MVP_Guineapig has changed his name to SC2_Guineapig, and just confirmed on his stream that he left the team.
Does anyone know anything about this? Search thread only reveals a small mention about it in the Moon joins Fnatic thread, if this isn't enough for an OP I'm sorry please close >.<
I'll go out on a limb and provide my two cents on why these guys are leaving these teams. As everyone knows, the Koreans are generally more skilled. These players that know they are quite good hear about other foreign players, whom they feel are on the same level as, or better than getting large salaries. They turn around and think to themselves, if player x can get xxxxx number of dollars a year, I deserve xxxxx number of dollars as well and can get it from a foreign team easily. There is a few problems with this. One, there is very few teams that have the money to offer what they are seeking, and when a smaller team does, they basically shaft the rest of their players because every penny they have goes to one player. Another problem is that the foreign players that get great salaries, get paid because there some of the few foreign players that can compete and beat top Korean talent. In my opinion, I think for us foreign players its more exciting to see a foreigner player beating top Korean players than Korean players beating Koreans. In turn, making the foreigner very valuable for their marketability. This is just my opinion. I hope he finds a team soon, he is very talented.
On January 18 2012 19:40 yawnoC wrote: Wonder where he will go ... GuineapigPRIME, oGsGuineapig, STGuineapig, FXO.Guineapig, IMGuineapig ... they all sound good to me ^_^
On January 18 2012 19:40 yawnoC wrote: Wonder where he will go ... GuineapigPRIME, oGsGuineapig, STGuineapig, FXO.Guineapig, IMGuineapig ... they all sound good to me ^_^
On January 18 2012 19:40 yawnoC wrote: Wonder where he will go ... GuineapigPRIME, oGsGuineapig, STGuineapig, FXO.Guineapig, IMGuineapig ... they all sound good to me ^_^
EGGuineapig, Liquid`Guineapig, coLGuineapig, QGuineapig, FanaticMSI.Guineapig ... they all sound pretty good to guineapig. >_>
everytime i read "GuineaPig" i have to think about that movie charlie sheen called the FBI because he thought it was actually real snuff movie. The movie is sick i agree but :D
Never thought Gunieapig would leave MvP in a while. Guess hes interested in a foreign team? Time will tell
Uh, people aren't leaving their teams because of some crazy drama. It's because contracts are ending (afaik) and people will switch teams a lot since the sc2 scene is pretty volatile still.
On January 18 2012 19:40 yawnoC wrote: Wonder where he will go ... GuineapigPRIME, oGsGuineapig, STGuineapig, FXO.Guineapig, IMGuineapig ... they all sound good to me ^_^
On January 18 2012 20:43 snowhell wrote: you think TSL is rich? TSL is one of the poorest teams.
TSL is actually the richest team in Korea (alongside ST). TSL send their players to foreign event without any foreign support, and they also give all their players salary (them not recieving salary any longer is not true!)
yeah ... its january what else do you expect, the contracts are running out. The bw threads are even worse though as people there retire because of a tournament format switch. But really no reason to panic.
On January 18 2012 20:43 snowhell wrote: you think TSL is rich? TSL is one of the poorest teams.
TSL is actually the richest team in Korea (alongside ST). TSL send their players to foreign event without any foreign support, and they also give all their players salary (them not recieving salary any longer is not true!)
they are still one of the poorest. I can think of alteast 5 teams richer.
On January 18 2012 20:43 snowhell wrote: you think TSL is rich? TSL is one of the poorest teams.
TSL is actually the richest team in Korea (alongside ST). TSL send their players to foreign event without any foreign support, and they also give all their players salary (them not recieving salary any longer is not true!)
they are still one of the poorest. I can think of alteast 5 teams richer.
It feels like someone needs to inform the Koreans that leaving their teams in hopes for a foreigner team to pick them up is foolhardy at best. Talking about it here is all well and good, but they don't read this I'd hate to see GuineaPig suffer from no team wanting to pick him up, he was always entertaining to watch and played well for MVP in the GSTL.
On January 18 2012 20:43 snowhell wrote: you think TSL is rich? TSL is one of the poorest teams.
TSL is actually the richest team in Korea (alongside ST). TSL send their players to foreign event without any foreign support, and they also give all their players salary (them not recieving salary any longer is not true!)
they are still one of the poorest. I can think of alteast 5 teams richer.
Say it then, because you will be suprised.
oh please fill me in on TSL's finances. didnt realize the TSL accountant was in this thread.
On January 18 2012 20:43 snowhell wrote: you think TSL is rich? TSL is one of the poorest teams.
TSL is actually the richest team in Korea (alongside ST). TSL send their players to foreign event without any foreign support, and they also give all their players salary (them not recieving salary any longer is not true!)
they are still one of the poorest. I can think of alteast 5 teams richer.
