|
Eclypsia which everyone in the Starcraft community should know about at this point, having recently signed players such as Scarlett, desRow and Artist, the team has shot out of nowhere to be quite the presence in the E-sports world, not only for Starcraft 2, but also for DotA 2.
However, just hours ago, this interview was published on one of the major DotA-community sites, JoinDotA.com. In said interview, manager of a danish DotA-squad "MystresS" formerly sponsored by Quantic Gaming, now accuses Eclypsia for straight up lying to them, about salaries, equipment etc.
Here's an excerpt:
MystresS: Eclypsia works with Dota2-Europe.com and one of their staff approached me last Friday [April 27th] and proposed a salary of € 7500 per month for the whole team, 100% of the earnings for 10 hours of streaming per player, per week. Of course I contacted the players right away and told them about it, of course we were all very exited about since that would mean more time to concentrate on practising.
MystresS: Eclypsia then started to change their original offer... They wanted the players to generate 5000 viewers on the stream, forbid the players the use of IRC, and every time I tried to defend my players, explaining that it was impossible for them to have this many viewers in such a short time, I was threatened not to get paid... And this went on and on for three days.
MystresS: They then asked of me to find sponsors for Eclypsia, big sponsors such as Razer or SteelSeries... which is absolutely not my job. My role is to make sure the players can concentrate on playing while I take care of organising them at LAN events, tournaments etc.
Read the full interview here.
Edit #1: MystresS has later replied in one of the comments to the article, that even though Starcraft and League of Legends players haven't complained about this publicly, they haven't seen any money yet either. - Again, unconfirmed and obviously biased source, no idea if she has any basis for speaking on behalf of those players.
Edit #2: Eclypsia has released this statement, after the interview with MystresS was published. + Show Spoiler +Further to the recent declarations from Mystress and her teammates about joining Eclypsia, we believe it is of a public interest to respond to what we see as partial, and grossly misleading. Eclypsia is currently launching a Dota2 team. Several existing teams as well as players have been contacted to this effect. Eclypsia conditions to recruiting a team included capacities to stream and generate a specified audience. A verbal agreement was found with Mystress ‘ Danish team to be transferred to Eclypsia on the base of the understanding and the acceptation of these conditions. Unfortunately , the team was clearly unable to meet the conditions which therefore ended the agreement and the relationship. We regret that many are taking their commitments too lighlty resulting in wasting time and energy for everybody involved Eclypsia commits very seriously to its projects and strive to provide the utmost professionalism in every situation we deal with in order to deliver the best to the gamers. We realize the gaming industry needs to undergo a major turn towards more professionalism and we believe we have a valuable contribution to make to this effect. http://www.eclypsia.com/en/news-259.html
E-sports veterans will know this, because they have learned this lesson the hard way; that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Now, this is obviously just one squad manager going out with this, but if this is a representation of how players are treated on Eclypsia, it could very well affect the Starcraft 2 players on their roster as well.
|
That rather belongs to the dota section.
|
just read it on joinDOTA I honestly can´t believe that eclypsia did that.
If it is true then, to put it in MistresS´s words, Eclypsia has no idea at all about how eSports works.
|
Is this just another PR marketing bullshit like the April Fool's joke? Seriously, what is up with this team.
|
So afraid for scarlett joining this team - I don't trust them a single bit
|
I hate to sound like a fanboy but the scene really doesn't need more of this kind of crap, wish that this team would get their act together.
|
On May 04 2012 02:20 SolHeiM wrote: Is this just another PR marketing bullshit like the April Fool's joke? Seriously, what is up with this team. I don´t know what would hurt their reputation more...both possibilities are just terrible.
|
Eclypsia popped out of nowhere and ate up a bunch of players. It's incredibly suspicious.
|
On May 04 2012 02:20 SolHeiM wrote: Is this just another PR marketing bullshit like the April Fool's joke? Seriously, what is up with this team.
No it's not PR this time, it's a team that's had terrible luck getting screwed over
|
It's already posted in the Dota section and being discussed there, don't see this as very relevant to the SC2 forum as long as there are no confirming posts from the SC2 players. At least DesRow didn't seem to have any problems with them so far (didn't sound like that at least on his twitter/facebook).
|
I sure hope Scarlett didn't join the wrong team :/
|
|
The truth of the matter is that Eclypsia is owned by a BUISNESS MAN, and the people who surround the core ownership and people who they've aquired from differant teams to act as management. (Eg. MGK) The owner has only just started playing starcraft (as it is his assosiation as owner of Eclypsia) and he is investing a great deal in the team personally and hopes to make it an eventual buisness venture.
This is all from the mouths of people assosiated with Eclypsia and also from people who Eclypsia have expressed interest in aquiring, as such I cannot confirm it's validity so everything I've put is up to scrutiny.
|
Hardly surprised. They came out of nowhere, set up camp, picked up some low-key players and had two PR disasters and don't really know how to approach the community.
|
I find it hard to believe they tricked Scarlett. She admitted that she got objectively better offers from other teams. If Eclypsia was in the business of lying then why didn't they just make a bigger fake offer than the other teams?
Also, is the Eclypsia DotA team/managers/staff even the same as the Starcraft 2 team/managers/staff?
|
On May 04 2012 02:25 Odal wrote: Eclypsia popped out of nowhere and ate up a bunch of players. It's incredibly suspicious. it is... PACMAN on a more serious note, i hope this only affects the DOTA section of Eclypsia, not their SC2 division. Still, i hate them for what they did with aprils fools. They just used a bad joke to destroy the trust and reputation of players on the topic of getting screwed by a team. So i won't be surprised if they turn out to be a black sheep
|
On May 04 2012 02:29 FreudianTrip wrote: ... April Fools! LOL
I think what we're seeing here are the growing pains of an inexperienced organisation, who still need to learn to manage their expectations. I'm not ready to vilify Eclypsia just yet, although I'm not a fan of their choice in April Fool's jokes. Hopefully they learn from this situation and begin to develop realistic expectations for their players and improve their contract process.
|
It's like april fools all over again
|
On May 04 2012 02:28 Deeno wrote: I sure hope Scarlett didn't join the wrong team :/
As long as she's got the deal in writing, she should be okay. Of course, in her place I wouldn't start fulfilling my end of any deals with Eclypsia before signing the contract.
|
Assuming their management does both business and PR rather than specifically hiring PR people, not surprising at all. The team sounds like a disaster.
|
I dont know... i dont like them in the first place for just signing away a bunch of players, hell they even tried to get navis dota team, which is the best in the world... maybe they will sometime soon get everything together and be strong team, because the team always needs strong teams, but atm they look like a joke. .also for people sayong eclypsia is ok, because all these players like scarlett and arrist joined them, honestly, eclypsia could just lie to them and promise them big salaries, hell i think most players would get tricked, because there are very very few teams that are able to pay their players average salaries. Money is a rare thing in most teams.
|
Karma.....all I can say....karma.
|
I hope it works out for their players. It is sad how common this is in eSports :|
|
[B]On May 04 2012 02:17 ELA wrote: if something sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't.
if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is (too good to be true).
|
On May 04 2012 02:44 GrimReefer wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On May 04 2012 02:17 ELA wrote: if something sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't.
if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is (too good to be true). yessum, prolly should fix that
|
On May 04 2012 02:42 KeyHunt wrote: Karma.....all I can say....karma.
Yea, it's pretty ironic. Not all that surprised to be honest. Nothing against Eclypsia, just it seems like these stories keep popping up. These smaller teams need to do more planning. You don't see teams like EG, Liquid, Mouz, just to name a few professional teams, ever having these issues. I'm sure it's because they put the time into planning things before putting them into action. It's part of being a successful business/entity.
|
This mystress guy sounds like an absolute moron. It looks like the team had ongoing negotiations with the contracts. That's called the real world.
|
On May 04 2012 02:44 GrimReefer wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On May 04 2012 02:17 ELA wrote: if something sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't.
if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is (too good to be true).
Fixed ^^ - It got out a little fast I guess
|
On May 04 2012 02:46 ssg wrote: This mystress guy sounds like an absolute moron. It looks like the team had ongoing negotiations with the contracts. That's called the real world. She's a girl, female. They were told/promised one thing.... the contracts were never sent out, and then they were told other things that were not originally agreed upon.
|
On May 04 2012 02:41 Sein wrote: Assuming their management does both business and PR rather than specifically hiring PR people, not surprising at all. The team sounds like a disaster.
I'm going to assume that their management has no experience at all doing either business administration or any form of PR. They might have a businessman (citation needed) backing their team financially, but unless that businessman won hundreds of millions on the lottery and has no clue on how to actually handle a business, I don't think he does anything but cut a check.
|
this just proves again that you have to be extremely cautious when dealing with not so known teams that make very good offers out of the blue...
|
On May 04 2012 02:47 Utinni wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:46 ssg wrote: This mystress guy sounds like an absolute moron. It looks like the team had ongoing negotiations with the contracts. That's called the real world. She's a girl, female. They were told/promised one thing.... the contracts were never sent out, and then they were told other things that were not originally agreed upon. Not a single quoted word mentions "promise". The word "propose" was used.
|
If this is true, then this is ruining esports for sure :/
|
On May 04 2012 02:42 KeyHunt wrote: Karma.....all I can say....karma.
Karma only gets back to you in the next life, so it will be a long time before eclypsia feels the pain. I hope everything turns out alright.
|
United Kingdom10823 Posts
On May 04 2012 02:49 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:47 Utinni wrote:On May 04 2012 02:46 ssg wrote: This mystress guy sounds like an absolute moron. It looks like the team had ongoing negotiations with the contracts. That's called the real world. She's a girl, female. They were told/promised one thing.... the contracts were never sent out, and then they were told other things that were not originally agreed upon. Not a single quoted word mentions "promise". The word "propose" was used.
Yes it does. The answer of the second question clearly says that they were promised contracts
I'd quite like to hear what Quantic have to say about the situation. Its obvious that there would be a transfer fee for contracts, so what happened according to them?
|
can't tell you how true it is when the op says "if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is."
|
|
oh god here we go again. even im getting sick of it now D:
|
http://www.eclypsia.com/en/news-259.html
Further to the recent declarations from Mystress and her teammates about joining Eclypsia, we believe it is of a public interest to respond to what we see as partial, and grossly misleading.
Eclypsia is currently launching a Dota2 team.
Several existing teams as well as players have been contacted to this effect.
Eclypsia conditions to recruiting a team included capacities to stream and generate a specified audience. A verbal agreement was found with Mystress ‘ Danish team to be transferred to Eclypsia on the base of the understanding and the acceptation of these conditions.
Unfortunately , the team was clearly unable to meet the conditions which therefore ended the agreement and the relationship.
We regret that many are taking their commitments too lighlty resulting in wasting time and energy for everybody involved
Eclypsia commits very seriously to its projects and strive to provide the utmost professionalism in every situation we deal with in order to deliver the best to the gamers. We realize the gaming industry needs to undergo a major turn towards more professionalism and we believe we have a valuable contribution to make to this effect.
Eclypsia
Devotion to your emotion
|
On May 04 2012 02:46 ssg wrote: This mystress guy sounds like an absolute moron. It looks like the team had ongoing negotiations with the contracts. That's called the real world. No, that calling renegociating an offer that has already been accepted. You're an idiot. No need to thanks me for showing you the real world where people aren't nice when you throw stupidity.
|
On May 04 2012 02:51 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:49 S_SienZ wrote:On May 04 2012 02:47 Utinni wrote:On May 04 2012 02:46 ssg wrote: This mystress guy sounds like an absolute moron. It looks like the team had ongoing negotiations with the contracts. That's called the real world. She's a girl, female. They were told/promised one thing.... the contracts were never sent out, and then they were told other things that were not originally agreed upon. Not a single quoted word mentions "promise". The word "propose" was used. Yes it does. The answer of the second question clearly says that they were promised contracts I'd quite like to hear what Quantic have to say about the situation. Its obvious that there would be a transfer fee for contracts, so what happened according to them? Promised contracts in a few weeks. What morons would agree to that with details changing constantly?
|
On May 04 2012 02:51 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:49 S_SienZ wrote:On May 04 2012 02:47 Utinni wrote:On May 04 2012 02:46 ssg wrote: This mystress guy sounds like an absolute moron. It looks like the team had ongoing negotiations with the contracts. That's called the real world. She's a girl, female. They were told/promised one thing.... the contracts were never sent out, and then they were told other things that were not originally agreed upon. Not a single quoted word mentions "promise". The word "propose" was used. Yes it does. The answer of the second question clearly says that they were promised contracts I'd quite like to hear what Quantic have to say about the situation. Its obvious that there would be a transfer fee for contracts, so what happened according to them?
I believe the interview says that the players paid it off themselves because Eclypsia refused to.
|
contracts and money first.
|
So was there a signed contract about the 7500€ without the 5000 viewer condition etc?
If not, the manager of Mystress has no right to complain imho. If there is no contract then Eclypsia can do what they want with their own money.
I dont get how you can make a deal about so much money etc without contract. Pretty childish to complain now.
95% fault of Mystress if there was no contract.
However IF there was a contract, then Mystress should simple threaten Eclypsia to fulfill it or he will sue them. Again in this case its the wrong way to complain about it. Just take the according actions.
so called "business men" in esports these days should grow up and make proper contracts instead of making handshake-deals and complain about it later on internet forums.
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
no contract, no starcraft2, get out of here
|
On May 04 2012 02:55 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:46 ssg wrote: This mystress guy sounds like an absolute moron. It looks like the team had ongoing negotiations with the contracts. That's called the real world. No, that calling renegociating an offer that has already been accepted. You're an idiot. No need to thanks me for showing you the real world where people aren't nice when you throw stupidity.
if they havent signed anything theres no contract. if they were still talking about terms nothing had been agreed. just because he makes a forum post claiming things were 'agreed' means fuck all. either they had signed a contract or they hadnt. if they can produce a copy of said contract then ill believe them but untill then its just hearsay.
|
On May 04 2012 02:58 MasterReY wrote: So was there a signed contract about the 7500€ without the 5000 viewer condition etc?
If not, the manager of Mystress has no right to complain imho. If there is no contract then Eclypsia can do what they want with their own money.
