The Patch 1.5.0 release patch notes has just emerged from what looks like to be the embedded launcher PN page here
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.5.0
General
New Battle.net UI The Battle.net user interface has been completely refreshed with a new look and feel. The StarCraft II Arcade has arrived! To make way for this new feature, significant changes have been made to the StarCraft II user interface. Two new buttons have been added: the Arcade button, which will act as a portal to a brand new custom games experience that features dramatic improvements in finding, rating and playing custom games, and the StarCraft II button, which will provide access to classic single player and multiplayer experiences, including the StarCraft II campaign, multiplayer ladder, melee maps and more. Arcade Button: A new Arcade button has been added to the main Battle.net navigation panel at the top-left of the user interface. Custom games once found in the Custom Games interface will now be found here with an improved interface and tools. Players now have more flexibility to find, play, and review custom games, more quickly and easily than ever before. The Spotlight page displays new or up-and-coming games. Players can visit the Spotlight to browse featured games, new games on the rise, and top-rated games as reviewed by the community. Players can search for games based on genre, popularity, star ratings, newness, and recent spikes in popularity. Each custom game in the Arcade is represented by a game icon. The game icon contains a large game image (provided by the creator), and includes the game's name and star rating. Hovering over the icon displays the game description. Clicking on a game icon brings players into the Game Info page, the main portal for each game in the Arcade. This page contains summarized information about a custom game, including a description, screenshots, play instructions, reviews, and other information. The Game Info page consists of several sections: Overview: This contains the game description and a set of screenshots that show off the action. How to Play: This is where players will find instructions (basic and advanced) and how to win. There is also space for additional images to supplement the game instructions. Patch Notes: This is where the game creator can list updates that have been made to the game, so that players can see how the game is growing and improving. Review: After playing, players can give a game a star rating and enter a text review. Once enough ratings have been submitted, the game receives an Average Star Rating that displays on the game icon. Players can also mark other players' reviews as "Helpful" which will ensure that the best reviews rise to the top. Tutorial: Game creators can now publish tutorials for their creations. If a tutorial exists for a game, a "Play Tutorial" button will appear on the Game Info Page, which can be clicked to immediately launch the tutorial. There is now a "Join Chat" button on the Game Info Page that allows players to join a channel named after that Arcade game. The new Open Games List displays games that have players, but aren't full and ready to start yet. This should help players identify active games and find partners or opponents more easily. StarCraft Button The StarCraft II multiplayer ladder, melee games and other classic gameplay options have been moved to a separate StarCraft II button. The StarCraft button has been reorganized to consolidate all single player and multiplayer StarCraft II play types in one easy-to-navigate screen. Players can now access the following from a single unified StarCraft screen: Multiplayer: Quick Match, Coop vs. A.I., Team Games, and Melee Custom Games Single Player: Campaign, Challenges, and Versus A.I. New Streaming Launcher A new StarCraft II Launcher will allow game data to stream during play. This should reduce download, install, and patching times. We look forward to your feedback on the new launcher! Please visit the StarCraft II forums to share your thoughts. Graphics Improvements Many physics optimizations have been across the entire game Texture and resources management have been greatly improved, and now use less overall memory StarCraft II is now significantly more thorough in pre-loading content, resulting in less in-game stutter Custom games now load shaders during the loading screen rather than in-game, resulting in less stuttering caused by shader generation The fog of war has been reworked to more accurately display units that are positioned near the edge of the fog
User Interface
General Maximum selection size has been increased to 500, up from 255. Items can now be instantly sold by pressing the Control + Right-Click key combination. Instant items can now be used while in targeting mode without canceling targeting in custom games. Items can now display range indicators and AoE targeting cursors when in target mode in custom games. Inventory commands (Use, Move, and Pawn) are now available as custom hotkeys in custom games. Alliance colors have been updated to propagate to the entire UI. A new in-game pathing display has been added that shows the path a unit will take on the mini-map. Battle.net The News & Community and Help Buttons have been removed from the main navigation panel to simplify the display. These can now be accessed from the Home Screen. The Player Profile Screen has been reorganized to streamline the overall display of profile information. From this screen, players can access their Profile Summary, Career Summary, Match History, Arcade Reviews, and Rewards. New statistics have been added to the Player Profile: Games Played This Season, Most Played Mode, and Total Career games. Certain statistics that were previously shown on the Player Profile screen have now been consolidated into the Career Summary screen. Career Summary has been moved from the Leagues & Ladders screen into the Player Profile screen. The Help Screen is now accessible from the Home Screen instead of the navigation panel. Tutorials are now more appropriately accessible from the StarCraft menu. A new Join Chat button has been added. A new "Quick Nav" tab has been added to the bottom-left corner of the Battle.net UI. This is a customizable dashboard that allows players to bind up to five Battle.net screens to the F1-F5 keyboard shortcuts for speedier navigation. The following new slash commands have been added: Available anywhere on Battle.net: /afk : puts the player into AFK status /close : closes the focused chat window /help : displays available /slash commands /min : minimizes the focused chat window /max : maximizes the focused chat window /restore : returns the focused chat window to default position and size Available only in private chat with another player: /dnd : puts the players into DND status /partyinvite : invites the targeted player to a party /partykick : removes the targeted player from party /block : blocks the targeted player /unblock : unblocks the targeted player /addfriend : adds the targeted player as a character friend /removefriend : removes the targeted player as a friend /profile : opens the profile page for targeted player /report : opens the Report Player dialog for targeted player /friendnote : opens the Friend Note dialog for targeted player Players who have enabled the "Only allow friends to send me chat messages" option can now receive responses back from non-friends if they initiate the chat. The ability to chat with non-friended players will end if either player logs out, or if no conversation occurs for five minutes.
General New support has been added for control over frames, portraits, status bars, text, Trigger Dialogs, and more. Full details, tips, and tutorials are in the process of being created to help game creators take full advantage of these tools. Some of these changes are: New "Nineslice" Border Method for additional image border support. Support has been added for custom unit status bars. Support has been added to allow mod makers to control the UI for observers, and to control the behavior of individual dialog items when observing. Support has been added for bulleted lists for use in Trigger Dialogs New word wrapping tags for use in Trigger Dialogs have been added. Frames in the standard UI can now be hooked up as Trigger Dialogs. Editor users can now use LastCreatedHelpItem to store tips, and the DestroyHelpItem trigger function has been added to destroy tips individually instead of destroying tips all at once. New Trigger Dialog item types have been added: Tooltip, Unit Status, Unit Status Bar, Unit Status Duration Bar, Portrait, Unit Model, Offscreen Unit, Unit Target. New Trigger Dialog item properties have been added: Behavior, Actor, Unit, Unit Link, Model, Paused, Light, Team Color, Team Color Index, Camera, Paused. Various improvements have been made to the Overview Manager: The Game Data component now displays all objects used by the document, even if they are defined in dependencies. The folder hierarchy has been simplified, and view options for folder and type display have been added. The usage count for each object is now displayed in the item text. The tree view state is now preserved after reloading data. Support has been added for custom, high-resolution mini-map images. Support has been added for a self-cast hotkey. Support has been added to allow for item stacking. Support has been added to define multiple lighting regions in the game world. Mini-map icons can now be adjusted by scale, background, background scale, and color. The editor has been updated to use Visual Styles. Font Style editing has been added to the Text Module. Optimizations have been made to improve dependency loading. Additional Test Document preferences have been added for editor and game window minimization behavior. A new map option called Static Shadow Intensity has been added, which is used during static shadow generation. This option is found in the Map Options section of the Map menu. A new map option called Stagger Periodic Trigger Events has been added. This option is found in the Map Options section of the Map menu. The New Document dialog has been improved to make it easier to configure starting document types and dependencies. Preliminary support has been added to allow for better configuration of new physics FX, such as ragdoll deaths, combat-driven impulses, water ripples, and collision-based water splashes. Future updates will include additional editor support, documentation, and physics-enabled assets for creators to use in their maps. Inventory commands (Use, Move, and Pawn) are now available as custom hotkeys. Font Glow support has been added. A new InlineJustification font flag has been added. Red text has been improved to now filter into different error type groups. Pressing Control + Alt + F11 now allows mod makers to reload the UI. This allows changes made to layout files to be reflected immediately without having to quit and restart the game. Frames now have a field called AlphaMaskTexture that can mask out the rendering of their children. This can be used primarily to mask out the hard edges of Portrait Frames. New Editor Modules A new Cutscene Module has been added, replacing the Previewer Window. The Cutscene Module allows mod makers to visually create cinematic sequences that can be played back in-game. Cutscenes can range from simple camera, light, or animation control to epic story moments suitable for a campaign. Several new native functions have also been added to control cutscene playback. A new AI Module has been added for user-friendly management and visualization of attack wave timing and unit composition for computer players. Further customization is possible by attaching triggers to attack waves. Several new trigger functions have been added for working with attack waves defined in this module. A new UI Module has been added. It allows modification of the UI layout files that control most aspects of the in-game UI. The initial release of this module focuses on exposing a simple XML editing interface for SC2Layout files, and further improvements are planned for the future. Data Module Support has been added for effect, behavior, and learn ability tooltip images. Support has been added for the Launch Missile effect to validate placement at the targeted location. Support has been added for missile reflection effects. A unit flag has been added to specify that a unit's vision test should only occur from its center (and not include its radius). A Stunned flag for Behaviors has been added that allows the queuing of commands. A new flag has been added to button data to disable showing an ability level in the tooltip. Effects can now be executed when an attribute, power, or veterancy level changes. Behavior modifications can now be upgraded. Effect abilities can now specify a custom tooltip, icon, and name for the learn ability to use. Doodads can now be configured to change their opacity when the local player has vision of them. Occluded model opacity can now be customized. The launch offset on missile effects is now supported. Existing units may be launched as missiles with the launch missile effect. "Unified" movement and attack speed factors have been added which add the most positive and negative factors together to get the actual adjustment. This factor will be multiplied by the existing cumulative modifiers. "Supported filters" have been added to the attack ability to control what types of units are allowable targets and which units are simply ignored. "Follow filters" and "move filters" have been added to the move ability to control what types of units can be followed or moved to. Charges now maintain their existing count when the max count increases A new power alliance state has been added A "pre-emptable" flag has been added to effect abilities to indicate that the ability should not be canceled when pre-empted (i.e. due to a stun). A separate camera height map has been added. This height map is much smoother than the flyer height map, and the camera data can now choose which height map to use. The "Override Colors" associated with Game UI data can now be upgraded. Conjoined behaviors can now customize what properties are shared by each unit in the group (including visibility and specific vitals). Effect ability times are now upgradeable. A new User-Defined Data System has been added. This can be accessed through the new User type in the Data module, as well as its corresponding functions in the trigger library. The Data Module has been updated to use a horizontal auto-layout to better utilize available screen space. New data types have been added: Army Categories Army Units Army Upgrades Bank Conditions Characters Heroes Hero Abilities Hero Statistics Locations Maps Objectives Physics Materials Preload Tactical AI Cooldowns User Types Terrain Module Two new brushes have been added to the Terrain Module: Preplaced Creep brush Lighting Regions brush Support has been added for multiple layer selection operations (see Layer >> Select From). A new distance measuring tool has been added, which measures both straight-line and pathing distances (see Tools >> Measure Distance). New terrain copy/paste options have been added to include or exclude textures, geometry, and water (see Edit >> Copy Options). Placed units and doodads may now be named and shown/hidden on an individual basis (see View >> Show UI >> Show Palette Existing Objects). Custom tags may now be defined and assigned to placed objects to help categorize and display them (see View >> Show Tags). A new option has been added for diagonal grid display (see View >> Show Grid >> Diagonal Grid). New map image export options have been added for using minimap dimensions and importing directly into the map (see Data >> Export Map Image). Preplaced units and doodads can now be configured to adjust the height map. Trigger Module When a player now pings the mini-map or game world, a new event called Player Ping is dispatched which contains the location of the ping and the unit that was pinged (if any). The mini-map now updates when water changes through triggers. A new player property has been added to disallow resource splitting when players drop from a game. Functionality has been added to the script test window to show overall memory usage within the script system. Array sizes may now be defined using constant integer variables. An Expression value source has been added for more easily defining complex mathematical expressions or text concatenations. Many new Library functions have been added! Please visit our Custom Maps forum for a complete list of these additions. Actor A new ActorInfoDisplay cheat has been added for live actor debugging. Support has been added for Line and Arc targeting cursor support. Terrain squib support has been added for tileset-specific dust or snow clouds FX. Attach, AttachModel, AttachModelOffset, and AttachOffset messages have been added for dynamically adding, positioning, and rotating attached actors more easily. This will makes it easier to arbitrarily cobble together units made out of multiple models and attachments. New messages have been added for configuring strobe selection on actors (such as halos and strobe pulses). Associated messages have also been added for setting halo, strobe color, width, and more. Initial support has been added for Serpent Actors, which allows for creation of serpent units by driving attachment points within a model or by stringing together multiple models. This functionality will continue to change and improve with future updates. Additional custom death support has been added for making situational unit fatalities. There is now built-in support for triggering fatalities from X damage over Y intervals, and by "overkilling" a unit by X damage or more. Added CActorSiteOpMotionDirection to enable unit death models to continue forward with the velocity the unit had at the time of death, enabling corpses to skid to a stop. Added a number of minimap icon customization options in CActorUnit, both via field and several new messages. CActorRegions can now be filtered based on an associated ability if configured. Region queries can now send a unique response to the closest unit if configured. Regions can now also be rotated. CActorRange can now restrict the icons drawn to relative cliff levels. CActorDoodad now has a number of new fields for customizing opacity, imposing no-fly zones, and boosting terrain levels underneath the doodad, so that creep can show up on bridges. Added SetTextSize message for changing text size on CActorText.
Added CActorSiteOpIncoming, which makes it easier to configure attachk FX to match the incoming direction of an attack (regardless of whether it is a ranged direct attack or a missile attack). Added CActorSiteOpRotator for spinning actor around arbitrary axes at arbitrary rate. Propellers can be made with this. Added CActorSiteOpRotationRandom for randomly positioning actors within a given yaw and/or pitch angle. Added CActorTermKilledByEffect for customizing deaths to particular abilities. Added CActorTermIsKnownAs for testing whether actors have a particular alias. Added CActorTermUnitWalking for testing when CActorUnits are walking. Added CActorSiteOpHigherOfTerrainAndWater for positioning actors on the terrain or the water above it (if any). Added CActorTermMissileTentacle and CActorTermMissileTentacleIsReturning to allow for better configuration of customized tentacles, particularly for units with multiple tentacles. Added CActorPropertyCurveSet to animate properties like TintColor, Position, and Rotation with splines. Added a GameInitialize message for creating actors at game initialization. Added a message for showing all power circles at once. Added a term to check the level of an ability for ability messages. Added a new ScenePowerShowAll actor message that will show/hide power for all allied power sources. It is now very easy to add terrain-specific launch and impact FX, such as a snow burst on a Siege Tank impact. It is now possible to send actor messages to portraits in the glue screens. It is now possible to swap a CActorModel's model, a CActorSplat鈥檚 splat, and a CActorSound's sound before they initialize to avoid the performance hit of first creating one model and replacing it with another. Compose portraits from multiple CActorModels can now be used more easily. FaceFX and animations can now be redirected to models other than the one in the main CActorPortrait. A new Camera Actor has been added for controlling the camera through actor events. A new Scene Actor has been added for controlling global actor settings (Halo settings, Power visual hiding). A new Light Actor has been added to allow for easier light creation in data. Many new messages for configuring light in this manner have also been added. A new Creep Actor has been added for higher performance creep effects, such as creep engulfment. Galaxy New support has been added to the Trigger Debug Window for breakpoints, stepping through functions, and variable inspection. Galaxy script code memory limit has been increased: 4x-10x more memory can now be utilized depending on how scripts are being used. New support has been added for passing structure, array, and function references as function parameters. Galaxy error message output has been improved. Graphics Anti-aliasing support has been added to smooth out edges in the game. This can be toggled on or off in the Graphics section of the Options Menu. New support has been added to define multiple lighting regions in the game world. Lighting can now be changed per player via triggers. Unit-specific Halo support has been added for pre-targeting. A new Scaled Baked Ambient Occlusion option has been added. It is now possible to customize the intensity of a map鈥檚 pre-generated static shadows. Publishing The Game Variants dialog now includes a Genre setting which determines a fixed category for Arcade maps. Arcade support has been added to the Editor for mod creators to fill out their Arcade game info page.
General Many improvements and fixes have been made to the terrain avoidance subsystem when missiles pass cliff edges. Many improvements and fixes have been made for combat reveal relating to tentacles and long-range beam attacks. The BlizzCon 2011 Fist of Furry decal is now displaying properly in-game again. The Free For All Gladiator achievement is now properly awarding points for Free For All kills on Nerazim Crypt. Mothership shields now properly count towards the Frugal Fighter achievement. The EPM and APM observer overlays have been reversed and are now displaying their proper values. Pre-placement images now persist through saved games. The "CPM" observer shortcut is no longer cut-off in the observer dropdown UI. The Stat Panel bar will no longer show up as grey when rapidly pressing their hotkeys. Unbinding universal hotkeys no longer causes them to appear as structures. Canceling out of the Hotkey Menu via the escape key no longer causes temporary hotkeys to be saved. Loading a saved game during a transmission no longer results in an empty transmission frame. It is no longer possible to rename saved game files that are currently in use. It is no longer possible to add AI players to a game of Aiur Chef. Entering cinematic mode while holding the Alt key no longer causes unit status bars to persist after releasing it. Queuing a Move, Hold, then Patrol command no longer causes the display of the Patrol rally point to appear at an incorrect location. Auto-Turrets and Infested Terrans that have been killed no longer count as Units Lost in the Leader Panel. Fire and smoke particles no longer generate at an awkward angle from damaged Perdition Turrets. Rewinding a replay with a unit selected no longer causes its portrait to disappear. Alt + tabbing while loading a melee map no longer causes the camera to scroll to the top of the map when re-entering SC2. The Hero Icon no longer displays as a purple square for zerg players. Fixed various compatibility issues with ATI Radeon X800 series video cards. Fixed a crash that could occur when compiling a galaxy script. Fixed an issue where galaxy scripts would parse decimal numbers incorrectly in some cases. Fixed an issue where Spectators and Referees would see an extraneous Requirements header in various tooltips that did not have any upgrade options. Fixed an issue where sending a transmission could cause in-game portraits to freeze. Fixed an issue where units could display an inconsistent tint color to an observer when switching between viewing modes. Fixed an issue where numbers in the Stat Panel would occasionally display as all zeroes. Fixed some string inconsistencies in the Observer Hotkey options. Fixed an issue where doodads were not properly drawing under the Black Mask until the map was revealed near them. Fixed an actor error that occurred when upgrading Viking attacks while Vikings were in Fighter Mode. Fixed some missing textures with certain Char doodads. Fixed various references to Sentries being available in the Wings of Liberty campaign. Fixed an issue where the protoss player slot UI would disappear in a loading screen with 11 or more players. Fixed an issue where 6 and 8-player fortress maps allowed teams to be placed next to enemies in uneven team formats. Fixed an issue where restarting Round 20 of StarCraft Master would cause the info panel to display incorrectly. Fixed an issue where terrain deformations could allow units to be hidden under the terrain. Fixed an issue where it was possible to crash the AI on certain custom maps if the AI chose to nuke close to the edge of the map. Battle.net A player who logs out of the game during a match countdown now receives a point loss. The other player now receives a message that the opposing player has canceled the queue and neither receives a point bonus nor penalty. Addressed performance issues that could occur over time when navigating between various Battle.net pages. StarCraft II players can no longer send party invites to RealID friends playing World of Warcraft. The Score Screen for Versus AI and Cooperative matches now displays the correct victory or defeat message after completing a game. Friend status icons now update properly when a player joins a single-player game while Away or Busy. Achievements will now be properly awarded when logging onto Battle.net from offline mode. Players no longer lose progress with streak achievements when other players leave the automated matchmaking queue while being matched. The Invite button no longer stays lit after inviting all friends to a conversation chat. The Skip button in the Welcome to Multiplayer screen now has a sound effect. Pressing Esc on the Starter Edition offer screen no longer prevents subsequent logging-on attempts on accounts with valid SC2 licenses. The News & Community pages now process HTML characters properly. The Invite to Party button can no longer be spammed repeatedly. Maps can no longer be published if they begin or end with whitespace, contain consecutive whitespace, or contain non-printable characters. Custom game lobbies now properly default your race to the last race played. Chat no longer scrolls to the bottom of a chat window when a new message is added if a player has previously scrolled up in the chat window. It is no longer possible to select 鈥淏lock Communication: for RealID friends. Fixed an issue where the Battle.net UI would overlap the game world if a replay was launched too quickly. Fixed an issue where the "You have voice chat disabled" message would occasionally display in-game despite having voice chat enabled. Fixed an issue where matches would occasionally fail to appear in a player's match history. Fixed an issue where the Current Team State Box would occasionally update to display inaccurate data. Fixed an issue where the multiplayer game mode would switch to 2v2 when reaching the Battle.net input limit. Fixed an issue in custom games with AI where the score screen would improperly list AI players as zerg regardless of their actual race played. Fixed an issue where the Bonus Pool would occasionally display an incorrect value. Fixed an issue where players would lose points for wins and gain points for losses on very rare occasions. Fixed an issue where the Start/Skip Practice League dialogue could appear blank when spam-clicking the Multiplayer button. Fixed an issue where maps with custom dependencies would not appear in the Versus AI screen when playing offline. Fixed an issue where certain words could pass through the profanity filter by appending other characters. Fixed an issue where players could sometimes temporarily lose license-based achievements. Fixed an issue where player race would default to terran when changing a custom game lobby to Co-Op vs. AI. Fixed an issue where bookmarks could disappear when navigating between certain screens. Fixed an issue where pausing a game and surrendering would occasionally cause the Score Screen to display an error message. Fixed a crash that could occur when loading a map that has six or more dependencies.
