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Well, maybe when a silver or a bronze leaguer comes to TL and post some opinion about the game the ppl needs to be more friendly. What i see is: "- Oh man, u r not masters, so u r not in a DECENT lvl, sry, go post in another forum." So...this ppl thinks if they get some better league they will have more e-penis to express their opinion. Sorry guys, but this forum indirectly is encouraging this type of service. Think about it
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On July 17 2012 01:07 Cubu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 01:06 Prox wrote:On July 17 2012 01:03 Cubu wrote: Wow if naama doesn't do anything about this, i will have no respect for him. I remember a while back, select was doing this and the community raised concerns about it and in he admitted his mistake and stopped leveling other people's accounts for money. I think what you mean is: Wow if this thread doesn't shape up, i will have no respect for all the people accusing Naama without solid proof for no apparent reason. Read the OP please.
Except even if he is, I don't think most of the community cares. This is just another "smurf" account (which no one complains about smurfs) that ends up earning them some extra money. I think the people acting like this matters and is a big deal are in the minority.
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If the free market supports progamers leveling accounts, I personally don't have a problem with it. Whoever pays for it will never be able to play 1v1s on it without getitng stomped, so why do I care? For a stupid orange star?
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This isn't wrong to do and doesn't hurt anyone. The OPs reasons that they do hurt people aren't very good. Aspiring pros trying to break into the scene can't use grandmaster league as a show of accomplishment because it isn't one. What they need are replays demonstrating ability against skilled opponents, not a league. All of his other reasons are conjectures that people who buy leveling are people who hack. Well then, go after the hacking, not against non-hacking.
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GM is just full of smurfs anyway. A few extra won't hurt. They are cheating the ladder, not the game.
The Blizzard ladder is irrelevent anyway since the best way to get noticed as an up and coming player is to do well in an tournament.
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After thoroughly reading the OP I still don't see any issue with account leveling. Unless you want players like Naama to give up pro-gaming this is something a lot of pro-gamers have to do. Not every pro can be winning tournaments and getting money and many don't play for salary leaving them with 0 income. I think the only people who have problems with this are high masters players thinking "damn if only there weren't smurfs and accounts that are leveled, then I'd have a shot at grandmasters," which I think is god awful reasoning to call a player like Naama out on.
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i have no problem with it. It basically acts like a smurf for the pro, and its a way for them to make money. Keep trucking naama
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On July 17 2012 01:40 aRyuujin wrote: i have no problem with it. It basically acts like a smurf for the pro, and its a way for them to make money. Keep trucking naama Yeah he beat mvp at HSC he's better now then ever before.
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yeah pro gamer gets more practice and money, people who play the person who receives the account later get free wins assuming they got overlevelled
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To those who don't care, let me ask you this: How is this /any/ different from paying someone to take your SATs for you? It's vaguely similar to become a professional gamer. There are many different ways to get exposure in the Starcraft scene, and one of the ways is to work your way to becoming GM. At the very least, it gives local recognition.
Regarding the SAT-analogy: YES, there's a smart kid who probably deserves to have more money. YES, these tests don't really mean much anyways (we all know kids who are extremely brilliant but just didn't score well on the SATs). YES, only idiots would pay for a service like this. YES, these tests are only a fraction of what you need to achieve your goal (in the case of Starcraft: becoming profession. In the case of education: getting into a good college). And YES, a lot of us (college-kids) have thought about tutoring high school kids for quick-money, and we just need to wave our SAT scores around to convince others we're a qualified tutor.
But would you really not mind if this was a common phenomeon? And if you do (and I'll imagine that most of us would mind), how is selling GM accounts that drastically different from offering to take someone else's SAT? Is it ridicious to want a more legitimate Starcraft ladder?
I (obviously) don't know how an ideal GM system would be implemented (with updating, and MMR-decay and whatnot). But that being said, takes one mindset to say "An ideal GM is hard to make," and a completely different mindset to say "Well the GM system is broken anyways, so who the fuck cares?" And I seriously hope that everyone who said they were part of the latter truely meant to say they were part of the former.
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On July 17 2012 01:43 uikos wrote: To those who don't care, let me ask you this: How is this /any/ different from paying someone to take your SATs for you? It's vaguely similar to become a professional gamer. There are many different ways to get exposure in the Starcraft scene, and one of the ways is to work your way to becoming GM. At the very least, it gives local recognition.
