The balance changes which have been planned for patch 1.4.3 are currently in the process of being implemented. We apologize for any delays, and for any confusion that you might have experienced in the meantime.
I'll update this thread further when the updates are completed.
Apparently blizzard has the power to activate/deactivate balance changed without patching :o
Before laddering i went into unit tester to play with the new phoenix upgrade (Anion pulse Crystals, 150/150 - 90 second research time)
Then when i Laddered, the opportunity arose to use the new upgrade, but it was not present at the fleet beacon...
what gives?
my friends told me the ghost changes and other stuff is currently active.
LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Because once you get it you hard-hard counter mutalisks so much to the point where they cannot even be on the field anymore.
Sorry that it's not super-easy accessible and you'll have to do what everyone has been doing the last few months by defending for a bit before you get this upgrade out finnaly.
I just had a similar experience. Got the fleet beacon in a ladder game specifically to try out the new range upgrade, but only the interceptor upgrade showed up on the fleet beacon.
Then I tried a unit tester and the upgrade showed up there. Weird.
I think Blizzard is trolling us or something, or an early April fools joke?
No patch notes after I installed the patch? Blizzard has been giving patch notes since the very first patch of SC1 and you could always look at the previous notes as well. What gives?
Should be fixed soon. I wouldn't want someone teching up to Fleet Beacon in a serious match only to find out that they can't get the upgrade. However, if it somehow magically went unnoticed until a major tournament, many laughs would have been had.
On February 22 2012 05:17 Filsby wrote: I just had a similar experience. Got the fleet beacon in a ladder game specifically to try out the new range upgrade, but only the interceptor upgrade showed up on the fleet beacon.
Then I tried a unit tester and the upgrade showed up there. Weird.
This. And my ghosts still cause 45 damage. I sniped my own scv to check and it 1 shotted it.
On February 22 2012 05:17 Filsby wrote: I just had a similar experience. Got the fleet beacon in a ladder game specifically to try out the new range upgrade, but only the interceptor upgrade showed up on the fleet beacon.
Then I tried a unit tester and the upgrade showed up there. Weird.
This. And my ghosts still cause 45 damage. I sniped my own scv to check and it 1 shotted it.
lol, great patch -_- Maybe they will do public tests next time instead of being so hasty.
On February 22 2012 05:17 Filsby wrote: I just had a similar experience. Got the fleet beacon in a ladder game specifically to try out the new range upgrade, but only the interceptor upgrade showed up on the fleet beacon.
Then I tried a unit tester and the upgrade showed up there. Weird.
This. And my ghosts still cause 45 damage. I sniped my own scv to check and it 1 shotted it.
lol, great patch -_- Maybe they will do public tests next time instead of being so hasty.
And maybe test if these changes actually make sense in the first place -_-
Maybe they should just skip having a HotS beta too?
On February 22 2012 05:17 Filsby wrote: I just had a similar experience. Got the fleet beacon in a ladder game specifically to try out the new range upgrade, but only the interceptor upgrade showed up on the fleet beacon.
Then I tried a unit tester and the upgrade showed up there. Weird.
This. And my ghosts still cause 45 damage. I sniped my own scv to check and it 1 shotted it.
Made a custom game just now on NA vs computer on Agria Valley. Snipe does 25 damage. Couldn't even one shot my own marines. So that change went through.
On February 22 2012 05:17 Filsby wrote: I just had a similar experience. Got the fleet beacon in a ladder game specifically to try out the new range upgrade, but only the interceptor upgrade showed up on the fleet beacon.
Then I tried a unit tester and the upgrade showed up there. Weird.
This. And my ghosts still cause 45 damage. I sniped my own scv to check and it 1 shotted it.
Made a custom game just now on NA vs computer on Agria Valley. Snipe does 25 damage. Couldn't even one shot my own marines. So that change went through.
yes, same with mules and the phoenix upgrade. there is NO issue in CUSTOM games.
On February 22 2012 05:17 Filsby wrote: I just had a similar experience. Got the fleet beacon in a ladder game specifically to try out the new range upgrade, but only the interceptor upgrade showed up on the fleet beacon.
Then I tried a unit tester and the upgrade showed up there. Weird.
This. And my ghosts still cause 45 damage. I sniped my own scv to check and it 1 shotted it.
Made a custom game just now on NA vs computer on Agria Valley. Snipe does 25 damage. Couldn't even one shot my own marines. So that change went through.
As mentioned in the OP, changes seem to have worked in custom games vs AI but not in a real multiplayer 1v1.
wow i wonder how they messed this up. Working with servers that stay online all the time really can cause problems. Seems like bnet servers weren't updated while the clients were. Just do the ptr even if you think its not necessary (since no one will forget to update the serves). And blizzard just switched up the difficulty of some units, no intention to test that (thats their mind set it seems looking at their actions, i have different opinions on this and think the changes aren't necessary, they will just make it way easier for the already good players, while the weaker ones will just struggle against it)
Anyway the funnies patch bug i saw (was only on a test server). Was when two monsters where exchanged. Orc Lord and Orc Lady. One being a monster that spawned 30 times instantly on a map, the other being a boss monster that spawned 1 time every 2 hours. Was really funny, because on the same patch those bosses got stronger.
Common mistake nothing to get upset about ... expect an emergency patch.
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Because once you get it you hard-hard counter mutalisks so much to the point where they cannot even be on the field anymore.
Sorry that it's not super-easy accessible and you'll have to do what everyone has been doing the last few months by defending for a bit before you get this upgrade out finnaly.
Bring a couple currupters? Hydras and Fungel counter Phoenix too. Let's actually wait and see how it works over a period of a couple months before declaring on day 1 that you'll never see mutas again. One thing for sure is 40 muta DRG style won't be a insta loss for professional protoss anymore.
On February 22 2012 05:17 Filsby wrote: I just had a similar experience. Got the fleet beacon in a ladder game specifically to try out the new range upgrade, but only the interceptor upgrade showed up on the fleet beacon.
Then I tried a unit tester and the upgrade showed up there. Weird.
This. And my ghosts still cause 45 damage. I sniped my own scv to check and it 1 shotted it.
Made a custom game just now on NA vs computer on Agria Valley. Snipe does 25 damage. Couldn't even one shot my own marines. So that change went through.
yes, same with mules and the phoenix upgrade. there is NO issue in CUSTOM games.
so im really confused, you guys are telling me that snipe and mule change hasn't taken effect yet on the ladder, but i know for a fact that the apm/eapm is on the ladder, so hmmmm, if the apm/eapm is on the ladder i feel like the other changes should be on there too.... lol im confused!!
On February 22 2012 05:17 Filsby wrote: I just had a similar experience. Got the fleet beacon in a ladder game specifically to try out the new range upgrade, but only the interceptor upgrade showed up on the fleet beacon.
Then I tried a unit tester and the upgrade showed up there. Weird.
This. And my ghosts still cause 45 damage. I sniped my own scv to check and it 1 shotted it.
Made a custom game just now on NA vs computer on Agria Valley. Snipe does 25 damage. Couldn't even one shot my own marines. So that change went through.
yes, same with mules and the phoenix upgrade. there is NO issue in CUSTOM games.
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Because once you get it you hard-hard counter mutalisks so much to the point where they cannot even be on the field anymore.
Sorry that it's not super-easy accessible and you'll have to do what everyone has been doing the last few months by defending for a bit before you get this upgrade out finnaly.
Tell me how on earth this upgrade comes out in time to deal with big muta balls while you still have the economy/production to keep up a ground army to keep up with a mass ground army switch.
Mutas were slowly becoming less of an issue as players were getting better with dealing them, I just think that this upgrade is rather pointless and by trying to get it in a game you actually hurt yourself.
