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On August 07 2011 01:13 SecondChance wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 00:50 Jacko11 wrote: Its nothing that hasn't already been said by many others. No one wants another SCBW skill gap. This. Voiced by so many others so many times. Commentator mentions it in part of an interview? Topicworthy.
It's just a piece of a whole interview. Topic is for interview. Stop being such a douche ;<. Anyway cool interview. Seems people only response to titles
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So he just repeated what everyone else said? ok
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The gap is growing every month, there's no signs right now of foreigners catching up.
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"EG is a great example because it's a group of premier top level players"
Yeah right. StrifeCro, Axslav, Incontrol, Machine and LzGamer are all top level players.
User was warned for this post
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We need more foreigner team living in team houses and I also think having a coach can be really helpful and ofc practice practice practice.
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Hijacking this thread somewhat:
I'm starting to really enjoy Bitter's casting a lot more.
He's mixing perfectly with Rotterdam - Rotterdam's skill has a lot to do with this I think; he's very versatile, as a friend put it to me - and he's clearly enjoying himself.
Once he begins to loosen up on camera a little more, he should try to cast for the GSL. Only other thing I'd suggest is that he straighten up his posture a little (don't slump the shoulders so much) to cast a better on-camera profile.
That and continue to enjoy yourself. I'm enjoying watching the two of you - Rotterdam/Bitter - on camera, so keep it up.
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This is why I'm not happy about the Koreans going to foreign teams.
Yeah, I'm all for "support e-Sports", but right now I think that the reason so many foreigners are watching is because the foreign players can still compete.
But the skill gap is growing and growing fast. And with less and less foreigners being able to compete with Koreans (most who can are in Korea/have spent time in Korea), I worry that the foreign interest level will die. But when Koreans start topping every single MLG, NASL, basically any event that allows them to participate, it will get stale for some people. Personally, I am more interested in the better matches, it's why I don't watch the IPL. Not because of casters, production quality or whatever, it's because the games aren't as good. It's also why a mainstream foreign scene won't work unless they start to really, really pick it up. It's kind of why the MLS isn't as popular in the United States. Yeah, yeah, America doesn't like soccer as much, but it also doesn't help that the average level of play is hugely lower than that of Europe, with our best players going over there to compete instead of wasting their talents in the MLS.
Would I like to see foreign players succeed? Hell yeah I would, but they have to start training like the Korean progamers if they want to live the lives of the Korean progamers.
11+ hours a day of practice, quality practice. If you want to get good you have to work at it. That's why Huk is succeeding, that's why Naniwa will probably do very well. It's because they are willing to work hard to get those results, not just complain about how the Koreans are taking their money.
If I didn't have school, work, other obligations, I would love to put 9-10 hours a day into the game to see where I could get.
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Where money is, talent will start to follow. The problem right now mostly has to do with the fact that so few foreign players were making their primary living off SC or SC2. It just wasn't an option to live in NA and play SC full time and forget about things like a job, or school. With the influx of money that is going to change. It isn't about winning those tournaments even, it has more to do with the sponsorship money because that is the money that provides for the day to day living. Players can't bank on winning tournaments for their living, it is just a bonus if it happens. However, if the sponsorship money continues to grow like it has, and the prize pools increase so that finishing in the top 8 or 12 is still some good cash, you'll see the foreign players slowly start to catch up.
Also what you'll see is the pressure from the sponsors on the players which will get them motivated and practicing. Once the REAL money starts to roll in, the sponsors will really be able to say, "hey you need to be performing at this level. you are expected to practice and treat this like your job."
People are assuming that the gap won't be closed, but I think the opposite. I just think there is a bit of a lag right now between the influx of money, and the players being able to slowly rearrange their lives to dedicate their time. Also, it means young talent, the 15-18 year old gamers that might have potential can realistically say, "I'm going to practice and be a full time pro gamer" and not have it be a complete joke. Before, it was like, "yeah ok you can do that but you still need to go to school or have a job." It won't be the case as it becomes an actual attainable option that hey you could do this full time.
So I'm not in a crazy panic mode like some people over Koreans having won some tournaments recently. It just takes time for the players to come around and things to catch up. But one thing anyone knows, and you see this in sports all the time, if there is money, talent will follow and so will results. Just look at European, and SA basketball. Who would have thought anyone in the world would ever compete with the US after those first few Dream Teams. Then all the sudden basketball gains popularity in foreign areas, money comes in, talented players and athletes get serious, and next thing you know international basketball has closed the gap big time. Is the US still ahead? Sure, but it isn't just a walkover, and it isn't uncommon to see foreign teams win games or exhibitions.
The last point is that the foreign player vs. Korean rivalry will also help. I think players will be more motivated then ever to beat Koreans. Nothing like being told how good you aren't, to get you motivated to prove someone otherwise. I think foreign players will and already are sick of seeing the Koreans win everything and when you hear pros they are more serious then ever. I think some of them took for granted what it was going to take and thought the gap was closer then it really was.
I'm optimistic about how SC2 is going to develop globally. I think Koreans will dominate for the next few months, but you are going to start to see some foreign results slowly and slowly and one day we'll wake up a year from now and that gap will have really closed.
