hey all, with the release of SC2Manager Replay Launcher, i can finally release my most recent replay pack of games on the Asia server. I play vs many of the top players in the pack, including Tester's random=>Zerg (lol). Its not as big as the last pack, but I think there are a lot of good games in there.
In this thread I'll be answering any questions regarding my play, my thoughts, and any other general questions like that.
Hi I have a question about zvp mid and late game armies. What is your preferred unit composition when dealing with a colossus based army? I was originally using the hydraling corrupter composition that Idra seemed to favor in his released games. However once colossus numbers reach 3+ I can't kill them all quick enough to not have my hydralisk army decimated. I've tried sniping the colossus before engaging with hydralisks but the stalker ball brings them down too quickly. An example of this was in Idra's games versus Tester in the altitude invitational.
You mentioned a roach into ultralisk style in your latest interview but that sounds pretty vulnerable to an immortal based play. Protoss should naturally build immortals upon seeing the roach base and that only helps his unit composition once you transition. Is it more of a hydra roach mix into ultralisks or straight on roach?
Last question is what do you think of a hydralisk ultra combination? I've been experimenting with it a ton in the unit tester/single player to decent affect. Resource wise it costs about the same as hydra corrupter as ultra = 2corrupters. To make up for the fast hive tech I cut carapace until later and rush ultralisks right after lair finishes. The ultralisks tank quite effectively while hydralisks deal out the damage. If he decides not to target ultras, they deal out a ton of splash damage to the clumped protoss ball.
Very cool to share this with us, Artosis. Do you have any qualms about casting over these for use on YouTube, or were you planning to do that yourself?
The Sc2 manager linked on the MYM site (at least one of the mirrors) is an older version and crashes for me with patch 16, trying to get the latest version (4.1.1?) to confirm.
On June 14 2010 13:52 schiznak wrote: Artosis, i know the general consensus is that 1-basing as protoss against zerg is un-doable
What do you generally do against a 4-5gate allin from a protoss?
spine crawler. MASS spine crawler.
Edit: Lol, just by browsing the replays i have to say...manner up Artosis. These are random ladder games right? "u should consider quitting this game" Lol'd right there.
On June 14 2010 14:12 Tump wrote: The Sc2 manager linked on the MYM site (at least one of the mirrors) is an older version and crashes for me with patch 16, trying to get the latest version (4.1.1?) to confirm.
indeed yes, my findings are true.
artosis, you might wanna have MYM change the mirrors for the sc2 manager, they are an earlier version that doesnt currently work with patch 16.
here is the mirror i used for the latest version (4.1.1): [url blocked] (from someone in the sc2 manager thread on tl, props)
Wowowow ty! Haven't had a chance to check em out yet but definitely will! Thnx again in advance <3
Serious Question: How are you able to afford living in such an expensive place there and devote so much time to playing/casting SCII? I've always wondered this especially since SC has been losing the attention lately. Have you saved up money to pay for your living expenses or are still somehow receiving an income?
Could you specify Tester's playername, or which replay it is? They are all just named in the [Recent] autosave format. I checked them out in SC2Gears, but (since I can't read korean too well...I actually tried sounding out every korean name but couldn't find any "tester", so maybe he's on another name?)
Thanks Artosis........this is fuckin' awesome.
Edit: I found out that tester's name should be 서기수 (? I think. Besides the obvious "TesteR") but I don't seem to see that in any of the replays. Sorry if I'm missing it, but do you happen to know which game it was? Unless SC2Gears is hating on me D:
Yeah, 4.1.1 dosent work to watch some replays for me either, im trying to watch whitera vs machine (0.17 replays) and dosent work. But the one suggested by the manager itself, also whitera vs machine works, so I dont know. I guess I will try to download the replays again and see if they somehow where corrupted or something.
First of all thank you for uploading a replay package.
Some of your opponents suck.... the terran with korean name has a huge stockpile of resources and in Atosis vs Ptosin he tried for a DT+stargate open with minimal defenses + no wall off...
I believe there is a thread here on TL which shows 9ov > 10 extractor trick. Do you think the person who did the study is incorrect?
I heard people on the asian server like cheese for breakfast (cheesy openings). From my observation you usually scout @ ~14th drone. How would you go about countering a possible proxy 2x 10gate? How about a zealot timing push with +1 weapon upgrade? (you seem to use roachs only in mid-game, after you get a hydra den, as if you are avoiding roachs!) What about a 7 rack reaper all-in cheese?
There is a muta v muta battle in steppes of war. Good use of queens to gain air superiority! I have a feeling that you are letting your opponent take a lot of map control (his mutas are tumor hunting+patrolling all the expansions). Is there a reason you choose not to a little more aggressive with your mutas?
@banelings. In Artosis vs Idra, given the long travel distance and the ov scout (idra would have loads of time to prepare). Why did you choose to continue with banelings?
You mentioned a roach into ultralisk style in your latest interview but that sounds pretty vulnerable to an immortal based play. Protoss should naturally build immortals upon seeing the roach base and that only helps his unit composition once you transition. Is it more of a hydra roach mix into ultralisks or straight on roach?
if you add some infestors with neural parasite into the mix, immortals should no longer be that much of a problem. Since roaches are so cheap compared to other units, you can easily afford infestors as many as needed.
asian replay packs... whats next? a black replay pack? how about a latino rep pack? i sure don't know but what i do know is that if i put out a white replay pack i would be considered a racist. fucking double standards.
On June 14 2010 17:45 G5 wrote: asian replay packs... whats next? a black replay pack? how about a latino rep pack? i sure don't know but what i do know is that if i put out a white replay pack i would be considered a racist. fucking double standards.
for starters asian isn't a colour, so your point of black or white replay packs is completely void. It sounds like you're the racist.
there are actually kind of american and europe replay packs out there showcasing players from different servers or tournaments.
On June 14 2010 17:45 G5 wrote: asian replay packs... whats next? a black replay pack? how about a latino rep pack? i sure don't know but what i do know is that if i put out a white replay pack i would be considered a racist. fucking double standards.
for starters asian isn't a colour, so your point of black or white replay packs is completely void. It sounds like you're the racist.
there are actually kind of american and europe replay packs out there showcasing players from different servers or tournaments.