Say it then, because you will be suprised.
oh please fill me in on TSL's finances. didnt realize the TSL accountant was in this thread.
You said you knew atleast 5 korean teams richer than TSL, and I said that it's not true. so yeah. Only like SlayerS and ST are richer than TSL.
On January 18 2012 20:43 snowhell wrote: you think TSL is rich? TSL is one of the poorest teams.
TSL is actually the richest team in Korea (alongside ST). TSL send their players to foreign event without any foreign support, and they also give all their players salary (them not recieving salary any longer is not true!)
they are still one of the poorest. I can think of alteast 5 teams richer.
Say it then, because you will be suprised.
oh please fill me in on TSL's finances. didnt realize the TSL accountant was in this thread.
On January 18 2012 20:43 snowhell wrote: you think TSL is rich? TSL is one of the poorest teams.
TSL is actually the richest team in Korea (alongside ST). TSL send their players to foreign event without any foreign support, and they also give all their players salary (them not recieving salary any longer is not true!)
they are still one of the poorest. I can think of alteast 5 teams richer.
Say it then, because you will be suprised.
oh please fill me in on TSL's finances. didnt realize the TSL accountant was in this thread.
You said you knew atleast 5 korean teams richer than TSL, and I said that it's not true. so yeah. Only like SlayerS and ST are richer than TSL.
On January 18 2012 19:40 yawnoC wrote: Wonder where he will go ... GuineapigPRIME, oGsGuineapig, STGuineapig, FXO.Guineapig, IMGuineapig ... they all sound good to me ^_^
EGGuineapig, Liquid`Guineapig, coLGuineapig, QGuineapig, FanaticMSI.Guineapig ... they all sound pretty good to guineapig. >_>
On January 18 2012 22:06 FXOpen wrote: Koreans told me "Guinea pig leave cos he want to go USA".
Seriously?
Another one? How much more is this gonna go on for. Its better to stay in your current korean team. Instead of having a very high risk gamble of waiting/looking for a foreign team to pick you up
On January 18 2012 20:43 snowhell wrote: you think TSL is rich? TSL is one of the poorest teams.
TSL is actually the richest team in Korea (alongside ST). TSL send their players to foreign event without any foreign support, and they also give all their players salary (them not recieving salary any longer is not true!)
they are still one of the poorest. I can think of alteast 5 teams richer.
Say it then, because you will be suprised.
oh please fill me in on TSL's finances. didnt realize the TSL accountant was in this thread.
You said you knew atleast 5 korean teams richer than TSL, and I said that it's not true. so yeah. Only like SlayerS and ST are richer than TSL.
What about FXO, IM and prime?
Prime is pretty damn poor from what I understand. They didn't even have a SPONSOR until TT eSports came along. And don't bother pointing out that Chicken thing, that ran out like a good 6 months ago.
On January 18 2012 20:43 snowhell wrote: you think TSL is rich? TSL is one of the poorest teams.
TSL is actually the richest team in Korea (alongside ST). TSL send their players to foreign event without any foreign support, and they also give all their players salary (them not recieving salary any longer is not true!)
they are still one of the poorest. I can think of alteast 5 teams richer.
Say it then, because you will be suprised.
oh please fill me in on TSL's finances. didnt realize the TSL accountant was in this thread.
You said you knew atleast 5 korean teams richer than TSL, and I said that it's not true. so yeah. Only like SlayerS and ST are richer than TSL.
What about FXO, IM and prime?
Neither IM and Prime have that much money really, both teams have been unable to give salaries to the players and neither have they been able to send their players to foreign events (the exception beeing when IM was under Quantic, and MKPs reddit fiananced tour to MLG and ESWC).
TSL have been sending their players to foreign tournaments without foreign funding for a long time now, no team besides SlayerS and Startale have been able to do that. TSL is stll the only/on of few team/s that pays their players salaries.
TSL have strong sponsors in form of G.Skill, Western Digital, Sky Digital and many others.
On January 18 2012 22:43 pStar wrote: The problem is, what foreigner team will want to pick him up.
If we look at all the possibilites.
-EG -TL -Mouz -Dignitas -Complexity -Quantic
The only teams that I can think of that would pick up a player of his caliber. And they don't really even need another player.
Wont be joining Col, Mouz, and Dig. Dont see why he would leave mvp to join coL. MVP players weren't really that fond of Naniwa either i belive, so dont think Quantic either.
WOW, didnt expect that, seems like a fair amount of koreans are leaving teams, most looking for foreign teams so they can play in different tournaments
On January 18 2012 23:05 Versioned wrote: Are they doing this because the foreign scene is where the money is at?
Yes. And this was bound to happen. Money in the foreign scene, skilled players in the korean scene. Everyone is preparing for a new record year 2012 with bigger pricepools while the GSL effectively reduced their pool by having fewer events. And the GSL is everything the Koreans have.
