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On April 19 2012 07:43 ishyishy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 07:33 Smackzilla wrote:On April 19 2012 06:58 ishyishy wrote:I half agree. First, I think seeing your gameplay progress is *far* more satisfying than XP/item grinding. However, its much harder to do the former, and the latter is just a matter of investing more time.
That said, I really do wish there were more badges/icons/whatever that you could get from playing ladder. Sure its just bragging rights, but it makes a difference. People will play harder when they think they can get that gold star from top 8, for example.
I also wish those reqards were much more visible. Why not create the functionality to show off that stuff in the loading screen? I never really understood why those kinds of "rewards" that dont really actually do anything (achievements and the like) are saught after. I like getting rewards that I can actually use, and sc2 has none of that. Also, when I get a full new set of gear in WoW, my gameplay DOES progress, a great deal in fact, which is the point in getting the gear int he first place. Can I kill that boss or kill that other player when I have severely outdated gear? No. So I then have motivation to get new gear to defeat that player and/or boss. Yes it is an endless grind, but thats what an mmo is: an rpg that doesnt end, and when you dont enjoy it anymore you can always just quit or...make another character/class that you havent played before lol. Depends on the person, I guess. Some people like trophies and medals and those don't "do" anything. As for gear in wow, your character becomes more powerful, but how YOU play changes very little. If you're still bad, you're still pretty likely to wipe your raid. If you're bad at arena, better gear still isn't going to get you gladiator. And frankly, levels being equal, its pretty easy to kill a geared out PVE'er even in blues. I really do admit there's a difference, and I swear I'm not trying to bash WOW. MMOs provide a feeling of progression that's very safe and easy to experience. SC2 basically has leagues, division rank, and ladder points and that's it. SC2 can definitely do more in the area of "carrots" to get people to ladder. Its not a silver bullet, though, and there's a few other things I think blizz can do to encourage ladder participation and a strong community. Ok, I understand what you are saying here (ive played wow since 2005), but it is incredibly rare to see someone in end game gear that sucks at the game. I've been in several 'top' guilds on the servers ive played on, and yes some of the people get carried, but there is never more than like 2 out of the 25 in the raid that are getting carried. And even then, they arent completely retarded, just a little retarded lol. I'd like to point out a very interesting word you used: "safe". In terms of what we are discussing here, what is safe about sc2? I cant think of anything, can you? I think the only safe thing about sc2 is that it's a blizzard game an it will never run out of money lol.
The only "safe" experience I had with SC2 was playing that star battles mod (that 6v6 ship combat game). That or scrimmaging with friends in a custom. Proper sc2 ladder has never felt safe and I think it's ok that it doesnt. Sometimes that buzz of adrenaline is awesome as is the highs and lows of wins and losses. Kind of like arena in wow.
In short, I never want ladder to feel safe, but I do think there's opportunity for progression "carrots" and other important things that can make the ladder experience better.
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On April 19 2012 07:49 Smackzilla wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 07:43 ishyishy wrote:On April 19 2012 07:33 Smackzilla wrote:On April 19 2012 06:58 ishyishy wrote:I half agree. First, I think seeing your gameplay progress is *far* more satisfying than XP/item grinding. However, its much harder to do the former, and the latter is just a matter of investing more time.
That said, I really do wish there were more badges/icons/whatever that you could get from playing ladder. Sure its just bragging rights, but it makes a difference. People will play harder when they think they can get that gold star from top 8, for example.
