I don't understand shooters. I try to watch it and enjoy it but I guess if you don't play the game it is impossible to enjoy it. I should really buy one of those games just to understand it. Shooting people and trying to get a flag to your base. Meh. It looks so random. You can die as much as you want, mostly it is just a clusterfuck of deaths and then somebody, accidently(?), picks up the flag and jump-trows it home.
I would love to understand it and see why people are cheering. Any chance I can learn that without actually playing the game?
On August 10 2011 05:22 Koshi wrote: I don't understand shooters. I try to watch it and enjoy it but I guess if you don't play the game it is impossible to enjoy it. I should really buy one of those games just to understand it. Shooting people and trying to get a flag to your base. Meh. It looks so random. You can die as much as you want, mostly it is just a clusterfuck of deaths and then somebody, accidently(?), picks up the flag and jump-trows it home.
I would love to understand it and see why people are cheering. Any chance I can learn that without actually playing the game?
It's quite difficult without playing, unfortunately. A big portion of the impressiveness of what happens is in the players' skill with the guns, and you need to have played the games to understand how impressive those quick snipes are and such. Plus, with the only spectator option being streaming the players' first person views, it's hard to get a feel for what kind of teamwork is happening. They need to come out with a team shooter that has spectator modes where you can get a top-down view of where everybody is all lit up and easily visible, when and where weapons are going to come up, better stats viewing for spectators, that sort of thing.
For the cheering, a lot of that comes from big multikills or snipes. The kind of plays that an average joe like me looks at and just thinks about how damn lucky I would have to be to land that shot, and these guys do it every game almost.
On August 10 2011 05:24 godemperor wrote: Pretty awesome recap, what I learned from this video, SC2 is awesome, COD is camping feast, Halo surprising fun to watch.
Halo's main difference between CoD is that gunfights actually go back and forth while CoD is often a hide and seek I saw you first so I killed you game. Makes it more interesting imo.
Here's me hoping MLG picks up CS 1.6 :/ Even in that latest SirScoots interview, he always wanted CS 1.6 to reach the same level of success SC2 has. HALO and COD don't quite reach up to the competitiveness of CS 1.6. At least 1.6 has ESEA lol
Thanks a lot for that video. I missed MLG Anaheim and caught most of the important stuff but this really helped fill me in. Glad MLG does stuff like this!
But best of 5 or greater finals next time, please!
I really enjoyed that vid, and ya you really have to play the games to realize how clutch some of those kills are. Getting an overkill to win the game is like losing no marines to 100 banelings on creep. Black ops isnt nearly as entertaining since it is easier to kill people, 6 on 6 would be way better. Also I want them to use c4 :/
On August 10 2011 05:41 Ladnil wrote: They need to come out with a team shooter that has spectator modes where you can get a top-down view of where everybody is all lit up and easily visible, when and where weapons are going to come up, better stats viewing for spectators
its called counter strike 1.6 and it came out almost as long ago as SC BW
and i pretty much agree with everyone else CoD is a boring camp fest, halo is decent to watch but SC2 still best imo (maybe mlg should put street fighter 4 or MvC3 or some other fighter game into their lineup it could be interesting to watch)
Picking up 1.6 would be such a baller idea. But one can only dream haha, it just doesnt appeal to the sponsors. Id do anything to hear redeye cast again
The vod for MMA vs Boxer Game 3 is still broken. I'd post a comment there but every comment there says the same thing.
This video was very nice though. I didn't know MMA wept after beating Boxer o.O I keep <3'ing both of those guys more.
The other games are hard for me to follow (mostly as I haven't played), but the video does them justice. It's ironic that another person, in addition to team Instinct, concluded a perfect run through a huge tournament that same weekend--Nestea.
With the way this video ends, I think this would be absolutely perfect for a pre MLG Raleign hype video for MVP. MVP needs help getting hype IMO because he doesn't generate it by himself with any trash talk or drama so casual viewers have a harder time getting hyped for MVP. Its sad because hes without a doubt the best and most accomplished terran in sc2 yet (it seemed like) everyone was going crazy for DRG and MMA instead
I love these videos. they may sound discouraging for foreigners, but I think that players can either step up or step out. It's decision time and I know many of the foreigners are die hard competitors.
