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On May 17 2010 07:31 ondik wrote:I hate getting cheesed in PvP (just can't hold off 2 gate rush ) and PvZ (bleh zerglings) but I LOVE getting cheesed in PvT (till now I lost only once to reaper rush and I have encountered it 10+ times)
2 gate yourself when you scout thier 2nd gate, you will have slightly better econ since your 2nd gate went up later, you should hold it off easily and will come out slightly ahead, trying to hold off 2 gate with 1 gate on a short rush distance map usually ends in failure
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Terran cheeses me the most Reaper -> hellion -> cloaked banshees all day
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Cheese is a strategy that takes less skill to pull off than it does to block, often taking advantage of a flaw in game design.
Like doing all jump kicks in old fighting games. Simply teching to VR or DTs is NOT cheese.
The cannon rush is cheese. Its much easier to pull off than it is for the opponent to block it, and requires very little skill. This is the cheese I see most in games. Though I don't find it hard to stop.
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On May 17 2010 07:45 DrSmoke wrote: Cheese is a strategy that takes less skill to pull off than it does to block, often taking advantage of a flaw in game design.
Like doing all jump kicks in old fighting games. Simply teching to VR or DTs is NOT cheese.
The cannon rush is cheese. Its much easier to pull off than it is for the opponent to block it, and requires very little skill. This is the cheese I see most in games. Though I don't find it hard to stop. You're so right!
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80% of the cheese I see is reapers.
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I dunno, I consider cheese to be specifically a high-risk early all-in. I play protoss, and I don't really consider fast void rays to be a "cheese" unless you do it in such a way where you automatically lose if they are repelled ie: doing it blind or proxying. Void rays can be a pretty legitimate way to segue into a normal build if you just get them quickly while also building your ground army, I don't think that they are just inherently cheese.
Instant reaper vs protoss I would say is cheese. Reason being not because I'm a ridiculously biased protoss player, but rather because when a Terran does a fast reaper against me as protoss, he basically gets an auto-loss if he doesn't win right then and there. By the same token, a Terran player can get reapers relatively early to use for harass without just committing all-in to the first attack.
I actually love when terran try to reaper rush me, personally. I might lose 1-2 probes, but as soon as the stalker comes out the game is basically over.
All that being said though I think the answer IS still protoss. Just saying I think some people's definition of "cheese" is too broad. Any kind of early aggression isn't automatically cheese IMO. It has to be done in the form of an all-in for it to really be cheese. If you are able to end the game with early aggression without putting yourself at massive risk that's the opponent's failure, not a cheese.
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been cheesed by 3 terran fags in a row, 1 i stopped and won, the next on steppes of war he proxy 8rax into mass marauder? lol wut? so i make a zealot and start stalkers to stop the reapers that dont come and get rolled by a reaper fake. the 3rd im pretty sure he was map hacking because he randomly sends his scvs to my watch tower to make his barracks' then rallies to my main and never checks another main for me.
changing my vote to its insecure terranf aggots who cheese the most.
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Real cheese = 2/3gate proxy, forge/gate rush, 6pool, 6/7/8 rax proxy reaper... eg All-in
Everything else is just lack of scouting and the all pervasive 'anything that beats me is cheese' attitude that people have nowadays. I couldn't tell if Diggity was being serious or not but in a match he was commentating with idra vs (someone who's name escapes me) he was calling a hellion/marauder push that punished idra overexpanding/droning as 'cheese' which is just plain ridiculous.
More on topic... toss does the most real cheese (all-ins) byfar.
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Protoss. Especially in 2v2s. Let's see: -Proxy Zealot rush -Proxy pylon -Void ray rush -Dark templar rush
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As a 1500 Plat player.
The race I find that tries to cheese the most is Protoss, every second game is Voidray rushes or 2 gate proxy etc. More often than not they fail but I played a guy recently who did 2 gate proxy 3 games in a row to me even though he lost all the time. I think alot of new players to SC2 who didn't play SC1 have just picked up on Protoss as its kinda the easiest race to get good with fast and just do 1 build order every single game and manage to get plat with it.
The most effective cheese is probably terran players. Still don't lose to it often but banshee rush is one of those things that is difficult to stop even if you know its coming, can be easy to spot it late then get immediately killed by 2 banshees before any Hydra appear.
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LOL at everyone calling voidray cheese.
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rofl at all the terrans voting for protoss because they say void ray is cheese.
I get cheesed by terrans 10 times more often than the other races. In the 1400-1500 plat range it seems like 2/3rds of all terrans just go proxy rax-> fast marauders to end the game before 5 minutes.
Thankfully in a game yesterday I remembered the name of one of the guys who did it to me when I faced him again. And of course that cheesy fucker goes for the EXACT same thing, he actually goes for proxy rax marauders against EVERY SINGLE PROTOSS he faces. Fucking retarded. His excuse: "Otherwise you'll just go void rays." Lol. What was funny was that he said I only won because I got "a lucky surround"
Btw. void rays are so boring I dont get why so many Protosses go for them. Phoenixes ftw.
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On May 17 2010 08:10 arb wrote: been cheesed by 3 terran fags in a row, 1 i stopped and won, the next on steppes of war he proxy 8rax into mass marauder? lol wut? so i make a zealot and start stalkers to stop the reapers that dont come and get rolled by a reaper fake. the 3rd im pretty sure he was map hacking because he randomly sends his scvs to my watch tower to make his barracks' then rallies to my main and never checks another main for me.
changing my vote to its insecure terranf aggots who cheese the most. Yummy tears like this make me think I should cheese more
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are u guys voting on protoss just because u guys hate the race?
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i don't think anyone voting zerg is being reasonable.
lol, i just can't fathom it.
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Definitely Protoss, whether it's cannons outside my base, cannons IN my base, or gateways in my base.
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1v1 it's protoss doing proxy 2 gate in my base. In 2v2 it's zerg doing 6pool. If those things counts as cheese...
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I play on the Korean server, and seriously at least like 50% of the Protoss try and hide cannons in my base. They love that shit over there.
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On May 17 2010 08:57 Shizuru~ wrote: are u guys voting on protoss just because u guys hate the race?
No, because we got proxy gate Anyway, when I started playing ladder after the reset i got like 50% cheesed by gold players, then after 10-15 games it stopped, return to the 4/5 gate all in
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