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Because once you get it you hard-hard counter mutalisks so much to the point where they cannot even be on the field anymore.
Sorry that it's not super-easy accessible and you'll have to do what everyone has been doing the last few months by defending for a bit before you get this upgrade out finnaly.
Tell me how on earth this upgrade comes out in time to deal with big muta balls while you still have the economy/production to keep up a ground army to keep up with a mass ground army switch.
Mutas were slowly becoming less of an issue as players were getting better with dealing them, I just think that this upgrade is rather pointless and by trying to get it in a game you actually hurt yourself.
If you open 2x stargate pheonix, you'll have plenty of time before the mutalisk ball gets out o fhand.
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Because once you get it you hard-hard counter mutalisks so much to the point where they cannot even be on the field anymore.
Sorry that it's not super-easy accessible and you'll have to do what everyone has been doing the last few months by defending for a bit before you get this upgrade out finnaly.
Tell me how on earth this upgrade comes out in time to deal with big muta balls while you still have the economy/production to keep up a ground army to keep up with a mass ground army switch.
Mutas were slowly becoming less of an issue as players were getting better with dealing them, I just think that this upgrade is rather pointless and by trying to get it in a game you actually hurt yourself.
If you open 2x stargate pheonix, you'll have plenty of time before the mutalisk ball gets out o fhand.
Yes.. open 2x stargate phoenix, tech to fleet beacon and buy the upgrade. Laugh as your phoenix crush the mutas then GG out because everything you own has just died to roach ling......
This upgrade is pointless, if I'm going to tech to deal with mutas I mind as well get a unit that can actually hurt the inevitable and very cheap tech switch back to roach ling... Seeing as the whole problem with mutas is getting to a third base. on 2 base Toss cannot tech to stargate/fleetbeacon while supporting a ground army and getting out the much needed collosi or ht to deal with zergs ground army. I really doubt we will see this upgrade used at all in any high level games...
does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
On February 22 2012 05:54 morevox wrote: Turns out this is all over the battle.net website, unfortunately not one blue post on the issue yet......
This doesn't surprise me. They have no problem posting their MLG prediction though.
Well... what do you want them to say at this point? People know there is a problem.. they'll post something when they know why it happened and how to fix it.
On February 22 2012 05:20 winsause wrote: I am confused as to why Blizzard is dropping a huge patch right before mlg..
they did it before a GSL final.... which i think caused the finals to be AWFUL. It kinda shows that blizzard really doesn't care about any tournaments...
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Because once you get it you hard-hard counter mutalisks so much to the point where they cannot even be on the field anymore.
Sorry that it's not super-easy accessible and you'll have to do what everyone has been doing the last few months by defending for a bit before you get this upgrade out finnaly.
Tell me how on earth this upgrade comes out in time to deal with big muta balls while you still have the economy/production to keep up a ground army to keep up with a mass ground army switch.
Mutas were slowly becoming less of an issue as players were getting better with dealing them, I just think that this upgrade is rather pointless and by trying to get it in a game you actually hurt yourself.
If you open 2x stargate pheonix, you'll have plenty of time before the mutalisk ball gets out o fhand.
Yes.. open 2x stargate phoenix, tech to fleet beacon and buy the upgrade. Laugh as your phoenix crush the mutas then GG out because everything you own has just died to roach ling......
This upgrade is pointless, if I'm going to tech to deal with mutas I mind as well get a unit that can actually hurt the inevitable and very cheap tech switch back to roach ling... Seeing as the whole problem with mutas is getting to a third base. on 2 base Toss cannot tech to stargate/fleetbeacon while supporting a ground army and getting out the much needed collosi or ht to deal with zergs ground army. I really doubt we will see this upgrade used at all in any high level games...
Yep, still gonna be much better to just 2 base all in or attempt to get quicker Psi Storm and try to get a third.
Why are we all getting worked up about something like this? Let's stop flaming Blizzard and just give them the benefit of the doubt: it was just an honest mistake
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
With all due respect I feel that if Blizzard puts it in their patch notes and it doesnt work on ladder but does in customs it should be fixed. If it isn't truly viable then it won't get used and if its a terrible idea then it will be patched out.
Plus I've seen some interesting play from Genius who uses pheonixes to be a more mobile defence between his bases that have stalkers at them and with extra range the pheonix would engage sooner and could chase better as well shut down at least a few mutas whenever they run away. Essentially helping to force Zerg players to return home to collect their newly made 10 mutalisks and killing 5 before they get there for example would mean that zerg hits the large muta flock less quickly.
Im not saying its the most practical solution to mass mutas but the added range has benefits elsewhere. One of the problems with sky terran when going pheonix for example was the fact that vikings by nature of 9 range would always get a lot of extra free hits when pheonix try to engage them and if you try to fall back the 9 range also gave more free hits to the vikings. The added range would help a lot with this. If they are going mass air then its not unreasonable to want pheonix with upgrades and you need a fleet beacon to get +2 attack or armour so its a natural progression.
Im not by any means implying I know better then you but I feel we need to give the added a chance and to do so it needs to be coded into the game.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
With all due respect I feel that if Blizzard puts it in their patch notes and it doesnt work on ladder but does in customs it should be fixed. If it isn't truly viable then it won't get used and if its a terrible idea then it will be patched out.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Zerg always has to invest in upgrades to go mutas. Protoss never had to get upgrades for their air to deal with mutas. Explain that to me.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
With all due respect I feel that if Blizzard puts it in their patch notes and it doesnt work on ladder but does in customs it should be fixed. If it isn't truly viable then it won't get used and if its a terrible idea then it will be patched out.
i never saw any patch notes :o
I was under the impression that the situation report for patch 1.4.3 (the latest patch) was representative of the patch notes since the patch went Live and never hit the PTR.
Also it would be extremely strange for all other noted changes to be in effect on the ladder and all noted changes (including the pheonix range upgrade) to be in effect in custom games would it not?
there are patch notes. i just upgraded and read them all. it has all kinds of bug fixes like "fixed an issue where players would be disconnected from custom games when spending extended time in a lobby" and also had mac fixes. there are definitely patch notes.
Guys this upgrade obviously this makes giant fleets of Phoenixs overpowered. They couldn't introduce the patch. But really I have no idea what they really thought this would do. It just makes you put all your eggs in one basket if you tech to this. Phoenix is already a bit risky if you invest a lot as they cant fight anything but mutas.
On February 22 2012 06:34 TheResidentEvil wrote: there are patch notes. i just upgraded and read them all. it has all kinds of bug fixes like "fixed an issue where players would be disconnected from custom games when spending extended time in a lobby" and also had mac fixes. there are definitely patch notes.
APM values displayed on the Leader Board are now calculated by counting every click and command that has been issued by the player. EPM values displayed on the Leader Board are calculated by counting only actual commands issued by the player (Effective Actions Per Minute). Zerg Larvae are now displayed in the unit panel of the Leader Board.
Balance
PROTOSS Phoenix A new upgrade has been added to the Fleet Beacon: Anion Pulse-Crystals. This upgrade increases Phoenix weapon range by +2.
TERRAN Ghost Snipe damage changed from 45 to 25 (+25 vs Psionic). Orbital Command Center MULE now always returns 30 minerals per trip, regardless of mineral type.