On August 10 2011 10:59 `MemoRY wrote: I loled when the Halo: Reach guy talked about being so dedicated by playing 3-4 hours per day.
Haha same. Wonder when Koreans would dominate if they entered the world of competitive FPS in as big a scale as SC:BW and SC2 given their practice methods.
On August 10 2011 10:59 `MemoRY wrote: I loled when the Halo: Reach guy talked about being so dedicated by playing 3-4 hours per day.
Haha same. Wonder when Koreans would dominate if they entered the world of competitive FPS in as big a scale as SC:BW and SC2 given their practice methods.
just curious, if ure good at a FPS game, will that help in SC2 and vice versa? or do u need different skillsets.
I know one of the gross differences is team games require teamwork and in SC2 the builds and meta game affects the outcome alot. just a small question for people who have tried dominating at both a FPS and a RTS.
On August 10 2011 10:59 `MemoRY wrote: I loled when the Halo: Reach guy talked about being so dedicated by playing 3-4 hours per day.
Haha same. Wonder when Koreans would dominate if they entered the world of competitive FPS in as big a scale as SC:BW and SC2 given their practice methods.
just curious, if ure good at a FPS game, will that help in SC2 and vice versa? or do u need different skillsets.
I know one of the gross differences is team games require teamwork and in SC2 the builds and meta game affects the outcome alot. just a small question for people who have tried dominating at both a FPS and a RTS.
The most important thing probably is the mindset, if you played any game 8hours a day competitively it defintately makes it easier picking up another one and stuff like mouse accuracy and stuff will definately help both ways around... But apart from that I don't think you can make a real call on stuff like this...
I think MoMaN is the only FPS player I know of who managed to be somewhat successful in SC2
On August 10 2011 16:24 Alltomata wrote: LOL "We must get on, almost every night of the week. And play for 3-4 hours."
That's nothing compared to what Starcraft players put in.
3-4 hours AS A TEAM. The Halo players practice all day in custom games, but getting 4 players together for team practice is difficult considering they're usually college kids living in disparate parts of the country.
In any case, anyone that can compete at that level deserves respect, regardless of the title.
On August 10 2011 16:24 Alltomata wrote: LOL "We must get on, almost every night of the week. And play for 3-4 hours."
That's nothing compared to what Starcraft players put in.
3-4 hours AS A TEAM. The Halo players practice all day in custom games, but getting 4 players together for team practice is difficult considering they're usually college kids living in disparate parts of the country.
In any case, anyone that can compete at that level deserves respect, regardless of the title.
It is interesting the large variance in work required to become the best. You can't argue with Instinct's results. The question is will their dominance spark other teams to up the ante and start practicing more?
Really it just speaks to the poorness of competition than it does Instinct's lack of dedication. If everyone practiced 3-4 hours a day then those at the top would have to practice more, feeding a cycle and maybe we'd see the numbers we see in SC2 and such. But really I don't think the money is there. Outside of MLG I don't think Halo Reach has tons of $100 tournaments per week and the option to fly to an Assembly or a Dreamhack or an IEM or a GSL or a GSTL or....
I think SC2 and Halo: Reach are on different plateaus of work to put in and money to get out.
On August 10 2011 16:24 Alltomata wrote: LOL "We must get on, almost every night of the week. And play for 3-4 hours."
That's nothing compared to what Starcraft players put in.
3-4 hours AS A TEAM. The Halo players practice all day in custom games, but getting 4 players together for team practice is difficult considering they're usually college kids living in disparate parts of the country.
In any case, anyone that can compete at that level deserves respect, regardless of the title.
It is interesting the large variance in work required to become the best. You can't argue with Instinct's results. The question is will their dominance spark other teams to up the ante and start practicing more?
