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On September 26 2012 14:59 cletas wrote: The problem is not the quality or quantity of content that is going to come from MLG with the fact that it is PPV. It is the fact there already is SOOOOOO much free content or content that you already paid for that it is hard to justify. The amount of money from HD passes, gold membership, GSL, SC2 is quickly becoming a fairly expensive activity to watch on a budget.
You're kidding, right?
You can watch nearly everything, everywhere for free. There is no budget involved because there is not money spent.
There a handful of Code A matches from GOM that you can't watch for free and now a handful of cross-realm, replay-casted matches from MLG that you can't watch for free.
Everything else you can watch in at least 480p (except GOM, which is awful quality on free or premium).
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I don't really understand. Will there be VOD for the ones whi have paid ? Because I live in France and I won't be able to watch the games except if i stay awake all the night... I work all the week that's why i need the VODs...
By the way, paying 10$ is nothing... It's like going to watch a movie or eating one menu at McDonlalds... Instead of paying for that silly luxuries, pay for Flash for god's sake...
Edit : oh nevermind, there will be VODs. Definetely going to pay 10 bucks !
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Umm 150+ week 1 matchups on the MLG page? I'd assume each bolded title is a broadcast day giving 2 broadcasts per week for 4 weeks before the playoffs.
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I expect it to flop as well. OSL and PL did not have good viewer numbers. The majority of the viewers did not play BW. So i think the majority doesn't really care about the KeSPA players. As hard as it sounds, i think that is really the case. Either way, i'll not watch it.
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I'm not opposed to PPV as a model, but hell no am I paying to see cross-server 2nd rate content
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I simply can't pay for broadcasted sports events... I never have in my life and I never will.
I pay with ads, nuff said.
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Maybe i'll buy a pass for this (or something you need to watch) Apperently it's very hard for some people to accept that companies need cash flow and that there are different ways of obtaning it. Don't like it, don't buy it. It's very simple. For anyone who thinks they can tell mlg what they should or should not do from a moralistic point of view, just piss off, don't act so spoiled.
Obviously, if someone decides to not buy, no problem.
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On September 26 2012 17:01 Yorbon wrote:Maybe i'll buy a pass for this (or something you need to watch) Apperently it's very hard for some people to accept that companies need cash flow and that there are different ways of obtaning it. Don't like it, don't buy it. It's very simple. For anyone who thinks they can tell mlg what they should or should not do from a moralistic point of view, just piss off, don't act so spoiled. Obviously, if someone decides to not buy, no problem.
Yet all the other sporting foundations are able to fund purely off of commercial revenue. It's MLG being greedy...
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On September 26 2012 15:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2012 10:54 Mackus wrote: I'm implying that they're too money orientated, they're miles behind ASUS and Dreamhack and think they can charge for this stuff while the other alternatives are better and free. Not to mention the broadcasted games aren't even live, if TSL4 charged to watch there would be an absolute uproar but MLG are arrogant enough to think they're better. They are better, they have better players, a relatively exclusive product and higher production values. So I've worked for all 3 of these tournaments you've listed, each on more than one occasion, the whole "MLG is miles behind thing" is pretty much BS. MLG blows all of those tournaments out of the water in terms of options. Dreamhack has a 720p free stream, ok that's nice, MLG has 4-6 streams, player PoV, instant-replay VoDs and a far superior streaming setup. If possible they need to get up to 60fps from 30, that's a nice experience, but since they do 1080p rather than Dreamhacks 720p they might be hard-pressed to pull that off. I hear all this talk of "better production" from people that don't know what production is. In my experience MLG has better production overall. Dreamhack has better venues and as such provides a superior live experience. It's hard to compare the Raleigh convention centre to the Ericsson Globe. MLG could definitely do with finding some more exciting venues, they're way behind on that, not even first in the US since IPL gets better venues for their gigs. Dreamhack and MLG both suffer from downtime issues, Dreamhack is currently ahead in that respect but it's not perfect, there are still plenty of crowd-shots and lots of music filler. Dreamhack gets to use copyright music, Sweden is wonderful and all that. MLG has analysis in the bag. Analysis desk plus the replay Analysis touch-screen is more