Races Protoss The Pylon power radius now displays up cliff levels properly on Low graphic settings. Fixed an issue where certain protoss structures would sometimes continue to display a warp-in animation if they became unpowered. Terran The Medivac_HealLoop sound now plays properly when a player manually heals a unit with a Medivac. It is no longer possible to stack a large number of units into tight spaces using Medivacs. The Command Center's Load ability will no longer reserve a cargo slot for nearby SCVs that are busy constructing buildings. Siege Tanks no longer use an SCV voiceover when they fail to enter Siege Mode. Fixed an issue where flying terran structures would sometimes use their ground death animations when killed. Fixed an issue where the Hellion‘s flame attack would only hit burrowed units despite other units also being in its line of fire behind the burrowed unit. Fixed an issue where a Bunker could be made to look empty despite being loaded with units by using queued Rally commands. Fixed an issue where the Seeker Missile's explosion would not display if a save was loaded while the missile was in flight. Zerg Banelings will now auto-cast Unburrow if a Colossus comes within their attack range. Banelings lifted by phoenixes now use proper visual indication when detonating and damaging units below them. It is no longer possible to queue up multiple build commands using a single Drone. Morphing units no longer become stuck in their cocoon state if they are underneath a Hatchery. The Nydus Network and Nydus Worm no longer glow if they are holding Drones that are carrying minerals. Active Creep Tumors no longer display as dormant if their Spawn Tumor action was canceled during the spawn animation. Brood Lord and Overseer Cocoons now have a Rally command instead of Move, Hold Position, and Patrol commands. Editor + Show Spoiler [Editor Bug Fixes] +
General Many UI fixes have been made across all areas of the editor, including overlapping issues, , resizing issues, and missing panes. Imported objects are now immediately available for browsing upon saving a map. The time of day now consistently matches the actual set day length when cycling through a 24-hour time period. Maps saved as components now properly report external files as changed. Playing over 512 trigger sounds for an inactive player no longer causes trigger sounds to stop functioning for all players. Resizing the Publish Document Pane to its smallest size no longer causes hit box issues with the Config Options. Fixed some issues where the editor would display inconsistent file sizes for published documents. Fixed an issue where exporting editor preferences would not properly save all values. Fixed a display issue that could occur when selecting units with different inventory slot configurations. Fixed an issue where adding a large number of dependencies to map would cause the editor to stop responding. Fixed an issue where the "At" term for an Actor Event would persist after changing the Actor Event to something that shouldn't have the "At" term available. Fixed a crash that could occur when using a Chinese Phonetic IME. Resolved various situations where the editor could run out of memory too easily. Data Module The HDR Multiplier parameter in the "Send Actor Message : Set Team Color" action now accepts a value of 1. Data now links up properly to duplicated objects. Resetting objects to their parent value now properly resets the previously entered values. Changes to the Background of a map in the Data Module now immediately updates the map in the Terrain Module. Augmented abilities now properly show linked objects inside the object explorer. Behaviors that have Requirement Nodes now properly display those nodes in the behavior's "Used By" dropdown field. Objects that share their Name and Text Key now duplicate properly in the editor. Modifying specific fields of a pre-existing object now properly colors the object green to indicate that changes have been made. Duplicating a unit's abilities in the editor while duplicating the unit itself will no longer prevent the new unit from being usable in-game. Editing sub-fields of an expanded parent field will no longer remove the data from similarly named sub-fields when using raw data view. Duplicating models no longer point the models to non-existent assets. Fixed an issue where style controls could become disabled when highlighting text too quickly. Fixed an issue where units with rotation animations would no longer rotate after being revived. Fixed an issue where duplicated units would not be referenced properly in their documented fields. Fixed an issue where multiple fields of a duplicated object incorrectly referenced the original object rather than the duplicate. Fixed an issue where objects without field categories displayed improperly. Terrain Module Painted pathing now shows properly in the Terrain Editor when a new map is opened while viewing the Pathing layer Holding down shift when moving a doodad now properly ignores placement requirements until after the doodad is moved to a valid location. Doodads now properly adjust their height when using "Modify Height Field". Removing water in the editor now properly shows the green boxes of where water is placed. Filling a 256x256 map with water no longer causes the water on the bottom half of the map to display incorrectly. Fixed an issue where textures could occasionally become corrupted when opening maps in the terrain module. Fixed an issue when generating static shadows where the progress bar would not fill up completely. Fixed an issue where replacing doodads would reset the doodad height to zero. Fixed a crash that could occur when placing and then undoing terrain objects. Trigger Module The Cinematic Mode trigger now has more detailed help text. It is now possible to copy and paste the Ability Command parameter in trigger functions. The ability parameter for the Unit Uses Ability event now has a preset to choose "Any Ability Command". The "Set Portrait Tint Color" action is now working properly. Using a Play Sound Scene trigger no longer causes unit actors to display improperly. The "Show/Hide All Leaderboards" action is now working properly. Fixed an issue where fade calls would be ignored if another fade was already in progress. Fixed an issue where only boolean variables could be referenced from a record as the first value in a comparison condition. Fixed a crash that could occur when passing an invalid player to the DialogControlGetPropertyAsString trigger function. Fixed an issue where the "Chat Message" event would not trigger if chat was not said in All chat. Mac Imported images now display correctly. It is now possible to view objects through the Overview Manager by using the Return hotkey. Saving and reloading a game will no longer generate a prompt saying that your graphic settings have changed. Fixed a crash that could occur when relogging into Battle.net after playing a multiplayer map. Fixed an issue in Windowed Mode where the client's presence would remain as Away despite being in focus. Fixed an issue where the Text Controls in the Text Editor would not apply until the text was re-edited. Fixed an issue where repeating labels would display in the Trigger Module if a map was loaded before opening the Trigger Module.
On July 24 2012 17:11 MetalSlug wrote: Can anyone explain the baneling auto unburrow in range of colosus ?
I assume that this would be if unburrow was set to to autocast (which you do by right clicking it). I guess that at the moment the unburrow autocast doesn't detect colossus due to its dual air/ground classification.
I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran actually, but I enjoy trying to figure out new ways to play
Really excited to see this finally come on, even though it's still meh the 1.5 UI is a lot better than what we had before. Also this means the next big thing coming up is the start of beta, mainly because blizz said they'd release beta after 1.5 :D Next possible patch date is next week monday (or tuesday/wednesday if you are from na/eu), lets hope it happens in the next couple weeks.
EDIT: I love how 90% of the comments seem to have never heard of the 2 months long beta that has been available for everyone for this patch.
Why are some people upset that there are no balance changes? Even though I never play custom games, I appreciate the amount of content in this patch. I think we can all agree Blizzard should eventually do something to help the map makers and casuals who play customs. Some of those people have been waiting patiently.
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
ask Samsung Khan Reality, he beat every zerg easy and say he can beat every zerg 2-0 from gsl damn he beat shine and symbol 2-0 ... symbol top3 zerg in world and he just crushes him, you just have to look his style
"It is no longer possible to stack a large number of units into tight spaces using Medivacs."
This is kinda important and related to gameplay/balance. I don't know exactly what they mean by "tight spaces", but I guess they're talking about the typical "sweet spot" between, lets say a spire and a spawning pool behind a mineral line, where you can unload 8 marines and snipe the buildings without being surrounded by lings.
On July 24 2012 17:32 BearStorm wrote: Why are some people upset that there are no balance changes? Even though I never play custom games, I appreciate the amount of content in this patch. I think we can all agree Blizzard should eventually do something to help the map makers and casuals who play customs. Some of those people have been waiting patiently.
well mostly because we dont show customs in the GSL/NASL/MLG?
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
ask Samsung Khan Reality, he beat every zerg easy and say he can beat every zerg 2-0 from gsl damn he beat shine and symbol 2-0 ... symbol top3 zerg in world and he just crushes him, you just have to look his style
On July 24 2012 17:45 tianGO wrote: "It is no longer possible to stack a large number of units into tight spaces using Medivacs."
This is kinda important and related to gameplay/balance. I don't know exactly what they mean by "tight spaces", but I guess they're talking about the typical "sweet spot" between, lets say a spire and a spawning pool behind a mineral line, where you can unload 8 marines and snipe the buildings without being surrounded by lings.
I think this is more for that seige tank exploit where they could get off the map when placed in tight areas.
It doesn't make any sense to change anything when Terrans are just starting to adjust and show better results and PvZ/ZvP is finally evolving into a watchable match-up.
i have a feeling that there will be no more balance changes after this. Blizzard will probably let the players to adjust themselves and 'balance things up', and concentrate more on HOTS from now on. its like:
"what's the point of having tons of meetings and analysis to try balancing a game with big design flaws. Even if we did, when HOTS is out there will be tons of other problems surfacing and all the previous effort will be wasted."
On July 24 2012 17:51 gengka wrote: i have a feeling that there will be no more balance changes after this. Blizzard will probably let the players to adjust themselves and 'balance things up', and concentrate more on HOTS from now on. its like:
"what's the point of having tons of meetings and analysis to try balancing a game with big design flaws. Even if we did, when HOTS is out there will tons of other problems surface and all the previous effort will be wasted."
i agree, there is no way to balance warp gate and larva inject so why bother trying.
I said it when Protoss players were the ones whining, I'll say it now: a few tournaments or a few weeks is irrelevant in terms of game balance. Anyone who is complaining about balance right now is no better than the whiners who complained about balance when Terrans were winning heavily.
There shouldn't be any changes. Just because Blizzard has taken an active interest in patching this game and its units in a way that is radically different than their approach to SC Brood War doesn't mean every person with a keyboard needs to tap away at a silly message concerning their impressions of balance.
Byun, a person no one even considered a good player was one turn around in the middle of the map away from being in the finals. Taeja has won a tournament. Terrans are exploring different methods of winning games. Mvp is still skinning and mounting nerds on his wall despite lacking interest in the game and suffering from an injury that prevents him from dominating at full strength. MKP is excellent, there are Kespa Terrans taking games off of very skilled zergs and there is an all Protoss final going on after a Terran won an MLG and a Zerg won the NASL.
Some people are so out of touch with what's really going on that they need to just step back, take a breath and let the moment you're in flow away and have a bit of patience.
On July 24 2012 17:51 gengka wrote: i have a feeling that there will be no more balance changes after this. Blizzard will probably let the players to adjust themselves and 'balance things up', and concentrate more on HOTS from now on. its like:
"what's the point of having tons of meetings and analysis to try balancing a game with big design flaws. Even if we did, when HOTS is out there will tons of other problems surface and all the previous effort will be wasted."
i agree, there is no way to balance warp gate and larva inject so why bother trying.
This is almost as idiotic as the people who thought all three spell casters--infestor, ghost and high templar--should be balanced in terms of range, ability and function. The point of warp gate, MULE and larva inject was to bring imbalance to each race. There can be imbalances within the whole so long as it evens out elsewhere. The Protoss players who whined about High Templar being incomparable to Ghosts are just as wrong in their approach to "fixing" these so-called issues.
That's because they (and everyone else who engages in 'balance' discussion) really don't understand the type of game balance the designers are achieving and they should find something else to pretend to be knowledgeable of. They're the type of people who see Zerg macro as a 'cheat' and 'unfair'. They don't get it, they whine despite there being great players of each race who are successful (as of 2012, there are 4 terrans, 3 zergs and 3 protosses in the top 10 for SC earnings) and again, need to step back, take a breath and look at the whole rather than 'herp derp, 5 range queen'.
I am probably gonna redownload SC2 because of this :p
Also, glad no balance changes - imo Queen range doesnt have anything to do with Zerg dominance, even if they reverted it, it would be the same. Queens were always this strong, they just buffed them a little so Zerg players would actually use them and come up with strategies like 6 queens etc... The same thing they did previously, they insignificantly buffed underused strong unit to encourage players to use it. Now they should buff ravens and observer speed upgrade (seriously, why is no one getting that? They are getting like +air upgrades, but never observer speed, it just makes me sad).
"Fixed an issue where a Bunker could be made to look empty despite being loaded with units by using queued Rally commands."
Not sure exactly what this means, but if I'm understanding it right it's a cool unintended "trick" which could be used to set traps? Oh excellent, now maybe they can patch broodwar to fix that silly hold lurker thing where they wouldn't attack when an enemy unit came into range. LOL NO. Blizzard (Y)
On July 24 2012 18:14 TheRealFluid wrote: The state of the game is the most balanced I've seen ever. We're having a PvP GSL finals, a zerg winning Dreamhack, and a Terran winning MLG.
But I lose all my bronze league games as Terran therefore the game the clearly imbalanced at the pro level and I shall make sure the forums know of this but seriously though, there's no problem at the pro level right now, Terrans are doing fine TvZ
and to ^ no, comparing an empty bunker with units inside it to a hold position lurker is a stupid as all hell comparison.
On July 24 2012 17:51 gengka wrote: i have a feeling that there will be no more balance changes after this. Blizzard will probably let the players to adjust themselves and 'balance things up', and concentrate more on HOTS from now on. its like:
"what's the point of having tons of meetings and analysis to try balancing a game with big design flaws. Even if we did, when HOTS is out there will be tons of other problems surfacing and all the previous effort will be wasted."
Yeah, it makes sense, but when HotS beta comes out, they have to be on the ball with balance patch changes.
No more patch changes 2-3 months after they were necessary. (phoenix range, overlord speed buff in conjunction with queen range) No more randomly nerfing something immediately after it becomes standard without giving people time to adjust. (blueflame hellion nerf, strike cannon nerf) No more "one race is meant to be so much stronger than the other nonsense" (in regards to David Kim's comments on TvP.) More communication on the reasons for balance changes and the current state of ladder balance. More prompt admissions that they were wrong (bunker salvage/build time, neutral supply depots, etc) More experimentation on little used units (carriers, Ravens, Thors, BCs)
For once, I think it's fine not having a balance patch (terran player here). The metagame needs time to adjust (remember how the balance worked in BW days ?) I look forward for those nice UI changes !
Is it just me or does anyone else have the feeling that the SC2 client will be free2play soon, and you only need the full version for the features inside the Starcraft 2-Button? I really think this would make sense, because When Blizzard-Dota releases Blizz won't want only SC2-Buyers to have access to it, so it would make sense to make the Arcade free2play.
On July 24 2012 17:51 gengka wrote: i have a feeling that there will be no more balance changes after this. Blizzard will probably let the players to adjust themselves and 'balance things up', and concentrate more on HOTS from now on. its like:
"what's the point of having tons of meetings and analysis to try balancing a game with big design flaws. Even if we did, when HOTS is out there will be tons of other problems surfacing and all the previous effort will be wasted."
Yeah, it makes sense, but when HotS beta comes out, they have to be on the ball with balance patch changes.
No more patch changes 2-3 months after they were necessary. (phoenix range, overlord speed buff in conjunction with queen range) No more randomly nerfing something immediately after it becomes standard without giving people time to adjust. (blueflame hellion nerf, strike cannon nerf) No more "one race is meant to be so much stronger than the other nonsense" (in regards to David Kim's comments on TvP.) More communication on the reasons for balance changes and the current state of ladder balance. More prompt admissions that they were wrong (bunker salvage/build time, neutral supply depots, etc) More experimentation on little used units (carriers, Ravens, Thors, BCs)
Maybe in twenty years, when Dustin Browder publishes his memoirs.
For once, I think it's fine not having a balance patch (terran player here). The metagame needs time to adjust (remember how the balance worked in BW days ?) I look forward for those nice UI changes !
Any idea on the release date ?
It has been in beta for 2+ month and before that in alpha. The last change to the 1.5 beta was like a month ago too. Both hots beta key contest that used the beta are over, blizzard said hots beta will start soon and 1.5 will be released before that. So based on all those facts I'd say within the next few weeks, especially given we have the final patch notes.
hmm as i recall. two protoss in the gsl finals. and a terran winnign the summer mlg. i think the state of the game is fine. drg won a couple too but thats about it
On July 24 2012 18:45 jment wrote: Do Banelings also damage air units? O-O
No. The colossus is partly an air unit and it should be able to be hit be a baneling, too.
I'm assuming the bug with banelings not hitting colossus is because of colossus walking "on top" of other units, and not because it can be hit by air-units. I could be wrong tho.
Blizzard patches when people are finding things OP and imbalanced crowd: "Why u patch Blizzard, let pro's figure it, stop patching!" Blizzard doesn't patch for once when something is found imbalanced. crowd "Why you no patch Blizzard?!"
On July 24 2012 19:02 Assirra wrote: Blizzard patches when people are finding things OP and imbalanced crowd: "Why u patch Blizzard, let pro's figure it, stop patching!" Blizzard doesn't patch for once when something is found imbalanced. crowd "Why you no patch Blizzard?!"
Yeah :/ It's kinda silly, isn't it?
Anyways, the performance optimizations are interesting. Preparation for HotS I would presume.
Read the patch notes slowly and really savored the moments and waiting to get to the "Balance" section. Got closer and closer to the end and started panicing more and more until finally i saw none and almost started crying. Not cool, Blizzard.
On July 24 2012 19:02 Assirra wrote: Blizzard patches when people are finding things OP and imbalanced crowd: "Why u patch Blizzard, let pro's figure it, stop patching!" Blizzard doesn't patch for once when something is found imbalanced. crowd "Why you no patch Blizzard?!"
Some people (especially on the internet) will always find reason to whine. Nothing you can do about it.
Great patch, hopefully the Custom games will be much easier to navigate. Can't wait to play some great UMS.
I'm so glad there's not balance change, the game needs to balance by itself. Give a little time and pgm finds new way. Remember how not so long ago people said TvZ lategame was impossible? MKP just used the new BC/Raven composition and won against Line's BL/Corruptor/infestor
On July 24 2012 19:11 Toorgr wrote: I'm so glad there's not balance change, the game needs to balance by itself. Give a little time and pgm finds new way. Remember how not so long ago people said TvZ lategame was impossible? MKP just used the new BC/Raven composition and won against Line's BL/Corruptor/infestor
cool, next time im playing in gsl on their maps i will be sure to use that!
People need to understand that there are different types of potential patches, such as balance changes and feature changes. The balance changes were already made a while ago. Once enough time has elapsed they may do a balance patch again, but it's quite obvious that 1.5 is intentionally only a feature/bug patch, and I don't see why why anyone should have a problem with that. This way it works best since they're quite separate things and could be rolled back individually if certain problems occur.
On July 24 2012 19:02 Assirra wrote: Blizzard patches when people are finding things OP and imbalanced crowd: "Why u patch Blizzard, let pro's figure it, stop patching!" Blizzard doesn't patch for once when something is found imbalanced. crowd "Why you no patch Blizzard?!"
Yeah :/ It's kinda silly, isn't it?
Anyways, the performance optimizations are interesting. Preparation for HotS I would presume.
The best thing about the patch. Now my laptop, can play at low settings without suffering from FPS hits. Woohoo!
On July 24 2012 19:02 Assirra wrote: Blizzard patches when people are finding things OP and imbalanced crowd: "Why u patch Blizzard, let pro's figure it, stop patching!" Blizzard doesn't patch for once when something is found imbalanced. crowd "Why you no patch Blizzard?!"
Some people (especially on the internet) will always find reason to whine. Nothing you can do about it.
Great patch, hopefully the Custom games will be much easier to navigate. Can't wait to play some great UMS.
Biggest problem? Some races used to be very vocal at how terribly imbalanced certain things are. We've got cryDra, one of the worst of them all. Loads of builds (especially Terrans) have been nerfed within weeks after they were discovered, without the other races adapting. Look at the Ghost/Tank in TvZ, it was dealt with by going for T1, Nydus and Drops. Instead, Snipe was nerfed to do lower damage than the normal attack...
So I can understand that to Terrans this feels like: "Hmpf, whenever we figure something out, it gets nerfed. Whenever we fail to do anything for months, we need to wait and let the pro's fix it..."
Also, I highly dislike how Taeja is an argument for 'balance'. He played 1 TvZ (LosirA was not in form that weekend), 1 TvT and the rest TvPs. That's no showing of how T may or may not be balanced...
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
The Terran coffin where they keep winning tournaments and where the distribution is about 33% for each of the three races for the first time in the game's history?
On July 24 2012 18:29 Goozen wrote: I hope this will help with the custom games, EU seems to be kind of stagnant as far as popular games go.
Amen. If i have to play Protoss Kingdom again, ughhh. Although on benefit is i hang out in chat channels looking for games, like sc2improve and Practice Time.
No balance changes? I guess that Blizzard think it's ok for Terran to have no late game. Time to switch to Zerg for good then, at least until HotS (or not, because Zerg looks OP in HotS for now)
On July 24 2012 19:24 Antares_ wrote: No balance changes? I guess that Blizzard think it's ok for Terran to have no late game. Time to switch to Zerg for good then, at least until HotS (or not, because Zerg looks OP in HotS for now)
Please do come be zerg, even with the win rates balancing out zerg is still op? lol, I hope you have fun because you are gonna drop to bronze while learning all the cheeses of all 3 race. Good luck!
Good patch, glad to see no balances changes, Terran can obviously still win as shown in recent tournaments, it's just not 70% favored for them in TvZ like before which is a good thing. Good to see Blizzard gets it and didn't fall for the balance whine that started Day 1 (which tells a lot about how the players didn't want to adjust to the new metagame like other races )
On July 24 2012 19:24 Antares_ wrote: No balance changes? I guess that Blizzard think it's ok for Terran to have no late game. Time to switch to Zerg for good then, at least until HotS (or not, because Zerg looks OP in HotS for now)
Please do come be zerg, even with the win rates balancing out zerg is still op? lol, I hope you have fun because you are gonna drop to bronze while learning all the cheeses of all 3 race. Good luck!
If you don't play greedy as fuck (as in, Hatch Hatch Gas Pool Macro Hatch +1/+1 before teching...) You can hold pretty much every cheese. The most powerful cheeses T/P (Cannon Rush, Proxy Gates, Proxy 11/11 with SCV pull) have can be held with Hatch first, which is silly on its own...
But it's time for me to leave, getting frustrated and annoyed.
On July 24 2012 19:24 Antares_ wrote: No balance changes? I guess that Blizzard think it's ok for Terran to have no late game. Time to switch to Zerg for good then, at least until HotS (or not, because Zerg looks OP in HotS for now)
Please do come be zerg, even with the win rates balancing out zerg is still op? lol, I hope you have fun because you are gonna drop to bronze while learning all the cheeses of all 3 race. Good luck!
If you don't play greedy as fuck (as in, Hatch Hatch Gas Pool Macro Hatch +1/+1 before teching...) You can hold pretty much every cheese. The most powerful cheeses T/P (Cannon Rush, Proxy Gates, Proxy 11/11 with SCV pull) have can be held with Hatch first, which is silly on its own...
Don't just theorycraft,DO try. I would like to see you hold a sentry immortal since you are protoss, or a ramp FF. And you seem to think its easy to hold early game cheese which I can guarantee you are greatly mistaken if you don't scout it right. And proxy 11/11 is crazily difficult btw, especially on ladder maps without a supply depot at the bottom.
What the hell are you guys talking about? They've said more than one time that they won't make balance changes until HotS comes out, I don't know what you were expecting.
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
The Terran coffin where they keep winning tournaments and where the distribution is about 33% for each of the three races for the first time in the game's history?
That's quite a coffin you've got there.
when the barely balanced ratio is maintained by terrans sometimes winning with 11/11 or getting away with 3-4 cc's and upgrades at 6:00 while zergs don't even try scouting, yeah, people unsurprisingly will be upset
On July 24 2012 19:02 Assirra wrote: Blizzard patches when people are finding things OP and imbalanced crowd: "Why u patch Blizzard, let pro's figure it, stop patching!" Blizzard doesn't patch for once when something is found imbalanced. crowd "Why you no patch Blizzard?!"
Some people (especially on the internet) will always find reason to whine. Nothing you can do about it.
Great patch, hopefully the Custom games will be much easier to navigate. Can't wait to play some great UMS.
Biggest problem? Some races used to be very vocal at how terribly imbalanced certain things are. We've got cryDra, one of the worst of them all. Loads of builds (especially Terrans) have been nerfed within weeks after they were discovered, without the other races adapting. Look at the Ghost/Tank in TvZ, it was dealt with by going for T1, Nydus and Drops. Instead, Snipe was nerfed to do lower damage than the normal attack...
So I can understand that to Terrans this feels like: "Hmpf, whenever we figure something out, it gets nerfed. Whenever we fail to do anything for months, we need to wait and let the pro's fix it..."
