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This story now has more posts than the MLG Winter Qualifier player list. It is the most replied story in community news, in under 8 hours.
I guess this is why the Kardashians are so important. The quest for the almighty pageview.
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On January 31 2012 09:49 dsousa wrote: This story now has more posts than the MLG Winter Qualifier player list. It is the most replied story in community news, in under 8 hours.
I guess this is why the Kardashians are so important.
And you're responsible for almost a full page yourself...are you making fun of people or.......?
Drama brings excitement. You cannot deny this as your post count in this thread alone shows that
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Well, seems it's been dealt with, just hope this serves as a warning for the future to make sure that all organisations and players/teams can ensure it doesn't happen again as it does suck.
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9069 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:36 krisss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:18 disciple wrote:On January 31 2012 09:11 Otolia wrote:On January 31 2012 08:52 disciple wrote: A couple of hours earlier the same day I was privileged to watch a 6 hours long tennis match that epitomized the very essence of professional sport - the resilience to overcome all physical and mental challenges, the determination to win, to entertain spectators and fans regardless of fatigue and pain. Now, there's no need to compare Stephano with Djokovic and Nadal, but speaking of professionalism what Stephano did was insulting to his profession to say the least. The difference in term of incentives between a Grand Chelem (around a 1 M $) and those of the ONOG (around 1.5 K $) is significant. But that's not everything, when a professional tennis player decides to forfeit a match in a smaller tournament to preserve himself for a next one - bigger - like Tsonga often do for Rolland Garros, nobody is criticizing him for being insulting to the profession because every other person knows his body and mindset are his sole way to make money. If you don't see the problem in your opinion right now, I will just left you and the other paragons of virtue who are keen to lash the hounds onto everyone not deemed worthy of their supposed superiority that professional sport is a job which means it is about making money. When the rewards isn't worth the care, nobody will do the job ... to say the least. Stephano as well as the two players mentioned are getting paid to entertain the spectators. Whether they see themselves in this position or not it doesn't matter as winning a Grand Slam tournament or 1,5k sc event would be equally irrelevant if no one wants to watch you play. On a side note, do you really believe Djokovic or Nadal thought about the money while playing each other? The real problem to me comes from Stephanos reaction to the situation and reading a good share of the comments here its absolutely shocking for me to realize how low are the community standards for professional ethics in progaming haha, you are really comparing the prestige of a Grand Slam with a Sc2 Tournament nobody knew about before yesterday °_° And to be fair: If Djoko didnt decide to play the finals, he would still be second place with all the prize money/ATP ranking points, etc. So pretty bad call by the organizers.
But who is creating the prestige of any tournament to begin with and why recreational activities like sports or computer games should become a profession? Because there's spectators interest and motivation for improvement by the players, professional players are paid to showcase their skills in front of the audience, if there is no interest there won't be fans, if there are no fans there won't be professional sport or gaming. I might be damn good at something but if no one wants to watch me whats the point ?
The whole incident highlights some important issues which sooner or later should become subjects of a discussion. The tight tournament schedule is indeed one of them. The other problem has not much to do with Stephano in person as people are trying to make this look like, but is in my humble opinion relevant to the standards our community has for professional ethics in gaming. In that regard I think the situation is fairly similar to Naniwa's incident from a while ago.