I also wish those reqards were much more visible. Why not create the functionality to show off that stuff in the loading screen? I never really understood why those kinds of "rewards" that dont really actually do anything (achievements and the like) are saught after. I like getting rewards that I can actually use, and sc2 has none of that. Also, when I get a full new set of gear in WoW, my gameplay DOES progress, a great deal in fact, which is the point in getting the gear int he first place. Can I kill that boss or kill that other player when I have severely outdated gear? No. So I then have motivation to get new gear to defeat that player and/or boss. Yes it is an endless grind, but thats what an mmo is: an rpg that doesnt end, and when you dont enjoy it anymore you can always just quit or...make another character/class that you havent played before lol. Depends on the person, I guess. Some people like trophies and medals and those don't "do" anything. As for gear in wow, your character becomes more powerful, but how YOU play changes very little. If you're still bad, you're still pretty likely to wipe your raid. If you're bad at arena, better gear still isn't going to get you gladiator. And frankly, levels being equal, its pretty easy to kill a geared out PVE'er even in blues. I really do admit there's a difference, and I swear I'm not trying to bash WOW. MMOs provide a feeling of progression that's very safe and easy to experience. SC2 basically has leagues, division rank, and ladder points and that's it. SC2 can definitely do more in the area of "carrots" to get people to ladder. Its not a silver bullet, though, and there's a few other things I think blizz can do to encourage ladder participation and a strong community. Ok, I understand what you are saying here (ive played wow since 2005), but it is incredibly rare to see someone in end game gear that sucks at the game. I've been in several 'top' guilds on the servers ive played on, and yes some of the people get carried, but there is never more than like 2 out of the 25 in the raid that are getting carried. And even then, they arent completely retarded, just a little retarded lol. I'd like to point out a very interesting word you used: "safe". In terms of what we are discussing here, what is safe about sc2? I cant think of anything, can you? I think the only safe thing about sc2 is that it's a blizzard game an it will never run out of money lol. The only "safe" experience I had with SC2 was playing that star battles mod (that 6v6 ship combat game). That or scrimmaging with friends in a custom. Proper sc2 ladder has never felt safe and I think it's ok that it doesnt. Sometimes that buzz of adrenaline is awesome as is the highs and lows of wins and losses. Kind of like arena in wow. In short, I never want ladder to feel safe, but I do think there's opportunity for progression "carrots" and other important things that can make the ladder experience better.
Alright, well it sure seems to me like a shit ton of people want a feeling of safe progression, and not a sense of risk. I think that is the root problem for a lot of people is that there is "risk" in playing sc2 because what you 'gain' can alao be 'lost'. If 1v1 ladder needs to stay that way because it's a 'ladder' then there needs to be something else, something that doesnt have a risk and only a gain.
What if this game had something like all of the F2P games out there? Something to 'buy' with your earned points just from playing? I dont know what that something would be, but I know for a fact that F2P games live off of that sort of thing and it is a big reason why people play those kinds of games.
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On April 19 2012 06:38 ishyishy wrote: There is no point in playing 1v1 if you dont enjoy it, and a lot of people dont enjoy it. Most of the time, it is the nature of this game that is the reason.
- no player interaction: obvious right? It's 1v1. Ok, but that doesnt make this reason invalid; it isnt entertaining playing this game by yourself, and thats what 1v1 is.
- clans/community: this is one of the worst communities ive ever seen in any game that I've played over the last 10 years. I tried to join these 'clans', but all of them were full of silly kids that just joke around in their chat channel or on skype the whole time and dont actually play. And there are the ones that have lower league players that refuse to play me because "i am in diamond or masters and they would have no chance at winning" ok so apparently, even when it isnt on ladder, all people care about is winning. Shitty.
- On the surface, no sentimental value: Games like any mmorpg have a sort of automatic progessive nature to them; the more you play, the more you gain from it. To a lot of people, myself included, this game provides me with nothing of value to progress with. If I get 3 or 4 new peices of gear in WoW, my character IS going to be better overall in what ever I am doing in the game. Getting 100 ladder points doesnt do anything for me at all; I can still make mistakes, and I can still lose to things that I havent lost to in the past, and i can lose those points, whereas with an mmo I never actually lose the things I gain; I am not guaranteed to progress with anything when I play. Now I am not that big of an idiot to not understand that this is an RTS and they arent like mmorpg's, but again that does not invalidate this reason why people do not like playing this game.
- Some people just get bored easily: Again, this goes along with the sentimental value aspect of other games that this game doesnt share. Again, in games like WoW, I can keep playing and there is always something to gain that I can 'itemize' (like gear for example, or levels, or XP that cant go down, etc). In this game, I can gain a higher rank and a new shiney little icon, but the very next day I can lose it. Have you ever reached a new height, then dropped down below where you were the previous day, and then said to yourself "god damnit now I have to win X amount of games to get back to where I was" ? This creates bordem. Games like (i hate to say it) LoL are like WoW in that there is always something to gain from playing, and nothing to lose. I can play, and no matter how many times I lose, I will always GAIN points I can use to buy another character. In Sc2, I cant buy anything with my rank points, and I can lose rank points. This drives people away, believe it or not.