Also, I highly dislike how Taeja is an argument for 'balance'. He played 1 TvZ (LosirA was not in form that weekend), 1 TvT and the rest TvPs. That's no showing of how T may or may not be balanced...
Sure, they may be some validity in their complains, not denying that. Blizzard has some strange policy regarding balancing (sometimes they do knee-jerk reactions, other times they let players/mapmakers figure stuff out). I was just commenting on the overall negativity of some people.
On July 24 2012 19:29 Tuthur wrote: Good patch, glad to see no balances changes, Terran can obviously still win as shown in recent tournaments, it's just not 70% favored for them in TvZ like before which is a good thing. Good to see Blizzard gets it and didn't fall for the balance whine that started Day 1 (which tells a lot about how the players didn't want to adjust to the new metagame like other races )
That must be it. Terrans players just can't seem to adapt.
Meanwhile in the EU top 30 we have 13 Zergs, 12 Protoss and 5 Terrans (16,6%). Also note that in the top 25 there are only 2 Terrans, that is 8%.
On July 24 2012 19:24 Antares_ wrote: No balance changes? I guess that Blizzard think it's ok for Terran to have no late game. Time to switch to Zerg for good then, at least until HotS (or not, because Zerg looks OP in HotS for now)
Please do come be zerg, even with the win rates balancing out zerg is still op? lol, I hope you have fun because you are gonna drop to bronze while learning all the cheeses of all 3 race. Good luck!
If you don't play greedy as fuck (as in, Hatch Hatch Gas Pool Macro Hatch +1/+1 before teching...) You can hold pretty much every cheese. The most powerful cheeses T/P (Cannon Rush, Proxy Gates, Proxy 11/11 with SCV pull) have can be held with Hatch first, which is silly on its own...
Don't just theorycraft,DO try. I would like to see you hold a sentry immortal since you are protoss, or a ramp FF. And you seem to think its easy to hold early game cheese which I can guarantee you are greatly mistaken if you don't scout it right. And proxy 11/11 is crazily difficult btw, especially on ladder maps without a supply depot at the bottom.
If you scout decently you can hold it, that is what I mean. If you scout properly, everything is holdable with the greediest build you can think of as long as you respond properly. My sig says random btw
On July 24 2012 19:29 Tuthur wrote: Good patch, glad to see no balances changes, Terran can obviously still win as shown in recent tournaments, it's just not 70% favored for them in TvZ like before which is a good thing. Good to see Blizzard gets it and didn't fall for the balance whine that started Day 1 (which tells a lot about how the players didn't want to adjust to the new metagame like other races )
That must be it. Terrans players just can't seem to adapt.
Meanwhile in the EU top 30 we have 13 Zergs, 12 Protoss and 5 Terrans (16,6%). Also note that in the top 25 there are only 2 Terrans, that is 8%.
On July 24 2012 19:24 Antares_ wrote: No balance changes? I guess that Blizzard think it's ok for Terran to have no late game. Time to switch to Zerg for good then, at least until HotS (or not, because Zerg looks OP in HotS for now)
Please do come be zerg, even with the win rates balancing out zerg is still op? lol, I hope you have fun because you are gonna drop to bronze while learning all the cheeses of all 3 race. Good luck!
If you don't play greedy as fuck (as in, Hatch Hatch Gas Pool Macro Hatch +1/+1 before teching...) You can hold pretty much every cheese. The most powerful cheeses T/P (Cannon Rush, Proxy Gates, Proxy 11/11 with SCV pull) have can be held with Hatch first, which is silly on its own...
Don't just theorycraft,DO try. I would like to see you hold a sentry immortal since you are protoss, or a ramp FF. And you seem to think its easy to hold early game cheese which I can guarantee you are greatly mistaken if you don't scout it right. And proxy 11/11 is crazily difficult btw, especially on ladder maps without a supply depot at the bottom.
If you scout decently you can hold it, that is what I mean. If you scout properly, everything is holdable with the greediest build you can think of as long as you respond properly. My sig says random btw
Yes, but the basis of cheese is to be a surprise tactic. Of course everything is holdable if you can scout it. Even 6pool can be defended if you scout it and that's the only zerg cheese in the early game. Unless we count 7,8,9.10 pool.
On July 24 2012 19:29 Tuthur wrote: Good patch, glad to see no balances changes, Terran can obviously still win as shown in recent tournaments, it's just not 70% favored for them in TvZ like before which is a good thing. Good to see Blizzard gets it and didn't fall for the balance whine that started Day 1 (which tells a lot about how the players didn't want to adjust to the new metagame like other races )
That must be it. Terrans players just can't seem to adapt.
Meanwhile in the EU top 30 we have 13 Zergs, 12 Protoss and 5 Terrans (16,6%). Also note that in the top 25 there are only 2 Terrans, that is 8%.
Sooo..... zerg protoss op? Or terran up?
That must be it. Terrans players just can't seem to adapt. (sarcasm)
On July 24 2012 19:24 Antares_ wrote: No balance changes? I guess that Blizzard think it's ok for Terran to have no late game. Time to switch to Zerg for good then, at least until HotS (or not, because Zerg looks OP in HotS for now)
Please do come be zerg, even with the win rates balancing out zerg is still op? lol, I hope you have fun because you are gonna drop to bronze while learning all the cheeses of all 3 race. Good luck!
If you don't play greedy as fuck (as in, Hatch Hatch Gas Pool Macro Hatch +1/+1 before teching...) You can hold pretty much every cheese. The most powerful cheeses T/P (Cannon Rush, Proxy Gates, Proxy 11/11 with SCV pull) have can be held with Hatch first, which is silly on its own...
Don't just theorycraft,DO try. I would like to see you hold a sentry immortal since you are protoss, or a ramp FF. And you seem to think its easy to hold early game cheese which I can guarantee you are greatly mistaken if you don't scout it right. And proxy 11/11 is crazily difficult btw, especially on ladder maps without a supply depot at the bottom.
If you scout decently you can hold it, that is what I mean. If you scout properly, everything is holdable with the greediest build you can think of as long as you respond properly. My sig says random btw
Yes, but the basis of cheese is to be a surprise tactic. Of course everything is holdable if you can scout it. Even 6pool can be defended if you scout it and that's the only zerg cheese in the early game. Unless we count 7,8,9.10 pool.
A new "Quick Nav" tab has been added to the bottom-left corner of the Battle.net UI. This is a customizable dashboard that allows players to bind up to five Battle.net screens to the F1-F5 keyboard shortcuts for speedier navigation.
Where is this going to fit? The map is in the lower left?! And F1 no longer for idle workers (by default, that is) ??
A new in-game pathing display has been added that shows the path a unit will take on the mini-map.
Not sure if this is necessary or even useful, but sort of cool nontheless.
Lol I remember when Terran completely dominated, and everybody who was pro Terran argued that it was merely the fact that the better players were playing Terran. Lol.
A new "Quick Nav" tab has been added to the bottom-left corner of the Battle.net UI. This is a customizable dashboard that allows players to bind up to five Battle.net screens to the F1-F5 keyboard shortcuts for speedier navigation.
Where is this going to fit? The map is in the lower left?! And F1 no longer for idle workers (by default, that is) ??
A new in-game pathing display has been added that shows the path a unit will take on the mini-map.
Not sure if this is necessary or even useful, but sort of cool nontheless.
Amazed to see no comments about these 2 things.
The first thing is for the menu's, not in-game. The arcade replaced the Multiplayer section and now the multiplayer section is under Starcraft so they implemented a tiny quick-navigation thing so you can get around the menus easier if you know what you're doing.
The second thing doesn't affect starcraft, it can be optionally turned on by custom map authors and is likely for blizzard-all stars.
All this stuff has been up on the beta for some time (close to 2 months now), if it was a huge change you likely would have heard about it.
On July 24 2012 19:35 Fus wrote: I think Blizzard stated long ago that there would be no balance changes untill HOTS
Yup. This is true.
The only thing I have an issue with currently is the Creep Spread. It's insane that zerg can basically have 80% map hack by 9 minutes into the game. But we will see what HOTS brings to the table I guess.
On July 24 2012 19:35 Fus wrote: I think Blizzard stated long ago that there would be no balance changes untill HOTS
Yup. This is true.
The only thing I have an issue with currently is the Creep Spread. It's insane that zerg can basically have 80% map hack by 9 minutes into the game. But we will see what HOTS brings to the table I guess.
I am loving that swarm host. I will build one, and I will camp it outside their base and surround it with banelings and that one swarm host will keep spewing out locust and keep hitting them like a finger poking the opponents one nipple. Then they would move out to take it out and BOOM. Mmmmmmm I will be doing that while fapping.
Why will Blizzard not fix the Protoss weapon upgrade icons? If they are fixing so many tiny things, why dont they fix so its clear what upgrades the Protoss player has?
Zerg and Terran got easily distinguishable icons for their upgrades, namely green, blue red/orange and green, purple, orange, while Protoss on the other hand got light glow, a little bit brighter green, and a little bit brighter blue.
On July 24 2012 19:02 Assirra wrote: Blizzard patches when people are finding things OP and imbalanced crowd: "Why u patch Blizzard, let pro's figure it, stop patching!" Blizzard doesn't patch for once when something is found imbalanced. crowd "Why you no patch Blizzard?!"
Some people (especially on the internet) will always find reason to whine. Nothing you can do about it.
Great patch, hopefully the Custom games will be much easier to navigate. Can't wait to play some great UMS.
Biggest problem? Some races used to be very vocal at how terribly imbalanced certain things are. We've got cryDra, one of the worst of them all. Loads of builds (especially Terrans) have been nerfed within weeks after they were discovered, without the other races adapting. Look at the Ghost/Tank in TvZ, it was dealt with by going for T1, Nydus and Drops. Instead, Snipe was nerfed to do lower damage than the normal attack...
So I can understand that to Terrans this feels like: "Hmpf, whenever we figure something out, it gets nerfed. Whenever we fail to do anything for months, we need to wait and let the pro's fix it..."
Also, I highly dislike how Taeja is an argument for 'balance'. He played 1 TvZ (LosirA was not in form that weekend), 1 TvT and the rest TvPs. That's no showing of how T may or may not be balanced...
Nydus works only with luck and Drops got shutdown by turrets, sensortowers and patroling vikings. It was imba. Especially on Shakuras. Also you werent able to take the middle bases which made swarming zerg units impossible.
"A new in-game pathing display has been added that shows the path a unit will take on the mini-map"
So there'll be lines on the mini-map showing where you've moved/a-moved you units? I guess it could stop accidental splitting of your army, but you should be paying attention to that anyway.
On July 24 2012 19:59 Jaramir wrote: "A new in-game pathing display has been added that shows the path a unit will take on the mini-map"
So there'll be lines on the mini-map showing where you've moved/a-moved you units? I guess it could stop accidental splitting of your army, but you should be paying attention to that anyway.
or am i reading it wrong
Probably only if you click on it. Like if I move a queen it would only show on the minimap but when I select another unit, it would disappear.
On July 24 2012 19:02 Assirra wrote: Blizzard patches when people are finding things OP and imbalanced crowd: "Why u patch Blizzard, let pro's figure it, stop patching!" Blizzard doesn't patch for once when something is found imbalanced. crowd "Why you no patch Blizzard?!"
Some people (especially on the internet) will always find reason to whine. Nothing you can do about it.
Great patch, hopefully the Custom games will be much easier to navigate. Can't wait to play some great UMS.
Biggest problem? Some races used to be very vocal at how terribly imbalanced certain things are. We've got cryDra, one of the worst of them all. Loads of builds (especially Terrans) have been nerfed within weeks after they were discovered, without the other races adapting. Look at the Ghost/Tank in TvZ, it was dealt with by going for T1, Nydus and Drops. Instead, Snipe was nerfed to do lower damage than the normal attack...
So I can understand that to Terrans this feels like: "Hmpf, whenever we figure something out, it gets nerfed. Whenever we fail to do anything for months, we need to wait and let the pro's fix it..."
Also, I highly dislike how Taeja is an argument for 'balance'. He played 1 TvZ (LosirA was not in form that weekend), 1 TvT and the rest TvPs. That's no showing of how T may or may not be balanced...
Nydus works only with luck and Drops got shutdown by turrets, sensortowers and patroling vikings. It was imba. Especially on Shakuras.
Probably because Shakuras just is a stupid turtle Map where attacking = bad.
The game right now is at a state where RoC was. Mediocre balance , produding alot of horrible games with stupid unit combinations . Maybe HotS fixes this but unless theres some serious balancing next to adding the new units/upgrades i doubt it. The game needs big big changes and i feel Blizzard is patching totally wrong making the game worse to play and watch patch by patch.
On July 24 2012 17:51 gengka wrote: i have a feeling that there will be no more balance changes after this. Blizzard will probably let the players to adjust themselves and 'balance things up', and concentrate more on HOTS from now on. its like:
"what's the point of having tons of meetings and analysis to try balancing a game with big design flaws. Even if we did, when HOTS is out there will tons of other problems surface and all the previous effort will be wasted."
i agree, there is no way to balance warp gate and larva inject so why bother trying.
Are they seriously not gonna give us a balance patch? I feel like the game is in one of the worst states it has ever been and it's clearly visible in tournament results. Just look how many top8s had 1 or 0 terrans in it the last few months.
Zerg > Protoss > Terran
That's how it is, and it's not gonna fix itself through new tactics or strategies, it needs to be fixed with a balance patch.
On July 24 2012 19:02 Assirra wrote: Blizzard patches when people are finding things OP and imbalanced crowd: "Why u patch Blizzard, let pro's figure it, stop patching!" Blizzard doesn't patch for once when something is found imbalanced. crowd "Why you no patch Blizzard?!"
Some people (especially on the internet) will always find reason to whine. Nothing you can do about it.
Great patch, hopefully the Custom games will be much easier to navigate. Can't wait to play some great UMS.
Biggest problem? Some races used to be very vocal at how terribly imbalanced certain things are. We've got cryDra, one of the worst of them all. Loads of builds (especially Terrans) have been nerfed within weeks after they were discovered, without the other races adapting. Look at the Ghost/Tank in TvZ, it was dealt with by going for T1, Nydus and Drops. Instead, Snipe was nerfed to do lower damage than the normal attack...
So I can understand that to Terrans this feels like: "Hmpf, whenever we figure something out, it gets nerfed. Whenever we fail to do anything for months, we need to wait and let the pro's fix it..."
Also, I highly dislike how Taeja is an argument for 'balance'. He played 1 TvZ (LosirA was not in form that weekend), 1 TvT and the rest TvPs. That's no showing of how T may or may not be balanced...
Nydus works only with luck and Drops got shutdown by turrets, sensortowers and patroling vikings. It was imba. Especially on Shakuras. Also you werent able to take the middle bases which made swarming zerg units impossible.
Versus Tank Ghost Nydus is viable. It's a super immobile composition. Drops combined with maybe 2 broodlords to pick turrets off will work too. Infestors lobbing ITs work. Shakuras is a shit excuse for a map in any matchup, so dont use that as an argument. On TDA/Condemned and a couple more you need every tank and ghost uou can get to split the map.
But it was never put in practice becausr Snipe got nerfed to hell withing weeks.
So when is this thing coming out? I know HOTS beta is right behind this patch release, so I am kinda excited, plus the new interface features sound great.
On July 24 2012 20:08 Champloo wrote: Are they seriously not gonna give us a balance patch? I feel like the game is in one of the worst states it has ever been and it's clearly visible in tournament results. Just look how many top8s had 1 or 0 terrans in it the last few months.
Zerg > Protoss > Terran
That's how it is, and it's not gonna fix itself through new tactics or strategies, it needs to be fixed with a balance patch.
On July 24 2012 19:52 FireSA wrote: Lol I remember when Terran completely dominated, and everybody who was pro Terran argued that it was merely the fact that the better players were playing Terran. Lol.
There are still more good korean terrans than there are of the other races.
They're just not doing that well due to obvious issues.
Despite the lack of balance changes, a lot of the UI, graphics, and B.Net changes are great. It took them two years to get slash commands from the original Battle.net working, but whatever.
It makes me happy that at least I can go into Heart of the Swarm, and if I mentally block the last two years, I can delude myself into thinking the game always had a reasonable set of features.
On July 24 2012 19:29 Tuthur wrote: Good patch, glad to see no balances changes, Terran can obviously still win as shown in recent tournaments, it's just not 70% favored for them in TvZ like before which is a good thing. Good to see Blizzard gets it and didn't fall for the balance whine that started Day 1 (which tells a lot about how the players didn't want to adjust to the new metagame like other races )
That must be it. Terrans players just can't seem to adapt.
Meanwhile in the EU top 30 we have 13 Zergs, 12 Protoss and 5 Terrans (16,6%). Also note that in the top 25 there are only 2 Terrans, that is 8%.
Korea Top 30 Grandmaster: 10 Terrans.
The game is currently balanced for the absolute highest level of play. (Still as a spectator I find it kind of boring to watch, where the metagame has gone with the NR10 games all the time)
Not sure why people were expecting balance changes to happen. Blizzard repeatedly stated that they are happy with current state of balance. How much they know/understand is another matter.
Slight creep spread nerf from what I gather about the cancellation/dormant tumor thing. Otherwise, as long as HOTS comes soon I'm okay with no balance changes. If HOTS takes another 2 years or something though.... :|
No balance changes proscene is pretty balanced atm. I understand that terran is harder to play in the lower leagues, but changes to fix that would disturb competitive balance again.
On July 24 2012 20:08 Champloo wrote: Are they seriously not gonna give us a balance patch? I feel like the game is in one of the worst states it has ever been and it's clearly visible in tournament results. Just look how many top8s had 1 or 0 terrans in it the last few months.
Zerg > Protoss > Terran
That's how it is, and it's not gonna fix itself through new tactics or strategies, it needs to be fixed with a balance patch.
stupidity > mankind
THIS needs fixed with a balance patch
Look like God messed up in making Blizzard? Let's blame the Lord for imbalance!
On July 24 2012 20:19 Sandermatt wrote: (Still as a spectator I find it kind of boring to watch, where the metagame has gone with the NR10 games all the time)
NR10 all the time? What in the world are you talking about? As recently as last season, Squirtle was cheesed out of the GSL Finals. THE GSL FINALS.
On July 24 2012 20:37 i)awn wrote: Seems no joint replay watching.
Will likely be around the time HotS launches, this is just a lead-up patch with the arcade stuff. Keep in mind they showed this stuff at blizzcon LAST year and it's only just launching, don't expect it for a while.
On July 24 2012 19:24 Antares_ wrote: No balance changes? I guess that Blizzard think it's ok for Terran to have no late game. Time to switch to Zerg for good then, at least until HotS (or not, because Zerg looks OP in HotS for now)
Please do come be zerg, even with the win rates balancing out zerg is still op? lol, I hope you have fun because you are gonna drop to bronze while learning all the cheeses of all 3 race. Good luck!
Afterbeing in Masters I dropped to Diamond, because for 3 days in a row I was only playing TvZs and 2 TvPs.
With Zerg I'm also Diamond, so... no, I won't drop down to bronze.
I really don't understand why do people complain about no balance changes this patch. It's like they don't visit this forum or read what Blizzard says ever...
There has been no PTR and no balance changes proposed or tested. And they have explicitly said MONTHS ago that this patch is for the installment of the arcade only. We get it the big bad queen buff needs to be dealt with right NOW or the world just implodes but Jesus...
On July 24 2012 17:59 Desert Fox wrote: I said it when Protoss players were the ones whining, I'll say it now: a few tournaments or a few weeks is irrelevant in terms of game balance. Anyone who is complaining about balance right now is no better than the whiners who complained about balance when Terrans were winning heavily.
Terran were winning at GSL level, in EU and NA terran was already the less repressented race at high level by far. So when protoss were whining about terran, there was a large majority of protoss in master and GM league.
Since the ghost nerf and queen upgrade the number of terran went down from 29 to 26% in GM Master league when the number of zerg and protoss went from 32/33% to 35%...
So imo terran was already underpowered at non GSL level long ago... By nerfing them to balance the game at GSL level they made of terran an underpowered race even at GM level.
On July 24 2012 20:28 Jakkerr wrote: No balance changes proscene is pretty balanced atm. I understand that terran is harder to play in the lower leagues, but changes to fix that would disturb competitive balance again.
The Pro-Scene is alot of things but its not balanced. 1 Terran win since the patch now suddenly everything is fine again ? Yeah right ...
On July 24 2012 20:28 Jakkerr wrote: No balance changes proscene is pretty balanced atm. I understand that terran is harder to play in the lower leagues, but changes to fix that would disturb competitive balance again.
The Pro-Scene is alot of things but its not balanced. 1 Terran win since the patch now suddenly everything is fine again ? Yeah right ...
A Terran that won a tvt, some tvp's and a tvz vs out of shape Losira. Notice, said Terran is arguably on of the best tvp'ers out there.
[b]StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.5.0 Fixed an issue where the Seeker Missile's explosion would not display if a save was loaded while the missile was in flight.
Well it looks like they did a lot of UI stuff, which is cool. I personally didn't go on the PTR, so idk. Also surpised there is no Terran nerf at the end of that.
Sweet, HotS beta should be ready to release soon after. To those whining about the lack of balance changes they've said their intention with 1.5 patch for months at this point, and also said this would be purely UI/bug fix. Doesn't mean we don't have another patch coming before HotS beta.
On July 24 2012 21:34 Badfatpanda wrote: Sweet, HotS beta should be ready to release soon after. To those whining about the lack of balance changes they've said their intention with 1.5 patch for months at this point, and also said this would be purely UI/bug fix. Doesn't mean we don't have another patch coming before HotS beta.
There will so much balance changer when HOTS beta will hit.. , and then people will complain abouth it .. OMG SO MUCH PATCHES etc etc.. Im not sure ... but , when HOTS beta will be live , they will balance two games at same time ? or only HOTS ? , because some HOTS balance changes will also affect WoL units.. in natural way , or they gonna balance just one game and leave another one ?
On July 24 2012 20:28 Jakkerr wrote: No balance changes proscene is pretty balanced atm. I understand that terran is harder to play in the lower leagues, but changes to fix that would disturb competitive balance again.
wtf I like competitive gaming but I haven't bought this game to see a few players playing in my stead. I want a game balanced for the lower league I don't care if the game is balanced for 200 people out of 300K ! Lets just sacrifice the 170K terran player of this game that are not in GM league for the professional gaming sake ! Your are so right !
On July 24 2012 21:34 Badfatpanda wrote: Sweet, HotS beta should be ready to release soon after. To those whining about the lack of balance changes they've said their intention with 1.5 patch for months at this point, and also said this would be purely UI/bug fix. Doesn't mean we don't have another patch coming before HotS beta.
There will so much balance changer when HOTS beta will hit.. , and then people will complain abouth it .. OMG SO MUCH PATCHES etc etc.. Im not sure ... but , when HOTS beta will be live , they will balance two games at same time ? or only HOTS ? , because some HOTS balance changes will also affect WoL units.. in natural way , or they gonna balance just one game and leave another one ?
They will balance only HOTS. WoL will be forever in the state it was when hots was released.
