We’ve announced a lot of new information in the past 24 hours. We know it’s a lot to absorb, and you probably have a lot of questions. To make sure you know all you need to know, we’ve assembled a list of answers to all your most frequently asked questions. For example: will the Winter Arena streams have ads? No. Will Gold Members get a discount on Winter Arena passes? Yes. There’s a lot more; read on.
The Premium Viewing Page: a brand new way of watching StarCraft 2. We took last year’s Quadview and went crazy with it.
Watch up to all five streams at once
Get quick access to brackets, schedule, liveblog, chat, and more
Instantly switch audio tracks and reposition each stream on the page; customize your own experience
Go and check out the demo page and see it for yourself. If you still have questions, check out the full explanation of the page’s features.
3. Can I buy a pass now?
Yes! Just head here. You’ll need to sign up for a Justin.tv account if you don't already have one (you can’t use your MLG ID).
4. How much gameplay am I going to get to see?
We are streaming every single match from the entire tournament, live, with commentary, across four streams. It’s at least 20 hours of StarCraft 2 on each of the four streams (not counting the Dr Pepper Ultimate Access stream), spread out over three days.
The MLG Central Stream: the highly polished content you’ve come to expect from the Pro Circuit
Three Gameplay streams: constant action and commentary from some of the best up-and-coming StarCraft 2 casters
5. Will you be streaming anything besides gameplay?
Yes. We’ll have 32 of the world’s best players right here in our studio, in addition to a bunch of leading members of the scene, and we want you to feel like you’re right in the room with them. The Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access stream will be running all throughout the Arena, featuring candid footage, interviews, chats and more live from the Dr Pepper Player Lounge.
6. Will there be ads on the Arena streams?
The main stream and all of the gameplay streams will not have ads. The Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access stream will run ads.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
where can you go for tech support? for example i just tried the demo page but i had audio for all the streams at the same time... Also when clicking on the window of the smaller streams, it should move that to the main windows, Not open that stream by itself in another window...
I know that is a button to move it to main screen but its only natural to click the stream you want instead of a button next to the remove button...
Frequently asked question is how much is costs? Really? Here I was thinking people were upset about it or something but it turns out people didn't even know... This is just a repeat of what it says in the original post of this, just more links for me to buy it :/ I'm interested though, surely the 20hrs must mean on every stream and not 4hrs per stream during those three days? Just making sure...
At exactly what point will you be slashing the cost of the arena ticket to shore up viewer numbers?
A) 1 hour before tournament start B) 5 minutes into Day 1 C) Start of Day 2 D) Start of Day 3 E) Some kind of free promo offer with one of your sponsors. F) All of the above
Any information you can provide relating to this would be helpful in advance.
On February 15 2012 07:53 Xcobidoo wrote: Frequently asked question is how much is costs? Really? Here I was thinking people were upset about it or something but it turns out people didn't even know... This is just a repeat of what it says in the original post of this, just more links for me to buy it :/ I'm interested though, surely the 20hrs must mean on every stream and not 4hrs per stream during those three days? Just making sure...
Correct. Friday and Saturday will have enough matches to populate all 4 screen concurrently, so it is actually more total stream time than 20 hours if you added it all together. Once the bracket whittles down on Sunday, we'll be changing what is showcased on the 3 other streams as there are less available matches.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
On February 15 2012 07:53 TheAssclown wrote: where can you go for tech support? for example i just tried the demo page but i had audio for all the streams at the same time... Also when clicking on the window of the smaller streams, it should move that to the main windows, Not open that stream by itself in another window...
I know that is a button to move it to main screen but its only natural to click the stream you want instead of a button next to the remove button...
Hey TheAssClown,
I wrote up a dev blog here that should address most of your issues. The short of it is that we're aware of all of the problems you mentioned and will have fixes in place before the Arena. If you check out this link below, you can see exactly what we know is missing now and what we plan to add before next week. I hope that helps!
On February 15 2012 07:53 Xcobidoo wrote: Frequently asked question is how much is costs? Really? Here I was thinking people were upset about it or something but it turns out people didn't even know... This is just a repeat of what it says in the original post of this, just more links for me to buy it :/ I'm interested though, surely the 20hrs must mean on every stream and not 4hrs per stream during those three days? Just making sure...
Correct. Friday and Saturday will have enough matches to populate all 4 screen concurrently, so it is actually more total stream time than 20 hours if you added it all together. Once the bracket whittles down on Sunday, we'll be changing what is showcased on the 3 other streams as there are less available matches.
Ok cool, but why not have that as a selling point when we're most likely getting at least 40-50hrs(maybe?) of SC2-action provided as near-instant vods?
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
What different outcome scenarios from making this event PPV do you predict could happen? What would be the result on future MLG events depending on the different possible outcomes?
Is there any way MLG could change their format so that it is not a 48 hour SC2 marathon? Who really wants to waste a weekend watching some games and watching the crowd the other half the time? Also, why did you guys pay to fly all the competitors out when you weren't even sure you would have an audience for them to perform before?
Either way $20 is way to much for a weekend event.
On February 15 2012 08:05 Rabbet wrote: Is there any way MLG could change their format so that it is not a 48 hour SC2 marathon? Who really wants to waste a weekend watching some games and watching the crowd the other half the time? Also, why did you guys pay to fly all the competitors out when you weren't even sure you would have an audience for them to perform before?
Either way $20 is way to much for a weekend event.
Its not 48 hours straight to be fair. It is 3 days with 6-8 hour schedules each. But I do hear you on the length of schedule.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
I have to disagree. Online tournaments are a waste of time.
On February 15 2012 07:53 TheAssclown wrote: where can you go for tech support? for example i just tried the demo page but i had audio for all the streams at the same time... Also when clicking on the window of the smaller streams, it should move that to the main windows, Not open that stream by itself in another window...
I know that is a button to move it to main screen but its only natural to click the stream you want instead of a button next to the remove button...
Hey TheAssClown,
I wrote up a dev blog here that should address most of your issues. The short of it is that we're aware of all of the problems you mentioned and will have fixes in place before the Arena. If you check out this link below, you can see exactly what we know is missing now and what we plan to add before next week. I hope that helps!
On February 15 2012 07:53 TheAssclown wrote: where can you go for tech support? for example i just tried the demo page but i had audio for all the streams at the same time... Also when clicking on the window of the smaller streams, it should move that to the main windows, Not open that stream by itself in another window...
I know that is a button to move it to main screen but its only natural to click the stream you want instead of a button next to the remove button...
Hey TheAssClown,
I wrote up a dev blog here that should address most of your issues. The short of it is that we're aware of all of the problems you mentioned and will have fixes in place before the Arena. If you check out this link below, you can see exactly what we know is missing now and what we plan to add before next week. I hope that helps!
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
I'm not talking about players having lag spikes, I'm talking about guys in Korea playing cross server and playing at a worse latency than their opponent. Its not a fair tournament. Online is just not as good man.
Thank you for trying to explain this to us MLG, but don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with what you are doing, if it requires 5-7 'announcements' for people to understand what you are trying to do with just this 1 event? I feel like alot of the 'hate' that you guys are currently getting from different parts of the community, could have been adverted or at least reduced quite alot, if information was given out in a more organised and timely fashion.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
I have to disagree. Online tournaments are a waste of time.
To you perhaps, but online tournaments are very cost effective and we have the software to get live interviews after the matches.
A lot of tournaments do this including the TSL.
MLG isn't doing any favors for themselves. Only the players and other personalities so whenever they get the call they'll say, "Sure! I'd love to come down to fill-in-the-blank MLG tournament. They treat me so nice!"
Other than player schmoozing I don't see whatelse they're getting from it by flying all of them down there. I can see several guys getting very little air time and not only that. How the heck are you going to market them all? Where is the exposure coming from?
I'm sure all the sponsors of the pro teams are very happy with this news as MLG is picking up the check. I guess they hope to receive more sponsorship deals out of this.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
I'm not talking about players having lag spikes, I'm talking about guys in Korea playing cross server and playing at a worse latency than their opponent. Its not a fair tournament. Online is just not as good man.
Well aware of the issues with cross-realm play (ideally EU to KR and vice versa). This still doesn't solve the other major issues though.
One of the problems MLG is facing is finding a way to generate more revenue. You aren't helping yourself when you spend a ridiculous amount of money on the players to fly them in when you're limiting their exposure opportunities. It's bad business.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
I have to disagree. Online tournaments are a waste of time.
To you perhaps, but online tournaments are very cost effective and we have the software to get live interviews after the matches.
A lot of tournaments do this including the TSL.
MLG isn't doing any favors for themselves. Only the players and other personalities so whenever they get the call they'll say, "Sure! I'd love to come down to fill-in-the-blank MLG tournament. They treat me so nice!"
Other than player schmoozing I don't see whatelse they're getting from it by flying all of them down there. I can see several guys getting very little air time and not only that. How the heck are you going to market them all? Where is the exposure coming from?
As someone else said, they are getting a fair tournament. On line tournies are good fun, but not for real competition. When lag happens at live events at least generally both parties are effected equally, or it is a lot easier to improve/fix the problems. I would never consider any tournament a real test of competition worth any decent(10k+) amounts of money if it was online, to many variables. Live events are very different, and far more important. Even the HSC, with its super relaxed atmosphere, is far more legitimate than anyone finals online, in my opinion. And obviously, in the opinions of most people who run tournaments, as they usually are live if they are big.
Sundance will join Live On Three tomorrow as the first guests of the new year to discuss all details on the Winter Arena and PPV, which will have questions not included in the FAQ. Columbus and any other 2012 answers I can wrangle out as well.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
I have to disagree. Online tournaments are a waste of time.
To you perhaps, but online tournaments are very cost effective and we have the software to get live interviews after the matches.
A lot of tournaments do this including the TSL.
MLG isn't doing any favors for themselves. Only the players and other personalities so whenever they get the call they'll say, "Sure! I'd love to come down to fill-in-the-blank MLG tournament. They treat me so nice!"
Other than player schmoozing I don't see whatelse they're getting from it by flying all of them down there. I can see several guys getting very little air time and not only that. How the heck are you going to market them all? Where is the exposure coming from?
What they're getting is a fair tournament. There's debate over the magnitude, but any online tournament puts people not o that server at a meaningful disadvantage. It's something we can make do with for some things, but no tournament that's not in-person has a hope of getting the real top-prestige-level reputation.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
I'm not talking about players having lag spikes, I'm talking about guys in Korea playing cross server and playing at a worse latency than their opponent. Its not a fair tournament. Online is just not as good man.
Well aware of the issues with cross-realm play (ideally EU to KR and vice versa). This still doesn't solve the other major issues though.
One of the problems MLG is facing is finding a way to generate more revenue. You aren't helping yourself when you spend a ridiculous amount of money on the players to fly them in when you're limiting their exposure opportunities. It's bad business.
And you tournament isn't looked at as seriously when its online. Its funny you bring up TSL. Remember we were all like hey look foreigners are just as good! But soon after found out that no, playing cross server really fucks things up. And TL flew the players in to NY for the finals too btw
I want to see MVP and Nestea play at their best, having everyone in NY allows that. And to me, its worth 20.
Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't see where it says the price if you have a gold membership. Also, while you're here, I take it the rest of the Global Invitational vods are never going to be uploaded...?
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
I have to disagree. Online tournaments are a waste of time.
To you perhaps, but online tournaments are very cost effective and we have the software to get live interviews after the matches.
A lot of tournaments do this including the TSL.
MLG isn't doing any favors for themselves. Only the players and other personalities so whenever they get the call they'll say, "Sure! I'd love to come down to fill-in-the-blank MLG tournament. They treat me so nice!"
Other than player schmoozing I don't see whatelse they're getting from it by flying all of them down there. I can see several guys getting very little air time and not only that. How the heck are you going to market them all? Where is the exposure coming from?
As someone else said, they are getting a fair tournament. On line tournies are good fun, but not for real competition. When lag happens at live events at least generally both parties are effected equally, or it is a lot easier to improve/fix the problems. I would never consider any tournament a real test of competition worth any decent(10k+) amounts of money if it was online, to many variables. Live events are very different, and far more important. Even the HSC, with its super relaxed atmosphere, is far more legitimate than anyone finals online, in my opinion. And obviously, in the opinions of most people who run tournaments, as they usually are live if they are big.
Asterisks on fair.
How about some LAN support Blizzard? *Wink, wink, nudge, nudge*
There will always be lag issues regardless thanks to Blizzard even if it affects both competitors.
I know the difference between real lan and bullshit thank you very much. I've already spoken about HSC in the other thread and about branding, so I won't touch base on it here.
On February 15 2012 08:31 Gorlin wrote: Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't see where it says the price if you have a gold membership. Also, while you're here, I take it the rest of the Global Invitational vods are never going to be uploaded...?
It is in the full FAQ link at the bottom of the OP.
On February 15 2012 08:31 Gorlin wrote: Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't see where it says the price if you have a gold membership. Also, while you're here, I take it the rest of the Global Invitational vods are never going to be uploaded...?
It is in the full FAQ link at the bottom of the OP.
Oh whoops, I didn't even see that. Five dollars off is alright I suppose. And replays will be available within 10 minutes? You sure you don't just mean vods?
Adam will you tell your boys in the office to fix/tweak the stream? This is HD on the MLG twitch stream. The stream becomes grainy when there is a lot of action, and Yes this is from the demo.
On February 15 2012 08:41 zaii wrote: Adam will you tell your boys in the office to fix/tweak the stream? This is HD on the MLG twitch stream. The stream becomes grainy when there is a lot of action, and Yes this is from the demo.
That is just the video we are using so you can toy around with the multi view features. It is not even close to the video quality we'll push at the arena.
5. Will you be streaming anything besides gameplay?
Yes. We’ll have 32 of the world’s best players right here in our studio, in addition to a bunch of leading members of the scene, and we want you to feel like you’re right in the room with them. The Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access stream will be running all throughout the Arena, featuring candid footage, interviews, chats and more live from the Dr Pepper Player Lounge.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
I have to disagree. Online tournaments are a waste of time.
To you perhaps, but online tournaments are very cost effective and we have the software to get live interviews after the matches.
A lot of tournaments do this including the TSL.
MLG isn't doing any favors for themselves. Only the players and other personalities so whenever they get the call they'll say, "Sure! I'd love to come down to fill-in-the-blank MLG tournament. They treat me so nice!"
Other than player schmoozing I don't see whatelse they're getting from it by flying all of them down there. I can see several guys getting very little air time and not only that. How the heck are you going to market them all? Where is the exposure coming from?
What they're getting is a fair tournament. There's debate over the magnitude, but any online tournament puts people not o that server at a meaningful disadvantage. It's something we can make do with for some things, but no tournament that's not in-person has a hope of getting the real top-prestige-level reputation.
I hope that you will begin listening to us, your loyal viewers, through this thread.
I think most of us here share the sentiment that a $20 PPV fee is too expensive. While we do not wish for our favourite e-sports organisations to crumble and die, we hope for reasonable packages that are affordable for the masses.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
because online isn't as reliable, players would be playing from all over the world which means shitty times and lag for people.
Haven't you noticed the no players at the GSL studios for Code A? It seems awkward. And not because of the lack of crowd because lets be honest, gom studio is usually empty any ways.
You do realize that we get lag problems regardless? Even if the players are side by side (no LAN applications yet). It doesn't justify the expense.
Marketing strategy is everything and you got to sell not just the product, but the players as well.
I have to disagree. Online tournaments are a waste of time.
To you perhaps, but online tournaments are very cost effective and we have the software to get live interviews after the matches.
A lot of tournaments do this including the TSL.
MLG isn't doing any favors for themselves. Only the players and other personalities so whenever they get the call they'll say, "Sure! I'd love to come down to fill-in-the-blank MLG tournament. They treat me so nice!"
Other than player schmoozing I don't see whatelse they're getting from it by flying all of them down there. I can see several guys getting very little air time and not only that. How the heck are you going to market them all? Where is the exposure coming from?
What they're getting is a fair tournament. There's debate over the magnitude, but any online tournament puts people not o that server at a meaningful disadvantage. It's something we can make do with for some things, but no tournament that's not in-person has a hope of getting the real top-prestige-level reputation.
TSL begs to differ kind sir.
It was the only major online SC2 tournament back then that had hype.
Seeing how I'm European I currently can't obtain a gold membership, which I am planning on buying when available. Will it be possible for me to get a gold account before the event so I get the 5 USD discount?
In all honesty, I would probably buy a ticket either way, but I wouldn't mind spending a little less on what I consider a relatively expensive product.
On February 15 2012 09:03 Derez wrote: Seeing how I'm European I currently can't obtain a gold membership, which I am planning on buying when available. Will it be possible for me to get a gold account before the event so I get the 5 USD discount?
In all honesty, I would probably buy a ticket either way, but I wouldn't mind spending a little less on what I consider a relatively expensive product.
On February 15 2012 09:03 Derez wrote: Seeing how I'm European I currently can't obtain a gold membership, which I am planning on buying when available. Will it be possible for me to get a gold account before the event so I get the 5 USD discount?
In all honesty, I would probably buy a ticket either way, but I wouldn't mind spending a little less on what I consider a relatively expensive product.
Wait how come you can't buy gold?
No online payment option as far as I am aware of, and there's no Gamestops or Toys'R'Us's over here.
On February 15 2012 09:03 Derez wrote: Seeing how I'm European I currently can't obtain a gold membership, which I am planning on buying when available. Will it be possible for me to get a gold account before the event so I get the 5 USD discount?
In all honesty, I would probably buy a ticket either way, but I wouldn't mind spending a little less on what I consider a relatively expensive product.
Wait how come you can't buy gold?
No online payment option as far as I am aware of, and there's no Gamestops or Toys'R'Us's over here.
Can you explain why Gold members got screwed even though the Arena was clearly marketed as part of the Pro Circuit this entire time? $5 off of an already overpriced ticket price is more of a slap in the face than anything.
I'm sure there are plenty of people (myself included) who would not have bought Gold if they knew it didn't include Arenas.
5. Will you be streaming anything besides gameplay?
Yes. We’ll have 32 of the world’s best players right here in our studio, in addition to a bunch of leading members of the scene, and we want you to feel like you’re right in the room with them. The Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access stream will be running all throughout the Arena, featuring candid footage, interviews, chats and more live from the Dr Pepper Player Lounge.
32 Koreans are playing? WTF! Nice!
32 of the world's best players =/= the 32 best players in the world. If you are going to ridicule someone, make sure you understand english first, otherwise you look really stupid.
5. Will you be streaming anything besides gameplay?
Yes. We’ll have 32 of the world’s best players right here in our studio, in addition to a bunch of leading members of the scene, and we want you to feel like you’re right in the room with them. The Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access stream will be running all throughout the Arena, featuring candid footage, interviews, chats and more live from the Dr Pepper Player Lounge.
32 Koreans are playing? WTF! Nice!
32 of the world's best players =/= the 32 best players in the world. If you are going to ridicule someone, make sure you understand english first, otherwise you look really stupid.
There are probably 1-2 Foreigners who can be counted in the Top 32, and even that is questionable just because we don't have enough information.
On February 15 2012 09:03 Derez wrote: Seeing how I'm European I currently can't obtain a gold membership, which I am planning on buying when available. Will it be possible for me to get a gold account before the event so I get the 5 USD discount?
In all honesty, I would probably buy a ticket either way, but I wouldn't mind spending a little less on what I consider a relatively expensive product.
Wait how come you can't buy gold?
No online payment option as far as I am aware of, and there's no Gamestops or Toys'R'Us's over here.
:o - You buy it on their website.. The Toys'R'Us was a gimmick (I assume, compared to their online sales)
I'm not poor, $20 is 15€ and it's not that much money for me but it still is 3 meals in macdonals, a good meal, 3 tickets for cinema, 15 bears in a normal pub, 3 whiskeys in a disco etc.. etc..
It's also twice the ammount i paid for 2 months of GSL with code S and code A..
So yeah it's expensive imo
I hope you make your numbers and do profit but at this price i won't support you.
I've paid $25 for NASL twice and i will again because i want to support them and watch 3 months of games and a good finals show, the problem is your offer for europeans is not that great imo. GSL is in the morning for me, i can watch/hear it when i'm at work but i can't stay awake in my home for the all weekend to watch MLG.
Make it less expensive because right now it's not worth it for me atleast.
On February 15 2012 09:03 Derez wrote: Seeing how I'm European I currently can't obtain a gold membership, which I am planning on buying when available. Will it be possible for me to get a gold account before the event so I get the 5 USD discount?
In all honesty, I would probably buy a ticket either way, but I wouldn't mind spending a little less on what I consider a relatively expensive product.
Wait how come you can't buy gold?
No online payment option as far as I am aware of, and there's no Gamestops or Toys'R'Us's over here.
:o - You buy it on their website.. The Toys'R'Us was a gimmick (I assume, compared to their online sales)
Show me where please! The online store loops back to the membership page which only offers membership through redeeming a code you buy in a US store .
Is the instant vod access improved compared to the past MLGs? And, if yes, improved by what? Vod access is especially important to people who live outside an american time zone, who are not able to watch everything live, and I remember from past MLGs that watching certain matches and sets from the vods were impossible. It was basically on huge stream recorded with some automatic buggy breakup into several sections, which were supposed to be the different sets.
I'm not poor, $20 is 15€ and it's not that much money for me but it still is 3 meals in macdonals, a good meal, 3 tickets for cinema, 15 bears in a normal pub, 3 whiskeys in a disco etc.. etc..
It's also twice the ammount i paid for 2 months of GSL with code S and code A..
So yeah it's expensive imo
I hope you make your numbers and do profit but at this price i won't support you.
I've paid $25 for NASL twice and i will again because i want to support them and watch 3 months of games and a good finals show, the problem is your offer for europeans is not that great imo. GSL is in the morning for me, i can watch/hear it when i'm at work but i can't stay awake in my home for the all weekend to watch MLG.
Make it less expensive because right now it's not worth it for me atleast.
