hopefully EG can find a way to keep everyones favourite foreign zerg in the scene a little longer :D
congrats
Forum Index > SC2 General |
tsango
Australia214 Posts
hopefully EG can find a way to keep everyones favourite foreign zerg in the scene a little longer :D congrats | ||
fer
Canada375 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22426 Posts
On September 08 2012 20:14 bluQ wrote: Show nested quote + On September 08 2012 20:11 thecoupe wrote: On September 08 2012 20:06 Nuclease wrote: 96,000 a year? Seems pretty measly to me, for a person who apparently is in the game to make money. That's without prize money, though. You don't know the contract. Prize money can easly all go to EG with such a salary. There is no way any team is stupid enough to take all prize money. It hurts a players motivation way too much. | ||
Glioburd
France1900 Posts
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Hds
France200 Posts
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On September 08 2012 20:27 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On September 08 2012 20:14 bluQ wrote: On September 08 2012 20:11 thecoupe wrote: On September 08 2012 20:06 Nuclease wrote: 96,000 a year? Seems pretty measly to me, for a person who apparently is in the game to make money. That's without prize money, though. You don't know the contract. Prize money can easly all go to EG with such a salary. There is no way any team is stupid enough to take all prize money. It hurts a players motivation way too much. Really? I mean sure I could see some motivation for that exact tournament could be less. Sure. But over the generaltime I expect a person like Stephano to feel more motivated to preform in an overall good state. Imo it highly depends on the personality and someone like Stephano doesn't seem to really care about tournaments. So if you, by contract, make him to perform in a defined overall state(-> high monthly salary, low earnings from tournies) woudln't that make him more motivated? He seems to care more about having enough money each month to live like he wants to rather than getting one big paycheck each year. And somesort of percentage-model could still work, but as I said, I think there are enough players who would trade x% of pricemoney for a higher monthly salary. And considering EG you either would need to give your player money for each commerical etc or just subsum it under one big monthly figure. | ||
Garnet
Vietnam9001 Posts
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
"If you make a deal with the devil, it is not the devil that changes" | ||
mememolly
4765 Posts
On September 08 2012 20:42 bluQ wrote: Show nested quote + On September 08 2012 20:27 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: On September 08 2012 20:14 bluQ wrote: On September 08 2012 20:11 thecoupe wrote: On September 08 2012 20:06 Nuclease wrote: 96,000 a year? Seems pretty measly to me, for a person who apparently is in the game to make money. That's without prize money, though. You don't know the contract. Prize money can easly all go to EG with such a salary. There is no way any team is stupid enough to take all prize money. It hurts a players motivation way too much. Really? I mean sure I could see some motivation for that exact tournament could be less. Sure. But over the generaltime I expect a person like Stephano to feel more motivated to preform in an overall good state. Imo it highly depends on the personality and someone like Stephano doesn't seem to really care about tournaments. So if you, by contract, make him to perform in a defined overall state(-> high monthly salary, low earnings from tournies) woudln't that make him more motivated? He seems to care more about having enough money each month to live like he wants to rather than getting one big paycheck each year. And somesort of percentage-model could still work, but as I said, I think there are enough players who would trade x% of pricemoney for a higher monthly salary. And considering EG you either would need to give your player money for each commerical etc or just subsum it under one big monthly figure. No, you're wrong. Stephano does care about tourneys, hence why he's one of the biggest winners and often the highest place foreigner. He'd be more motivated to win tourneys if he got the prize money as it's more money to him, he gets his salary regardless, what you're suggesting is that if it didn't matter either way whether he won a tourney he'd be more motivated to win them, which doesn't make any sense. EG will want their players to place as highly as possible so will do anything in their power to make sure this happens, taking prize money away and giving them a salary based on what call "defined overall state" (whatever that means) again doesn't motivate the player to win a tourney and so is bad for EG. | ||
AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On September 08 2012 20:42 bluQ wrote: Show nested quote + On September 08 2012 20:27 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: On September 08 2012 20:14 bluQ wrote: On September 08 2012 20:11 thecoupe wrote: On September 08 2012 20:06 Nuclease wrote: 96,000 a year? Seems pretty measly to me, for a person who apparently is in the game to make money. That's without prize money, though. You don't know the contract. Prize money can easly all go to EG with such a salary. There is no way any team is stupid enough to take all prize money. It hurts a players motivation way too much. Really? I mean sure I could see some motivation for that exact tournament could be less. Sure. But over the generaltime I expect a person like Stephano to feel more motivated to preform in an overall good state. Imo it highly depends on the personality and someone like Stephano doesn't seem to really care about tournaments. So if you, by contract, make him to perform in a defined overall state(-> high monthly salary, low earnings from tournies) woudln't that make him more motivated? He seems to care more about having enough money each month to live like he wants to rather than getting one big paycheck each year. And somesort of percentage-model could still work, but as I said, I think there are enough players who would trade x% of pricemoney for a higher monthly salary. And considering EG you either would need to give your player money for each commerical etc or just subsum it under one big monthly figure. I assume Nazgul might know a thing or two about esports organisation, contracts etc. It seems a bit pointless to argue against his point of view in this question, especially as an outsider. | ||
havox_
Germany442 Posts
On September 08 2012 20:42 bluQ wrote: Show nested quote + On September 08 2012 20:27 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: On September 08 2012 20:14 bluQ wrote: On September 08 2012 20:11 thecoupe wrote: On September 08 2012 20:06 Nuclease wrote: 96,000 a year? Seems pretty measly to me, for a person who apparently is in the game to make money. That's without prize money, though. You don't know the contract. Prize money can easly all go to EG with such a salary. There is no way any team is stupid enough to take all prize money. It hurts a players motivation way too much. Really? I mean sure I could see some motivation for that exact tournament could be less. Sure. But over the generaltime I expect a person like Stephano to feel more motivated to preform in an overall good state. Imo it highly depends on the personality and someone like Stephano doesn't seem to really care about tournaments. So if you, by contract, make him to perform in a defined overall state(-> high monthly salary, low earnings from tournies) woudln't that make him more motivated? He seems to care more about having enough money each month to live like he wants to rather than getting one big paycheck each year. [...] wow, nothing of what youre saying makes any sense at all. ESPECIALLY someone like stephano wouldnt perform at all in such a case. and how would you make somebody perform overall, wtf? | ||
bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On September 08 2012 20:53 mememolly wrote: Show nested quote + On September 08 2012 20:42 bluQ wrote: On September 08 2012 20:27 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: On September 08 2012 20:14 bluQ wrote: On September 08 2012 20:11 thecoupe wrote: On September 08 2012 20:06 Nuclease wrote: 96,000 a year? Seems pretty measly to me, for a person who apparently is in the game to make money. That's without prize money, though. You don't know the contract. Prize money can easly all go to EG with such a salary. There is no way any team is stupid enough to take all prize money. It hurts a players motivation way too much. Really? I mean sure I could see some motivation for that exact tournament could be less. Sure. But over the generaltime I expect a person like Stephano to feel more motivated to preform in an overall good state. Imo it highly depends on the personality and someone like Stephano doesn't seem to really care about tournaments. So if you, by contract, make him to perform in a defined overall state(-> high monthly salary, low earnings from tournies) woudln't that make him more motivated? He seems to care more about having enough money each month to live like he wants to rather than getting one big paycheck each year. And somesort of percentage-model could still work, but as I said, I think there are enough players who would trade x% of pricemoney for a higher monthly salary. And considering EG you either would need to give your player money for each commerical etc or just subsum it under one big monthly figure. No, you're wrong. Stephano does care about tourneys, hence why he's one of the biggest winners and often the highest place foreigner. He'd be more motivated to win tourneys if he got the prize money as it's more money to him, he gets his salary regardless, what you're suggesting is that if it didn't matter either way whether he won a tourney he'd be more motivated to win them, which doesn't make any sense. EG will want their players to place as highly as possible so will do anything in their power to make sure this happens, taking prize money away and giving them a salary based on what call "defined overall state" (whatever that means) again doesn't motivate the player to win a tourney and so is bad for EG. I think I might havn't made clear what i meant. The risk of not winning a tournament and hence not earning as much as caluclated can be compensate by a high salary. In that sceneario the team/organiziation works as a medium to buffer the risk for the player. By that the player sure loses some POSSIBLE high earnings. But this models is kinda proven in standard economics. And as I said u can still use some sort of percantage model. Im suggesting some players value stability over possible earnings. | ||
