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On August 28 2011 16:05 avilo wrote:Pretty sure on island maps Terran would be imbalanced because the strongest maxed out army in SC2 is a Terran with a mass orbital farm and all supply in battlecruisers/ravens and ghosts + nukes. And on islands...if the game gets extended, Zerg air has zero chance to compete against protoss air/terran air in late game. It basically goes like this in terms of air Zerg<Protoss<Terran. That is assuming that Terran is able to make it to that late game scenario. Otherwise, protoss does have warp-in...and warp prisms+recall, and even tho in extended late game scenarios mass mutas would not be able to handle mass ravens/bcs or carriers/phoenixs/voids...there would be a lot of potential for Zerg to play momentum based with mass muta play and nydusing expos...the only problem would be breaking expansions... They would be interesting I would think though ! It would be interesting to see a well designed island map, but i doubt it will happen.
Terran would definitely have strongest late game but I think early game to mid game, protoss will be strongeset. Considering that Phoenix owns everything in the starport cept BC and the threat of void ray harassing discourages mega fast expo without starport and mutas. They will pretty much force corruptors and corruptors are might allow zerg to expand but I dont know how cost effectiviely they fair vs void rays.
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We can't really know for sure how they'll work out if we don't test them. Like back in BW when there was that one island map Paradoxxx or something. Still remember that Boxer game
Maybe one of those map makers who made maps for GSL could think about this and try to make awesome map for GSL so we could get a serious testing if it works (Worth of one season imo) (Though it may get downvoted by many players ;P)
Personally I'd like to see a good island map played in somekind of high level league/tournament. Just to see how the game changes from the original playstyles and so on. And of course to see if they really work.
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I agree that scouting would be a fairly serious problem, though I think Terran could do 15 CC or 2 port banshee anyhow, because how are you going to punish greedy play on an island map? Terran air superiority could also be a serious problem - once they had a few vikings out, I don't see drop play or Nyduses having much of a chance. I imagine the metagame would evolve into TvT only, with lots and lots of viings.
That being said, why not give it a shot? My SC2 ranking indicates that I'm pretty dumb about this game, maybe island maps would be awesome. And experimentation is something to encourage - maybe something cool could come of this!
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It should really be a ladder map first and let the meta game flourish on how to play island map then it can be considered to be put into GSL. I would hate to see someone like Nestea lose to something stupid like 1 base 3 stargete void ray off one base or something.
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There is no point of wasting time thinking are island maps balanced or not because they are unplayable for other reason. This is scouting. Unless you are zerg, you cant scout -> you cant get a skill based win.
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I'm not saying that island play cannot be balanced, and that it can't provide a good gameplay experience, I think more that it's just too irregular with normal gameplay. I mean when drops have to be relied on so much that it seems more viable to go mass air, it severely limits the unit compositions each race has.
Plus I think Blizzard already released a 2 player island map, but it wasn't really used past the first phase of the beta, if not at all.
On August 28 2011 14:12 sekritzzz wrote: There simply is no way to penetrate a terrans base with turrets lol. I have experimented in bronze league a year ago. Trust me it does not work.
I once entered a 1v1 (on Delta Quadrant) in Bronze against a Protoss who contained me by building nothing but cannons across the whole fucking map. I think by the end, he had about 100+ photon cannons containing me on 1 base.
Me, being the stupid Bronze League hero that I was thought it was OP, tried to spend 20 or so mins one basing to try and bust the contain, tried everything I could including Ultralisks, a mass of Roach Hydra, Zerglings etc but couldn't bust it.
However, Brood Lords can outrange all anti-air structures. Had I built them, it would have been an instant-gg
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Phoenix don't get bonus against Medivacs, they are armored.
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They have never been a good idea for ten years now and they're still not a good idea.
Terran is going to have the obvious advantage, there's no way around it; it takes so much time for other races to be able to effectively use the terrain. Not that protoss and zerg don't have the tools, but there's just no time for you to tech quickly enough when a cc or a barracks will complete ages before warp prisms or nydus worms.
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terran would be favored clearly since they would be the only race that could fast expand and theyre race is designed to utilize drop play.
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is there any way to make a map that has doors or bridges or something like that that automatically open/close at certain intervals?
that way it could be semi grounded so its not all so op for terran, but still greatly hampers the ability of ground units to walk?
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Well for those of you looking for an island map there is always debris field which is a map made by blizzard but (rightfully so) never made it to ladder. People tend to forget that there are other melee maps from blizzard than those on ladder.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Debris_Field
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Maybe not island maps, but sem-island maps would be great i think, till now we only had lost temple and srap station with island expos, but they were not so great, idk why mapmapkers and blizzard are not making more of them.
oh, i forgot about Desert oasis hah, that map was awesome
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Canada10901 Posts
On August 28 2011 16:32 Sea_Food wrote: There is no point of wasting time thinking are island maps balanced or not because they are unplayable for other reason. This is scouting. Unless you are zerg, you cant scout -> you cant get a skill based win.
I disagree. You certainly can scout, it's just delayed in most cases. (Barracks could actually just float to scout, if that's such a big deal.) But then a lot of the early rush attacks are delayed too and a lot of builds are ruled out. Really don't have to worry about those baneling busts or 4warpgate builds. So they're probably going macro or air, so your preparation will adjust accordingly. I can't theorycraft on how exactly because we just don't have the island maps.
But it is certainly not the case of no scouting, it's all delayed, but so is the timing attacks. If banshee rushes are so great, opponents will prepare accordingly. And robo, stargate, or hallucinate aren't that far away considering that the m&m force won't be knocking on your door as soon as stim is researched- it's an island.
But there's still the problem of those floating CC's that for some inexplicable reason can pick up workers...
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I would love it if next GSL just included an island map. BAM. I don't care if it's imba, it's entertainment. Players can veto one map so it wouldn't be like "Oh NesTea lost because of the island map." We would see all new strategies from every race, imagine it!
If it really proves to be too good for Terran then it'll be taken out, but it'll be something to talk about.
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so they patch the game and make it so CC's cant pick up scvs and problem solveD?>
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Island maps just favor Terran by a lot. Safe expansion, easily defended (turrets or PF), Medivacs for easy transport and ofc flying buildings :D. For Zergs, its definitely really bad since you won't have any way of defending it properly (spines just die quickly and zergs rely on ground army so you can't rally your army from this base). For Protoss, i guess it's easier to defend because of warp ins but those units will be stuck there. Unlike Terran you don't build multiple prism compare to medivacs that can be use in different ways. Also mules, just drop tons of mules and dry the resources there so you won't need to worry about it getting destroyed.
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I do think Island maps are very unfavourite towards Zerg, because Zerg can only expand after researching drop, similarly for Protoss, who need a warp prism. In the meantime, Terran will just go cc first because there will be no early pressure.
User was warned for this post
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OP, how long have you been playing Starcraft? Did you not see the crappy island liftoff time wasters in beta/post-release lost temple?
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You need like 2-3 bases on your starting locations to prevent terran being completely op. Other tham that id like to play it on NONladder maps.
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On August 28 2011 17:34 DarKcS wrote: OP, how long have you been playing Starcraft? Did you not see the crappy island liftoff time wasters in beta/post-release lost temple? those didnt have rocks
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