Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button.
that this op is necessary and this warning above it is necessary too shows the current state of the most sc2 sites. People start to loose focus on the game an turn this and many other game related site random internet bashing forums. @op i total agree that this is a behaviour that you can not tolerate. I total agree to fight against it. About all the twitter fight: i don't care! Its really sad that it comes so far that you must come here and explain it. @Sithril this is not how a forum works. But i can understand you....
PS: i think its the best if i stop reading and posting in any not 100% game related threads. Edit : when i think over it: its the best if i just read the game news and stop posting here at all ...
On July 22 2011 06:51 protheros wrote: Ok, I love you Jessica but I have to write this.
The exact moment you signed Eve into Starcraft 2 team this sort of reaction should be expected. It is a male predominant e-sport, no one was surprised to hear the things that were said, except you. The moment you start trying to fight it, is the moment it starts getting out of hand. And you did just that.
It could have been a reasonably calm arrival of Eve into the Slayers team, and hopefully, a calm, steady entering of the other sex into the pro scene. Instead, it turned into something like this, I am quite disappointed in the way it was handled.
I am curious as to what you think was badly handled by SlayerS and how you would have done it better .... ? SCII being a male predominant 'e-sport' does not or should not automatically entail that any female player brought into a pro team should be the victim of such hate
And guys, you know how good it would be for esports to have a great female professional gamer? This would bring in crazy amounts of media. This is the first SC2 girl with good training conditions, she showed potential by winning an amateur tourney and diamond in S. Korea is quite good. Hope she succeeeds and does well, it would be revolutionary.
And she wouldnt be in the team if she wasnt ready to work very hard. It says something if slayers sees potential in you..
Amazing post Great title. Always been a Slayers Fan and Its really cool that they can see the good posts that are made about boxer and eve and not just the trolls being stupid for the sake of being stupid.
On July 22 2011 05:59 carloselcoco wrote: Everyone who is mad because Jessica selected Eve must be gay! Who does not want to see female pro-gamers!! 0.o I am loving the initiative and people should stop flaming that she was only selected because she was a girl. Why? Because Jessica said it herself that it was because she was a girl! Jessica wants to see women in SC2 and so do I! So, unless you are gay, you should stop complaining about this...
This is part of the problem though. You are only happy to see Eve on the team because of her sexuality ("otherwise you must be gay"), and nothing more. If her sexuality is what leads you to give her a positive reaction, you can't be surprised that others attack her based on her sexuality.
It should either be respect her as a player, not a sexual creature, or not be surprised she is being targeted for her gender. Can't have it both ways.
The problem with gender started way before this though. Female gamers get obscene amounts of crap every time they place a game. Socially ostracized and verbally abused because they are different from the "norm". Every single game is like this, so it is understandable that the talent pool for female gamers is not a profound and that of male gamers. The segregation happened a long time ago. Unless someone steps up and takes a chance, the cycle will continue and male gamers will be overwhelmingly if not the only professional gamers around.
Bringing on Eve is hopefully the first of many and is (as I see it) a kind of olive branch to other females to become more involved in eSports. Provide a tangible goal through the abuse and taunts that IS disproportionately thrown at them and perhaps steadily make females less and less "closet gamers".
Her gender is indeed (sadly) a central focus here, you are right, but instead of taking it as giving massive group of people a chance to shine, many cynically see it in a shallow sexual manner. Normally we rarely see or give a game about the gender divide in gaming, Jessica brought it to the forefront and it willing to do something about it instead of letting it remain the status quo.
Hopefully there will be enough ambitious women playing SC2 and other games that they can have the luxury of selecting them purely on merit and skill, but right now that is only a small facet of the issue here. The larger issue is finding a girl willing to stand up publicly and call herself and aspiring pro-gamer without being target and disproportionately abused by the general public. Eve is once such female and instead of backing down Jessica and SlayerS is helping her forward in the face of this prejudice. (Which looking through a lot of the posts, there definitely is in the community).
Even if Eve showed up as the super hyper Gosu bonjwa of bonjwa's, the community at large would STILL have given her abuse and taunts for being a girl in gaming. Perhaps Jessica could have handled things slightly differently with regards to the GSTL, everything is better in hind-sight, but the public's reaction while semi-expected is still unacceptable. Which is why overall I support her decision to not back down to the trolls on this one.
Isn't there someone who plays sc1 and not a male... and doesn't get any of the abuse that you so claim... unfortunate that she couldn't qualify again...supposedly met jangbi or so...
there's no difference... not like this crude matter... only different in your mind...
hope they do well in the future and possibly not overreact to something insignificant...
On July 22 2011 06:45 Loodah wrote: I really appreciate you coming here and posting this. I'm a huge fan of SlayerS, and I always support you guys.
However, I must respectfully disagree with the decision. I am not here to disrespect Eve or SlayerS- but I will say that I have a fundamental problem if she is being paid a salary - The reason this is fundamentally wrong is because there are males who are working probably twice as hard as her and not getting money out of it. As far as research shows, there are not disabilities for girls in terms of Starcraft 2 ability as there are in many physical sports - so they should be expected to compete at the highest level against males.
How do you know how hard she is working? She could be busting her ass, man. You don't know.
And the fact that the usually physical differences don't apply here is precisely why this is a good idea. Women are underrepresented in esports to a degree that is probably unmatched in any other form of competition excluding dick measuring contests. If they are equals physically, then they just need the opportunity to excel, to get involved.
Now, look at the response that the esports "community" has given Eve. Doesn't it seem like maybe women could use a little help in the face of that?
This is a fantastic move, both the bringing in of SlayerS_Eve and bringing the hammer down on the punks harassing her (I say their punishment should be 10 minutes in a steel cage with SlayerS_Jessica).
