faster and much more powerful way.
*YouTube is quite advanced as in showing statistics of videos and thus this system could simply retrieve data from the replay log to display current statistics in the match.
*Since it is the biggest online streaming server I wouldn't be surprised if this could considerably widen up the e-sport frontier around the world as it makes it quite damn well accessible.
*Considering that these replay files are relatively quite low file-size-wise I would presume that this shouldn't be a problem. No longer do players have to upload hundreds of megabytes but instead just a couple of megabytes thus saving a lot of time and effort. Save, Upload, Done. PS: No poor quality videos^^
*As for observer mode. In my opinion basically you'll watch the match as if you were an observer ingame. Basically it'll load what you want to watch and since it isn't exactly just a video it won't require much resources neither to stream it all. Think about it as a Flash based game where you're a powerless observer.
*EDIT: Again, the idea is not to use any client at all. The idea is that everything will be online driven and accessible from anywhere on any device you'd like. And even be watchable from a TV connected to a console which can access the internet. What about watching a match in HD on your TV screen? ._.
What do you guys think about the idea? Sorry if it has been mentioned before.
Poll: Upload StarCraft II Replays to YouTube? (Vote): YES! (Vote): Maybe. (Vote): No.
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well... would it be like first-person? if theres no obs how are they gonna know what part of the map to watch
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Nooooooooooo, do not work with Google!
They will have freaking everything.
But the concept is good, however Battle.net will have some kind of system I suppose.
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Meh, I didn't think that far.
In my opinion basically you'll watch the match as if you were an observer ingame. Basically it'll load what you want to watch and since it isn't exactly just a video it won't require much resources neither to stream it all.
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Lol obviously it would be cool, but whats up with creating concepts like this when there's zero chance of this happening?
I mean, it'd be cool if we could like, you know, get all StarCraft players together and form a new country!!! call it Aiur and lets get free hookers and blow there for everyone!!!!!! YEAH
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On December 31 2009 00:57 Puosu wrote: Lol obviously it would be cool, but whats up with creating concepts like this when there's zero chance of this happening?
I mean, it'd be cool if we could like, you know, get all StarCraft players together and form a new country!!! call it Aiur and lets get free hookers and blow there for everyone!!!!!! YEAH
This is only an idea. It doesn't have to be realized.
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I don't think it would work. If it could it would be cool. The only way it would work is a first person view type thing - like they had in wc3 where the camera would follow the units the player had selected. Last I heard they were going to include something like that for SC2 replays but better. The thing is though, when watching a replay it is either good to have it a VOD from an observer looking at key things or have control yourself.
Edit:
On December 31 2009 00:55 redmarine wrote: Meh, I didn't think that far.
In my opinion basically you'll watch the match as if you were an observer ingame. Basically it'll load what you want to watch and since it isn't exactly just a video it won't require much resources neither to stream it all.
I doubt this would work. At this point you'd be just as well off using a replay distributing web site where you can download the replay and watch it normally.
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On December 31 2009 01:00 789 wrote:I don't think it would work. If it could it would be cool. The only way it would work is a first person view type thing - like they had in wc3 where the camera would follow the units the player had selected. Last I heard they were going to include something like that for SC2 replays but better. The thing is though, when watching a replay it is either good to have it a VOD from an observer looking at key things or have control yourself. Edit: Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 00:55 redmarine wrote: Meh, I didn't think that far.
In my opinion basically you'll watch the match as if you were an observer ingame. Basically it'll load what you want to watch and since it isn't exactly just a video it won't require much resources neither to stream it all. I doubt this would work. At this point you'd be just as well off using a replay distributing web site where you can download the replay and watch it normally.
Well, the idea is to make these matches watchable without a client installed. To be honest, I could see this work if it only loaded things once you actually watch it and considering that the internet connectivity and speed is improving by the day I wouldn't be surprised if it actually worked out.
EDIT: Also, browsers such as Firefox are equipped with the 3d web features. This could become quite handy for this.
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More than likely to watch a SC replay on a web page you would have to have some sort of web app that included the SC2 engine or at least a good part of it. That's the way replays have worked before - and I assume it is the same in SC2. You aren't watching a recording, but the engine interpreting the data and building the things you see from scratch. That is why replay files are so small and also why you can't watch them without the game.
At this point it would take quite a bit of work by Blizzard and Youtube for it to work. Blizzard would be better off making their own site for it. Still it would be much better served as downloadable with the possibility of Blizzard making a downloadable replay viewing program. I doubt Blizzard would bother though.