Bug Fixes
The “Try the Next Patch” button now properly launches the PTR client when a PTR is available. Unread chat notifications no longer reset when entering or leaving a game. Map information now loads immediately in the Match History screen after logging onto Battle.net. In the Korean version, the Reduced Violence option now remains checked when restoring gameplay defaults. Fixed a display issue that could occur when binding certain keys on a French keyboard. Fixed a crash that could occur when exiting StarCraft II on systems with Geforce FX 5700 graphics cards. Fixed a crash that could occur when saving and loading games between High and Low video settings. Fixed an issue that could cause some players to be dropped from custom games after spending an extended time in the lobby. Fixed an issue which was causing some players with a full version of SC2 to be stuck in Starter Edition. Fixed an issue that could cause ladder matches to sometimes start three seconds late. Fixed an issue where overlapping units could sometimes traverse cliff levels. Fixed an issue which prevented some players from receiving credit for Top X achievements after Season 3. Fixed an issue which caused FFA games to reset the progress of the Team Hot Streak achievement. Fixed an issue where the Restart button was incorrectly showing up when loading Vs. AI saved games from previous versions of StarCraft II.
Mac Bug Fixes
Fixed an issue where the cursor would disappear when using the middle mouse button. Fixed an issue which caused performance to drop significantly during large battles. Fixed an issue that was causing certain mod maps to crash after loading. The Reduce Mouse Lag option now works properly on Macs.
the only purpose of the upgrade is so when its 200food vs 200food, the protoss doesnt lose his entire base by a fleet of mutas as he walks across the map to attack the zergs main
before, the zerg could take free shots with the mutas and they were so fast and protoss could not get 20 pheonix needed to counter 30 mutas reliably so the zerg would just have free reign to keep counterattacking the protoss and get free building kills if the toss tries to move out to kill the zergs main
this new patch forces the zerg army to engage the protoss army because base trades no longer work because 10 pheonix now counter those 30 mutas. Why does blizzard want to remove base trading options? I dunno... i guess blizzard seems to think 200food of broodlord/infestor/muta/roach/ultralisk/corrupter can trade evenly with 200food of any protoss army or else they wouldnt have put the pheonix upgrade in
whether or not blizzard is correct about their belief that 200food of zerg can beat 200food of protoss, is another discussion. I believe that blizzard is wrong in their belief, but i guess plenty more ZvP's need to happen in GSL where this is shown to be the case before blizzard reacts
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Zerg always has to invest in upgrades to go mutas. Protoss never had to get upgrades for their air to deal with mutas. Explain that to me.
Phoenix's are supposed to hard counter Mutalisks, and the fact is, they don't a good job of it. Especially because they also serve very few other purposes in the game (can't hit structures or massive ground units, are limited by energy to the targets they can't hit on the ground, don't do well vs armored air units...). It would be one thing if they cost 100/75 or excelled at some other role, but they don't. They cost more than a Mutalisk, and Infestors with Fungal and Infested Terrans make short work of a large number of Phoenixes.
Even with this upgrade, I'm not sure I understand how this going to lead to me using more Phoenixes. Blink Stalkers are good against just about everything Zerg has, including Mutalisks, might as well build them a long with some Templar.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
Useless for people that never go air -_- I'm not going to argue strategy with a pro, but there are many people that do Stargate builds and this seems like it will make Phoenixes viable more than just early/mid game as long as you can keep their numbers growing. Only time will tell.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
Useless for people that never go air -_- I'm not going to argue strategy with a pro, but there are many people that do Stargate builds and this seems like it will make Phoenixes viable more than just early/mid game as long as you can keep their numbers growing. Only time will tell.
nony is right. this pheonix upgrade will have literally ZERO change in all ZvP you see in tournaments other than the lategame 200food basetrade scenario
which actually, seems to be happening a lot. so in those scenarios, this change will actually cause things to shift and zerg has alot harder time basetrading when 5 pheonix can slowly chip away and eliminate 30 mutas
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
Useless for people that never go air -_- I'm not going to argue strategy with a pro, but there are many people that do Stargate builds and this seems like it will make Phoenixes viable more than just early/mid game as long as you can keep their numbers growing. Only time will tell.
I was one of those people, but Fungal Growth stops Phoenixes dead in their tracks, so the long term viability of Phoenixes is almost nil. Maybe you get some Drones and Overlords, but they will likely not pay for themselves unless you kill a big pack of Mutas. But if the Mutalisk player makes a quick transition then...
Phoenixes are a dead end in PvZ. Imagine if you couldn't morph Corrupters into Brood Lords, how bad they would be. Protoss would mass Colossus just so they Zerg had to mass Corrupters. That is the situation we have here with Mutalisks and Phoenixes.
I would have preferred to see that Phoenixes were now immune to Fungal Growth than this upgrade.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
ya it does seem kinda dumb i bet what blizzard was worried about is if carriers were removed the fleet beacon would contain no upgrades lol
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
Useless for people that never go air -_- I'm not going to argue strategy with a pro, but there are many people that do Stargate builds and this seems like it will make Phoenixes viable more than just early/mid game as long as you can keep their numbers growing. Only time will tell.
I was one of those people, but Fungal Growth stops Phoenixes dead in their tracks, so the long term viability of Phoenixes is nil.
I would have preferred to see that Phoenixes were now immune to Fungal Growth than this upgrade.
Sure but they protect the base while protoss can still move out with his army. If Zerg is foolosh enough to try and base trade he will lose to 10 +2 phoenix.
I would have preferred fungal not target air as well. Addresses a lot of issues for Terran as well - like vikings and almost everything else but old Ghosts being useless against BL/Cor/infestor. Plus it makes no sense that fungal gets in the air and locks air units down because air units not moving crash. So it should either kill air units outright or not target them at all. Oh well.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
Just one building.... that building costs 300/200.... if you invest that much while making enough phoenix to deal with muta, you're going to get over run with lings instantly and still not be able to take a third. It's a safe bet no one will bother with this upgrade.
You point to BFH but that was an upgrade you could get from a tech lab that you are always going to put on your factory anyway. and was extremely cheap while being useful in many different situations. This upgrade is an extremely expensive upgrade which really only helps against mutas.... no where near the same thing.
I'm normally on your side with these kinds of things, let it play out maybe it can work we just can't see it now. This upgrade is not one of those times though. Maybe if they upped the cost to 200/200 and put it on the core it could be useful.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
I dont understand why sir Nony is so upset. Blizzard is obviously trying to help protoss with this patch yet they still get nothing but scorn from protoss players.
By the way, official statement made by blizzard on missing shit right now..
Hey all!
The balance changes which have been planned for patch 1.4.3 are currently in the process of being implemented. We apologize for any delays, and for any confusion that you might have experienced in the meantime.
I'll update this thread further when the updates are completed.
I can't even start a multiplayer game after the patch. Reinstalling now... something tells me it has something to do with the stronger colors mod and relocalizer, but who the hell knows :s
On February 22 2012 07:03 xlava wrote: I can't even start a multiplayer game after the patch. Reinstalling now... something tells me it has something to do with the stronger colors mod and relocalizer, but who the hell knows :s
no don't!!
blizz said they're still patching, the game isn't suppose to work yet.
People don't seem to be able to read when the patch preview clearly states this is to help with the base trade scenario and not in muta defense per se. Previously you had to spam cannons and leave ht behind, which was iffy since mutas if controlled well could overrun these defenses. Instead you cut out a few ht, and add a few phoenix with this upgrade instead. You need the fleet beacon for brood lord infestor anyhow, so the 150/150 is moot. Now, with good phoenix control, the zerg will almost certainly lose all his mutas to about 10-15 phoenix, which is not that much more expensive than HT gas wise, and the minerals you save on excess cannons.
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Because once you get it you hard-hard counter mutalisks so much to the point where they cannot even be on the field anymore.
Sorry that it's not super-easy accessible and you'll have to do what everyone has been doing the last few months by defending for a bit before you get this upgrade out finnaly.
Tell me how on earth this upgrade comes out in time to deal with big muta balls while you still have the economy/production to keep up a ground army to keep up with a mass ground army switch.