Regarding the SAT-analogy: YES, there's a smart kid who probably deserves to have more money. YES, these tests don't really mean much anyways (we all know kids who are extremely brilliant but just didn't score well on the SATs). YES, only idiots would pay for a service like this. YES, these tests are only a fraction of what you need to achieve your goal (in the case of Starcraft: becoming profession. In the case of education: getting into a good college). And YES, a lot of us (college-kids) have thought about tutoring high school kids for quick-money, and we just need to wave our SAT scores around to convince others we're a qualified tutor.
But would you really not mind if this was a common phenomeon? And if you do (and I'll imagine that most of us would mind), how is selling GM accounts that drastically different from offering to take someone else's SAT? Is it ridicious to want a more legitimate Starcraft ladder?
I (obviously) don't know how an ideal GM system would be implemented (with updating, and MMR-decay and whatnot). But that being said, takes one mindset to say "An ideal GM is hard to make," and a completely different mindset to say "Well the GM system is broken anyways, so who the fuck cares?" And I seriously hope that everyone who said they were part of the latter truely meant to say they were part of the former. Because nobody cares about your ladder rank except for yourself.
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On July 17 2012 01:43 uikos wrote: To those who don't care, let me ask you this: How is this /any/ different from paying someone to take your SATs for you? It's vaguely similar to become a professional gamer. There are many different ways to get exposure in the Starcraft scene, and one of the ways is to work your way to becoming GM. At the very least, it gives local recognition.
Regarding the SAT-analogy: YES, there's a smart kid who probably deserves to have more money. YES, these tests don't really mean much anyways (we all know kids who are extremely brilliant but just didn't score well on the SATs). YES, only idiots would pay for a service like this. YES, these tests are only a fraction of what you need to achieve your goal (in the case of Starcraft: becoming profession. In the case of education: getting into a good college). And YES, a lot of us (college-kids) have thought about tutoring high school kids for quick-money, and we just need to wave our SAT scores around to convince others we're a qualified tutor.
But would you really not mind if this was a common phenomeon? And if you do (and I'll imagine that most of us would mind), how is selling GM accounts that drastically different from offering to take someone else's SAT? Is it ridicious to want a more legitimate Starcraft ladder?
I (obviously) don't know how an ideal GM system would be implemented (with updating, and MMR-decay and whatnot). But that being said, takes one mindset to say "An ideal GM is hard to make," and a completely different mindset to say "Well the GM system is broken anyways, so who the fuck cares?" And I seriously hope that everyone who said they were part of the latter truely meant to say they were part of the former.
The difference here is that SAT scores are permanent, GM status is only going to last these people maybe 2 weeks at most? It's an entirely different concept honestly. This comparison doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Also comparing the legitimacy of a student's educational record with that of a player's gaming status? I don't think the two are on nearly the same level of significance.
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On July 16 2012 16:41 Le BucheRON wrote: having someone level your account is just sad. Stupid and sad. That's all. No big deal. true it's just patetic but nothing more, why anyone will care. And the only thing will make me hate progamers will be match fixing :s
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there are people legitimately struggling to get into GM and there is also a Blizzard tournament for GM players.
so, how is it not a big deal?
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Just to voice an opinion, this is bad and should be punished. Not acceptable practice from so called "PROgamers".
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I agree, for the most part, with OP.
To condone this simply because pro gamers are underpaid is ludicrous.
Poll please, would like to know more opinions.
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On July 17 2012 01:45 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 01:43 uikos wrote: To those who don't care, let me ask you this: How is this /any/ different from paying someone to take your SATs for you? It's vaguely similar to become a professional gamer. There are many different ways to get exposure in the Starcraft scene, and one of the ways is to work your way to becoming GM. At the very least, it gives local recognition.
Regarding the SAT-analogy: YES, there's a smart kid who probably deserves to have more money. YES, these tests don't really mean much anyways (we all know kids who are extremely brilliant but just didn't score well on the SATs). YES, only idiots would pay for a service like this. YES, these tests are only a fraction of what you need to achieve your goal (in the case of Starcraft: becoming profession. In the case of education: getting into a good college). And YES, a lot of us (college-kids) have thought about tutoring high school kids for quick-money, and we just need to wave our SAT scores around to convince others we're a qualified tutor.
But would you really not mind if this was a common phenomeon? And if you do (and I'll imagine that most of us would mind), how is selling GM accounts that drastically different from offering to take someone else's SAT? Is it ridicious to want a more legitimate Starcraft ladder?