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On January 31 2012 09:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:38 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:35 Otolia wrote:On January 31 2012 09:26 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:21 Otolia wrote:On January 31 2012 09:14 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:11 Enervate wrote: I for one appreciate this being posted as news on TL. I didn't even know about this tournament or this incident beforehand so I found this thread very informative, and I'm glad I found out what happened. Hooray. I just hope there are a lot of people like you who are not posting. I hope you also understands what it says about our community that this kind of subject is hosted on the same website as the excellent GSL/PL write-ups. Not to diminish the work of the newsers, but I think TL should focus more on its excellent writing staff and let the users post the news and moderating after. I really disagree with this. Do you believe that an ONOG tournament admin, or Stephano himself, or a French national making this thread would make for better news thread? Absolutely not, it'd be entirely biased and not include all relevant information. Considering the touchy nature of the subject, the multiple sources, and the responses, I think the OP is actually quite fair in its presentation of what happened. I wasn't really discussing the quality or the opinion of the OP. You are right in that it is fair. I think I didn't make myself clear. What I had in mind is that any news posted on TL has a certain impact on the community and that the most popular thread in term of posts are often the ones containing drama. It saddens me that the staff considers its job to make it public. I don't think it's beneficial to the image of our community if we can't deal with the most simple event without causing such a ruckus. TL is the flagship of our community, and as such has a tremendous influence. While I value neutrality, I wish you (and the rest of the staff) could be more affirmative of your position. It is a thin thread to walk on but it could help us - help us beyond what could simple declaration of annoyed viewers, or irritated players could do. I agree it is not good to have as a top thread. Neither was the Naniwa probe rush topic or the one about the IPL Philippines incident. However these are issues that we cannot just ignore and pretend they didn't happen, they actually have impact and importance in discussion and will influence future things. It is important that we are open in discussing them. I think TL just needs to present the issue fairly, not sweep it under the rug because it "looks bad." That sounds fair enough in theory, but you know perfectly well what this thread will devolve into. I understand the desire to indulge in the fantasy of an aspiring jouralist from time to time, but the fact that you neglect to mention the Tyler controversy at all is suspicous at best. Catz had to risk losing to Tyler in groups, while Tyler walked out on everyone else in the group giving them free wins. Can't help but think that you're trying to exploit this drama for increased traffic while protecting your own player from the same scrutiny. Finally, some IQ.
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That sucks, really would have liked to see him win it!
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Braavos36362 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:38 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:35 Otolia wrote:On January 31 2012 09:26 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:21 Otolia wrote:On January 31 2012 09:14 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:11 Enervate wrote: I for one appreciate this being posted as news on TL. I didn't even know about this tournament or this incident beforehand so I found this thread very informative, and I'm glad I found out what happened. Hooray. I just hope there are a lot of people like you who are not posting. I hope you also understands what it says about our community that this kind of subject is hosted on the same website as the excellent GSL/PL write-ups. Not to diminish the work of the newsers, but I think TL should focus more on its excellent writing staff and let the users post the news and moderating after. I really disagree with this. Do you believe that an ONOG tournament admin, or Stephano himself, or a French national making this thread would make for better news thread? Absolutely not, it'd be entirely biased and not include all relevant information. Considering the touchy nature of the subject, the multiple sources, and the responses, I think the OP is actually quite fair in its presentation of what happened. I wasn't really discussing the quality or the opinion of the OP. You are right in that it is fair. I think I didn't make myself clear. What I had in mind is that any news posted on TL has a certain impact on the community and that the most popular thread in term of posts are often the ones containing drama. It saddens me that the staff considers its job to make it public. I don't think it's beneficial to the image of our community if we can't deal with the most simple event without causing such a ruckus. TL is the flagship of our community, and as such has a tremendous influence. While I value neutrality, I wish you (and the rest of the staff) could be more affirmative of your position. It is a thin thread to walk on but it could help us - help us beyond what could simple declaration of annoyed viewers, or irritated players could do. I agree it is not good to have as a top thread. Neither was the Naniwa probe rush topic or the one about the IPL Philippines incident. However these are issues that we cannot just ignore and pretend they didn't happen, they actually have impact and importance in discussion and will influence future things. It is important that we are open in discussing them. I think TL just needs to present the issue fairly, not sweep it under the rug because it "looks bad." That sounds fair enough in theory, but you know perfectly well what this thread will devolve into. I understand the desire to indulge in the fantasy of an aspiring jouralist from time to time, but the fact that you neglect to mention the Tyler controversy at all is suspicous at best. Catz had to risk losing to Tyler in groups, while Tyler walked out on everyone else in the group giving them free wins. Can't help but think that you're trying to exploit this drama for increased traffic while protecting your own player from the same scrutiny. First, I don't think I need to disprove some sort of conspiracy here about increased traffic when we could easily news random BS about fangirls or other image macros. This is a very relevant issue that impacts competitive SC2, it's a relatively large (3k prize, many viewer) tournament. It's at the heart of our scene.
Second, I don't know what more I can say about Tyler forfeiting, I don't know what happened. He could have just not felt like playing, which is really bad and he shouldn't have accepted his invite. He could have had an emergency, which then forfeiting is completely fine. I do believe that he should give an explanation. I don't know what more to add.
Lastly, just because a thread has the potential to cause a lot of arguments doesn't mean its not worth discussing. We are a forum and there is discussion here. As long as we moderate properly and keep the discourse civil, I believe this sort of discussion ultimately leads to better results in the future. More information, free discussion, this is always good when kept free from flamers, racism, insults, etc.