Mutas were slowly becoming less of an issue as players were getting better with dealing them, I just think that this upgrade is rather pointless and by trying to get it in a game you actually hurt yourself.
If you open 2x stargate pheonix, you'll have plenty of time before the mutalisk ball gets out o fhand.
The way they're making it sound is as if the zerg saves up 3200/3200 minerals/gas and just goes "surprise!!!"
On February 22 2012 07:03 xlava wrote: I can't even start a multiplayer game after the patch. Reinstalling now... something tells me it has something to do with the stronger colors mod and relocalizer, but who the hell knows :s
no don't!!
blizz said they're still patching, the game isn't suppose to work yet.
they're running late...
If that is true they should have kept the servers down. Or perhaps a weird idea, don't release a patch which isn't finished yet. To me it seems they just screwed up and now have come up with some random excuse Anyway, I don't really care I'm on EU so I expect our patch to work fine. Very handy the US guys act as guinea pigs for the other servers
I wonder what kind of mind games zerg players could do wth this. Something like build a spire but not use it. Hide other tech and laugh while toss is making phoenix and teching to the upgrade. In the future the only way to really know if mutas are actually coming is if you actually see them
On February 22 2012 07:03 xlava wrote: I can't even start a multiplayer game after the patch. Reinstalling now... something tells me it has something to do with the stronger colors mod and relocalizer, but who the hell knows :s
no don't!!
blizz said they're still patching, the game isn't suppose to work yet.
they're running late...
If that is true they should have kept the servers down. Or perhaps a weird idea, don't release a patch which isn't finished yet. To me it seems they just screwed up and now have come up with some random excuse Anyway, I don't really care I'm on EU so I expect our patch to work fine. Very handy the US guys act as guinea pigs for the other servers
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
well too bad forum rules don't apply to you. Last time I saw someone call an idea outright "fucking stupid", they were at least warned.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
I'm not sure this is entirely fair. Blizzard implemented PTR hoping that people would actually do a lot of testing(for balance) but the pro's don't show interest in it because it's volatile. So when something like this comes up and Blizzard wants to see if it will work at the pro level, they have no choice but to patch it into the real server to be "tested." I agree there's the chance that they've overlooked some use of it but when would Blizzard ever patch any underutilized things using that logic? Patching warp prism to have more shields was pretty random because it wasn't based on some kind of numerical evidence that it would be balanced since they weren't being used very often. But people seem ok with it now. The worst case is that blizzard has to patch again a few weeks down the road.
Could that affect major tournaments like MLG and even skew results? Definitely. But I think it's a symptom of the fact that pro's aren't willing to test things on PTR. I understand why it's not worth your time too considering some of the changes might not even go through, but I think it's a tradeoff you have to live with.
lol no I don't think I've ever seen that one. I recall seeing some glitch with colossi walking across thin air or something, but not that tank stacking video.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
While I agree that the particular train of thought is very arbitrary and that sort of reasoning is not okay, I do feel like that is in fact how many aspects of the game function. Everything was created with a purpose and reason, BFH and the ranged phoenix upgrade, however the creative ways all the functions of the game would be utilized could not be foreseen by blizzard or any one individual. Many were not discovered for quite some time. I don't think many would disagree with that, rather I wanted to note that on the other side of this subject, I would not want each ability to be limited do doing only 1 thing and nothing else. I wouldn't want the phoenix range upgrade to only be useful vs mutas, I want to see creative ways it can be used. Same as I don't want snipe be used vs only 2 units in the whole game, making it borderline useless to everything else. We don't know this for a fact yet, as we haven't found out anything else creative with it (which seems unlikely at this moment).
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
I am sorry, but I really don't like statements that support changes by claiming someone clever might figure something out. I can think of a million bad ideas that probably wouldn't change the game significantly but that doesn't mean people should blindly support it hoping someone else can figure it out. Your defense of the upgrade is weak because you don't even provide any decent theorycrafting (which is still weak). The people who are stating that the upgrade is useless have explained why (it is a big investment, delays other tech, locks into one tech tree, is still a slow response, etc). However you have not addressed any of these claims. By claiming that someone clever might do something in the future you really aren't saying anything substantial. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I just don't like it when people support things by saying that it needs more time or that a better player can make it work. I think everybody would much prefer you say "it needs more time because of X, Y, or Z is convoluted" and then proceed to convince people how the upgrade itself can make a significant difference.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
I am sorry, but I really don't like statements that support changes by claiming someone clever might figure something out. I can think of a million bad ideas that probably wouldn't change the game significantly but that doesn't mean people should blindly support it hoping someone else can figure it out. Your defense of the upgrade is weak because you don't even provide any decent theorycrafting (which is still weak). The people who are stating that the upgrade is useless have explained why (it is a big investment, delays other tech, locks into one tech tree, is still a slow response, etc). However you have not addressed any of these claims. By claiming that someone clever might do something in the future you really aren't saying anything substantial. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I just don't like it when people support things by saying that it needs more time or that a better player can make it work. I think everybody would much prefer you say "it needs more time because of X, Y, or Z is convoluted" and then proceed to convince people how the upgrade itself can make a significant difference.
The cost is the big issue. Seriously, 450/350 for +2 range attack on phoenix? Are you kidding me?
But if blizzard even get it into their heads that 300/200 for 1 building that unlocks carriers and mothership and air upgrade +2 might just be part of the reason that protoss air is totally shit house. Especially when you consider how crap carriers are, how situational and expensive the mothership is, and how bad VR are in the mid to end game making the +2 upgrades for air redundant.
On February 22 2012 07:09 magnaflow wrote: I wonder what kind of mind games zerg players could do wth this. Something like build a spire but not use it. Hide other tech and laugh while toss is making phoenix and teching to the upgrade. In the future the only way to really know if mutas are actually coming is if you actually see them
Zerg have already been playing these games with me. Fast spire-I tech to HTs-wait...all his units seem to be roaches...doh, roach-corruptor or roach-infestor. Not that HTs are terrible but I'd much rather go heavy immortal against mass roach.
I'm unsure where +2 range hate is coming from. It's clearly going to be an optional thing for lower leaguers and won't be utilized at top level because phoenix already out range mutas and top level players already have the control they need to keep them alive. With that said, it won't make a big difference for protoss and complaining that it's there when you don't need it is stupid. At least you have the option of a mothership or the option of carrier even if they aren't always useful. I know as a zerg player I use everything blizzard gives me and thank them for it.
On February 22 2012 08:44 emc wrote: I'm unsure where +2 range hate is coming from. It's clearly going to be an optional thing for lower leaguers and won't be utilized at top level because phoenix already out range mutas and top level players already have the control they need to keep them alive. With that said, it won't make a big difference for protoss and complaining that it's there when you don't need it is stupid. At least you have the option of a mothership or the option of carrier even if they aren't always useful. I know as a zerg player I use everything blizzard gives me and thank them for it.
thats not actually true, even pro's don't use phoenix to counter muta, they use cannons and storms, if you watched the daily that day9 did about pvz muta hero makes 6 phoenix's and loses them in the first big engagement vs mutas, then proceeds to win anyway because he's awesome as long as noone is watching.
On February 22 2012 08:44 emc wrote: I'm unsure where +2 range hate is coming from. It's clearly going to be an optional thing for lower leaguers and won't be utilized at top level because phoenix already out range mutas and top level players already have the control they need to keep them alive. With that said, it won't make a big difference for protoss and complaining that it's there when you don't need it is stupid. At least you have the option of a mothership or the option of carrier even if they aren't always useful. I know as a zerg player I use everything blizzard gives me and thank them for it.
thats not actually true, even pro's don't use phoenix to counter muta, they use cannons and storms, if you watched the daily that day9 did about pvz muta hero makes 6 phoenix's and loses them in the first big engagement vs mutas, then proceeds to win anyway because he's awesome as long as noone is watching.
you're taking an example from one game.. Ok I'll give you an example from one game as well then. Genius in Code S this season did a phoenix opener and never lost them when his zerg opponent went for mutas. Was it a mistake that his phoenix were still alive? no, it was good control and awareness.