Keep up the good work
wtf portugal op
where i live in england $20 gets 1 adult ticket to the cinema or about 7-8 drinks D:
I'm not poor, $20 is 15€ and it's not that much money for me but it still is 3 meals in macdonals, a good meal, 3 tickets for cinema, 15 bears in a normal pub, 3 whiskeys in a disco etc.. etc..
It's also twice the ammount i paid for 2 months of GSL with code S and code A..
So yeah it's expensive imo
I hope you make your numbers and do profit but at this price i won't support you.
I've paid $25 for NASL twice and i will again because i want to support them and watch 3 months of games and a good finals show, the problem is your offer for europeans is not that great imo. GSL is in the morning for me, i can watch/hear it when i'm at work but i can't stay awake in my home for the all weekend to watch MLG.
Make it less expensive because right now it's not worth it for me atleast.
Keep up the good work
wtf portugal op
where i live in england $20 gets 1 adult ticket to the cinema or about 7-8 drinks D:
Its true, Im portuguese and when I went on vacation there from Canada me and my Girlfriend spent abou 12 Euros to see a movie with popcorn and drinks and 2 tickets. Was crazy awesome, though the economy is badly misproportionate there because the average income is quite low.
On Topic though:
Im glad gold members get a discount but 5 bucks is not enough to motivate me to buy the ticket.
sick improvements on the quadview page! the new layout options are great!
the only thing it lacks imo is a way to support dual-screen setups. if you allow us to have as many streams as we want opened at the same time (in different browser windows), that'd be just perfect. I've been struggling with that all throughout 2011...
edit : oh and thanks for the 5$ off for us gold members, very appreciated!
heres my problem with having these online qualifiers all join together at this stage. we all know theres a 90% chance the second half of this event is gonna be all korean, maybe sase (who will have constant "but trains in korea" over his head) will make a splash, maybe sheth gets lucky and you guys get even more lucky on being able to spew out a decent storyline, but lets face facts its expected that koreans will dominate.
if i wanted to watch koreans play a tourney with no live audience and the casting done over skype and webcams, why dont i just watch the ESV weekly matches?
Why is this FAQ all the questions that everyone already knew the answer to and that has been posted before, while all the actual questions and concerns people have are completely neglected?
For example
4. Why aren’t Arenas included in Gold Membership?
Gold Membership is good for all Championship events. The Arenas, which are a brand new offering in 2012, aren’t a part of Gold Membership—but you’ll still get a discount.
That doesn't in any way answer the question. Essentially your answer is "because it's not", which is an unsatisfactory answer for many.
9. Why pay $20 when some other events are free?
The Arenas are a brand new addition to the Pro Circuit’s stable of events, and we’re putting a lot into them. There will be four streams running gameplay at all times, and one stream running throughout the weekend that will give you a candid look behind the scenes with all the players. You can watch all five streams at once, or choose which ones you’d like to see, and seamlessly switch between them. Production value will be incredibly high. Quality of players, and therefore games, will also be extremely high, because we’re flying 32 of the world’s best to NYC to compete live from our studios. We will be streaming every single game from the tournament, live in up to true 720p. And we’re getting some of the best casters in the business to commentate all the action.
Isn't this pretty similar to all your other events, which you don't charge $20 to watch? You never address why there is no free stream available for this event.
An actual answer to these two questions, as well as your justification for flying 32 players into New York City and paying for their lodging for 3 days, having no live audience for a supposedly high-quality event with the best players, and charging more for a premium ticket for this event when it doesn't include all the other MLG staples (including LoL and CoD) would be much appreciated, though not necessarily expected.
On February 15 2012 09:03 Derez wrote: Seeing how I'm European I currently can't obtain a gold membership, which I am planning on buying when available. Will it be possible for me to get a gold account before the event so I get the 5 USD discount?
In all honesty, I would probably buy a ticket either way, but I wouldn't mind spending a little less on what I consider a relatively expensive product.
Wait how come you can't buy gold?
No online payment option as far as I am aware of, and there's no Gamestops or Toys'R'Us's over here.
:o - You buy it on their website.. The Toys'R'Us was a gimmick (I assume, compared to their online sales)
Show me where please! The online store loops back to the membership page which only offers membership through redeeming a code you buy in a US store .
LOL - Apparently you can't even buy the Gold Membership anymore.. Guess they realized how much of a shit deal it is, when it dosn't buy you a way to watch their tournaments.. But you get 5% discount on GUNNAR gamer goggles, ahaha - Well thanks for the 12 months of that ^^
On the info for the gold membership it says:
Gold Membership is a great way to get access to the best that MLG has to offer. Watch the Live Events in High Definition and receive all the benefits of the GameBattles Premium Access all in one nice $29.99 bundle.
Aye, I'll just let that stand..
Im sorry friend, I just spent 10 minutes trying to find the place where you can buy Gold Membership, but their store says it's only available in retail stores (Toys R Us or GameStop), so I guess you are right
By the way - Anyone else always seem to type in this adress when you want to go to MLG's website? + Show Spoiler +
What are you doing in regards to the fact that Gold Passes were advertised as offering Access to HQ Pro Circuit Live Broadcasts, when in fact they no longer do?
It's pretty clear you're marketing the Winter Arena as part of the Pro Circuit, and even amended the Gold Membership terms after the fact, without any prior notification (or change on parts of the site).
On February 15 2012 09:59 opterown wrote: What's this Dr Pepper Ultimate Access stream that I hear about? Apparently that's free?
yeah it's free (with ads)
The Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream: go behind the scenes for a candid look at your favorite players that will feature interviews, polls, chat, and more
On February 15 2012 09:56 Witten wrote: Why is this FAQ all the questions that everyone already knew the answer to and that has been posted before, while all the actual questions and concerns people have are completely neglected?
Gold Membership is good for all Championship events. The Arenas, which are a brand new offering in 2012, aren’t a part of Gold Membership—but you’ll still get a discount.
That doesn't in any way answer the question. Essentially your answer is "because it's not", which is an unsatisfactory answer for many.
The Arenas are a brand new addition to the Pro Circuit’s stable of events, and we’re putting a lot into them. There will be four streams running gameplay at all times, and one stream running throughout the weekend that will give you a candid look behind the scenes with all the players. You can watch all five streams at once, or choose which ones you’d like to see, and seamlessly switch between them. Production value will be incredibly high. Quality of players, and therefore games, will also be extremely high, because we’re flying 32 of the world’s best to NYC to compete live from our studios. We will be streaming every single game from the tournament, live in up to true 720p. And we’re getting some of the best casters in the business to commentate all the action.
Isn't this pretty similar to all your other events, which you don't charge $20 to watch? You never address why there is no free stream available for this event.
An actual answer to these two questions, as well as your justification for flying 32 players into New York City and paying for their lodging for 3 days, having no live audience for a supposedly high-quality event with the best players, and charging more for a premium ticket for this event when it doesn't include all the other MLG staples (including LoL and CoD) would be much appreciated, though not necessarily expected.
I can only say that I agree, and that unfortunately it would indeed be surprising if MLG started doing anything other than smoke-screening their changes and decisions.
I feel if the gold member discount isn't very big a lot of people will have a good reason to feel really upset. I don't have a gold membership or anything but it seems kind of backwards, you would never want to punish the customers you already have.
That said, I will buy the arena, I feel it's too hard to know what features are going to make it worthwhile and what ones don't. I don't approve of all the people who don't want to pay $20 on principal because it doesn't feel fair. Unless you are really poor, or in my case, sort of poor but from a city where any kind of entertainment is ridiculously overpriced, I think it is worth it to just give MLG the benefit of the doubt.
I would love to have the Winter arena be so much fun it feels worth twenty bucks so I will buy it and then only complain that it wasn't worth it if actually know. We don't know if it is worth it or not because we don't know how good it will be for sure yet, and I feel for esports to suffer at the hands of pessimism would be sad indeed. Take a leap of faith!
"We will be streaming every single game from the tournament, live in up to true 720p."
$20 for 720p? No thanks.
"For $20 you get a full weekend of nothing but the absolute best StarCraft 2 in the world. That’s roughly the same cost as a trip to the movies (with a stop at the concession stand), a large pizza, a small venue concert, or a round of drinks."
You know that $20 is asking too much, and that's why you put up this lame quip.
"VOD will be released for free for those who didn’t purchase an Arena pass one week after the end of the competition"
So what I'm getting out of this is watch Assembly this weekend with $20 of craft beer, watch MLG for free next week :D
Also, please address the users who thought their Gold Pass gave them access to all MLG events and are now upset at having to pay $15 per Arena. They're saying your advertising misled them. Your credibility is on the line here.
"Available at GameStop and Toys "R" Us Stores ONLY Gold Membership is a great way to get access to the best that MLG has to offer. Watch the Live Events in High Definition and receive all the benefits of the GameBattles Premium Access all in one nice $29.99 bundle. This product is only available in stores."
According to your advertising, MLG Gold Pass gives you access to "the Live Events in High Definition"
On February 15 2012 12:39 GatorGar wrote: Hey MLG, check it out:
From "http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/membership"
"Available at GameStop and Toys "R" Us Stores ONLY Gold Membership is a great way to get access to the best that MLG has to offer. Watch the Live Events in High Definition and receive all the benefits of the GameBattles Premium Access all in one nice $29.99 bundle. This product is only available in stores."
According to your advertising, MLG Gold Pass gives you access to "the Live Events in High Definition"
"Available at GameStop and Toys "R" Us Stores ONLY Gold Membership is a great way to get access to the best that MLG has to offer. Watch the Live Events in High Definition and receive all the benefits of the GameBattles Premium Access all in one nice $29.99 bundle. This product is only available in stores."
According to your advertising, MLG Gold Pass gives you access to "the Live Events in High Definition"
So is Arena not a live event? Explain.
Thank you for bring this up. I was wondering the same thing when I was in gamestop today.
On February 15 2012 12:39 GatorGar wrote: Hey MLG, check it out:
From "http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/membership"
"Available at GameStop and Toys "R" Us Stores ONLY Gold Membership is a great way to get access to the best that MLG has to offer. Watch the Live Events in High Definition and receive all the benefits of the GameBattles Premium Access all in one nice $29.99 bundle. This product is only available in stores."
According to your advertising, MLG Gold Pass gives you access to "the Live Events in High Definition"
So is Arena not a live event? Explain.
live events meaning the 4 large scale ones.
Yeah, I'm inclined not to make a huge deal out of this, since this isn't the way it's worded most places they advertise it, but there's no way you can say "meaning this other thing" when there's no reason to actually think it means that when you first read it...
On February 15 2012 10:24 VirgilSC2 wrote: Out of extreme curiosity:
What are you doing in regards to the fact that Gold Passes were advertised as offering Access to HQ Pro Circuit Live Broadcasts, when in fact they no longer do?
It's pretty clear you're marketing the Winter Arena as part of the Pro Circuit, and even amended the Gold Membership terms after the fact, without any prior notification (or change on parts of the site).
Please address this. Pretty upset gold member here. I feel tricked. I find a $5 discount really cheap. I feel like you've shafted the group of people most loyal to you.
Have you fixed your stream players lingering and taking up more bandwidth than necessary?
