|
On May 17 2010 11:09 Liquid`Drone wrote: glider is correct void ray isn't cheese dt isnt cheese proxy gate or offensive cannon, sure, that's normally cheese (depends on followup tho) 8 rax reaper is normally cheese 6pool is cheese sentry has nothing to do with cheese at all
However it is perceived as such because most of the players doing it fail horribly at standard play. They go dark templar’s and when it fails they die.
What is the definition of cheese?
“Cheese
A strategy that relies overwhelmingly or entirely on secrecy. If scouted, the strategy fails and puts the executing player at a severe disadvantage, or right out costs him the game “
So while yes, this is using quotes to fit my perspective of things.
The word cheese is so widespread and often used that any player remotely affiliated with this forum will pick right up on it and say. "Yea that build is kind of gay / lame / retarded."
|
i get cheesed by all races equally because i'm a random player. ;; just cause you don't know what race i am =/= auto-cheese. ._.
|
On May 17 2010 12:20 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 11:09 Liquid`Drone wrote: glider is correct void ray isn't cheese dt isnt cheese proxy gate or offensive cannon, sure, that's normally cheese (depends on followup tho) 8 rax reaper is normally cheese 6pool is cheese sentry has nothing to do with cheese at all
However it is perceived as such because most of the players doing it fail horribly at standard play. They go dark templar’s and when it fails they die. What is the definition of cheese? “Cheese A strategy that relies overwhelmingly or entirely on secrecy. If scouted, the strategy fails and puts the executing player at a severe disadvantage, or right out costs him the game “ So while yes, this is using quotes to fit my perspective of things. The word cheese is so widespread and often used that any player remotely affiliated with this forum will pick right up on it and say. "Yea that build is kind of gay / lame / retarded."
i would say cheese is a stupid word that shouldnt even exist and its real embodiment is for bad players to rage about losing to builds that you actually have to adapt to play against, or requires some luck etc
but if one were to quantify it into a definition that one fits it pretty well most of the time
and yes protoss does this kind of secrecy/proxy builds alot more
|
On May 17 2010 09:52 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 09:24 ymirheim wrote:On May 17 2010 09:16 Liquid`Drone wrote: for p to be winning this pool seems like people strongly misuse the term cheese I think about 95% of games ive seen where cheese was used terran was the culprit.
I haven't seen proxy gates for two months and I haven't seen zerg cheese even once. Well I don't know about everyone elses reason but this is precisely why I voted protoss actually. Two gate proxy is ridiculously common imo, to the point where I probably play a toss who tries to set up gateways inside or just outside my base about five times for every time I play a terran who does a super fast reaper or other variation of proxy rax. Actually something like my last seven PvT on scrap station and desert oasis were against two gate proxy. shouldnt two gate proxy be pretty easy to hold off as terran? the thing is, drone probably plays like 50 times as many games as other people so his opinion really says a lot more than some gold players who play like 10 games a week. Ehm.. what??
Whether or not you can fend it off has nothing to do with the definition. I am perfectly capable of stopping 2gate proxy if I see it. If I see the toss set up that pylon I just chuckle and think "nice, 20 easy points".
But it is still cheese. Which is what the question was.
|
I play terran. And I always cringe when I find that he sent his starting probe to my base and made a pylon ---> 2 gate -_-
|
I don't think cheese is a word that should be used with SC2. :/
|
I would've thought it would be Protoss, but I get cheesed by Terran a lot more. One of my recent matches on Incineration Zone the T lifted right away and went to the gold, walled in and made a super quick MM army. I was quite surprised.
|
Attempted cheese? Toss easily with cannon rushing. It doesn't usually work because while Im not all that skilled I am usually skilled enough to check for it. However they try it quite a fair bit more often than T or Z try all-in cheese. Terrans upon occasion try for a super fast reaper + bunker but its rare. Zerg only ever try baneling busts if Im terran or occasionally I get a silly sally try a spine crawler spawn on my creep if I pull Zerg as my race. Both of those are much rarer than Toss cannon attempts. I would say 1 out of 5 cheese attempts are done by a terran or zerg vs those tried by toss. Just my experiences. Frankly I don't run into it much. Although there seems to be this great murpheys law that says the second Im tired and forget to check for cannons, there they are hehe.
|
As many times as i get proxied or mass zealot rushed, dt rushed, all in stalker rushed. Terran by far and away holds the title for most cheese.
Out of every 10 terrans i play, you might get 1 who plays straight up.
Its either, 3 rax marine all ins, cut worker reaper bunker rushes, cut worker marauder rushes, fast banshee cloak.
People say protoss is the 'all in' race, but some of those terran strats out there are so all in its rediculous. At least with a 4 gate build you have options. And really, blizzard has forced protoss into cheese builds... straight up our units dont compare at various points in the game, if we arent hiding something, chances are you are a worse player and we dont feel we need to.
|
how is the 6 pool doing in sc2?? is it still auto-win?
|
I feel the need to differentiate between the high-level void ray rush--with a follow up transition, viable defenses, and proper micro of the void rays-- and the low-level void ray rush--which is just throwing up a fast starport, not properly defending yourself, and not having a plan if the void ray fails. The latter is cheese, and relies solely on their opponent not scouting it.
|
On May 17 2010 06:45 On_Slaught wrote: Reaper rushes are rare nowindays reaper rush is cheese? i dont think so, maybe if u make the barrack in enemy base and a bunker or make 15 of them and snipes the hatcery/cc/nexus it can be defined as cheese.
Myself i get most cheese from zergs that 6pool me but thats ofc because im zerg myself. Not that it bother me as it tend to fail 9 of 10 times.
|
I GUESS YOU FORGOT TO PUT THE RANDOM RACE UP THERE.
95% of the cheese i face is that simply put hands down
|
|
I love hearing people bitch about cheese. Just shows how bad you are at the game.
|
|
Zerg has least votes wtf? O_o
|
i say zerg, havnt play any ladder game on incineration zone vs zerg (ZvP) without beign 6pooled
|
On May 17 2010 09:53 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 09:48 Riot20 wrote: I think most people should look up or get a general definition of what cheese really is. Void rays/dts are a tactic. No they are not a tactic, what do you proxy star gates into Voidrays to counter? NOTHING ANYONE doing it usually end up admitting that it is done to get easy wins against poor players. These people who hide their tech, or go for TRICK plays that rely soledly on stealth to have success suck at playing standard. Why the heck would you not hide your DT tech? Seriously, DT's are worthless if the enemy knows they're coming.
|
9/10 times I get cheesed, it is a random player. It's gotten to the point where it seems that most random players (obviously not all) play random because they are only able to cheese, and want to have some variety in their games
ps. in-base 2-gate is NOT cheese. It is an opening.
|
|
|
|