Ty Artosis, we all <3 your contribution, dedication and commitment to the game and the community. By the way can you force the other three foreigners beside you ( Idra, Tasteless, and Apollo) to release a replay pack as well ( A MEGA REPLAY pack of the 4 Dragons ^^).
Questions: 1.Can you compare and contrast your play-style to Idra. As you have told us many times that you guys discuss strategies together, does that mean you guys play the game in similar ways?
2. How do foreigner Zergs differ from Asian Zergs?
3. I believe you and Idra have experimented a lot vs mech, can you tell us what Is the best way to play vs Mech and Terran in general. what are the crucial timings/moments in the game.
lol, are you guys seriously debating racism on replay packs? I'm 100% sure [G5] was making a joke.
That being said, I am also quite interested in the responses to GunMan's questions posted above. I think they are very good...especially contrasting the Asian server Zerg playstyle to other servers. My guess is a lot of focus on queens and fast hatch, contrasting vs NA server "IdrA" style tech/macro builds...but having never been able to play on the Asia server I'd love to hear Artosis' response on that
A few (simple) questions of my own...
1) Do you find a higher level of difficulty/competency of opponents on the Asia server? This is asked from the view of taking into account the variable playstyles between server "meshing" with your playstyle...so rather, as opposed to "is it harder for your build/playstyle on Asia", this question more or less refers to actually competency of opponents. Or do you see little difference?
1) b] Is there a bigger focus on either (or both, I suppose) macro/micro on Asia, compared to other servers?
2) Do you have a favorite matchup? In terms of fun, rather than "this is easy to win".
3) Do you have a favorite replay in the pack? ^^
aaaand finally... 4) Who has been your hardest opponent/series to date? Whether you won or lost.
On June 14 2010 18:34 InfiniteIce wrote: lol, are you guys seriously debating racism on replay packs? I'm 100% sure GunMan was making a joke.
That being said, I am also quite interested in the responses to GunMan's questions posted above. I think they are very good...especially contrasting the Asian server Zerg playstyle to other servers. My guess is a lot of focus on queens and fast hatch, contrasting vs NA server "IdrA" style tech/macro builds...but having never been able to play on the Asia server I'd love to hear Artosis' response on that
I think you mean G5 was stating a joke I was simply informing G5 that Asian refers to the Asian server, It has nothing to with the race, and more precisely the absurd claim of "double standard" mentioned by G5.
On June 14 2010 18:34 InfiniteIce wrote: lol, are you guys seriously debating racism on replay packs? I'm 100% sure GunMan was making a joke.
That being said, I am also quite interested in the responses to GunMan's questions posted above. I think they are very good...especially contrasting the Asian server Zerg playstyle to other servers. My guess is a lot of focus on queens and fast hatch, contrasting vs NA server "IdrA" style tech/macro builds...but having never been able to play on the Asia server I'd love to hear Artosis' response on that
I think you mean G5, was making a joke I was simply stating that Asian refers to the Asian server, It has nothing to with the race, and more precisely the absurd claim of "double standard" mentioned by G5.
Errrrrrrrr, yea, sorry. It's cause I really liked your questions, accidentally wrote your name twice. <3 edited my post, sorry!
I have one more question. After watching Desert Oasis (4) replay, where the Terran opens with dual proxy barracks. It reminded me of one of the videos on scforall (you, idra, forzenarbiter) where talking about why pvt in BW was imbalance. One of the things frozenarbiter said was that because Protoss can proxy/cheeses and even if the cheese fails they can transition smoothly and without any consequence to mid/late game. So don't you think the same dynamic applies to TvZ?
Btw, something useful when using SCManager when u want to know race: In the bottom left it has both players' names then parentheses with korean (chinese?) lettering. Terran is two characters like Zerg but you can differentiate between the two cuz Artosis is zerg. Protoss is four characters.
As a Protoss player I found it annoying to just 'hope' for a protoss game, so I was happy when I figured this out, just thought others might find this useful too.
According to various posts in the thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127081¤tpage=6 v0.18.0.15655. 0.18 replay version automatically opens the APM chart. I seem to be having this problem with these Artosis' replays. I downloaded the official version which updated as soon as it launched. How are you guys getting it to work?
Edit: OK, not all his replays are those version. Those just won't work. The others are fine!
idk whats gonna be more epic - artosis randomly bming all of his opponenets when he loses or his very high lvl zerg play. either way looking forward to watching this ty~
On June 14 2010 13:33 JoshSuth wrote: Very cool to share this with us, Artosis. Do you have any qualms about casting over these for use on YouTube, or were you planning to do that yourself?
you can do what you like with them, i have no plans to cast these replays.
On June 14 2010 12:37 kNyTTyM wrote: Hi I have a question about zvp mid and late game armies. What is your preferred unit composition when dealing with a colossus based army? I was originally using the hydraling corrupter composition that Idra seemed to favor in his released games. However once colossus numbers reach 3+ I can't kill them all quick enough to not have my hydralisk army decimated. I've tried sniping the colossus before engaging with hydralisks but the stalker ball brings them down too quickly. An example of this was in Idra's games versus Tester in the altitude invitational.
You mentioned a roach into ultralisk style in your latest interview but that sounds pretty vulnerable to an immortal based play. Protoss should naturally build immortals upon seeing the roach base and that only helps his unit composition once you transition. Is it more of a hydra roach mix into ultralisks or straight on roach?
Last question is what do you think of a hydralisk ultra combination? I've been experimenting with it a ton in the unit tester/single player to decent affect. Resource wise it costs about the same as hydra corrupter as ultra = 2corrupters. To make up for the fast hive tech I cut carapace until later and rush ultralisks right after lair finishes. The ultralisks tank quite effectively while hydralisks deal out the damage. If he decides not to target ultras, they deal out a ton of splash damage to the clumped protoss ball.
there are 2 armies im liking right now.
the main army im practicing with is Roach/Ultralisk (with some lings mixed in because its a bit gas heavy). I'm really liking the build, and if they go immortals, that's great. you simply pump out hydras to join the army.
the second army im liking so far, is Roach/Hydra/Ling. I'm not completely sure yet, I've practiced this less than the Roach/Ultralisk army, but it seems good in theory and practice so far. I have no idea which is better.
As for the Hydra/Ultra army, I guess you would have to mix in tons of lings with that because its so gas intensive. Hydras are so slow, I dunno, I don't like to have armies based around them that much. You get one engagement and the games over. I'll try it out some though when the beta comes back.