On July 24 2012 21:41 Beelzebro wrote: what happened to the plans for cross-region play? unranked ladder?
etc etc.
That's in HotS not 1.5 patch.
No they said it'd be released for WoL too. I assume there'll be one final patch for WoL shortly before HotS comes out.
They did say it will be released for WoL as well but they never said it would be included with patch 1.5. That was already listed as a feature for HotS so my assumption would be that when HotS is released they will also release a patch for WoL to add those new features at that time unless they specifically state that WoL will get it earlier, which I don't believe they have said any such thing yet.
As for the patch, I'm super stoked to see it's finally getting ready to come out! That means that beta could be right around the corner right? Not as quickly after MLG Anaheim as we all thought and hoped but at least it's getting closer. I also really enjoyed the beta for 1.5. The interface looked nice and it was a welcome upgrade in my opinion. Can't wait for the update!
On July 24 2012 19:35 Fus wrote: I think Blizzard stated long ago that there would be no balance changes untill HOTS
Yup. This is true.
The only thing I have an issue with currently is the Creep Spread. It's insane that zerg can basically have 80% map hack by 9 minutes into the game. But we will see what HOTS brings to the table I guess.
I think there's a 30% chance in 7mins you will realize that being active and denying creep is as important as spreading it. I've also heard in hots most maps start covered with creep and have an upgrade for range 9 queens.
But seriously terrans you better hope Bisu switches to T, because I can't possibly think of any builds myself other than reactor hellion expand vs mass queen into moaning that I can't kill 10 drones, deny creep and my 3rd faster than the Zerg.
Needless to say most of this should have been done for WoL's release and not two years later... Or that a lot of the changes could have been implemented with previous patches instead of saving them for the (probably) last patch before HotS.
On July 24 2012 21:50 ZenithM wrote: At least there was no bug to fix in Terran.
Terran The Medivac_HealLoop sound now plays properly when a player manually heals a unit with a Medivac. It is no longer possible to stack a large number of units into tight spaces using Medivacs. The Command Center's Load ability will no longer reserve a cargo slot for nearby SCVs that are busy constructing buildings. Siege Tanks no longer use an SCV voiceover when they fail to enter Siege Mode. Fixed an issue where flying terran structures would sometimes use their ground death animations when killed. Fixed an issue where the Hellion‘s flame attack would only hit burrowed units despite other units also being in its line of fire behind the burrowed unit. Fixed an issue where a Bunker could be made to look empty despite being loaded with units by using queued Rally commands. Fixed an issue where the Seeker Missile's explosion would not display if a save was loaded while the missile was in flight.
Terran wasn't bolded in the op. Not sure what is relieving about not needing bug fixes though.
On July 24 2012 19:52 FireSA wrote: Lol I remember when Terran completely dominated, and everybody who was pro Terran argued that it was merely the fact that the better players were playing Terran. Lol.
I'd like you to try and prove this isn't accurate... The Terrans that were winning back in the pre nerfed terran days consisted of MVP (basically the best sc2 player we have had), MKP (been consistently placing high/winning stuff since beta i believe), and Nada (no explanation necessary), Puma (at foreign events with very few koreans) and a few others. Meanwhile MC and Nestea easily shone through that when they were on top...so exactly how is it that top korean terran players just weren't better? When did you see foreign events non korean terrans dominating? If Terran was just so skillless and dominant they surely would have been able to take some tournaments during that time? Truth is, maybe things were a little wonky in those days, but through all of that zergs and protoss were spoonfed lots of balance changes, giant maps with free 3rds, no gold bases, instant elimination of terran builds when they showed to be strong, and more scouting. Hell, blizzard even went ahead and showed them what metagame to use.
I'm all for balancing high levels, but when 90% of the population is suffering ( and this is apparently even true at grandmasters level like 23-25% terran representation) they really should find some way to alleviate this. Very disappointed there wasn't even some small adjustment in this patch, or an announcement that they are working on something. No changes till HoTS is just lazy.
On July 24 2012 19:52 FireSA wrote: Lol I remember when Terran completely dominated, and everybody who was pro Terran argued that it was merely the fact that the better players were playing Terran. Lol.
I'd like you to try and prove this isn't accurate... The Terrans that were winning back in the pre nerfed terran days consisted of MVP (basically the best sc2 player we have had), MKP (been consistently placing high/winning stuff since beta i believe), and Nada (no explanation necessary), Puma (at foreign events with very few koreans) and a few others. Meanwhile MC and Nestea easily shone through that when they were on top...so exactly how is it that top korean terran players just weren't better? When did you see foreign events non korean terrans dominating? If Terran was just so skillless and dominant they surely would have been able to take some tournaments during that time? Truth is, maybe things were a little wonky in those days, but through all of that zergs and protoss were spoonfed lots of balance changes, giant maps with free 3rds, no gold bases, instant elimination of terran builds when they showed to be strong, and more scouting. Hell, blizzard even went ahead and showed them what metagame to use.
I'm all for balancing high levels, but when 90% of the population is suffering ( and this is apparently even true at grandmasters level like 23-25% terran representation) they really should find some way to alleviate this. Very disappointed there wasn't even some small adjustment in this patch, or an announcement that they are working on something. No changes till HoTS is just lazy.
On July 24 2012 19:52 FireSA wrote: Lol I remember when Terran completely dominated, and everybody who was pro Terran argued that it was merely the fact that the better players were playing Terran. Lol.
I'd like you to try and prove this isn't accurate... The Terrans that were winning back in the pre nerfed terran days consisted of MVP (basically the best sc2 player we have had), MKP (been consistently placing high/winning stuff since beta i believe), and Nada (no explanation necessary), Puma (at foreign events with very few koreans) and a few others. Meanwhile MC and Nestea easily shone through that when they were on top...so exactly how is it that top korean terran players just weren't better? When did you see foreign events non korean terrans dominating? If Terran was just so skillless and dominant they surely would have been able to take some tournaments during that time? Truth is, maybe things were a little wonky in those days, but through all of that zergs and protoss were spoonfed lots of balance changes, giant maps with free 3rds, no gold bases, instant elimination of terran builds when they showed to be strong, and more scouting. Hell, blizzard even went ahead and showed them what metagame to use.
I'm all for balancing high levels, but when 90% of the population is suffering ( and this is apparently even true at grandmasters level like 23-25% terran representation) they really should find some way to alleviate this. Very disappointed there wasn't even some small adjustment in this patch, or an announcement that they are working on something. No changes till HoTS is just lazy.
They already stated like three times that 1.5.0 was only a bug fixing, launcher fixing and graphic fixing patch... It was possible to test it like a month ago. No surprise there.
There will just be a 1.5.1 for balance a bit later if still needed.
And all your numbers are stupid. Stop generating false stats and act like they are real. You just look dumb.
There's no reason to think there won't be any more balance changes after this patch. Blizz could easily revert the queen range buff without an official patch in the same way they did the buff. Any honest observer can now see that zvt is imbalanced so it really is Blizzard's responsibility to make the change, in the same way they've responded to mass Zerg whine in the past.
On July 24 2012 19:52 FireSA wrote: Lol I remember when Terran completely dominated, and everybody who was pro Terran argued that it was merely the fact that the better players were playing Terran. Lol.
I'd like you to try and prove this isn't accurate... The Terrans that were winning back in the pre nerfed terran days consisted of MVP (basically the best sc2 player we have had), MKP (been consistently placing high/winning stuff since beta i believe), and Nada (no explanation necessary), Puma (at foreign events with very few koreans) and a few others. Meanwhile MC and Nestea easily shone through that when they were on top...so exactly how is it that top korean terran players just weren't better? When did you see foreign events non korean terrans dominating? If Terran was just so skillless and dominant they surely would have been able to take some tournaments during that time? Truth is, maybe things were a little wonky in those days, but through all of that zergs and protoss were spoonfed lots of balance changes, giant maps with free 3rds, no gold bases, instant elimination of terran builds when they showed to be strong, and more scouting. Hell, blizzard even went ahead and showed them what metagame to use.
I'm all for balancing high levels, but when 90% of the population is suffering ( and this is apparently even true at grandmasters level like 23-25% terran representation) they really should find some way to alleviate this. Very disappointed there wasn't even some small adjustment in this patch, or an announcement that they are working on something. No changes till HoTS is just lazy.
QQ
Now look, I agree his post was silly, but a response like that might be even worse. Lets stop making posts like these (inc this one^^) that ignore the new UI an dhave balancewars@ designated thread
On July 24 2012 22:15 zidaneshead wrote: Why do we need balance changes? Terrans and protoss are still winning plenty last I checked.
that doesnt mean anything. let me give you an example:
zerg is nerfed to hell, queen, hatch and gas geysir cost 10000 in my example. also assume that 6pools are hard to defend and give 50% winrate in all matchups with zerg.
that will mean all zergs will 6pool, get a 50% winrate and so there would be some zergs "winning games". but that does not mean the game is balanced.
On July 24 2012 19:52 FireSA wrote: Lol I remember when Terran completely dominated, and everybody who was pro Terran argued that it was merely the fact that the better players were playing Terran. Lol.
I'd like you to try and prove this isn't accurate... The Terrans that were winning back in the pre nerfed terran days consisted of MVP (basically the best sc2 player we have had), MKP (been consistently placing high/winning stuff since beta i believe), and Nada (no explanation necessary), Puma (at foreign events with very few koreans) and a few others. Meanwhile MC and Nestea easily shone through that when they were on top...so exactly how is it that top korean terran players just weren't better? When did you see foreign events non korean terrans dominating? If Terran was just so skillless and dominant they surely would have been able to take some tournaments during that time? Truth is, maybe things were a little wonky in those days, but through all of that zergs and protoss were spoonfed lots of balance changes, giant maps with free 3rds, no gold bases, instant elimination of terran builds when they showed to be strong, and more scouting. Hell, blizzard even went ahead and showed them what metagame to use.
I'm all for balancing high levels, but when 90% of the population is suffering ( and this is apparently even true at grandmasters level like 23-25% terran representation) they really should find some way to alleviate this. Very disappointed there wasn't even some small adjustment in this patch, or an announcement that they are working on something. No changes till HoTS is just lazy.
Id like you to prove that it isnt accurate that better players arent just playing zerg now. Remember when the gsl had like 20 terrans compared to like 7 zergs and 5 protoss? Sure maybe those terran players were better than the other race players... but i guess not now? Or maybe terran was just imba back then and zerg imba now? We will never know =)
I dont mind blizzard doing some questionable changes, but delaying all kinds of balance changes until HOTS just because, its infuriating. I wanted to believe blizzard cyclical balance didnt apply to sc2.
Anyway, i tryed a bit of the beta, and the new UI looks great.
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
On July 24 2012 19:52 FireSA wrote: Lol I remember when Terran completely dominated, and everybody who was pro Terran argued that it was merely the fact that the better players were playing Terran. Lol.
I'd like you to try and prove this isn't accurate... The Terrans that were winning back in the pre nerfed terran days consisted of MVP (basically the best sc2 player we have had), MKP (been consistently placing high/winning stuff since beta i believe), and Nada (no explanation necessary), Puma (at foreign events with very few koreans) and a few others. Meanwhile MC and Nestea easily shone through that when they were on top...so exactly how is it that top korean terran players just weren't better? When did you see foreign events non korean terrans dominating? If Terran was just so skillless and dominant they surely would have been able to take some tournaments during that time? Truth is, maybe things were a little wonky in those days, but through all of that zergs and protoss were spoonfed lots of balance changes, giant maps with free 3rds, no gold bases, instant elimination of terran builds when they showed to be strong, and more scouting. Hell, blizzard even went ahead and showed them what metagame to use.
I'm all for balancing high levels, but when 90% of the population is suffering ( and this is apparently even true at grandmasters level like 23-25% terran representation) they really should find some way to alleviate this. Very disappointed there wasn't even some small adjustment in this patch, or an announcement that they are working on something. No changes till HoTS is just lazy.
Id like you to prove that it isnt accurate that better players arent just playing zerg now. Remember when the gsl had like 20 terrans compared to like 7 zergs and 5 protoss? Sure maybe those terran players were better than the other race players... but i guess not now? Or maybe terran was just imba back then and zerg imba now? We will never know =)
Terran was imba, and it got nerfed. Even though Terran was imba, I'd say that the most top tier players played Terran. Now, I'd say that things are a little more even, but Terran still has the most top tier players. I can think of probably 15-20 truly frightening Terrans, about 10 frightening Protoss, and maybe 7 or 8 frightening Zergs. That's not to say that the people not in this list are bad or anything, but I don't think they're at a level to compete with the best of the best, so to speak. I mean, Fruitdealer won GSL when Zerg was weak as hell and undeniably underpowered. I don't see how Terrans taking the odd win in foreign tournies or in Code A (against other Terrans, no less) means anything.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
i am almost 100% sure you're zerg since you said "the game is pretty balanced"....
I don't understand how there's so many people whining about the fact there's no balance changes. We've known 1.5 was going to be a maintenance/cosmetic patch for the longest time (like the last 4 months) everyone seems to be acting as if this is a surprise?
On July 24 2012 22:15 zidaneshead wrote: Why do we need balance changes? Terrans and protoss are still winning plenty last I checked.
that doesnt mean anything. let me give you an example:
zerg is nerfed to hell, queen, hatch and gas geysir cost 10000 in my example. also assume that 6pools are hard to defend and give 50% winrate in all matchups with zerg.
that will mean all zergs will 6pool, get a 50% winrate and so there would be some zergs "winning games". but that does not mean the game is balanced.
I don't see the correlation. It isn't like there's only 1 build for each race that's coinflipping Zerg.
On July 24 2012 22:41 Greendotz wrote: I don't understand how there's so many people whining about the fact there's no balance changes. We've known 1.5 was going to be a maintenance/cosmetic patch for the longest time (like the last 4 months) everyone seems to be acting as if this is a surprise?
Being upset about things is what we do at TL, didn't you know? Regardless of merit, there will be rage about anything Blizzard does, including doing exactly what they said they were going to do 4-5 months ago.
On July 24 2012 22:41 Greendotz wrote: I don't understand how there's so many people whining about the fact there's no balance changes. We've known 1.5 was going to be a maintenance/cosmetic patch for the longest time (like the last 4 months) everyone seems to be acting as if this is a surprise?
I figured they wouldn't do any real balance changes until HotS. I'm sure when they release that game there will be a long list of balance changes :D
I'm glad they are still trying to optimize the UI. There are small things that would make playing this game so much easier for hours on end.
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
On July 24 2012 22:41 Greendotz wrote: I don't understand how there's so many people whining about the fact there's no balance changes. We've known 1.5 was going to be a maintenance/cosmetic patch for the longest time (like the last 4 months) everyone seems to be acting as if this is a surprise?
Those statements were when the game was considered to be in a pretty good shape, balance-wise. Currently its not. People expect Blizzard to react accordingly.
I don't think reverting the queen buff for example would take a PTR to balance.
I hope the "A new in-game pathing display has been added that shows the path a unit will take on the mini-map." is for like Blizzard DotA and other custom shit and not actually 1v1 play. Feels like it would be pretty nuub to have lines on your minimap showing where your army is going tbh.
I've read most of it I think and I think it's a slow first step in the right direction but there is still a long way to before everything in star2 is optimal IMO.
On July 24 2012 22:48 Gosi wrote: I hope the "A new in-game pathing display has been added that shows the path a unit will take on the mini-map." is for like Blizzard DotA and other custom shit and not actually 1v1 play. Feels like it would be pretty nuub to have lines on your minimap showing where your army is going tbh.
thats definently jsut another thing the editor can add and not for 1v1
Players who have enabled the "Only allow friends to send me chat messages" option can now receive responses back from non-friends if they initiate the chat. The ability to chat with non-friended players will end if either player logs out, or if no conversation occurs for five minutes.
It was about time Overall everything looks nice, was looking forward this whole revamp.
better late than never, i hope we get a new wave of awesome custom maps with this =) sniff, bnet 0.2 grows up so fast, maybe it will be a fully grown bnet when hots hits.
As someone who hasn't played for about a year now and roots for Terran players, I'd say the game is pretty much in a great state balance wise. Every game I watch the win is attributed to playing better or the loser making a big mistake. Nothing in a long while has been broken, and it's continuing to evolve.
Concerning all the balance discussions, let's say race A needs more skill to reach midmaster level than race B. MMR will anyway lead you to even matches, so you can still have fun, does it really matter that you're more skilled than your opponent if the game is interesting?
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
Finally another bunker change. Been waiting a while for one. Seriously though, really stoked for this patch as there is no more balance changes in store at this moment. Even though terrans are having a hard time, they're letting it evolve into. Something amazing. I apllaud blizzRd on this one, still a few things but its looking good!
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
All these Battle.net changes and still no global ladder or any way to compare points across divisions and leagues. Still can't measure epeen. So Battle.net still sucks.
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
ya lets see fungal VS mech
infesters are useful agaisnt everything, they dont take out entire armys themselves there support units
snipe does deal with roach/ling/bane, not taht it matters because roach/ling/bane is worthless if the opponent has tanks
Really exited to see the new UI coming, hopefully it'll be much better as promised :D.
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Well, they aren't? If you include qualifiers for TSL4, GSL and OSL in last months statistics terrans are doing absolutely horrendeus in both korean and international tournaments. Now one might argue that they shouldn't be included (in balance discussions, note I'm not arguing about what should be included in the TLPD) because they are qualifiers and lesser good players are in there, but then KSL and ESV korean weekly should arguably not be included either, which leaves only GSL code S and A, which in my opinion doesn't give enough matches to statistically say anything.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Balance changes shouldn't be thrown around quickly, if there's a problem they need to wait for the players to try and find a solution before even considering a balance change.
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
...? You obviously don't play at a high level if you think that. Ghost tank countered *everything*. Ghosts could deal with every Zerg unit pretty easily (other than lings... kind of) and tanks did the rest.
Infestors are that strong to make up for Zerg's otherwise crappy units; they deserve a nerf, but only if it's accompanied by a subsequent buff to other units.
On July 24 2012 23:30 melty wrote: So can we expect this patch to be released this week?
No patches always release Monday on sea, Tuesday on na, Wednesday on eu and Thursday on kr/tw, given nothing came out today/yesterday the earliest we'll see this patch is next week.
I guess I can't play 1v1 for even longer. Damn. I will say though that the UI in the beta looked awesome and I'm looking forward to the new look. That and the arcade. Didn't get to test out the arcade too much though since no one was testing when I was apparently...
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Love it, terran wins one tournament - "terran is fine". I guess Zerg was fine at release since they won the first 2 GSLs, no?
Also completely ignoring the fact that Taeja only played one zerg and got a close 2-1 win.
taeja runied it all. if we had another protoss or zerg winner, we could rant all day. i think arcade will be good. i loved playing custom games in w3 and starcraft. i didnt like any of the custom games really much in sc2 yet
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Love it, terran wins one tournament - "terran is fine". I guess Zerg was fine at release since they won the first 2 GSLs, no?
Also completely ignoring the fact that Taeja only played one zerg and got a close 2-1 win.
People complain when there are balance changes and they complain when there are none, please just appreciate the work blizz put in and be happy that the game is getting more and more balanced, zerg nasl winner, terran MLG and soon protoss GSL, no need for balance changes.
I like the UI the way it is, would be impressed if they manged to make it better.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Love it, terran wins one tournament - "terran is fine". I guess Zerg was fine at release since they won the first 2 GSLs, no?
Also completely ignoring the fact that Taeja only played one zerg and got a close 2-1 win.
On July 24 2012 23:47 paddyz wrote: People complain when there are balance changes and they complain when there are none, please just appreciate the work blizz put in and be happy that the game is getting more and more balanced, zerg nasl winner, terran MLG and soon protoss GSL, no need for balance changes.
I like the UI the way it is, would be impressed if they manged to make it better.
Ahahahaha we know which race you DON'T play (terran :D)
Why's everybody crying about balance? Get used to the current situation and experiment with different stuff instead of relying on one strategy and hoping it will be buffed in the near future..
protoss must be nerfed . otherwise the game is balanced. If I make a mistake as zerg it can cost me the game , if the protoss makes one , he's like np. storm is lmfao, robo units are op
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Balance changes shouldn't be thrown around quickly, if there's a problem they need to wait for the players to try and find a solution before even considering a balance change.
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
...? You obviously don't play at a high level if you think that. Ghost tank countered *everything*. Ghosts could deal with every Zerg unit pretty easily (other than lings... kind of) and tanks did the rest.
Infestors are that strong to make up for Zerg's otherwise crappy units; they deserve a nerf, but only if it's accompanied by a subsequent buff to other units.
Are you serious?
Taeja barely won the only TvZ he played ve an extremely out of form Losira. That is no proof of a win that shows tvz is fine.
Also, ghost tank is THE most immobile composition in the game. It was only imba on Shakuras. However, most pro zergs went for more broodlord / infestor / ultra (the countered u its) instead of Ling roach with drops to kill the bases which Terran could impossobly guard.
I guess I dont play at the highest level, but do you even play at any level??
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Balance changes shouldn't be thrown around quickly, if there's a problem they need to wait for the players to try and find a solution before even considering a balance change.
On July 24 2012 23:00 Toastie.NL wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:46 Forikorder wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:30 graNite wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
...? You obviously don't play at a high level if you think that. Ghost tank countered *everything*. Ghosts could deal with every Zerg unit pretty easily (other than lings... kind of) and tanks did the rest.
Infestors are that strong to make up for Zerg's otherwise crappy units; they deserve a nerf, but only if it's accompanied by a subsequent buff to other units.
Are you serious?
Taeja barely won the only TvZ he played ve an extremely out of form Losira. That is no proof of a win that shows tvz is fine.
Also, ghost tank is THE most immobile composition in the game. It was only imba on Shakuras. However, most pro zergs went for more broodlord / infestor / ultra (the countered u its) instead of Ling roach with drops to kill the bases which Terran could impossobly guard.
I guess I dont play at the highest level, but do you even play at any level??
So stop the whining, you're one of the biggest balance whiners on the forum and have been banned for it before. Dont you people ever learn.
On July 24 2012 23:53 clayn wrote: Why's everybody crying about balance? Get used to the current situation and experiment with different stuff instead of relying on one strategy and hoping it will be buffed in the near future..
History makes me think a lot of vocal whiners and doing exactly that is the way to go...
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Balance changes shouldn't be thrown around quickly, if there's a problem they need to wait for the players to try and find a solution before even considering a balance change.
On July 24 2012 23:00 Toastie.NL wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:46 Forikorder wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:30 graNite wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
...? You obviously don't play at a high level if you think that. Ghost tank countered *everything*. Ghosts could deal with every Zerg unit pretty easily (other than lings... kind of) and tanks did the rest.
Infestors are that strong to make up for Zerg's otherwise crappy units; they deserve a nerf, but only if it's accompanied by a subsequent buff to other units.
Are you serious?
Taeja barely won the only TvZ he played ve an extremely out of form Losira. That is no proof of a win that shows tvz is fine.
Also, ghost tank is THE most immobile composition in the game. It was only imba on Shakuras. However, most pro zergs went for more broodlord / infestor / ultra (the countered u its) instead of Ling roach with drops to kill the bases which Terran could impossobly guard.
I guess I dont play at the highest level, but do you even play at any level??