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The idea has nothing to do with Youtube. What the op wants basically requires developing a Flash replay viewing client which uses the Starcraft 2 engine. If you're going that far, you might as well just watch the replay with your own SC2 installation.
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That's pretty much what I've been saying. I'm just not very good with words lol.
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i think it would make sense to auto-archive / post replays to www.battle.net though, with a player option to disable. It would also be nice to double click a replay file in windows and have starcraft 2 launch and auto-run the replay, or if the game is already active (say for instance, you're in bnet chat) it just starts the replay.
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On December 31 2009 02:28 Scorch wrote: The idea has nothing to do with Youtube. What the op wants basically requires developing a Flash replay viewing client which uses the Starcraft 2 engine. If you're going that far, you might as well just watch the replay with your own SC2 installation. This.
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On December 31 2009 02:28 Scorch wrote: The idea has nothing to do with Youtube. What the op wants basically requires developing a Flash replay viewing client which uses the Starcraft 2 engine. If you're going that far, you might as well just watch the replay with your own SC2 installation.
Again, the idea is not to use any client at all. The idea is that everything will be online driven and even be watchable from a TV which can access the internet. What about watching a match in HD on your TV screen? ._.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 31 2009 07:39 redmarine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 02:28 Scorch wrote: The idea has nothing to do with Youtube. What the op wants basically requires developing a Flash replay viewing client which uses the Starcraft 2 engine. If you're going that far, you might as well just watch the replay with your own SC2 installation. Again, the idea is not to use any client at all. The idea is that everything will be online driven and even be watchable from a TV which can access the internet. What about watching a match in HD on your TV screen? ._. The problem is that Starcraft/Starcraft 2 replay format is not a video format. It records player actions (hence why the replay size is small--it contains no video data), which means in order to turn it into video, it needs to translate those player actions into real motion of the models in the SC2 engine. Furthermore, if you're going to watch it the way an observer watches (e.g. free ability to move your vision about the map), the engine has to do this for EVERY part of the map, even those you're not watching, because it has to be able to update you on what happens if you do happen to look over that part.
Either you need a special viewer which can run the game actions in the background, without rendering them unless you scroll over that map portion (which is exactly what the in-game replay viewer does), or you need to render the entire map at once (basically, imagine taking a video of the whole map, all at once--the size of that video would be infeasibly large).
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It's a great idea, but there's too many flaws.
Is it going to be a fpvod or a replay? If it's a replay that won't work at all because there's nobody controlling where the screen would be.
If it's a fpvod then there's the matter of recording what's happening, encoding it to a video file, and saving it onto a computer, then once the game's over uploading it to the server, which takes a lot of CPU.
Thinking of this topic would actually make me wonder if blizzard can integrate a replay viewer into their website so replays can be uploaded there and we can watch them just like we'd load them in-game but instead in our browser.
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A central replay server would be better. The files would be smaller, higher quality and have the option to be viewed from alternate angles.
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On December 31 2009 04:22 Xaanix wrote: It would also be nice to double click a replay file in windows and have starcraft 2 launch and auto-run the replay, or if the game is already active (say for instance, you're in bnet chat) it just starts the replay.
That already works for war3 replays (at least if war3 isn't already running), so there's a very good chance that this feature will be (or already is) in the game.
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I don't see why so many people are against this idea. Its pretty conveniant if you ask me.
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I'd say no, since the only real way to do it is first-person.
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I think the it would be great if battle.net made it easy to view reps to the point where you could click on a link and it would start playing the rep in sc2, maybe in a streamlined executable made just for watching replays.
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Not only will progamers object (even boxer said so himself!), but thats hardly different from straight up downloading a replay and watching it in starcraft. But support for double clicking a replay and directly watching that replay instead of throwing it in your maps folder or loading into BWchart and autoreplaying would be great.
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People, people ... it is a cool idea, but as myself and others have explained it just won't work. If you have any idea how the replays work you would understand. A replay is not a video file. It is just a file that keeps track of what unit is where at what time and all that junk. The file is useless without the engine to interpret and display the information visually. Any video program used to view replays will need the SC2 engine to watch them. It isn't something youtube has the capability to do, unless they and blizzard design an application for it. It would be possible for blizzard to make such a website themselves, but very unlikely. The best you could realistically hope for is a separate program to watch replays on your computer. At this point you mind as well just open the replays in SC2. It is a good idea, but it isn't as "easy" as some of you think it is and is highly unlikely it will happen. If you want to watch a replay on youtube or something along those lines - it will have to be a long the lines of the VODs we currently have for SC1.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 31 2009 10:03 Saturnize wrote: I don't see why so many people are against this idea. Its pretty conveniant if you ask me. People aren't against it because it would a bad idea. People are against it because it's infeasible. Replay files are simply a record of player actions. To translate player actions into actual graphics, you need the SC2 engine, no real way around it. If you're running an SC2 engine app to watch replays, isn't that the same as watching them in the game?