On June 15 2010 09:40 Pandain wrote: all i get is "Unable to load map." Any suggestions"?
Same here, "Unable to Load Replay" shows up about half way through the loading bar. I'd love to watch these if anyone has any solutions. I'm able to watch my own replays as well as ones downloaded through the SC2Manager interface itself.
yeah, sry, didnt mention that. i am a Zerg player at the moment.
So you were serious when you said: "1 more Zergnerf and I'm out!" ? I'd hate to lose you as a member of the swarm dude...
its a possibility. i havent decided one way or the other. if the zerg vs terran matchup doesn't get any better, more zergs might switch to terran. id prefer to stay zerg though, hate that marauder unit.
On June 14 2010 13:52 schiznak wrote: Artosis, i know the general consensus is that 1-basing as protoss against zerg is un-doable
What do you generally do against a 4-5gate allin from a protoss?
you just have to learn to make drones until the last second, and then wayyyyyyyyyyyyy over-defend. make like 6 spine crawlers, speedlings, hydras, use both queens with some transfusions, etc. the only thing you have to do is stop the attack.
On June 14 2010 13:58 dethrawr wrote: Thanks for the replays man, I'll be sure to analyse and find all your faults and use them against you next time I come across you in ladder.
On June 14 2010 14:12 Tump wrote: The Sc2 manager linked on the MYM site (at least one of the mirrors) is an older version and crashes for me with patch 16, trying to get the latest version (4.1.1?) to confirm.
try the first link, and the one in this thread as well. dont know which version they uploaded. its easy to find in the TL.net sc2 forums though!
On June 14 2010 13:52 schiznak wrote: Artosis, i know the general consensus is that 1-basing as protoss against zerg is un-doable
What do you generally do against a 4-5gate allin from a protoss?
spine crawler. MASS spine crawler.
Edit: Lol, just by browsing the replays i have to say...manner up Artosis. These are random ladder games right? "u should consider quitting this game" Lol'd right there.
i was giving that newbie some really valuable, time-saving advice!
The replays are not working for me either, getting "unable to load file." And yeah, ZERG FOR LIFE. I'm disappointed how many z's have switched to T already. The swarm is a blood oath.
On June 14 2010 16:36 FlamingTurd wrote: Wowowow ty! Haven't had a chance to check em out yet but definitely will! Thnx again in advance <3
Serious Question: How are you able to afford living in such an expensive place there and devote so much time to playing/casting SCII? I've always wondered this especially since SC has been losing the attention lately. Have you saved up money to pay for your living expenses or are still somehow receiving an income?
I work in the eSports industry over here. I actually don't get to play enough SC2 currently, not nearly as much as I'd like to at least
On June 14 2010 16:41 InfiniteIce wrote: Could you specify Tester's playername, or which replay it is? They are all just named in the [Recent] autosave format. I checked them out in SC2Gears, but (since I can't read korean too well...I actually tried sounding out every korean name but couldn't find any "tester", so maybe he's on another name?)
Thanks Artosis........this is fuckin' awesome.
Edit: I found out that tester's name should be 서기수 (? I think. Besides the obvious "TesteR") but I don't seem to see that in any of the replays. Sorry if I'm missing it, but do you happen to know which game it was? Unless SC2Gears is hating on me D:
Thank you again.
tester uses the id oGsSKS or maybe it was oGssSKS... one or the other. oGs is the top team in korea, SKS is his initials.
On June 14 2010 17:24 Hikari wrote: First of all thank you for uploading a replay package.
Some of your opponents suck.... the terran with korean name has a huge stockpile of resources and in Atosis vs Ptosin he tried for a DT+stargate open with minimal defenses + no wall off...
I believe there is a thread here on TL which shows 9ov > 10 extractor trick. Do you think the person who did the study is incorrect?
I heard people on the asian server like cheese for breakfast (cheesy openings). From my observation you usually scout @ ~14th drone. How would you go about countering a possible proxy 2x 10gate? How about a zealot timing push with +1 weapon upgrade? (you seem to use roachs only in mid-game, after you get a hydra den, as if you are avoiding roachs!) What about a 7 rack reaper all-in cheese?
There is a muta v muta battle in steppes of war. Good use of queens to gain air superiority! I have a feeling that you are letting your opponent take a lot of map control (his mutas are tumor hunting+patrolling all the expansions). Is there a reason you choose not to a little more aggressive with your mutas?
@banelings. In Artosis vs Idra, given the long travel distance and the ov scout (idra would have loads of time to prepare). Why did you choose to continue with banelings?
Lots to address here. I'll do my best.
1) Yes, lots of players ranked highly on every server are complete garbage.
2) No, I'm trying to switch over to 9ov, but my brain is hardwired to automatically do 10+extractor trick. It will take me a few more days of practice to pound that in I'm sure.
3) Some people cheese, but far less than the US or EU servers (at least at the high levels). All my builds are designed to be able to stop the various cheeses you may see. There's a lot of thought put into my Overlord scouting patterns and spawning pool timings. Zealot timing push with +1 off of 1 base? Easy. I'll make roaches or a bunch of Spine Crawlers, matters the timing it comes out with. 7rax Reaper rushes are a total pain in the ass. I normally cancel my Hatchery, make some Roaches, and free-style from there (normally re-expanding).
4) I can't seem to remember exactly what happened in the early game on Steppes of War ZvZ, but I do recall the whole game overall quite well. I seem to recall I wanted a 100% victory, and felt that expanding, upgrading, and leaving no defensive holes, would lead to a sure win.
5) I had just switched over to Baneling play when I hit IdrA in that replay pack (was still trying to go Roaches before that). I figured I would probably lose it, but it would be a good learning experience.
You mentioned a roach into ultralisk style in your latest interview but that sounds pretty vulnerable to an immortal based play. Protoss should naturally build immortals upon seeing the roach base and that only helps his unit composition once you transition. Is it more of a hydra roach mix into ultralisks or straight on roach?
if you add some infestors with neural parasite into the mix, immortals should no longer be that much of a problem. Since roaches are so cheap compared to other units, you can easily afford infestors as many as needed.
Mixing in Hydras is a bit better IMO. Infestors are extremely gas heavy, and not exactly full-proof (any Colossuses or HT's with feedback can deal with them pretty fast.)