I dont get how you can make a deal about so much money etc without contract. Pretty childish to complain now.
95% fault of Mystress if there was no contract.
However IF there was a contract, then Mystress should simple threaten Eclypsia to fulfill it or he will sue them. Again in this case its the wrong way to complain about it. Just take the according actions.
so called "business men" in esports these days should grow up and make proper contracts instead of making handshake-deals and complain about it later on internet forums.
There is a thing called verbal contracts, and at least in the US (don't know about EU) they are legally binding.....
|
United States832 Posts
Yeah, I was waiting for this. One of the Eclypsia players (desrow?) already made a post about how they had lied to him and he had never been paid. When Eclypsia signed Scarlett I raised an eyebrow. A brand new team was out-bidding other teams for this new star player? I had already read the other post condemning Eclypsia. It takes a lot to build a team from scratch, and you have to have good players before you get good sponsors. I assume Eclypsia was operating on this principal thinking they could get enough money from signing good players to actually pay them...
|
On May 04 2012 02:58 MasterReY wrote: So was there a signed contract about the 7500€ without the 5000 viewer condition etc?
If not, the manager of Mystress has no right to complain imho. If there is no contract then Eclypsia can do what they want with their own money.
I dont get how you can make a deal about so much money etc without contract. Pretty childish to complain now.
95% fault of Mystress if there was no contract.
However IF there was a contract, then Mystress should simple threaten Eclypsia to fulfill it or he will sue them. Again in this case its the wrong way to complain about it. Just take the according actions.
so called "business men" in esports these days should grow up and make proper contracts instead of making handshake-deals and complain about it later on internet forums. While they probably won't win a contract claim. It's possible they could bring an estoppel claim.
Especially if they were forced to pay settlements to Quantic and are now sponsorless because of it. That will most likely constitute detrimental reliance.
|
In the last like 3 months this team has jumped ship from about 4 different sponsors.
Just saying.
|
On May 04 2012 03:01 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:58 MasterReY wrote: So was there a signed contract about the 7500€ without the 5000 viewer condition etc?
If not, the manager of Mystress has no right to complain imho. If there is no contract then Eclypsia can do what they want with their own money.
I dont get how you can make a deal about so much money etc without contract. Pretty childish to complain now.
95% fault of Mystress if there was no contract.
However IF there was a contract, then Mystress should simple threaten Eclypsia to fulfill it or he will sue them. Again in this case its the wrong way to complain about it. Just take the according actions.
so called "business men" in esports these days should grow up and make proper contracts instead of making handshake-deals and complain about it later on internet forums. There is a thing called verbal contracts, and at least in the US (don't know about EU) they are legally binding..... Ish, and how binding they are depend on how straightforward the terms are.
|
On May 04 2012 03:02 theBOOCH wrote: Yeah, I was waiting for this. One of the Eclypsia players (desrow?) already made a post about how they had lied to him and he had never been paid. When Eclypsia signed Scarlett I raised an eyebrow. A brand new team was out-bidding other teams for this new star player? I had already read the other post condemning Eclypsia. It takes a lot to build a team from scratch, and you have to have good players before you get good sponsors. I assume Eclypsia was operating on this principal thinking they could get enough money from signing good players to actually pay them...
That part (the posts about Eclypsia not paying their players) was an April Fools joke. Not one that many people appreciated, but both the team and the players did announce later on that it was a jest in good spirit.
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
On May 04 2012 03:01 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:58 MasterReY wrote: So was there a signed contract about the 7500€ without the 5000 viewer condition etc?
If not, the manager of Mystress has no right to complain imho. If there is no contract then Eclypsia can do what they want with their own money.
I dont get how you can make a deal about so much money etc without contract. Pretty childish to complain now.
95% fault of Mystress if there was no contract.
However IF there was a contract, then Mystress should simple threaten Eclypsia to fulfill it or he will sue them. Again in this case its the wrong way to complain about it. Just take the according actions.
so called "business men" in esports these days should grow up and make proper contracts instead of making handshake-deals and complain about it later on internet forums. There is a thing called verbal contracts, and at least in the US (don't know about EU) they are legally binding.....
wrong context, look up what an oral contract is first..
don't just say whatever things you've heard of
|
On May 04 2012 03:03 Kaal wrote: In the last like 3 months this team has jumped ship from about 4 different sponsors.
Just saying.
What does that have to do with Eclypsia's integrity?
|
United States11933 Posts
|
On May 04 2012 03:01 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 02:58 MasterReY wrote: So was there a signed contract about the 7500€ without the 5000 viewer condition etc?
If not, the manager of Mystress has no right to complain imho. If there is no contract then Eclypsia can do what they want with their own money.
I dont get how you can make a deal about so much money etc without contract. Pretty childish to complain now.
95% fault of Mystress if there was no contract.
However IF there was a contract, then Mystress should simple threaten Eclypsia to fulfill it or he will sue them. Again in this case its the wrong way to complain about it. Just take the according actions.
so called "business men" in esports these days should grow up and make proper contracts instead of making handshake-deals and complain about it later on internet forums. There is a thing called verbal contracts, and at least in the US (don't know about EU) they are legally binding..... This is true but they likely won't hold up due to the amount of stipulations discussed
|
Since the first topic about Eclypsia I read I've always had 2nd thoughts about the team.
An organization out of nowhere signing really good players (and a few exceptions) that could sign with a lot of teams normally has different interests then the longstanding teams.
Will see how this develops but it might not end well.
|
United States832 Posts
That part (the posts about Eclypsia not paying their players) was an April Fools joke. Not one that many people appreciated, but both the team and the players did announce later on that it was a jest in good spirit. Yeah, I just figured that out... How ironic that they're now being accused of doing exactly the same thing X( Maybe it was a real thing, but Eclypsia used April 1 as an excuse to negotiate with the players and push the whole thing under the rug D8 Maybe not, but either way, it was a really dumb April Fool's joke...
|
I hope scarlett is okay
|
This makes me worried for the SC2 players that signed with Eclypsia :/
|
On May 04 2012 02:41 Sein wrote: Assuming their management does both business and PR rather than specifically hiring PR people, not surprising at all. The team sounds like a disaster.
That is pretty much what I thought as well upon reading this. However, it's not only their fault. Someone is advising them, and that person is not doing their job properly.
|
On May 04 2012 03:03 Kaal wrote: In the last like 3 months this team has jumped ship from about 4 different sponsors.
Just saying.
No they have not. They left SK on mutual agrement after their contract ended. They pretty much wanted to go to a LAN in kiev and SK didn't want to use money to send them. SK didn't want to invest in dota2 so why have a dota team?
Then they signed with quantic and yes you can say they jumped ship to eC and now "left" eC. But who wouldn't leave eC if what is right in this interview is right?
Only thing they did that was stupid, was to leave quantic on false hopes. I just hope they have learned their lesson now...
|
On May 04 2012 03:05 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:01 Diamond wrote:On May 04 2012 02:58 MasterReY wrote: So was there a signed contract about the 7500€ without the 5000 viewer condition etc?
If not, the manager of Mystress has no right to complain imho. If there is no contract then Eclypsia can do what they want with their own money.
I dont get how you can make a deal about so much money etc without contract. Pretty childish to complain now.
95% fault of Mystress if there was no contract.
However IF there was a contract, then Mystress should simple threaten Eclypsia to fulfill it or he will sue them. Again in this case its the wrong way to complain about it. Just take the according actions.
so called "business men" in esports these days should grow up and make proper contracts instead of making handshake-deals and complain about it later on internet forums. There is a thing called verbal contracts, and at least in the US (don't know about EU) they are legally binding..... Ish, and how binding they are depend on how straightforward the terms are.
Depends on the legal system I think in Sweden there is no difference between verbal and written contracts (assuming written form is not required by law) Don´t know about US but seem to remember there being a difference.
|
On May 04 2012 02:54 StrawA wrote:http://www.eclypsia.com/en/news-259.htmlShow nested quote +Further to the recent declarations from Mystress and her teammates about joining Eclypsia, we believe it is of a public interest to respond to what we see as partial, and grossly misleading.
Eclypsia is currently launching a Dota2 team.
Several existing teams as well as players have been contacted to this effect.
Eclypsia conditions to recruiting a team included capacities to stream and generate a specified audience. A verbal agreement was found with Mystress ‘ Danish team to be transferred to Eclypsia on the base of the understanding and the acceptation of these conditions.
Unfortunately , the team was clearly unable to meet the conditions which therefore ended the agreement and the relationship.
We regret that many are taking their commitments too lighlty resulting in wasting time and energy for everybody involved
Eclypsia commits very seriously to its projects and strive to provide the utmost professionalism in every situation we deal with in order to deliver the best to the gamers. We realize the gaming industry needs to undergo a major turn towards more professionalism and we believe we have a valuable contribution to make to this effect.
Eclypsia
Devotion to your emotion
So Eclypsia is saying the established organizations within the gaming industry need to be more professional, more like Eclypsia?
The April Fools joke and that according to Eclypsia everyone else is at fault here doesn't speak of professionalism really.
|
who is this Eclypsia
User was warned for this post
|
Eclypsia commits very seriously to its projects and strive to provide the utmost professionalism in every situation we deal with in order to deliver the best to the gamers. We realize the gaming industry needs to undergo a major turn towards more professionalism and we believe we have a valuable contribution to make to this effect.
Yes, because that April Fools troll was so professional. Please, you can't have it both ways, hosting 'meme' contests and trolling about not paying your players, and then turn around and whine about the lack of professionalism.
|
United States832 Posts
Since the first topic about Eclypsia I read I've always had 2nd thoughts about the team.
An organization out of nowhere signing really good players (and a few exceptions) that could sign with a lot of teams normally has different interests then the longstanding teams. Same here, something seemed weird even before the April fools thing. As far as I can tell, they're not like Sixjax or FXO who had large financial backers with money from the get go. Both teams' strategy was just to pick up random decent players to get publicity and then replace them with better and better players as it became convenient (which worked for FXO, but obviously not for Sixjax). It seems like Eclypsia is maybe doing the same thing, but without the money to back up their acquisitions.
|
United States11933 Posts
bumping this because it's so much worse then 95% of the shit the community gets riled up about but there seems to be little to no reaction.
this is worse then destiny's ladder rage, or eclypsia's own April fools gaffe.
|
SoCal8890 Posts
hmmm.. it sounds like theres a lot of "he said-she said" going on here. im not sure how to interpret it because obviously it should not be happening, but who knows who is right when you have conflicting stories from both parties.
if you want to see how they treat their players, ask their players. not someone who was looking to be recruited. often times, people hear only what they want to hear.
/neutralargument
|
I really don't know what to think about eclypsia at this moment in time..... there entire PR strategy is terrible it would seem :/
|
|
On May 04 2012 03:16 crms wrote:bumping this because it's so much worse then 95% of the shit the community gets riled up about but there seems to be little to no reaction. this is worse then destiny's ladder rage, or eclypsia's own April fools gaffe.
Oh my god. I hadn't seen this before. That's disgraceful from a professional team.
|
|
On May 04 2012 03:15 Tigerlily wrote: who is this Eclypsia
An up-and-coming team which was launched 1st april with a horrible April fools joke. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325188) Their players include Welmu, Desrow, Scarlett, SloG and more.
They also did a "Eclypsia meme contest" which the community hated. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330889)
And now this when decided to branch out and pick up a DotA 2 team and it went quite horrible to say the least.
Eclypsia still feels like a shady team. Just hope they're legit with some mistakes, because I like their players
(To the people saying Eclypsia outbidded other topteams for Scarlett is wrong. Scarlett herself stated that Eclypsia's offer was worse but she felt like the teamspirit was the best in it.)
|
lol some danish guy gets butt hurt and now everyone says Eclypsia is bad..
you guys are ruinning esports ;<
|
On May 04 2012 02:46 SupLilSon wrote:Yea, it's pretty ironic. Not all that surprised to be honest. Nothing against Eclypsia, just it seems like these stories keep popping up. These smaller teams need to do more planning. You don't see teams like EG, Liquid, Mouz, just to name a few professional teams, ever having these issues. I'm sure it's because they put the time into planning things before putting them into action. It's part of being a successful business/entity.
Especially EG. If there is 1 team that knows how to market themselves and be professional it is EG.
|
Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke.
|
Okay, all the mudslinging that has been going on are just rumors. Until we see some form of evidence (contracts, transcripts etc), we don't know who is in the wrong.
Regardless of what actually happened, Eclypsia is the biggest loser here. After that April Fool's gaffe and the failed meme contest, this third strike is delivering a knockout blow to their reputation.
Seriously people should learn PR. A somewhat related example: the first time he heard about team LG was about a maphacker...
Edit:
On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke. Jokes aren't simply jokes. Jokes have to be in good taste and people should be easily able to see the punchline. Some examples of April Fool's jokes on TL: Bomber going to the military. It generated a lot of discussion, but it wasn't malicious in any regard. Another example: some competition banning Korean players. Now that's sufficiently ridiculous that most people would realize that it's a joke. Now, the "joke" that Eclypsia made was terrible. Not paying salaries is a serious offense, and one that some people might empathize to. Furthermore, Eclypsia is a new team. Bad publicity is the worst possible thing that an organization can do if it's trying to get recognized.
Related example: would you walk into the middle of a black neighborhood and make racist jokes?
|
United States11933 Posts
On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke.
is this 'professional'?
http://www.eclypsia.com/forum/showthread.php?65-Post-your-best-memes-to-win-coaching
|
Well, I guess I somewhat understand Eclypsia's point of view on this one. They probably sent out an offer to several dota teams, and when multiple teams expressed interest sweetened the deal to see which team would respond.
If this was the first time Eclypsia had acted this way I wouldn't be a bit worried for their players...
But it's not. That "meme contest" bullshit was the worst thing I've ever seen a team do.
I actually think that the players of Exlypsia's SC2 team could do pretty well, so I REALLY hope some other sponsor buys them out.
On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke.
Nobody's using that to say Eclypsia is unprofessional.
It was just strike one. Not a big deal.
The meme contest however WAS truely unprofessional and really lets you know what Eclypsia is about: Exploitation.