So stop the whining, you're one of the biggest balance whiners on the forum and have been banned for it before. Dont you people ever learn.
So when I come with arguments you start insulting me? Nothing to do here >insert jetpack meme<
Who cares if theres no balance changes. There is a TON of stuff in this patch; features/fixes that were probably left on the backburner to rot while they shoved balance changes into every other patch.
In fact it'd be nice if they stopped randomly balancing the game every 2 months in a patch. It'd be even nicer if they stopped before they randomly buffed queens in a stroke of genius too, though.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Balance changes shouldn't be thrown around quickly, if there's a problem they need to wait for the players to try and find a solution before even considering a balance change.
On July 24 2012 23:00 Toastie.NL wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:46 Forikorder wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:30 graNite wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
...? You obviously don't play at a high level if you think that. Ghost tank countered *everything*. Ghosts could deal with every Zerg unit pretty easily (other than lings... kind of) and tanks did the rest.
Infestors are that strong to make up for Zerg's otherwise crappy units; they deserve a nerf, but only if it's accompanied by a subsequent buff to other units.
Are you serious?
Taeja barely won the only TvZ he played ve an extremely out of form Losira. That is no proof of a win that shows tvz is fine.
Also, ghost tank is THE most immobile composition in the game. It was only imba on Shakuras. However, most pro zergs went for more broodlord / infestor / ultra (the countered u its) instead of Ling roach with drops to kill the bases which Terran could impossobly guard.
I guess I dont play at the highest level, but do you even play at any level??
So stop the whining, you're one of the biggest balance whiners on the forum and have been banned for it before. Dont you people ever learn.
So when I come with arguments you start insulting me? Nothing to do here >insert jetpack meme<
Im not insulting you, and what arguements? Not talking about the post i quoted but previous posts where you do nothing but whine. Getting so old.
^ lol ye. But it is true. The Ui got its desperately needed upgrade and we have to sit back and enjoy! Hey, all those people yelling they quit 1v1 can at leas have fun with new customs ^^!
I wish people would stop using individual tournament wins as a certain race as a measure of balance. A player winning a tournament regardless of race says NOTHING of the current state of balance in Starcraft. It didn't mean anything when the first 2 GSLs were won by 2 Zergs, and it doesn't mean anything now that Taeja won MLG. I'm not saying the game is imbalanced, but Taeja winning MLG certainly doesn't mean it's balanced either.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Balance changes shouldn't be thrown around quickly, if there's a problem they need to wait for the players to try and find a solution before even considering a balance change.
On July 24 2012 23:00 Toastie.NL wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:46 Forikorder wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:30 graNite wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
...? You obviously don't play at a high level if you think that. Ghost tank countered *everything*. Ghosts could deal with every Zerg unit pretty easily (other than lings... kind of) and tanks did the rest.
Infestors are that strong to make up for Zerg's otherwise crappy units; they deserve a nerf, but only if it's accompanied by a subsequent buff to other units.
Are you serious?
Taeja barely won the only TvZ he played ve an extremely out of form Losira. That is no proof of a win that shows tvz is fine.
Also, ghost tank is THE most immobile composition in the game. It was only imba on Shakuras. However, most pro zergs went for more broodlord / infestor / ultra (the countered u its) instead of Ling roach with drops to kill the bases which Terran could impossobly guard.
I guess I dont play at the highest level, but do you even play at any level??
So stop the whining, you're one of the biggest balance whiners on the forum and have been banned for it before. Dont you people ever learn.
So when I come with arguments you start insulting me? Nothing to do here >insert jetpack meme<
Im not insulting you, and what arguements? Not talking about the post i quoted but previous posts where you do nothing but whine. Getting so old.
Just... Nevermind. Fun thing is, I actually play as much Z as T ^^ I don't understand why I am so... Enthusiastic defending Terran, it just feels unjust and I dislike that... I want everybody to enjoy. I actually played Z in beta and up to S3, so I know hoe they feel. I apoligize if I insulted anybody, these are just emotions and moral feelings ;-)
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Balance changes shouldn't be thrown around quickly, if there's a problem they need to wait for the players to try and find a solution before even considering a balance change.
On July 24 2012 23:00 Toastie.NL wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:46 Forikorder wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:30 graNite wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:26 Gescom wrote: @graNite : If Terran is doing well statistically at top tiers of play, then what do you think needs to be done ?
Well i respect your opinon more now that i noticed you play random. 99% of whines come from people just defending their race which makes argueing with them pointless because it will never end.
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
...? You obviously don't play at a high level if you think that. Ghost tank countered *everything*. Ghosts could deal with every Zerg unit pretty easily (other than lings... kind of) and tanks did the rest.
Infestors are that strong to make up for Zerg's otherwise crappy units; they deserve a nerf, but only if it's accompanied by a subsequent buff to other units.
Are you serious?
Taeja barely won the only TvZ he played ve an extremely out of form Losira. That is no proof of a win that shows tvz is fine.
Also, ghost tank is THE most immobile composition in the game. It was only imba on Shakuras. However, most pro zergs went for more broodlord / infestor / ultra (the countered u its) instead of Ling roach with drops to kill the bases which Terran could impossobly guard.
I guess I dont play at the highest level, but do you even play at any level??
So stop the whining, you're one of the biggest balance whiners on the forum and have been banned for it before. Dont you people ever learn.
So when I come with arguments you start insulting me? Nothing to do here >insert jetpack meme<
Im not insulting you, and what arguements? Not talking about the post i quoted but previous posts where you do nothing but whine. Getting so old.
Just... Nevermind. Fun thing is, I actually play as much Z as T ^^ I don't understand why I am so... Enthusiastic defending Terran, it just feels unjust and I dislike that... I want everybody to enjoy. I actually played Z in beta and up to S3, so I know hoe they feel. I apoligize if I insulted anybody, these are just emotions and moral feelings ;-)
Well i respect your opinon more now that i noticed you play random. 99% of whines comes from people just defending their race so its pointless argueing with them because it will never end.
On July 25 2012 00:12 nyaru267 wrote: Well time to wait another 2 months until they nerf zerg
This is a good thing 1)it means they are thoroughly testing balance changes. 2) they are giving the Metagame time to try and sort out if shit really is imba or not.
haha balance whine , the second admin who doesn't know his job , I said all the races are balanced ,but terran and protoss can't use their race. terran needs multitask and protoss needs good amove
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
Pretty balance if you play Zerg, ye.
Oh well, this is no balance thread ...
I skimmed through but I dont see the time it will arrive. When will it be patched in? I'm curious !
Terran MLG winner, PvP GSL finals, I'd say the other races are doing pretty well, wouldn't you?
Balance changes shouldn't be thrown around quickly, if there's a problem they need to wait for the players to try and find a solution before even considering a balance change.
On July 24 2012 23:00 Toastie.NL wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:46 Forikorder wrote:
On July 24 2012 22:30 graNite wrote: [quote]
Well i respect your opinon more now that i noticed you play random. 99% of whines come from people just defending their race which makes argueing with them pointless because it will never end.
Most important to me seem ghost and raven buffs.
I want to see terran spellcasters to be used.
The raven costs 200 gas and is a LIGHT unit ?! It gets sniped way too easy because of its armor type and speed, in my opinion it should be psionic.
the ghost snipe is change should be reverted and the ghost base attack vs light should be the counter to zealots, that would make sense on so many levels.
what does its armour class ahve to dow ith anything? having trouble with banelings clearing your ravens? aside from Thors and phoenix ravens arent going to take extra damage and TvT is the only amtch up ravens are actually used and Phoenixs arent used pretty much at all in PvT anyway
ghost snipe change should not be reverted its disguisting that the Ghost used to literally hard counter every Zerg unit
Its disgusting that the Infestor counters literally every unit (except Ghost)...:/? Infestors can deal with - anything!
Snipe didnt deal with roach ling bane, drop/nydus zergs were diguring ghosttank out. But balance patches helped them fix it ezpz
...? You obviously don't play at a high level if you think that. Ghost tank countered *everything*. Ghosts could deal with every Zerg unit pretty easily (other than lings... kind of) and tanks did the rest.
Infestors are that strong to make up for Zerg's otherwise crappy units; they deserve a nerf, but only if it's accompanied by a subsequent buff to other units.
Are you serious?
Taeja barely won the only TvZ he played ve an extremely out of form Losira. That is no proof of a win that shows tvz is fine.
Also, ghost tank is THE most immobile composition in the game. It was only imba on Shakuras. However, most pro zergs went for more broodlord / infestor / ultra (the countered u its) instead of Ling roach with drops to kill the bases which Terran could impossobly guard.
I guess I dont play at the highest level, but do you even play at any level??
So stop the whining, you're one of the biggest balance whiners on the forum and have been banned for it before. Dont you people ever learn.
So when I come with arguments you start insulting me? Nothing to do here >insert jetpack meme<
Im not insulting you, and what arguements? Not talking about the post i quoted but previous posts where you do nothing but whine. Getting so old.
Just... Nevermind. Fun thing is, I actually play as much Z as T ^^ I don't understand why I am so... Enthusiastic defending Terran, it just feels unjust and I dislike that... I want everybody to enjoy. I actually played Z in beta and up to S3, so I know hoe they feel. I apoligize if I insulted anybody, these are just emotions and moral feelings ;-)
Well i respect your opinon more now that i noticed you play random. 99% of whines comes from people just defending their race so its pointless argueing with them because it will never end.
they cant buff terran, because there is still a bunch of koreans left actually doing fine in gm and major tournament, just look at teaja. those people would totally get out of control if they buffed terran. even on europe, happy and kas just refuse to leave the top 20. so deal with it, ordinary players out there!
On July 25 2012 00:20 Corvi wrote: they cant buff terran, because there is still a bunch of koreans left actually doing fine in gm and major tournament, just look at teaja. those people would totally get out of control if they buffed terran. even on europe, happy and kas just refuse to leave the top 20. so deal with it, ordinary players out there!
They don't need to buff Terran! Just nerf Zerg and Buff protoss! Muahahahahah
God, is the UI modification well been asking for. Maybe not perfect, but still a change.
Yeah, NO BALANCE, ENOUGH.
Check last 2 yeears of race earnings.
Check last 2 years win rates.
I'm tired of all this retarded terran complains. 1.5 years of pure terran dominance (months and months of +55% win rates), and now that win rates are all 3 closer than ever to 50%, all terrans are crying. Jeez...
On July 25 2012 00:12 nyaru267 wrote: Well time to wait another 2 months until they nerf zerg
This is a good thing 1)it means they are thoroughly testing balance changes. 2) they are giving the Metagame time to try and sort out if shit really is imba or not.
I still have to argue about the patch being made in the first place. It was a balanced matchup that was both the most watchable and most fun to play in the game, at the very most they should have just added turbolords. Now it is just a terrible matchup to watch and to play. Why should we let time show that it was imba when before it wasn't? Why couldn't they wait back then?
So I just skipped the first pages, since it's just people whining about there are no balance changes in this patch.
I, for one, look forward to look at the Arcade changes. Finally, the custom games will be fixed.
Also, I don't feel that the game is so imbalanced in it's current state that we need any rushed balance changes. I think we should let the pros work out the match-ups a little more before we need to change everything. Also keep in mind HOTS will soon be released, and here the balance will reset anyway.
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
Terran just won an MLG and they have been doing fine in GSL.
Yes, we're not all in GSL or competing in MLG
Pretty sure you just proved non terrans points. Bad players like yourself, want the game balanced for you. But I have a realization for you, it's not going to happen. So instead of playling 5 games a day like yourself, play 6-8 hours. Then maybe you will actually be good, common knowledge.
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
Terran just won an MLG and they have been doing fine in GSL.
Yes, we're not all in GSL or competing in MLG
Yeah and 99% of us are bad enough at this game that balance will not affect the games we play at all. There were sooo many terran imbalances in this game that actually allowed bad players to win games, and not just for terran but for all races, now that most of those are gone from the game the only race left crying is the one that is suddenly "only" at 50% winrate and not 60+ anymore, what a shocker.
If the only reason you play terran is the fact that it was very easy to win with it, then you are doing it wrong anyways.
On July 25 2012 00:29 Belha wrote: God, is the UI modification well been asking for. Maybe not perfect, but still a change.
Yeah, NO BALANCE, ENOUGH.
Check last 2 yeears of race earnings.
Check last 2 years win rates.
I'm tired of all this retarded terran complains. 1.5 years of pure terran dominance (months and months of +55% win rates), and now that win rates are all 3 closer than ever to 50%, all terrans are crying. Jeez...
Terran being OP in the early stages of the game is NOT a reason nor and argument for them to be UP 'to compensate'...
Personally i feel that there is still much exploring to do from every race. TvZ with more barracks timings. ZvZ, more lategame opportunities and ZvP totally different mid-game builds apart from roach, roach, roach. But that is a biased opinion.
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
Terran just won an MLG and they have been doing fine in GSL.
Yes, we're not all in GSL or competing in MLG
Yeah and 99% of us are bad enough at this game that balance will not affect the games we play at all. There were sooo many terran imbalances in this game that actually allowed bad players to win games, and not just for terran but for all races, now that most of those are gone from the game the only race left crying is the one that is suddenly "only" at 50% winrate and not 60+ anymore, what a shocker.
If the only reason you play terran is the fact that it was very easy to win with it, then you are doing it wrong anyways.
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
Terran just won an MLG and they have been doing fine in GSL.
Yes, we're not all in GSL or competing in MLG
Pretty sure you just proved non terrans points. Bad players like yourself, want the game balanced for you. But I have a realization for you, it's not going to happen. So instead of playling 5 games a day like yourself, play 6-8 hours. Then maybe you will actually be good, common knowledge.
Actually, it's always been a key goal of Blizzard's to balance the game for all levels of play.
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
Terran just won an MLG and they have been doing fine in GSL.
Yes, we're not all in GSL or competing in MLG
Pretty sure you just proved non terrans points. Bad players like yourself, want the game balanced for you. But I have a realization for you, it's not going to happen. So instead of playling 5 games a day like yourself, play 6-8 hours. Then maybe you will actually be good, common knowledge.
Actually, it's always been a key goal of Blizzard's to balance the game for all levels of play.
It's not really possible to fully balance all level's, So the highest level will come first as its the most important.
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
Terran just won an MLG and they have been doing fine in GSL.
Yes, we're not all in GSL or competing in MLG
Pretty sure you just proved non terrans points. Bad players like yourself, want the game balanced for you. But I have a realization for you, it's not going to happen. So instead of playling 5 games a day like yourself, play 6-8 hours. Then maybe you will actually be good, common knowledge.
Oh so I should just play at GSL level in order to have a good time on the ladder? Amazing advice. Just like I said to all the protoss players when MC won GSL's "Just play more, like MC"
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
Terran just won an MLG and they have been doing fine in GSL.
Yes, we're not all in GSL or competing in MLG
Pretty sure you just proved non terrans points. Bad players like yourself, want the game balanced for you. But I have a realization for you, it's not going to happen. So instead of playling 5 games a day like yourself, play 6-8 hours. Then maybe you will actually be good, common knowledge.
Oh so I should just play at GSL level in order to have a good time on the ladder? Amazing advice. Just like I said to all the protoss players when MC won GSL's "Just play more, like MC"
Depending on what legue you are in, any kind of changes shouldnt really effect you if you're in bronze-diamond, he is right people are so bad at that legue you just need better macro to progress, 2 range on queen will make almost no diffrence at low level play. Try praticing macro more.
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
Terran just won an MLG and they have been doing fine in GSL.
Yes, we're not all in GSL or competing in MLG
Pretty sure you just proved non terrans points. Bad players like yourself, want the game balanced for you. But I have a realization for you, it's not going to happen. So instead of playling 5 games a day like yourself, play 6-8 hours. Then maybe you will actually be good, common knowledge.
Actually, it's always been a key goal of Blizzard's to balance the game for all levels of play.
It's not really possible to fully balance all level's, So the highest level will come first as its the most important.
Yep. But I'm sure they'd rather see 45%-55% at GSL level than 70%-30% at Platinum level. Their goal is to balance all levels.
On July 24 2012 17:11 MetalSlug wrote: Can anyone explain the baneling auto unburrow in range of colosus ?
I assume that this would be if unburrow was set to to autocast (which you do by right clicking it). I guess that at the moment the unburrow autocast doesn't detect colossus due to its dual air/ground classification.
Didn't even know burrow had an autocast.... what the hell?
On July 25 2012 01:01 FezTheCaliph wrote: I really wish they would have put a /reply command in. I always have hard time tabbing through all my chat boxes when in game to respond to someone
/r works in game to reply to the last person who messaged you >.>
On July 24 2012 17:11 MetalSlug wrote: Can anyone explain the baneling auto unburrow in range of colosus ?
I assume that this would be if unburrow was set to to autocast (which you do by right clicking it). I guess that at the moment the unburrow autocast doesn't detect colossus due to its dual air/ground classification.
Didn't even know burrow had an autocast.... what the hell?
Well, it is stupid to use this autocast.. You want to blow up below the army, not for the first unit that passes. Especially as this first unit might just be a scouting marine/scv sent ahead, or a strong unit that gets not really hurt.
On July 24 2012 17:08 sc2terran wrote: the proverbial nail in the terran coffin imo.
Terran just won an MLG and they have been doing fine in GSL.
Yes, we're not all in GSL or competing in MLG
Pretty sure you just proved non terrans points. Bad players like yourself, want the game balanced for you. But I have a realization for you, it's not going to happen. So instead of playling 5 games a day like yourself, play 6-8 hours. Then maybe you will actually be good, common knowledge.
Oh so I should just play at GSL level in order to have a good time on the ladder? Amazing advice. Just like I said to all the protoss players when MC won GSL's "Just play more, like MC"
PvZ used to be my worst match up, but I doubled down and practiced some really strong openings for several weeks. It is now my best match up. This may come as a bit of a surprise, but my skill level did not increase to the point where I can compete in the GSL.
There is room between your current skill level and that of MKP, MVP and MC. The amount you need to improve is likely not as unobtainable as you may think.
Seems like a pretty good patch overall, dnd, better UI. I didn't test the beta nor did I watch any video so this will come at a surprise for me. Hope it's good
Pretty disappointing patch from blizzard. I suppose the only positive Terran players can take from this is that HOTS is that much closer...but HOTS new Terran units still do not change any of the issues that need addressing tbh.
Dont know how this is disappointing. It's way too early to change the balance again. I even say that as a terran player. This game really needs UI and bnet 2.0 improvements. I just hope they don't screw that up.
General Maximum selection size has been increased to 500, up from 255.
Finally, we've been waiting so long to be able to hold more units than we can produce in a single control group!
Not all units take up supply (such as infested terrans, mules, and overlords), and lings take less than one supply. Also, Zerg can exceed the 200 supply cap by canceling buildings =)
General Maximum selection size has been increased to 500, up from 255.
Finally, we've been waiting so long to be able to hold more units than we can produce in a single control group!
Not all units take up supply (such as infested terrans, mules, and overlords), and lings take less than one supply. Also, Zerg can exceed the 200 supply cap by canceling buildings =)
If anything the change is probably meant to support customs like marine arena
General Maximum selection size has been increased to 500, up from 255.
Finally, we've been waiting so long to be able to hold more units than we can produce in a single control group!
Not all units take up supply (such as infested terrans, mules, and overlords), and lings take less than one supply. Also, Zerg can exceed the 200 supply cap by canceling buildings =)
If anything the change is probably meant to support customs like marine arena
General Maximum selection size has been increased to 500, up from 255.
Finally, we've been waiting so long to be able to hold more units than we can produce in a single control group!
Not all units take up supply (such as infested terrans, mules, and overlords), and lings take less than one supply. Also, Zerg can exceed the 200 supply cap by canceling buildings =)
If anything the change is probably meant to support customs like marine arena
Seems to me like they realized that a huge portion of the community JUST plays custom games, ex: a ton of my friends :[ sadly they all have the 1v1 jitters
Looks like a solid patch. Amazing how half the posts are about balance when there were no balance changes. Haters gonna find a way to hate and no one will have nice things.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
Terran is next to dead in foreign tournaments.
Maybe they're doing better in Korean weeklies or something, I wouldn't know. But as a terran player who prefers to watch foreign tournaments, I haven't had much to watch lately.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
Terran is next to dead in foreign tournaments.
Maybe they're doing better in Korean weeklies or something, I wouldn't know. But as a terran player who prefers to watch foreign tournaments, I haven't had much to watch lately.
Fruitdealer wins 1st GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Nestea wins 2nd GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Teaja wins MLG Arena = Game is fine, if anything Terran is OP.
On July 24 2012 17:05 digmouse wrote: The Patch 1.5.0 release patch notes has just emerged from what looks like to be the embedded launcher PN page here
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
Terran is next to dead in foreign tournaments.
Maybe they're doing better in Korean weeklies or something, I wouldn't know. But as a terran player who prefers to watch foreign tournaments, I haven't had much to watch lately.
Taeja at the latest MLG arena?
If that supposed to make up for every other premium tournament prior to that having 0 terrans in top 8?
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Glad to see Blizzard has the maturity to realize it can take many months for metagame to evolve and that its too soon to act on the queens. Also looking forward to a more efficient game with cooler physics.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
Very true, but it's still true that any Terran other than a top-notch, Korean-trained one is having a really difficult time posting any results these days. Any time you see the random Terran make it deep in an international tournament, you can practically guarantee it's a Code S Korean.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
Terran is next to dead in foreign tournaments.
Maybe they're doing better in Korean weeklies or something, I wouldn't know. But as a terran player who prefers to watch foreign tournaments, I haven't had much to watch lately.
Taeja at the latest MLG arena?
If that supposed to make up for every other premium tournament prior to that having 0 terrans in top 8?
Never said anything like that.
Just suggested something since you have nothing to watch
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
Terran is next to dead in foreign tournaments.
Maybe they're doing better in Korean weeklies or something, I wouldn't know. But as a terran player who prefers to watch foreign tournaments, I haven't had much to watch lately.
Taeja at the latest MLG arena?
If that supposed to make up for every other premium tournament prior to that having 0 terrans in top 8?
There's a difference between the first 12 tournaments immediately after the patch, and the most recent 12 tournaments. In the more recent tournaments (after terrans had ample time to figure stuff out) they have been doing much better. The actual WINNER of a tournament isn't much balance related. If you look at brackets and take skill into consideration (and their personal best/worst matchup), they're not doing poorly.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
I think he meant to say that Taeja got lucky with having to face only 1 zerg (Losira who isn't so hot in zvt) in the tournament... ofc Taeja played fantastically in MLG.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
I think he meant to say that Taeja got lucky with having to face only 1 zerg (Losira who isn't so hot in zvt) in the tournament... ofc Taeja played fantastically in MLG.
I dunno, he kinda said exactly that Taeja lucky won a tournament.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
don t get me wrong, he played great and deserves the win, but on the other hand he had luck that stephano didn t made it into the finals because, against stephano it would have been a completely different story....look how stephano owned ryung, and ryungs TvZ is at least as good as taejas....
probably there is allways a little bit of luck required to win such a tornament at least when it comes to the mu and enemies that you have to play against......
all i want to say is that you can not say if TvZ is balanced or not due to one tornament win from a terran player who didn t even had to play against the best zergs out there....