On June 14 2010 17:45 G5 wrote: asian replay packs... whats next? a black replay pack? how about a latino rep pack? i sure don't know but what i do know is that if i put out a white replay pack i would be considered a racist. fucking double standards.
Looking forward to watching all of them! Your previous pack helped me to start playing zerg.. at all in both sc:bw and sc2, that was probably the race I least understood and played. Now I find zerg so fun to play . Playing zerg helped me surprisingly much to improve my macto. Thank you!
On June 14 2010 18:06 Gunman_csz wrote: Ty Artosis, we all <3 your contribution, dedication and commitment to the game and the community. By the way can you force the other three foreigners beside you ( Idra, Tasteless, and Apollo) to release a replay pack as well ( A MEGA REPLAY pack of the 4 Dragons ^^).
Questions: 1.Can you compare and contrast your play-style to Idra. As you have told us many times that you guys discuss strategies together, does that mean you guys play the game in similar ways?
2. How do foreigner Zergs differ from Asian Zergs?
3. I believe you and Idra have experimented a lot vs mech, can you tell us what Is the best way to play vs Mech and Terran in general. what are the crucial timings/moments in the game.
haha, well, i guess they will probably release replays from time to time.
Answers: 1) Yeah, IdrA and I discuss strategy primarily with each other. We use a lot of the same builds/openings/strategies. We do not play exactly the same, though. I tend to prefer a bit more cleverness (ie, Roach burrow movement, and things like this), while he tends to prefer to just out-macro people and win straight up battles.
2) I actually don't watch too many Asian Zerg replays. Its hard to say exactly, but the Asian server, overall, seems to tend towards macro, and have better basics than the foriegners.
3) Vs a pure mech strategy, the best way is normally to defend with Roaches while trying to hit an air timing with mass Corrupters => Broodlord//Corrupter. There are a few other ways you can try to battle it, but nothing truly works vs a Terran who really knows how to do it. This way just seems to work best to IdrA and I.
On June 14 2010 18:34 InfiniteIce wrote: lol, are you guys seriously debating racism on replay packs? I'm 100% sure [G5] was making a joke.
That being said, I am also quite interested in the responses to GunMan's questions posted above. I think they are very good...especially contrasting the Asian server Zerg playstyle to other servers. My guess is a lot of focus on queens and fast hatch, contrasting vs NA server "IdrA" style tech/macro builds...but having never been able to play on the Asia server I'd love to hear Artosis' response on that
A few (simple) questions of my own...
1) Do you find a higher level of difficulty/competency of opponents on the Asia server? This is asked from the view of taking into account the variable playstyles between server "meshing" with your playstyle...so rather, as opposed to "is it harder for your build/playstyle on Asia", this question more or less refers to actually competency of opponents. Or do you see little difference?
1) b] Is there a bigger focus on either (or both, I suppose) macro/micro on Asia, compared to other servers?
2) Do you have a favorite matchup? In terms of fun, rather than "this is easy to win".
3) Do you have a favorite replay in the pack? ^^
aaaand finally... 4) Who has been your hardest opponent/series to date? Whether you won or lost.
1) Yes. The opponents on the Asian server, over all, are much more competent than elsewhere. Because of the amount of SC1 over here, everyone has a pretty good grasp of RTS basics, something that the foreigner scene has always struggled with.
1 b) I often times say that overall, the server macros better. Sure, thats pretty much true, but a lot of it comes from just knowing RTS basics pretty well. For instance, when to expand, when to add Gateways or Hatcheries or Barracks, that type of thing.
2) I LOVED ZvT before it became completely broken. The matchup was just so deep before mech got buffed to where it is now. I really hope we can get it back to how it was. ZvZ is complete garbage after the Roach nerf, so I hate that matchup now, so I guess that leaves me with ZvP. Can be pretty fun to be honest. Especially since I'm experimenting with Ultralisks so much.
3) Hm, not sure about a favorite, I guess I really liked some of my ZvPs in there. Especially the one on Blistering Sands, where I get 3 bases, macro hard while teching to Ultralisks, and barely hold off Colossus all-ins. Also, there's a ZvT in there on Steppes of War that I really enjoyed playing. He went Bio-Tank, and I went Roach/Baneling drops into Broodlords iirc. Really fun and invigorating game.
4) I think I've lost every single Asian tourny in the past 2 months to Banelings, so nothing is really sticking out. I think playing vs Maka is really hard and so fun, I think we are right about even right now (maybe 8-8 or so..). He doesn't go full-on mech, so is thus beatable and fun to play against (even tho Tanks still make his play imba lolz.)
On June 14 2010 19:09 Gunman_csz wrote: I have one more question. After watching Desert Oasis (4) replay, where the Terran opens with dual proxy barracks. It reminded me of one of the videos on scforall (you, idra, forzenarbiter) where talking about why pvt in BW was imbalance. One of the things frozenarbiter said was that because Protoss can proxy/cheeses and even if the cheese fails they can transition smoothly and without any consequence to mid/late game. So don't you think the same dynamic applies to TvZ?
I don't think it was FrozenArbiter, but...
TvZ is just too broken right now to comment on that, really. When a race has units that counter your tech paths so hard, of course they are going to be able to transition smoothly. Ask me this question again a couple of weeks after mech is nerfed again.
Okay, now i know you're probably going to yell at me, but i guess im very slow so i probably need step by step instructions. You don't have to though, just if anyone out of the kindness of their heart wants to deal with my slowness, i'll be much obliged.
Tried downloading the replays, unable to load map/crashed. So i installed the manager, and now i dont know what to do.
Hi, Artosis im a big fan of you and will admit it a die hard zerg fan. Ive played zerg and ONLY zerg for the entire beta so i have no idea how to play anyother races but ive come to notice that zerg is so macro intensive its rediculous so im wondering how I could switch to another race or atleast try another out. Currently its impossible for me to even begin to understand another race i dont know when to attack when to expand what counters work or anything. Even if i do the bos right i never seam to win. (one problem was i was trying to transition at platinum level) How do you suggest transitioning to a ore micro intensive race?