Really it just speaks to the poorness of competition than it does Instinct's lack of dedication. If everyone practiced 3-4 hours a day then those at the top would have to practice more, feeding a cycle and maybe we'd see the numbers we see in SC2 and such. But really I don't think the money is there. Outside of MLG I don't think Halo Reach has tons of $100 tournaments per week and the option to fly to an Assembly or a Dreamhack or an IEM or a GSL or a GSTL or....
I think SC2 and Halo: Reach are on different plateaus of work to put in and money to get out.
You're misunderstanding me. They practice their craft all day. But as a team, they play 3-4 hours together going over strats, etc. It is not to say they only practice 3-4 hours, just 3-4 hours in one team session together.
Great video, I really enjoyed the epic story of Instinct. I think more could have been made of the amazing crowd response to Boxer's awesomeness, but Starcraft definitely got its due.
Awesome recap video! I love when these come out so I can find out who won Halo and COD since i spend all my time watching SCII. I'm hoping to be able to walk around at Raleigh and film each stage a little bit each day during the weekend.
Do they only play on one map for Halo? They switched it up for COD, but Halo all looked the same. Maybe I just can't tell. Interesting to see the team dynamics.
On August 10 2011 10:59 `MemoRY wrote: I loled when the Halo: Reach guy talked about being so dedicated by playing 3-4 hours per day.
Haha same. Wonder when Koreans would dominate if they entered the world of competitive FPS in as big a scale as SC:BW and SC2 given their practice methods.
Actually, I don't recall any dominating/top3 team or player on either quake or cs 1.6. Only ex estro/wemadefox and before them lunatic-hai could compete but they never won anything international I believe (maybe estars once?). I don't think fps games reward 12 hours of training a day as much, 6-8 hours and better adaptation seems to be better.
Saddens me that people constantly rip on other games in these forums because they don't meet the "standards" of BW or SC2(I know it is a BW and SC2 website). It helps make a lot of StarCraft fans seem like assholes to outsiders and puts us all under the same stereotype.
FPS games are different practice, the teamwork comes first and the skill compliments it. SC2 is more about the build orders, reading the opponent and getting your timings correct.
This topic has been slightly derailled but I wanted to thanks the creator of this video That's exactly what I needed; MLG produces so many games that's it's hard to keep all of them in mind. Also I enjoyed the part about Halo, I've been a fan of the franchise since the beginning and I'm a casual console gamer, so that's fine by me. ps: We need bigger prize pools
On August 10 2011 10:59 `MemoRY wrote: I loled when the Halo: Reach guy talked about being so dedicated by playing 3-4 hours per day.
I was like whtf at that moment :D
At that moment, I knew a ton of folks here would assume that that was /total/ practice and not just the time they spent playing together as a team. See below.
On August 10 2011 16:24 Alltomata wrote: LOL "We must get on, almost every night of the week. And play for 3-4 hours."
That's nothing compared to what Starcraft players put in.
3-4 hours AS A TEAM. The Halo players practice all day in custom games, but getting 4 players together for team practice is difficult considering they're usually college kids living in disparate parts of the country.
On August 11 2011 04:49 Kralic wrote: Awesome video.
Saddens me that people constantly rip on other games in these forums because they don't meet the "standards" of BW or SC2(I know it is a BW and SC2 website). It helps make a lot of StarCraft fans seem like assholes to outsiders and puts us all under the same stereotype.
FPS games are different practice, the teamwork comes first and the skill compliments it. SC2 is more about the build orders, reading the opponent and getting your timings correct.
Hopefully they have one of these after Raleigh!
I think there are fps games tht most starcraft players respect, like cs and quake. halo/cod not so much. and ive competed in cod4 so im not trying to be a dick here its just the truth. competitive fps games have been going downhill for a long time now.
On August 10 2011 10:59 `MemoRY wrote: I loled when the Halo: Reach guy talked about being so dedicated by playing 3-4 hours per day.
MLG is like the only big tournament for Halo wheareas SC2 seems to have something big every week. My guess is Halo players need to have jobs aswell to support themselves so 3-4 hours per day may be all they can afford?