I (obviously) don't know how an ideal GM system would be implemented (with updating, and MMR-decay and whatnot). But that being said, takes one mindset to say "An ideal GM is hard to make," and a completely different mindset to say "Well the GM system is broken anyways, so who the fuck cares?" And I seriously hope that everyone who said they were part of the latter truely meant to say they were part of the former. Because nobody cares about your ladder rank except for yourself. Not true, a lot of people look at ladder rank as a measure of ability.
How many times have people said 'X caster sucks, they're only in Y league'?
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On July 17 2012 01:43 uikos wrote: To those who don't care, let me ask you this: How is this /any/ different from paying someone to take your SATs for you? It's vaguely similar to become a professional gamer. There are many different ways to get exposure in the Starcraft scene, and one of the ways is to work your way to becoming GM. At the very least, it gives local recognition.
Regarding the SAT-analogy: YES, there's a smart kid who probably deserves to have more money. YES, these tests don't really mean much anyways (we all know kids who are extremely brilliant but just didn't score well on the SATs). YES, only idiots would pay for a service like this. YES, these tests are only a fraction of what you need to achieve your goal (in the case of Starcraft: becoming profession. In the case of education: getting into a good college). And YES, a lot of us (college-kids) have thought about tutoring high school kids for quick-money, and we just need to wave our SAT scores around to convince others we're a qualified tutor.
But would you really not mind if this was a common phenomeon? And if you do (and I'll imagine that most of us would mind), how is selling GM accounts that drastically different from offering to take someone else's SAT? Is it ridicious to want a more legitimate Starcraft ladder?
I (obviously) don't know how an ideal GM system would be implemented (with updating, and MMR-decay and whatnot). But that being said, takes one mindset to say "An ideal GM is hard to make," and a completely different mindset to say "Well the GM system is broken anyways, so who the fuck cares?" And I seriously hope that everyone who said they were part of the latter truely meant to say they were part of the former.
Come on now, that comparison is beyond silly. Even if GM were an accurate representation of the Top200 players on a given server (which it isn't), there'd still be smurfs, shared accounts, and a bunch of other stuff that never comes into play with standardized tests. Go on sc2ranks, and take a look at Korean GM, you'll see barcode players making up about half of it, and a lot of these accounts are shared between a whole team for the purpose of anonymous practice. The ladder has no integrity in the way that you and a bunch of other people would want it to, and you don' gain recognition by getting into GM. You gain recognition by placing high in online tournaments - that's how a ton of good European players began their career, the likes of Nerchio and Stephano included.
So yeah, I really don't care if this becomes a common phenomenon (which I doubt it will), and as a mid-Masters player on EU, I don't feel as if it particularly affects me. I'm actually somewhat happy to be able to play against pros levelling up their smurfs occasionally.
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On July 17 2012 01:56 ilbh wrote: there are people legitimately struggling to get into GM and there is also a Blizzard tournament for GM players.
so, how is it not a big deal? Which tournament is there for gm players?
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On July 17 2012 01:43 uikos wrote: To those who don't care, let me ask you this: How is this /any/ different from paying someone to take your SATs for you? It's vaguely similar to become a professional gamer. There are many different ways to get exposure in the Starcraft scene, and one of the ways is to work your way to becoming GM. At the very least, it gives local recognition.
Regarding the SAT-analogy: YES, there's a smart kid who probably deserves to have more money. YES, these tests don't really mean much anyways (we all know kids who are extremely brilliant but just didn't score well on the SATs). YES, only idiots would pay for a service like this. YES, these tests are only a fraction of what you need to achieve your goal (in the case of Starcraft: becoming profession. In the case of education: getting into a good college). And YES, a lot of us (college-kids) have thought about tutoring high school kids for quick-money, and we just need to wave our SAT scores around to convince others we're a qualified tutor.
But would you really not mind if this was a common phenomeon? And if you do (and I'll imagine that most of us would mind), how is selling GM accounts that drastically different from offering to take someone else's SAT? Is it ridicious to want a more legitimate Starcraft ladder?
I (obviously) don't know how an ideal GM system would be implemented (with updating, and MMR-decay and whatnot). But that being said, takes one mindset to say "An ideal GM is hard to make," and a completely different mindset to say "Well the GM system is broken anyways, so who the fuck cares?" And I seriously hope that everyone who said they were part of the latter truely meant to say they were part of the former.
Nope, still don't care. Ladder ranking is, has always been, and will always be for that level of player, pointless. What teams are looking at your name being on GM? They will want to test you, watch replays, see you in tournaments. For overall scene recognition being on GM gets you nothing either, you have to get your name out with stream and tournaments. So really it is just for you to feel good about yourself, but Smurf accounts knock you out anyways. If you truly deserve to be in GM then you will be
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