Firstly whoever said you have poor einglish is incorrect. I like how your willing to come on here and say your side of all this and I for one think it's awesome to get more females involved in esports we don't see enough of it, hopefully this is one of many pioneers. As someone that has experenced bullying over a long period of time I find it disgraceful to see this community do what it has we should be above this criticism is one thing but some of this went way to far.
I don't know everything that occurred surrounding the Eve case, yet reading some of the things you described (e.g. the photoshopping) you are definitely doing a good thing trying protecting your players from some of the abuse & harassment. I'm personally quite used to some people being their 'charming' selves (flaming/hating/trolling) on the internet from time to time and people usually just ignore it (probably culturally different in South Korea where it is taken more seriously), but when it starts to become systematic abuse things can go too far.
Also I don't understand why some people stigmatize Eve / Slayers team so much for recruiting a diamond level female player. I don't think that they 'owe' anyone else a contract instead of her because they 'deserve' it, in a context like this the team management has the right to recruit anyone they want as long as they think they will be a good addition to the team, by their own criteria, not that of others.
Prosperity to you and the members of Slayers, and I'll be looking forward to see Boxer (edit: and MMA!) play at Anaheim :-]
Lol I'm pretty sure the dude that made the reference to "gay" was just doing it for some light comic relied. Don't get panty-bunched over it - he's obviously not "discriminating".
Anyway, to the point, I think it's important to realize that Korean cultural values and attitudes differ from those of "the western world" to some varying degrees, so don't be quick to assume Jessica is being irrational. As some have alluded to here, much of her "overreaction" is justified under a different social lens - one to which we are not accustomed (the majority of us, anyway)
i respect slayers so much for trying to evolve esports further. such a massive step, and some people just weren't ready for it.
and after this statement by Jessica, i respect them even further. boxer basically made esports, and now Jessica and him are trying to grow female esports. mad mad respect for all of you at Slayers, and best of luck with it. hopefully the idiot misogynist males haven't damaged the chances of a good female SC2 scene! (the backlash on Eve is the only example i've seen so far of people literally ruining esports)
It's sad that so many people showed disrespect. Jessica deserves the same respect any gamer deserves, and it's remarkable to be so determined in a mostly male scene. She is very lucky to have SlayerS helping her and the female gamers.
Some people went way too far and disrespected Eve tremendously, yet please understand the frustration of the gamers who are high masters and even grandmasters and who can't get into a minor sponsored team in america or europe. I understand they are disappointed to see a diamond player have such an opportunity and not them. That doesn't give them ANY RIGHT to be disrespectful, but I am still convinced a lot of the frustration displayed in the community comes from that fact.
Women in sc2 esports has always been an issue here on tl, with female only tournaments getting slandered and such. The argument is always the same: "it should be based purely on skill and not gender etc." The point of female only cups and recruiting female players, even if less skilled than male players, isn't just to have the best players possible; it's to promote esports - especially for women. I, in no way, feel that this is a bad thing at all and don't really understand why many males are so against it. If you have a problem with it, just ignore it then, live your life enjoying the things you do enjoy. This is an issue in the western world, I can't imagine how bad it is in Korea, especially with their attitude towards people in the spotlight. It's really sad that, in Korea, celebrities lose their careers over scandals and on more than one occasion, the celebrities (especially women) involved in scandals have committed suicide and it's really all due to the negative netizen/fan reactions along with the new image that is put on them.
I hope people stop with the abuse and that Jessica and Eve aren't too affected by it and keep on doing what they're doing. I want esports to get bigger and better and having women like Kim Ga Yun and Eve in it only helps that.
that is probably a good lesson for everybody to not jump to conclusions based on one side, always here out every side to it .
besides that i am sad about the boxer part. even thou he is not winning he is still a charming esports person who gives inspiration for older players like me. he should be cheered on by everyone, hail limterran <33
The only thing I have an issue with here is claiming that girls have a harder time playing against men in Starcraft2. Given an equal amount of training, girls can easily hold their own against men. After all, women are better at multitasking, and what is starcraft 2 pro gaming, if not multi tasking? Hell, I know many women who could beat me at this game!
To hell with the cyber bullies, though.
edit - to clarify, I understand the arguments for exposure to female e-sports, thus exposing esports as a whole, thus benefiting esports as a whole, but I still find the whole notion rather silly. I guess it's just down to the natural gender bias in video games as a whole.
Man, its fucking sad to see awsome people like Jessica be the victing of the trolling/retards way, that has been build up in the digital world in the west. It seems, that people from the east are not used to this ammount of retardness, and actully takes it serious. Sigh. Honestly, i hope that the obvious retards, that shows up on TL starts getting permabanned, cause this is a disgrace of TL, the west, hell,,, almost humanity.
Its like that cyberbullying movie all over again, again.
This reminds of the story where a poor man eats his rice near a fancy restaurant, so he can enjoy the smell of the food coming from the restaurant despite his meal being only lame rice. The owner of the restaurants freaks out and sues him for "stealing" the smell of his food.
The judge settles the case by forcing the man to pay the restaurant owner, with the sound of his coins.
Way to get things out of proportion. Also, sex crime??? rofl
Between this thread and the Puma thread, I'm fucking worn out by all this drama.
I don't agree with Jessica's decision to recruit Eve the way she did, as it smacks of sexism. Well-intentioned sexism, but sexism nonetheless.
However, that being said, I wish both Jessica and Eve - and all of SlayerS - the best of luck in the future, and I will continue to cheer for their members and their success. What's been done has been done already; the only thing left is damage control, and for my part, I sincerely applaud Jessica for her decision to stand up to all the cyberbullies out there.