There are a lot of touchy subjects that people might not like, like steroids in sports or cheating or other more serious issues, but they should always be discussed. It is our responsibility to present the facts, only then can this stuff be improved upon.
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Braavos36362 Posts
Again, I don't understand how people can call this irrelevant drama, because while it is dramatic, it is very relevant to the competitive StarCraft scene which our website is all about.
Let me ask you this if the best player forfeiting in the finals of the biggest tournament that weekend is NOT news but drama, what qualifies as actual news? This situation is absolutely worth a thread and not because it's some "drama mongering." It's not like there's a Community News thread about Stephano cursing on stream or staring at pictures of a girl's breasts.
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well what can you do if the guy needs to sleep i bet if he asked before tournament when it ends tournament wouldnt know so how can he know he will be able to play finals or not
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On January 31 2012 09:32 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:27 dsousa wrote:On January 31 2012 09:24 lee365 wrote: Meh If Korean players can stay up till early in the morning to play all their games in foreign tournaments than Stephano should be able to as well. because if he doesn't.... IT WILL BE TOP NEWS ON TL! This link in the top left hand side, will probably be there for 3 days. Its that big a deal! Its up there with MLG dates, MLG player lists, guy joining new teams..... Stephano's tired and can't play..... alert the media! Release the hounds! need to make sure all the tournament organizers know so that they won't invite him to future, invite-only tournaments. thanks tl.net for making this happen!!
Tournament organizers will still invite him regardless what happened here. They will take into consideration that this happened but they will definitely still invite him. Stephano is just that much better than most people outside Korea,,,he attracts Viewers just like Dimaga, Idra, White-ra, Kas or Huk. ONOG had 12k+ Viewers if Stephano and Kas weren't there it would be like 6k viewers maybe tops and if MrBitter wasnt there the viewer count would decrease with maybe 1 more K. Stephano was wrong but in a way he was also right same goes for the organizers decision. Now lets talk about the real disappointment called Tyler he just Rage quit the tournament because he got owned in the first series....
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On January 31 2012 09:54 Hot_Bid wrote: Again, I don't understand how people can call this irrelevant drama, because while it is dramatic, it is very relevant to the competitive StarCraft scene which our website is all about.
Let me ask you this if the best player forfeiting in the finals of the biggest tournament that weekend is NOT news but drama, what qualifies as actual news? This situation is absolutely worth a thread and not because it's some "drama mongering." It's not like there's a Community News thread about Stephano cursing on stream or staring at pictures of a girl's breasts. How about "Kas wins ONOG" !!!!! Dont see it in headlines
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why does stephano cause such a shit storm? It's way out of proportion and what might cause such a storm? His personality. What is his personality? Well his age and nationality contributes to the personality.
To the topic at hand: What rules did ONOG have? did they make up rules on the fly?
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On January 31 2012 09:51 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:36 krisss wrote:On January 31 2012 09:18 disciple wrote:On January 31 2012 09:11 Otolia wrote:On January 31 2012 08:52 disciple wrote: A couple of hours earlier the same day I was privileged to watch a 6 hours long tennis match that epitomized the very essence of professional sport - the resilience to overcome all physical and mental challenges, the determination to win, to entertain spectators and fans regardless of fatigue and pain. Now, there's no need to compare Stephano with Djokovic and Nadal, but speaking of professionalism what Stephano did was insulting to his profession to say the least. The difference in term of incentives between a Grand Chelem (around a 1 M $) and those of the ONOG (around 1.5 K $) is significant. But that's not everything, when a professional tennis player decides to forfeit a match in a smaller tournament to preserve himself for a next one - bigger - like Tsonga often do for Rolland Garros, nobody is criticizing him for being insulting to the profession because every other person knows his body and mindset are his sole way to make money. If you don't see the problem in your opinion right now, I will just left you and the other paragons of virtue who are keen to lash the hounds onto everyone not deemed worthy of their supposed superiority that professional sport is a job which means it is about making money. When the rewards isn't worth the care, nobody will do the job ... to say the least. Stephano as well as the two players mentioned are getting paid to entertain the spectators. Whether they see themselves in this position or not it doesn't matter as winning a Grand Slam tournament or 1,5k sc event would be equally irrelevant if no one wants to watch you play. On a side note, do you really believe Djokovic or Nadal thought about the money while playing each other? The real problem to me comes from Stephanos reaction to the situation and reading a good share of the comments here its absolutely shocking for me to realize how low are the community standards for professional ethics in progaming haha, you are really comparing the prestige of a Grand Slam with a Sc2 Tournament nobody knew about before yesterday °_° And to be fair: If Djoko didnt decide to play the finals, he would still be second place with all the prize money/ATP ranking points, etc. So pretty bad call by the organizers. But who is creating the prestige of any tournament to begin with and why recreational activities like sports or computer games should become a profession? Because there's spectators interest and motivation for improvement by the players, professional players are paid to showcase their skills in front of the audience, if there is no interest there won't be fans, if there are no fans there won't be professional sport or gaming. I might be damn good at something but if no one wants to watch me whats the point ? The whole incident highlights some important issues which sooner or later should become subjects of a discussion. The tight tournament schedule is indeed one of them. The other problem has not much to do with Stephano in person as people are trying to make this look like, but is in my humble opinion relevant to the standards our community has for professional ethics in gaming. In that regard I think the situation is fairly similar to Naniwa's incident from a while ago.