Having tried your showcase stream layouts just now, it doesn't feel like it. Even after closing that browser tab, too, something is still hogging the bandwidth.
You also never really let us know what you found, as you posted in that thread there:
On October 17 2011 03:25 MLG_Steve wrote: Hey guys - Thank you so much for reporting this issue. We will look into this issue and let you know what we find.
If I bought the gold membership, I would have felt cheated, that this came right after it. Thank God, I had to delay considerations of purchase, due to recent tests. +_+ 20 for just 3 days is quite short, considering what NASL/GSL offers.
Really glad now that I didn't buy the Gold membership. I was really on the fence about it, esp with a friend of mine buying it, and eventually didn't because I didn't have time to watch the games live at the time. If I do buy any MLG access, I'll do it per-event so that I can't have the rug yanked out from under me later. People will probably be safe just buying access to one event at a time, but I wouldn't sink money into anything they're supposed to deliver int he future.
Quoting this from the original thread breaking the news on MLG ppv arena
On February 14 2012 07:52 Dodgin wrote: Guess I am watching assembly.
They are really shooting themselves in the foot trying to do this while another major event is going on at the same time. But I guess it is just a test.
After reading EGAlex's thread on the subject I am interested in the community response to a slightly different system, please vote in this poll if you did in the last one.
Poll: Would you pay if it was 10$ and 5$ for MLG Gold Members?
No (1520)
74%
Yes (539)
26%
2059 total votes
Your vote: Would you pay if it was 10$ and 5$ for MLG Gold Members?
Why are so little people going and or thinking about purchasing your pass? Why do you think your business plan will fail? Why did you guys decide to do this without really asking the community or getting feedback (Twitter is a shitty response) How many viewers are you expecting, I'm guessing Assembly will have 7-8x the amount of viewers MLG will have. Why did you come up with a price of $20? Why are you comparing it to a UFC PPV when they show all precard fights on Spike TV in HD with only the main card fights being PPV ( $24.99 a month satelite package includes spike TV)
This is a PR thread and a joke. VirgilSC2 asked direct questions to the MLG staff, and they are still beaming their used-car-salesman smiles, answering softball questions, while ignoring giant fiery balls of lava being thrown at them.
Not only will I not spend one cent on MLG Arena, I'll stop watching MLG completely, because of this thread. TL is not a fucking press conference.
To MLG staff - you can ignore this, but everyone else can still read it.
On February 15 2012 13:41 YMCApylons wrote: This is a PR thread and a joke. VirgilSC2 asked direct questions to the MLG staff, and they are still beaming their used-car-salesman smiles, answering softball questions, while ignoring giant fiery balls of lava being thrown at them.
Not only will I not spend one cent on MLG Arena, I'll stop watching MLG completely, because of this thread. TL is not a fucking press conference.
To MLG staff - you can ignore this, but everyone else can still read it.
Amen. I'll stick to the GSL and free weekly tourneys.
Preview page looks awesome, but I don't think my internet can take 5 HD streams worth of data incoming. :-(
Frankly, one stream where there was constant action (I don't care if you have to jump into a game mid-way; they do it for the NFL) would be nice.
But like I say, really impressed with the preview thing. Price point is still way too high for me, but I may be willing to do some kind of year-long subscription thing in the future.
On February 15 2012 10:24 VirgilSC2 wrote: Out of extreme curiosity:
What are you doing in regards to the fact that Gold Passes were advertised as offering Access to HQ Pro Circuit Live Broadcasts, when in fact they no longer do?
It's pretty clear you're marketing the Winter Arena as part of the Pro Circuit, and even amended the Gold Membership terms after the fact, without any prior notification (or change on parts of the site).
Please address this. Pretty upset gold member here. I feel tricked. I find a $5 discount really cheap. I feel like you've shafted the group of people most loyal to you.
You won't get anything out of it. They already issued the 5$ rebate. To adjust one more time would mean to loose even more face. If they'd change it again, they could as well start anew from scratch- which is unlikely given the short amount of time till the event.
The best thing you can hope for is them trying to stay under the radar, exposing as little surface area possible until after the event and maybe come back with a complete turn-around. But since the other well written thread about this issue was being closed, there is a slim chance that industry big players will throw each other under the bus right before the event.
4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services.
On February 15 2012 15:29 Spaceneil8 wrote: 4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services.
On February 15 2012 15:29 Spaceneil8 wrote: 4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services.
What MLG did is not illegal because all of the members agreed to it being ok in the terms of service. It sucks but that's just the way it is.
Notice: Last updated: February 2, 2012
Yes, it is very likely they'd be lawfully in the clear, since such clauses are more or less standard practice.
Second, I guess no one saved/printed a copy of the ToS at the time of purchase. The burden of proof is on the customers side.
That sort of stuff can be easily found in discovery. Terms of Service is a legal document, ninja-edits are a big no-no. MLG can be ordered by the court to produce the relevant ToS.
I do not have a gold pass but IF I did I would feel extremely disappointed this was not included.
I have bought the last 4 MLG passes and its been good though a bit laggy from time to time however 20$ is double the cost I feel is appropriate for such a great LAN event especially as I am in Europe and it will be very late. Yes there are VODS but I may as well wait a week and watch them at my leisure.
There is so much terrific content now and alot of it free. Yes you have alot (Most of the cream Europe will be at Assembly - a free product I believe?) of the greatest players on Earth turning up but your pricing structure is wrong this time. Next time half the price, make more money amd your customers will be content too.
On February 15 2012 15:39 Ireniicus wrote: I do not have a gold pass but IF I did I would feel extremely disappointed this was not included.
I have bought the last 4 MLG passes and its been good though a bit laggy from time to time however 20$ is double the cost I feel is appropriate for such a great LAN event especially as I am in Europe and it will be very late. Yes there are VODS but I may as well wait a week and watch them at my leisure.
There is so much terrific content now and alot of it free. Yes you have alot (Most of the cream Europe will be at Assembly - a free product I believe?) of the greatest players on Earth turning up but your pricing structure is wrong this time. Next time half the price, make more money amd your customers will be content too.
Assembly has or atleast summer assembly had free 1080p stream. Dont see why it wouldnt be free 1080p at winter assembly as well. =)
There is ONLY one reason why you guys opened this topic: To gain sympathy from your angry viewers. It is NOT to answer some questions. There is NO questions around, there is ANGER. You guys owe us an APOLOGY topic not an announcement one.
If you guys think, this will give you profit, you are dreaming. You guys should be scared from the response of sponsors. I wonder what Sony Ericsson or Alienware will think about 95% shrinkage in viewer numbers.
This thread just pisses me off. Someone from MLG, please respond to this:
On February 15 2012 10:24 VirgilSC2 wrote: Out of extreme curiosity:
What are you doing in regards to the fact that Gold Passes were advertised as offering Access to HQ Pro Circuit Live Broadcasts, when in fact they no longer do?
It's pretty clear you're marketing the Winter Arena as part of the Pro Circuit, and even amended the Gold Membership terms after the fact, without any prior notification (or change on parts of the site).
Gold members are obviously getting screwed, and they are the ones who were the most loyal in the first place.
On February 15 2012 13:41 YMCApylons wrote: This is a PR thread and a joke. VirgilSC2 asked direct questions to the MLG staff, and they are still beaming their used-car-salesman smiles, answering softball questions, while ignoring giant fiery balls of lava being thrown at them.
Not only will I not spend one cent on MLG Arena, I'll stop watching MLG completely, because of this thread. TL is not a fucking press conference.
To MLG staff - you can ignore this, but everyone else can still read it.
I read it. You got a fan club I could join or news letter? xD
The PR for this event is so haphazard one wonders what is going on behind the scenes. They announce the PPV aspect just 10 days before the event and then start backpedaling immediately after the backlash to their bad PR hits.
From a business standpoint, this new pro circuit package has not been conveyed in a professional manner. Next time, all the details should just be released at the beginning of the year.
Also, almost forgot to mention. All the new from MLG in recent months, the mass layoffs, cutting the shows and articles, and this last minute rush to grab some cash from the winter arena all smells of a business that overextended themselves by spending too much. Maybe a lesson learned is to take these things slow, there is no need to up the prize pool and production value tremendously, baby steps are just fine.
On February 15 2012 13:41 YMCApylons wrote: This is a PR thread and a joke. VirgilSC2 asked direct questions to the MLG staff, and they are still beaming their used-car-salesman smiles, answering softball questions, while ignoring giant fiery balls of lava being thrown at them.
Not only will I not spend one cent on MLG Arena, I'll stop watching MLG completely, because of this thread. TL is not a fucking press conference.
To MLG staff - you can ignore this, but everyone else can still read it.
I read it. You got a fan club I could join or news letter? xD
Lol, no, but there are two people you should be fans of:
They're the ones who, to my knowledge, first made the case that what MLG was doing is not just wrong in a BM way, but possibly legally wrong. As in fraudulent. Once I saw that, my perspective shifted. Blindly giving money to anyone waving the "e-sports" banner is a idiotic. Demand ethical, legal business practices. It's ultimately better for the SC2 community as a whole.
The full case for why what MLG did is not just unethical, but illegal, is made in a closed thread by BronzeKnee in SC2 General Forum. The thread lasted 14 minutes. Out of respect to the TL mods, I won't post a link, but you can find it in his post history. TL closed the thread to protect themselves, which is understandable and reasonable. But TL is the SC2 community, so we do need a find a way to talk about this on TL.
On February 15 2012 15:29 Spaceneil8 wrote: 4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services.
What MLG did is not illegal because all of the members agreed to it being ok in the terms of service. It sucks but that's just the way it is.
Notice: Last updated: February 2, 2012
Yes, it is very likely they'd be lawfully in the clear, since such clauses are more or less standard practice.
Second, I guess no one saved/printed a copy of the ToS at the time of purchase. The burden of proof is on the customers side.
That sort of stuff can be easily found in discovery. Terms of Service is a legal document, ninja-edits are a big no-no. MLG can be ordered by the court to produce the relevant ToS.
But this kind of thing is something that would have been included in the ToS in the first place. I haven't seen the relevant ToS, but I highly doubt it wouldn't be there.
On February 15 2012 15:29 Spaceneil8 wrote: 4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services.
What MLG did is not illegal because all of the members agreed to it being ok in the terms of service. It sucks but that's just the way it is.
Notice: Last updated: February 2, 2012
Yes, it is very likely they'd be lawfully in the clear, since such clauses are more or less standard practice.
Second, I guess no one saved/printed a copy of the ToS at the time of purchase. The burden of proof is on the customers side.
That sort of stuff can be easily found in discovery. Terms of Service is a legal document, ninja-edits are a big no-no. MLG can be ordered by the court to produce the relevant ToS.
But this kind of thing is something that would have been included in the ToS in the first place. I haven't seen the relevant ToS, but I highly doubt it wouldn't be there.
That's possible, but that would simply make the case for fraudulent advertising even stronger. It's not enough that it's in the ToS. The advertising used to sell the Gold Membership has to accurately reflect the ToS. The further away the actual ToS is from the advertising, the stronger the case for fraud. The closer the ToS is to the original advertising, the stronger the claim for breach of contract. It's pick your poison for MLG.