On June 15 2010 11:04 kzr22 wrote: Hi, Artosis im a big fan of you and will admit it a die hard zerg fan. Ive played zerg and ONLY zerg for the entire beta so i have no idea how to play anyother races but ive come to notice that zerg is so macro intensive its rediculous so im wondering how I could switch to another race or atleast try another out. Currently its impossible for me to even begin to understand another race i dont know when to attack when to expand what counters work or anything. Even if i do the bos right i never seam to win. (one problem was i was trying to transition at platinum level) How do you suggest transitioning to a ore micro intensive race?
BTW ty for the replays will probably stream them
you might think the other races are really more micro intensive, but i don't fully agree. spending your money is the most important thing in this game. i would just dive headfirst in and do your best. sure check out some replays for general strategies, but a macro-based approach will be best. you can learn the little micro-bits along the way.
1.It's been long time since last we saw Idra :D, When will you get a chance to interview him?. 2. Can you tell us how much has Apollo improved, is he able to games away from you and tasteless? 3.Who do you think are the top3 of each race in Asia (excluding you and Idra) 4. I see some pro-gamers (Sen) use heatlhbar always on, what do you use and why? 5. Do you have any inside news regarding OSL 2?
On June 15 2010 11:16 Gunman_csz wrote: 1.It's been long time since last we saw Idra :D, When will you get a chance to interview him?. 2. Can you tell us how much has Apollo improved, is he able to games away from you and tasteless? 3.Who do you think are the top3 of each race in Asia (excluding you and Idra) 4. I see some pro-gamers (Sen) use heatlhbar always on, what do you use and why? 5. Do you have any inside news regarding OSL 2?
1) Actually, I'm interviewing him about his OSL performance today
2) Right now I'm working with Apollo on the RTS basics (of economy-based RTS games), and I think he's improving quite well (but we haven't had the beta in a while T.T!) I haven't really played vs him yet though.
3) T: Maka, Ensnare, not sure. P: Tester, AnyPro, Spunky (not 100% sure if hes still taking the game seriously though.) Z: Cool, TheWinD, SEn
4) I have the health bars off. They cover up too much stuff, make the screen too cluttered. I like to be able to just glance at my screen and fully understand what I'm seeing instantly. I wish there was a button to toggle it on and off. Right now, I sometimes use ALT if I want to know healths of anything.
So, in the game you lost to WeRRa (on Kulas Ravine), it seems like the stalker harass from the cliffs is a big deal in allowing him to build up enough of a force to finally beat you. Do you think that kind of play should be a staple of PvZ (or even PvX) on that map, or do you think WeRRa was reacting to something specific he saw?
On June 15 2010 15:35 Artosis wrote: Kulas is perhaps the most imbalaced map in sc2. He didn't react or do anything special, just abused the map. that doesn't work anywhere else.
Pretty much forced to kill the rocks asap and just expo there, the natural on Kulas is so vulnerable. I use blink stalkers every game because of it but I'm seeing a lot of players just not expoing there anymore. If you do expo there I think maybe you need 2 spine crawlers at each of the two harassing spots very very early. With the shitty burrow time its like impossible to reposition them vs stalkers and I noticed you had a little trouble with that.
Anyway, as a Protoss player, you really make Ultras look scary haha. It's amazing how fast they tear through a Stalker/Colossi army, and once you get enough of them they don't seem to die.
ALSO your use of the Roach t2 upgrade looks very effective. Never realized burrowed Roaches can basically out regen a storm lol.
On June 15 2010 11:41 Artosis wrote: 4) I have the health bars off. They cover up too much stuff, make the screen too cluttered. I like to be able to just glance at my screen and fully understand what I'm seeing instantly. I wish there was a button to toggle it on and off. Right now, I sometimes use ALT if I want to know healths of anything.
Err, there was a hotkey to toggle this on and off, at least in replays. I guess they removed the hotkey for it in replays, too, now it's just a button... Lame. I find that alt is pretty convenient for my hands though.
Here's another (odd) question..
How do you position your hands on the keyboard? It's easy to see what sort of hotkeys you use in your replays, but do you stick with the homerow? (i.e....pinky finger =1qaz ring = 2wsx middle = 3edc and so on...) or do you have some other way you found more effective? (Do you even use an english style keyboard?! Lol)
On June 15 2010 15:40 LSGamer wrote: Can anyone else get .18 replays to work, it sends me to the apm chart an example being desert heat against tester :/
Earlier a guy mentions the same problem but didn't post how he got it to work, I'm on 4.1.1 too.
Btw, thanks a bunch for these, it's good to see some zerg replays!
.18 (patch 16) replays are not going with the manager at the moment to my knowledge. All replays before that will work, but I haven't heard a solution for playing Patch 16 reps.
Thanks for the replays, I wonder if you could share your thoughts about the standard set by blizzards maps, as in size, rush distance, how many patches of minerals there are at the main and expansions.
and if you have any spesifics as to what you would like to see in the future.
On June 15 2010 11:41 Artosis wrote: 4) I have the health bars off. They cover up too much stuff, make the screen too cluttered. I like to be able to just glance at my screen and fully understand what I'm seeing instantly. I wish there was a button to toggle it on and off. Right now, I sometimes use ALT if I want to know healths of anything.
Err, there was a hotkey to toggle this on and off, at least in replays. I guess they removed the hotkey for it in replays, too, now it's just a button... Lame. I find that alt is pretty convenient for my hands though.
Here's another (odd) question..
How do you position your hands on the keyboard? It's easy to see what sort of hotkeys you use in your replays, but do you stick with the homerow? (i.e....pinky finger =1qaz ring = 2wsx middle = 3edc and so on...) or do you have some other way you found more effective? (Do you even use an english style keyboard?! Lol)
i actually have a korean keyboard, but its the same thing.
in SC2 i use slightly different hand position than SC1.
pinky = CTRL ring = A middle = S pointer = D thumb = B/spacce bar
On June 15 2010 21:44 Madkipz wrote: Thanks for the replays, I wonder if you could share your thoughts about the standard set by blizzards maps, as in size, rush distance, how many patches of minerals there are at the main and expansions.
and if you have any spesifics as to what you would like to see in the future.
or is it to early to tell?
im actually writing a huge article on map balance and how it relates to zerg, i'll release part 1 this week.
Mr Artosis, I am sorry to inform that I have not watched your replays but, did you see the daily Day9 did on roach+queens vs ling-baneling -> muta vs dimaga? I only mention it because i've seen you saying ZvZ is boring baneling ling shit, but this is clearly a credible alternative. Check it out yo.