LOLingBuddha
Netherlands697 Posts
gl to you Stephano! | ||
revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
On September 08 2012 12:46 Forikorder wrote: Show nested quote + On September 08 2012 12:44 emythrel wrote: On September 08 2012 11:36 Forikorder wrote: On September 08 2012 11:34 SeraKuDA wrote: On September 08 2012 11:31 Forikorder wrote: On September 08 2012 11:27 SeraKuDA wrote: On September 08 2012 11:24 emythrel wrote: On September 08 2012 11:08 SeraKuDA wrote: Hmmm, I thought he would be making more money. Still a very nice salary though. This means HuK's rumoured "six figure" salary is false. well since 8k per month works out to 96k per year its not really hard to imagine that huk made 9k per month which would bring him over the 100k line and thus a 6 figure salary. Because a 6 figure salary means that in a year you earn over 100k, not per month. I realize that. What I'm saying is that Stephano is (most likely) the highest paid player on EG right now, and therefore HuK isn't making six figures. tahts a leap big enough to cross the atlantic if anyone is making the biggest salary its IdrA since he has the biggest fan following (probably) of any pro, aside from this month has always had the msot popular stream (or a very very close second) was the only foreiner still palying to survive kespa and has the second best GSL results for any foreigner just looking at who they can make the most money out of its definently IdrA, even his kingston commercials is everyones favourite There's no way idra is making more than stephano. IdrA brings there sponsors money Stephano throws up and gets put in a drunk tank whos the better investment? no matter how you look at it sponsors would prefer to give IdrA money over stephano Stephano wins tournaments, Idra doesn't. I'd invest in the guy who wins shit over the guy who doesn't every single time. You certainly don't get football teams signing players for 40million dollars saying "hmm, this guy was caught fucking his bast mates girlfriend, lets hire the guy whos not as good but didn't fuck his best friends girlfriend". Business doesn't work like that. When you are the best, you can get away with pretty much anything you like. If destiny were the best foreigner, his sponsors would "look the other way" when he says or does something stupid.... but since he isn't the best he doesn't get away with it. When stephano got put in the drunk tank, did his team get an e-mail spam thwon at them to drop him from the team? hell no. Everyone laughed about how stupid Stephano looked and then MOVED on because he is the best and who cares if he likes to get drunk... hes young, thats what young people do. IdrA palces well at tournaments he plugs the sponsors he has more fans then stephano hes got the more popular stream he has more presence hes on shows he casts IdrA is far more marketable then Stephano he is a much much bigger asset then stephano Stephano has more fans than Idra now. Stephano's stream is consistently MUCH more popular than Idra's. Stephano is better for sponsors because he is the guy that is playing in the big tournaments in the later stages. Stephano generates a higher ROI for sponsors through exposure then Idra these days. Idra casts and is on shows, fair enough but he is far off being a consistent tournament contender like he was in 2011. Stephano actually wins tournaments and this puts his team name out there. Idra might get back there again, I hope he does, but he is definitely being eclipsed by Stephano currently. Stephano has earned > $86,000 in tournament prize money in 2012 alone. Idra has won ~$8,000 in the same period, less than a tenth of Stephano's winnings. In his career Stephano has won > $165,000 in tournament prize money, that is greater than $100,000 more prize-money than Idra, despite Stephano being a pro-gamer less than half the time of Idra. Maybe being team-mates will benefit both players, as they can practice ZvZ together and talk tactics. Go look at the streaming figures and you will see that Stephano has the most popular stream. He will again be the most popular SC2 streamer (by average viewer) with the highest peak viewers in September. Claiming Idra's stream is more popular is simply untrue. Go re-check your data. I am not bashing Idra here. I like Idra and hope that he can regain his competitive edge at the top level. Currently however Stephano is a bigger draw to teams because he wins AND is popular. | ||
Chriscras
Korea (South)2812 Posts