"Hey, we have two starcraft 2 players who are REALLY easy to make fun of." "Hmm, are they good players?" "Yeah, but FUCKEM! Lets let the internet make fun of them and REWARD the people who do it best! It'll generate mad income bro!"
And now they're trying to get their Dota team to do their work for them.
Seriously, fuck these guys.
|
|
And why would I believe what the manager is saying? He is just looking for attention. If he has problem with Eclypsia. Talk to the people he got a problem with. Don't do it publicly. He is hurting the reputation of an organisation. And he might be lying or over exaggerating everything. We don't know. But the damage has been done.
|
On May 04 2012 03:24 GizmoPT wrote: lol some danish guy gets butt hurt and now everyone says Eclypsia is bad..
you guys are ruinning esports ;< some danish guys?
|
I'm certain that this kind of stuff happens all the time in lower-rung teams. Everybody involved means well, but business is difficult.
|
Wait what?They delayed their tournament with 0 warning, without letting their caster know, because there was a presidential debate on in France? What the fuck?
|
I sincerely doubt Mystress would lie about this. If they didn't wanna do certain things they wouldn't have left their current team which they were very happy with. This Eclypsia team just screams unprofessional among other things.
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
On May 04 2012 02:49 HaXXspetten wrote: If this is true, then this is ruining esports for sure :/
zomg the homeless guy down the street is also ruining esports!!!!
|
Delaying the 2000€ tournament for a presidental debate, the date of which has been known for probably months(They could easily have scheduled the tournament after the elections if they REALLY cared about it that much), that awful meme contest which makes me want to punch them in the face, that horrible april fools joke, this...
For some reason I really really hate Eclipse. It's too bad, I'd have wanted to cheer for Scarlett but I cannot bring myself to.
|
Seems that they keep having these large glaring incidents that EC pictures will go off better than intended.
Should probably lay low for a while.
|
Every team desRow joins seems to be really shady. One thinks he should've learnt not to commit to unknown organisations making big promises by now.
|
On May 04 2012 03:33 Legion710 wrote:Wow, pretty bad taste.. That thread on their forums was created on 4/20 I cried from laughing.
|
On May 04 2012 03:41 Shikyo wrote: Delaying the 2000€ tournament for a presidental debate, the date of which has been known for probably months(They could easily have scheduled the tournament after the elections if they REALLY cared about it that much), that awful meme contest which makes me want to punch them in the face, that horrible april fools joke, this...
For some reason I really really hate Eclipse. It's too bad, I'd have wanted to cheer for Scarlett but I cannot bring myself to. Hey man, cheer for Scarlett but hate Eclypsia. It's what most of her fans do already
|
It seems like Scarlett chose the wrong team. Eclypsia just seem like a shady team who don't really know what they're doing.
|
It's really hard to tell whether or not Eclypsia is for real or not. What's easy to tell is they have absolutely no clue how to run an organization/business. Their April fools joke, meme contest, and now this just show the guys running it are completely incompetent.
|
lol 5k viewers for stream? good luck with that.
|
Oh wow I hadn't looked at that meme contest thread on their site, thought it would be just pointless and not very funny. Not all out abusive like that. How can they leave that shit up there, it's their own players ffs??
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
On May 04 2012 03:46 Snackysnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:33 Legion710 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:30 crms wrote:On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke. is this 'professional'? http://www.eclypsia.com/forum/showthread.php?65-Post-your-best-memes-to-win-coaching Wow, pretty bad taste.. That thread on their forums was created on 4/20 I cried from laughing.
good catch lol!! bad taste!!
|
Eclypsia conditions to recruiting a team included capacities to stream and generate a specified audience.
Srsly? What the heck are they thinking? In e-sports you don´t even know if players don´t suddenly become bad...
|
On May 04 2012 03:33 Heouf wrote: And why would I believe what the manager is saying? He is just looking for attention. If he has problem with Eclypsia. Talk to the people he got a problem with. Don't do it publicly. He is hurting the reputation of an organisation. And he might be lying or over exaggerating everything. We don't know. But the damage has been done.
Mystress is a she
|
On May 04 2012 03:46 Snackysnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:33 Legion710 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:30 crms wrote:On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke. is this 'professional'? http://www.eclypsia.com/forum/showthread.php?65-Post-your-best-memes-to-win-coaching Wow, pretty bad taste.. That thread on their forums was created on 4/20 I cried from laughing.
Although 4/20 mean nothing in Europe nor France.
|
|
I thought their april fools day joke was pretty funny. The memes contest wasn't even that bad, just because some posters said some terrible things doesn't mean that Eclypsia is in the wrong...>_>
|
MystresS' original claim.
MystresS: Eclypsia then started to change their original offer... They wanted the players to generate 5000 viewers on the stream, forbid the players the use of IRC, and every time I tried to defend my players, explaining that it was impossible for them to have this many viewers in such a short time, I was threatened not to get paid... And this went on and on for three days.
Eclypsia's response to this "grossly misleading" claim.
Eclypsia conditions to recruiting a team included capacities to stream and generate a specified audience. A verbal agreement was found with Mystress ‘ Danish team to be transferred to Eclypsia on the base of the understanding and the acceptation of these conditions.
Unfortunately , the team was clearly unable to meet the conditions which therefore ended the agreement and the relationship.
We regret that many are taking their commitments too lighlty resulting in wasting time and energy for everybody involved Funny how Eclypsia's official "clarification" is the same thing that MystresS said.
Whether or not there were any actual legal issues, Eclypsia clearly has no understanding of PR or professionalism.
|
well its actually the DOTA teams problem they were dumb enough to leave quantic before a proper contract was presented before them. Eclypsia have done nothing wrong, because they didn't have a proper contract T_T
|
United States11933 Posts
On May 04 2012 03:54 AlgeriaT wrote: Oh wow I hadn't looked at that meme contest thread on their site, thought it would be just pointless and not very funny. Not all out abusive like that. How can they leave that shit up there, it's their own players ffs??
I just find it to be down right hilarious that the community pitchforks to get people fired, emails sponsors etc., after rage induced ladder matches but an actual 'esports' company hosts its very own contest in which community members are encouraged to bash their players and it goes relatively unnoticed.
Some of the scarlett memes are much more harsh and infintely more personal then some random ladder rage. It almost feels like psedo-sexual harrassment. I mean eclypsia is scarletts employer and they have a contest that is actively engaging in joking about her sexuality at her expense. Maybe she's ok with it, but it's pretty fucking cruel.
|
So they are making childish meme contest, skip a tournament because of a politic debate but in the same time they want a super professional team ('We realize the gaming industry needs to undergo a major turn towards more professionalism ') in an impossible delay. wtf is this team ahah
|
On May 04 2012 03:54 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:46 Snackysnacks wrote:On May 04 2012 03:33 Legion710 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:30 crms wrote:On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke. is this 'professional'? http://www.eclypsia.com/forum/showthread.php?65-Post-your-best-memes-to-win-coaching Wow, pretty bad taste.. That thread on their forums was created on 4/20 I cried from laughing. good catch lol!! bad taste!!
could you give context to this 20.4. you speak of, thanks?
|
Ya this is so bad. They did an April Fools that made me start off not respecting the team at all (plus that meme contest which reinforced my thoughts on them.) and now this.... Wtf? This time they are actually screwing over their players? I'm so done with Eclypsia and I hope they disband and can get their players a better team....
|
United States11933 Posts
On May 04 2012 03:58 Megabuster123 wrote: I thought their april fools day joke was pretty funny. The memes contest wasn't even that bad, just because some posters said some terrible things doesn't mean that Eclypsia is in the wrong...>_>
it's not wrong to have an official contest where forum posters post derogatory jokes about your players sexuality or apperance? I believe they do have a responsibility to moderate their forums. How long do you think such images would last on TL or EG if the images were harsh to one of their contracted players?
On the whole I don't mind it if scarlett doesn't care. I'm more interested in the community reactions. It breaks my brain that a destiny ladder rage incident where the word 'gook' was used sparks a 100+ page thread and sponsor emails but an esports organization hosts a contest in which participants openly mock scarletts sexuality or desrows size is no big deal. I'm not really saying it is or it isn't but the communitys values and determination on when to grab the pitchforks is seriously wacked the fuck out.
|
On May 04 2012 03:50 oxxo wrote: It's really hard to tell whether or not Eclypsia is for real or not. What's easy to tell is they have absolutely no clue how to run an organization/business. Their April fools joke, meme contest, and now this just show the guys running it are completely incompetent.
seems like they are always doing silly shit... that april fools joke was terrible lol
|
I don't know why anyone is surprised by this. Everything they've done thus far has caused issues or has been in poor taste, why would they change now?
|
On May 04 2012 04:03 snailz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:54 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 03:46 Snackysnacks wrote:On May 04 2012 03:33 Legion710 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:30 crms wrote:On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke. is this 'professional'? http://www.eclypsia.com/forum/showthread.php?65-Post-your-best-memes-to-win-coaching Wow, pretty bad taste.. That thread on their forums was created on 4/20 I cried from laughing. good catch lol!! bad taste!! could you give context to this 20.4. you speak of, thanks? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture)
|
On May 04 2012 04:03 snailz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:54 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 03:46 Snackysnacks wrote:On May 04 2012 03:33 Legion710 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:30 crms wrote:On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke. is this 'professional'? http://www.eclypsia.com/forum/showthread.php?65-Post-your-best-memes-to-win-coaching Wow, pretty bad taste.. That thread on their forums was created on 4/20 I cried from laughing. good catch lol!! bad taste!! could you give context to this 20.4. you speak of, thanks?
420 is a number associated with smoking weed...
|
One thing that is pretty interesting from this post is that 13200€ - 18000€ ($17,352 - $23,664) a year salary per player is considered a dream as an esports competitor
|
Yep, that's terrible. It reflects poorly on Eclypsia to keep those "memes" up.
In response to the poster talking about the seriousness of joking about unpaid salary. I think it was a joke largely at Eclypsia's own expense - being a small, sponsorless (i think) team. Nothing mean going on there, unlike that meme competition business. Ew.
But I'm going to put my personal feelings aside for real evidence of foul play in this particular case. Eclypsia's poor taste is circumstantial at best.
|
On May 04 2012 04:16 SirPsychoMantis wrote: One thing that is pretty interesting from this post is that 13200€ - 18000€ ($17,352 - $23,664) a year salary is considered a dream as an esports competitor
For 1 players yes. For 5, and maybe even a manager? I don't think so...
|
|
On May 04 2012 03:58 Megabuster123 wrote: I thought their april fools day joke was pretty funny. The memes contest wasn't even that bad, just because some posters said some terrible things doesn't mean that Eclypsia is in the wrong...>_>
It does mean Eclypsia is in the wrong. They exploited their players to bring them publicity.
Here's my post from a couple pages back that got buried pretty quick:
On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke.
Nobody's using that to say Eclypsia is unprofessional.
It was just strike one. Not a big deal.
The meme contest however WAS truely unprofessional and really lets you know what Eclypsia is about: Exploitation.
"Hey, we have two starcraft 2 players who are REALLY easy to make fun of." "Hmm, are they good players?" "Yeah, but FUCKEM! Lets let the internet make fun of them and REWARD the people who do it best! It'll generate mad income bro!"
And now they're trying to get their Dota team to do their work for them and threatening with not paying them if they don't.
Seriously, fuck these guys.
|
On May 04 2012 04:17 windzor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:16 SirPsychoMantis wrote: One thing that is pretty interesting from this post is that 13200€ - 18000€ ($17,352 - $23,664) a year salary is considered a dream as an esports competitor For 1 players yes. For 5, and maybe even a manager? I don't think so...
Sorry I didn't specify, I did the calculatons for per player (given 5 players), so including the manager I guess it would be a bit lower.
Also it definitely would be a good salary if housing and food were provided, however if not that is looking close to minimum wage (US). Also requiring 12(!) hours of streaming a day seems a bit rediculous.
EDIT: Grammars
|
All things considered Eclypsia does look extremly unprofessional. I would not be surprised if they don't hold many other promises as well.
Eclypsia is hurting Esports.
|
Does anyone know wether Eclypsia has yet made any money?
|
On May 04 2012 04:16 SirPsychoMantis wrote: One thing that is pretty interesting from this post is that 13200€ - 18000€ ($17,352 - $23,664) a year salary per player is considered a dream as an esports competitor
+ 100% of tournament earnings and ofc free sponsor shit like headsets, gfx cards(which you can sell ofc) etc etc
|
On May 04 2012 04:24 SirPsychoMantis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:17 windzor wrote:On May 04 2012 04:16 SirPsychoMantis wrote: One thing that is pretty interesting from this post is that 13200€ - 18000€ ($17,352 - $23,664) a year salary is considered a dream as an esports competitor For 1 players yes. For 5, and maybe even a manager? I don't think so... Sorry I didn't specify, I did the calculatons for per player (given 5 players), so including the manager I guess it would be a bit lower. Also it definitely would be a good salary if housing and food were provided, however if not that is looking close to minimum wage (US). Also requiring 12(!) hours of streaming a day seem a bit rediculous.
No housing or anything, it's all wage, and then the team would get winnings and I would guess stream money. But it's below minimum wage, or really close, in Denmark.. I think it's actually below what you get from the goverment when you are unemployed, if my math is correct.
|
On May 04 2012 04:27 DwD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:16 SirPsychoMantis wrote: One thing that is pretty interesting from this post is that 13200€ - 18000€ ($17,352 - $23,664) a year salary per player is considered a dream as an esports competitor + 100% of tournament earnings and ofc free sponsor shit like headsets, gfx cards(which you can sell ofc) etc etc
Read the interview. They didn't get 100% tournament money... And they had no sponsors, so they only gave equipment in order to do the streaming part...
|
|
If this is an april fools like joke its getting pretty old... but if its real that just sucks
|
On May 04 2012 04:27 DwD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:16 SirPsychoMantis wrote: One thing that is pretty interesting from this post is that 13200€ - 18000€ ($17,352 - $23,664) a year salary per player is considered a dream as an esports competitor + 100% of tournament earnings and ofc free sponsor shit like headsets, gfx cards(which you can sell ofc) etc etc
Which is something that kinda sucks about esports, either you are at the top of the top players making a decent amount or you are living in poverty.
|
So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation.
|
I think people need to realize that they were never in Eclypsia, and weren't treated badly just because Eclypsia set demands they couldn't meet. I honestly don't see what Eclypsia did wrong (except seeming amateurish in asking them to seek sponsors, which I doubt even happened).
|
This should not be in the sc2 section... I'm more concerned for Scarlett. The way they are handling their team is so sketchy and hopefully Scarlett finds a better team.
|
On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation.
Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away.
|
On May 04 2012 04:37 SirPsychoMantis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:27 DwD wrote:On May 04 2012 04:16 SirPsychoMantis wrote: One thing that is pretty interesting from this post is that 13200€ - 18000€ ($17,352 - $23,664) a year salary per player is considered a dream as an esports competitor + 100% of tournament earnings and ofc free sponsor shit like headsets, gfx cards(which you can sell ofc) etc etc Which is something that kinda sucks about esports, either you are at the top of the top players making a decent amount or you are living in poverty. That depends on where you are living, in America that might not be a lot, but in Eastern Europe for example it is a decent amount of money.
|
DId anyone else cringe reading the first few lines? Its like youre praising how amazing and popular they are. fuck that.
"(Wiki2)Eclypsia which everyone in the Starcraft community should know about at this point, having recently signed players such as (Z)Scarlett, (P)desRow and (T)Artist, the team has shot out of nowhere to be quite the presence in the E-sports world, not only for Starcraft 2, but also for DotA 2."
I wish i never knew about this team. (obv im not talking about the players themselves)
|
Wouldn't be a normal day on TL without more SCII drama.
I hope the players aren't totally screwed though.
|
On May 04 2012 04:39 nkr wrote: I think people need to realize that they were never in Eclypsia, and weren't treated badly just because Eclypsia set demands they couldn't meet. I honestly don't see what Eclypsia did wrong (except seeming amateurish in asking them to seek sponsors, which I doubt even happened).
This 10000 times. Now if Eclypsia suddenly had come up with strange conditions after signing the players, it would have been a problem. But telling them tese conditions before signing them, how is that even an issue?
Just sad how easily this community jumps on every hate bandwagon out there.
|
On May 04 2012 04:20 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:58 Megabuster123 wrote: I thought their april fools day joke was pretty funny. The memes contest wasn't even that bad, just because some posters said some terrible things doesn't mean that Eclypsia is in the wrong...>_> It does mean Eclypsia is in the wrong. They exploited their players to bring them publicity. Here's my post from a couple pages back that got buried pretty quick: Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke. Nobody's using that to say Eclypsia is unprofessional. It was just strike one. Not a big deal. The meme contest however WAS truely unprofessional and really lets you know what Eclypsia is about: Exploitation. "Hey, we have two starcraft 2 players who are REALLY easy to make fun of." "Hmm, are they good players?" "Yeah, but FUCKEM! Lets let the internet make fun of them and REWARD the people who do it best! It'll generate mad income bro!" And now they're trying to get their Dota team to do their work for them and threatening with not paying them if they don't. Seriously, fuck these guys.
Are you sure "nobody" is using the April Fool's Joke to show taht Eclypsia is unprofessional?
If you missed my post, I repeat my condemnation for the meme thread, if it matters much at all. However! That's not to say this instance was Eclypsia's fault. While we look for past actions for context, we still need some real evidence - which is lacking.
I'll echo the response of other level-headed posters here: where is the contract, transcript etc. with details of the deal?
|
So who sponsors Eclypsia. They seem to have a giant roster.
|
On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?
If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid.
|
Abandon ship, Scarlett! Abandon ship!
I feel bad for the roster as they have just recently joined =[
|
On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid? If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid.
Whether it's reasonable or not is not the question, and doesn't actually matter in this case. Eclypsia are being accused of mistreating someone. Which hasn't happened. If they feel it was unreasonable then just say no to the contract offer.
|
This to me just seems like MystresS didn't like the conditions that were put forward and decided to get pissy and create a lot of fake drama. Complete non-issue.
They were obviously still in negotiations, first you give an offer and then you give the conditions, MystresS couldn't have imagined they would be given a salary without meeting certain conditions surely.
|
i bet there was no paper contracts ever signed.
and i was right, "verbal agreement", lol
and i would expect the "esports" team to be the one offering a written contract if they were at all competent and trying to look professional and not just agreeing to a verbal contract. regardless of what was agreed to, this already makes them look bad.
|
On May 04 2012 04:42 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:39 nkr wrote: I think people need to realize that they were never in Eclypsia, and weren't treated badly just because Eclypsia set demands they couldn't meet. I honestly don't see what Eclypsia did wrong (except seeming amateurish in asking them to seek sponsors, which I doubt even happened).
This 10000 times. Now if Eclypsia suddenly had come up with strange conditions after signing the players, it would have been a problem. But telling them tese conditions before signing them, how is that even an issue? Just sad how easily this community jumps on every hate bandwagon out there. Bullshit. It's 100% unprofessional to put an offer on the table and then start informing the second party that the offer was not serious or incomplete.
|
Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped.
Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there.
|
On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid.
If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes?
Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever.
There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'.
Edit
On May 04 2012 04:50 TigerKarl wrote: Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped.
Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there.
And stop being butthurt for falling for an April fools joke.
|
On May 04 2012 04:46 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid? If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. Whether it's reasonable or not is not the question, and doesn't actually matter in this case. Eclypsia are being accused of mistreating someone. Which hasn't happened. If they feel it was unreasonable then just say no to the contract offer.
Yes they didn't have a contract, but eC already announced them as players on their homepage. How am you not a part of the team then? You don't have a signed paper no, but they clearly see you as "signed" and you agreed to join, but the terms keep changing to the worse? 5k viewer is something that i've only seen 2 dota2 players ever reach and their personal streams. And it's not something which happens everyday.
I do believe the players are at fault for jumping the ship too fast from quantic, but I do still believe eC is doing something shady.
|
On May 04 2012 04:42 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:39 nkr wrote: I think people need to realize that they were never in Eclypsia, and weren't treated badly just because Eclypsia set demands they couldn't meet. I honestly don't see what Eclypsia did wrong (except seeming amateurish in asking them to seek sponsors, which I doubt even happened).
This 10000 times. Now if Eclypsia suddenly had come up with strange conditions after signing the players, it would have been a problem. But telling them tese conditions before signing them, how is that even an issue? Just sad how easily this community jumps on every hate bandwagon out there.
Lol seriously guys? "Yeah we will give you this salary and you can make all the profits from your stream."
"Oh wait we have no money to pay you and since your not generating 5000 viewers (which is virtually impossible for such a not known team and even well known good players like ogsvines only gets like 2K) then are agreements broken. Also all the tournaments we had setup where you could earn prize money are cancelled."
You two, "wow why is everyone on the hate wagon. They haven't done anything wrong..."
One of you even said "They didn't do anything wrong they just setup conditions for their team they couldn't meet."
It's more like, they setup conditions they speculated they could meet with publicity they hoped to get from their players. And they can't. I don't know how you could say they've done nothing wrong and the other dude "this 10000 times." they did TONS of stuff wrong. I don't know how you could say that setting up an agreement with your team members that you can't fulfill isnt something wrong.
Also your automatically assuming (this is to the 2nd quoted person.) that Eclypsia is the one being totally truthful and denying the possibility that the guy was the one being truthful. I'm leaning more towards the guy being truthful because if he's at all intelligent then he wouldn't agree to "5000 viewers or no deal" considering how unlikely that is to do. On top of Eclypsia's rebuttal saying it was a "verbal agreement." which is impossible to prove even if the player denies it.
|
Hey Eclypsia-marketing-guy. April 1st is already over !
|
can anyone be surprised? team makes a joke out of not paying their players and then doesnt actually pay their players.
|
The thing I really really don't like about Eclypsia is the fact that they aren't a real organization.
They seem to have promised all their players pretty high salaries, but the team doesn't have any sponsors at all and it's completely unknown where their money is coming from or if they even have the money. It sounds like an 'organization' that is taking immense risks and if they don't work out they will just disband as quick as they came.
But let's say there is some rich guy behind Eclypsia which is the only way for them to make such promises, otherwise it would mean the organization actually has no money. That would mean that when this guy gets bored with the team or there are fights within the management the team also just disbands since they don't have any sponsors.
This can't go well and I would advice any player to not sign a contract with them.
|
|
On May 04 2012 04:46 ComusLoM wrote: This to me just seems like MystresS didn't like the conditions that were put forward and decided to get pissy and create a lot of fake drama. Complete non-issue.
They were obviously still in negotiations, first you give an offer and then you give the conditions, MystresS couldn't have imagined they would be given a salary without meeting certain conditions surely. That's not the case at all. They got an amazing deal from Eclypsia, and dropped their team for it pretty much. They were announced to be joining, though no contract had been signed, it seemed like an airtight deal. Then Eclypsia goes "oh wait guys that wasn't yoooour deal, that was the one we were gonna offer Na'Vi, here, this gimped version was for you". It's like telling someone you'll hire them to sing at your bar, full tips, $30/hour wage, with accommodation, they just need to move states though you'll pay for their ticket, and then when they arrive, you tell them that you get a large portion of their tips (all if they don't get enough), their wage has been halved, there's no accommodation, and the ticket was one way.
Essentially that lady from Pluto Nash. This entire post was made so I could reference that movie. + Show Spoiler +I fucking love Pluto Nash, bad as it is
|
On May 04 2012 04:54 Berailfor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:42 Redox wrote:On May 04 2012 04:39 nkr wrote: I think people need to realize that they were never in Eclypsia, and weren't treated badly just because Eclypsia set demands they couldn't meet. I honestly don't see what Eclypsia did wrong (except seeming amateurish in asking them to seek sponsors, which I doubt even happened).
This 10000 times. Now if Eclypsia suddenly had come up with strange conditions after signing the players, it would have been a problem. But telling them tese conditions before signing them, how is that even an issue? Just sad how easily this community jumps on every hate bandwagon out there. Lol seriously guys? "Yeah we will give you this salary and you can make all the profits from your stream." "Oh wait we have no money to pay you and since your not generating 5000 viewers (which is virtually impossible for such a not known team and even well known good players like ogsvines only gets like 2K) then are agreements broken. Also all the tournaments we had setup where you could earn prize money are cancelled." You two, "wow why is everyone on the hate wagon. They haven't done anything wrong..." One of you even said "They didn't do anything wrong they just setup conditions for their team they couldn't meet." It's more like, they setup conditions they speculated they could meet with publicity they hoped to get from their players. And they can't. I don't know how you could say they've done nothing wrong and the other dude "this 10000 times." they did TONS of stuff wrong. I don't know how you could say that setting up an agreement with your team members that you can't fulfill isnt something wrong. Also your automatically assuming (this is to the 2nd quoted person.) that Eclypsia is the one being totally truthful and denying the possibility that the guy was the one being truthful. I'm leaning more towards the guy being truthful because if he's at all intelligent then he wouldn't agree to "5000 viewers or no deal" considering how unlikely that is to do. On top of Eclypsia's rebuttal saying it was a "verbal agreement." which is impossible to prove even if the player denies it.
Well you're automatically assuming that the one accusing eclypsia is being truthful. I guess we don't know. I can see this dota2 team agreeing to join eclypsia before they actually read the contracts, and when they did and realized they wouldn't meet the demands, they started crying. Seeing as how they left a perfectly good organisation and all.
|
I agree with the people saying there was no contract. So legally they did nothing wrong, but that is a completely different thing than being professional/unprofessional.
Stipulating a viewer count as a conditional salary is worse than when game publishers give devs less money if they don't meet a metacritic score, just absolutely stupid and unprofessional. Honestly I would discredit them as a team for the sole fact that they thought it was a good idea.
The way to do it is contracting someone because you know they are a popular streamer, you can't force someone to become a popular streamer
|
On May 04 2012 04:50 TigerKarl wrote: Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped.
Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there.
don't support them then, you don't have to actively go after them.
being a part of the e-sports community shouldn't mean you get a free tote bag with a pitchfork in it and that pitchfork has to be pulled out every time you don't like something
i thought people complaining about the grab the pitchforks mentality were being a little overdramatic when it was brought up during the destiny drama but now i'm not so sure.
|
On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:50 TigerKarl wrote: Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped.
Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there. And stop being butthurt for falling for an April fools joke. Not all April Fool's jokes are made equal. Jokes in bad taste are PR suicide. I'll bring up my previous post because it's relevant to this part of the discussion.
On May 04 2012 03:30 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:27 plogamer wrote: Let's get this straight people.
Eclypsia's April Fool's Day joke was just that - a joke. This is in no way related to the current situation. It might be ironic, but there is no real world relevance. Please do not drone on about unprofessionalism. I can't imagine a "professional" April Fool's Joke. Jokes aren't simply jokes. Jokes have to be in good taste and people should be easily able to see the punchline. Some examples of April Fool's jokes on TL: Bomber going to the military. It generated a lot of discussion, but it wasn't malicious in any regard. Another example: some competition banning Korean players. Now that's sufficiently ridiculous that most people would realize that it's a joke. Now, the "joke" that Eclypsia made was terrible. Not paying salaries is a serious offense, and one that some people might empathize to. Furthermore, Eclypsia is a new team. Bad publicity is the worst possible thing that an organization can do if it's trying to get recognized. Related example: would you walk into the middle of a black neighborhood and make racist jokes?
|
On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. Edit Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:50 TigerKarl wrote: Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped.
Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there. And stop being butthurt for falling for an April fools joke.
Your absolutely right. If it was a contract they signed about the 5000 viewers then so be it. The guy was stupid for signing a contract that he didn't get paid when he didn't generate 5000 viewers (which is 100% TOTALLY unreasonable). But that isn't what happened. That was not in the contract. If it was then Eclypsia wouldn't have claimed this as a "verbal agreement" and the other guy wouldn't be claiming that this was never specified. I'm not 100% saying Eclyspia DIDN'T specify this. But your 100% saying they DID. Which is just as bad. And giving a team with a real bad track record the benefit of the doubt. Like I stated in my previous post. I think that Eclypsia is LYING. Why you ask? Because would you ever agree to "you won't get paid unless you generate 5K viewers?" of course not.. Because if your at all intelligent then you'd know that going to be impossible for someone who isn't well known. So if the guy who joined is AT ALL intelligent he wouldn't have agreed to that.