But if you're point is that 4 range phoenix isn't good enough, then why are others hating on the +2 even if it's an unreachable upgrade? at least it exists.
watch Code S, Ro16, Group D, Genius vs. Nestea G2, lawyered.
On February 22 2012 08:44 emc wrote: I'm unsure where +2 range hate is coming from. It's clearly going to be an optional thing for lower leaguers and won't be utilized at top level because phoenix already out range mutas and top level players already have the control they need to keep them alive. With that said, it won't make a big difference for protoss and complaining that it's there when you don't need it is stupid. At least you have the option of a mothership or the option of carrier even if they aren't always useful. I know as a zerg player I use everything blizzard gives me and thank them for it.
thats not actually true, even pro's don't use phoenix to counter muta, they use cannons and storms, if you watched the daily that day9 did about pvz muta hero makes 6 phoenix's and loses them in the first big engagement vs mutas, then proceeds to win anyway because he's awesome as long as noone is watching.
At face value I can see 2 uses for this upgrade.
1: You are a Genius and opening up with a stargate, and keep building phoenix the whole game. When the mutas come out, well, you've got a bunch of phoenix and the mutas are largely ineffective and unable to put pressure on anything that has a cannon because the phoenix turn up and ruin their fun. The phoenix can't fight them alone, but with any sort of support the mutas can't fight the phoenix. Now, here is the key point, you are thinking 'i want to push out soon and kill this zerg bastard' so you put down a fleet beacon and get this range upgrade. Crazy you say? But what do you have to fear? Losing a base race. The zerg can't face your army in a brawl, too much supply is sunk into those mutas, so when you push out you have say, 8 phoenix and the range upgrade. base trade ensues, except you are MURDERING those mutas. It's not even close, you just tear them to shreds.
2: You do whatever opening makes you happy that isn't a stargate, take a 3rd and then, omfg, mutas. Damn. You can turtle now, you have the resources to do whatever you want, but a 4th base is a pipe dream. Now picture this, you get 2 stargates, start getting phoenix. Artosis is in your mind calling you and idiot, this will never work. you will never get enough phoenix to deal with the quickly growing muta flock, you're just screwed. so you rush right into fleet beacon and range upgrade. Holy shit, phoenix are now MUCH stronger than mutas. like, with micro, infinity better. It cost you a lot, but suddenly you can push out with your ground army and take that 4th knowing that your phoenix will keep you secure unless the zerg does soemthing crazy like get 12 corrupter and 30 mutalisks.
The advantage here is that you can swap the supply cost of mass phoenix for the resource cost of the upgrade. 8 phoenix with range upgrade will kill 30 mutas if controlled decently.
On February 22 2012 08:44 emc wrote: I'm unsure where +2 range hate is coming from. It's clearly going to be an optional thing for lower leaguers and won't be utilized at top level because phoenix already out range mutas and top level players already have the control they need to keep them alive. With that said, it won't make a big difference for protoss and complaining that it's there when you don't need it is stupid. At least you have the option of a mothership or the option of carrier even if they aren't always useful. I know as a zerg player I use everything blizzard gives me and thank them for it.
thats not actually true, even pro's don't use phoenix to counter muta, they use cannons and storms, if you watched the daily that day9 did about pvz muta hero makes 6 phoenix's and loses them in the first big engagement vs mutas, then proceeds to win anyway because he's awesome as long as noone is watching.
you're taking an example from one game.. Ok I'll give you an example from one game as well then. Genius in Code S this season did a phoenix opener and never lost them when his zerg opponent went for mutas. Was it a mistake that his phoenix were still alive? no, it was good control and awareness.
But if you're point is that 4 range phoenix isn't good enough, then why are others hating on the +2 even if it's an unreachable upgrade? at least it exists.
watch Code S, Ro16, Group D, Genius vs. Nestea G2, lawyered.
im not, but most pro's also say that phoenixes are good against mutas in small number, not the 30+ that were being seen, for that they needed templar, now im not complaining about the upgrade, ill most likely be getting it in muta ling games, just saying that most pros don't consider phoenix to counter muta ling style and giving an exampl.
On February 22 2012 08:44 emc wrote: I'm unsure where +2 range hate is coming from. It's clearly going to be an optional thing for lower leaguers and won't be utilized at top level because phoenix already out range mutas and top level players already have the control they need to keep them alive. With that said, it won't make a big difference for protoss and complaining that it's there when you don't need it is stupid. At least you have the option of a mothership or the option of carrier even if they aren't always useful. I know as a zerg player I use everything blizzard gives me and thank them for it.
thats not actually true, even pro's don't use phoenix to counter muta, they use cannons and storms, if you watched the daily that day9 did about pvz muta hero makes 6 phoenix's and loses them in the first big engagement vs mutas, then proceeds to win anyway because he's awesome as long as noone is watching.
you're taking an example from one game.. Ok I'll give you an example from one game as well then. Genius in Code S this season did a phoenix opener and never lost them when his zerg opponent went for mutas. Was it a mistake that his phoenix were still alive? no, it was good control and awareness.
But if you're point is that 4 range phoenix isn't good enough, then why are others hating on the +2 even if it's an unreachable upgrade? at least it exists.
watch Code S, Ro16, Group D, Genius vs. Nestea G2, lawyered.
im not, but most pro's also say that phoenixes are good against mutas in small number, not the 30+ that were being seen, for that they needed templar, now im not complaining about the upgrade, ill most likely be getting it in muta ling games, just saying that most pros don't consider phoenix to counter muta ling style and giving an exampl.
and who goes muta against protoss and doesn't mass them? in that game, Genius opened stargate, had about 5 phoenix then made more once he spotted the spire. nestea went for a mass muta double spire build and got crushed by the early phoenixs, and genius never really lost a phoenix until the last engagement when it didn't matter anymore. Maybe hero just eff'd his engagement?
If a code S player thinks opening phoenix and sticks with them is a good idea then who am I to say otherwise? he fucking beat nestea 2-0 opening stargate both times...
most pros can't beat nestea, most pros can't even get out of Code A
On February 22 2012 08:44 emc wrote: I'm unsure where +2 range hate is coming from. It's clearly going to be an optional thing for lower leaguers and won't be utilized at top level because phoenix already out range mutas and top level players already have the control they need to keep them alive. With that said, it won't make a big difference for protoss and complaining that it's there when you don't need it is stupid. At least you have the option of a mothership or the option of carrier even if they aren't always useful. I know as a zerg player I use everything blizzard gives me and thank them for it.
thats not actually true, even pro's don't use phoenix to counter muta, they use cannons and storms, if you watched the daily that day9 did about pvz muta hero makes 6 phoenix's and loses them in the first big engagement vs mutas, then proceeds to win anyway because he's awesome as long as noone is watching.
you're taking an example from one game.. Ok I'll give you an example from one game as well then. Genius in Code S this season did a phoenix opener and never lost them when his zerg opponent went for mutas. Was it a mistake that his phoenix were still alive? no, it was good control and awareness.