"standards our community has for professional ethics in gaming"
That's pretty rich coming from a community which sustains itself on sputtering indignation at whatever minor faux pas has been commited this week.
In the grand scheme of things, this fiasco has actually been a gigantic boon for ONOG in terms of publicity and goodwill. If anything they should be thanking Stephano. And E-sports as a whole has benifitted from the creation of Idra 2.0.
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On January 31 2012 08:04 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:59 s4life wrote:On January 31 2012 07:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 31 2012 07:43 s4life wrote:On January 31 2012 07:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 31 2012 07:18 s4life wrote:On January 31 2012 07:16 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 31 2012 07:15 s4life wrote:On January 31 2012 07:07 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 31 2012 06:19 s4life wrote: [quote]
Sure, things out of control are pretty reasonable excuses not to play -- like a pulled muscle f.e. -- but come on, Stephano accepted the invitation and knew perfectly well what he was getting into, he should have planned for it.. on top of that made wait for him an hour or so.. that's just him being completely unprofessional. No, you can forfeit if you're exhausted and can't continue. Same thing as stephano. Of course you can, but in that case you absolutely pay a price for it. A professional tennis player getting exhausted and forfeiting because of it is a huge deal, it means the player is pretty irresponsible with his training, preparation and on top of that show lack of temperance. He won't get any invites anytime soon. No, actually, no one bitches about it. They point out that they have to work at their conditioning, but no one is gonna walk up to them and tell them they're unprofessional and should be punished. Actually, yes, tired players who quit because of it absolutely lose the respect of their peers, fans and organizers.. that's how it works in any sport. Djokovic retired from a major a few years back due to exhaustion. I don't ever remember a single article or thread written about how he's unprofessional and that he should be punished. Oh Nole got a lot of bad press because of it, even until now he's not really a popular player. Still, forfeiting a semifinal because of heat exhaustion is in no way comparable to the situation at hand. First, he TRIED to play but that day temperature was in the 140s F around the courts. Second, he apparently has documented breathing problems. Third, he was not the only player to forfeit because of heat exhaustion, in fact because it was such a recurrent issue the AO organizers decided to enclose the courts and install air conditioning. The hell...? K, let's stop with the tennis analogies because you don't follow tennis or at least currently. No one holds anything against djokovic for that match, especially considering how now he's basically known for his endurance and heart. Also, if someone is not fit to play, WHO ARE YOU to tell them they're fit to play? People have different standards, and the guy standing 30 yards away from djokovic on the other side did not have any problems under the same conditions. WTF? I probably have forgotten more about tennis that you'll ever know. Nole isn't really a popular player right now and one of the reasons is that, back then he was constantly forfeiting tournaments -- he had other issues like his annoying family and his long serves too -- and he wasn't really known for having temperance. He definitely is the best conditioned player right now though. Still, my main issue with your analogy is that, Djokovic at least TRIED to play and didn't just tried to bully his way through with the organizers... big difference. No, that's not the reason why he's "unpopular". He is popular, just not as much as federer and nadal who had been at the top and dominating for 5+ years. Why would people hold something against him when he's proven them wrong currently? Please find me someone who isn't a fan because of his retirement from that major. Your logic here makes no sense. Djokovic tried until he was tired. Stephano tried until he was tired. He was playing this tournament all in one day, and he made it through the semis when it ended at 2 am. How exactly did he not try?