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
Terran is next to dead in foreign tournaments.
Maybe they're doing better in Korean weeklies or something, I wouldn't know. But as a terran player who prefers to watch foreign tournaments, I haven't had much to watch lately.
Taeja at the latest MLG arena?
If that supposed to make up for every other premium tournament prior to that having 0 terrans in top 8?
Um...which premium tournament are these? There have been terrans in most of the top 8 for almost every tournament.
Taeja did play fantastic in the MLG. But he did only have to play one ZvT. Additionally Taeja is the first terran to win a major tournament since april I believe? I mean, thats a pretty big drought. When neural had like 9 range and Z's were dominating P in every game, I seem to remember that getting fixed rather quickly. And around that time when the EMP radius was pretty big, and T's were beating the crap out of P because of it, it got fixed relatively quickly. But for some reason, whenever there is something that gets buffed and it hurts a matchup vs T, they are just expected to "l2p." I don't get it.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
don t get me wrong, he played great and deserves the win, but on the other hand he had luck that stephano didn t made it into the finals because, against stephano it would have been a completely different story....look how stephano owned ryung, and ryungs TvZ is at least as good as taejas....
I am unimpressed with your argument and assumption that Stephano would have crushed Taeja. Until those finals are played at a different event, we don't know. And any claim otherwise is just that, a wild claim with little merit.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
I think he meant to say that Taeja got lucky with having to face only 1 zerg (Losira who isn't so hot in zvt) in the tournament... ofc Taeja played fantastically in MLG.
I dunno, he kinda said exactly that Taeja lucky won a tournament.
Taeja had a fortunate bracket, there is no denying that.
On July 25 2012 02:12 GinDo wrote: Fruitdealer wins 1st GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Nestea wins 2nd GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Teaja wins MLG Arena = Game is fine, if anything Terran is OP.
Terran: Needs a lategame transition. Essentially, this will most likely be a Mech buff.
Zerg: Needs a way to be able to win games before Hive, without going All-In. They also need more diversity.
Protoss: Need more diversity.
Really man? Season 1 should be left out, given NO ONE knew wtf was going on. He was the ONE zerg in final 8. And even then, mechanics were bad, all ins were VERY popular, and i dont think even magic boxing was around back then (iirc)
Furthermore, he did have the ultra splash bug on his side, lol.
Nestea had superior timings to prevent MKP's 2rax all in every game, lol.
The reason people say "its fine" (even tho, ive seen the IMG of the OMG Z WINNING) is because as of the last 2 weeks, its been very balanced in the matchup (tourneys, gstl, etc) -- it takes time to adapt to a buff (for the non buffed race)
Terran have a higher ability to get MORE for their units, since its all RDPS. And consistantly, since release, have won a ton. They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
However, I do agree in the 3 points u made in your spoiler.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
I think he meant to say that Taeja got lucky with having to face only 1 zerg (Losira who isn't so hot in zvt) in the tournament... ofc Taeja played fantastically in MLG.
I dunno, he kinda said exactly that Taeja lucky won a tournament.
Yeah, that's the meaning I got from it too. Taeja was easily the best player at that tourney, IMO. However, he was very lucky to not have played anymore TvZs, IMO, because it seems that any Zerg can upset a Terran atm.
On July 25 2012 02:28 uzushould wrote: don t get me wrong, he played great and deserves the win, but on the other hand he had luck that stephano didn t made it into the finals because, against stephano it would have been a completely different story....look how stephano owned ryung, and ryungs TvZ is at least as good as taejas....
probably there is allways a little bit of luck required to win such a tornament at least when it comes to the mu and enemies that you have to play against......
all i want to say is that you can not say if TvZ is balanced or not due to one tornament win from a terran player who didn t even had to play against the best zergs out there....
I feel like ryung gave stephano that series by going mech. If he would of just stuck to what won him game 1, he probably would of advanced. What just continues to perplex me is how bad a Z's control can be, but they can win the late game because of tech switches. "he knows I made BL's cause he just killed all of them, so he has to continue to make vikings. guess i'll just go ultra while he has at least 20 supply tied up in now useless vikings!"
On July 25 2012 02:12 GinDo wrote: Fruitdealer wins 1st GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Nestea wins 2nd GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Teaja wins MLG Arena = Game is fine, if anything Terran is OP.
Terran: Needs a lategame transition. Essentially, this will most likely be a Mech buff.
Zerg: Needs a way to be able to win games before Hive, without going All-In. They also need more diversity.
Protoss: Need more diversity.
Really man? Season 1 should be left out, given NO ONE knew wtf was going on. He was the ONE zerg in final 8. And even then, mechanics were bad, all ins were VERY popular, and i dont think even magic boxing was around back then (iirc)
Furthermore, he did have the ultra splash bug on his side, lol.
Nestea had superior timings to prevent MKP's 2rax all in every game, lol.
The reason people say "its fine" (even tho, ive seen the IMG of the OMG Z WINNING) is because as of the last 2 weeks, its been very balanced in the matchup (tourneys, gstl, etc) -- it takes time to adapt to a buff (for the non buffed race)
Terran have a higher ability to get MORE for their units, since its all RDPS. And consistantly, since release, have won a ton. They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
However, I do agree in the 3 points u made in your spoiler.
Let us not forget the unwatchable era of GomTvTvTvTvT. That part was left out of his post for some reason.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
don t get me wrong, he played great and deserves the win, but on the other hand he had luck that stephano didn t made it into the finals because, against stephano it would have been a completely different story....look how stephano owned ryung, and ryungs TvZ is at least as good as taejas....
I am unimpressed with your argument and assumption that Stephano would have crushed Taeja. Until those finals are played at a different event, we don't know. And any claim otherwise is just that, a wild claim with little merit.
ofc i could also claim to beat the shit out of stephano with handicap 50 and playing rnd while my right hand is bounded on my back and tell everyone who doesn t believe me that his mistrust is just a "wild claim with little merit".....you could say that about every match ever played anywhere.....there would never be a favorit or underdog if everyone argues like you do......
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
Terran is next to dead in foreign tournaments.
Maybe they're doing better in Korean weeklies or something, I wouldn't know. But as a terran player who prefers to watch foreign tournaments, I haven't had much to watch lately.
Taeja at the latest MLG arena?
If that supposed to make up for every other premium tournament prior to that having 0 terrans in top 8?
Um...which premium tournament are these? There have been terrans in most of the top 8 for almost every tournament.
On July 25 2012 02:36 Malpractice.248 wrote: They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
I'm just curious, but what ability is that? cause if you run 4-6 hellions in to kill a natural with 1 spine and 2 queens and don't kill any drones. you're pretty far behind.
Guys we all knew there wasn't going to be Balance changes, it amazes me that people think that Blizzard will put in Balance changes with no PTR. Patch 1.5 has been on beta for a considerable time and the UI is very slick, very excited!! Just when is it going to be released??
On July 25 2012 02:12 GinDo wrote: Fruitdealer wins 1st GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Nestea wins 2nd GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Teaja wins MLG Arena = Game is fine, if anything Terran is OP.
Terran: Needs a lategame transition. Essentially, this will most likely be a Mech buff.
Zerg: Needs a way to be able to win games before Hive, without going All-In. They also need more diversity.
Protoss: Need more diversity.
Really man? Season 1 should be left out, given NO ONE knew wtf was going on. He was the ONE zerg in final 8. And even then, mechanics were bad, all ins were VERY popular, and i dont think even magic boxing was around back then (iirc)
Furthermore, he did have the ultra splash bug on his side, lol.
Nestea had superior timings to prevent MKP's 2rax all in every game, lol.
The reason people say "its fine" (even tho, ive seen the IMG of the OMG Z WINNING) is because as of the last 2 weeks, its been very balanced in the matchup (tourneys, gstl, etc) -- it takes time to adapt to a buff (for the non buffed race)
Terran have a higher ability to get MORE for their units, since its all RDPS. And consistantly, since release, have won a ton. They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
However, I do agree in the 3 points u made in your spoiler.
Let us not forget the unwatchable era of GomTvTvTvTvT. That part was left out of his post for some reason.
Say what you want about GomTvTvTvT, but I watched basically every match back then and I watch hardly any matches now. That was before the BFH nerf, when TvT was the best matchup in the game when it was mech vs mech almost every time. Now it is just depressing and not very entertaining to watch basically every matchup as NR20.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
don t get me wrong, he played great and deserves the win, but on the other hand he had luck that stephano didn t made it into the finals because, against stephano it would have been a completely different story....look how stephano owned ryung, and ryungs TvZ is at least as good as taejas....
I am unimpressed with your argument and assumption that Stephano would have crushed Taeja. Until those finals are played at a different event, we don't know. And any claim otherwise is just that, a wild claim with little merit.
ofc i could also claim to beat the shit out of stephano with handicap 50 and playing rnd while my right hand is bounded on my back and tell everyone who doesn t believe me that his mistrust is just a "wild claim with little merit".....you could say that about every match ever played anywhere.....there would never be a favorit or underdog if everyone argues like you do......
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
don t get me wrong, he played great and deserves the win, but on the other hand he had luck that stephano didn t made it into the finals because, against stephano it would have been a completely different story....look how stephano owned ryung, and ryungs TvZ is at least as good as taejas....
I am unimpressed with your argument and assumption that Stephano would have crushed Taeja. Until those finals are played at a different event, we don't know. And any claim otherwise is just that, a wild claim with little merit.
ofc i could also claim to beat the shit out of stephano with handicap 50 and playing rnd while my right hand is bounded on my back and tell everyone who doesn t believe me that his mistrust is just a "wild claim with little merit".....you could say that about every match ever played anywhere.....there would never be a favorit or underdog if everyone argues like you do......
well i thought that it is pretty obvious that my example was very extreme on purpose to point out what i m trying to say, but you obviosly didn t get it. But in future i will make a note that this is overstated, for slow-witted guys like you.
btw. maybe you think posting wikipedia links makes you look smart, in fact, it doesnt.
I played quite a few custom as well as ladder games on the 1.5 beta. The game runs smoother, and has a few changes that make it feel more "concrete" (not sure how else to describe it).
For instance, you can really tell where a units vision ends in game. It is a much sharper contrast than the current build. There are other small touches that make boundaries in the game more clear cut.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
Very true, but it's still true that any Terran other than a top-notch, Korean-trained one is having a really difficult time posting any results these days. Any time you see the random Terran make it deep in an international tournament, you can practically guarantee it's a Code S Korean.
Foreigner terrans have always been bad relative to Korean terrans. Any time anyone makes it deep into an international tournament, you can practically guarantee it's a Code S Korean or Stephano.
On July 24 2012 17:32 BearStorm wrote: Why are some people upset that there are no balance changes? Even though I never play custom games, I appreciate the amount of content in this patch. I think we can all agree Blizzard should eventually do something to help the map makers and casuals who play customs. Some of those people have been waiting patiently.
well mostly because we dont show customs in the GSL/NASL/MLG?
What are you trying to say?
I said: I don't understand why people are upset that Blizzard released content for custom/casual players. They have been waiting.
You say: Because customs aren't in major tournaments
What does that have to do with anything? People are upset because Blizzard updated the UI and custom search, but didn't change something that affects tournaments? I don't see how you can be upset that there is an overall positive update to the UI because there are no balance changes that come with it. I could infer that you mean that the game is far from balance and that Blizzard needs to focus on tweaking the gameplay, but that's simply not true. Or did you not mean to quote me simply wanted to make a separate point?
Please deconvolute your post. I am very interested in seeing the reasoning behind your statement.
On July 25 2012 02:36 Malpractice.248 wrote: They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
I'm just curious, but what ability is that? cause if you run 4-6 hellions in to kill a natural with 1 spine and 2 queens and don't kill any drones. you're pretty far behind.
well, you don't need to kill drones. factory will make tanks, reactor for rines. those hellions will limit creep spread, force lings or spine or queens, which costs larva (important early) or limits your ability as z to be aggressive.
you'll also get scouting, map control, and potentially get a z to overreact.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
I do believe Zerg has won something like 65% of the pro tournaments since the latest patch. According to stats used on Inside the game.
On July 25 2012 02:36 Malpractice.248 wrote: They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
I'm just curious, but what ability is that? cause if you run 4-6 hellions in to kill a natural with 1 spine and 2 queens and don't kill any drones. you're pretty far behind.
well, you don't need to kill drones. factory will make tanks, reactor for rines. those hellions will limit creep spread, force lings or spine or queens, which costs larva (important early) or limits your ability as z to be aggressive.
you'll also get scouting, map control, and potentially get a z to overreact.
those small things matter.
You can't effectively limit creep spread vs 3 base 6 queens anymore. I mean you can try to be cute and kill the new tumor under the queen by attacking it, but 6 hellions kill 1 queen, after the queen kills 2 of them i believe.
You MIGHT get the Z to overreact and build some lings, but you're just safer if you build 1-2 more queens vs hellions, and MAYBE a spine. if you have a smaller ramp, you can just double evo+1 queen block it, and the hellions are never getting in. There is still a lot of risk involved in a T trying to damage the Z's economy early, but if you don't, you're either gambling that you can be as equally greedy without being equally safe, or you're gambling that he won't have a good sim city, or enough queens to defend your hellions.
Additionally, very very few T's are playing Tank/marine anymore vs Z. Tanks just aren't as cost effective as more Medivacs are, and with the queen buff you can much more easily push creep out, which means your'e fighting on creep more often. As soon as the unseige happens, Z can just rush in, fungal and tanks are now useless.
The whole matchup is in a really weird place right now, and I'm hoping someone a lot better and smarter than me figures out something to make it slightly more manageable. Because right now I'm playing just hoping that I don't get scouted, or that the Z i'm playing against is bad and doesn't sim well.
On July 25 2012 02:36 Malpractice.248 wrote: They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
I'm just curious, but what ability is that? cause if you run 4-6 hellions in to kill a natural with 1 spine and 2 queens and don't kill any drones. you're pretty far behind.
well, you don't need to kill drones. factory will make tanks, reactor for rines. those hellions will limit creep spread, force lings or spine or queens, which costs larva (important early) or limits your ability as z to be aggressive.
you'll also get scouting, map control, and potentially get a z to overreact.
those small things matter.
Sounds like you haven't played the past months. Saying that as a master random player
Wait what, lifted banelings still damage units on the ground? Did not know O.O
If bomb exploded over you had, you will still have no damage?
Just to compare: a Baneling exploding and hurting ground units while being held by a Phoenix is like someone throwing a grenade off a skyscraper and someone on the ground being injured by the midair explosion. Mind you, I don't know how low Phoenixes fly, but it has to be higher than every structure.
On July 25 2012 02:36 Malpractice.248 wrote: They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
I'm just curious, but what ability is that? cause if you run 4-6 hellions in to kill a natural with 1 spine and 2 queens and don't kill any drones. you're pretty far behind.
well, you don't need to kill drones. factory will make tanks, reactor for rines. those hellions will limit creep spread, force lings or spine or queens, which costs larva (important early) or limits your ability as z to be aggressive.
you'll also get scouting, map control, and potentially get a z to overreact.
those small things matter.
Sounds like you haven't played the past months. Saying that as a master random player
Do you believe random players are the spearhead of the advancing metagame? When the solution is ready, you will be one of the last to know.
On July 25 2012 02:36 Malpractice.248 wrote: They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
I'm just curious, but what ability is that? cause if you run 4-6 hellions in to kill a natural with 1 spine and 2 queens and don't kill any drones. you're pretty far behind.
well, you don't need to kill drones. factory will make tanks, reactor for rines. those hellions will limit creep spread, force lings or spine or queens, which costs larva (important early) or limits your ability as z to be aggressive.
you'll also get scouting, map control, and potentially get a z to overreact.
those small things matter.
You can't effectively limit creep spread vs 3 base 6 queens anymore. I mean you can try to be cute and kill the new tumor under the queen by attacking it, but 6 hellions kill 1 queen, after the queen kills 2 of them i believe.
You MIGHT get the Z to overreact and build some lings, but you're just safer if you build 1-2 more queens vs hellions, and MAYBE a spine. if you have a smaller ramp, you can just double evo+1 queen block it, and the hellions are never getting in. There is still a lot of risk involved in a T trying to damage the Z's economy early, but if you don't, you're either gambling that you can be as equally greedy without being equally safe, or you're gambling that he won't have a good sim city, or enough queens to defend your hellions.
Additionally, very very few T's are playing Tank/marine anymore vs Z. Tanks just aren't as cost effective as more Medivacs are, and with the queen buff you can much more easily push creep out, which means your'e fighting on creep more often. As soon as the unseige happens, Z can just rush in, fungal and tanks are now useless.
The whole matchup is in a really weird place right now, and I'm hoping someone a lot better and smarter than me figures out something to make it slightly more manageable. Because right now I'm playing just hoping that I don't get scouted, or that the Z i'm playing against is bad and doesn't sim well.
The last two major tournaments MLG arena was a Terran winner and GSL is going to be a Toss. Not saying this is the end all be all for balance but...If you watched MarineKing dominate also late game against the unbeatable corrupter/broodlord and infestor. With his Raven/BattleCruiser you'll see ways to win.
I like that blizz is leaving balance alone for a bit. Patching balance too often takes a great deal of thought in a game like this with 3 races, and leaving it alone when each matchup is evolving further into more macro oriented play is great. The queen change may have caused a great shift in how TvZ is played, but it also made defensive play in ZvZ actually doable. Doing another balance patch with overwhelming changes that encourage a different way to play is not the way to change the metagame. Players need to do that themselves through innovation and experimentation, just like in BW.
As for the UI changes, I love them. It felt so clean when I used the arcade beta and hopefully some cool games can come from it too. Props to blizz for wanting to improve their product.
On July 25 2012 02:36 Malpractice.248 wrote: They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
I'm just curious, but what ability is that? cause if you run 4-6 hellions in to kill a natural with 1 spine and 2 queens and don't kill any drones. you're pretty far behind.
well, you don't need to kill drones. factory will make tanks, reactor for rines. those hellions will limit creep spread, force lings or spine or queens, which costs larva (important early) or limits your ability as z to be aggressive.
you'll also get scouting, map control, and potentially get a z to overreact.
those small things matter.
You can't effectively limit creep spread vs 3 base 6 queens anymore. I mean you can try to be cute and kill the new tumor under the queen by attacking it, but 6 hellions kill 1 queen, after the queen kills 2 of them i believe.
You MIGHT get the Z to overreact and build some lings, but you're just safer if you build 1-2 more queens vs hellions, and MAYBE a spine. if you have a smaller ramp, you can just double evo+1 queen block it, and the hellions are never getting in. There is still a lot of risk involved in a T trying to damage the Z's economy early, but if you don't, you're either gambling that you can be as equally greedy without being equally safe, or you're gambling that he won't have a good sim city, or enough queens to defend your hellions.
Additionally, very very few T's are playing Tank/marine anymore vs Z. Tanks just aren't as cost effective as more Medivacs are, and with the queen buff you can much more easily push creep out, which means your'e fighting on creep more often. As soon as the unseige happens, Z can just rush in, fungal and tanks are now useless.
The whole matchup is in a really weird place right now, and I'm hoping someone a lot better and smarter than me figures out something to make it slightly more manageable. Because right now I'm playing just hoping that I don't get scouted, or that the Z i'm playing against is bad and doesn't sim well.
The last two major tournaments MLG arena was a Terran winner and GSL is going to be a Toss. Not saying this is the end all be all for balance but...If you watched MarineKing dominate also late game against the unbeatable corrupter/broodlord and infestor. With his Raven/BattleCruiser you'll see ways to win.
Here's a spin on the question a different way: is TvZ entertaining anymore? Does anyone actually like (in a spectating sense, not because you don't have to worry about the early game anymore on ladder) watching the first 10 minutes of every TvZ be 3 hatch vs 3 OC and mindless Droning vs mindless MULEing? Does anything actually prefer this, setting aside whether it's balanced for a moment?
On July 25 2012 03:42 Coolness53 wrote: The last two major tournaments MLG arena was a Terran winner and GSL is going to be a Toss. Not saying this is the end all be all for balance but...If you watched MarineKing dominate also late game against the unbeatable corrupter/broodlord and infestor. With his Raven/BattleCruiser you'll see ways to win.
I didn't say it was unbalanced, I said it was in a weird spot. I know there has to be a way of damaging Z's econ early enough that late game T3 units don't just show up on the map at 14minutes when I'm at like 140 with no vikings out. the Raven/BC argument is a pretty weird one that Z players have been throwing about. I personally don't know when to make this switch, and thats the ONLY game I've seen a T get away with it vs Z. I mean, whats to stop a Z from losing an engage vs that and building 50 lings, and killing off all of your scv's? and now you have no economy to support your 300/300 200/200 building units?
I'm trying to figure out when the game has stagnated enough to switch to BC/Raven because that seems to be the best answer, but a lot of times I just don't have enough units out and the Z just builds lings and kills me before I get sufficient BC/Ravens out. Also, I'm not MKP, and no other terrans are, so it makes sense that that is the only game we've seen raven/bc.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
I do believe Zerg has won something like 65% of the pro tournaments since the latest patch. According to stats used on Inside the game.
That feels like a highly accurate stat, and is absolutely not an expedient falsehood to bolster your balance argument.
On July 25 2012 02:36 Malpractice.248 wrote: They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
I'm just curious, but what ability is that? cause if you run 4-6 hellions in to kill a natural with 1 spine and 2 queens and don't kill any drones. you're pretty far behind.
well, you don't need to kill drones. factory will make tanks, reactor for rines. those hellions will limit creep spread, force lings or spine or queens, which costs larva (important early) or limits your ability as z to be aggressive.
you'll also get scouting, map control, and potentially get a z to overreact.
those small things matter.
Sounds like you haven't played the past months. Saying that as a master random player
no, I have. and 6 queens is still a lot of minerals, which sets back tech and limits aggressive potential early by z. you don't need the hellions. I'm just saying what they can do.
I'm sorry this is gonna sound very noob-ish,, what does increasing the maximum selection size will do ?? and what will be the difference between the current and the 1.50 patch ?
On July 25 2012 02:36 Malpractice.248 wrote: They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
I'm just curious, but what ability is that? cause if you run 4-6 hellions in to kill a natural with 1 spine and 2 queens and don't kill any drones. you're pretty far behind.
well, you don't need to kill drones. factory will make tanks, reactor for rines. those hellions will limit creep spread, force lings or spine or queens, which costs larva (important early) or limits your ability as z to be aggressive.
you'll also get scouting, map control, and potentially get a z to overreact.
those small things matter.
Sounds like you haven't played the past months. Saying that as a master random player
no, I have. and 6 queens is still a lot of minerals, which sets back tech and limits aggressive potential early by z. you don't need the hellions. I'm just saying what they can do.
What agressive potential does zerg really need when they can ensure their unkillable doom army? Remember when there was a blizzard post about how they were looking at infestor/broodlord as potentially too strong vs terran before people were using ghosts? Then people start using ghosts and ghosts get nerfed, leaving the same underlying issue
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
I do believe Zerg has won something like 65% of the pro tournaments since the latest patch. According to stats used on Inside the game.