On February 15 2012 15:39 Ireniicus wrote: I do not have a gold pass but IF I did I would feel extremely disappointed this was not included.
I have bought the last 4 MLG passes and its been good though a bit laggy from time to time however 20$ is double the cost I feel is appropriate for such a great LAN event especially as I am in Europe and it will be very late. Yes there are VODS but I may as well wait a week and watch them at my leisure.
There is so much terrific content now and alot of it free. Yes you have alot (Most of the cream Europe will be at Assembly - a free product I believe?) of the greatest players on Earth turning up but your pricing structure is wrong this time. Next time half the price, make more money amd your customers will be content too.
Assembly has or atleast summer assembly had free 1080p stream. Dont see why it wouldnt be free 1080p at winter assembly as well. =)
TWO free 1080p English cast streams! TB+apollo as well as Mr.Bitter+Khaldor (and mouzKaelaris substituting in for breaks)!
Hah man, the casting and playing lineup is better for MLG imo (if RotterdaM was at Assembly that would be different :D), but 20$ for 2 days, that's just really expensive. I think they would have made much more money with a lower price, like 5 dollars or even 10. It's surely not gaining them long term customers anyway...
You guys have pulled a bait and switch on your gold members, the people who were most willing to support your organization. I genuinely feel, as has been posted by others, that your behavior was at the very least either false advertising or breach of contract. I paid you $30 for access to your content for this year. If you decide that wasn't enough money, tough shit, you still owe me the content; it's no different than if I decided that it was too much money and demanded $15 back.
No one has a financial stake in this big enough to make it worth our while to actually try to go after you legally for your dishonest behavior, but if you don't backtrack in a big way in a serious hurry, you can kiss your future subscription revenues good bye. I've already cancelled my gold membership, and I can't see myself or anyone else who's aware of your willingness to redefine the benefits of your subscription packages being gullible enough to pay for a year of content in advance ever again.
Honor the agreements you made with your customers. If you need more money, make your subscriptions more expensive and explain the circumstances, but don't renege on promises made to the people who were willing to support you in producing your content a year in advance. We supported you, and you shafted us. There are a lot of seriously pissed off people out here, and none of your answers have addressed our concerns in any meaningful way.
On February 15 2012 21:36 Veclada wrote: You don't seem to understand the amount of content this is. And the players are amazing. It's defently worth 20$
You are responding to me, I take it?
MLG: If you pay us $30 in advance, you can see all our content for the next year! Me: That seems like a good deal, here's $30! MLG: Thanks! Now, for just $20 more you can see the first event of the year! Me: That seems very sleazy! I already paid for all your content this year? MLG: Oh, but this is super special content, and anyhow we didn't actually charge you enough before. Me: HULK SMASH! Veclada: You don't seem to understand the amount of content this is. And the players are amazing.
It's supposed to be a lot of content with amazing players. That's why I was willing to pay for it a year in advance. If MLG wasn't smart enough to price their own product properly, then that's really unfortunate, but it doesn't justify what they're pulling over on their customers.
On February 15 2012 15:29 Spaceneil8 wrote: 4. SERVICE CHANGES AND DISCONTINUATION: MLG reserves the right to change or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Membership Program at any time without notice. You agree that MLG will not be liable to you or any third party for any modification or discontinuance of the Services.
I hope they know that this point would only stand in a US based court. Any EU court would easily point out that this clause is giving a unfair advantage to one side of the deal and there fore its null.
Will the Arena pass (or the Gold membership for that matter) allow me to watch using multiple browser windows?
I have a dualscreen setup (more if I include my laptop) and it feels silly not to be able to use both of them to watch games if 2 awesome ones are being played at the same time. The solution of 1 ticket = 1 browser window from last year is not very reasonable IMO.
I understand that you want to combat people sharing their ticket, but something like restricting access based on IP would make far more sense.
On February 15 2012 21:36 Veclada wrote: You don't seem to understand the amount of content this is. And the players are amazing. It's defently worth 20$
i dont think you understand how LITTLE content this is.
look at comparative offers from other leagues. now unless mlg really, and i mean reaaaaallllllyy, comes through on those live interviews this will be double the price for half the games compared to hsc/gsl etc etc
On February 15 2012 13:20 Proseat wrote: Have you fixed your stream players lingering and taking up more bandwidth than necessary?
Having tried your showcase stream layouts just now, it doesn't feel like it. Even after closing that browser tab, too, something is still hogging the bandwidth.
On October 17 2011 03:25 MLG_Steve wrote: Hey guys - Thank you so much for reporting this issue. We will look into this issue and let you know what we find.
Hope you're enjoying the Orlando streams!
-- Steven Flenory VP Production @ MLG
I hope the MLG guys see and address this. Having all these new stream layouts is great and all, but doesn't really help if the streamplayers eat up too much bandwidth to begin with.
On February 15 2012 21:57 Denzil wrote: Is there a free stream?
If so, why is this being marketed as PPV or don't watch
AFAIK, there is no free stream for any of the games, however the "Dr Pepper ultimate acess blah blah" will be a "behind the scenes" free stream with ads, doing interviews, fun stuff, general behind the scenes stuff.
can you pls explain to me, how this new mlg experience will be for me as an european?
most of the content will be during night time and i am not willing to sacrifice my sleep schedule.
last years mlg (silver membership), i did watch like 3-4 hours in the evening, went to bed and watched the rest of the event on the next morning. i could do this because of your rebroadcast but it was very difficult to not get spoiled because of the results everywhere on your page.
will there be a possibility to watch the event on the next morning (european time ) like there was last year or do i have go through a even more spoiled vod archive? will there be a possibility for me to experience the mlg on the next morning just as would have stayed up the whole night?
It's nice that you are now giving gold members a discount, but you really should have taken that into consideration before going on an announcement blitz.
Client retention (ie showing you care about those people who have already shown willingness to pay for content) is kind of a big deal.
Well, i'm gonna wave my right as a consumer and just not pay the price which I believe is too high. Having watched all MLG events before it's gonna string a bit missing this but it's just not worth it if I have to undermine my principles.
Good luck with this though, hopefully others are willing to pay the price.
On February 15 2012 21:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote: You guys have pulled a bait and switch on your gold members, the people who were most willing to support your organization. I genuinely feel, as has been posted by others, that your behavior was at the very least either false advertising or breach of contract. I paid you $30 for access to your content for this year. If you decide that wasn't enough money, tough shit, you still owe me the content; it's no different than if I decided that it was too much money and demanded $15 back.
No one has a financial stake in this big enough to make it worth our while to actually try to go after you legally for your dishonest behavior, but if you don't backtrack in a big way in a serious hurry, you can kiss your future subscription revenues good bye. I've already cancelled my gold membership, and I can't see myself or anyone else who's aware of your willingness to redefine the benefits of your subscription packages being gullible enough to pay for a year of content in advance ever again.
Honor the agreements you made with your customers. If you need more money, make your subscriptions more expensive and explain the circumstances, but don't renege on promises made to the people who were willing to support you in producing your content a year in advance. We supported you, and you shafted us. There are a lot of seriously pissed off people out here, and none of your answers have addressed our concerns in any meaningful way.
Well said, as a gold member I feel betrayed. I am having an exchange through email with them, they are stuck on the "no no it is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT tournament", and still think offering a late 5 $ discount will ease the pain...
Seriously MLG staff, I am not sure spitting in the face of your Gold membership base is the right move to do. I am cancelling my renewal now.
Edit : I can't actually find on their website where to cancel the subscription.... >_<. Can someone link me directly to the actual page ?
On February 15 2012 21:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote: You guys have pulled a bait and switch on your gold members, the people who were most willing to support your organization. I genuinely feel, as has been posted by others, that your behavior was at the very least either false advertising or breach of contract. I paid you $30 for access to your content for this year. If you decide that wasn't enough money, tough shit, you still owe me the content; it's no different than if I decided that it was too much money and demanded $15 back.
No one has a financial stake in this big enough to make it worth our while to actually try to go after you legally for your dishonest behavior, but if you don't backtrack in a big way in a serious hurry, you can kiss your future subscription revenues good bye. I've already cancelled my gold membership, and I can't see myself or anyone else who's aware of your willingness to redefine the benefits of your subscription packages being gullible enough to pay for a year of content in advance ever again.
Honor the agreements you made with your customers. If you need more money, make your subscriptions more expensive and explain the circumstances, but don't renege on promises made to the people who were willing to support you in producing your content a year in advance. We supported you, and you shafted us. There are a lot of seriously pissed off people out here, and none of your answers have addressed our concerns in any meaningful way.
Well said, as a gold member I feel betrayed. I am having an exchange through email with them, they are stuck on the "no no it is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT tournament", and still think offering a late 5 $ discount will ease the pain...
Seriously MLG staff, I am not sure spitting in the face of your Gold membership base is the right move to do. I am cancelling my renewal now.
I'm e-mailing with them, as well. The idea that this is somehow unrelated content, when it is in effect the first round of the tournament, it ridiculous, especially considering the fact that they are advertising it as part of the Pro Circuit.
Edit: They're giving me the same line of bullshit. The Arena events are completely different. Oh well, MLG has gotten the last dollar it will ever see from me.
You can cancel your subscription in your membership settings, top right on the MLG page. Click on your user name, and in the dropdown on "MLG League Membership"
On February 16 2012 00:07 Mouzone wrote: Well, i'm gonna wave my right as a consumer and just not pay the price which I believe is too high. Having watched all MLG events before it's gonna string a bit missing this but it's just not worth it if I have to undermine my principles.
Good luck with this though, hopefully others are willing to pay the price.
qft. 20$ is way to much for just one weekend. For example 1 MONTH of the german football (soccer) league costs as much while its way more popular and professional than mlg.
that way esports will never get big. the price will scare new people away and alot of "veterans" will stop watching. it will be a few sc2 fanatics paying horrendous prices and i hope thats not the way you want esports to go.
On February 15 2012 21:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote: You guys have pulled a bait and switch on your gold members, the people who were most willing to support your organization. I genuinely feel, as has been posted by others, that your behavior was at the very least either false advertising or breach of contract. I paid you $30 for access to your content for this year. If you decide that wasn't enough money, tough shit, you still owe me the content; it's no different than if I decided that it was too much money and demanded $15 back.
No one has a financial stake in this big enough to make it worth our while to actually try to go after you legally for your dishonest behavior, but if you don't backtrack in a big way in a serious hurry, you can kiss your future subscription revenues good bye. I've already cancelled my gold membership, and I can't see myself or anyone else who's aware of your willingness to redefine the benefits of your subscription packages being gullible enough to pay for a year of content in advance ever again.
Honor the agreements you made with your customers. If you need more money, make your subscriptions more expensive and explain the circumstances, but don't renege on promises made to the people who were willing to support you in producing your content a year in advance. We supported you, and you shafted us. There are a lot of seriously pissed off people out here, and none of your answers have addressed our concerns in any meaningful way.
Well said, as a gold member I feel betrayed. I am having an exchange through email with them, they are stuck on the "no no it is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT tournament", and still think offering a late 5 $ discount will ease the pain...