Some, if not all, of these things are probably not the games' fault. This isnt a bad game, I am not saying that at all. It's just a game that not everyone can get into because of it's nature.
What I take from your post is that you're not the type of person who enjoys real competition. I don't mean to be insulting about it, its just a fact. If you're looking to receive some kind of "guaranteed" positive experience then you should move on to games that sell that to players. I played WoW Vanilla through Wrath, and I was a very good player - and I remember the same kind of people getting upset about being killed (even though they rolled on a PvP server), not getting into raids, etc. IMO there will always be a pitiable underclass in a given game that, if you give them what they ask for, would destroy everything about the game that makes it worth playing.
The real reason many people quit the game is because they face off against another person and are confronted with the fact that they aren't as good - and run away.
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Speaking of WOW, and perhaps the idea of "safe", I'd love to see blizzard do a "Looking for Practice Partner" similar to WOW's "Looking for Group" feature which is pretty darn good now, I hear. A player could specify several characteristics about the kind of practice partner they want such as race, ladder league, rating, recent activity, etc. etc.
So, a silver terran could be matched with a masters zerg if they both wanted it. It might be a great way to find mentors and coaches or students. It might be a good way to try out other races "safely". Maybe you could even meet people and make friends that way since its a less competitive situation than ladder.
To keep ladder from becoming a ghost town, you could require that you have to ladder every so often to keep your classification current so you can be allowed to use LFPP. BTW, I also think its important that blizz start allowing people to have a ladder rating per race you play.
Anyway, just a thought.
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On April 19 2012 07:57 Almonjin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 06:38 ishyishy wrote: There is no point in playing 1v1 if you dont enjoy it, and a lot of people dont enjoy it. Most of the time, it is the nature of this game that is the reason.
- no player interaction: obvious right? It's 1v1. Ok, but that doesnt make this reason invalid; it isnt entertaining playing this game by yourself, and thats what 1v1 is.
- clans/community: this is one of the worst communities ive ever seen in any game that I've played over the last 10 years. I tried to join these 'clans', but all of them were full of silly kids that just joke around in their chat channel or on skype the whole time and dont actually play. And there are the ones that have lower league players that refuse to play me because "i am in diamond or masters and they would have no chance at winning" ok so apparently, even when it isnt on ladder, all people care about is winning. Shitty.
- On the surface, no sentimental value: Games like any mmorpg have a sort of automatic progessive nature to them; the more you play, the more you gain from it. To a lot of people, myself included, this game provides me with nothing of value to progress with. If I get 3 or 4 new peices of gear in WoW, my character IS going to be better overall in what ever I am doing in the game. Getting 100 ladder points doesnt do anything for me at all; I can still make mistakes, and I can still lose to things that I havent lost to in the past, and i can lose those points, whereas with an mmo I never actually lose the things I gain; I am not guaranteed to progress with anything when I play. Now I am not that big of an idiot to not understand that this is an RTS and they arent like mmorpg's, but again that does not invalidate this reason why people do not like playing this game.
- Some people just get bored easily: Again, this goes along with the sentimental value aspect of other games that this game doesnt share. Again, in games like WoW, I can keep playing and there is always something to gain that I can 'itemize' (like gear for example, or levels, or XP that cant go down, etc). In this game, I can gain a higher rank and a new shiney little icon, but the very next day I can lose it. Have you ever reached a new height, then dropped down below where you were the previous day, and then said to yourself "god damnit now I have to win X amount of games to get back to where I was" ? This creates bordem. Games like (i hate to say it) LoL are like WoW in that there is always something to gain from playing, and nothing to lose. I can play, and no matter how many times I lose, I will always GAIN points I can use to buy another character. In Sc2, I cant buy anything with my rank points, and I can lose rank points. This drives people away, believe it or not.
Some, if not all, of these things are probably not the games' fault. This isnt a bad game, I am not saying that at all. It's just a game that not everyone can get into because of it's nature. What I take from your post is that you're not the type of person who enjoys real competition. I don't mean to be insulting about it, its just a fact. If you're looking to receive some kind of "guaranteed" positive experience then you should move on to games that sell that to players. I played WoW Vanilla through Wrath, and I was a very good player - and I remember the same kind of people getting upset about being killed (even though they rolled on a PvP server), not getting into raids, etc. IMO there will always be a pitiable underclass in a given game that, if you give them what they ask for, would destroy everything about the game that makes it worth playing. The real reason many people quit the game is because they face off against another person and are confronted with the fact that they aren't as good - and run away.