Great video. MLG should look into setting up mics on the crowd to give a better sense of how loud it was. The crowd at Anaheim threw down the gauntlet. You're up, Raleigh!
On August 10 2011 10:59 `MemoRY wrote: I loled when the Halo: Reach guy talked about being so dedicated by playing 3-4 hours per day.
MLG is like the only big tournament for Halo wheareas SC2 seems to have something big every week. My guess is Halo players need to have jobs aswell to support themselves so 3-4 hours per day may be all they can afford?
halo players play a lot. but they fuck around a lot too. like adam said, the instinct team had 3-4 hours of practice everyday. thats pretty good for a team imo.
50 minutes is a bit long for a recap video. Of course that's just my opinion. I spent hours watching the event. I don't really feel like watching another hour of it. It's the thought that counts, and I appreciate the time it took y'all to put it together, and I'm sure others will enjoy it, but I would prefer something around the 10-15 minute mark.
On August 11 2011 13:46 Devolved wrote: 50 minutes is a bit long for a recap video. Of course that's just my opinion. I spent hours watching the event. I don't really feel like watching another hour of it. It's the thought that counts, and I appreciate the time it took y'all to put it together, and I'm sure others will enjoy it, but I would prefer something around the 10-15 minute mark.
50 minutes is perfect. Maybe you are thinking of a highlights video.
Awesome video! I gotta say though, it looks like the fps games are played on a low level. However, it's probably harder then it looks with console controllers I guess.
On August 11 2011 22:04 Smapz wrote: Awesome video! I gotta say though, it looks like the fps games are played on a low level. However, it's probably harder then it looks with console controllers I guess.
There's much much more to Halo than how hard/easy it is to out-shoot opponents using a controller. Individual skill, to the extent that it can be expressed via the limitations of a console, takes a backseat to a team's collective skill in things like influencing/controlling teammate/opponent spawns, baiting/feints, setups/map control, opening strats, coordinated pushes/setup breaking, power weapon/item control, etc. None of those elements really came through in the video. When you're at an event and can see all 8 screens at once, though, it can be pretty amazing.
I don't think so much of it being people here disliking halo/cod, and not disliking cs/quake, it's more pc vs console, a generation gap.
Though all games are really going down in terms of difficulty, sc2 is easier than scbw, halo is easier than quake and cod is easier than cs, or maybe streamlined is a more accepted word.
There is a culture gap between BW/SC2 fans and FPS fans. For myself, I don't even own a console, and the only reason I upgraded my computer was specifically to play SC2. I'm sure it's takes similar effort and skill to play at the top levels of Call of Duty and CS.
It's just...no offence, but I'm going to offend you...if you were going to dedicate your life to mastering one game, would you choose chess or Hungry Hungry Hippos?
"OMG! Double-kill! He ate two white balls with an amazingly timed tap on his hippo trigger." "What a perfect nudge to send the last white ball into the mouth of his teammate's hippo! Great teamwork!"
That's what it looks like to me. I'm sure it's hard to master, but practicing to railgun the four-pixel square that is the top of the head of your opponent...vs. the utter psychological dominance that is Flash...
Ok, which other game can you spend over an hour at over 250 actions per minute. -.- Starcraft may not need a lot of teamwork, but skillwise, I think it definetly takes the cake.
Just wanna tell you this is incredably awesome, not just for the SC2, I love watching Halo highlights (tho I can't stand COD, it's just not a spectator sport).
Man tho, it seems like Halo is starting to step up it's fandom after Columbus.
Actually, best line in that whole thing is from halo to be honest.
"We're 36 and one in tournament play... come at us."
Reach only looks boring because it's like 99% teamwork these days, and all the work that goes into set ups/opening strats/coordinating pushes etc. pp. was not visible at all in this video so it looked a lot more like what halo originally was, a console version of quake arena. Previous Halo games had a way bigger skill gap in terms of individual skill, so highlights were a lot more fun to watch, and the gameplay used to be a lot quicker.