On June 15 2010 21:44 Madkipz wrote: Thanks for the replays, I wonder if you could share your thoughts about the standard set by blizzards maps, as in size, rush distance, how many patches of minerals there are at the main and expansions.
and if you have any spesifics as to what you would like to see in the future.
or is it to early to tell?
im actually writing a huge article on map balance and how it relates to zerg, i'll release part 1 this week.
On June 15 2010 21:44 Madkipz wrote: Thanks for the replays, I wonder if you could share your thoughts about the standard set by blizzards maps, as in size, rush distance, how many patches of minerals there are at the main and expansions.
and if you have any spesifics as to what you would like to see in the future.
or is it to early to tell?
im actually writing a huge article on map balance and how it relates to zerg, i'll release part 1 this week.
I totally am looking forward to this
definately something i am totally looking forward to read.
Thanks for taking the time to answer everyone's comments Artosis!
I have more question.
Do you find it difficult to mass games in SC2 as opposed to SC1? I.e. after playing 2-3 games of SC2 I feel spent and kind of frustrated as opposed to SC1 where I could play all day. Also, when I win it doesn't feel like an accomplishment as it did in SC1. Do you share similar views?
On June 15 2010 21:44 Madkipz wrote: Thanks for the replays, I wonder if you could share your thoughts about the standard set by blizzards maps, as in size, rush distance, how many patches of minerals there are at the main and expansions.
and if you have any spesifics as to what you would like to see in the future.
or is it to early to tell?
im actually writing a huge article on map balance and how it relates to zerg, i'll release part 1 this week.
I can see it now... "Zerg is extremely hard to play, the maps dont make it any better, but actually I'm ok with it, because I know im a better human being than anyone who doesnt play zerg."
I started using the roach/ultra build myself in ZvP after seeing a game or two on your stream. I definitely really like it. The only trouble I have is that really awkward timing when you are teching to hive/building ultra cave/making ultras. If they show up with colossi a little too early, I rarely can defend myself long enough to pop out the ultras.
Do you have any advice on how to time when a zerg player should tech hard for hive/ultras? My strategy was to rely on "feel," which doesn't always work. Thanks!
On June 15 2010 22:39 ddk wrote: Mr Artosis, I am sorry to inform that I have not watched your replays but, did you see the daily Day9 did on roach+queens vs ling-baneling -> muta vs dimaga? I only mention it because i've seen you saying ZvZ is boring baneling ling shit, but this is clearly a credible alternative. Check it out yo.
yes, i am very aware of this build. i've been practicing vs it in customs. jury is still out on it. also, its only usable on some maps. baneling garbage can be done everywhere.
On June 16 2010 00:19 StayFrosty wrote: Thanks for taking the time to answer everyone's comments Artosis!
I have more question.
Do you find it difficult to mass games in SC2 as opposed to SC1? I.e. after playing 2-3 games of SC2 I feel spent and kind of frustrated as opposed to SC1 where I could play all day. Also, when I win it doesn't feel like an accomplishment as it did in SC1. Do you share similar views?
no, i love to play all day long. SC2 is becoming more and more like SC1 at the top level.
On June 16 2010 01:23 shiftY803 wrote: I started using the roach/ultra build myself in ZvP after seeing a game or two on your stream. I definitely really like it. The only trouble I have is that really awkward timing when you are teching to hive/building ultra cave/making ultras. If they show up with colossi a little too early, I rarely can defend myself long enough to pop out the ultras.
Do you have any advice on how to time when a zerg player should tech hard for hive/ultras? My strategy was to rely on "feel," which doesn't always work. Thanks!
im still using feel, i need more games to get it exact.
On June 16 2010 08:19 TzTz wrote: What if the protoss responds to ultra/roach with 2 or more Robo => Immortals? They counter both pretty well. Any experiences with it?
you skip the ultras and go for hydra/ling support with your roaches.
Are Ultras worth getting now that they have the bonus to armor? I haven't seen any Husky or HD Zerg matches use Ultras yet. Thanks for uploading the replay pack.
On June 16 2010 08:42 -ReMeDy- wrote: Are Ultras worth getting now that they have the bonus to armor? I haven't seen any Husky or HD Zerg matches use Ultras yet. Thanks for uploading the replay pack.
They always had the bonus armor upgrade. They just get autospeed now. And it seems like they are worth getting. At least every ZvP i watched from the pack included going for them.
On June 16 2010 08:42 -ReMeDy- wrote: Are Ultras worth getting now that they have the bonus to armor? I haven't seen any Husky or HD Zerg matches use Ultras yet. Thanks for uploading the replay pack.
Ultras might be good vs Protoss in certain situations. Certainly not vs Zerg, and never vs a Terran who has Marauders (maybe never vs a Terran, but I'm not sure yet on that one.)
On June 16 2010 08:42 -ReMeDy- wrote: Are Ultras worth getting now that they have the bonus to armor? I haven't seen any Husky or HD Zerg matches use Ultras yet. Thanks for uploading the replay pack.
They always had the bonus armor upgrade. They just get autospeed now. And it seems like they are worth getting. At least every ZvP i watched from the pack included going for them.
I'm still not completely sure that was the best move I could have made, though. I like them, they are fun, and I'm experimenting with them. I still need a lot more games to see how good they actually are.
I wonder what your opinion on Queens is. Do you get one for every hatch or do you have a fixed number? It may depend on what the enemy throws at you (countering early banshee/voidray/muta) but I'm asking myself if the 4th 150mins and 2 supply are a good investment midgame...
Thank you so much for answering my previous questions :D
I have few more if you don't mind. 1. Will you be doing any instructional commentaries, like you used to do in sc1, hopefully something before the phase2 <3 .
2. You have extensive knowledge of how sc1 pro-gamers train. So with your experience and knowledge what are the some of the things you think the Koreans are doing right, and some of the things they are doing wrong. For example after seeing Idra perform so well in the OSL qualifier, and Gregs comment about excessive training schedule and its negative effects,
3. I was wondering what is then perhaps the best way to train and improve to get good results.How do you personally train/improve? What are things you like to do. Forexample I know some people like divide their time between different things. They will ladder for an hour, play few custom games, watch their own replays, watch replays of pro-gamers, watch some stream. (Rinse and repeat these day-in and day-out)
4. Do you watch your own replays? If so: A. Do you do it directly after the game (so you can take notes), Or is their certain part of the day, Or you just watch them randomly?