On September 08 2012 20:57 revel8 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 08 2012 12:46 Forikorder wrote: On September 08 2012 12:44 emythrel wrote: On September 08 2012 11:36 Forikorder wrote: On September 08 2012 11:34 SeraKuDA wrote: On September 08 2012 11:31 Forikorder wrote: On September 08 2012 11:27 SeraKuDA wrote: On September 08 2012 11:24 emythrel wrote: On September 08 2012 11:08 SeraKuDA wrote: Hmmm, I thought he would be making more money. Still a very nice salary though. This means HuK's rumoured "six figure" salary is false. well since 8k per month works out to 96k per year its not really hard to imagine that huk made 9k per month which would bring him over the 100k line and thus a 6 figure salary. Because a 6 figure salary means that in a year you earn over 100k, not per month. I realize that. What I'm saying is that Stephano is (most likely) the highest paid player on EG right now, and therefore HuK isn't making six figures. tahts a leap big enough to cross the atlantic if anyone is making the biggest salary its IdrA since he has the biggest fan following (probably) of any pro, aside from this month has always had the msot popular stream (or a very very close second) was the only foreiner still palying to survive kespa and has the second best GSL results for any foreigner just looking at who they can make the most money out of its definently IdrA, even his kingston commercials is everyones favourite There's no way idra is making more than stephano. IdrA brings there sponsors money Stephano throws up and gets put in a drunk tank whos the better investment? no matter how you look at it sponsors would prefer to give IdrA money over stephano Stephano wins tournaments, Idra doesn't. I'd invest in the guy who wins shit over the guy who doesn't every single time. You certainly don't get football teams signing players for 40million dollars saying "hmm, this guy was caught fucking his bast mates girlfriend, lets hire the guy whos not as good but didn't fuck his best friends girlfriend". Business doesn't work like that. When you are the best, you can get away with pretty much anything you like. If destiny were the best foreigner, his sponsors would "look the other way" when he says or does something stupid.... but since he isn't the best he doesn't get away with it. When stephano got put in the drunk tank, did his team get an e-mail spam thwon at them to drop him from the team? hell no. Everyone laughed about how stupid Stephano looked and then MOVED on because he is the best and who cares if he likes to get drunk... hes young, thats what young people do. IdrA palces well at tournaments he plugs the sponsors he has more fans then stephano hes got the more popular stream he has more presence hes on shows he casts IdrA is far more marketable then Stephano he is a much much bigger asset then stephano Stephano has more fans than Idra now. Stephano's stream is consistently MUCH more popular than Idra's. Stephano is better for sponsors because he is the guy that is playing in the big tournaments in the later stages. Stephano generates a higher ROI for sponsors through exposure then Idra these days. Idra casts and is on shows, fair enough but he is far off being a consistent tournament contender like he was in 2011. Stephano actually wins tournaments and this puts his team name out there. Idra might get back there again, I hope he does, but he is definitely being eclipsed by Stephano currently. Stephano has earned > $86,000 in tournament prize money in 2012 alone. Idra has won ~$8,000 in the same period, less than a tenth of Stephano's winnings. In his career Stephano has won > $165,000 in tournament prize money, that is greater than $100,000 more prize-money than Idra, despite Stephano being a pro-gamer less than half the time of Idra. Maybe being team-mates will benefit both players, as they can practice ZvZ together and talk tactics. Go look at the streaming figures and you will see that Stephano has the most popular stream. He will again be the most popular SC2 streamer (by average viewer) with the highest peak viewers in September. Claiming Idra's stream is more popular is simply untrue. Go re-check your data. I'm IdrA's 6th biggest fan in North America, but the sad truth is Stephano is more popular right now T_____T That's okay Greg! Win WCS and you will be right back on top!!! <3 | ||
Sedzz
Australia391 Posts
On September 08 2012 20:57 revel8 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 08 2012 12:46 Forikorder wrote: On September 08 2012 12:44 emythrel wrote: On September 08 2012 11:36 Forikorder wrote: On September 08 2012 11:34 SeraKuDA wrote: On September 08 2012 11:31 Forikorder wrote: On September 08 2012 11:27 SeraKuDA wrote: On September 08 2012 11:24 emythrel wrote: On September 08 2012 11:08 SeraKuDA wrote: Hmmm, I thought he would be making more money. Still a very nice salary though. This means HuK's rumoured "six figure" salary is false. well since 8k per month works out to 96k per year its not really hard to imagine that huk made 9k per month which would bring him over the 100k line and thus a 6 figure salary. Because a 6 figure salary means that in a year you earn over 100k, not per month. I realize that. What I'm saying is that Stephano is (most likely) the highest paid player on EG right now, and therefore HuK isn't making six figures. tahts a leap big enough to cross the atlantic if anyone is making the biggest salary its IdrA since he has the biggest fan following (probably) of any pro, aside from this month has always had the msot popular stream (or a very very close second) was the only foreiner still palying to survive kespa and has the second best GSL results for any foreigner just looking