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On December 31 2009 12:50 hellokitty[hk] wrote: Not only will progamers object (even boxer said so himself!), but thats hardly different from straight up downloading a replay and watching it in starcraft. But support for double clicking a replay and directly watching that replay instead of throwing it in your maps folder or loading into BWchart and autoreplaying would be great. Boxers comments refered to just a straight upload of replays. The reasons include that you would be able to view from anyones perspective or put the camera where you want and really analyse both players builds and their play methods.
If they were to create some kind of a system where you can 'record' a commentators viewpoint and have the streamed replays only accessible from this perspective then there would be no such objection. It would be no different than watching a commentated vid on tv (maybe without the speach tho cuz I don't think they are allowing recording of external audio on release). When you click the upload button it would just give some checkboxes -Enable first person -Enable observer mode (free camera) -Enable commentated camera (for the pre-recorded camera for the comentary) -Allow download (if off then it can only ve viewed but not saved).
This would be way better than anything youtube can produce, because the quality is only limited by your own pc's power.
-- On a seperate note I had an idea for replays in SC2 in general. When playing against another player they might be able to tick a box which makes it so that if you save the replay of the game you played with them it is encoded to your b.net account. So you can't give the replay to other people, it would only be viewable when logged on with your account.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On a seperate note I had an idea for replays in SC2 in general. When playing against another player they might be able to tick a box which makes it so that if you save the replay of the game you played with them it is encoded to your b.net account. So you can't give the replay to other people, it would only be viewable when logged on with your account. Why do you want to make watching reps with friends harder -__-
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Not to mention there is nothing stopping the person from recording video while they are watching it. They could just upload it to youtube and it would still get out there.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 31 2009 13:25 FrozenArbiter wrote: Why do you want to make watching reps with friends harder -__-
To be fair, I don't think it makes things harder to watch with a friend. You can still host a game with the replay, and a friend can join and watch. The only thing it blocks out is that friend watching it by himself, or handing out to other people.
On December 31 2009 13:27 789 wrote: Not to mention there is nothing stopping the person from recording video while they are watching it. They could just upload it to youtube and it would still get out there. Or there are a thousand ways they could bypass the account-specific locks on the replay.
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Exactly. There is going to be no real way to keep replays secret and be fair to everyone. If you make a checkbox that makes the replay unsaveable - a person who just played in the game won't be able to watch their own replay - that's not cool. Anything short of that there will be loopholes around. They should make replays like they have (cept online unlike war3). Give us some cool tools .. and the ability to rewind now is pretty awesome.
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This seems like a very bad idea, basically you doing nothing.
Starcraft II client will have the ability to play replays in all the ways you say with the small file size. This is because it stores all the graphics and cinematics on your computer then just has a simple file that tells them how to interact where as youtube is truely video based you would not be able to view them on youtube in a small file size without the game installed and at the point just put the replay in your folder and watch it.
It doesnt even make replays easier to find since basically all youtube would be is a replay database site which there are already plenty of.
Basically the idea here does nothing lol
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On December 31 2009 08:52 DeCoup wrote: A central replay server would be better. The files would be smaller, higher quality and have the option to be viewed from alternate angles.
^ Agreed.
And you should be able to put some small vids of yours, customize, etc, in your ACC page. Yes, SC facebook.
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You know the proleagues could just ban anyone who saves a replay (because they are watching the screens constantly even after the gg), its as easy as that. The only people who don't want replays are some pros, the other 99% of players want replays (to analyse themselves) and they want them to be better.
Also I thought the OP was implying that the replays would be video files, not an actual replay file (e.g a dedicated video site just for sc vids like fpvods). If it is the act of viewing an actual replay file on a youtube like site then this thread fails. There are so many problems with this even when not considering the technical aspects.
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How could anyone vote no on this? It will only help spread esports and SC2.
