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On May 17 2010 14:15 FeLonius wrote:9/10 times I get cheesed, it is a random player. It's gotten to the point where it seems that most random players (obviously not all) play random because they are only able to cheese, and want to have some variety in their games ps. in-base 2-gate is NOT cheese. It is an opening. Agreed. It's not like in-base 2-gate is an all-in or an auto-loss if countered. If I 2-gate, I don't do it for the early win but to apply pressure and keep my opponent contained so I can expand/tech more freely.
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I know balance is mostly focused around 1v1, But they will really need to fix prox rax reaper/6 pool vs Protoss (or any race really) as its pretty much impossible to stop as protoss or help regardless if you know its coming.
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On May 17 2010 14:24 Delrake wrote: I know balance is mostly focused around 1v1, But they will really need to fix prox rax reaper/6 pool vs Protoss (or any race really) as its pretty much impossible to stop as protoss or help regardless if you know its coming. Blizz wants there to be 50% win rates across the board, right? Well, proxy reaper/6 pool has just as good of a chance of failing (thereby losing the game) as it does succeeding.. Proxy reaper is so easy to beat as protoss (usually); I wish every terran did it, I'd have an 80% win rate.
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In 1v1 setting either is fairly easy to stop, however in 2v2 combined I can assure after many many 2v2 games that its almost impossible to stop, and if you do your partner would of been most likely better off massing and going for the 2v1.
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Um... I think that Powering to 3 Sentries to block a ramp and destroy a natrual (Zerg or Terran) IS cheese because its intentionally racing for 1 unit to exploit an essentially non combat ability to trap someone in their base. IE my army will be smaller, but I can exploit this because he simply wont be able to reinforce his combat troops but I will.
This "2 gate" thing about people cheesing- I think that is a legitimate build. Especially if its in their base. Really, its not out of the realm of a descent build that you can transition out of. Proxy 2 gate is totally different of course, as is hiding pylons and powering to Warp Gates to make 90% of your army exclusively in their base. Nothing wrong with 2 gates in a base that is fairly easy for you to scout- even proxy should be suspected by something missing.
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Proxy 2-gates is the easiest cheese to execute imo. I've done it a few times out of boredom and it works really well if you're gates are in a nice spot.
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Mostly protoss, but that has something to do with the fact that 50-60% of my games are against protoss.
On May 17 2010 14:24 Delrake wrote: I know balance is mostly focused around 1v1, But they will really need to fix prox rax reaper/6 pool vs Protoss (or any race really) as its pretty much impossible to stop as protoss or help regardless if you know its coming.
I play 2v2 t/p, and we've won every single game we've been handed a proxy reaper/6 pool. I wall and go gas/rax/lab/reaper/marauder into fast upgraded hellions as a rule, and my partner goes 10 or 11 gate into fast stalkers if the other team is t/z.
He gets rushed, I build more marauders and get concussive shot instead of making reapers to harass and/or building a second factory immediately. My reaper + partner's probes usually eliminates the lings as a problem, and a few probes and/or my reaper can chase their reaper(s) until the stalker or my marauder comes out. Marauders ensure we don't have bunker trouble, and stalker or reaper can hunt the proxy. My partner's a little behind from a few probes killed, and my hellions are a little late, but we can both expo and use marauders/stalker to cover mineral lines since we know they can't bring another strong push soon, while hellions can handle lings if necessary. Bit later, my medivac drops upgraded hellions on one or both of them. GG.
I've never been the one rushed... well, one fail team sent the reaper to me and the lings to my partner, who ate them for lunch with a zealot. I killed the reaper with decent scv micro to stall while my reaper came out.
The only problem with this build (him early gate into fast stalker, me fast reaper into hellion) is that there is a timing window where an early roach/marauder all-in will probably win if we didn't scout the roach warren.
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When I was in silver I got 6 pooled all the time, but in gold I rarely see 1 base zergs nor reapers. However, there was a span where I got proxy gated inside my base on Steppes of War at least 5 times in a row. I guess it serves me right for banshee rushing all my TvPs till I got to high gold.
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http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Definitions read and learn what cheese is and whats not...according to the posts 90% of what people believe are cheeses are just normal plays
but still i have to admit that protoss is the cheesiest race :D
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On May 17 2010 06:57 PatandPat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 06:31 cursor wrote: Protoss gets my vote. They are getting another abuse checklist being developed. [ ] Proxy Pylon / Warpgates [ ] Early/Proxy Void Rays [ ] Dark Templar rush [ ] ForceField ramp abuse FF ramp abuse is not cheese....
thats why its an abuse list, not cheese list
yea definitely protoss tho
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On May 17 2010 14:58 Iri wrote: Mostly protoss, but that has something to do with the fact that 50-60% of my games are against protoss.
I second this.
I also get reaper rushed in some form by about 2/3 of all Terran I face. I'd say that counts as cheese, but on a more minor level.
The poll is too ambiguous.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Get cheesed by everyone. Everyone seems to love stupid all in shit.
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cannon rush and proxy void rays +generic rushes
vs
planetary fortress +generic rushes
vs
wut 8 pool?
in terms of interesting shit going on toss wins it.
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I dont think toss cheeses too much, most of the tosses I meet go for standard 10 gate proxy.
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cheeze is relative, during the savior era doing 2 hatch openings was pretty much considered cheeze, but now it's a staple again as jaedong brought it back in style.
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imo; cheese = loser talk. if you lose to an early all in strategy, usually its your own mistake. econ build is a strategy as well as early all-ins which exploit that.
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Sure cheeses are strategies, they're just superlame strategies.
I'm in bronze, and I see protoss use cheese most often.
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Z - nothing but all-in's with speed- and banelings from 1 base...
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United Arab Emirates5090 Posts
protoss most cheese terran most mechanical (protoss least mechanical)
looks like some aspects of sc1 has carried over to sc2
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On May 17 2010 06:57 ymirheim wrote: Without a doubt protoss. TvP on scrap station has turned my scouting pattern into a Rorschach painting.
All I can ever see in Rorschach paintings are void rays! In fact doing nothing but producing a void ray asap and instantly sending it to the enemy base places you savely in mid gold already. Doesn't work against opponents who scout though^^
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