at who they can make the most money out of its definently IdrA, even his kingston commercials is everyones favourite There's no way idra is making more than stephano. IdrA brings there sponsors money Stephano throws up and gets put in a drunk tank whos the better investment? no matter how you look at it sponsors would prefer to give IdrA money over stephano Stephano wins tournaments, Idra doesn't. I'd invest in the guy who wins shit over the guy who doesn't every single time. You certainly don't get football teams signing players for 40million dollars saying "hmm, this guy was caught fucking his bast mates girlfriend, lets hire the guy whos not as good but didn't fuck his best friends girlfriend". Business doesn't work like that. When you are the best, you can get away with pretty much anything you like. If destiny were the best foreigner, his sponsors would "look the other way" when he says or does something stupid.... but since he isn't the best he doesn't get away with it. When stephano got put in the drunk tank, did his team get an e-mail spam thwon at them to drop him from the team? hell no. Everyone laughed about how stupid Stephano looked and then MOVED on because he is the best and who cares if he likes to get drunk... hes young, thats what young people do. IdrA palces well at tournaments he plugs the sponsors he has more fans then stephano hes got the more popular stream he has more presence hes on shows he casts IdrA is far more marketable then Stephano he is a much much bigger asset then stephano Stephano has more fans than Idra now. Stephano's stream is consistently MUCH more popular than Idra's. Stephano is better for sponsors because he is the guy that is playing in the big tournaments in the later stages. Stephano generates a higher ROI for sponsors through exposure then Idra these days. Idra casts and is on shows, fair enough but he is far off being a consistent tournament contender like he was in 2011. Stephano actually wins tournaments and this puts his team name out there. Idra might get back there again, I hope he does, but he is definitely being eclipsed by Stephano currently. Stephano has earned > $86,000 in tournament prize money in 2012 alone. Idra has won ~$8,000 in the same period, less than a tenth of Stephano's winnings. In his career Stephano has won > $165,000 in tournament prize money, that is greater than $100,000 more prize-money than Idra, despite Stephano being a pro-gamer less than half the time of Idra. Maybe being team-mates will benefit both players, as they can practice ZvZ together and talk tactics. Go look at the streaming figures and you will see that Stephano has the most popular stream. He will again be the most popular SC2 streamer (by average viewer) with the highest peak viewers in September. Claiming Idra's stream is more popular is simply untrue. Go re-check your data. I am not bashing Idra here. I like Idra and hope that he can regain his competitive edge at the top level. Currently however Stephano is a bigger draw to teams because he wins AND is popular. Congratulations, you focussed on one point he mentioned and drew a conclusion that way, neglecting all other points. Just because he wins tournaments and has a popular stream, doesn't mean he is more marketable, look at incontrol for an example, he doesn't place that well at tournaments but he is intelligent and very outspoken, he's infinitely more valuable to EG and has a much higher ROI than what Stephano would have. | ||
Laplaces_imp
368 Posts
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
On September 08 2012 20:42 bluQ wrote: Really? I mean sure I could see some motivation for that exact tournament could be less. Sure. But over the generaltime I expect a person like Stephano to feel more motivated to preform in an overall good state. Imo it highly depends on the personality and someone like Stephano doesn't seem to really care about tournaments. So if you, by contract, make him to perform in a defined overall state(-> high monthly salary, low earnings from tournies) woudln't that make him more motivated? He seems to care more about having enough money each month to live like he wants to rather than getting one big paycheck each year. And somesort of percentage-model could still work, but as I said, I think there are enough players who would trade x% of pricemoney for a higher monthly salary. And considering EG you either would need to give your player money for each commerical etc or just subsum it under one big monthly figure. The reasons organizations don't take from their player's cookie jar: 1. It wrecks part of the achievement of winning, and motivation for practice; this is why "piece-work" and commission are still common in some industries. It rewards results. If I'm getting a continual amount of money for the work I do no matter what, why do I care how well it's done / how much I produce? Etc... 2. An organization would be incredibly stupid to dish out more guaranteed money, and then turn around and hope to get some prize money occasionally. It just doesn't make sense financially (or statistically given tournament attendance numbers, and formats that they use). | ||
Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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