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Considering the enormous advances made with replays and observation, this would be remarkably pointless. To pull this off, Blizzard would have to make its own video capturing software that is tied to the game, which would take years to develop and integrate thoroughly. Even if you do get it into a video format, you won't be able to have the amount of information control you would have in a replay. I can see the merit behind the idea, but it would be just a waste of valuable time and money.
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I don't see it happening, but It'd still be cool if it somehow did happen.
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no good lol as youtube enviably will go with likes of things like veemo and ban the postage of just plain gameplay as it's a waste of their space esp with low view counts not worth the money for them let alone use their own cpu power to drive a game so you can watch it or become just a download dump for free. You may think google will do things off principle but you forget they are for profit pubically traded company.
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On December 31 2009 00:57 Puosu wrote: Lol obviously it would be cool, but whats up with creating concepts like this when there's zero chance of this happening?
I mean, it'd be cool if we could like, you know, get all StarCraft players together and form a new country!!! call it Aiur and lets get free hookers and blow there for everyone!!!!!! YEAH
A land with no women...
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On January 05 2010 13:28 Mike941 wrote: How could anyone vote no on this? It will only help spread esports and SC2. if it wasn't infeasible. Hence: NO
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On December 31 2009 07:39 redmarine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 02:28 Scorch wrote: The idea has nothing to do with Youtube. What the op wants basically requires developing a Flash replay viewing client which uses the Starcraft 2 engine. If you're going that far, you might as well just watch the replay with your own SC2 installation. Again, the idea is not to use any client at all. The idea is that everything will be online driven and even be watchable from a TV which can access the internet. What about watching a match in HD on your TV screen? ._. The idea is to have an easy way to watch a replay with a single click of a button. Save time, no need to download anything explicitly, no need to look up the right program to start or switch windows. The easy way of closing the viewer like you do with any browser window/tab, or just scroll out of view. The simple way of scrolling over the time line (not possible in starcraft nummero uno). Sure as hell would be convenient to have that all.
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I wouldn't want youtube filled with D----------------------------- fail level crap players uploading every replay out there.
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On January 09 2010 21:13 Ahzz wrote: I wouldn't want youtube filled with D----------------------------- fail level crap players uploading every replay out there.
Yeah, because youtube isn't already filled with D------------ musicians, anime music videos, millions of rickrolls, multiple uploads of the same viral videos, or any other kind of crap, no sir-eee. Adding all those D-------- crap player videos would probably break youtube with all the new crap that it never, ever, ever had before!!!!
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United States47024 Posts
On January 05 2010 13:28 Mike941 wrote: How could anyone vote no on this? It will only help spread esports and SC2. How about "no, its infeasible"?
Anyone voting yes either has no idea how replays in SC/SC2 work, or is ignoring the huge technical overhead required in converting replays into a viewable video format.
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This is a good idea, but I doubt they would go to a 3rd party such as youtube. They could just make their own platform specifically for SC2 replays, where you could watch the replays even without having SC2 installed. One more thing to do when you're at work
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On January 10 2010 04:56 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 13:28 Mike941 wrote: How could anyone vote no on this? It will only help spread esports and SC2. How about "no, its infeasible"? Anyone voting yes either has no idea how replays in SC/SC2 work, or is ignoring the huge technical overhead required in converting replays into a viewable video format. There is already a video player for Starcraft replays. It's called Starcraft. There, I solved the huge technical overhead problem.
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Definitly don't work with google unless they fork up a bit of power here, otherwise before we know it we'll be paying for this stuff
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On January 10 2010 09:26 Badjas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 04:56 TheYango wrote:On January 05 2010 13:28 Mike941 wrote: How could anyone vote no on this? It will only help spread esports and SC2. How about "no, its infeasible"? Anyone voting yes either has no idea how replays in SC/SC2 work, or is ignoring the huge technical overhead required in converting replays into a viewable video format. There is already a video player for Starcraft replays. It's called Starcraft. There, I solved the huge technical overhead problem.
Yeah. Anyone ever played Spore? The game has an auto upload to youtube option where you can take a video of your critters in demo mode, in-game. The most difficult thing about this for SC would be forcing the player to control the camera for the whole length of the game. Otherwise you'd have to deal with the game's autocamera... which, if it is anything like War3's would be pretty much awful.