Anyways the video was pretty baller, I love that they keep doing these for the events, it's pretty tough to keep track over 4 streams at once, given that starcraft has soooooo many commentated games these days it's pretty much impossible to catch all the starcraft action and follow the other 2 games, so these videos are a nice and easy way to see what was going on over at halo/cod (even though cod has to be one of the worst games to watch).
On August 10 2011 10:59 `MemoRY wrote: I loled when the Halo: Reach guy talked about being so dedicated by playing 3-4 hours per day.
On August 10 2011 16:24 Alltomata wrote: LOL "We must get on, almost every night of the week. And play for 3-4 hours."
That's nothing compared to what Starcraft players put in.
This has probably been addressed. However...
Unlike SC2 professionals, most Halo pros don't play the game full time. They have classes, a job, or both. If you look at the age ranges, most Halo players are still in high school, while SC2 players are in college, or early 20s. Another important thing to realize is that in professional Halo games (hyper-competitive custom/matchmaking), there is a point of diminishing returns. You cannot put in 8-12 hours a day without noticing a dive in your reflexes and decision making at the 6-hour mark. And unlike SC, there are a lot more opportunities for big plays in every game, which can make a frustrating situation increasingly more so as time passes. This is in stark contrast to regular multiplayer games, or playing with non-pros, where your team can roll through a day having fun and not getting chills from too much adrenaline.
On topic: I enjoy watching professional Halo play (have since 2005) and Starcraft games (started playing SC in 1999). Unfortunately, watching Black Ops games involves watching excessively ADHD players, and therefore not as enjoyable as the way I play COD 4.
Nice video. Looks like a lot of work has been put into this. I think the COD part was a little bit too long, anyway good job.
It is kind of amazing to see what these Halo players can pull off in that game, but I always wonder how much better they could be if they would use "proper" equipment for a FPS. When I remember and see what the guys in Quake and CS do with their mouse and keyboard.. I cannot help but think that playing a FPS with a gamepad is wrong.
There are a lot of things you could do better in order to cut the recap down.
Repetition, repetition, repetition. The summaries could be cut down by a ton if you explain each point once while the action is happening over the casters voices instead of summarizing what you are about to see, show the highlight footage and summarize the same point again otherwise it becomes redundant.
Same thing can be applied to SC2 revisited at the 38 minute mark.
There could have been a lot more polish on this and I mean a lot more.
Still a good video, but I would repackage it a little differently.
On August 10 2011 16:24 Alltomata wrote: LOL "We must get on, almost every night of the week. And play for 3-4 hours."
That's nothing compared to what Starcraft players put in.
3-4 hours AS A TEAM. The Halo players practice all day in custom games, but getting 4 players together for team practice is difficult considering they're usually college kids living in disparate parts of the country.
In any case, anyone that can compete at that level deserves respect, regardless of the title.
On August 10 2011 16:24 Alltomata wrote: LOL "We must get on, almost every night of the week. And play for 3-4 hours."
That's nothing compared to what Starcraft players put in.
This has probably been addressed. However...
Unlike SC2 professionals, most Halo pros don't play the game full time. They have classes, a job, or both. If you look at the age ranges, most Halo players are still in high school, while SC2 players are in college, or early 20s. Another important thing to realize is that in professional Halo games (hyper-competitive custom/matchmaking), there is a point of diminishing returns. You cannot put in 8-12 hours a day without noticing a dive in your reflexes and decision making at the 6-hour mark. And unlike SC, there are a lot more opportunities for big plays in every game, which can make a frustrating situation increasingly more so as time passes. This is in stark contrast to regular multiplayer games, or playing with non-pros, where your team can roll through a day having fun and not getting chills from too much adrenaline.
On topic: I enjoy watching professional Halo play (have since 2005) and Starcraft games (started playing SC in 1999). Unfortunately, watching Black Ops games involves watching excessively ADHD players, and therefore not as enjoyable as the way I play COD 4.
So basically the best unbeaten untouchable halo players in the world don't even play the game for an amount of time which would make them be considered pro gamers. Makes me think how much the other teams practice.
