Stephano forfeits ONOG Finals - Page 48
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Demicore
France503 Posts
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On January 31 2012 11:59 Jibba wrote: He knows how long SC2 matches go, if it's beginning to breach when he thought he could play then he should've said that from the beginning. Asking a tournament to delay and then pulling out afterwards is completely unacceptable, imo. I don't agree with forfeiting in a finals no matter what, but to do it after making a request of a tournament is even worse. And the sports analogies seem moot, because ESPORTS is simply not near the level of professionalism of normal sports, but it's past a point of amateurism where people actually play for the enjoyment of the game/competition. I'd just like to point out that last night in DotA 2, an Australian team played a tournament all night long and lost in the grand finals at 8:30 AM their time. The first place prize was a headset, mouse, mouse pad and last generation video card. :| They obviously didn't need to, but I respect them more for it, just like we respect athletes more for playing through injuries and sickness. Outside of a few select players, tournament organizers really have most of the leverage here and I think they did the right thing, and I probably wouldn't invite him to a future event. This drama really is a mess, and Stephano isn't a draw like IdrA or some Koreans. If the prize money continues to be good, they'll still get a ton of good players. I completely agree that Stephano did not handle it correctly. However, analogy to sports should not be moot. It's not about the matter of professionalism, in my opinion, but rather simple utilitarianism. Tournaments have a reasonable responsibility to accommodate the players for one simple reason: it gives better games for the audience. Stephano playing half-awake would be a poor show. As for the tournament delaying Stephano's match, it was "earlier in the day". Stephano did not delay his match to 2 am (CET, I assume) and then forfeit, from what it looks like. I could be wrong but but the tournament delaying Stephano's match did not cost the tournament much. Apparently, there were plenty of games that were not streamed and could have made up for the content. Whereas Stephano playing at 2am would have cost him the game. This kind of uneven characterization leads me to doubt the narrative provided by the tournament. As a side note: a lot of the criticism seems to be about the level of professionalism displayed by Stephano, which I agree with. But the burden goes both ways, we also have to look at the professionalism of a tournament that did not account for the fact that games can get drawn out, and slot enough time without putting too much burden on players. Why not spread the tournament over 2 days if it was getting this drawn out? I am curious to know how long the tournament took in total. Knowing that Stephano will be playing from France (I think), everyone should have taken precautions about the time frame. None of this, however, changes the fact that Stephano needs to learn to prevent this type of a situation. I am also critical of his team for not managing his affairs better. Perhaps looking at the silver lining, but incidents like this will hammer out eSports that is still relatively new and growing. As a sport that can be played online, we will have international players who will be playing from various time zones. How we do work around that? I think it's better to work on a positive solution than to penalize and alienate international talent for not handling situations that is also new for them. It is my opinion that more talent will bring in more viewers and further grow eSports. TLDR: Rather than point fingers, we need to look at circumventing issues related to timezones and match times; given that eSports (SC2 especially) is an international phenomenon. If not, this will negatively impact the cohesion of international talent from various countries. The internet and its ability to connect players from across the globe easily is one of the advantages of eSports over traditional sports, and it will be a shame to squander it because we could not schedule things properly. | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22271 Posts
On January 31 2012 13:15 plogamer wrote: I completely agree that Stephano did not handle it correctly. However, analogy to sports should not be moot. It's not about the matter of professionalism, in my opinion, but rather simple utilitarianism. Tournaments have a reasonable responsibility to accommodate the players for one simple reason: it gives better games for the audience. Stephano playing half-awake would be a poor show. As for the tournament delaying Stephano's match, it was "earlier in the day". Stephano did not delay his match to 2 am (CET, I assume) and then forfeit, from what it looks like. I could be wrong but but the tournament delaying Stephano's match did not cost the tournament much. Apparently, there were plenty of games that were not streamed and could have made up for the content. Whereas Stephano playing at 2am would have cost him the game. This kind of uneven characterization leads me to doubt the narrative provided by the tournament. As a side note: a lot of the criticism seems to be about the level of professionalism displayed by Stephano, which I agree with. But the burden goes both ways, we also have to look at the professionalism of a tournament that did not account for the fact that games can get drawn out, and slot enough time without putting too much burden on players. Why not spread the tournament over 2 days if it was getting this drawn out? I am curious to know how long the tournament took in total. Knowing that Stephano will be playing from France (I think), everyone should have taken precautions about the time frame. None of this, however, changes the fact that Stephano needs to learn to prevent this type of a situation. I am also critical of his team for not managing his affairs better. Perhaps looking at the silver lining, but incidents like this will hammer out eSports that is still relatively new and growing. As a sport that can be played online, we will have international players who will be playing from various time zones. How we do work around that? I think it's better to work on a positive solution than to penalize and alienate international talent for not handling situations that is also new for them. It is my opinion that more talent will bring in more viewers and further grow eSports. TLDR: Rather than point fingers, we need to look at circumventing issues related to timezones and match times; given that eSports (SC2 especially) is an international phenomenon. If not, this will negatively impact the cohesion of international talent from various countries. The internet and its ability to connect players from across the globe easily is one of the advantages of eSports over traditional sports, and it will be a shame to squander it because we could not schedule things properly. I avoid threads like these nowadays because there is no point in posting and because there are just way too many idiots spouting nonsense, but your post gives me hope for the internet. I might not agree with everything you said but at least it is well argued, calm, and intelligent. I definitely agree that eSports needs to grow and learn from incidents like these and finger pointing will just make everyone needlessly angry. Just find a solution instead, right? | ||
Wolvmatt.