I think Eclyspia is not only lying, but taking advantage of the fact that they can recruit players who are semi-desperate for a team.
|
On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'.
And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one.
Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases.
|
This is messed up. Hopefully these players had an actual written contract agreement.
edit: written contract agreement*
|
On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases.
According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened.
|
If this is true, then at least Scarlett has earned some prize money as of late, so she probably won't completely crash. Can't say the same for the other members, though.
|
On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened.
Conflicting sources... typical.
|
How to spot a bad/fake/inexperienced organisation that you don't want to affiliate yourself with:
1) Contact page, do they have one? Is there a phone number? An email adress? Not just a contact form. 2) Domain name, is it registered to a real person and not to some anonymous service? 3) Company details, is the team a registered company? Who registered it and how long have they been going? 4) Real names and photos of management, not nick names and empty profile pages.
Getting through these 4 points when being approached by an organisation is a must for players, unless the organisation is known ofc.
Looking at Eclypsia they fail at each one which kinda sums it up.
Edit: added some stuff.
|
On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened.
I don't see where eC says that didn't happen. Can you please show me?
What I read is eC saying everything Mysstress said was true, but in a "nicer" language.
|
On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. Taking Eclypsia's statement at face value is even worse, because it basically says that after a single week the DOTA2 players couldn't stream for 10 hours/day and/or didn't reach 5k viewers. After one week. So they dropped them.
And this is probably before they even got equipment to do streaming.
So yeah, Eclypsia's statement is basically pure BS.
|
On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases.
And there are many people who make sweeping generalisations about if someone has read up on a subject before posting or not. I've read the article and see nothing from either side that proves beyond doubt that there was something sinister or unjust going on from either side.
I also don't know why absolutely EVERYTHING has to be dragged up on forums for the pitchfork crowd EVERY TIME something someone doesn't like happens.
On May 04 2012 05:03 Berailfor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. Edit On May 04 2012 04:50 TigerKarl wrote: Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped.
Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there. And stop being butthurt for falling for an April fools joke. Your absolutely right. If it was a contract they signed about the 5000 viewers then so be it. The guy was stupid for signing a contract that he didn't get paid when he didn't generate 5000 viewers (which is 100% TOTALLY unreasonable). But that isn't what happened. That was not in the contract. If it was then Eclypsia wouldn't have claimed this as a "verbal agreement" and the other guy wouldn't be claiming that this was never specified. I'm not 100% saying Eclyspia DIDN'T specify this. But your 100% saying they DID. Which is just as bad. And giving a team with a real bad track record the benefit of the doubt. Like I stated in my previous post. I think that Eclypsia is LYING. Why you ask? Because would you ever agree to "you won't get paid unless you generate 5K viewers?" of course not.. Because if your at all intelligent then you'd know that going to be impossible for someone who isn't well known. So if the guy who joined is AT ALL intelligent he wouldn't have agreed to that. I think Eclyspia is not only lying, but taking advantage of the fact that they can recruit players who are semi-desperate for a team.
You think.
Exactly my point. Neither you nor I know what terms were agreed to. All we have is the word of one party against the word of another.
|
On May 04 2012 05:13 dignitasNewmaN wrote: How to spot a bad/fake/inexperienced organisation that you don't want to affiliate yourself with:
1) Contact page, do they have one? Is there a phone number? An email adress? Not just a contact form. 2) Domain name, is it registered to a real person and not to some anonymous service? 3) Company details, is the team a registered company? Who registered it and how long have they been going?
Getting through these 3 points when being approached by an organisation is a must for players, unless the organisation is known ofc.
I'm honestly astounded at the fact that they managed to even attract such investment (if they did of course) with such a poor approach the professionalism and even just legitimacy? It doesn't make sense at all
|
it's not that they are hurting esports. they just suck at it. that and running a respectable storefront which is the name of the game right now. they probably won't get hurt in court for any of this but the situation just makes them look really unprofessional. if they were a protoss player, idra would call them gimmicky.
|
On May 04 2012 05:13 windzor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. I don't see where eC says that didn't happen. Can you please show me? What I read is eC saying everything Mysstress said was true, but in a "nicer" language.
"Eclypsia conditions to recruiting a team included capacities to stream and generate a specified audience. A verbal agreement was found with Mystress ‘ Danish team to be transferred to Eclypsia on the base of the understanding and the acceptation of these conditions."
|
On May 04 2012 05:00 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:50 TigerKarl wrote: Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped.
Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there. don't support them then, you don't have to actively go after them. being a part of the e-sports community shouldn't mean you get a free tote bag with a pitchfork in it and that pitchfork has to be pulled out every time you don't like something i thought people complaining about the grab the pitchforks mentality were being a little overdramatic when it was brought up during the destiny drama but now i'm not so sure.
And Katu and Orb.
A large proportion of this community sickens me.
Don't people have better things to do?
|
The meme thead on eclypsia forums has to be the funniest bit of reading i have seen in a while, literally 2 serious suggestions which could be accepted. Is there any part of their organization which isn't a complete disaster?
|
On May 04 2012 05:22 Mantraz wrote: The meme thead on eclypsia forums has to be the funniest bit of reading i have seen in a while, literally 2 serious suggestions which could be accepted. Is there any part of their organization which isn't a complete disaster? The money behind it. Though it's a shady business, it's certainly a very wealthy one.
|
|
The point is, if Mystress have only a verbal account of things and nothing on paper from Eclypsia which Eclypsia refuses to live up to... there is nothing to dwell on here. Eclypsia decided not to work with those guys and thats that.
|
On May 04 2012 05:21 scarrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:00 DeepElemBlues wrote:On May 04 2012 04:50 TigerKarl wrote: Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped.
Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there. don't support them then, you don't have to actively go after them. being a part of the e-sports community shouldn't mean you get a free tote bag with a pitchfork in it and that pitchfork has to be pulled out every time you don't like something i thought people complaining about the grab the pitchforks mentality were being a little overdramatic when it was brought up during the destiny drama but now i'm not so sure. And Katu and Orb. A large proportion of this community sickens me. Don't people have better things to do? You should ask the same of the people you listed.
|
On May 04 2012 05:21 scarrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:00 DeepElemBlues wrote:On May 04 2012 04:50 TigerKarl wrote: Anyone who supports Eclypsia is willingly risking the integrity of E-Sports. I knew from March 30th on, that this "organization" must be withdrawn from E-Sports, even after they revealed their April fools "joke" to be a hoax on April 1st, i kept pointing a finger on them for risking the face of professional E-Sports for selfish PR-reasons. I heard many people say that they liked this "organizations" april fools, but i really hope that now everyone realizes that these amateur clowns have to be stopped.
Only sad thing here is that they managed to lure in some good players, first and foremost Scarlett. I hope she can get out of there. don't support them then, you don't have to actively go after them. being a part of the e-sports community shouldn't mean you get a free tote bag with a pitchfork in it and that pitchfork has to be pulled out every time you don't like something i thought people complaining about the grab the pitchforks mentality were being a little overdramatic when it was brought up during the destiny drama but now i'm not so sure. And Katu and Orb. A large proportion of this community sickens me. Don't people have better things to do? Getting pissy over words is idiotic, but this is something the community should actually be a part of.
We're talking about potentially screwing with teams contracts and players livelihoods through ignorance and/or negligence. Eclypsia made an offer to a team, the team accepted it, Eclypsia contacted Quantic to arrange a release of the current contract, and then started to add more terms on to the agreement.
So now the DOTA2 team is in some weird limbo state, where they are signed to a team that thought they were about to leave.
Even if the community can't get Eclypsia to shape up, players need to know that the team they're getting offers from is extremely unprofessional.
On May 04 2012 05:24 iDope wrote: The point is, if Mystress have only a verbal account of things and nothing on paper from Eclypsia which Eclypsia refuses to live up to... there is nothing to dwell on here. Eclypsia decided not to work with those guys and thats that. Except Eclypsia was already trying to get Quantic to drop the team. The only saving grace here is that Quantic didn't release the contracts yet.
I'm pretty sure that since it reached that point, Eclypsia could be brought up for estoppel. Of course...no one actually has the money to go to court.
|
On May 04 2012 05:23 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:22 Mantraz wrote: The meme thead on eclypsia forums has to be the funniest bit of reading i have seen in a while, literally 2 serious suggestions which could be accepted. Is there any part of their organization which isn't a complete disaster? The money behind it. Though it's a shady business, it's certainly a very wealthy one.
How do we know tho, I could make a professional website and contact players with an unreleastic contract aswell. As I've said before, Eclypsia doesn't have ANY sponsors, I would really like to know from some of the Eclypsia players if they actually received their promised salaries.
|
Too much misinformation floating around. Given gaming history, odds suggest that the business acumen of the team/manager is lacking, and they were unable to meet what they agreed they would uphold. Eclypsia wanted to walk away and says as much in their statement, even specifying that people need to take the conditions seriously.
Unless something more concrete comes out, there's not much one can do.
|
This is so ironic after the whole April fools thing
|
Dumb April Fools joke, meme contest about their own players and now talks of this. Can't say I'm too surprised, this team is a mess.
|
Stuff like this is pretty rampant in rookie esports organisations as far as my personal experience goes, and the offers i've heard about, they always fail to follow through, but regrettable for such a major team.
|
why the drama ? you people want drama, go to reddit. get a grip, in my opinion it is like this: you got a contract you can come to forums, cry and whine that the team has broken the terms of the contract. you don't have anything but what you say against what they say, all you do is create unnecessary drama which helps no one involved. i believe that if there was something wrong with eclypsia we would already hear about it from the players they signed already like DesRow, Scarlet... as long as their already SIGNED players are not complaining I know that they are an OK organization.
|
On May 04 2012 05:21 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:13 windzor wrote:On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. I don't see where eC says that didn't happen. Can you please show me? What I read is eC saying everything Mysstress said was true, but in a "nicer" language. "Eclypsia conditions to recruiting a team included capacities to stream and generate a specified audience. A verbal agreement was found with Mystress ‘ Danish team to be transferred to Eclypsia on the base of the understanding and the acceptation of these conditions."
Yes what Mystress says. They wanted to have minimum streaming and such. The players said that was impossible and eC didn't want them then. At no point do they say anything about eC not wanting to honour Quantic contracts...
|
On May 04 2012 05:34 inermis wrote: why the drama ? you people want drama, go to reddit. get a grip, in my opinion it is like this: you got a contract you can come to forums, cry and whine that the team has broken the terms of the contract. you don't have anything but what you say against what they say, all you do is create unnecessary drama which helps no one involved. i believe that if there was something wrong with eclypsia we would already hear about it from the players they signed already like DesRow, Scarlet... as long as their already SIGNED players are not complaining I know that they are an OK organization. Learn to read.
Eclypsia contacted Quantic to get the DOTA2 team released. As soon as it hit that point, it went well beyond an offer.
|
We're talking about potentially screwing with teams contracts and players livelihoods through ignorance and/or negligence. Eclypsia made an offer to a team, the team accepted it, Eclypsia contacted Quantic to arrange a release of the current contract, and then started to add more terms on to the agreement.
Coming back with additional terms to a contract after one side believes that some kind of agreement has been reached is a dick move but it happens all the time in business negotiations. Sides jockey for advantage until a final deal is hammered out. Unless the new terms are outrageous it usually doesn't cause much resentment. Trying to rile up a pitchfork brigade over it as some people (not you) seem to want to do is childish and counterproductive, as it generates a lot of light and usually very little heat, just drama-filled discussions at places like TL. It's a matter to be handled at the professional level. If Eclypsia can't act professionally then they will be starved out of the community by the other, truly professional organizations refusing to get involved with them.
|
I have a weird feeling about this team.
|
What a disqusting team. Stay away.
|
I wonder what the odds are on this being a joke to get some publicity? The dota 2 team will turn around in a few days and say something to the effect of "Lol j/k Eclypsia are great, give everything they promise we are now part of their organisation we just did it for hype!"
|
On May 04 2012 05:36 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +We're talking about potentially screwing with teams contracts and players livelihoods through ignorance and/or negligence. Eclypsia made an offer to a team, the team accepted it, Eclypsia contacted Quantic to arrange a release of the current contract, and then started to add more terms on to the agreement.
Coming back with additional terms to a contract after one side believes that some kind of agreement has been reached is a dick move but it happens all the time in business negotiations. Sides jockey for advantage until a final deal is hammered out. Unless the new terms are outrageous it usually doesn't cause much resentment. Trying to rile up a pitchfork brigade over it as some people (not you) seem to want to do is childish and counterproductive, as it generates a lot of light and usually very little heat, just drama-filled discussions at places like TL. It's a matter to be handled at the professional level. If Eclypsia can't act professionally then they will be starved out of the community by the other, truly professional organizations refusing to get involved with them.
But the terms what outrageous? No money unless you have 5k viewers? Mania is the only on the team who sometimes streams now, and he gets on a good day 1k viewers. Only dota2 player streaming who consistenly gets over 3k viewers is Dendi who is regarded the best player in the world. How is that not outrageous?
|
such a sketchy team anyways, all their PR stunts have been disastrous
|
MystresS seems to talk big and use big words but the truth is too big.
|
It seems hard to really make any fair judgements about eclypsia in this. how much do we even know about this mystress? Idk, give the team the benefit of the doubt until its proven otherwise, otherwise it can just screw up the team for possibly no reason.
|
On May 04 2012 05:36 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +We're talking about potentially screwing with teams contracts and players livelihoods through ignorance and/or negligence. Eclypsia made an offer to a team, the team accepted it, Eclypsia contacted Quantic to arrange a release of the current contract, and then started to add more terms on to the agreement.
Coming back with additional terms to a contract after one side believes that some kind of agreement has been reached is a dick move but it happens all the time in business negotiations. Sides jockey for advantage until a final deal is hammered out. Unless the new terms are outrageous it usually doesn't cause much resentment. Trying to rile up a pitchfork brigade over it as some people (not you) seem to want to do is childish and counterproductive, as it generates a lot of light and usually very little heat, just drama-filled discussions at places like TL. It's a matter to be handled at the professional level. If Eclypsia can't act professionally then they will be starved out of the community by the other, truly professional organizations refusing to get involved with them. Depending on the laws of the country, the fact that Eclypsia already effected their existing contract could make the original offer binding.