Seriously MLG staff, I am not sure spitting in the face of your Gold membership base is the right move to do. I am cancelling my renewal now.
I'm e-mailing with them, as well. The idea that this is somehow unrelated content, when it is in effect the first round of the tournament, it ridiculous, especially considering the fact that they are advertising it as part of the Pro Circuit.
Their whole marketing and business plan for the year just feels messy to me. It's like there's no coherent discourse and as if there've been numerous people working on it without anyone to actually piece everything together. So the result came out some kind of scrambled mess of many persons' wills but nothing that could be identified as the unified plan from the company itself.
On February 15 2012 21:28 AmericanUmlaut wrote: You guys have pulled a bait and switch on your gold members, the people who were most willing to support your organization. I genuinely feel, as has been posted by others, that your behavior was at the very least either false advertising or breach of contract. I paid you $30 for access to your content for this year. If you decide that wasn't enough money, tough shit, you still owe me the content; it's no different than if I decided that it was too much money and demanded $15 back.
No one has a financial stake in this big enough to make it worth our while to actually try to go after you legally for your dishonest behavior, but if you don't backtrack in a big way in a serious hurry, you can kiss your future subscription revenues good bye. I've already cancelled my gold membership, and I can't see myself or anyone else who's aware of your willingness to redefine the benefits of your subscription packages being gullible enough to pay for a year of content in advance ever again.
Honor the agreements you made with your customers. If you need more money, make your subscriptions more expensive and explain the circumstances, but don't renege on promises made to the people who were willing to support you in producing your content a year in advance. We supported you, and you shafted us. There are a lot of seriously pissed off people out here, and none of your answers have addressed our concerns in any meaningful way.
Well said, as a gold member I feel betrayed. I am having an exchange through email with them, they are stuck on the "no no it is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT tournament", and still think offering a late 5 $ discount will ease the pain...
Seriously MLG staff, I am not sure spitting in the face of your Gold membership base is the right move to do. I am cancelling my renewal now.
Edit : I can't actually find on their website where to cancel the subscription.... >_<. Can someone link me directly to the actual page ?
I keep getting a tow the company line copy paste response that revolves around "you get FIVE STREAMS!! and we are flying them to NY for you!"
I could care less if they are being flown to New York what I love about MLG is the atmosphere, without the atmosphere not only do I feel like my Gold membership is being spat on, I feel like its not worth spending 1/3rd the price of a new non discounted gold membership on.
The first email I sent it as the bottom of the pastebin.
Wow that's bad.
Luckily I was able to cancel my gold without having to speak to anyone. It's a shame too, MLG's are my favorite tournaments (even moreso than GSL) but I can't support these recent events. MLG dropped the ball big time and spit in the face of all of us who put up the money MLG asked based on reputation, past events and future promises only to get reemed at the very first event of the fucking year. Well played.
Yup, looks like the MLG employees answered exactly as many questions as I expected them to answer in this thread. Only the stuff where they could copy-paste marketing copy got addressed. I'd be very surprised if we see a single official MLG post in this thread again.
Well, my membership page still tells me I get access to Pro Circuit live streams and as this is being marketed as a Pro Circuit event I will be expecting access to the stream. If they haven't made any changes by then and I'm not able to access the stream then I'll be requesting (and expecting) a refund at least.
On February 16 2012 01:06 Quetz wrote: Well, my membership page still tells me I get access to Pro Circuit live streams and as this is being marketed as a Pro Circuit event I will be expecting access to the stream. If they haven't made any changes by then and I'm not able to access the stream then I'll be requesting (and expecting) a refund at least.
I explained them all that by email, they ignore those concerns and focused on the "oh no it is a completely different tournament"...
On February 16 2012 01:06 Quetz wrote: Well, my membership page still tells me I get access to Pro Circuit live streams and as this is being marketed as a Pro Circuit event I will be expecting access to the stream. If they haven't made any changes by then and I'm not able to access the stream then I'll be requesting (and expecting) a refund at least.
I explained them all that by email, they ignore those concerns and focused on the "oh no it is a completely different tournament"...
CF to the email history with them.
Well, if they stick to that line then they'll have a bunch of chargebacks to deal with. I bought my membership because I had faith in MLG. They still have that goodwill until I get screwed over by them. They still have an opportunity to do the right thing and honour their existing membership plan.
Disappointed that Virigl's question still hasn't been answered. I made another post on reddit focusing on that question. Hopefully we can get an answer....
I'm not poor, $20 is 15€ and it's not that much money for me but it still is 3 meals in macdonals, a good meal, 3 tickets for cinema, 15 bears in a normal pub, 3 whiskeys in a disco etc.. etc..
It's also twice the ammount i paid for 2 months of GSL with code S and code A..
So yeah it's expensive imo
I hope you make your numbers and do profit but at this price i won't support you.
I've paid $25 for NASL twice and i will again because i want to support them and watch 3 months of games and a good finals show, the problem is your offer for europeans is not that great imo. GSL is in the morning for me, i can watch/hear it when i'm at work but i can't stay awake in my home for the all weekend to watch MLG.
Make it less expensive because right now it's not worth it for me atleast.
Keep up the good work
I want to move to Portugal, 15 beers for $20? Or 3 Movie Tickets? Damn...
I'm not poor, $20 is 15€ and it's not that much money for me but it still is 3 meals in macdonals, a good meal, 3 tickets for cinema, 15 bears in a normal pub, 3 whiskeys in a disco etc.. etc..
It's also twice the ammount i paid for 2 months of GSL with code S and code A..
So yeah it's expensive imo
I hope you make your numbers and do profit but at this price i won't support you.
I've paid $25 for NASL twice and i will again because i want to support them and watch 3 months of games and a good finals show, the problem is your offer for europeans is not that great imo. GSL is in the morning for me, i can watch/hear it when i'm at work but i can't stay awake in my home for the all weekend to watch MLG.
Make it less expensive because right now it's not worth it for me atleast.
Keep up the good work
I want to move to Portugal, 15 beers for $20? Or 3 Movie Tickets? Damn...
Question: Why is there no 1 day pass option?
I live in Vegas and drinks are "free" at sportsbook and poker rooms I go to. Just so happens more you drink more you lose so maybe not so "free"
I don't even understand why this thread was created if MLG is just gonna disappear into the shadows when questions other than "how much does it cost" are asked.
On February 16 2012 07:39 zOula... wrote: I don't even understand why this thread was created if MLG is just gonna disappear into the shadows when questions other than "how much does it cost" are asked.
MLG_Adam is active on TL, but he is avoiding this thread.
At this point they're hoping it falls off the front page I think. Pretty bad PR disaster when all they can do is go silent and the thread becomes about people dropping their Gold subscriptions.
Sundance says that 84% say no they wouldn't pay $10, however:
Poll: How much would you pay for MLG PPV?
I wouldn't even buy it for $10 or less. (959)
39%
I'd pay $10, but not $20. (945)
38%
I'm fine with the $20 price point, but I'd gladly pay $10. (205)
8%
I bought Gold, and I think I should receive the Arena passes at no extra charge. (169)
7%
I bought Gold, and I'd pay $5 if the regular price were $10. (111)
5%
I bought Gold, and I'd pay $10 if the regular price were $20. (67)
3%
2456 total votes
Your vote: How much would you pay for MLG PPV?
(Vote): I'm fine with the $20 price point, but I'd gladly pay $10. (Vote): I'd pay $10, but not $20. (Vote): I wouldn't even buy it for $10 or less. (Vote): I bought Gold, and I'd pay $10 if the regular price were $20. (Vote): I bought Gold, and I'd pay $5 if the regular price were $10. (Vote): I bought Gold, and I think I should receive the Arena passes at no extra charge.
Our statistics here say otherwise.
EDIT:
Sundance answered that bit about the Gold statements and the "Pro Circuit" tag perfectly. "I fired that guy".
I ain't even mad anymore.
If I hadn't already bought a Winter Arena pass, Sundance would have sold me tonight. He handled this well.
Sounds like MLG is broke or is having their credit reviewed and needs some quick cash. Firing 25 employees and trying to extort the audience for $20 for a single weekend...? "We had no other choice!"
I couldn't purchase a gold membership because I live in the state of Iowa. I don't really get that but I went with silver.. here is an excerpt from an email I received from MLG regarding what it takes to upgrade to gold..received February 2nd, 2012.
GameBattles Premium Access does not include any access to HD video. For those of you who are also interested in watching MLG Pro Circuit Championships in HD online, we recommend you check out the MLG Gold Membership Card, which is available at GameStop and Toys "R" Us stores nationwide. For $30, you'll get access to an entire year of Pro Circuit Championship livestreams in HD and an entire year of GameBattles Premium Access.
Seems incredibly misleading to me. I get that these arena events are 'different'. But regardless of if it's legal I would feel like I was taken advantage of if I had paid for gold membership.
I propose that MLG drop the fee and refund everyone for this Arena. Show us how awesome 5 streams can be. And then offer a reasonable price for future Arenas and people will be much more willing to pay. I'm off work this weekend, but I doubt I"ll be watching the MLG Winter Arena. And I was extremely excited about it when I first heard it announced.
Edit: I found this ironic. Posted on MLG's site in the news section where they announce the PPV and basically tell us they are offering more content with their hands out.
"With every [b]new year [/b ]comes change, and growth, and the chance to do things better and bring you more. If you truly want to support the industry and players, while getting a greater amount of top-quality gameplay, we encourage you to participate in the new MLG Premium offerings."
If MLG announced this at the very beginning of the year instead of a month and a half later I doubt ANYONE would be saying ANYTHING besides "20 bucks? that's kinda high.. but it's gonna be awesome.. so what the hell"
On February 16 2012 07:39 zOula... wrote: I don't even understand why this thread was created if MLG is just gonna disappear into the shadows when questions other than "how much does it cost" are asked.
I think it's just a wait and hope it disappears tactic. Less and less impressed with MLG every day honestly.
On February 16 2012 10:42 VirgilSC2 wrote: Sundance answered that bit about the Gold statements and the "Pro Circuit" tag perfectly. "I fired that guy".
I ain't even mad anymore.
Well, it's great that you're not mad, but they're still liable for fraudulent advertising...firing the guy that made the mistake doesn't make the corporation any less responsible.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
1. Lag 2. To prevent cheating (someone in the seat beside you) 3. Streamcheating if it's done live. And imagine all the bitching if it wasn't streamed live.
So I'm guessing Friday and Saturday will be SC2 gameplay only. Then on Sunday whatever they have recorded off the air will fill up 3-4 other streams?
When I see "in addition to a bunch of leading members of the scene"
I think about all the people that will be CASTING the SC2 gameplay. I want interviews constantly throughout the event and not just the short and sweet pre and post match interviews. Also I am not going to pay $20 if are just going to ask each and every player the same set of questions during each interview. Change it up and change up the interviewer early and often. This event will have significant downtime similar to other MLG events and I really really want to see MLG make the most of that downtime now that there will be 5 streams, 4 of which won't have ads and don't need to stay blank during a time when a ad would normally be running. I like giving the casters time to build up the upcoming match. Since there will be less matches on Sunday I think it would be a great opportunity to establish the caster couch and give the other casters a chance to talk about the players rather than scrambling all over the venue hoping for live streamed interviews. If you would like to have those unused casters create canned content then that is perfectly fine. All the merrier come Columbus!