Yep, you are 100% correct, I do not like being a part of competition. I just want the games that I play to be a relaxing and enjoyable experience, thats all I want. However, one of my reasons for hating 1v1 is the fact that there is no sort of "continuation" of gameplay between games or between sessions. Every time I log on, I start from square 1, 6 workers and a base. Maybe I just dont like the rts genre, because this is one of the major contributers of why I get bored after playing 1 game of sc2 lol. Even 4v4 is getting boring now...
Aside from that, I have literally no one to share this game with. 0 of my real life friends have any interest in sc2 at all, and yes they are all gamers of some sort. I cant just "make friends" online, and especially in sc2. It just doesnt work that way. After I get done 4 gating someone on ladder, I can message them afterwards and say "hey do you want to be my friend and play games w/ me?!?!" and the only thing they will say is "fuck off" lol. It is hard to "make friends" online in any game, but when you try and do it in a virtually single player game like sc2, it becomes impossible.
Also when you think about it, all you ever interact with are the ones in your league or around your mmr, theres thousands of people you will never see or speak to in all other leagues that could be potencial "friends" but you will never get the chance to talk to those people.
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On April 19 2012 08:11 ishyishy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 07:57 Almonjin wrote:On April 19 2012 06:38 ishyishy wrote: There is no point in playing 1v1 if you dont enjoy it, and a lot of people dont enjoy it. Most of the time, it is the nature of this game that is the reason.
- no player interaction: obvious right? It's 1v1. Ok, but that doesnt make this reason invalid; it isnt entertaining playing this game by yourself, and thats what 1v1 is.
- clans/community: this is one of the worst communities ive ever seen in any game that I've played over the last 10 years. I tried to join these 'clans', but all of them were full of silly kids that just joke around in their chat channel or on skype the whole time and dont actually play. And there are the ones that have lower league players that refuse to play me because "i am in diamond or masters and they would have no chance at winning" ok so apparently, even when it isnt on ladder, all people care about is winning. Shitty.
- On the surface, no sentimental value: Games like any mmorpg have a sort of automatic progessive nature to them; the more you play, the more you gain from it. To a lot of people, myself included, this game provides me with nothing of value to progress with. If I get 3 or 4 new peices of gear in WoW, my character IS going to be better overall in what ever I am doing in the game. Getting 100 ladder points doesnt do anything for me at all; I can still make mistakes, and I can still lose to things that I havent lost to in the past, and i can lose those points, whereas with an mmo I never actually lose the things I gain; I am not guaranteed to progress with anything when I play. Now I am not that big of an idiot to not understand that this is an RTS and they arent like mmorpg's, but again that does not invalidate this reason why people do not like playing this game.
- Some people just get bored easily: Again, this goes along with the sentimental value aspect of other games that this game doesnt share. Again, in games like WoW, I can keep playing and there is always something to gain that I can 'itemize' (like gear for example, or levels, or XP that cant go down, etc). In this game, I can gain a higher rank and a new shiney little icon, but the very next day I can lose it. Have you ever reached a new height, then dropped down below where you were the previous day, and then said to yourself "god damnit now I have to win X amount of games to get back to where I was" ? This creates bordem. Games like (i hate to say it) LoL are like WoW in that there is always something to gain from playing, and nothing to lose. I can play, and no matter how many times I lose, I will always GAIN points I can use to buy another character. In Sc2, I cant buy anything with my rank points, and I can lose rank points. This drives people away, believe it or not.