It would be like a company telling you to give your current employer 2 weeks notice, and then try to change their offer to you once you've done so.
|
On May 04 2012 05:43 rANDY wrote: I wonder what the odds are on this being a joke to get some publicity? The dota 2 team will turn around in a few days and say something to the effect of "Lol j/k Eclypsia are great, give everything they promise we are now part of their organisation we just did it for hype!" I don't think that the type of quantic.
|
On May 04 2012 05:47 Acronysis wrote: It seems hard to really make any fair judgements about eclypsia in this. how much do we even know about this mystress? Idk, give the team the benefit of the doubt until its proven otherwise, otherwise it can just screw up the team for possibly no reason.
They already fucked themselves before mystress said a word...
|
On May 04 2012 05:50 Seldentar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:47 Acronysis wrote: It seems hard to really make any fair judgements about eclypsia in this. how much do we even know about this mystress? Idk, give the team the benefit of the doubt until its proven otherwise, otherwise it can just screw up the team for possibly no reason.
They already fucked themselves before mystress said a word...
What, do you mean the april fools?
|
On May 04 2012 05:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:36 DeepElemBlues wrote:We're talking about potentially screwing with teams contracts and players livelihoods through ignorance and/or negligence. Eclypsia made an offer to a team, the team accepted it, Eclypsia contacted Quantic to arrange a release of the current contract, and then started to add more terms on to the agreement.
Coming back with additional terms to a contract after one side believes that some kind of agreement has been reached is a dick move but it happens all the time in business negotiations. Sides jockey for advantage until a final deal is hammered out. Unless the new terms are outrageous it usually doesn't cause much resentment. Trying to rile up a pitchfork brigade over it as some people (not you) seem to want to do is childish and counterproductive, as it generates a lot of light and usually very little heat, just drama-filled discussions at places like TL. It's a matter to be handled at the professional level. If Eclypsia can't act professionally then they will be starved out of the community by the other, truly professional organizations refusing to get involved with them. Depending on the laws of the country, the fact that Eclypsia already effected their existing contract could make the original offer binding. It would be like a company telling you to give your current employer 2 weeks notice, and then try to change their offer to you once you've done so.
If it's under danish law, a verbal agreement is legal binding. As most of this information is properly handled via email and/or skype you also have proof. But that's IF it's under danish law. And nobody has the money to sue them, so discussing such stuff is stupid.
|
On May 04 2012 05:51 Acronysis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:50 Seldentar wrote:On May 04 2012 05:47 Acronysis wrote: It seems hard to really make any fair judgements about eclypsia in this. how much do we even know about this mystress? Idk, give the team the benefit of the doubt until its proven otherwise, otherwise it can just screw up the team for possibly no reason.
They already fucked themselves before mystress said a word... What, do you mean the april fools? Among other things. Eclypsia has shown itself to have poor judgment when it comes to their players and their PR.
|
On May 04 2012 05:54 windzor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 05:36 DeepElemBlues wrote:We're talking about potentially screwing with teams contracts and players livelihoods through ignorance and/or negligence. Eclypsia made an offer to a team, the team accepted it, Eclypsia contacted Quantic to arrange a release of the current contract, and then started to add more terms on to the agreement.
Coming back with additional terms to a contract after one side believes that some kind of agreement has been reached is a dick move but it happens all the time in business negotiations. Sides jockey for advantage until a final deal is hammered out. Unless the new terms are outrageous it usually doesn't cause much resentment. Trying to rile up a pitchfork brigade over it as some people (not you) seem to want to do is childish and counterproductive, as it generates a lot of light and usually very little heat, just drama-filled discussions at places like TL. It's a matter to be handled at the professional level. If Eclypsia can't act professionally then they will be starved out of the community by the other, truly professional organizations refusing to get involved with them. Depending on the laws of the country, the fact that Eclypsia already effected their existing contract could make the original offer binding. It would be like a company telling you to give your current employer 2 weeks notice, and then try to change their offer to you once you've done so. If it's under danish law, a verbal agreement is legal binding. As most of this information is properly handled via email and/or skype you also have proof. But that's IF it's under danish law. And nobody has the money to sue them, so discussing such stuff is stupid. Well, not entirely true. In many civil courts you're allowed to represent yourself (or your team in this case). It's generally not recommended, but certainly an option if the stakes are worth enough money for your time, but not enough to pay for a lawyer.
|
On May 04 2012 05:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:51 Acronysis wrote:On May 04 2012 05:50 Seldentar wrote:On May 04 2012 05:47 Acronysis wrote: It seems hard to really make any fair judgements about eclypsia in this. how much do we even know about this mystress? Idk, give the team the benefit of the doubt until its proven otherwise, otherwise it can just screw up the team for possibly no reason.
They already fucked themselves before mystress said a word... What, do you mean the april fools? Among other things. Eclypsia has shown itself to have poor judgment when it comes to their players and their PR.
Do you mind filling me in? The only PR stunt i know of is the April Fools. And if that's it, it's not enough reason for me to hate them. While incredibly dumb, i can forgive them for that but it would be interesting if there were others.
|
I dont follow the SC2 scene to much anymore, but everything that I have seen Eclypsia do has been retarded.
|
On May 04 2012 05:56 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:54 windzor wrote:On May 04 2012 05:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 05:36 DeepElemBlues wrote:We're talking about potentially screwing with teams contracts and players livelihoods through ignorance and/or negligence. Eclypsia made an offer to a team, the team accepted it, Eclypsia contacted Quantic to arrange a release of the current contract, and then started to add more terms on to the agreement.
Coming back with additional terms to a contract after one side believes that some kind of agreement has been reached is a dick move but it happens all the time in business negotiations. Sides jockey for advantage until a final deal is hammered out. Unless the new terms are outrageous it usually doesn't cause much resentment. Trying to rile up a pitchfork brigade over it as some people (not you) seem to want to do is childish and counterproductive, as it generates a lot of light and usually very little heat, just drama-filled discussions at places like TL. It's a matter to be handled at the professional level. If Eclypsia can't act professionally then they will be starved out of the community by the other, truly professional organizations refusing to get involved with them. Depending on the laws of the country, the fact that Eclypsia already effected their existing contract could make the original offer binding. It would be like a company telling you to give your current employer 2 weeks notice, and then try to change their offer to you once you've done so. If it's under danish law, a verbal agreement is legal binding. As most of this information is properly handled via email and/or skype you also have proof. But that's IF it's under danish law. And nobody has the money to sue them, so discussing such stuff is stupid. Well, not entirely true. In many civil courts you're allowed to represent yourself (or your team in this case). It's generally not recommended, but certainly an option if the stakes are worth enough money for your time, but not enough to pay for a lawyer.
Lawyers are not the only thing you have to pay to sue people. And when you have to argue that an agreement is binding you don't want to do that yourself. So stupid to do...
|
On May 04 2012 05:57 Acronysis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 05:51 Acronysis wrote:On May 04 2012 05:50 Seldentar wrote:On May 04 2012 05:47 Acronysis wrote: It seems hard to really make any fair judgements about eclypsia in this. how much do we even know about this mystress? Idk, give the team the benefit of the doubt until its proven otherwise, otherwise it can just screw up the team for possibly no reason.
They already fucked themselves before mystress said a word... What, do you mean the april fools? Among other things. Eclypsia has shown itself to have poor judgment when it comes to their players and their PR. Do you mind filling me in? The only PR stunt i know of is the April Fools. And if that's it, it's not enough reason for me to hate them. While incredibly dumb, i can forgive them for that but it would be interesting if there were others.
http://www.eclypsia.com/forum/showthread.php?65-Post-your-best-memes-to-win-coaching
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14563748
|
originally thought acceptation wasn't a word, but it is, and it is older than the more commonly used 'acceptance'.
anywho, I have been wondering about Eclypsia for some time, they seemed to sort of come out of nowhere...? They don't seem to have their game plan very fleshed out
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
On May 04 2012 05:13 windzor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. I don't see where eC says that didn't happen. Can you please show me? What I read is eC saying everything Mysstress said was true, but in a "nicer" language.
I guess English isn't your language.
Eclypsia's statement basically said that they offered to pay MystresS however much amount of money UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, such as having certain amounts of viewers...etc.
That means, if MystresS agrees to the offer, MystresS will have to fulfill their end of it - to generate the number of viewers.
Right now, MystresS said no, we can't fulfill our end of the bargain, but we still want your money. How's that even fair?
The bottom line - Why would any sane team just give away money without asking for anything in return at all? WHY? THINK GUYS!! This ain't no charity guys.
|
On May 04 2012 06:07 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:13 windzor wrote:On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. I don't see where eC says that didn't happen. Can you please show me? What I read is eC saying everything Mysstress said was true, but in a "nicer" language. I guess English isn't your language. Eclypsia's statement basically said that they offered to pay MystresS however much amount of money UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, such as having certain amounts of viewers...etc. That means, if MystresS agrees to the offer, MystresS will have to fulfill their end of it - to generate the number of viewers. Right now, MystresS said no, we can't fulfill our end of the bargain, but we still want your money. How's that even fair? The bottom line - Why would any sane team just give away money without asking for anything in return at all? WHY? THINK GUYS!! This ain't no charity guys. Think? How about you just read. It makes things so much easier.
According to Mystress, the original condition was streaming from 10am to 10pm every day. I'm assuming that was joint for all 5 players, and not 12 hours of streaming every day for each player. Either way, that was the agreed upon term.
Does that sound like "nothing"?
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
On May 04 2012 06:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:07 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 05:13 windzor wrote:On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. I don't see where eC says that didn't happen. Can you please show me? What I read is eC saying everything Mysstress said was true, but in a "nicer" language. I guess English isn't your language. Eclypsia's statement basically said that they offered to pay MystresS however much amount of money UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, such as having certain amounts of viewers...etc. That means, if MystresS agrees to the offer, MystresS will have to fulfill their end of it - to generate the number of viewers. Right now, MystresS said no, we can't fulfill our end of the bargain, but we still want your money. How's that even fair? The bottom line - Why would any sane team just give away money without asking for anything in return at all? WHY? THINK GUYS!! This ain't no charity guys. Think? How about you just read. It makes things so much easier. According to Mystress, the original condition was streaming from 10am to 10pm every day. I'm assuming that was joint for all 5 players, and not 12 hours of streaming every day for each player. Either way, that was the agreed upon term. Does that sound like "nothing"?
*According to Mystress* Sorry, that just invalidated whatever you had to say.
|
interesting turn of events. I'm not sure which side to really take their word for as both sides probably have biases. Hopefully it'll all get fixed up without causing any more trouble to the team, players, or any other people involved.
|
On May 04 2012 06:14 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 06:07 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 05:13 windzor wrote:On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 04:38 Jono7272 wrote: So its pretty much a "hit this many viewers on your streams or don't get paid" kind of deal? Not cool. Eclypsia looking more and more like a very seedy organisation. Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. I don't see where eC says that didn't happen. Can you please show me? What I read is eC saying everything Mysstress said was true, but in a "nicer" language. I guess English isn't your language. Eclypsia's statement basically said that they offered to pay MystresS however much amount of money UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, such as having certain amounts of viewers...etc. That means, if MystresS agrees to the offer, MystresS will have to fulfill their end of it - to generate the number of viewers. Right now, MystresS said no, we can't fulfill our end of the bargain, but we still want your money. How's that even fair? The bottom line - Why would any sane team just give away money without asking for anything in return at all? WHY? THINK GUYS!! This ain't no charity guys. Think? How about you just read. It makes things so much easier. According to Mystress, the original condition was streaming from 10am to 10pm every day. I'm assuming that was joint for all 5 players, and not 12 hours of streaming every day for each player. Either way, that was the agreed upon term. Does that sound like "nothing"? *According to Mystress* Sorry, that just invalidated whatever you had to say.
Eclypsia isn't a seriously reliable source either.
Who knows who's right. The only thing I find fault with so far, based on the evidence, is Eclypsia should NOT have contacted Quantic if they didn't have an agreement. It sounds like Eclypsia seriously screwed them over if they didn't have an agreement in place.
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
On May 04 2012 06:15 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:14 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 06:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 06:07 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 05:13 windzor wrote:On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:40 nkr wrote: [quote]
Do you see anything wrong in Eclypsia wanting some ROI for the salary they offered? If they didn't like the deal then all they had to say was "no, thank you" and walk away. Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. I don't see where eC says that didn't happen. Can you please show me? What I read is eC saying everything Mysstress said was true, but in a "nicer" language. I guess English isn't your language. Eclypsia's statement basically said that they offered to pay MystresS however much amount of money UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, such as having certain amounts of viewers...etc. That means, if MystresS agrees to the offer, MystresS will have to fulfill their end of it - to generate the number of viewers. Right now, MystresS said no, we can't fulfill our end of the bargain, but we still want your money. How's that even fair? The bottom line - Why would any sane team just give away money without asking for anything in return at all? WHY? THINK GUYS!! This ain't no charity guys. Think? How about you just read. It makes things so much easier. According to Mystress, the original condition was streaming from 10am to 10pm every day. I'm assuming that was joint for all 5 players, and not 12 hours of streaming every day for each player. Either way, that was the agreed upon term. Does that sound like "nothing"? *According to Mystress* Sorry, that just invalidated whatever you had to say. Eclypsia isn't a seriously reliable source either. Who knows who's right. The only thing I find fault with so far, based on the evidence, is Eclypsia should NOT have contacted Quantic if they didn't have an agreement. It sounds like Eclypsia seriously screwed them over if they didn't have an agreement in place.
Exactly my point. You can't simply base your entire argument on one side of the story. It's just sheeping.
|
On May 04 2012 06:18 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:15 FairForever wrote:On May 04 2012 06:14 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 06:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 06:07 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 05:13 windzor wrote:On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote:On May 04 2012 04:43 Jono7272 wrote: [quote] Lol, hitting so many viewers is not something anyone can guarantee. Its not a reasonable demand. What happens the weeks the players do not get 5000+ viewers? They don't get paid?
