It was just a bug, live with it or quit SC2.
Have u even considerd reading the OPs write up?
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ch4ppi
Germany802 Posts
It was just a bug, live with it or quit SC2. Have u even considerd reading the OPs write up? | ||
HungShark
United States134 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:42 MrCon wrote:What I find disturbing is that blizz just throws up a significant nerf just like that. I really though that the ultrabug was ridiculous and couldn't understand how some people could deny it. Same thing here, how can they nerf that in a bug fix patch ? Don't they test anything ? Zerg needs some buffs, a new unit or a major new thing imo already, and they put a nerf ? I'm really stunned. I hope they'll aknowledge it's a bug and rerefix it. Quoted for truth. This lackadaisical approach to "fixing" bugs is indeed very disturbing. | ||
JJdawes
United States6 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:42 MrCon wrote: To be honest zerglings are destroying thors already, so the problem isn't really that (unless I'm missing something) What I find disturbing is that blizz just throws up a significant nerf just like that. I really though that the ultrabug was ridiculous and couldn't understand how some people could deny it. Same thing here, how can they nerf that in a bug fix patch ? Don't they test anything ? Zerg needs some buffs, a new unit or a major new thing imo already, and they put a nerf ? I'm really stunned. I hope they'll aknowledge it's a bug and rerefix it. Ultra with the "bug" is about as balanced as the mule is right now. So I would love to see the Mule "fixed" too. | ||
CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:29 ffdestiny wrote: SC2 Ultra: Cleave damage and +15 base damage (20 to armored) -100 less HP +15 seconds increased build time +100 more minerals to train +2 more supply It does +20 damage to armored, so its 35 and it has 100 more hp (well, you had that right in the beginning) and only takes 10 seconds longer to build (70 to 60 seconds). | ||
dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
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MoreFaSho
United States1427 Posts
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:42 JJdawes wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2010 04:39 JinDesu wrote: On September 29 2010 04:36 JJdawes wrote: On September 29 2010 03:13 Jaeger wrote: Doesn't it make sense for thors to beat ultras? Thors do high damage vs single targets which makes them ideally suited for taking on high health high armor targets (i.e. ultralisks). Cost is the same and it takes a very long time to mass thors as they have to be built is series where as ultras can be built in parallel. If you scout mass thor, or mech as a whole isn't the natural end game tech broodlords? Wait so the Thor that COST the same as the ultra should be able to own it, and attack air at 10 range with AoE, while being repaired lol.... Are you kidding me? tell me please what Z is supposed to do now? I would love to hear this coming from a Terran or Protoss player I need the laughs now since Z is still getting nerfed and it's the worse race in the game. Don't forget it comes out like, way faster. lol yeah there has been so many games ive lost waiting on the 70sec build time to complete... Everything about Z is just sad. Not just the unit build time - the tech tree. Unfortunately, that's just a case of circumstance. Terran needs Thor early on to deal with mutas. Zerg cannot get Ultras earlier because that is broken. =\ | ||
a176
Canada6688 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:03 Atticus.axl wrote: Alright, as a zerg that started playing in 1999, I'll throw in my old-timer thoughts. Also, before I begin, I would take it as a kindness if you did not immediately dismiss the content simply because SC2 is a "different game." In SC, as well as Broodwar, there was a very specific reason the Ultralisk was a solid and viable unit against both T and P. It was not definitely not splash damage, as the Ultra would only ever hit a single target. The reason the Ultralisk was good was that it had survivability. With the Ultralisk in SC2 able to evaporate in 2 seconds to nearly every unit composition, it is almost detrimental to tech to them, much less produce them. Splash damage is not the answer here. Making the Ultralisk a unit that can take the hits from the front line, and let the lings and everything else get in close unharmed, would not only make it a worthwhile unit, but would help bring that "swarmy" feeling back to the zerg. I realize there are a hundred other factors that play into this, (i.e., map size, unit size, chokes, ability to surround etc...) but I'm trying to be concise. Edit: added an "and" i kept trying to convince myself of a way to play the ultralisk like its been designed from BW as well, an HP tank in its purest form, and still to this day, I too cannot find its place in SC2 as an HP tank or as an offensive unit either. At high level play they are so cost ineffective, they just don't belong in the tech tree. They melt so quickly to competent players who know the counters and how to abuse them. It seems we've once again come full circle, as in the beta with Blizzard desperately trying to figure out the Zerg race. Its come to the point where I find it insulting that people will continue to praise the development who obviously have no idea what they're doing. The previous posts in this thread asking why these "bugs" were even allowed into the patch, and then completely changing the mechanic itself in the subsequent "fix", is just another nail in the coffin from the clusterfuck that has been zerg "balancing" throughout the entirety of SC2's development. | ||
FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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CrazedManiac
40 Posts
In SC2, ultra + ling works because your lings tank damage/act as cannon fodder/do a little extra DPS while your ultras absolutely annihilate everything on the ground. And you can freeze units in place with FG. An ultralisk splash nerf really, really hurts a unit whose role is to do damage (and not necessarily tank it). | ||
Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:42 MrCon wrote: You're missing the part where terran has 5 pre-igniter hellions behind his thors.To be honest zerglings are destroying thors already, so the problem isn't really that (unless I'm missing something) | ||
PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:17 Winter_mute wrote: Just another reason not to get ultras. Seeing them do their ridiculous ultra dance and not even reaching their target, makes me swear in 5 languages. As an avid ultra user (every matchup about 80% of games), ultras don't "dance" in groups of 3. send them three at a time from each angle. (this means no more than 12 ultras attacking a group until its large enough to have 24 attacking) | ||
blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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Amadi
Finland139 Posts
I mean.. Zerg is supposed to be teh sucks, rait? | ||
Heavy Note
11 Posts
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ch4ppi
Germany802 Posts
why should ultralisks hard counter thors? They arent supposed to hardcounter Thors, and they NEVER did. They are a solid answer to Thor..sorry they WERE a solid answer to thors. | ||
DTown
United States428 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:03 Heavy Note wrote: why should ultralisks hard counter thors? they are even in food, mineral and gas count, doesn't make sense. Your right. Zerg should not have a counter to the Thor, apparently Blizz agrees. Congrats. | ||
SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:14 HiHiByeBye wrote: hmmm if you watch GSL game 3 cool vs top Top had about 10-11 thors? and it died to about 7 ultras and cool only lost maybe 1 ultra? and that is balanced? terran had no counter to ultras from the ground. Now they are more on even grounds. Zerglings are so cost effective vs thors. Now zerg is forced to have a unit mix instead of just winning by massing ultras and zergs are crying about this? Whahuh? Ultras get DESTROYED by marauder/marine mix with medivac support. And a few infernal preigniter hellions can exterminate any number of zerglings. It's absolute RAPE it's so one-sided. It's like playing Jenga where your opponent can choose his own blocks as well as the ones you have to remove. Completely unfair. Now ultras aren't even effective. Thor/Hellion becomes just another unit composition that requires infestors and tons of micro to scout, position, and cast at the right times so you can overcome your opponent. Meanwhile terran just has to move out with his hellions, thors, and a handful of scvs on autorepair. What micro is needed for that? You don't even have to lift and replace add-ons in that build. It's a joke. And that's assuming you scout correctly. What if you go down a completely incorrect tech path, end up with a spire instead of an infestation pit, or an infestation pit and ultra den but no infestors or pathogen glands? It's easy enough to do, terran has so many options with so few buildings that a rax 2fact and a starport could mean anything from hellion/tank drops to marine tank viking to marauder hellion preigniter to all-out mech play. Bottom line is ultras were designed to hard counter heavy mech units, and that's what they did, but now they are useless at even doing that. And you think that's a good thing? So tell me, would you consider it good if ghost EMP was removed so they couldn't counter infestor/HT anymore? Or if the immortal was changed to only do 20 damage to armored targets? Or if tank splash was changed to hit completely random spots in the target area and possibly missing entirely (cause it's unrealistic that tanks hit their target every time)? No, that would be stupid, because it interferes with the basic design of each race that gives the game balance. Zerglings can't kill a critical mass of hellions because hellions were designed to hard counter zerglings, just like mass thors used to not be able to kill ultras because ultras were designed to counter heavy mech. Zerglings should not be able to destroy hellions easily, just like thors should not be able to destroy ultras. Yet now that is exactly the situation that has evolved. | ||
Lunares
United States909 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:06 SugarBear wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2010 00:14 HiHiByeBye wrote: hmmm if you watch GSL game 3 cool vs top Top had about 10-11 thors? and it died to about 7 ultras and cool only lost maybe 1 ultra? and that is balanced? terran had no counter to ultras from the ground. Now they are more on even grounds. Zerglings are so cost effective vs thors. Now zerg is forced to have a unit mix instead of just winning by massing ultras and zergs are crying about this? Whahuh? Ultras get DESTROYED by marauder/marine mix with medivac support. And a few infernal preigniter hellions can exterminate any number of zerglings. It's absolute RAPE it's so one-sided. It's like playing Jenga where your opponent can choose his own blocks as well as the ones you have to remove. Completely unfair. Now ultras aren't even effective. Thor/Hellion becomes just another unit composition that requires infestors and tons of micro to scout, position, and cast at the right times so you can overcome your opponent. Meanwhile terran just has to move out with his hellions, thors, and a handful of scvs on autorepair. What micro is needed for that? You don't even have to lift and replace add-ons in that build. It's a joke. And that's assuming you scout correctly. What if you go down a completely incorrect tech path, end up with a spire instead of an infestation pit, or an infestation pit and ultra den but no infestors or pathogen glands? It's easy enough to do, terran has so many options with so few buildings that a rax 2fact and a starport could mean anything from hellion/tank drops to marine tank viking to marauder hellion preigniter to all-out mech play. Bottom line is ultras were designed to hard counter heavy mech units, and that's what they did, but now they are useless at even doing that. And you think that's a good thing? So tell me, would you consider it good if ghost EMP was removed so they couldn't counter infestor/HT anymore? Or if the immortal was changed to only do 20 damage to armored targets? Or if tank splash was changed to hit completely random spots in the target area and possibly missing entirely (cause it's unrealistic that tanks hit their target every time)? No, that would be stupid, because it interferes with the basic design of each race that gives the game balance. Zerglings can't kill a critical mass of hellions because hellions were designed to hard counter zerglings, just like mass thors used to not be able to kill ultras because ultras were designed to counter heavy mech. Zerglings should not be able to destroy hellions easily, just like thors should not be able to destroy ultras. Yet now that is exactly the situation that has evolved. Ultralisks do not get destroyed by marauder/marine ball as long as you fungal it so they can't kite your ultras. Mix in banelings to slaughter marines and some zerglings to be fodder, hydra to take out medivacs and you can win. | ||
Patrio
Norway706 Posts
On September 29 2010 05:03 Heavy Note wrote: why should ultralisks hard counter thors? they are even in food, mineral and gas count, doesn't make sense. Kind of funny that thors, who is mainly used as anti air, is better at ground then zergs highest tech unit that only has melee ground to ground attack and costs the same dont you think? | ||
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