That feels like a highly accurate stat, and is absolutely not an expedient falsehood to bolster your balance argument.
there's no way its 65%. Maybe If you're including like WCS's, and teamleagues? maybe? I'd like to see a link before I buy that piece of information.
On July 25 2012 03:57 AlbertHR wrote: I'm sorry this is gonna sound very noob-ish,, what does increasing the maximum selection size will do ?? and what will be the difference between the current and the 1.50 patch ?
Currently, you can select at the most 255 units at the same time. As in, an army of Zerglings with 130 supply Lings. They are upping this limit to 500. Mostly for custom games.
On July 25 2012 03:52 Thamel wrote: I like that blizz is leaving balance alone for a bit. Patching balance too often takes a great deal of thought in a game like this with 3 races, and leaving it alone when each matchup is evolving further into more macro oriented play is great. The queen change may have caused a great shift in how TvZ is played, but it also made defensive play in ZvZ actually doable. Doing another balance patch with overwhelming changes that encourage a different way to play is not the way to change the metagame. Players need to do that themselves through innovation and experimentation, just like in BW.
As for the UI changes, I love them. It felt so clean when I used the arcade beta and hopefully some cool games can come from it too. Props to blizz for wanting to improve their product.
and of course u where of the same oppinion 2 years ago when siegetank lines crushed zergs on steps of war....you thought, damn players need to do that metagameshit themselfs through innovation (i mean back then innovation must even have been much easier since the game was not figgured as good as now)........i d bet my right hand that you where not saying or thinking this back then....and probably never through out the last 2 years when terran was really op....but now suddenly when your race is op you think of it another way....am i right?
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
I think he meant to say that Taeja got lucky with having to face only 1 zerg (Losira who isn't so hot in zvt) in the tournament... ofc Taeja played fantastically in MLG.
I dunno, he kinda said exactly that Taeja lucky won a tournament.
Taeja had a fortunate bracket, there is no denying that.
Taeja also has some of the finest TvZ I've seen recently. He has decent odds to beat all the Zergs there imo..
Interesting patch, I like it. I appreciate that they're trying to fix so many subtle things, whether they be significant or not. The graphics improvement and perfomance optimizations are much weclome too.
On July 25 2012 04:03 uzushould wrote: and of course u where of the same oppinion 2 years ago when siegetank lines crushed zergs on steps of war....you thought, damn players need to do that metagameshit themselfs through innovation (i mean back then innovation must even have been much easier since the game was not figgured as good as now)........i d bet my right hand that you where not saying or thinking this back then....and probably never through out the last 2 years when terran was really op....but now suddenly when your race is op you think of it another way....am i right?
Screw off. I wasn't saying that stuff back then because I hardly followed the scene or played/thought about it seriously at all (look at my join date). Balance, at this point, SHOULD be left alone because the statistics are actually close (If ladder is still skewed in terran favor in TvZ, it's mapmaking) instead of terran dumping on all other races. If you think about the changes to terran that brought the game to this (Nearly every T unit has faced some nerf now that I think about it), you could tell that the game was poorly made originally, but also good innovation by smart players helped to deal with it as well, along with good mapmaking by tournaments / ESV. Also, I'm not a terran player, so it shows how much of a jackass you really are for assuming that when I give something positive to blizz not changing balance. Balance changes also put a big asterisk on tournaments that are closely after them, just because of so little practice on the patch compared to the overall practice players perform.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
I do believe Zerg has won something like 65% of the pro tournaments since the latest patch. According to stats used on Inside the game.
That feels like a highly accurate stat, and is absolutely not an expedient falsehood to bolster your balance argument.
there's no way its 65%. Maybe If you're including like WCS's, and teamleagues? maybe? I'd like to see a link before I buy that piece of information.
think he is refering to recent wins since queen buff graph?
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
I do believe Zerg has won something like 65% of the pro tournaments since the latest patch. According to stats used on Inside the game.
That feels like a highly accurate stat, and is absolutely not an expedient falsehood to bolster your balance argument.
there's no way its 65%. Maybe If you're including like WCS's, and teamleagues? maybe? I'd like to see a link before I buy that piece of information.
think he is refering to recent wins since queen buff graph?
this community is pure gargabe. bnet seems that will be improved a lot, and yet only a small % of the posts of this topic talks about it, which is, like it or not, the main reason the game is slowing but surely dying.
stop talking about balance. the game is fine and it games a while to adapt to it. compare to WC3 and then you`ll see what is really imbalance.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
I do believe Zerg has won something like 65% of the pro tournaments since the latest patch. According to stats used on Inside the game.
That feels like a highly accurate stat, and is absolutely not an expedient falsehood to bolster your balance argument.
there's no way its 65%. Maybe If you're including like WCS's, and teamleagues? maybe? I'd like to see a link before I buy that piece of information.
they talked about it on ITG. of the 35 events since the last patch, zerg has won 22, protoss 10, and terran 3.
On July 25 2012 02:12 GinDo wrote: Fruitdealer wins 1st GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Nestea wins 2nd GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Teaja wins MLG Arena = Game is fine, if anything Terran is OP.
Terran: Needs a lategame transition. Essentially, this will most likely be a Mech buff.
Zerg: Needs a way to be able to win games before Hive, without going All-In. They also need more diversity.
Protoss: Need more diversity.
Really man? Season 1 should be left out, given NO ONE knew wtf was going on. He was the ONE zerg in final 8. And even then, mechanics were bad, all ins were VERY popular, and i dont think even magic boxing was around back then (iirc)
Furthermore, he did have the ultra splash bug on his side, lol.
Nestea had superior timings to prevent MKP's 2rax all in every game, lol.
The reason people say "its fine" (even tho, ive seen the IMG of the OMG Z WINNING) is because as of the last 2 weeks, its been very balanced in the matchup (tourneys, gstl, etc) -- it takes time to adapt to a buff (for the non buffed race)
Terran have a higher ability to get MORE for their units, since its all RDPS. And consistantly, since release, have won a ton. They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
However, I do agree in the 3 points u made in your spoiler.
Let us not forget the unwatchable era of GomTvTvTvTvT. That part was left out of his post for some reason.
Say what you want about GomTvTvTvT, but I watched basically every match back then and I watch hardly any matches now. That was before the BFH nerf, when TvT was the best matchup in the game when it was mech vs mech almost every time. Now it is just depressing and not very entertaining to watch basically every matchup as NR20.
I will say TvT was much better before the Hellion Nerf. Now it just seems like; He made *Blank* = Make More Marines.
The only weakness Marines have in TvT are positional, which are easily overcame by the fact that Medics are also dropships.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
I do believe Zerg has won something like 65% of the pro tournaments since the latest patch. According to stats used on Inside the game.
That feels like a highly accurate stat, and is absolutely not an expedient falsehood to bolster your balance argument.
there's no way its 65%. Maybe If you're including like WCS's, and teamleagues? maybe? I'd like to see a link before I buy that piece of information.
think he is refering to recent wins since queen buff graph?
On July 25 2012 03:57 AlbertHR wrote: I'm sorry this is gonna sound very noob-ish,, what does increasing the maximum selection size will do ?? and what will be the difference between the current and the 1.50 patch ?
Good point, I know it'll help out with marine arena and probably other custom games.
On July 25 2012 02:12 GinDo wrote: Fruitdealer wins 1st GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Nestea wins 2nd GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Teaja wins MLG Arena = Game is fine, if anything Terran is OP.
Terran: Needs a lategame transition. Essentially, this will most likely be a Mech buff.
Zerg: Needs a way to be able to win games before Hive, without going All-In. They also need more diversity.
Protoss: Need more diversity.
Really man? Season 1 should be left out, given NO ONE knew wtf was going on. He was the ONE zerg in final 8. And even then, mechanics were bad, all ins were VERY popular, and i dont think even magic boxing was around back then (iirc)
Furthermore, he did have the ultra splash bug on his side, lol.
Nestea had superior timings to prevent MKP's 2rax all in every game, lol.
The reason people say "its fine" (even tho, ive seen the IMG of the OMG Z WINNING) is because as of the last 2 weeks, its been very balanced in the matchup (tourneys, gstl, etc) -- it takes time to adapt to a buff (for the non buffed race)
Terran have a higher ability to get MORE for their units, since its all RDPS. And consistantly, since release, have won a ton. They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
However, I do agree in the 3 points u made in your spoiler.
Let us not forget the unwatchable era of GomTvTvTvTvT. That part was left out of his post for some reason.
Say what you want about GomTvTvTvT, but I watched basically every match back then and I watch hardly any matches now. That was before the BFH nerf, when TvT was the best matchup in the game when it was mech vs mech almost every time. Now it is just depressing and not very entertaining to watch basically every matchup as NR20.
I will say TvT was much better before the Hellion Nerf. Now it just seems like; He made *Blank* = Make More Marines.
The only weakness Marines have in TvT are positional, which are easily overcame by the fact that Medics are also dropships.
maybe I'm remembering wrong but weren't TvTs back then prone to get into the mass SkyTerran battles because of BFH? that was cool once, but every other time was just boring as shit
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
Very true, but it's still true that any Terran other than a top-notch, Korean-trained one is having a really difficult time posting any results these days. Any time you see the random Terran make it deep in an international tournament, you can practically guarantee it's a Code S Korean.
Foreigner terrans have always been bad relative to Korean terrans. Any time anyone makes it deep into an international tournament, you can practically guarantee it's a Code S Korean or Stephano.
Holy God that was a lot of data to sift through. Anyway, if you spend the time looking through that you'll see that non-Korean Terrans have had much worse performance in 2012 compared to other non-Koreans playing Protoss and Zerg. On top of that, it also shows the idea of Stephano being the only foreigner to place deep in Korean-studded brackets to be completely bunk.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
I think he meant to say that Taeja got lucky with having to face only 1 zerg (Losira who isn't so hot in zvt) in the tournament... ofc Taeja played fantastically in MLG.
I dunno, he kinda said exactly that Taeja lucky won a tournament.
Taeja had a fortunate bracket, there is no denying that.
Taeja also has some of the finest TvZ I've seen recently. He has decent odds to beat all the Zergs there imo..
But still, dodging zerg is pretty cool haha
There weren't exactly a million Code S Zergs to begin with.
On July 25 2012 04:03 uzushould wrote: and of course u where of the same oppinion 2 years ago when siegetank lines crushed zergs on steps of war....you thought, damn players need to do that metagameshit themselfs through innovation (i mean back then innovation must even have been much easier since the game was not figgured as good as now)........i d bet my right hand that you where not saying or thinking this back then....and probably never through out the last 2 years when terran was really op....but now suddenly when your race is op you think of it another way....am i right?
Screw off. I wasn't saying that stuff back then because I hardly followed the scene or played/thought about it seriously at all (look at my join date). Balance, at this point, SHOULD be left alone because the statistics are actually close (If ladder is still skewed in terran favor in TvZ, it's mapmaking) instead of terran dumping on all other races. If you think about the changes to terran that brought the game to this (Nearly every T unit has faced some nerf now that I think about it), you could tell that the game was poorly made originally, but also good innovation by smart players helped to deal with it as well, along with good mapmaking by tournaments / ESV. Also, I'm not a terran player, so it shows how much of a jackass you really are for assuming that when I give something positive to blizz not changing balance. Balance changes also put a big asterisk on tournaments that are closely after them, just because of so little practice on the patch compared to the overall practice players perform.
your the jackass because you just lie and say statistics are close while in fact they absolutely aren t.....and if you would have followed the hole discussion everywhere just a tiny little bit, you would know that there is 40 % zerg in gm while there are only 20 % terrans, that Z won 50 % of the last tornaments while terra did not even win 10 %......and then you come here and post some bullshit about statistics saying the matchup is balanced? guys like you make me sick
On July 24 2012 19:35 Fus wrote: I think Blizzard stated long ago that there would be no balance changes untill HOTS
Yup. This is true.
The only thing I have an issue with currently is the Creep Spread. It's insane that zerg can basically have 80% map hack by 9 minutes into the game. But we will see what HOTS brings to the table I guess.
I am loving that swarm host. I will build one, and I will camp it outside their base and surround it with banelings and that one swarm host will keep spewing out locust and keep hitting them like a finger poking the opponents one nipple. Then they would move out to take it out and BOOM. Mmmmmmm I will be doing that while fapping.
When they scan to see your Swarm Host, they'd see your Banelings...
On July 24 2012 18:00 urashimakt wrote: I was a bit worried that 1.5 would bring some whimsical balance changes with it. I'm glad it didn't.
Why you was worried abouth that ? Its clear from months that 1.5 is ONLY INTERFACE Patch , to prepere WoL client for HOTS.
There was so LONG disscusion abouth this patch , when ptr beta start , you all miss it ? or wtf...
I labelled a possible change as whimsical for a reason. Just because Blizzard planned not to release any balance related changes doesn't mean they wouldn't in the end.
I was invited to the arcade alpha and I followed the arcade beta. I kept up to date on what patch 1.5 was supposed to be about. I'm glad it kept on that.
"It is no longer possible to queue up multiple build commands using a single Drone."
destroyed my opening strategy in Desert Strike (UMS) as zerg. now i cant trick the other players into thinking im building when i am in fact just queuing and plan on building a geyser. damn you blizzard!!
On July 25 2012 02:12 GinDo wrote: Fruitdealer wins 1st GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Nestea wins 2nd GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Teaja wins MLG Arena = Game is fine, if anything Terran is OP.
Terran: Needs a lategame transition. Essentially, this will most likely be a Mech buff.
Zerg: Needs a way to be able to win games before Hive, without going All-In. They also need more diversity.
Protoss: Need more diversity.
Really man? Season 1 should be left out, given NO ONE knew wtf was going on. He was the ONE zerg in final 8. And even then, mechanics were bad, all ins were VERY popular, and i dont think even magic boxing was around back then (iirc)
Furthermore, he did have the ultra splash bug on his side, lol.
Nestea had superior timings to prevent MKP's 2rax all in every game, lol.
The reason people say "its fine" (even tho, ive seen the IMG of the OMG Z WINNING) is because as of the last 2 weeks, its been very balanced in the matchup (tourneys, gstl, etc) -- it takes time to adapt to a buff (for the non buffed race)
Terran have a higher ability to get MORE for their units, since its all RDPS. And consistantly, since release, have won a ton. They also, in ZvT, have had the ability to harshly disrupt Z macro early game without much risk to themselves.
However, I do agree in the 3 points u made in your spoiler.
Let us not forget the unwatchable era of GomTvTvTvTvT. That part was left out of his post for some reason.
Say what you want about GomTvTvTvT, but I watched basically every match back then and I watch hardly any matches now. That was before the BFH nerf, when TvT was the best matchup in the game when it was mech vs mech almost every time. Now it is just depressing and not very entertaining to watch basically every matchup as NR20.
I will say TvT was much better before the Hellion Nerf. Now it just seems like; He made *Blank* = Make More Marines.
The only weakness Marines have in TvT are positional, which are easily overcame by the fact that Medics are also dropships.
maybe I'm remembering wrong but weren't TvTs back then prone to get into the mass SkyTerran battles because of BFH? that was cool once, but every other time was just boring as shit
Only very late into the game. But this style was questionable. Thor > Viking+Banshee > BC > Thors. Then there's the addition of the PDD, Seeker Missile, the EMP, and the Nuke in all three styles. It was a very dynamic lategame. You couldn't really make Marines, because Hellions steamroll them, and as a result you could build tons of other units like Thors and BC's which Marines would normally shit on.
On July 25 2012 05:19 dAPhREAk wrote: "It is no longer possible to queue up multiple build commands using a single Drone."
destroyed my opening strategy in Desert Strike (UMS) as zerg. now i cant trick the other players into thinking im building when i am in fact just queuing and plan on building a geyser. damn you blizzard!!
In desert strike drone does not mutate into building.
In standart games you were able to do multiple commands for drone after building, but when it comes to building, it finished with red error message like "Can't do that command" after starting morphing into a building
On July 25 2012 05:19 dAPhREAk wrote: "It is no longer possible to queue up multiple build commands using a single Drone."
destroyed my opening strategy in Desert Strike (UMS) as zerg. now i cant trick the other players into thinking im building when i am in fact just queuing and plan on building a geyser. damn you blizzard!!
In desert strike drone does not mutate into building.
In standart games you were able to do multiple commands for drone after building, but when it comes to building, it finished with red error message like "Can't do that command" after starting morphing into a building
It woudd have been funny to see a spinecrawler morph into a baneling nest ;_; ah well. This seems mostly like bug fixes and the like.
On July 24 2012 20:28 Jakkerr wrote: No balance changes proscene is pretty balanced atm. I understand that terran is harder to play in the lower leagues, but changes to fix that would disturb competitive balance again.
wtf I like competitive gaming but I haven't bought this game to see a few players playing in my stead. I want a game balanced for the lower league I don't care if the game is balanced for 200 people out of 300K ! Lets just sacrifice the 170K terran player of this game that are not in GM league for the professional gaming sake ! Your are so right !
LOL, walk right on sir.
The game has to be balanced for competitive, these people are earning their money through playing this game. If it's unfair there's no reason to play the game for any reason, or everyone would be the same race. If the competitive scene dies out, casual scene dies out very soon after it.
A game can only survive if it has a competitive scene. It's how money is pumped into the game and how it keeps being active. It gives new players incentive to get better and so on.
On July 24 2012 17:12 Bensio wrote: I'm so glad there are no balance changes, nice that blizz have slowed down with changing stuff since the game is pretty balanced right now and HotS will knock that shit in the air anyway.
I do believe Zerg has won something like 65% of the pro tournaments since the latest patch. According to stats used on Inside the game.
That feels like a highly accurate stat, and is absolutely not an expedient falsehood to bolster your balance argument.
Falsehood or not, it's what was discussed by professional players on ITG. Do you have better information than them?
On July 25 2012 06:09 Roxor9999 wrote: Even a non balance patch turns into a balance discussion!
All threads will become a balance discussion under the new world order. The close we get to 50% across the board, even threads about cooking, dating and Korean Fashion/music will focus around the Queen Buff and how it makes it impossible to make a good keish while dating a fashionable K-pop star.
>The new Open Games List displays games that have players, but aren't full and ready to start yet. This should help players identify active games and find partners or opponents more easily.
Finally. Let's hope this can breath some new life into the custom game scene.
On July 24 2012 19:58 Paradise` wrote: Really? We're just going to keep on playing this op zerg fucking game huh? sounds fun to me.
GSL no zerg, MLG terran won and the other tournament was a Protoss galore.
Still i am not crying about balance cause with HOTS it will all be different anyway.
Zerg is the best race in the game... terran / protoss have to outplay them so hard just to win (this is not whining just speaking the truth)
Actually that is complaining / whining, and it isn't speaking the truth, it is a biast opinion that is not true at all, i'm sure you don't and have never played zerg at a high level, so please just.... be quiet.
"A player who logs out of the game during a match countdown now receives a point loss. The other player now receives a message that the opposing player has canceled the queue and neither receives a point bonus nor penalty." From the Battle.net page. I think this might actually be really huge for Deezer and other stream snipers.
On July 25 2012 06:10 ensign_lee wrote: "Banelings lifted by phoenixes now use proper visual indication when detonating and damaging units below them. "
Wait; wtf? If you lift a baneling and kill it it will explode and hurt the units under it?!?!
Take a water balloon and hold it above your head. Then take a knife and poke a hole in the balloon. You probably get wet.
If the water ballon would have been a baneling then you would have covered your face with burning acid.
It would make less sense if the units under a lifted baneling didn't take damage.
On July 25 2012 06:10 ensign_lee wrote: "Banelings lifted by phoenixes now use proper visual indication when detonating and damaging units below them. "
Wait; wtf? If you lift a baneling and kill it it will explode and hurt the units under it?!?!
Take a water balloon and hold it above your head. Then take a knife and poke a hole in the balloon. You probably get wet.
If the water ballon would have been a baneling then you would have covered your face with burning acid.
It would make less sense if the units under a lifted baneling didn't take damage.
thinking that way a phoenix should be able to shoot down to the ground
When you play the beta 1.5 everything is different, for example stim costs 150/150, and observers are 50/100. There are many many more, but I wonder if they were just tweaking everything to see what happened or if they were seriously considering any of those changes.
On July 25 2012 07:57 thurst0n wrote: When you play the beta 1.5 everything is different, for example stim costs 150/150, and observers are 50/100. There are many many more, but I wonder if they were just tweaking everything to see what happened or if they were seriously considering any of those changes.
This has been talked about before (and i'm pretty sure has been fixed in the latest beta patches), the game data was just a bunch of old patches mashed together because it's not what they were testing, I don't think they're seriously considering bringing back for instance, 1 supply roaches, at this point.
On July 25 2012 07:57 thurst0n wrote: When you play the beta 1.5 everything is different, for example stim costs 150/150, and observers are 50/100. There are many many more, but I wonder if they were just tweaking everything to see what happened or if they were seriously considering any of those changes.
This has been talked about before (and i'm pretty sure has been fixed in the latest beta patches), the game data was just a bunch of old patches mashed together because it's not what they were testing, I don't think they're seriously considering bringing back for instance, 1 supply roaches, at this point.
That was like way at the start, the first beta patch brought the balance up to sc2 1.4.4 level.
seriously guys, quit bitching about balance. there's a thread for that, don't clog up this one (especially when there weren't even any balance changes)
otherwise, I'm excited about the rest of the stuff. not detrimental, and i feel there won't be many more balance changes until HotS
On July 25 2012 08:01 navy wrote: I'm surprised there were no balance changes... I was really expecting queen ground range to 4, and I play zerg. I think that would be appropriate.
At the very least, it would be worth PTRing. I admit some bias, as I would like to be able to run my Probes around more and FF off Queens with added coolness.
The patch notes has been published on the battle.net forums, it has changes not listed in the OP. One that I am particularly looking forward to is the addition of anti aliasing, mmmm!
On July 25 2012 06:10 ensign_lee wrote: "Banelings lifted by phoenixes now use proper visual indication when detonating and damaging units below them. "
Wait; wtf? If you lift a baneling and kill it it will explode and hurt the units under it?!?!
Take a water balloon and hold it above your head. Then take a knife and poke a hole in the balloon. You probably get wet.
If the water ballon would have been a baneling then you would have covered your face with burning acid.
It would make less sense if the units under a lifted baneling didn't take damage.
By that logic, any air units shot down should crash into the ground and damage units underneath. :D
It's just not something that's intuitive based on gameplay and design. hehe.
The patch notes has been published on the battle.net forums, it has changes not listed in the OP. One that I am particularly looking forward to is the addition of anti aliasing, mmmm!
Look at title
Patch Notes - 1.5.0 Arcade Beta
These changes are for Arcade. In the OP you can see some new changes, like Drone bug fix with queue commands and other stuff
The patch notes has been published on the battle.net forums, it has changes not listed in the OP. One that I am particularly looking forward to is the addition of anti aliasing, mmmm!
In 1.5.0, like in Diablo 3, there are new system, that checks EVERY file, no matter, it was added or it replaces old file. I hope there will be still some ways to add your own files to the game, but what I can say, that they're revamped game client.
In Diablo 3 it's not possible to change game localization via replacing SAME files (!!!) and renaming enGB to something other. It starts redownload renamed (!!) files again.