I don't really find it strange. It exists in other sports, like brazilian soccer players.
In fact, Guineapig shows more commitment than other programers by stating he wants to actually move to the US. Maybe he also has some other reasons for this.
On January 18 2012 23:05 Versioned wrote: Are they doing this because the foreign scene is where the money is at?
Yes. And this was bound to happen. Money in the foreign scene, skilled players in the korean scene. Everyone is preparing for a new record year 2012 with bigger pricepools while the GSL effectively reduced their pool by having fewer events. And the GSL is everything the Koreans have.
I don't really find it strange. It exists in other sports, like brazilian soccer players.
In fact, Guineapig shows more commitment than other programers by stating he wants to actually move to the US. Maybe he also has some other reasons for this.
The problem is that Korea is where you want to go to improve the most. There is a high monetary incentive for these players to join foreign teams but it comes at a probably cost to their skill. Generally in other sports the money is where the talent is. Unfortunately for SC2, that is not the case ;\. I think this can be a somewhat large problem if more and more Korean pros try to pull the same stunts. It just can't be good for the scene having all these top talent prospects looking to join second rate teams because they can offer more money than a top Korean team..
Another one? How much more is this gonna go on for. Its better to stay in your current korean team. Instead of having a very high risk gamble of waiting/looking for a foreign team to pick you up
They earn practically nothing in Korea, considering the GSL only happens every 2 months now and you have to be placed deep within Code S every time to earn a decent amount of money, there's also very little small cups in Korea to earn money from and few teams offer steady salary. Considering the worst foreign players earn tenfold what the worst Korean players do, and the fact that the worst Korean players are better than the best foreign players, it really isn't that much of a risk.
Why is everyone so surprised that a lot of Koreans leave their teams. They see foreigners come to their country who get like double the salary they get....
Of course this will clash with the salaries the Korean teams can offer. In WC3 this was no other, there were no big Koreans teams, almost all Koreans played for big international or Chinese teams.
GuineaPig is a good player. Not Code S level but very good, certainly better and more experienced than Dragon/Golden.
I can't really think who will sign him though because he's not got the fanbase for any decent ROI for major foreign teams and clearly he's left for money so isn't realistic for minor foreign teams.
Reign is probably most likely if he wants to live in the US.
i don't understand this Koreans who join or want to join foreign team what a point to join if in the end a big gun like MMA(SlayerS 'll support him for sure) DRG(Dam DRG is true foreign money hunter) MVP(if IM want to send him) MC(Now with SK support) Bomber(Red bull) and more (Nestea Lenock Puma Hero etc) 'll waiting for them(and most of them 'll get a seed)
if you can't win against them in Korea then i can't see you do better in foreign tournament
or maybe they only want some salaries dam..... better to find a new job
On January 18 2012 23:48 Alvis wrote: Guineapig may join Fnatic since he is good friend with rain.
Find one pick with them together > they are good friends
Well they are. The context of the pic was Rain was leaving to the States and Guineapig (even though no longer on TSL at that time) was the only one who came to visit him.
Nonetheless I don't think Guineapig will really be able to make it into a big team. His results and popularity are not really that big to warrant interest from any of the bigger teams.
koreans should stay in their korean teams. whats the point in rooting for liquid or eg against korean domination if you're rooting for a korean anyways?
On January 19 2012 01:18 Sif_ wrote: koreans should stay in their korean teams. whats the point in rooting for liquid or eg against korean domination if you're rooting for a korean anyways?
pretty sure not everyone has such a nationalistic view.
i just wanna see good players, i really don't give a hoot what country they're from.
On January 19 2012 01:18 Sif_ wrote: koreans should stay in their korean teams. whats the point in rooting for liquid or eg against korean domination if you're rooting for a korean anyways?
It's not just about rooting against korean domination, some people just want to root for their favourite player or team. Whether they're Korean or Foreigner doesn't really matter to some of us.
On January 19 2012 01:18 Sif_ wrote: koreans should stay in their korean teams. whats the point in rooting for liquid or eg against korean domination if you're rooting for a korean anyways?
On January 19 2012 01:18 Sif_ wrote: koreans should stay in their korean teams. whats the point in rooting for liquid or eg against korean domination if you're rooting for a korean anyways?
Because not everyone is a racist.
so rooting for foreigner makes someone a racist? i guess you learn something new everyday
anyway, i like the clash of foreigner vs koreans..wouldnt like seeing foreigner teams with their aces from korea.
and i also feel like those players leaving korean teams to join foreigner ones just want it easy, to compete with lesser skilled players, kind of giving up their shot at the top level of progamers
pick up any Korean will improve the standard and practices in your game house, so every capable foreigners team will want at least 1 code S player in their team
I like good players but i also like to have my personal heroes and teams!