If it was just, stream this many hours a week. That's fine. Stupid demands are stupid. If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes? Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever. There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. I don't see where eC says that didn't happen. Can you please show me? What I read is eC saying everything Mysstress said was true, but in a "nicer" language. I guess English isn't your language. Eclypsia's statement basically said that they offered to pay MystresS however much amount of money UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, such as having certain amounts of viewers...etc. That means, if MystresS agrees to the offer, MystresS will have to fulfill their end of it - to generate the number of viewers. Right now, MystresS said no, we can't fulfill our end of the bargain, but we still want your money. How's that even fair? The bottom line - Why would any sane team just give away money without asking for anything in return at all? WHY? THINK GUYS!! This ain't no charity guys. Think? How about you just read. It makes things so much easier. According to Mystress, the original condition was streaming from 10am to 10pm every day. I'm assuming that was joint for all 5 players, and not 12 hours of streaming every day for each player. Either way, that was the agreed upon term. Does that sound like "nothing"? *According to Mystress* Sorry, that just invalidated whatever you had to say. Eclypsia isn't a seriously reliable source either. Who knows who's right. The only thing I find fault with so far, based on the evidence, is Eclypsia should NOT have contacted Quantic if they didn't have an agreement. It sounds like Eclypsia seriously screwed them over if they didn't have an agreement in place. Exactly my point. You can't simply base your entire argument on one side of the story. It's just sheeping.
That being said Eclypsia still looks terribly bad for contacting Quantic if no agreement was in place.
Also their forum promotion seems like a huge joke and looks really bad...
|
I hardly see an issue here...
So, basically these people were contacted about a potential contract. Eclypsia offered some terms, and they sounded good. Then during what were essentially negotiations before any contract was signed, they couldn't come to an agreement. So, Eclypsia broke off the negotiations and that was the end of the matter. Now the other side comes and complains about not reaching a deal.
Even if what Eclypsia wanted was unrealistic, they didn't break any contract or anything. If anything, it feels like Mystress counted his chickens before they hatched and now is whining about it.
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
On May 04 2012 06:20 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:18 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 06:15 FairForever wrote:On May 04 2012 06:14 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 06:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 06:07 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 05:13 windzor wrote:On May 04 2012 05:06 nkr wrote:On May 04 2012 05:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 04 2012 04:52 Mallidon wrote: [quote]
If that is part of a contract they sign, then yes?
Anyway, people can argue the rights and wrongs from both sides until they are blue in the face, doesn't change anything. Yet more forum drama full of people jumping to conclusions and using ANYTHING to discredit a team/ individual or whatever.
There are far too many drama junkies in the 'Esports community'. And there are far too many forumgoers that can't seem to read. Try clicking on any of the articles before you start talking about drama junkies, like this one. Eclypsia refused to honour Quantic's existing contracts. Eclypsia started changing the terms of the agreement after pushing Quantic for contract releases. According to Eclypsia; that's not what happened. I don't see where eC says that didn't happen. Can you please show me? What I read is eC saying everything Mysstress said was true, but in a "nicer" language. I guess English isn't your language. Eclypsia's statement basically said that they offered to pay MystresS however much amount of money UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, such as having certain amounts of viewers...etc. That means, if MystresS agrees to the offer, MystresS will have to fulfill their end of it - to generate the number of viewers. Right now, MystresS said no, we can't fulfill our end of the bargain, but we still want your money. How's that even fair? The bottom line - Why would any sane team just give away money without asking for anything in return at all? WHY? THINK GUYS!! This ain't no charity guys. Think? How about you just read. It makes things so much easier. According to Mystress, the original condition was streaming from 10am to 10pm every day. I'm assuming that was joint for all 5 players, and not 12 hours of streaming every day for each player. Either way, that was the agreed upon term. Does that sound like "nothing"? *According to Mystress* Sorry, that just invalidated whatever you had to say. Eclypsia isn't a seriously reliable source either. Who knows who's right. The only thing I find fault with so far, based on the evidence, is Eclypsia should NOT have contacted Quantic if they didn't have an agreement. It sounds like Eclypsia seriously screwed them over if they didn't have an agreement in place. Exactly my point. You can't simply base your entire argument on one side of the story. It's just sheeping. That being said Eclypsia still looks terribly bad for contacting Quantic if no agreement was in place. Also their forum promotion seems like a huge joke and looks really bad...
I definitely agree with most of what you said, they don't look all proper, but that's pretty much beside the point.
Also, one other thing is that in the business world, companies contact each other all the time. They could present proposals for purchases, transfers, partnerships..etc, but there does NOT need to be a contract at the time of proposal, because that's just plain silly.
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
On May 04 2012 06:21 ticklishmusic wrote: I hardly see an issue here...
So, basically these people were contacted about a potential contract. Eclypsia offered some terms, and they sounded good. Then during what were essentially negotiations before any contract was signed, they couldn't come to an agreement. So, Eclypsia broke off the negotiations and that was the end of the matter. Now the other side comes and complains about not reaching a deal.
Even if what Eclypsia wanted was unrealistic, they didn't break any contract or anything. If anything, it feels like Mystress counted his chickens before they hatched and now is whining about it.
This is precisely how I see this drama, because contacts and negotiations are always made before reaching a contract that's mutually agreed upon. And obviously, there was no mutual agreement here.
|
It's all a PR stunt to generate hype for Eclypsia signing GosiTerran.
|
On May 04 2012 06:27 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:21 ticklishmusic wrote: I hardly see an issue here...
So, basically these people were contacted about a potential contract. Eclypsia offered some terms, and they sounded good. Then during what were essentially negotiations before any contract was signed, they couldn't come to an agreement. So, Eclypsia broke off the negotiations and that was the end of the matter. Now the other side comes and complains about not reaching a deal.
Even if what Eclypsia wanted was unrealistic, they didn't break any contract or anything. If anything, it feels like Mystress counted his chickens before they hatched and now is whining about it.
This is precisely how I see this drama, because contacts and negotiations are always made before reaching a contract that's mutually agreed upon. And obviously, there was no mutual agreement here.
Still they promised a certain deal and then suddenly kept lowering what they were giving, which is just weird to say the least.
|
I feel like Eclypsia fucked them selves over with this a lot. It wouldt surprise me if the disband in like a month IF Misstresses side of the story is accurate (although the press release of Eclypsia made me beleve that even more ...)
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
On May 04 2012 06:35 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:27 dacimvrl wrote:On May 04 2012 06:21 ticklishmusic wrote: I hardly see an issue here...
So, basically these people were contacted about a potential contract. Eclypsia offered some terms, and they sounded good. Then during what were essentially negotiations before any contract was signed, they couldn't come to an agreement. So, Eclypsia broke off the negotiations and that was the end of the matter. Now the other side comes and complains about not reaching a deal.
Even if what Eclypsia wanted was unrealistic, they didn't break any contract or anything. If anything, it feels like Mystress counted his chickens before they hatched and now is whining about it.
This is precisely how I see this drama, because contacts and negotiations are always made before reaching a contract that's mutually agreed upon. And obviously, there was no mutual agreement here. Still they promised a certain deal and then suddenly kept lowering what they were giving, which is just weird to say the least.
That's one side of the story. The other side of the story could simply be they made a sweet offer with strings attached, read, the negotiations.
For instance, a mom promised a kid she would take the kid to DisneyWorld on condition that the kid gets straight As. You should know what the rest of it looks like.
|
On May 04 2012 05:20 Alejandrisha wrote: it's not that they are hurting esports. they just suck at it. that and running a respectable storefront which is the name of the game right now. they probably won't get hurt in court for any of this but the situation just makes them look really unprofessional. if they were a protoss player, idra would call them gimmicky.
I think he does that to almost every protoss player in some form or another. Wait... weren't you a blue poster? What did you do, advocate for the standardization of Adelscott's no-gas build in PvP?
|
This is a joke. When Eclypsia released their "April fools" event, they were suppose to prove their legitimacy to the world, yet they have things like this making the front pages of e-sports news. This ex-Quantic dota2 team PAID out of their own pockets to have their contracts with Quantic end in order to join Eclpysia. I'm 100% certain, that a dota 2 team with a stable situation such as Quantic, would have no reason to leave and pay out of their own pockets unless Eclypsia made a substantial offer. for those of you who seem to side with Eclypsia, a pro team such as ex-Quantic are certainly not retarded and would not leave such a stable situation unless they were offered something better. This just makes Eclypsia look more and more unprofessional...
|
Not surprising if its true. Afterall, what kind of team doesnt even let their own players in on their fully retarded april fools stunt ?
Zzzzz
|
On May 04 2012 06:21 ticklishmusic wrote: I hardly see an issue here...
So, basically these people were contacted about a potential contract. Eclypsia offered some terms, and they sounded good. Then during what were essentially negotiations before any contract was signed, they couldn't come to an agreement. So, Eclypsia broke off the negotiations and that was the end of the matter. Now the other side comes and complains about not reaching a deal.
Even if what Eclypsia wanted was unrealistic, they didn't break any contract or anything. If anything, it feels like Mystress counted his chickens before they hatched and now is whining about it.
I think the dodgy line is about the " Oh that offer was for Na'vi"
Seems like according to Mystress, the terms that were offered by eC were accepted by ex-Quantic only for eC to track back and said, hold on that was not an offer for you. The offer and the terms were misleading.
Why state an offer for Na'vi if the whole time you are not negotiating with Na'vi. But of course we did not know the exact manner in which eC presented the offer so could have been just a misunderstanding / language issues instead of a team deliberately trying to mislead.
|
On May 04 2012 08:30 imMUTAble787 wrote: Not surprising if its true. Afterall, what kind of team doesnt even let their own players in on their fully retarded april fools stunt ?
Zzzzz O.O
People believe the joke because the players were in. Bring your fact checker to your usual technician please, it needs reparation.
|
Hope desrow will be fine T.T, probably one of the most talented players out there, and the sickest pick-up from Eclypsia by far.
|
On May 04 2012 08:36 dtz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:21 ticklishmusic wrote: I hardly see an issue here...
So, basically these people were contacted about a potential contract. Eclypsia offered some terms, and they sounded good. Then during what were essentially negotiations before any contract was signed, they couldn't come to an agreement. So, Eclypsia broke off the negotiations and that was the end of the matter. Now the other side comes and complains about not reaching a deal.
Even if what Eclypsia wanted was unrealistic, they didn't break any contract or anything. If anything, it feels like Mystress counted his chickens before they hatched and now is whining about it.
I think the dodgy line is about the " Oh that offer was for Na'vi" Seems like according to Mystress, the terms that were offered by eC were accepted by ex-Quantic only for eC to track back and said, hold on that was not an offer for you. The offer and the terms were misleading. Why state an offer for Na'vi if the whole time you are not negotiating with Na'vi. But of course we did not know the exact manner in which eC presented the offer so could have been just a misunderstanding / language issues instead of a team deliberately trying to mislead.
the real issue is, Quantic paid for their releases because of the promises from Eclypsia. For them to lure out a team like that and then go back on their word...thats extremely unprofessional. Do you think a team with a big, stable sponsor such as Quantic would leave said sponsor for another less than stellar and somewhat shady sponsor that is eclypsia?
|
Sounds like 2 incompetent businessmen trying to do business. eC has proven to be pretty industrially retarded, and the manager for this dota2 team didn't think it was a good idea to get anything on paper before jumping ship from QxG.
I don't think this should effect anyone's opinion, eC has already done enough for that.
|
Yet anothet reason why there needs to be a union for pro players; this coming from someone who is anti-union, too. Players get screwed around with far too much.
|
Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here.
|
|
On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote: Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here.
It went beyond negotiations. Eclypsia had already contacted Quantic to get the DotA2 players released from their current contract. In other words, there was already a set agreement in place where the DotA2 team would leave their current sponsor knowing the contract they would be signing afterwards.
This is like giving your current employer 2 weeks notice that you were quitting, and then the company that was hiring you started to add in additional clauses once it was clear you were leaving.
|
On May 04 2012 08:16 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:20 Alejandrisha wrote: it's not that they are hurting esports. they just suck at it. that and running a respectable storefront which is the name of the game right now. they probably won't get hurt in court for any of this but the situation just makes them look really unprofessional. if they were a protoss player, idra would call them gimmicky. I think he does that to almost every protoss player in some form or another. Wait... weren't you a blue poster? What did you do, advocate for the standardization of Adelscott's no-gas build in PvP? hahaha i think there is written some where in the books a law that restricts blue status from anyone who ever mentioned adelscott's no gas pvp opener and "stable" in the same sentence
|
On May 04 2012 09:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote: Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here. It went beyond negotiations. Eclypsia had already contacted Quantic to get the DotA2 players released from their current contract. In other words, there was already a set agreement in place where the DotA2 team would leave their current sponsor knowing the contract they would be signing afterwards. This is like giving your current employer 2 weeks notice that you were quitting, and then the company that was hiring you started to add in additional clauses once it was clear you were leaving.
I guess they thought that they had trapped ex-Quantic into negotiating on their terms. Not enough experience in the Dota scene rofl
|
Eclypsia is such a joke of a team.
|
On May 04 2012 09:00 ZenithM wrote: Hope desrow will be fine T.T, probably one of the most talented players out there, and the sickest pick-up from Eclypsia by far. Same! Hope his contract doesn't rely on getting viewers as well.. Why he doesn't hit 10k+ I don't know
|
On May 04 2012 04:01 crms wrote: I just find it to be down right hilarious that the community pitchforks to get people fired, emails sponsors etc., after rage induced ladder matches but an actual 'esports' company hosts its very own contest in which community members are encouraged to bash their players and it goes relatively unnoticed.
It certainly was noticed. Though, the idea was so retarded, the mods fortunately closed the thread, before it really got out of hand: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330889
Now, another fail on their part (if all the accusations are true). "Ticlypsia" is slowly sinking... Too bad for the players on the team, I hope for the best.
|
Wait, wait, wait. Shouldn't we wait for eC's side of the story (since I don't believe they have released a statement) before making accusations? Let's not be hasty now
|
On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote: Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here. A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying.
If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding.
In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them.
Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather.
|
On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote: Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here. A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying. If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding. In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them. Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather.
See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization?
|
On May 04 2012 13:49 MDMA_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote: Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here. A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying. If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding. In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them. Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather. See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization?