But that can be good at other side, because there can be less maphackers, that are able to alter game resources too, with same ways, as many did custom backgrounds, stronger team color mods, etc
I really doubt blizzard would make any major balance changes with hots coming so soon. Why bother changing a game which is about to reset anyway? that or blizzard actually does hate terran.
On July 25 2012 11:43 pewpew415 wrote: I really doubt blizzard would make any major balance changes with hots coming so soon. Why bother changing a game which is about to reset anyway? that or blizzard actually does hate terran.
lol the first time in the games history that Terran has been anywhere near UP(Which I still don't think they are) and suddenly Blizzard hates Terran? xD
man the community for this game is just such trash, everyone is a whining little faggot. so glad i quit this shit game. fuck you blizzard hope your building burns down!
Actually, I'm not surprised to see no balance changes in this patch. It's purely a content patch, and I wouldn't want too many things in it that have the potential to go wrong. Also, the way they did the last balance changes were a bit different considering it didn't go through a patcher and just went straight into the game itself.
On July 25 2012 11:59 Antimatterz wrote: So glad there aren't balance changes, people need to learn to adapt rather than rely on Blizzard to make their life easier for them.
Like zergs have adapted since launch? AKA whine to papa blizz until they nerf terran or buff stuff that didn't need to be buffed (like ultras, infestors and queens)? I do agree with what you're saying but, seriously t v z is broken right now.
It's kinda tough to go through 26 pages of posts... but did anyone talk about why banelings now automatically unburrow when a lossus is in range? Seems absolutely pointless. Baneling mines are awesome especially against deathball
On July 25 2012 12:31 squanzo wrote: It's kinda tough to go through 26 pages of posts... but did anyone talk about why banelings now automatically unburrow when a lossus is in range? Seems absolutely pointless. Baneling mines are awesome especially against deathball
Because before they don't automatically unburrow if colosus was in close range.
Auto-cast on unburrow is already ingame. You can test it for yourself. Just burrow baneling and rightclick on unburrow ability. It will unburrow when unit comes in close range. But it's less effective than exploding them when enemy walks over banes
So funny that half of the SC2 community don't know about Baneling auto-unburrow
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
Very true, but it's still true that any Terran other than a top-notch, Korean-trained one is having a really difficult time posting any results these days. Any time you see the random Terran make it deep in an international tournament, you can practically guarantee it's a Code S Korean.
Foreigner terrans have always been bad relative to Korean terrans. Any time anyone makes it deep into an international tournament, you can practically guarantee it's a Code S Korean or Stephano.
That's cause Terran is harder to play than the other two races.
On July 25 2012 12:31 squanzo wrote: It's kinda tough to go through 26 pages of posts... but did anyone talk about why banelings now automatically unburrow when a lossus is in range? Seems absolutely pointless. Baneling mines are awesome especially against deathball
This has been a cause of some confusion, here's the deal:
In the game currently, you can put banelings on auto-unburrow by using auto-cast on the unburrow command.
What this does is if any ground units get in range of them, they unburrow.
Currently colossus don't trigger the auto-unburrow just because in a lot of ways, they're counted as air-units.
This fixes that bug, so that if you have your banelings on auto-unburrow, colossus will trigger it.
It does not affect the way they're used currently, you can continue to use them in whatever fashion you like, auto-unburrow has been in the game since release, this merely fixes them so that something that can be hit on the ground actually triggers the unburrow like all other ground units.
On July 25 2012 12:31 squanzo wrote: It's kinda tough to go through 26 pages of posts... but did anyone talk about why banelings now automatically unburrow when a lossus is in range? Seems absolutely pointless. Baneling mines are awesome especially against deathball
Because before they don't automatically unburrow if colosus was in close range.
Auto-cast on unburrow is already ingame. You can test it for yourself. Just burrow baneling and rightclick on unburrow ability. It will unburrow when unit comes in close range. But it's less effective than exploding them when enemy walks over banes
So funny that half of the SC2 community don't know about Baneling auto-unburrow
On July 24 2012 19:28 Sianos wrote: Terran buffs: - Bunker building time stays the same - Rax building time stays the same - No changes with the other races
I can´t imagine a better patch for terran since beta.
Ikr. Hey, terrans. We're looking at this all wrong, this is a great patch!
who the hell uses auto unburrow? Seems so pointless. The one guy who actually uses it is loving this bug fix. He's never going to miss a colossus again!
Patch 1.5.0 was announced months ago. It has never been about balance change. I am actually glad they didn't include any balance change in this one.
This patch is totally different from any other patches before. No other patch was announced a few months ahead of time. Primary focus of 1.5.0 is interface change, not balance.
For those of you who complain about balance, 1.5.1 will be it.
On July 25 2012 14:18 Orek wrote: Patch 1.5.0 was announced months ago. It has never been about balance change. I am actually glad they didn't include any balance change in this one.
This patch is totally different from any other patches before. No other patch was announced a few months ahead of time. Primary focus of 1.5.0 is interface change, not balance.
For those of you who complain about balance, 1.5.1 will be it.
Yeah also pretty thankful it isn't a balance change considering this was already planned.
I mean imagine if you had a huge breakfast bbq planned with friends, but people commented that you were getting a bit fat and a bbq seems a bit silly. So when your friends arrive in the morning you say that you signed them all up for a half marathon and they'll have to get their own breakfast.
I guess what I'm saying is: bacon needs to be eaten.
I really hope 1.5 makes everything more noob-friendly. I've convinced friends and family alike to play again on multiple occassions (teamgames, mostly) but none really stick around. Maybe with the new patch the implementation of new stuff will give more incentive for people to stay!
Even if it doesn't, I won't be too hurt. As long as Blizzard can get it figured out by HOTS, when they have a resurgence of players.
On July 25 2012 15:42 prOxi.swAMi wrote: Wasn't 1.5.0 supposed to include clan support? Or am I thinking of something else?
Something else. They said the clan support and shared replay watching system stuff would come around about the launch of HotS (but be available regardless of if you upgrade or not). This same arcade patch has basically been in the pipeline since Blizzcon last year (isn't that scary?). Part of me thinks it's just that a large number of UI and Bnet guys were over helping with the launch of D3 and they only now just got them back on to Sc2.
A new in-game pathing display has been added that shows the path a unit will take on the mini-map.
To me this seems the only thing in the patch that's worth looking at. I mean the baneling-colossus thing is all good and nice, but honestly i've never ever seen anyone use unburrow on autocast and there are rarely random colossi marching alone on the map, so to me it feels like "who gives a f*ck", but the pathing display on the mini-map is something. It can be helpful for learning new maps, until you're familiar with the terrain features. But other than that, i dont like it for multiple reasons. 1. players should pay attention to their units and where they're going and know the features of the map to avoid being caught in a bad positon. so i think it would take away skill (maybe not much but still) unnecessarily. 2. it adds (for me) unwanted information to the mini-map, taking away space from (to me) more important things. anyone who happened to watch the proleague yesterday could see Sea (i think it was him) play with the terrain turned off on the mini-map, cuz he knows the map, knows it's featuers, and removing unnecessary information makes it easier to spot units etc. and this would have the exact opposite effect. I've not seen how it works, it may not be confusing, but i dont really see any point of it.
This isn't the designated balance thread, it's a thread for a new patch with 0 balance changes. There's no reason at all to bring it up in here. Looks like there will be some neat changes to the UI, hopefully this will make customs more fun and easier to get in to.
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
don t get me wrong, he played great and deserves the win, but on the other hand he had luck that stephano didn t made it into the finals because, against stephano it would have been a completely different story....look how stephano owned ryung, and ryungs TvZ is at least as good as taejas....
probably there is allways a little bit of luck required to win such a tornament at least when it comes to the mu and enemies that you have to play against......
all i want to say is that you can not say if TvZ is balanced or not due to one tornament win from a terran player who didn t even had to play against the best zergs out there....
On July 25 2012 01:28 hooahah wrote: how can you guys still complain about the queen range when Terrans are doing fine in tournaments
the is an obscene lie! Just because 1 terra lucky won a tornament does not mean everything is fine now. But to be honest it was obvios that this will happen......last months 24 tornament wins for zerg 3 for terra (now 4) and suddenly everyone is acting like the game is perfectly balanced......
i know this is not the balance thread but i just have to answer to someone who stone-cold lies.
Saying Taeja got lucky is a lie.
I think he meant to say that Taeja got lucky with having to face only 1 zerg (Losira who isn't so hot in zvt) in the tournament... ofc Taeja played fantastically in MLG.
Taeja has a 78% win ratio in TvZ after the patch in tournaments...
Finally a bandaid for their weary chat interface, but a bandaid nonetheless. I hope this is all just a test for drastic changes in the way HOTS approaches player-to-player communication and players-in-chat channels (we all know the grievances here) etc. As far as the UI & Improvement front, just waiting for shared replay watching and resume-from-replay capabilities now (HOTS likely and announced).
Add my voice to those glad that 1.5 was designed with UI and Custom Games (Arcade) in mind and not a balance patch. Let the progamers focus on the game as it is evolving now and not what the game units have become, how it affects their strategies, and how it affects dealing with the enemy.
"Banelings will now auto-cast Unburrow if a Colossus comes within their attack range."
I don't like this change.. What if the Protoss does not have an observer? We can't do some Banelings landmines because the Banelings will just un-burrow.. :/ There isn't a lot of Banelings used in ZvP, but having the option to still do it is great.
Let me put it this way: You go ahead and burrow some Banelings at the enemy's third base. He starts building a Nexus there and moves his entire army over to that base. He does not have an observer, but he does have Colossi. Suddenly, the burrowed Banelings will un-burrow and just suicide themselves for no cost because of the Colossi.
The amount of comments about the baneling change is horrifying. Why is no one reading the existing 27 pages explaining the issue...
Also people whining about balance changes... I can't see any of you actually suggesting a balance change specifically, so it is irritating to see a post that simply says "wtf no balance changes" where it is unclear what you even what. Without that is it hard to take you seriously.
And in general it has been known by a lot of people this is just a UI patch, nothing more. Keep tabs on things people.
On July 25 2012 19:30 Adrianzo wrote: "Banelings will now auto-cast Unburrow if a Colossus comes within their attack range."
I don't like this change.. What if the Protoss does not have an observer? We can't do some Banelings landmines because the Banelings will just un-burrow.. :/ There isn't a lot of Banelings used in ZvP, but having the option to still do it is great.
Let me put it this way: You go ahead and burrow some Banelings at the enemy's third base. He starts building a Nexus there and moves his entire army over to that base. He does not have an observer, but he does have Colossi. Suddenly, the burrowed Banelings will un-burrow and just suicide themselves for no cost because of the Colossi.
..
It's been said on every page so far, autocast burrow (you know, if you right click the burrowed icon when it's underground) banelings would before the 1.5 patch unburrow against any unit besides the colossus. Now it's been fixed that they also unburrow if only a colossus is in range. Before a stalker or zealot or probe would trigger it.
On July 25 2012 19:30 Adrianzo wrote: "Banelings will now auto-cast Unburrow if a Colossus comes within their attack range."
I don't like this change.. What if the Protoss does not have an observer? We can't do some Banelings landmines because the Banelings will just un-burrow.. :/ There isn't a lot of Banelings used in ZvP, but having the option to still do it is great.
Let me put it this way: You go ahead and burrow some Banelings at the enemy's third base. He starts building a Nexus there and moves his entire army over to that base. He does not have an observer, but he does have Colossi. Suddenly, the burrowed Banelings will un-burrow and just suicide themselves for no cost because of the Colossi.
..
You didn't understand the fix.
If now you set auto cast to the burrowed banelings, they won't unburrow if a collosus comes by, most likely because they think the collo is an air unit.
Now they will.
But standard burrowed banelings (without autocast) won't unburrow if a collo comes by. They will wait patiently for you to send them to their glorious death
On July 25 2012 02:12 GinDo wrote: Fruitdealer wins 1st GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Nestea wins 2nd GSL = Game is imbalanced Buff Zerg. Teaja wins MLG Arena = Game is fine, if anything Terran is OP.
I had a dream last night, literally, had a dream that I was browsing the new B.net interface, and it was brushed metal, and had a bigass general chat window, but it was modern and sleek.
So this morning I woke up, and even though I had work, I was like "damn I need to download sc2 arcade and see what its about."
Looking more and more likely that it will be released either next week or the week after.
There will be a patch which will give you a tool to convert your current sc2 install into the streaming version, then you'll convert it (could take anywhere from a few minutes to an hour), and then you start getting the actual 1.5.0 patch.
The amount of people with poor reading comprehension on TL is frightening. How difficult is it to understand AUTOCAST UNBURROW... JEZUZ. Most of the time I just come to TL to read stupid comments for teh LOLs but it gets unbearable at times.
Hopefully with these changes, the UI will be even better. Anyway doubt it will satisfiers the perma whiners on TL. Whine if there is something whine if there is nothing...
On July 25 2012 19:30 Adrianzo wrote: "Banelings will now auto-cast Unburrow if a Colossus comes within their attack range."
I don't like this change.. What if the Protoss does not have an observer? We can't do some Banelings landmines because the Banelings will just un-burrow.. :/ There isn't a lot of Banelings used in ZvP, but having the option to still do it is great.
Let me put it this way: You go ahead and burrow some Banelings at the enemy's third base. He starts building a Nexus there and moves his entire army over to that base. He does not have an observer, but he does have Colossi. Suddenly, the burrowed Banelings will un-burrow and just suicide themselves for no cost because of the Colossi.
..
Why would you even use the auto-cast on unburrow? Like... I mean... Why would you!?
On July 24 2012 17:08 iky43210 wrote: no ptr = no balance changes
Queen Range 5 didnt get PTR. A lot of things dont get PTR.
Also, this means HotS Beta is one and half a month away?
Mid August to Late August confirmed by different sources... The game will be released around late November- December. At least that is the planned time frame from Blizzard.
On July 29 2012 10:02 cydial wrote: I don't think Terran is in that bad of a spot.
We are Terran, we are not Protoss or zerg.
WE DO NOT SOW.
You will beg for mercy if a swarm of zerglings surround you terran. Or when you are in your group and suddenly in the darkness..your terran buddies heads are cut off by something invisible..I can just hear you beg for mercy as the invisible ones cut you down.You will get on your knees and bow , bow as low as you can as you beg for mercy when a ultralisk appear and with a roar, you view your last.
On July 29 2012 10:02 cydial wrote: I don't think Terran is in that bad of a spot.
We are Terran, we are not Protoss or zerg.
WE DO NOT SOW.
You will beg for mercy if a swarm of zerglings surround you terran. Or when you are in your group and suddenly in the darkness..your terran buddies heads are cut off by something invisible..I can just hear you beg for mercy as the invisible ones cut you down.You will get on your knees and bow , bow as low as you can as you beg for mercy when a ultralisk appear and with a roar, you view your last.
I dont understand why every site/platform/UI everything in modern time has to force users that many thing.
Makes no sense at all, they should just let me have customize your screen option... Like when I have zero interest in co-op games, why do I have to have button I never use right next to buttons I always use?
This is why I so hate every UI change, even if it makes things better looking it always come with them forcing me to have or even use features I have zero interests in.
On July 30 2012 04:57 Gtoad wrote: No party replay watching yet ;(
lol, i mean really. this has been the cry of sc2 gamers since the launch of the game, and even in this massive overhaul of a bunch of unnecessary garbage, we STILL don't have it? i mean sure some of the stuff may be interesting, but replays w/ friends is essentially mandatory for both tournaments and teams/friends alike.
On July 31 2012 01:36 Sek-Kuar wrote: I dont understand why every site/platform/UI everything in modern time has to force users that many thing.
Makes no sense at all, they should just let me have customize your screen option... Like when I have zero interest in co-op games, why do I have to have button I never use right next to buttons I always use?
This is why I so hate every UI change, even if it makes things better looking it always come with them forcing me to have or even use features I have zero interests in.
What?
AFAIK its the complete opposite. Bnet is just shit.
On July 29 2012 10:02 cydial wrote: I don't think Terran is in that bad of a spot.
We are Terran, we are not Protoss or zerg.
WE DO NOT SOW.
Wait we are Cthulhu worshiping space vikings now?
Wait, is this some stealth buff I am not aware of? I was under the impression I was fight space rednecks. Space viking that also worship a deep one is not something I prepared for. There are no builds for that.
On July 30 2012 04:57 Gtoad wrote: No party replay watching yet ;(
lol, i mean really. this has been the cry of sc2 gamers since the launch of the game, and even in this massive overhaul of a bunch of unnecessary garbage, we STILL don't have it? i mean sure some of the stuff may be interesting, but replays w/ friends is essentially mandatory for both tournaments and teams/friends alike.
I don't think it is an easy fix, mostly because the mod community has not cracked it yet(that I have heard of). It may require a lot more work on their back end than we are aware. From what I can see, it likely requires more bug testing than the other changes. The replay system that is current in place is still miles ahead of everything else on the market. I dipped back into SupCom 2 and DoW2 this weekend for fun with a buddy. We had a good laugh when we tried to watch replays and found amost negative information.
On July 30 2012 04:57 Gtoad wrote: No party replay watching yet ;(
lol, i mean really. this has been the cry of sc2 gamers since the launch of the game, and even in this massive overhaul of a bunch of unnecessary garbage, we STILL don't have it? i mean sure some of the stuff may be interesting, but replays w/ friends is essentially mandatory for both tournaments and teams/friends alike.
isnt it planned for HotS ? I am quite sure it is but cant find a source right now.
On July 30 2012 04:57 Gtoad wrote: No party replay watching yet ;(
lol, i mean really. this has been the cry of sc2 gamers since the launch of the game, and even in this massive overhaul of a bunch of unnecessary garbage, we STILL don't have it? i mean sure some of the stuff may be interesting, but replays w/ friends is essentially mandatory for both tournaments and teams/friends alike.
isnt it planned for HotS ? I am quite sure it is but cant find a source right now.
On July 30 2012 04:57 Gtoad wrote: No party replay watching yet ;(
lol, i mean really. this has been the cry of sc2 gamers since the launch of the game, and even in this massive overhaul of a bunch of unnecessary garbage, we STILL don't have it? i mean sure some of the stuff may be interesting, but replays w/ friends is essentially mandatory for both tournaments and teams/friends alike.
isnt it planned for HotS ? I am quite sure it is but cant find a source right now.
Yeah it is, including starting a game from a replay.
On July 30 2012 04:57 Gtoad wrote: No party replay watching yet ;(
lol, i mean really. this has been the cry of sc2 gamers since the launch of the game, and even in this massive overhaul of a bunch of unnecessary garbage, we STILL don't have it? i mean sure some of the stuff may be interesting, but replays w/ friends is essentially mandatory for both tournaments and teams/friends alike.
isnt it planned for HotS ? I am quite sure it is but cant find a source right now.
Yeah it is, including starting a game from a replay.
Yeah, becasue it is easier to add 10 new features at one than add one at a time.
I always love patches and then people not really reading into them enough or not understanding them go "banelings.. NOW UNBURROW FOR COLO IMBALANCE"<--- gets me everytime lol
On July 30 2012 04:57 Gtoad wrote: No party replay watching yet ;(
lol, i mean really. this has been the cry of sc2 gamers since the launch of the game, and even in this massive overhaul of a bunch of unnecessary garbage, we STILL don't have it? i mean sure some of the stuff may be interesting, but replays w/ friends is essentially mandatory for both tournaments and teams/friends alike.
isnt it planned for HotS ? I am quite sure it is but cant find a source right now.
Yeah it is, including starting a game from a replay.
Yeah, becasue it is easier to add 10 new features at one than add one at a time.
More like this:
Yeah, because it is easier to sell new products if it brings with it a feature everyone wants.
On July 30 2012 04:57 Gtoad wrote: No party replay watching yet ;(
lol, i mean really. this has been the cry of sc2 gamers since the launch of the game, and even in this massive overhaul of a bunch of unnecessary garbage, we STILL don't have it? i mean sure some of the stuff may be interesting, but replays w/ friends is essentially mandatory for both tournaments and teams/friends alike.
isnt it planned for HotS ? I am quite sure it is but cant find a source right now.
Yeah it is, including starting a game from a replay.
Yeah, becasue it is easier to add 10 new features at one than add one at a time.
More like this:
Yeah, because it is easier to sell new products if it brings with it a feature everyone wants.
On July 31 2012 02:43 Bippzy wrote: Edit@above: to be a badass!
On July 31 2012 02:23 Plansix wrote:
On July 31 2012 02:20 willoc wrote:
On July 31 2012 02:14 arkedos wrote:
On July 31 2012 02:04 Mortal wrote:
On July 30 2012 04:57 Gtoad wrote: No party replay watching yet ;(
lol, i mean really. this has been the cry of sc2 gamers since the launch of the game, and even in this massive overhaul of a bunch of unnecessary garbage, we STILL don't have it? i mean sure some of the stuff may be interesting, but replays w/ friends is essentially mandatory for both tournaments and teams/friends alike.
isnt it planned for HotS ? I am quite sure it is but cant find a source right now.
Yeah it is, including starting a game from a replay.
Yeah, becasue it is easier to add 10 new features at one than add one at a time.
More like this:
Yeah, because it is easier to sell new products if it brings with it a feature everyone wants.
Exactly. It is easier to justify devoting techs, your Q&A department and time into an upgrade for an expansion, rather than just added it in cold with a patch.
On July 31 2012 03:37 Young Terran wrote: LOL banelings will cast auto unborrow if a colosus comes within attack range how retarded do you have to be seriously.
But banelings ALREADY can auto-unburrow against ALL targets. Someone from sc2 community don'know that?!
On July 31 2012 03:37 Young Terran wrote: LOL banelings will cast auto unborrow if a colosus comes within attack range how retarded do you have to be seriously.
It just means that if you have detonate set to auto-cast, they will auto-cast detonate when a colossus comes within the range of the banelings detonate. Previously an error caused by the dual-classification of the colossus (air and ground, where detonate only looked at colossus as 'air')
On July 29 2012 10:02 cydial wrote: I don't think Terran is in that bad of a spot.
We are Terran, we are not Protoss or zerg.
WE DO NOT SOW.
Wait we are Cthulhu worshiping space vikings now?
Wait, is this some stealth buff I am not aware of? I was under the impression I was fight space rednecks. Space viking that also worship a deep one is not something I prepared for. There are no builds for that.
I was assuming that he was referencing A Song of Ice and Fire's (Game of Thrones) Greyjoys who are essentially vikings who worship a drowned god that takes shape in a kraken. Their motto is "We do not sow".
I can't believe all of the qq about no balance changes. It has been obvious for weeks that there would be no balance in this patch. Also, this patch is super exciting and amazing. What is wrong with you people?
Also, hasn't anybody seen the note on the side during SC2 login that 1.5 will be applied on the 31st at 3am PDT?
It's because the majority of people posting just complain, don't think, most likely is below the age 20 and just generally in need of attention. Oh and for as much pride and how important they think their opinion is, most likely doesn't even play the game more than a few times every two weeks, hence the lack of patch 1.5 notice at login.
excited it's finally arriving. i'll actually be able to play custom games again some balance changed would be nice, but i suppose i can settle for knowing that hots beta/ptr balance changes will be coming soon.