If in the end it's korea vs korea all the time it will get boring very fast.. There must be a incentive and a protection for new players in EU & NA, it can't be 100% koreans all the time, the same players over & over..
The brazilians are the best football players in the world but no one wouldn't want a 100% brazilian league in any european country or a champions league with 50% brazilian, 25% argentinians and the rest euro players.. right?
Foreign teams should only pickup top koreans so that they can teach us something, it's way easier to relate to a euro or north american than a korean that doesn't even talk any english.
So yeah i love koreans, i want to visit south korea but EG&TL should not be TSL or IM and IPL,MLG & Nasl shouldn't try to be GSL.. because we allready have 1 GSL!
It's not a matter of racism, it's a matter of keeping it interesting for the fans, because if you only like koreans you can follow and support a korean team but someday us foreigners won't have any good team to support because all of them will be full of koreans..
KR players are going to keep leaving til there exists and equilibrium of KR players between KR and NA to the point that the illusion that infinite money exists in the west for non MVP MMA Nestea DRG caliber players is gone. At least it allows NA players to get some more practice vs. KR players on NA server. And for that I'm fine with it.
On January 19 2012 01:18 Sif_ wrote: koreans should stay in their korean teams. whats the point in rooting for liquid or eg against korean domination if you're rooting for a korean anyways?
Because not everyone is a racist.
so rooting for foreigner makes someone a racist? i guess you learn something new everyday
anyway, i like the clash of foreigner vs koreans..wouldnt like seeing foreigner teams with their aces from korea.
and i also feel like those players leaving korean teams to join foreigner ones just want it easy, to compete with lesser skilled players, kind of giving up their shot at the top level of progamers
Rooting for all foreigners over all Koreans and not wanting Koreans to be involved in the foreign scene and join foreign teams makes you a racist, yes.
Supporting players from your own country is fine and understandable. But someone from Sweden blindly supporting everyone from America, China and Brazil over Korea based purely on nationality is pretty damn weird.
People should just support the players who's play they like the best.
Look at Hero for example. Nobody really knew about him, and he had just a few appearances in the GSTL and Code A. Then Liquid signs him, and suddenly he is flying all over the world to participate in various tournaments. A whole world of opportunities opened up for Hero. There are many Koreans in the same position that oGsHero was in, and they feel that they too have the skills to do as well as Hero, if not better. Many of them just want the chance to compete, to prove that they are top players and not just another practice partner for MVP, MMA, DRG or MC.
Im getting completely lost in who's leaving who and who's joined who. I think may have to just ignore it all until around March and then figure it out then when its (hopefully) died down a bit.
Good luck to Guineapig though, I really liked watching his play!
shoot next thing you know someone like mc, mvp, or nestea will be joining a foreign team. the smarter ones probably wont jump ship until they have a solid landing to put there feet on (and that could be a foreign team, or market popularity etc)
edit: oh and I should say, I don't think this is completed unexpected: isn't the vast majority of sc2 professionals ones who didn't want to be punching bags to the top tier BW professionals(who even now make way more than sc2 professionals)? MVP made the switch in this respect to be a big fish in a smaller pond. I'd imagine this sort of behavior will continue until being a small fish in a big pond will be the equivalent financially of being a bigger fish in a small pond.
On January 19 2012 03:53 xxgeffxx wrote: shoot next thing you know someone like SK_MC, mvp, or nestea will be joining a foreign team. the smarter ones probably wont jump ship until they have a solid landing to put there feet on (and that could be a foreign team, or market popularity etc)
It's pretty simple why so many are leaving. They see players like puma and hero raking in the overseas money and they think to themselves, I'm just as good as them, but just don't have the same opportunities as them. They want a piece of that foreigner money too.
With only 5 gsl this year as well, the korean money will be harder to come by, since MVP and them will be winning it all. The people who do make it to code a/s will spend most of their time just trying to retain their spots with no real chance of actually winning a GSL and the big money. Then you have all the code b players who have no prize money to play for, unless they can get into code a/s.
On January 19 2012 01:18 Sif_ wrote: koreans should stay in their korean teams. whats the point in rooting for liquid or eg against korean domination if you're rooting for a korean anyways?
Because not everyone is a racist.
so rooting for foreigner makes someone a racist? i guess you learn something new everyday
anyway, i like the clash of foreigner vs koreans..wouldnt like seeing foreigner teams with their aces from korea.
and i also feel like those players leaving korean teams to join foreigner ones just want it easy, to compete with lesser skilled players, kind of giving up their shot at the top level of progamers
Sif_ is racist and he doesn't even know it. Poor thing.
Watching Guineapig's stream right now and someone from Check6 just invited him to a call on skype for a possible recruitment. Guinea told him to wait after he's done streaming.