B. Do you analyze both winning and defeated games? Or just the ones where you lost?
5. What are your thoughts on the current ladder map pool? and Which of them do you think are Zerg favored, neutral, and truly not winnable as zerg.
6. Have you played on SC1 conversion maps on SC2 yet? Do you think SC1 style of maps will work well on SC2, (ie, Destination, fighting spirit, extra)?
I've only had time to watch the first 6 or 7 games so far, but I'm very impressed with how you used Ultras to combat the Colossus. I wasn't paying attention the first time I saw it on Blisstering Sands, and thought "man, those stalkers and colossi are gonna rape those lings, roaches, and......ultras?! wtf!"
Thanks for the replays artosis. I watched all the vods interviews you did, and they are really great !
But is it possible to do the interviews in quieter environments. Because most of the times you are in some café or restaurant with background music, people entering and exiting, talking, so heavy background noise that can really be annoying and take away some of the enjoyment of listening to your interviews !
I'll be honest, I really dont have the time to read through all these posts. But, I was wondering if you had a set of games (say maybe 5) you would like to see cast from this series.
Hopefully 1-2 where you lose so we can talk about the mistakes etc etc. I'd love to cast some of these games!
On June 17 2010 01:52 Turbo.Tactics wrote: Greetings Artosis!
I wonder what your opinion on Queens is. Do you get one for every hatch or do you have a fixed number? It may depend on what the enemy throws at you (countering early banshee/voidray/muta) but I'm asking myself if the 4th 150mins and 2 supply are a good investment midgame...
I get one per hatch. Yes I get extras to defend certain stuff, and infact sometimes to just spread creep real fast and or heal broodlords. I'm liking them more and more lately.
On June 17 2010 02:37 Gunman_csz wrote: Thank you so much for answering my previous questions :D
I have few more if you don't mind. 1. Will you be doing any instructional commentaries, like you used to do in sc1, hopefully something before the phase2 <3 .
2. You have extensive knowledge of how sc1 pro-gamers train. So with your experience and knowledge what are the some of the things you think the Koreans are doing right, and some of the things they are doing wrong. For example after seeing Idra perform so well in the OSL qualifier, and Gregs comment about excessive training schedule and its negative effects,
3. I was wondering what is then perhaps the best way to train and improve to get good results.How do you personally train/improve? What are things you like to do. Forexample I know some people like divide their time between different things. They will ladder for an hour, play few custom games, watch their own replays, watch replays of pro-gamers, watch some stream. (Rinse and repeat these day-in and day-out)
4. Do you watch your own replays? If so: A. Do you do it directly after the game (so you can take notes), Or is their certain part of the day, Or you just watch them randomly?
B. Do you analyze both winning and defeated games? Or just the ones where you lost?
5. What are your thoughts on the current ladder map pool? and Which of them do you think are Zerg favored, neutral, and truly not winnable as zerg.
6. Have you played on SC1 conversion maps on SC2 yet? Do you think SC1 style of maps will work well on SC2, (ie, Destination, fighting spirit, extra)?
np's.
1) Yes, I have some plans like that, but not before phase 2. Infact, probably not until release.
2) They train harder than anyone else, by far, and all live together. Both those things are done right. Of course, if they had some more time off, and the correct mentality for something like that, it would be better. The train "too much" but its way better than not enough.
3) You have to figure out what's best for you. Some really important things that people don't do enough include discussing the game and reading everything in sight. Playing a ton is important too, but you have to be mindful as you play.
4) Sometimes. I should do it more than I do. Normally I just know what went wrong without watching it, though watching it may reveal some other weaknesses in my play as well. A) I watch them randomly when I do 99% of the time. Often times I'll make a mental note to watch a certain game later. B) I almost never watch my winning replays.
5) I'm writing a huge article on this, I'll release part 1 today hopefully.
6) I haven't yet, but I'm willing to bet that they will be far better than the current map pool.
On June 17 2010 08:45 Anfere wrote: Thanks for the replays artosis. I watched all the vods interviews you did, and they are really great !
But is it possible to do the interviews in quieter environments. Because most of the times you are in some café or restaurant with background music, people entering and exiting, talking, so heavy background noise that can really be annoying and take away some of the enjoyment of listening to your interviews !
thanks to community donations, i'll have a quality camera with microphone starting next week, and all my interviews will look + sound a lot better, regardless of where I do them.
On June 17 2010 08:47 HuskyTheHusky wrote: Hey Artosis,
I'll be honest, I really dont have the time to read through all these posts. But, I was wondering if you had a set of games (say maybe 5) you would like to see cast from this series.
Hopefully 1-2 where you lose so we can talk about the mistakes etc etc. I'd love to cast some of these games!
I think that my ZvT game on Steppes of War where I go Roach/Baneling/Ling + drops vs a bio-tank army is one of the coolest/funnest games so far, really shows the imbalance of Terran. There are also some cool ZvPs in there where I use Ultra/Roach a lot. I guess those would be best.
Yeah man, I think I watched the game you were talking about last night. Would be cool to see a cast.
Mass marine with tank support style seems very big in Korea. That an accurate statement? Baneling/overlord drop seems to be the "counter," but I haven't found alot of games where roach/ling/bling results in a win for Z. I feel like muta/ling/bling isn't a viable option unless they are mixing in a significant number of marauders too, but roaches just melt so fast to tanks before the blings can clean up the marines.
Any general thoughts versus the korean biomech style?
On June 19 2010 02:47 shiftY803 wrote: Yeah man, I think I watched the game you were talking about last night. Would be cool to see a cast.
Mass marine with tank support style seems very big in Korea. That an accurate statement? Baneling/overlord drop seems to be the "counter," but I haven't found alot of games where roach/ling/bling results in a win for Z. I feel like muta/ling/bling isn't a viable option unless they are mixing in a significant number of marauders too, but roaches just melt so fast to tanks before the blings can clean up the marines.
Any general thoughts versus the korean biomech style?
Yes, its very popular amongst the Korean Terrans. Of course, Roaches do melt too fast, Tanks are far too strong right now. The Korean biomech style is very very strong, but really, anything with Siege Tanks is very very strong right now.