What do you mean? he disconnected before even playing a single game in the finals. He didn't even try.
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On January 31 2012 09:50 mathsucks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:49 dsousa wrote: This story now has more posts than the MLG Winter Qualifier player list. It is the most replied story in community news, in under 8 hours.
I guess this is why the Kardashians are so important. And you're responsible for almost a full page yourself...are you making fun of people or.......? Drama brings excitement. You cannot deny this as your post count in this thread alone shows that
Its been hard work, defending Stephano from the onslaught brought on by this tabloid journalism!
I'm not making fun of people, I'm pointing out that TL is catering the the lower common denominator by making this Community News. Its completely analogous to the Kardashians being all over CNN.
Stephano didn't handle the situation as well as he could have... its as relevant to SC2 news as Kim Kardashian being married is to World News.
Both are top headlines!
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For all the haters out there. I am French also. It upsets me that people are talking bad based on his country of origin. French people happen to be very strict about time. Lunche, dinners and bedtimes are very strict and scheduled in that country. You wont see people walking the streets past midnight even in Paris. For him to be tired at the time makes sense. People need to be more respectable towards a person's culture.
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Braavos36362 Posts
On January 31 2012 09:58 KenChan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:54 Hot_Bid wrote: Again, I don't understand how people can call this irrelevant drama, because while it is dramatic, it is very relevant to the competitive StarCraft scene which our website is all about.
Let me ask you this if the best player forfeiting in the finals of the biggest tournament that weekend is NOT news but drama, what qualifies as actual news? This situation is absolutely worth a thread and not because it's some "drama mongering." It's not like there's a Community News thread about Stephano cursing on stream or staring at pictures of a girl's breasts. How about "Kas wins ONOG" !!!!! Dont see it in headlines Hopefully in a few months we will!
But for now people complain a lot about spoilers, maybe you should make a thread about how spoilers are ruining possible community news headlines.
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On January 31 2012 09:58 KenChan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:54 Hot_Bid wrote: Again, I don't understand how people can call this irrelevant drama, because while it is dramatic, it is very relevant to the competitive StarCraft scene which our website is all about.
Let me ask you this if the best player forfeiting in the finals of the biggest tournament that weekend is NOT news but drama, what qualifies as actual news? This situation is absolutely worth a thread and not because it's some "drama mongering." It's not like there's a Community News thread about Stephano cursing on stream or staring at pictures of a girl's breasts. How about "Kas wins ONOG" !!!!! Dont see it in headlines That's clearly not the big story though, the big story is obviously that a player forfeited a final of a tournament. You couldn't write an article about the winner of this tournament without mentioning Stephano's forfeit because of its relevance to the final result, but the contrary isn't true, as evidenced by this article.
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On January 31 2012 10:02 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:58 KenChan wrote:On January 31 2012 09:54 Hot_Bid wrote: Again, I don't understand how people can call this irrelevant drama, because while it is dramatic, it is very relevant to the competitive StarCraft scene which our website is all about.
Let me ask you this if the best player forfeiting in the finals of the biggest tournament that weekend is NOT news but drama, what qualifies as actual news? This situation is absolutely worth a thread and not because it's some "drama mongering." It's not like there's a Community News thread about Stephano cursing on stream or staring at pictures of a girl's breasts. How about "Kas wins ONOG" !!!!! Dont see it in headlines Hopefully in a few months we will! But for now people complain a lot about spoilers, maybe you should make a thread about how spoilers are ruining possible community news headlines.
Thank you Hot_Bid for taking the time to moderate and explain the situation to us forum-goers. I'm sure it was probably not the most enjoyable experience, but it was certainly beneficial to the community in my opinion. Just wanted to express my appreciation.