But if you're point is that 4 range phoenix isn't good enough, then why are others hating on the +2 even if it's an unreachable upgrade? at least it exists.
watch Code S, Ro16, Group D, Genius vs. Nestea G2, lawyered.
im not, but most pro's also say that phoenixes are good against mutas in small number, not the 30+ that were being seen, for that they needed templar, now im not complaining about the upgrade, ill most likely be getting it in muta ling games, just saying that most pros don't consider phoenix to counter muta ling style and giving an exampl.
and who goes muta against protoss and doesn't mass them? in that game, Genius opened stargate, had about 5 phoenix then made more once he spotted the spire. nestea went for a mass muta double spire build and got crushed by the early phoenixs, and genius never really lost a phoenix until the last engagement when it didn't matter anymore. Maybe hero just eff'd his engagement.
If a code S player thinks opening phoenix and sticks with them is a good idea then who am I to say otherwise? he fucking beat nestea 2-0 opening stargate both times...
most pros can't beat nestea, most pros can't even get out of Code A
does this still not work even after they said it was fixed? as I just tried in a ladder game not to long ago... Looking for updates into this, besides everything is great lol.
On February 22 2012 08:44 emc wrote: I'm unsure where +2 range hate is coming from. It's clearly going to be an optional thing for lower leaguers and won't be utilized at top level because phoenix already out range mutas and top level players already have the control they need to keep them alive. With that said, it won't make a big difference for protoss and complaining that it's there when you don't need it is stupid. At least you have the option of a mothership or the option of carrier even if they aren't always useful. I know as a zerg player I use everything blizzard gives me and thank them for it.
thats not actually true, even pro's don't use phoenix to counter muta, they use cannons and storms, if you watched the daily that day9 did about pvz muta hero makes 6 phoenix's and loses them in the first big engagement vs mutas, then proceeds to win anyway because he's awesome as long as noone is watching.
you're taking an example from one game.. Ok I'll give you an example from one game as well then. Genius in Code S this season did a phoenix opener and never lost them when his zerg opponent went for mutas. Was it a mistake that his phoenix were still alive? no, it was good control and awareness.
But if you're point is that 4 range phoenix isn't good enough, then why are others hating on the +2 even if it's an unreachable upgrade? at least it exists.
watch Code S, Ro16, Group D, Genius vs. Nestea G2, lawyered.
im not, but most pro's also say that phoenixes are good against mutas in small number, not the 30+ that were being seen, for that they needed templar, now im not complaining about the upgrade, ill most likely be getting it in muta ling games, just saying that most pros don't consider phoenix to counter muta ling style and giving an exampl.
and who goes muta against protoss and doesn't mass them? in that game, Genius opened stargate, had about 5 phoenix then made more once he spotted the spire. nestea went for a mass muta double spire build and got crushed by the early phoenixs, and genius never really lost a phoenix until the last engagement when it didn't matter anymore. Maybe hero just eff'd his engagement?
If a code S player thinks opening phoenix and sticks with them is a good idea then who am I to say otherwise? he fucking beat nestea 2-0 opening stargate both times...
most pros can't beat nestea, most pros can't even get out of Code A
nestea 6 pooled and only killed 1 probe he was way behind in the beginning of that game and never got many mutas out, i think that there were as many phoenixes as there were mutas
On February 22 2012 08:44 emc wrote: I'm unsure where +2 range hate is coming from. It's clearly going to be an optional thing for lower leaguers and won't be utilized at top level because phoenix already out range mutas and top level players already have the control they need to keep them alive. With that said, it won't make a big difference for protoss and complaining that it's there when you don't need it is stupid. At least you have the option of a mothership or the option of carrier even if they aren't always useful. I know as a zerg player I use everything blizzard gives me and thank them for it.
thats not actually true, even pro's don't use phoenix to counter muta, they use cannons and storms, if you watched the daily that day9 did about pvz muta hero makes 6 phoenix's and loses them in the first big engagement vs mutas, then proceeds to win anyway because he's awesome as long as noone is watching.
you're taking an example from one game.. Ok I'll give you an example from one game as well then. Genius in Code S this season did a phoenix opener and never lost them when his zerg opponent went for mutas. Was it a mistake that his phoenix were still alive? no, it was good control and awareness.
But if you're point is that 4 range phoenix isn't good enough, then why are others hating on the +2 even if it's an unreachable upgrade? at least it exists.
watch Code S, Ro16, Group D, Genius vs. Nestea G2, lawyered.
im not, but most pro's also say that phoenixes are good against mutas in small number, not the 30+ that were being seen, for that they needed templar, now im not complaining about the upgrade, ill most likely be getting it in muta ling games, just saying that most pros don't consider phoenix to counter muta ling style and giving an exampl.
and who goes muta against protoss and doesn't mass them? in that game, Genius opened stargate, had about 5 phoenix then made more once he spotted the spire. nestea went for a mass muta double spire build and got crushed by the early phoenixs, and genius never really lost a phoenix until the last engagement when it didn't matter anymore. Maybe hero just eff'd his engagement?
If a code S player thinks opening phoenix and sticks with them is a good idea then who am I to say otherwise? he fucking beat nestea 2-0 opening stargate both times...
most pros can't beat nestea, most pros can't even get out of Code A
nestea 6 pooled and only killed 1 probe he was way behind in the beginning of that game and never got many mutas out, i think that there were as many phoenixes as there were mutas
6 pool is irrelevant in this case because they ended up normalizing and the game became pretty even once genius defended it. Yea it wasn't the most standard game but it showed that having phoenix out before mutas and then continuing to produce phoenix to counter muta isn't a bad choice. Nestea had more mutas at one point than genius had phoenix, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.
My point was that if a pro like Genius can utilize phoenix without +2 range against a lot of mutas and not losing very many, then obviously it's a legit strategy and shouldn't be shrugged off just because day9 did a daily about hero. Hero is good and all but if he was at the level genius is at currently then he'd be getting further in GSL. I'm done arguing with you.
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Because once you get it you hard-hard counter mutalisks so much to the point where they cannot even be on the field anymore.
Sorry that it's not super-easy accessible and you'll have to do what everyone has been doing the last few months by defending for a bit before you get this upgrade out finnaly.
Default Corsairs still hard counter Mutas more than Phoenix's with the upgrade.
Zerg still goes muta in PvZ.
The upgrade is ridiculous because you may as well just get 2 stargates and pump phoenixes for the same price, once you do that, the upgrade is useless anyway.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
Yeah but it wasn't random. Blizzard said what it's for. If it breaks game in another way it will be taken away.
I'm not gonna argue strategy with a pro but I play single player at the diamond lvl and have already used this phoenix upgrade. On my first attempt it was upgraded by the nine minute with 1 stargate and 3 gateways with my diamond lvl marco ability. I'm bet it could come out even quicker by people that are actually good at the game like you and this is even before mutas so I think it was useful.
On February 22 2012 08:44 emc wrote: I'm unsure where +2 range hate is coming from. It's clearly going to be an optional thing for lower leaguers and won't be utilized at top level because phoenix already out range mutas and top level players already have the control they need to keep them alive. With that said, it won't make a big difference for protoss and complaining that it's there when you don't need it is stupid. At least you have the option of a mothership or the option of carrier even if they aren't always useful. I know as a zerg player I use everything blizzard gives me and thank them for it.
thats not actually true, even pro's don't use phoenix to counter muta, they use cannons and storms, if you watched the daily that day9 did about pvz muta hero makes 6 phoenix's and loses them in the first big engagement vs mutas, then proceeds to win anyway because he's awesome as long as noone is watching.
you're taking an example from one game.. Ok I'll give you an example from one game as well then. Genius in Code S this season did a phoenix opener and never lost them when his zerg opponent went for mutas. Was it a mistake that his phoenix were still alive? no, it was good control and awareness.