Some, if not all, of these things are probably not the games' fault. This isnt a bad game, I am not saying that at all. It's just a game that not everyone can get into because of it's nature. What I take from your post is that you're not the type of person who enjoys real competition. I don't mean to be insulting about it, its just a fact. If you're looking to receive some kind of "guaranteed" positive experience then you should move on to games that sell that to players. I played WoW Vanilla through Wrath, and I was a very good player - and I remember the same kind of people getting upset about being killed (even though they rolled on a PvP server), not getting into raids, etc. IMO there will always be a pitiable underclass in a given game that, if you give them what they ask for, would destroy everything about the game that makes it worth playing. The real reason many people quit the game is because they face off against another person and are confronted with the fact that they aren't as good - and run away. Yep, you are 100% correct, I do not like being a part of competition. I just want the games that I play to be a relaxing and enjoyable experience, thats all I want. However, one of my reasons for hating 1v1 is the fact that there is no sort of "continuation" of gameplay between games or between sessions. Every time I log on, I start from square 1, 6 workers and a base. Maybe I just dont like the rts genre, because this is one of the major contributers of why I get bored after playing 1 game of sc2 lol. Even 4v4 is getting boring now... Aside from that, I have literally no one to share this game with. 0 of my real life friends have any interest in sc2 at all, and yes they are all gamers of some sort. I cant just "make friends" online, and especially in sc2. It just doesnt work that way. After I get done 4 gating someone on ladder, I can message them afterwards and say "hey do you want to be my friend and play games w/ me?!?!" and the only thing they will say is "fuck off" lol. It is hard to "make friends" online in any game, but when you try and do it in a virtually single player game like sc2, it becomes impossible. Also when you think about it, all you ever interact with are the ones in your league or around your mmr, theres thousands of people you will never see or speak to in all other leagues that could be potencial "friends" but you will never get the chance to talk to those people.
So I suppose my question to you then is, why are you playing this game with the expectation that it will provide the things for you that you enjoyed in a casual MMORPG? Alot of legitimate issues have been brought up with Sc2 in this thread but I get the impression that what people are really upset about is that they're done with Warcraft and come to this game expecting more of the same. I suppose it has to do with the fact that the mass marketing of WoW brought something like 6 million new gamers into the fold - many of whom have no experience with online games outside World of Warcraft.
So your response confuses me on a number of levels. If you played EVE Online - another MMORPG - you would absolutely hate it because you can be hunted down, griefed, and killed like a dog. You can lose the equivalent of thousands of $ worth of in-game currency in a scam and everyone will just laugh at you. You wouldn't play that game, of the same genre, so why are you coming here and expecting a game in a completely different genre to provide you with the same kind of experience?
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I don't play 1v1 neither (is this well written? :S), mainly because I hate losing. I think that one thing that would keep me motivated would be a real ladder system. I mean, just one ladder for everyone, without leagues nor divisions. And including silly statistics for every player could also be interesting (win rate, highest rank achieved, matchup specific winrates...). Somewhere where I could see: You are ranked 24.476/78.648. I don't know, those are silly things but they would make it easier to compare my current status with my friends from different leagues right now. IMO the actual system is too competitive.
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i play 1v1.
i'm competitive. i'm willing to grind. i'm willing to spend the time to get better. i'm not a quitter.
i seriously just don't get like half the reasons people give for not playing 1v1.
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On April 19 2012 10:15 darthfoley wrote: i play 1v1.
i'm competitive. i'm willing to grind. i'm willing to spend the time to get better. i'm not a quitter.
i seriously just don't get like half the reasons people give for not playing 1v1.
no offense but nobody cares about you in here...
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On April 19 2012 11:15 freakhill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 10:15 darthfoley wrote: i play 1v1.
i'm competitive. i'm willing to grind. i'm willing to spend the time to get better. i'm not a quitter.
i seriously just don't get like half the reasons people give for not playing 1v1. no offense but nobody cares about you in here...
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I'm really looking forward to what Heart of the Swarm will bring. There's so much potential for so much improvement. I mean if they just take some things from bloodline champions, warcraft 3, and league of legends, it would go a really long ways.
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On April 19 2012 11:15 freakhill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 10:15 darthfoley wrote: i play 1v1.
i'm competitive. i'm willing to grind. i'm willing to spend the time to get better. i'm not a quitter.
i seriously just don't get like half the reasons people give for not playing 1v1. no offense but nobody cares about you in here...
no offense, but he's probably better than you.
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Get ready for something big. I think the reality is that not everyone is competitive, and StarCraft is a competitive game. Some people are really just better off playing other games that suit their "no-losing only happy" desire in a game and have a good time. I've played MMOs for nearly 8 years and I'm happy to say that I've now found a game that requires less time and more cognitive thinking and mechanics (actually making use of my 130$ keyboard+mouse) than what I had in most other MMOs.
While I would like to see a lot of changes to Bnet to increase social aspects, I dont think that's going to necessarily bring more players into 1v1s. Maybe custom games if anything, but major social changes to a game have more effect on MMO and don't really change the competitiveness of a game that is essentially PvP.