205 Posts
Necessary? No. Funny? Yes. I mean, come on, there is nothing more stereotypically french than forfeiting. Surrender may be more inherent to french culture than even the french language itself. User was warned for this post | ||
Demidyne
United States110 Posts
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Azurues
Malaysia5612 Posts
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Kloudi
Sweden21 Posts
On January 31 2012 13:20 Wolvmatt. wrote: "the racist coments against french people is not necessary." Necessary? No. Funny? Yes. I mean, come on, there is nothing more stereotypically french than forfeiting. Surrender may be more inherent to french culture than even the french language itself. i have a bad news for you | ||
BM_Rawbertson
43 Posts
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onedayclose
United States1145 Posts
As for the argument where a player should not be participating in simultaneous/conflicting tournaments. I feel it is souly the players responsibility to know if he can indeed participate in both events in a timely and fair fashion. He should also inform the the tournament he is entering if there could be potential conflicts. In this case it is neither the team nor the tournaments resposibility, only the player. | ||
FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
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DoX.)
Singapore6164 Posts
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Prplppleatr
United States1518 Posts
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RunnerMeep
United States79 Posts
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RedBack
Australia102 Posts
On January 31 2012 13:27 FallDownMarigold wrote: Hopefully he realizes it's not actually racist to make those "France surrenders all the time" jokes... Are the French a special race? No Yeah the French arent a race they're an ethnicity, although the way they act you wouldnt know it... i turned up to paris only speaking english.... lucky they didnt actually have pitch forks.... | ||
SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On January 31 2012 13:57 RedBack wrote: Yeah the French arent a race they're an ethnicity, although the way they act you wouldnt know it... i turned up to paris only speaking english.... lucky they didnt actually have pitch forks.... Saying French surrender a lot is no more offensive than saying Americans are fat, and TL mods let that happen alllllll the time | ||
vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
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momonami5
United States109 Posts
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Fishriot
United States621 Posts
On January 31 2012 13:20 Wolvmatt. wrote: "the racist coments against french people is not necessary." Necessary? No. Funny? Yes. I mean, come on, there is nothing more stereotypically french than forfeiting. Surrender may be more inherent to french culture than even the french language itself. As a skinny American, this made me chuckle. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13372 Posts
On January 31 2012 11:59 Jibba wrote: He knows how long SC2 matches go, if it's beginning to breach when he thought he could play then he should've said that from the beginning. Asking a tournament to delay and then pulling out afterwards is completely unacceptable, imo. I don't agree with forfeiting in a finals no matter what, but to do it after making a request of a tournament is even worse. And the sports analogies seem moot, because ESPORTS is simply not near the level of professionalism of normal sports, but it's past a point of amateurism where people actually play for the enjoyment of the game/competition. I'd just like to point out that last night in DotA 2, an Australian team played a tournament all night long and lost in the grand finals at 8:30 AM their time. The first place prize was a headset, mouse, mouse pad and last generation video card. :| They obviously didn't need to, but I respect them more for it, just like we respect athletes more for playing through injuries and sickness. Outside of a few select players, tournament organizers really have most of the leverage here and I think they did the right thing, and I probably wouldn't invite him to a future event. This drama really is a mess, and Stephano isn't a draw like IdrA or some Koreans. If the prize money continues to be good, they'll still get a ton of good players. Agreed, if anything this kind of action from stephano makes him less likely to be invited for a number of reasons. Not only was this unprofessional, but it shows he remains unpredictable in his decision making, but this kind of action hurts his popularity and this makes his ability to draw viewers less than it was before. As a tournament organizer I wouldn't want to take a chance on the wildcard that stephano seems to be and there are other players who not only will play through their games and obligations but also draw fans. Losing fans means stephano loses his bargaining power in terms of his ability to draw viewers. He isn't a Heel in the same way that Idra is people won't tune in to watch him lose. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On January 31 2012 13:15 plogamer wrote: Is it a show or a competition?I completely agree that Stephano did not handle it correctly. However, analogy to sports should not be moot. It's not about the matter of professionalism, in my opinion, but rather simple utilitarianism. Tournaments have a reasonable responsibility to accommodate the players for one simple reason: it gives better games for the audience. Stephano playing half-awake would be a poor show. If you want to see players at the tip top performance, well... quite frankly that doesn't happen in almost any sport at the end of a tournament. By the end of the season, players are worn out and injured. Stephano wouldn't be at his best, but neither would Kas and that's basically what happens in the championship of every sport. Even if it's a show, the adage "the show must go on" exists for a reason. If a star of a show brushes people away until they're absolutely ready, we usually call them a diva. I think that's what Stephano is. | ||
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