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On January 31 2012 09:45 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:39 Agathon wrote:On January 31 2012 09:19 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 09:15 Agathon wrote:On January 31 2012 08:33 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 08:21 purecarnagge wrote:On January 31 2012 06:41 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 31 2012 06:30 eYeball wrote: Waiting for another thread regarding Tyler to show up any second now, TeamLiquid Esports. I am not sure whether people are actually serious about this, do you really think that there should be a thread every time someone forfeits in a tournament? Do you truly think that "Tyler forfeits round 1 of tournament" is worth a thread by itself? It is not a notable news worthy event. The situation with Stephano in the finals of a major invitational (3k prize pool) is something that never happened before, and about a player who is one of the best (if not the best) non-Koreans. Think about what would happen in either scenario: 1. We make a thread just about Tyler forfeiting People complain because it clearly isn't news worthy. Tyler dropping out in the first round doesn't really affect the tournament. Tyler isn't winning championships and didn't forfeit in the finals. People will say its just TL "hyping another one of their players who doesn't get results" etc. 2. We don't make a thread about Tyler forfeiting People react like they are in this thread Tyler forfeiting doesn't fit in this thread, and isn't even close to the level of notability / newsworthiness that this situation with Stephano is. It seems a bit unfair and far too easy to just point and yell bias all the time. I still don't understand whether people actually believe there should be a thread about Tyler's forfeit or whether they just like finding things to complain about. If it was any other player forfeiting (not Tyler) in the first round, we still wouldn't make a thread about it. On January 31 2012 06:45 Hot_Bid wrote: I don't understand how people can say its hypocrisy that there is no thread about Tyler when if it was anyone else who forfeits first round (literally anyone, doesn't have to be Liquid) we wouldn't make a thread about it.
To summarize: 1. Anyone forfeiting first round, no thread, not newsworthy 2. One of the best foreigners forfeiting invitational right before finals, yes thread
#1 doesn't matter if it's Liquid, there wouldn't be a thread about Destiny or Flo or Incontrol or anyone else forfeiting first round, this should be obvious to anyone. There is no special treatment for Tyler. While I understand ONOGs position of wanting to clarify the situation with Stephano especially after such a lengthy delay in there schedule. I just find it completely odd that nobody wants to mention the other withdrawal from the tournament. That being Liquid Tyler. While I would like to think that Tyler understands being a professional more than most in this industry and his career. I find it rather amusing that your so quick to stick up for him, post multiple times, then offer no reason to the community. The same community that he asks to support him, his site, his team, makes $$ off of through advertising and streaming. First, I never "defended" Tyler's decision to forfeit. I only defended our decision not to make a thread about it. Look through my posts, not once have I defended the actual action. It isn't mentioned here because it shouldn't be. That's the bottom line. This is a thread about something that is worth having a news topic. I've stated why. It is interesting that you read so much bias into my posts when I never once talked about whether I approved or disapproved of his decision to withdraw. Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited, so I don't have a viewpoint on it. If it was because "he didn't feel like playing" then yes I think it's a bad decision. If it's because his friend is in the hospital, then I think it's justified. Do I believe he should state why? Yeah I do. Again, none of this is relevant to the thread at hand. If it was any other player, Incontrol, Destiny, Sase, anyone in this tournament else I'd still have the same opinion and act the same way. Of course, you wouldn't be accusing me of bias then so I wouldn't have to make this post. Lastly, the thread doesn't defend or state a viewpoint on who was right. It doesn't villainize Stephano or ONOG, and I think it does a good job of aggregating data and presenting responses and facts. It doesn't push a specific interpretation of who was right in this. Liquid has always been cleaner than the rest. They were always the guys that people gravitated towards because they did it better than the other guys, even when they weren't performing, and they always had fun. What does leaving in the 1st round have to do with being a professional. The bottom line is it isn't professional. Not offering an explanation to your supporters isn't either.
Does Tyler owe anyone an explanation? No, he doesn't. He doesn't have to do a damn thing. Your posts defending him and saying nothing when 70% of his supporters simply want to know "why?". These are the supporters paying his bills, his teams bills, and making this site one of the best on the internet.
Its just an opinion. It's not the most news worthy event but people would like to know. If people want to know then guess what...Thats NEWS!!!!!!!! OMG LIQUID TYLER IS NEWS ON TEAMLIQUID.NET. Again, I am not Tyler. I do not know why he forfeited. Do I want an explanation just like you? Yes, I would like one. What is your point? I didn't defend him, I just don't know why he forfeited. Contrary to you, I actually do think he owes fans and organizers some sort of explanation. I really feel like sometimes people just look really hard for bias when it's not there, I didn't defend Tyler's actions at all in this thread, I just defended our decision not to make a separate thread about him. We'd not make a thread if it was a player of Tyler's stature and caliber even if he was not on Liquid so I don't see the bias. "Second, I don't know why Tyler forfeited" and you know more what's in Stephano's head? I don't say that to blame you, honestly, but maybe;;;Stephano was not even tired. Maybe he just wanted to let Kas win, Kas who leaves in a poor country countrary of France, and who is universally loved (because he's...lovely) to get the money he needs, and that Stephano doesn't. How could you even know? (honestly i doubt it was the case, but, neither me, neither you really knows) Are you being serious right now? Stephano literally said he was tired, we can only take what he says at face value. He could be stopping an alien invasion instead of playing in the ONOG finals we have no idea. Great. And i think (i hope tbh) i'm not derailing the thread. I'm speaking about the reasons of it's own existence, and in the same time about the non existence of other threads like this one, exactly like you do. You're justifying the existence of this thread (and i respect that), i think i'm not out of topic.