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On April 19 2012 11:36 Quesadilla wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 11:15 freakhill wrote:On April 19 2012 10:15 darthfoley wrote: i play 1v1.
i'm competitive. i'm willing to grind. i'm willing to spend the time to get better. i'm not a quitter.
i seriously just don't get like half the reasons people give for not playing 1v1. no offense but nobody cares about you in here... no offense, but he's probably better than you.
does this very probable fact have any kind of relevance to the topic under consideration?
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On April 19 2012 07:03 Creem wrote: The reason I hardly log in anymore is the complete lack of social interaction in-game (cause of the atrociously bad chat system). It's really not fun to play a multiplayer game in singleplayer mode. My avatar feels more confined than a prisoner in a high security prison (I stole this line from someone else, but its really true). Yeah this! I can play BW or LoL for hours and not bored. But after a year of SC2, things start to get bored like 6 months ago. Even if I win I feel nothing . Its like you are alone in the jungle, so even if you slain a tiger it doesn't matter. SC2 Bnet is just like a confined coffin where you stay in it, die slowly and nothing more. I make little to no friends in one year journey in SC2 while I have a lot of buddy in BW.
Recently, I just log on SC2 to play placement matches for each season or play some 2v2/ 3v3 with my friends and thats about it.
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On April 19 2012 11:39 freakhill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 11:36 Quesadilla wrote:On April 19 2012 11:15 freakhill wrote:On April 19 2012 10:15 darthfoley wrote: i play 1v1.
i'm competitive. i'm willing to grind. i'm willing to spend the time to get better. i'm not a quitter.
i seriously just don't get like half the reasons people give for not playing 1v1. no offense but nobody cares about you in here... no offense, but he's probably better than you. does this very probable fact have any kind of relevance to the topic under consideration? what are you doing then? simply whining? no one cares, leave.
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I stopped playing dota for a year or two to play sc2. Unfortunately, sc2 was never as fun as dota was for me. The units and their interaction with each other just felt too rigid. There is not enough you can do with your units during battles for it to feel really enjoyable. 1v1 also gets really repetitive. Didn't matter who I was playing against, I could pretty much expect them all to do the same openings and same mid game strategies. In a game with so little to do in the early game, this just makes is incredibly boring to me after awhile. You also can't really play with your friends in sc2. 2v2/3v3, etc just really aren't all that fun, and playing 1v1 against someone worse or better than you just results in a stomp. I enjoyed sc2 while I played it, but I have no desire to play it again, and I don't think HotS will change that for me. Dota always felt like a more challenging game compared to sc2 for me, as well as having much greater variety between matches. You can just do whatever you feel like in dota, but not so much in sc2.
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The thing is, you need to give people something to work towards that's both attainable and worth it.
Things like #1 division were supposed to do that, but in reality that's backfired because anyone introducing themselves as "top silver" becomes a laughingstock. For a guy in silver, his number means nothing, and he's probably only a little interested in even getting into gold. What he really wants is diamond, because that's where he'll feel like he's really got it. What he really doesn't want is to be demoted back into bronze, because then he's a complete failure.
But diamond is three leagues away, and bronze is right there, breathing down his neck, creeping closer every time he loses, waiting to pounce. So, even subconsciously, he gives up, because he's probably never going to achieve his goal but he's in serious danger of realizing his fear. His risk/reward is badly skewed.
Personally I think the answer is to merge bronze-platinum into one big single league, with just an ELO-type ranking.
We're at the point where the lower leagues are treated simply as different grades of fail, and once something becomes a stick instead of a carrot there's no use for it anymore. With one big lower league, there's no more risk of being demoted until you're already proven competitive. The reward is suddenly closer in your head, and the risk is more or less gone.
EDIT: wow, pretty sure I could have done better for my 1000th post...
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i seriously dont understand the logic behind everyone saying blah blah UI sucks cant make friends blah blah.. Just some facts, 1. I started playing this game Jan 2012 2. Was placed in bronze, got better, now Plat almost diamond. 3. Met some awesome people who i talk to daily in a clan now. 4. 1v1 is amazing fun, putting all the skills you have to maximum power and trying to out play your opponent.
No reason to complain saying its not fun, not rewarding, and its always the same. every game and ever person is different and you never play the same game twice
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i kinda stopped playing cause i dont like how the metagame has shifted . i still watch the game and log on now and then to do a few customs. I still really do like starcraft, but saying it and playing it is 2 different things.
maybe it is because of the race i play, but it seems to me that due to poor game design choices. It really does end up with 2 balls colliding and the winner of that engagements gos on to win the game.