Successful business models put the member/customer in the center of everything they do. In my opinion, with SC2 having such a worldwide audience the Winter Arena PPV format will does achieve this however at what cost. Attending my first MLG event last year, the most valuable & attractive element was the interaction with those in the community around me... The impact to my commitment & interest in esports through the real time excitement I was engaged in with fellow fans & leading personalities within the community who were sitting next to me was profound. I felt a part of something which built brand loyalty & fostered my continued excitement to participate in as many future spectator events as possible. I'm sitting here now, in lovely CT (USA) **cough cough**, with a room booked in the city for this weekend, greatly disappointed in the direction of this event. Will I venture down to a Barcraft, most likely yes......
1) Will MLG have an opportunity to receive money from me for this event, no.... 2) Will I have an opportunity for seats above the "dugout" watching & routing for my favorite teams & players, no.... 3) Will I have the opportunity to purchase a piece of memorabilia reminding my of my attendance/participation in the event, no... 4) Will I sit next to people from Texas, Europe, Asia, & bicker about what strat could have been deployed, no... 5) Will I feel a part of this event, no.....
This event will not increase awareness or participation which is critical to the future of our lovely sport... "winning hearts & minds" & providing an outlet for fans to maximize the spend of their hard earned money in a fun & interactive way within the industry is only win-win. Understanding financial constraints often dictate the decisions & directions of a growing industry/company, offering some sort of vehicle, even if on a limited basis, to answer yes to the above 5 questions will be paramount to the future success. As regional or committed fans we don't feel in the center of this decision....This weekend, in a city of 8+ million, in the City That Never Sleeps, the Big Apple, one of the most famous cities in the world, MLG left a ton on the table. We want spend our money, we want our sport to be successful, but in exchange all we ask for is the ability to answer "Yes" to the above 5 questions.... We want our "sport" to truly be a sport........
I'm Kyle Magee, one of the guys at MLG responsible for making our Arena Streaming Experience as awesome as possible.
There's been a lot of talk about our plans to try a PPV model for this first Arena, and I'm not here to talk about that any further. Frankly, I think everyone is sick of discussing it. Whether you are happy with it, unhappy with it, or just wish everyone would shut up about it, that discussion is for another time.
I'm here today for three reasons:
1. To get your feedback on our new premium streaming experience page. We set out with a goal of building an experience that would rival anything you'd use to watch a live stream online. We're not there yet, but I think we're off to a good start. This has been my main focus over the past two weeks, and I'm pretty excited to see everyone use it this weekend. I'd love if you could take a few minutes to check it out, and write a quick post in this thread telling me what you like, what you don't like, and what (if any) kind of bugs you experience; feature suggestions are also welcome. While I can't promise we'll address everything before this weekend, this page will be updated throughout the year. This is the same type of experience you can expect during our Championship Events as a Gold Member or someone with an HD pass, so even if you don't plan on watching the Arena this weekend, it's worth your time to help improve the page for the future (I hope).
2. To show off this bad boy. A group of three of us have worked in it for two weeks now and we've been itching to get it out there in front of our fans. Do I hope it helps convince you to buy a PPV pass this weekend? Of course. But what I'm really after right now is some feedback from the very people we designed this type of experience for.
3. To answer any questions you might have about how the page works. I want everyone to understand how to best take advantage of this page before the Event, so you don't have to spend valuable Starcraft watching time figuring out how to really experience all this page has to offer.
Here's a list of known bugs or additions we're attempting to make to the page before the Arena:
- Feedback button removed - Spoiler-free VOD page setup - Notification pop-up system - Fix issues with IE 8 - Remove Buy Now Button from top of page - 16:10 aspect ratio cuts off right side of screen - Twitch TV chat embed instead of JTV embed (Nicer aesthetics) - Double Click to fullscreen instead of single click - Fix display ad block
Thanks in advance to anyone who provides constructive feedback, and I'm really excited to hear what else we can do to help make this page as awesome as possible. I'll also try to be as active as possible in this thread, answering any questions you might have about how the page works.
i did some testing and the 1-5 keybinds do not work for me. The arrows and WASD work like a charm. I am running on win 7 32 bit (got my patches last night) and i am browsing with google chrome version 17.0.963.56.
Also: if you build this ground up in 2 weeks, you guys did an amazing job.
I'm excited to see what content the Dr Pepper stream produces. That will be what makes or breaks it, imo (unless there is something very wrong with the tournament broadcasting).
On February 23 2012 04:39 Rabbet wrote: So you are making people pay to beta test your new stream features?
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
1. Lag 2. To prevent cheating (someone in the seat beside you) 3. Streamcheating if it's done live. And imagine all the bitching if it wasn't streamed live.
i would imagine it would be less bitching than the amount that has erupted over the ppv thing :D
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
1. Lag 2. To prevent cheating (someone in the seat beside you) 3. Streamcheating if it's done live. And imagine all the bitching if it wasn't streamed live.
Lag won't be fixed because of bnet 0.2.
However, I've been curious about this for the longest time. Why couldn't one just incorporate a delayed broadcast, say by 15 minutes, while running the games on protected maps? Would there be any significant downsides to that?
On February 23 2012 04:38 betaV1.25 wrote: Hi MLG-Kyle,
i did some testing and the 1-5 keybinds do not work for me. The arrows and WASD work like a charm. I am running on win 7 32 bit (got my patches last night) and i am browsing with google chrome version 17.0.963.56.
Also: if you build this ground up in 2 weeks, you guys did an amazing job.
Interesting. I'll see if we can replicate that over here. It might mean that you have to end up using arrow keys or WASD for this Arena though; sorry about that.
Yeah, it has been a crazy two weeks for three of us, including just one developer... That's part of the reason I'm trying to collect as much feedback as possible this week. Thanks for the help.
On February 23 2012 04:38 betaV1.25 wrote: Also: if you build this ground up in 2 weeks, you guys did an amazing job.
I wouldn't call it amazing, it's decent but it's kinda a slap in the face when you implement PPV and totally rely on javascript without a alternative. Kinda sloppy, so i call it decent for now.
@MLG-Kyle: What about support for those of us with 2 (or more) monitors? Just allowing more than one browser window to access the stream will be good enough, but that was blocked for last years HD streams.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
1. Lag 2. To prevent cheating (someone in the seat beside you) 3. Streamcheating if it's done live. And imagine all the bitching if it wasn't streamed live.
Lag won't be fixed because of bnet 0.2.
However, I've been curious about this for the longest time. Why couldn't one just incorporate a delayed broadcast, say by 15 minutes, while running the games on protected maps? Would there be any significant downsides to that?
Both players playing on the NA server instead of NA->KR or NA->EU is infinitely better though. There will still be lag and possible DCs as we've seen in the past but you reduce that chance of both when you play on the same server from the same location.
Really hard to pass up winter arena to voice my concern about PPV when my favourite casters are flown in and my favourite players are also here ............
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
1. Lag 2. To prevent cheating (someone in the seat beside you) 3. Streamcheating if it's done live. And imagine all the bitching if it wasn't streamed live.
Lag won't be fixed because of bnet 0.2.
However, I've been curious about this for the longest time. Why couldn't one just incorporate a delayed broadcast, say by 15 minutes, while running the games on protected maps? Would there be any significant downsides to that?
Even at 15 minutes streamcheating could be done. Especially if it was your friend watching it to watch for some crazy weird things. For example remeber that GSL game where Jjakji expanded on Tal'Darim behind the mineral line? Nice long macro game and that base was virtually never scouted.
Also I prefer to watch things live not even 15 minutes delayed; it just feels different. I'm hoping that they bring back the live audiences again though, no live audience combined with PPV; I'm buying a ticket this time, but I will not if they don't bring a live audience and LQ free stream back for next time.
On February 15 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote: Okay, so here's the rundown of the premium cost.
I still don't see why you are spending 80k+ on air travel, hotel rooms, food, etc. when all of this could be done online when there's no fan interaction.
Live matches + no lag for players is worth my 20$.
On February 23 2012 05:20 Rannasha wrote: @MLG-Kyle: What about support for those of us with 2 (or more) monitors? Just allowing more than one browser window to access the stream will be good enough, but that was blocked for last years HD streams.
You can open up more than one browser window if you choose, as long as you have the bandwith to support it.
On February 23 2012 05:20 Rannasha wrote: @MLG-Kyle: What about support for those of us with 2 (or more) monitors? Just allowing more than one browser window to access the stream will be good enough, but that was blocked for last years HD streams.
You can open up more than one browser window if you choose, as long as you have the bandwith to support it.
What about multiple computers in the same house? Can you watch 4 streams across two computers? (e.g. you have 2 computers with 2 monitors each). From the same IP since they are in the same house.
Hypothetical, I'm not buying PPV because I got MLG silver and couldn't do the above for the last MLG when I wanted to, so until I'm sure I can watch the content I pay for in the way I want, and MLG has proven itself again, I won't be spending more money.
On February 23 2012 05:20 Rannasha wrote: @MLG-Kyle: What about support for those of us with 2 (or more) monitors? Just allowing more than one browser window to access the stream will be good enough, but that was blocked for last years HD streams.
You can open up more than one browser window if you choose, as long as you have the bandwith to support it.
Thanks for the response. Bandwidth isn't a problem
First I gotta say I'm quite happy with the new setup you've been working on! Here are two points that would make it even better :
1) Please implement setups with the "little" streams on the side of the stream instead of at the bottom (like it's done at Wellplayed when you watch 3 streams at once). This would better maximise the available screen space for widescreen monitors or TVs.
2) In firefox, while in full-screen mode with the quad setup (on a 1080p monitor) and setting the quality to "auto", when you move your cursor up top the screen a bit too much, a small firefox top bar appears which triggers the quality of the stream to step down to 720p and again step up to 1080p when we move the cursor away. This could be a bit annoying, so if you think of an easy fix, it'd be nice.
Thanks for finally allowing us to use dual-monitors at long last!!! I've been complaining about this for like a year, so it's great to hear you will let us open as many streams as we want now. This would have been my #1 point otherwise...
On February 23 2012 05:20 Rannasha wrote: @MLG-Kyle: What about support for those of us with 2 (or more) monitors? Just allowing more than one browser window to access the stream will be good enough, but that was blocked for last years HD streams.
You can open up more than one browser window if you choose, as long as you have the bandwith to support it.
What about multiple computers in the same house? Can you watch 4 streams across two computers? (e.g. you have 2 computers with 2 monitors each). From the same IP since they are in the same house.
Hypothetical, I'm not buying PPV because I got MLG silver and couldn't do the above for the last MLG when I wanted to, so until I'm sure I can watch the content I pay for in the way I want, and MLG has proven itself again, I won't be spending more money.
You cannot use the PPV pass on more than one computer at a time. Twitch limits your number of active logins to 1.
On February 23 2012 05:20 Rannasha wrote: @MLG-Kyle: What about support for those of us with 2 (or more) monitors? Just allowing more than one browser window to access the stream will be good enough, but that was blocked for last years HD streams.