/rant over.
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On August 07 2011 01:04 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 00:59 brachester wrote:On August 07 2011 00:55 Cadgers wrote: I pray we don't end up in the same state as WC3 (a couple of top foreigners and the rest Asians) Consider it is lucky, because with this pace, there will be now foreingers at all, sc2 is still new and korean are already dominating sc2 scene. You know, when America was new, the British were dominating. What is true now, at this very moment, is not necessarily true in 10 years. That applies to everything.
Bad example. And in Esports, it has been the case that a scene will get dominated consistently for 10 years. That's just how it's worked in the past.
Honestly, though, it'll moreso come down to wether or not SC2 remains popular. If it doesn't, the sponsors will leave, MLG will ditch it, and the foreign scene will become as it was in BW. But as long as cash is flowing through the scene, the foreign players have the opportunity to rise to the occasion, and start beating koreans consistently, even if they're getting dominated by them at the moment.
Let's just hope that they do.
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foreigners should watch 12 weeks of pros that bitter does, it certainly help bitter alot in his mlg when he played!!!
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brachester Australia. August 07 2011 00:58. Posts 322
In korea [..] gaming is still not as accepted as in the western [...]
Wait... what..? Could you give some more information because I can't believe in a society with such a big progaming scene gaming could be less accepted by the mainstream than in the Western society where nothing comparable exists.
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On August 07 2011 01:00 JustPassingBy wrote: Maybe it's not only the players which are lacking, but also the teams. Not many foreign teams can provide their players with the excellend practise conditions that are in Korea (team house and dedicated coach).
I agree with this. The companies that are emplying these players have to ensure that their employees are doing their job.
I don' think in order for them to keep up they have to practice for 16hrs a day, but they do have to practice. If I were a team manager I would schedule training sessions like any other job that I am paid to do. Mon-Fri 9-5 with a 1hr lunch
Anyways, the way I see it if the foreigner players can't keep up we will see these foreign teams employing Korean players while the foreign players will be out of a job and competing in online cups (that no one cares about) for a few bucks here and there.
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Someday, maybe a smart foreign player will realize: hey, If i train 10 hours a day everyday on the Kr ladder for a few months and get insanely good, I will be making a lot more money in sponsorship and tournaments!
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On August 07 2011 01:45 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 01:00 JustPassingBy wrote: Maybe it's not only the players which are lacking, but also the teams. Not many foreign teams can provide their players with the excellend practise conditions that are in Korea (team house and dedicated coach). I agree with this. The companies that are emplying these players have to ensure that their employees are doing their job. I don' think in order for them to keep up they have to practice for 16hrs a day, but they do have to practice. If I were a team manager I would schedule training sessions like any other job that I am paid to do. Mon-Fri 9-5 with a 1hr lunch Anyways, the way I see it if the foreigner players can't keep up we will see these foreign teams employing Korean players while the foreign players will be out of a job and competing in online cups (that no one cares about) for a few bucks here and there.
9-5 with 1 hour lunch ? Wish my job had that, 10 hrs without lunchbreak
But yea they need a coach / manager that makes sure they use there time well and tells what they need to improve.
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I'm starting to feel that foreign players have to get better in order for the sc2 scene to survive internationally. When people go to big lans and watch their favorite players play, they want them to win, they don't want the koreans to come in and sweep every position. If it keeps happening the less dedicated fans will leave, then their friends who got those people into sc don't have that many friends to watch games with any and will leave, etc. I don't think this will happen anytime soon since there's 2 more expansions that will bring in a lot more players.
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I have to assume that foreign players are only practicing a couple hours a day at the most. But if i'm wrong and they do practice more then that then we are doomed.
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I won't be surprised after all the expansions comes out that we see a huge competitive gaming shift to China and suddenly all the Chinese players will begin to dominate SC2.
Sen is just the beginning.
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On August 07 2011 00:50 Jacko11 wrote: Its nothing that hasn't already been said by many others. No one wants another SCBW skill gap.
I want it to be that way where Koreans just 2:0 each foreigner and only can be beaten by another korean. Maybe I'm just Korean bias? I respect foreigners like HuK and Jinro who are staying in korea long term.
Most Foreigners are too lazy to practice or to get better, they need to be under strict management of practicing and not just practice with the team but amongst other teams. If foreign players don't want to be under strict policies then have fun making no money on the game you love.
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Most of the Koreans that switch(ed) also have better mechanics and more experience from BW. And very few A-teamers have switched at all, so just putting in an equal amount of practice isn't going to close the skill gap quickly.
On August 07 2011 02:03 skrzmark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 00:50 Jacko11 wrote: Its nothing that hasn't already been said by many others. No one wants another SCBW skill gap. I want it to be that way where Koreans just 2:0 each foreigner and only can be beaten by another korean. Maybe I'm just Korean bias? I respect foreigners like HuK and Jinro who are staying in korea long term.
That's strange to be honest. That's basically saying you want competition to die down and eventually have people lose interest in the game.
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Old news coming from a marginal player. Anybody could have told you this.
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