Why does sc2 have such a "ball" problem, its because none of the units were designed to be good just by themselfs. All units need support from other units. Some units that were good bythemselfs in Broodwar was the vulture/Lurker.
lets take a look at some of the abilities in the game that "cause turtling"and promote stale gameplay .
-force field -concus shell -fungal growth -offensive blink after bad engagement from opponent, is on the same level as consussive ( you will loose alot of units retreating)
TVP as a terran, i know that the only time i can realistically push a protoss outside of a 2 barracks marine rush from the get go, is when i reach medicvacs or i scout some absolutely terrible build order. Most of the time you can only truely leave your base when you get the first set of medicvacs. Hell some protoss just camp your ramp with forcefields and the only way to get around that is by 100% going medivacs.
Forcefields have destroyed the early game of TvP . It has also made it one of the most boring matchups to spectate. Now the fault does not only lie within protoss. If protoss trys to push early on terran. They too will be fucked over because of concuss shells on marauders. Basically nobody can realistically attack eachother in the first 8 or 9 minutes of the game outside of an ALL in because its to risky. you can do a 2 rax push, but that has serious problems of its own in the middle stages of the game and is in general a phased out build. Its map specific so almost 90% of the time the matchup only starts when the first 2 medicvacs arrive and you got stim.
Then in the late game, balancing viking production according to colosus production feels really gamblish. Many times ive been in positions where i have overmade vikings and just got rolled on the ground because toss decided to not make any more colosus. This is pretty significant problem in the matchup and it decides so many games its not funny. What is the problem? if terran knows how many colosus you have , he can 100 % counter your army . If terran has no clue how much colosus you have. You just roll over and die because vikings are absolute garbage in ground mode.
The only thing i like about tvp, is that its a very simple matchup. MMMGV.
TvZ. Now tvz used to be fun, but since the meta game has changed to mass ground from zerg . Again i find my self having to play turtleish styles once again because as we all know, ground heavy zergs crush timing pushes like nothing. Those 3 tank marine push are useless. This isnt my complaint. As i do find it was cheesy that a 3 tank marine push could crush a zerg before. The problem i have is that once again the matchup does not realistically start till the 9-10 minute mark outside of a 2 rax opening. So here we are again going 2 or 3 bases before really ever engaging.
Fungal growth is pretty rage inducing. I know zerg absolutely needs that ability . But to see 30-40 marines or 6 medicvacs go down to chain fungals makes my blood boil lol. Once again i feel this matchup really only starts till your first 2 medicavs come out. Going fast meds have they own problems as well. Since now zerg can roach bane ling all in you if you dont get fast tanks. So there is a little bit of coin flipping. Then you have the whole broodlord situation where even up to now i dont actually know what is the counter to broodlord/infestor. Sometimes i beat it by muscling threw them with marines and vikings. Other times i just roll over helplessly and die. What is the counter to broodlords?
TvT well its the only matchup i truely find to be balanced.But the part i hate most about tvt is when the tank wars really start to get ridiculous and nobody can truely do any sort of damage. Happened alot on maps that can be evenly split. After you have done a 40 minute tvt. I find myself sweating in relief its over. Thats not actually a good feeling you should have for a game if you know what i mean. Thats why i really like the idea of the Neuclar lauch missile to break tank wars blizzard has announced for HOTS.
My point is, threw bad game design. Some of these matches arent as fun as it could be. The main problem sc2 has, is the fact that none of the units (for terran atleast since im a terran user) seem to be any good bythemselfs. i know some scrub is going to come here and say mass marines . But thats absolute bullshit. Mass marines with MEDICVACS is 2 units, not 1.
so anyway, if forcefield /concuss shell were removed. And a unit with a spider mine laying ability came in, i would be really happy for heart of the swarm. Remove the plantery fortress if you have to. Just give me a spider mine laying unit.
Despite what i said here, I still play a couple times a week and i still do find sc2 is a good game. It just could be better with more thought out game design decisions.
For instance, if the vulture were to come in. That is actually a unit that is active the entire game. It can be used to trap counter attacking paths, it will make mech more viable in tvp . Bringing in that unit is a godsend for terran.
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