You can open up more than one browser window if you choose, as long as you have the bandwith to support it.
What about multiple computers in the same house? Can you watch 4 streams across two computers? (e.g. you have 2 computers with 2 monitors each). From the same IP since they are in the same house.
Hypothetical, I'm not buying PPV because I got MLG silver and couldn't do the above for the last MLG when I wanted to, so until I'm sure I can watch the content I pay for in the way I want, and MLG has proven itself again, I won't be spending more money.
You cannot use the PPV pass on more than one computer at a time. Twitch limits your number of active logins to 1.
Good to know that it's twice the price that MLG Silver was, and worse because while with MLG silver you could watch HD streams on one computer, and free SD on another, now you can only watch on one computer.
@MLG Kyle It cuts off on my monitor, on the right side. When you click the video to bring it to full screen, approximately one inch of video is eliminated on the right side. I am using a macbook pro, 1280x800 13 inch screen, in safari browser. See below image.
Minor suggestion though - can the PiP screen be lowered just a tiny bit so we can see both players mineral/gas/food counts in the top left? From the demo I could only see Purple because the PiP box was blocking it a little.
Actually now I think about it, what would be cooler is if you could move and drag the PiP box around the screen. Don't know if that is possible to do though
On February 23 2012 05:20 Rannasha wrote: @MLG-Kyle: What about support for those of us with 2 (or more) monitors? Just allowing more than one browser window to access the stream will be good enough, but that was blocked for last years HD streams.
You can open up more than one browser window if you choose, as long as you have the bandwith to support it.
What about multiple computers in the same house? Can you watch 4 streams across two computers? (e.g. you have 2 computers with 2 monitors each). From the same IP since they are in the same house.
Hypothetical, I'm not buying PPV because I got MLG silver and couldn't do the above for the last MLG when I wanted to, so until I'm sure I can watch the content I pay for in the way I want, and MLG has proven itself again, I won't be spending more money.
You cannot use the PPV pass on more than one computer at a time. Twitch limits your number of active logins to 1.
Good to know that it's twice the price that MLG Silver was, and worse because while with MLG silver you could watch HD streams on one computer, and free SD on another, now you can only watch on one computer.
I kinda agree with you that this is a problem... I suggest looking at this cool little software as a possible solution though.
On February 23 2012 09:06 Xxio wrote: Why so angry, god of aunvils? This thread seems pretty OK to me.
It does seem somewhat of a grey area considering this a PPV-only event, which means any thread made by MLG about this event is for profit/advertising. Is TL getting a slice of the pie or are they just using TL to profit off of the biggest SC2 community website? Normally wouldn't a thread like this have to be under the "Sponsored Threads" section since it is a direct advertisement to make money off of TL users? I guess TL is ok with it since they haven't said anything to the contrary and the thread is still open.
On February 23 2012 09:06 Xxio wrote: Why so angry, god of aunvils? This thread seems pretty OK to me.
It does seem somewhat of a grey area considering this a PPV-only event, which means any thread made by MLG about this event is for profit/advertising. Is TL getting a slice of the pie or are they just using TL to profit off of the biggest SC2 community website? Normally wouldn't a thread like this have to be under the "Sponsored Threads" section since it is a direct advertisement to make money off of TL users? I guess TL is ok with it since they haven't said anything to the contrary and the thread is still open.
For exactly this reason. Aside from my disgust about the PPV I really do not like advertisements like this in this section. And, seriously, this is obviously an advertisement.
On February 23 2012 10:21 roymarthyup wrote: i have a slight question about this MLG PPV event
i know when someone orders UFC on PPV, the PPV cable TV company gets a large cut of the money (sometimes a 55% cut) and UFC doesnt get all of it
however i bet since this is online PPV through MLG's website, MLG should be receiving 100% of the money that the PPV plan generates, correct?
or is there someone else that is taking a cut of MLG's PPV money?
crap, just remembered maybe blizzard is taking a cut. hope its no more than 10% or that would be stupid
Twitchtv is taking a cut as well afaik.
dunno why MLG would do that when they have streams on their own website and they could get 100% of the money by just running their streams?
man this seems so crazy. why wouldnt mlg just use their streams to make all the money off their own event so they dont have to pay any leeches
or i guess maybe twitch is working with them to run the streams or something so this is MLG's way of paying twitch to do the streamwork while MLG no longer needs to hire people to do streamwork. if thats the case i understand it.
On February 23 2012 09:06 Xxio wrote: Why so angry, god of aunvils? This thread seems pretty OK to me.
It does seem somewhat of a grey area considering this a PPV-only event, which means any thread made by MLG about this event is for profit/advertising. Is TL getting a slice of the pie or are they just using TL to profit off of the biggest SC2 community website? Normally wouldn't a thread like this have to be under the "Sponsored Threads" section since it is a direct advertisement to make money off of TL users? I guess TL is ok with it since they haven't said anything to the contrary and the thread is still open.
For exactly this reason. Aside from my disgust about the PPV I really do not like advertisements like this in this section. And, seriously, this is obviously an advertisement.
You are right, this thread isn't ideal. We talked about this as the staff, and decided that if GOM was rolling out a new model and people had questions about it, they would have a thread too. People want to know how they can watch, so it is important to have that information out there. And no, TL is not getting any cut.
I actually had to borrow money to pay for this, and I am sooooo excited. They are doing so much to put on the BEST run tournament yet! The big thing is if they fuck up (outside of stuff like a van hitting the internet) I and EVERYONE else that paid will be furious and MLG can bet they will never be able to charge money for an event ever again. MLG if you are reading this, STOP BRINGING ROBIN AS A FUCKING CASTER!
On February 23 2012 10:21 roymarthyup wrote: i have a slight question about this MLG PPV event
i know when someone orders UFC on PPV, the PPV cable TV company gets a large cut of the money (sometimes a 55% cut) and UFC doesnt get all of it
however i bet since this is online PPV through MLG's website, MLG should be receiving 100% of the money that the PPV plan generates, correct?
or is there someone else that is taking a cut of MLG's PPV money?
crap, just remembered maybe blizzard is taking a cut. hope its no more than 10% or that would be stupid
Twitchtv is taking a cut as well afaik.
dunno why MLG would do that when they have streams on their own website and they could get 100% of the money by just running their streams?
man this seems so crazy. why wouldnt mlg just use their streams to make all the money off their own event so they dont have to pay any leeches
or i guess maybe twitch is working with them to run the streams or something so this is MLG's way of paying twitch to do the streamwork while MLG no longer needs to hire people to do streamwork. if thats the case i understand it.
I don't think MLG has ever had the infrastructure to do their own streams. In past MLGs it appeared this way because the company they used didn't plaster their name on the stream, but I'm pretty sure they were using an outside source for the stream/streaming bandwidth. For instance, MLG would provide the initial stream, then another company would rebroadcast that stream using their own bandwidth that could support thousands of users. So even something like the satellite truck was only used as a backup for the initial stream, and not for world-wide streaming broadcasts. I could be mistaken, but I remember reading something along those lines once upon a time.
On February 23 2012 09:06 Xxio wrote: Why so angry, god of aunvils? This thread seems pretty OK to me.
It does seem somewhat of a grey area considering this a PPV-only event, which means any thread made by MLG about this event is for profit/advertising. Is TL getting a slice of the pie or are they just using TL to profit off of the biggest SC2 community website? Normally wouldn't a thread like this have to be under the "Sponsored Threads" section since it is a direct advertisement to make money off of TL users? I guess TL is ok with it since they haven't said anything to the contrary and the thread is still open.
For exactly this reason. Aside from my disgust about the PPV I really do not like advertisements like this in this section. And, seriously, this is obviously an advertisement.
You are right, this thread isn't ideal. We talked about this as the staff, and decided that if GOM was rolling out a new model and people had questions about it, they would have a thread too. People want to know how they can watch, so it is important to have that information out there. And no, TL is not getting any cut.
Didn't everyone know about it from the initial announcement? If people want to learn more about it or have questions then they can head over to the MLG website. I dunno if I'd be so kind as to let an outside company come into my place of business and profit off of my popularity. It'd be like Verizon setting up a kiosk inside of Best Buy and selling their phones at their own kiosk instead at the Best Buy checkout and doing this without paying any type of fees whatsoever. They'd increase their profits solely based on the work/reputation of another establishment, the exact same as MLG is doing through this thread on TL.
On top of MLG taking advantage of TL's popularity for their own gain, I think TL should be asking themselves if they really want to promote PPV-only SC2 events. Does it fall in line with TL's views of the future of SC2? If this somehow ends up working for MLG, other companies will follow this model. Is this something TL wants to be a part of? Can we expect the next TSL to be pay-per-view-only?
I'll stop talking about it now since y'all have obviously already discussed it and came to a different conclusion than I have drawn.
On February 23 2012 09:06 Xxio wrote: Why so angry, god of aunvils? This thread seems pretty OK to me.
It does seem somewhat of a grey area considering this a PPV-only event, which means any thread made by MLG about this event is for profit/advertising. Is TL getting a slice of the pie or are they just using TL to profit off of the biggest SC2 community website? Normally wouldn't a thread like this have to be under the "Sponsored Threads" section since it is a direct advertisement to make money off of TL users? I guess TL is ok with it since they haven't said anything to the contrary and the thread is still open.
For exactly this reason. Aside from my disgust about the PPV I really do not like advertisements like this in this section. And, seriously, this is obviously an advertisement.
You are right, this thread isn't ideal. We talked about this as the staff, and decided that if GOM was rolling out a new model and people had questions about it, they would have a thread too. People want to know how they can watch, so it is important to have that information out there. And no, TL is not getting any cut.
Didn't everyone know about it from the initial announcement? If people want to learn more about it or have questions then they can head over to the MLG website. I dunno if I'd be so kind as to let an outside company come into my place of business and profit off of my popularity. It'd be like Verizon setting up a kiosk inside of Best Buy and selling their phones at their own kiosk instead at the Best Buy checkout and doing this without paying any type of fees whatsoever. They'd increase their profits solely based on the work/reputation of another establishment, the exact same as MLG is doing through this thread on TL.
On top of MLG taking advantage of TL's popularity for their own gain, I think TL should be asking themselves if they really want to promote PPV-only SC2 events. Does it fall in line with TL's views of the future of SC2? If this somehow ends up working for MLG, other companies will follow this model. Is this something TL wants to be a part of? Can we expect the next TSL to be pay-per-view-only?
I'll stop talking about it now since y'all have obviously already discussed it and came to a different conclusion than I have drawn.
Thanks for the advice, please stop derailing the thread.
Sorry if this has been answered, but will replays be made available any time in the near future? So many good zergs, I'd be so happy to get my hands on all the replays :D
Super no problem at all, everything works wondefully. (3)
43%
Just a few issues but quickly resovled (0)
0%
i spend as many time with the support team as watching the tournament. (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: How do you appreciate the MLG products?
(Vote): Super no problem at all, everything works wondefully. (Vote): Just a few issues but quickly resovled (Vote): i spend as many time with the support team as watching the tournament. (Vote): That's a shame, a scam. I want my money back.