That said, I'm not really sure that it's worth the effort. Unlike Spore VODs which are another way of sharing your creations and one of the best ways to show them in action, Starcraft 2 already has replays with rewind. Blizzard could just allow replay hosting and so reinforce the replay functionality without losing *that* much. It's not like not having auto-youtube upload makes it impossible to upload SC2 videos. Still, there is possibly some untapped potential in making it so easy that everyone can do it.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 10 2010 09:26 Badjas wrote: There is already a video player for Starcraft replays. It's called Starcraft. There, I solved the huge technical overhead problem. That's the point. While automated VOD-making might be reasonable, the OP's idea of observer-like streaming is just silly, because you need to stream the entire map's worth of action. If you're going to do that, you basically need the Starcraft 2 engine to do it.
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On January 10 2010 13:54 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 09:26 Badjas wrote: There is already a video player for Starcraft replays. It's called Starcraft. There, I solved the huge technical overhead problem. That's the point. While automated VOD-making might be reasonable, the OP's idea of observer-like streaming is just silly, because you need to stream the entire map's worth of action. If you're going to do that, you basically need the Starcraft 2 engine to do it.
He's right you know. I've been saying it before as well, if you want to watch a replay you need the game engine to do it. Replays aren't video files. It is technically possible for Blizzard to make a website like you want, but it is completely infeasible. They have no motivation to do it either. It will be an expensive project for little gain, unless they charge a fee. Which everyone would bitch about anyway. The best you could hope for is a separate replay viewing program from the game - at this point just fire the damn game up. When did having to use the game to watch replays of that game become so bad. The thing Blizzard does need to do though is make replays online again. The warcraft 3 single player only replay viewing was pretty bogus.
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On January 10 2010 13:54 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 09:26 Badjas wrote: There is already a video player for Starcraft replays. It's called Starcraft. There, I solved the huge technical overhead problem. That's the point. While automated VOD-making might be reasonable, the OP's idea of observer-like streaming is just silly, because you need to stream the entire map's worth of action. If you're going to do that, you basically need the Starcraft 2 engine to do it. That is what I am saying. There is nothing wrong with a browser plug-in for this to rely on an existing starcraft 2 installation. No, not everyone could access that content on the internet then, big deal. I am not saying either that this is something critical for the game, but it would be very convenient to not have to go through the hoops to see a replay within the game's UI.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 10 2010 19:41 Badjas wrote: That is what I am saying. There is nothing wrong with a browser plug-in for this to rely on an existing starcraft 2 installation. No, not everyone could access that content on the internet then, big deal. I am not saying either that this is something critical for the game, but it would be very convenient to not have to go through the hoops to see a replay within the game's UI. So, wait, you want the entire SC2 engine to be rendered *in a browser window*?
You realize that you could accomplish the same thing (except it takes the browser out of the equation) by: 1) associate replays with SC2, so that opening a replay file starts playing it in the SC2 engine and 2) windowed mode
Both of which are likely already in the game. Same functionality, no extra coding work by Blizzard.
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I know, that's why on a previous page I summed up the advantages.
Suppose those youtube clips wouldn't render in the context of a webpage, but would rather only load up in a new application that will steal the focus or even show fullscreen. It would just be bad. Now granted, starcraft doesn't need it, what I am saying is that it would be very nice to have in terms of usability.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
I voted No.
Obviously it's completely infeasible, but besides that, I prefer the current solution where people can record their replay into a video using Fraps or a similar program, compress it, and upload it to Youtube themselves.
Having to record and upload replays manually acts as a method of quality control. If you're going to upload a replay to Youtube, then the replay has to be good enough to justify going through all that trouble.
Not to mention the fact that you would definitely want a human observer to move the screen in the replay as it is recorded into a video. If you automate it, the automation will inevitably miss things that a skilled human will not.
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Yes, I wish replays could magically turn into home movies without using the SC2 engine and that they would be streamed directly to my brain. I also want a dark templar for a best friend (he's invisible, that's why no one can see him) and will one day give birth to a beautiful baby zergling boy.
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Zurich15234 Posts
On January 12 2010 00:52 tedster wrote: Yes, I wish replays could magically turn into home movies without using the SC2 engine and that they would be streamed directly to my brain. I also want a dark templar for a best friend (he's invisible, that's why no one can see him) and will one day give birth to a beautiful baby zergling boy. This pretty much sums up the thread. It's completely pointless to discuss something that is impossible and never going to happen.
I know SC2 news are pretty slow at the moment, but can't we just not talk about SC2 for a while instead of 'discussing' the most ridiculous ideas you can come up with? There is TSL going on after all.
I want a dark templar for my best friend too.
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