Wouldn't be the first time a player doesn't read the contract when he joins a team. (destiny)
|
On May 04 2012 13:49 MDMA_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote: Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here. A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying. If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding. In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them. Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather. See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization?
Dunno about other countries, but in the UK a verbal contract is legally binding.
Anyway the two possibilities here are: a) Mystress is telling the truth, they came to an agreement, left Quantic, and Eclipsia pulled the rug out under them by adding new, not-agreed-on conditions, or b) Eclipsia is telling the truth, they never came to any agreement, Mystress etc left Quantic with no agreement, to begin negotiations, and didn't like the conditions in the agreement
I'm inclined to believe Mystress's side here, since nobody in sports has ever been foolish enough to leave their current contract before negotiating a new one (especially when that destroys any negotiating power they may have had), and because of Eclipsia's frankly terrible history in esports.
|
Eclypsia's response looks like it's something of a non-response.
They mention conditions and that Mystress' team didn't feel they could live up to the conditions, but they don't really elaborate on what parts of Mystress's list of conditions was true or false. Also, there's the implication that all of these unspecified conditions were put forward before announcing that the team was joining eC, but again nothing is stated explicitly.
I would say that, if Mystress had been dishonest about the negotiation process, Eclypsia would have made a more explicit statement about the facts she misrepresented. I still hope that all of this will turn out to have been a huge misunderstanding.
|
never heard of eclypsia before, in fact i've already forgotten.. something... what?
|
On May 04 2012 19:25 dmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 13:49 MDMA_ wrote:On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote: Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here. A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying. If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding. In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them. Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather. See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization? Dunno about other countries, but in the UK a verbal contract is legally binding. Anyway the two possibilities here are: a) Mystress is telling the truth, they came to an agreement, left Quantic, and Eclipsia pulled the rug out under them by adding new, not-agreed-on conditions, or b) Eclipsia is telling the truth, they never came to any agreement, Mystress etc left Quantic with no agreement, to begin negotiations, and didn't like the conditions in the agreement I'm inclined to believe Mystress's side here, since nobody in sports has ever been foolish enough to leave their current contract before negotiating a new one (especially when that destroys any negotiating power they may have had), and because of Eclipsia's frankly terrible history in esports.
Yeah as far as i know, in Canada verbal contracts (emails, facebook any means of communication) is legally binding if one party acts on those contracts legally. In this case, its pretty clear that ex-Quantic acted financially, by paying for the release fees to be released from their quantic contracts. I am totally in agreement with you, i highly doubt a stable team would leave such a huge and well known e-sports entity such as Quantic.
|
On May 05 2012 14:33 MDMA_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 19:25 dmfg wrote:On May 04 2012 13:49 MDMA_ wrote:On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote: Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here. A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying. If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding. In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them. Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather. See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization? Dunno about other countries, but in the UK a verbal contract is legally binding. Anyway the two possibilities here are: a) Mystress is telling the truth, they came to an agreement, left Quantic, and Eclipsia pulled the rug out under them by adding new, not-agreed-on conditions, or b) Eclipsia is telling the truth, they never came to any agreement, Mystress etc left Quantic with no agreement, to begin negotiations, and didn't like the conditions in the agreement I'm inclined to believe Mystress's side here, since nobody in sports has ever been foolish enough to leave their current contract before negotiating a new one (especially when that destroys any negotiating power they may have had), and because of Eclipsia's frankly terrible history in esports. Yeah as far as i know, in Canada verbal contracts (emails, facebook any means of communication) is legally binding if one party acts on those contracts legally. In this case, its pretty clear that ex-Quantic acted financially, by paying for the release fees to be released from their quantic contracts. I am totally in agreement with you, i highly doubt a stable team would leave such a huge and well known e-sports entity such as Quantic. http://www.eclypsia.com/en/news-207.html note the line "Our Dota 2 team is playing tonight at 7:00 pm versus compLexity Gaming for The Premier League. You can follow the match right here !" right at the end. quite clearly eclypsia has already considered the team as theirs.
|
Why would they forbid the use of IRC?..
|
On May 05 2012 19:40 Genome852 wrote: Why would they forbid the use of IRC?.. Why did they think that a Meme competition would be a good idea? Honestly Eclypsia is the only team that I really dislike. And seeing as they don't have any sponsors or the like, I don't think they will last long. Their management really need to step it up hard.
|
I'm not surprised. Didn't like the team since their "April Fools"
|
On May 06 2012 01:13 JackDragon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 19:40 Genome852 wrote: Why would they forbid the use of IRC?.. Why did they think that a Meme competition would be a good idea? Honestly Eclypsia is the only team that I really dislike. And seeing as they don't have any sponsors or the like, I don't think they will last long. Their management really need to step it up hard.
I agree with everything you said and at this point I don't know that it's possible for their management to step it up. Honestly they seem like a bunch of immature trolls...
|
Releasing a statement like that shows that Eclypsia has a lot to learn about public relations. They aren't going to get any support with that kind of tone. How I read the situation is that Eclypsia got into a verbal agreement which they realized they didn't want and tried to back out of in a strange round-about way. Clearly not the right move on their part but everyone knows that 5k viewers is a gigantic number and putting up that kind of requirement is as good as telling the players to go screw themselves.
|
China6271 Posts
Seriously, Welmu's April Fools joke aoubt Eclypsia is a bad one. The guy who figured out that idea would be fire on any other team.
|
I have no idea how people like MystresS think going public with this kind of stuff helps. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, but by going public, every decent team or oranisation will not consider doing business with someone who goes public with delicate stuff.
|
United States832 Posts
I have no idea how people like MystresS think going public with this kind of stuff helps. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, but by going public, every decent team or oranisation will not consider doing business with someone who goes public with delicate stuff. I don't know if that's true. Stuff like this has happened before and those players got picked up by good teams. I think a team that knows that they treat their players fairly won't be worried about players that aren't afraid to hold their bosses accountable.
|
5k viewers for DotA2? Completely unrealistic at this point.
|
Also do you guys remember the deal with Verdi? It was his fault for not checking for contract but still he didn't get paid by EC.
|
So it wasn't an april fools joke..?
I'm still confused about the last ordeal.
|
Welcome to the world of Pro gaming. Sad after so many years Organizations still lie about these things.
|
I don't think words can describe how much I dislike this team....
|
if they agreed on the conditions that eclypsia wanted and didn't fulfill them it's their fault not eclypsias fault...
a contract is still a contract and you don't sign a contract if you know you can't fulfill it
|
On May 06 2012 08:45 sVnteen wrote: if they agreed on the conditions that eclypsia wanted and didn't fulfill them it's their fault not eclypsias fault...
a contract is still a contract and you don't sign a contract if you know you can't fulfill it Yes, but they didn't deny what Mystress said, that it wasn't in the original contract, which clearly means it wasn't. So therefore they added it in after the contract was done, and then ended it for that.
I've lost all my (non-existant) respect for Eclypsia.
|
On May 06 2012 08:45 sVnteen wrote: if they agreed on the conditions that eclypsia wanted and didn't fulfill them it's their fault not eclypsias fault...
a contract is still a contract and you don't sign a contract if you know you can't fulfill it The problem is more that eclypsia changed the contracts right before they were to change it, but after they already was in contact witch quantic about releasing the dota team. Thus more or less trying to force the dota team to accept very bad terms since they burned the bridges behind them. No contract was ever signed (as far as I know)
|
you know that when they haven't completely shut down these accusations they are true.
|
On May 05 2012 14:33 MDMA_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 19:25 dmfg wrote:On May 04 2012 13:49 MDMA_ wrote:On May 04 2012 11:02 lisward wrote:On May 04 2012 09:47 Doodsmack wrote: Someone correct me if I have the facts wrong, but am I right that these dota2 players were never signed? In other words they were just in contract negotiations and then the negotiations ended? If that's the case, then isn't this whole thread about some Dota 2 players who just didn't get the deal they wanted and now are complaining about it? You could criticize Eclypsia for poor contract negotiation skills, but if I have the facts right then there is objectively no wrongdoing here. A contract does not need to be written as long as you can prove that there was offer and acceptance, consideration, and intent to create legal obligations. But it's hard to judge what's going on here. From what I can tell someone here is lying. If what the Dota2 team said is true, they were given an offer which they accepted in return for doing something (hitting a certain number I'd viewers/stream time) This kind of verbal agreement in most cases can be considered legally binding. In any contract, each party in a contract must offer consideration, in other words, promise something of value (how much value doesn't matter, so long as it has value. Service/Money etc). According to Eclypsia, the Danish Dota 2 team could not meet the promises that they made to them (could be a promise to hit and maintain a certain number of viewers or stream for a certain stated period). If that's true, then Eclypsia was in the right to end the relationship between both of them. Of course then again everything I said could mean nothing if there was clearly no intention on Eclypsia's side to make anything legally binding, so it's really difficult to understand what's going on without a better picture, but in my point of view, I think that this was more of the dota2 manager not understanding how contracts work, or business rather. See the issue i see here is, even though there seems to have been no contracts signed the agreement should/is legally binding because exQuantic acted financially based on the previous agreement. Even if this contract was in pieces through email, chat facebook whatever the fuck communication was used doesnt matter, it is legally binding simply because quantic acted on this information financially AFAIK. Lets be honest though, would any team/player terminate their current contract without first obtaining a second? Even if it does seem that the Dota2 is being foolish/greedy, havent they been tricked by this organization? Dunno about other countries, but in the UK a verbal contract is legally binding. Anyway the two possibilities here are: a) Mystress is telling the truth, they came to an agreement, left Quantic, and Eclipsia pulled the rug out under them by adding new, not-agreed-on conditions, or b) Eclipsia is telling the truth, they never came to any agreement, Mystress etc left Quantic with no agreement, to begin negotiations, and didn't like the conditions in the agreement I'm inclined to believe Mystress's side here, since nobody in sports has ever been foolish enough to leave their current contract before negotiating a new one (especially when that destroys any negotiating power they may have had), and because of Eclipsia's frankly terrible history in esports. Yeah as far as i know, in Canada verbal contracts (emails, facebook any means of communication) is legally binding if one party acts on those contracts legally. In this case, its pretty clear that ex-Quantic acted financially, by paying for the release fees to be released from their quantic contracts. I am totally in agreement with you, i highly doubt a stable team would leave such a huge and well known e-sports entity such as Quantic.
Under US laws, emails and other electronic forms of communication are not considered verbal, but written contracts. Verbal is strictly verbal. Verbal contracts can be binding in many situations, but there are others (such as those defined by the Statute of Frauds) that require a written contract.
|
Fun fact; "Verbal contract" is a contract expressed in words, "Oral contract" is one that's not written down. Also, Liquipedia says that Eclypsia is based in the UK, and one article I found about the oral contract law there (on Gilligham Solicitors' website, http://www.gillhams.com/articles/325.cfm) says that "It is immaterial whether the contract is verbal, in writing, or partially verbal and partially written, although common sense says that recording the agreement in writing creates a document that may be referred to for its terms in the event of a dispute between the parties" and that "In deciding whether a contract is complete, a court will consider a contract to be formed when, from the viewpoint of an officious bystander, the parties have agreed in the same terms on the same subject matter. "
I'd say that Eclypsia fulfilled the latter condition on their end when they announced that they are signing the team.
|
wow i am having a really hard time finding any good in this team, they obviously dont know anything about the community and ahve no idea how they should be acting
|
They think you can make money off esports>
|
Lol I thought someone had bumped the April Fool's date, then I saw the day. I guess they weren't as promising as everyone thought...
|
This is another scary example of what its like out there for players.
|
I heard that Eclypsia couldn't pay the players because they spent all the sponsorship $ to feed desRow so he wouldn't eat the Koreans
User was warned for this post
|
Can anyone tell me what did Eclypsia do for april's fool? Everyone seems to know except me
|
Never heard of the meme contest Eclypsia hosted but wow, what a joke? This team is garbage and deserves to be run into the ground.
|
Eclypsia gives me the impression of a joke team
|
|
On May 13 2012 03:52 Mondieu wrote:Can anyone tell me what did Eclypsia do for april's fool? Everyone seems to know except me ironically enough they faked the scenario thats happening right now rofl
|
On May 13 2012 04:01 teddyoojo wrote: ironically enough they faked the scenario thats happening right now rofl
kinda... although this has less to do with player compensation and more to do with team aquisition procedures.
|
On May 13 2012 04:01 teddyoojo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 03:52 Mondieu wrote:Can anyone tell me what did Eclypsia do for april's fool? Everyone seems to know except me ironically enough they faked the scenario thats happening right now rofl maybe that scenario was real back then, and the team owner paid some money to make players shut up and claim it was an april's fool joke.
not too unreasonable.
|
Whatever the case, they had their month or two of glory and won't be remaining relevant for much longer.
|
and the funny thing is that the guy who was part of the joke (Welmu) is still part of the team when everyone else in the international roster has left
|
On May 13 2012 03:47 MysteryTerran wrote: I heard that Eclypsia couldn't pay the players because they spent all the sponsorship $ to feed desRow so he wouldn't eat the Koreans
User was warned for this post
POST OF THE YEAR (no offence but it was good )
User was warned for this post
|
Are these people trying to kill e-sports? They're pretty good at it, now everyone will be paranoid when a new team appears.... Good luck to desrow artist and scarlett they were finally on a team and now team less...again..... excluding scarlett.
|
eclypsia ruining esports?
|
On May 13 2012 05:35 dgwow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 03:47 MysteryTerran wrote: I heard that Eclypsia couldn't pay the players because they spent all the sponsorship $ to feed desRow so he wouldn't eat the Koreans
User was warned for this post POST OF THE YEAR (no offence but it was good )
Yeah I'm not gonna lie I lol'd. In any case what the heck is going on with this team? Shady acquisitions/payment, their financial backing seems odd as well from what I read in the other thread about the latest departures, and their April fool's joke was classless at best. Will we ever know what's happening behind the closed doors of this organization?
|
Unfortunately this kind of stuff has been going on for the past 10 years or so in western eSports.
|
How did I know that this was going to happen with Eclypsia. I knew something was up with them!
|
|
|
|