But if you're point is that 4 range phoenix isn't good enough, then why are others hating on the +2 even if it's an unreachable upgrade? at least it exists.
watch Code S, Ro16, Group D, Genius vs. Nestea G2, lawyered.
im not, but most pro's also say that phoenixes are good against mutas in small number, not the 30+ that were being seen, for that they needed templar, now im not complaining about the upgrade, ill most likely be getting it in muta ling games, just saying that most pros don't consider phoenix to counter muta ling style and giving an exampl.
and who goes muta against protoss and doesn't mass them? in that game, Genius opened stargate, had about 5 phoenix then made more once he spotted the spire. nestea went for a mass muta double spire build and got crushed by the early phoenixs, and genius never really lost a phoenix until the last engagement when it didn't matter anymore. Maybe hero just eff'd his engagement?
If a code S player thinks opening phoenix and sticks with them is a good idea then who am I to say otherwise? he fucking beat nestea 2-0 opening stargate both times...
most pros can't beat nestea, most pros can't even get out of Code A
nestea 6 pooled and only killed 1 probe he was way behind in the beginning of that game and never got many mutas out, i think that there were as many phoenixes as there were mutas
6 pool is irrelevant in this case because they ended up normalizing and the game became pretty even once genius defended it. Yea it wasn't the most standard game but it showed that having phoenix out before mutas and then continuing to produce phoenix to counter muta isn't a bad choice. Nestea had more mutas at one point than genius had phoenix, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.
My point was that if a pro like Genius can utilize phoenix without +2 range against a lot of mutas and not losing very many, then obviously it's a legit strategy and shouldn't be shrugged off just because day9 did a daily about hero. Hero is good and all but if he was at the level genius is at currently then he'd be getting further in GSL. I'm done arguing with you.
I'm not sure that game is relevant due to the fact Nestea lost control of his mutas and just moved commanded them across the map and didnt even react when Genius' phoenix were attacking them - ordinarily phoenix take perfect micro to counter mutas if they are after you on attack command. This +2 requires not so perfect.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
Yeah but it wasn't random. Blizzard said what it's for. If it breaks game in another way it will be taken away.
I'm not gonna argue strategy with a pro but I play single player at the diamond lvl and have already used this phoenix upgrade. On my first attempt it was upgraded by the nine minute with 1 stargate and 3 gateways with my diamond lvl marco ability. I'm bet it could come out even quicker by people that are actually good at the game like you and this is even before mutas so I think it was useful.
Its the math that's the problem
So what if you get the upgrade, when you could have pumped out of 2 stargates and achieved the same if not better effect.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
Yeah but it wasn't random. Blizzard said what it's for. If it breaks game in another way it will be taken away.
I'm not gonna argue strategy with a pro but I play single player at the diamond lvl and have already used this phoenix upgrade. On my first attempt it was upgraded by the nine minute with 1 stargate and 3 gateways with my diamond lvl marco ability. I'm bet it could come out even quicker by people that are actually good at the game like you and this is even before mutas so I think it was useful.
Its the math that's the problem
So what if you get the upgrade, when you could have pumped out of 2 stargates and achieved the same if not better effect.
I think the upgrade is going to be useful in lategame games where you probably already have a mothership and the zerg switches out to mass muta. A few phoenixes with the upgrade can be microed much easier around the muta ball making the muta's less effective.
if you have 30+ mutalisks, it will take 5 phoenix forever to kill them....
protoss probably skipped templar and blink, so just fly over his nexus and kill it.... then fly to his other nexus and kill it.... meanwhile the phoenix are chipping away maybe killed 3-4 mutas.
it's like terran attacking with mass thor and trying to defend it with your imba new probe upgrade that gives them 10 range.
On February 22 2012 05:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote: LOL this is why you ptr... Interested to see if this is just something weird with you though
I will say that even if it is just a weird glitch for you, the fact that this upgrade is 150/150 and takes 90 SECONDS to research from the fleet beacon is kind of a joke and I don't see how it is supposed to help with some of the ridiculous muta timings out there
Because once you get it you hard-hard counter mutalisks so much to the point where they cannot even be on the field anymore.
Sorry that it's not super-easy accessible and you'll have to do what everyone has been doing the last few months by defending for a bit before you get this upgrade out finnaly.
Bring a couple currupters? Hydras and Fungel counter Phoenix too. Let's actually wait and see how it works over a period of a couple months before declaring on day 1 that you'll never see mutas again. One thing for sure is 40 muta DRG style won't be a insta loss for professional protoss anymore.
but isn't the point of mutas to fly around and harass? You can't bring hydras + fungal around to harass with the mutas. I see no point in making any more mutas when there are phoenix's on the field with the upgrades.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
Yeah but it wasn't random. Blizzard said what it's for. If it breaks game in another way it will be taken away.
I'm not gonna argue strategy with a pro but I play single player at the diamond lvl and have already used this phoenix upgrade. On my first attempt it was upgraded by the nine minute with 1 stargate and 3 gateways with my diamond lvl marco ability. I'm bet it could come out even quicker by people that are actually good at the game like you and this is even before mutas so I think it was useful.
On February 22 2012 19:18 shizna wrote: if you have 30+ mutalisks, it will take 5 phoenix forever to kill them....
protoss probably skipped templar and blink, so just fly over his nexus and kill it.... then fly to his other nexus and kill it.... meanwhile the phoenix are chipping away maybe killed 3-4 mutas.
it's like terran attacking with mass thor and trying to defend it with your imba new probe upgrade that gives them 10 range.
the question is then, why does zerg have 30+ mutas and P only have 5 phoenix =S
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
Yeah but it wasn't random. Blizzard said what it's for. If it breaks game in another way it will be taken away.
I'm not gonna argue strategy with a pro but I play single player at the diamond lvl and have already used this phoenix upgrade. On my first attempt it was upgraded by the nine minute with 1 stargate and 3 gateways with my diamond lvl marco ability. I'm bet it could come out even quicker by people that are actually good at the game like you and this is even before mutas so I think it was useful.
9 minute fleet beacon... what an epic opening... second only to 1-base carrier rush.
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
Yeah but it wasn't random. Blizzard said what it's for. If it breaks game in another way it will be taken away.
I'm not gonna argue strategy with a pro but I play single player at the diamond lvl and have already used this phoenix upgrade. On my first attempt it was upgraded by the nine minute with 1 stargate and 3 gateways with my diamond lvl marco ability. I'm bet it could come out even quicker by people that are actually good at the game like you and this is even before mutas so I think it was useful.
9 minute fleet beacon... what an epic opening... second only to 1-base carrier rush.
You miss the point obviously - squeezing in 300/200+150/150, especially on 1 base, is EZ for Protoss.
NOT. The main purpose are mass muta in mid/lategame situations, when Blink Stalker + Storm won´t cut it anymore, don´t kid yourself. And the MVPGenius example is hilarious. Maybe Genius knew Nestea´s Style and adapted a build to counter it? Versus any other zerg he could have lost pretty hard. 2 Base infestor for example. 2 Base nexus Hydra Ling. Just some examples. I am just saying that this build - as strong as it is vs an expected muta opening - has its flaws and is NOT the answer for the muta pvz problem.
i dont really get this, a race gets a situational upgrade and complains about it while the upgrade is made to directly counter a build they are struggling with and also opens up the road to the counter to broodlord infestor (mothership).
Just be happy that other races have to wory about more and quit whining please
On February 22 2012 06:13 Liquid`NonY wrote: does it make a difference if it's missing or not? it's useless. if some people can't get it, i dont think blizzard should even bother their programmers to fix it
There have been plenty of units and upgrades people thought were useless only to become a mainstay. BFH? Perhaps we should wait until some clever protoss shows us a whole new build around this before declaring it useless from day 1? On it's face it's just a easier way to deal with mass mutas since one can respond by not having (or even able) to build a ton of Phoenix but just one building and upgrade the few Phoenix you already have when it seems they are dedicated to muta.
no we shouldn't just add random fucking shit into the game so long as it doesn't break it hoping that someone smarter than blizzard employees finds a use for it. that is so fucking stupid
Yeah but it wasn't random. Blizzard said what it's for. If it breaks game in another way it will be taken away.