The question remains. Why Tyler is ok (and could let his place to another player who might beat everybody, like Illusion barely did), and Stephano isn't ? Again, who said what Tyler did was ok??? I certainly didn't say it was OK. You are arguing against nobody. I only said it is not big enough to be it's own thread. Tyler is not Stephano, and first round is not finals. My question is : Why there is a thread about this Stephano's forfeit, and nothing about all the other forfeit or any bad behaviour that append every day, at least in EU online cups? By pros ! By very known and loved players ! There are plenty of reasons why. I stated so in my post. Scale, prizes, viewers, circumstances, there's a lot. You seem to be indicating this thread is a hit-job on Stephano, but it's just presenting facts. Plenty of people are defending Stephano. It's the same bashing for everybody or no bashing at all. Just few players; it doesn't make any sens to me.
We have a sentence for that in french, it's "Deux poids, deux mesures", "Two weights, two scales", "Double standards". It's not fair. It wasn't fair for me about Naniwa's drone rush drama, it's not fair now either.
I hope i expressed my point correctly, and that everybody will understand my point, even they disagree. It's not a double standard because if Tyler or Incontrol or Destiny did this we'd make a thread too. There is no conspiracy against Stephano, in fact if you actually read our news, all the writers love Stephano. It pains me that I even have to say that last sentence to justify just reporting on the facts of a situation, but yeah. Thanks for your answer, interesting, and i'm slowly getting your pov. One point i want to enlight, because it's my main point ; "Again, who said what Tyler did was ok??? I certainly didn't say it was OK. You are arguing against nobody. I only said it is not big enough to be it's own thread. Tyler is not Stephano, and first round is not finals." Who said that? The fact their is not thread about tyler on TL's main page. Just that. It's enough. No thread at all, or a thread for each/all of them. You know what i mean? Maybe some underdogs wanted to show their talents, and they would love to get the Stephano's or Tyler's place. Two places lots for 2 borning talents. Why just one guy? I would suggest a change of main topic : "Bad behaviour during ONOG". That would be fair to me. Even everybody was blaming mostly Stephano in posts. Thread is about Stephano because the fact is Stephano's actions impacted the tournament more. It's the finals, not the first round. Second, he's a more high profile player than Tyler. Tyler fans might disagree but let's be honest, Stephano wins tournaments, beats Koreans, and is one of the best foreigners. Tyler, while he shows potential and has a huge influence on Liquid simply has not had as notable or successful a career as Stephano. "Bad behavior during ONOG" isn't a fair title either because Stephano's behavior wasn't necessarily bad. That headline implies ONOG did nothing wrong, which isn't the case. I made a post here indicating that both Stephano and ONOG are partially to blame for this. Nobody is 100% right. Headlines are tricky business and should be as neutral as possible. As for lumping Tyler's forfeit in there, I do not think Tyler's situation is even worth mentioning in this thread. Again, if it was any other player (non-Liquid), I still wouldn't think it's worth mentioning. If it was Tyler in the finals and Stephano in the first round I'd still make the thread only about the finalist, whoever it was. I understand your frustration because it seems to you that the player you support (Stephano) is getting shit on in the thread, but it is not the result of biased or inaccurate reporting by TL but rather by the fans and the community who imo have a legitimate point, just as the Stephano supporters have a legitimate point as well about ONOG organization and delays.
I would say the same thing if the playesr was Sheth, Kas, Idra; Nestea, Polt, anybody ! The fact Stephano and me are french doesn't change anything.
I said the same things for Naniwa lately, but...hum...i can't even justify that it's not "frustration" because player bashing is not allowed on this forum, so i can't say what i think about Naniwa since SC2 beta. But i think you can get it
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