Artosis, very interesting replays, I have just finished watching them all.
I am curious, you keep talking about Terran mech but now when watching these replays I can't see that you are having any problems with the mech at all. The burrow roaches + doom bling drops in the tank lines really impressed me, and the ultras and infestor play worked out well aswell. I find it very interesting to watch a Zerg trying and being able to break down the pretty tough mech line, so from a spectator point of view I would not want to nerf mech more.
Do you really think the tank needs even less than 50 damage? The problem with nerfing mech more is the risk of Terrans going more bio against Zerg, and because the Marauder is such a boring unit, this could be bad from a spectator point of view.
Instead, look at the Protoss a1ffff Collossi/Sentry/Stalker ball. When they face a maxed Zerg the P does not require any skill whatsoever (when the clash do occur) to completely destroy the Zerg. From a spectator point of view, this clash is really uninteresting, since if the Protoss does not do major major mistakes in pressing a1ffff while the Zerg have to have perfect control, the P will wipe out every Z force on the field. Don't you believe this to be a problem esports-vice? (since in SC1 the maxed P had to have similar skill to the Zerg, when the clash occured, to be able to defeat him)
Hey people, seeing that Artosis released this replay pack and that so many were having trouble viewing them (being patch 15), I decided to start my illustrious commentating career with a few of them selected at random.
If you have any tips for me, reply in the youtube comments or this thread. I am experimenting with different commentating styles at the moment. All videos are available in 720p HD (not 1080p though).
On June 20 2010 01:09 HowardRoark wrote: Artosis, very interesting replays, I have just finished watching them all.
I am curious, you keep talking about Terran mech but now when watching these replays I can't see that you are having any problems with the mech at all. The burrow roaches + doom bling drops in the tank lines really impressed me, and the ultras and infestor play worked out well aswell. I find it very interesting to watch a Zerg trying and being able to break down the pretty tough mech line, so from a spectator point of view I would not want to nerf mech more.
Do you really think the tank needs even less than 50 damage? The problem with nerfing mech more is the risk of Terrans going more bio against Zerg, and because the Marauder is such a boring unit, this could be bad from a spectator point of view.
Instead, look at the Protoss a1ffff Collossi/Sentry/Stalker ball. When they face a maxed Zerg the P does not require any skill whatsoever (when the clash do occur) to completely destroy the Zerg. From a spectator point of view, this clash is really uninteresting, since if the Protoss does not do major major mistakes in pressing a1ffff while the Zerg have to have perfect control, the P will wipe out every Z force on the field. Don't you believe this to be a problem esports-vice? (since in SC1 the maxed P had to have similar skill to the Zerg, when the clash occured, to be able to defeat him)
I think I didn't play vs pure mech very much in that replay pack. Most Terrans on the Asian server play Bio-mech builds. The mech players I did beat in the pack, I was about 500x better than. Giving a Tank less damage isn't the right way to nerf it. Let it overkill. I think most everyone agrees with that.
I don't have big problems with ZvP right now like you are describing, other than the 2 base Colossus timing attack / threat of 2 base Colossus timing attack.
On June 21 2010 12:06 Johnny_Vegas wrote: Hey people, seeing that Artosis released this replay pack and that so many were having trouble viewing them (being patch 15), I decided to start my illustrious commentating career with a few of them selected at random.
If you have any tips for me, reply in the youtube comments or this thread. I am experimenting with different commentating styles at the moment. All videos are available in 720p HD (not 1080p though).
Why does Johnny_Vegas sound like some kind of elvis impersonator?
PS: BR.com was probably my favorite site on the internet ten years ago when I still had dial up. I was also 14 then and flamed a bunch of people for not liking my report. Awesome site.
Why does Johnny_Vegas sound like some kind of elvis impersonator?
Really? Oh man, I have so many voices I can hardly keep them straight... When I have a microphone in front of me I can't help myself, its like a vocal smorgasboard waiting to be devoured.
Can't freaking wait to see Day[9] talk about you'r replay's and play style man!
Hey, I know you'r playing SC2 pretty seriously and you may have commented on this already but what are you'r plans as far as e-sports? More commentating, or are you going to try to become competitive on a higher level than small tournaments when the game comes out? I hope to see you dominating in the near future.
hmmm... I checked about 7 to 8 from the pack out but I think I got all duds as they seemed to lack any top play from opponent, half end too soon with just speed lings or banelings. I'd expect the Asians to know how to hold these especially with idle sentry or holding units on ramp which didn't happen.... Lots of weird play which just didn't seem to make much sense and continued to look amateurish I question how this pack was put together....Last one I just watched had Artosis building a nydus worm in base, he uses it to pop at corner of desert but very soon after he picks 60 roaches up in ovilords and begins to fly towards opponents base... Is there something wrong with the nydus approach? the opponent also pushes out with non critical mass tanks and obviously dies to it, oppent expo's on 17 max's out with 30 scv's and supply blocks himself also doesn't know how to do timings on thor drop... yet game lasts 25 mins..... just not the play I was looking for, something seems wrong, I don't really want to waste any more time sorting through these to try and find a gem... has anyone found a good one or is my SC2Manager corrupting the game or even replacing the real one with a fake game?
just not the play I was looking for, something seems wrong, I don't really want to waste any more time sorting through these to try and find a gem... has anyone found a good one or is my SC2Manager corrupting the game or even replacing the real one with a fake game?
The game on Kulas vs this werra-guy protoss was kinda awful to watch as a zerg player... (adds to the map thread perfectly) So you might find that entertaining/educating if you are a cheesy toss.
In general you can see mistakes pretty much in every replayon the market right now, not just artys replay pack. I do agree that some of the replays are pretty crazy but there may be more thought put into this crazyness than I put into it.
There is no omniscientgamer, even though some may feel like it from watching too many replays/opening TL threads/cheesing through ladder.
I did a VOD of the game versus "Disruptor" on Metalopolis, but have yet to upload it. It has an extremely boring 10 minute mid-game stretch that I edited it out and replaced it with a new version of it on x6 speed. I also dubbed the sound of crickets at night over that part of the game. The interesting part of the game is that Artosis makes a ton of ultras, but it was pretty one sided.
Does anybody know of any really good replays in this pack? Even the ones on the D9D were against pretty terrible players who didn't spend their minerals, etc. They didn't feel useful.