I'm not gonna argue strategy with a pro but I play single player at the diamond lvl and have already used this phoenix upgrade. On my first attempt it was upgraded by the nine minute with 1 stargate and 3 gateways with my diamond lvl marco ability. I'm bet it could come out even quicker by people that are actually good at the game like you and this is even before mutas so I think it was useful.
9 minute fleet beacon... what an epic opening... second only to 1-base carrier rush.
You miss the point obviously - squeezing in 300/200+150/150, especially on 1 base, is EZ for Protoss.
NOT. The main purpose are mass muta in mid/lategame situations, when Blink Stalker + Storm won´t cut it anymore, don´t kid yourself. And the MVPGenius example is hilarious. Maybe Genius knew Nestea´s Style and adapted a build to counter it? Versus any other zerg he could have lost pretty hard. 2 Base infestor for example. 2 Base nexus Hydra Ling. Just some examples. I am just saying that this build - as strong as it is vs an expected muta opening - has its flaws and is NOT the answer for the muta pvz problem.
i hope there's room in your "zerg is stupid" club... better pull up another couple of chairs etc because pretty much every terran will be signing up in the coming weeks. :D
LOL that was not what I intended :D - but be my guest x-D - at least some here have a sense of humour, it´s just the constant whining from every race once something imba gets figured out. Additionally blaming blizzard for breaking the game once they try to address it. Their solution may not be perfect, but they try to fix it, and if the patch will be too much they are going to revert it, that´s how it works, can´t imagine that was any different in BW.
And to actually contribute to the thread in a constructive way, I played some games today and patch works like a charm for me(EU).
yeah you open phoenix and if they go muta anyway you can add fleet beacon (what you will do anyway) and get the upgrade. I mean the muta ball gets a problem at around the 13ish 15ish minute mark with phoenix, if you don't kill a few. And i guess the people complaining about the upgrade being to high in the tech, want the deny unit ability this upgrade has. A terran wouldn't be able to defend phoenix from killing air units with just 20 marines. Zerg ovis would have a problem as well. I really like this upgrade the new range takes a bit of getting used to, especially since you have to play with both ranges for some time in a game, but i really like the added lategame survivability. (and the magic box ability allowing you to kill infestors as the fungal only hits 1 phoenix if you do it right, while still around 4 phoenix can attack a lifted unit)
You do understand that it doesnt only stop mutas, but also means that pheonixes are the same range as corrupters. Im a little worried that its going to start borking up brudlurds and give zerg no viable lategame :S
On February 22 2012 21:11 OptimusYale wrote: You do understand that it doesnt only stop mutas, but also means that pheonixes are the same range as corrupters. Im a little worried that its going to start borking up brudlurds and give zerg no viable lategame :S
The answer is of course to increase the range of corruptors.
Which should be done anyway so they can snipe colossus without dying to stalkers - like vikings can.
On February 22 2012 21:11 OptimusYale wrote: You do understand that it doesnt only stop mutas, but also means that pheonixes are the same range as corrupters. Im a little worried that its going to start borking up brudlurds and give zerg no viable lategame :S
The answer is of course to increase the range of corruptors.
Which should be done anyway so they can snipe colossus without dying to stalkers - like vikings can.
It's a never ending cycle. Soon we'll be shooting at each other from across the screen.
I know this is a bit off topic but did everyone notice that EPM and APM are showing exactly the opposite of what they are supposed to show? Im on EU now and i wonder if this is the case on other servers too
On February 22 2012 21:11 OptimusYale wrote: You do understand that it doesnt only stop mutas, but also means that pheonixes are the same range as corrupters. Im a little worried that its going to start borking up brudlurds and give zerg no viable lategame :S
The answer is of course to increase the range of corruptors.
Which should be done anyway so they can snipe colossus without dying to stalkers - like vikings can.
It's a never ending cycle. Soon we'll be shooting at each other from across the screen.
rofl yeah... blizz should add progressive upgrades for range like attack and armour.
once you complete +2 range it unlocks range #2 which gives another +2 range etc :D
On February 22 2012 21:11 OptimusYale wrote: You do understand that it doesnt only stop mutas, but also means that pheonixes are the same range as corrupters. Im a little worried that its going to start borking up brudlurds and give zerg no viable lategame :S
The answer is of course to increase the range of corruptors.
Which should be done anyway so they can snipe colossus without dying to stalkers - like vikings can.
It's a never ending cycle. Soon we'll be shooting at each other from across the screen.
That made me laugh. Just imagine two vikings in the bottom right and upper left corner shooting each other while being repaired. Best stalemate ever :D
The balance changes which have been planned for patch 1.4.3 are currently in the process of being implemented. We apologize for any delays, and for any confusion that you might have experienced in the meantime.
I'll update this thread further when the updates are completed.
Apparently blizzard has the power to activate/deactivate balance changed without patching :o
Before laddering i went into unit tester to play with the new phoenix upgrade (Anion pulse Crystals, 150/150 - 90 second research time)
Then when i Laddered, the opportunity arose to use the new upgrade, but it was not present at the fleet beacon...
what gives?
my friends told me the ghost changes and other stuff is currently active.
I played a bunch of tvz's yesterday, 6/9 of them had the original ghost snipe at 45 base damage. The other 3 had the nerfed snipe.
The balance changes which have been planned for patch 1.4.3 are currently in the process of being implemented. We apologize for any delays, and for any confusion that you might have experienced in the meantime.
I'll update this thread further when the updates are completed.
Apparently blizzard has the power to activate/deactivate balance changed without patching :o
Before laddering i went into unit tester to play with the new phoenix upgrade (Anion pulse Crystals, 150/150 - 90 second research time)
Then when i Laddered, the opportunity arose to use the new upgrade, but it was not present at the fleet beacon...
what gives?
my friends told me the ghost changes and other stuff is currently active.
I played a bunch of tvz's yesterday, 6/9 of them had the original ghost snipe at 45 base damage. The other 3 had the nerfed snipe.
Note: I posted this video in the patch thread, but it seemed relevant here.
Found this nice little sandbox demonstration video fhe Phoenix upgrade in action vs. Mutas.
Long story short: the difference in unmicroed upgraded phoenixes vs microed upgraded phoenixes is noticable but fairly small. But when you actually attempt to micro them both, the difference is huge--the normal Phoenixes still die quite quickly even with active micro, but the upgraded Phoenixes can kite continuously while taking next to no damage, and since they aren't taking losses they just mow through the muta ball at a really high rate (skip to 2:45 in the video to see what happens with even basic micro when you use upgrades phoenixes vs mutas).
When combined with the ability to magic box vs. fungals, and Zerg actually has reason to be afraid of Phoenixes now.
The balance changes which have been planned for patch 1.4.3 are currently in the process of being implemented. We apologize for any delays, and for any confusion that you might have experienced in the meantime.
I'll update this thread further when the updates are completed.
Apparently blizzard has the power to activate/deactivate balance changed without patching :o
Before laddering i went into unit tester to play with the new phoenix upgrade (Anion pulse Crystals, 150/150 - 90 second research time)
Then when i Laddered, the opportunity arose to use the new upgrade, but it was not present at the fleet beacon...
what gives?
my friends told me the ghost changes and other stuff is currently active.
I played a bunch of tvz's yesterday, 6/9 of them had the original ghost snipe at 45 base damage. The other 3 had the nerfed snipe.