Okay, how about you show them how it's done then by forming your own team where you play 12-16 hours a day and win.
I'm not here to argue about what you call them. You can call them amateurs for all I care. The same could be said about the old BW Foreigner scene. Only a select few went or tried to go pro under that definition. In fact, I probably couldn't name ten. Let me try:
- Retje tried, didn't work out - IdrA never really amounted to anything in Korea however, he stayed and eventually tore through the international scene for quite a while... his mainstay was on the CJ Entus B-Team and I heard he was ranking pretty well internally near the end but not much more - NonY tried, did well in first courage, but couldn't stay due to personal reasons. It worked out well for him though, won a TSL and got married to a standup girl. Not too shabby. - Legionnaire, one of the last legitimate foreigner BW pros - Rekrul, errr Dan really didn't do anything lmao... he's always been well connected though! Props for that. He did well in bet matches though. - Assem, yeah he sort of earned his keep but hell, why would you play for IdrA in a tournament and think you could get away with it is beyond me (no respect for Romad? You silly boy) - Elky, bundle of fun. World class tournament poker player now. I'll leave it at that. - Giyom, our very own countryman and first legend in SC - Lx and PJ the two China men who joined SK briefly, but really didn't compete in PL and didn't really do anything noteworthy in Korea. They did well internationally though. - Then you have guys like Nazgul and Slayer who were there right at the beginning, not much more than that man.
Oh shit, I managed to name over ten. t('.'t) ^('.')^ Q('.'t) ^('.')^ o-('.')-o l('.')l
As for the rest, like Dimaga, Strelok, White-ra, etc. Doesn't change the fact they were still good, had sponsors, won tournaments and were well respected in our community. It is what it is man. I probably shouldn't have said Dimaga, lol. He did sort of abuse in TSL2. ;/
No reason to compare the two communities.
I'm fine with what you call amateur sports because our whole community was based on amateur sport.
I didn't watch the whole thing, but it looks like they forgot the part where Nexy turned into a sick tonka truck and dipped out....
In all seriousness though, MLG has become on of my favorite things. I hope they can continue to attract high level Koreans; and if so may be able to give GSL a run for it's money.
I would love to see some additional games in the future too, not that I don't love SC2 but occasionally watching CS can be fun too.
On August 21 2011 05:46 StarStruck wrote: There are a lot of things you could do better in order to cut the recap down.
Repetition, repetition, repetition. The summaries could be cut down by a ton if you explain each point once while the action is happening over the casters voices instead of summarizing what you are about to see, show the highlight footage and summarize the same point again otherwise it becomes redundant.
Same thing can be applied to SC2 revisited at the 38 minute mark.
There could have been a lot more polish on this and I mean a lot more.
Still a good video, but I would repackage it a little differently.
This is a great suggestion.
I found myself questioning the format of the recap before the 10 minute mark, as your narrator would introduce the team's involved, summarize the action, and then re-summarize the action as the gameplay footage rolled.
You could save a lot of time by simply introducing the team's back-story, and jumping straight to the gameplay footage as the summary is narrated. It would make for a more streamlined recap, and would be less awkward to watch. The entire video could have been streamlined into a 30 minute session probably, and been more exciting to watch.
Regardless, I still enjoyed the 50 minute version, and appreciate the effort put in my MLG to continue stepping up their game to put on a great show for the spectator.
To shed some light on the console side of things, I am a professional Halo Reach player and I think SC2 is amazing to watch. The skill-set is obviously different from SC2 & Halo, but I can tell you that the professionals do put a lot of time into practice and it is extremely hard to be at the top (like anything). So I feel it is strange for me to say sc2 is played on a low-level because I would get dominated by the top players, but that also goes for Halo as well.
Anyways that was my first post here, and GL to everyone going to Raleigh!
Wow, Halo Reach seems a lot better than I thought. Granted it's being played on a god damn PS3/Xbox controller, but the capture the flag playstyle reminds me of Quake 3 Arena CTF in it's heyday