professional and provides more information than the Dreamhack Analysis couch. MLG continues to get better players, Dreamhack doesn't get top-tier Koreans as often though makes up for it somewhat with European depth of talent. MLG production value in terms of audio quality tends to be superior and that's mostly because of how they do it. They keep the casters as far away from the PA as possible, minimizing the kind of nasty reverb we got in WCS EU. There tend to be less production fuckups as well, production coming through on the stream, non-functional mics, that stuff is way less common at MLG. Their "portable studio" setup is much more effective, not to mention looks significantly more professional. MLG equipment tends to be better too, I do rather dislike the gear Dreamhack uses, those bloody around the ear mics will slice ya flesh and they don't honestly sound that great either. Much prefer the Sennheiser gear MLG uses, it's more comfortable, more robust and better quality overall. There's a reason that stuff is used for sports-casts. Quite frankly, the gap, assuming there is one and that's a matter of opinion, is way smaller than people make it out to be. MLG needs to get it's act together in terms of filling down-time. More interviews, more action replays, more analysis. Ideally they could get 2 more booths and do the GSL style of setting up while another match is going on, to provide a constant stream of matches. 60fps would be nice but not essential, it's a luxury and one I'll happily give up if it means 1080p and less of the artifacting we see on the Dreamhack stream (which knowing those guys will probably be cleared up by next tournament, they're super smart). Both are great tournaments and yet I see Dreamhack constantly praised and MLG constantly shit on. MLG is trying to run a business entirely on the basis of their tournament content, they have a lot of paid staff, a lot of expensive equipment and many costs to deal with. Dreamhack is not just eSports, has many volunteers and a number of advantages due to their position as a "cultural" event. Both are awesome and I'm sick to death of one being praised (to the point of ignoring some of it's mistakes and faults) and the other being constantly shit on at every turn. The bias exists on both TL and Reddit, it's enormous and obvious and quite frankly needs to stop. It's destructive, it serves no practical purpose and if we were to lose either MLG or Dreamhack it'd be a huge blow to the scene as it stands. Both deserve support.
Thank you for writing this. I'm so tired of all the "MLG take note" ranting after every Dreamhack events from people who seem to have the insight of 14 year old girls that claim with the strongest conviction that Justin Bieber is the biggest musical talent the world has ever seen.
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On September 26 2012 17:06 MVBasten wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 15:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2012 10:54 Mackus wrote: I'm implying that they're too money orientated, they're miles behind ASUS and Dreamhack and think they can charge for this stuff while the other alternatives are better and free. Not to mention the broadcasted games aren't even live, if TSL4 charged to watch there would be an absolute uproar but MLG are arrogant enough to think they're better. They are better, they have better players, a relatively exclusive product and higher production values. So I've worked for all 3 of these tournaments you've listed, each on more than one occasion, the whole "MLG is miles behind thing" is pretty much BS. MLG blows all of those tournaments out of the water in terms of options. Dreamhack has a 720p free stream, ok that's nice, MLG has 4-6 streams, player PoV, instant-replay VoDs and a far superior streaming setup. If possible they need to get up to 60fps from 30, that's a nice experience, but since they do 1080p rather than Dreamhacks 720p they might be hard-pressed to pull that off. I hear all this talk of "better production" from people that don't know what production is. In my experience MLG has better production overall. Dreamhack has better venues and as such provides a superior live experience. It's hard to compare the Raleigh convention centre to the Ericsson Globe. MLG could definitely do with finding some more exciting venues, they're way behind on that, not even first in the US since IPL gets better venues for their gigs. Dreamhack and MLG both suffer from downtime issues, Dreamhack is currently ahead in that respect but it's not perfect, there are still plenty of crowd-shots and lots of music filler. Dreamhack gets to use copyright music, Sweden is wonderful and all that. MLG has analysis in the bag. Analysis desk plus the replay Analysis touch-screen is more professional and provides more information than the Dreamhack Analysis couch. MLG continues to get better players, Dreamhack doesn't get top-tier Koreans as often though makes up for it somewhat with European depth of talent. MLG production value in terms of audio quality tends to be superior and that's mostly because of how they do it. They keep the casters as far away from the PA as possible, minimizing the kind of nasty reverb we got in WCS EU. There tend to be less production fuckups as well, production coming through on the stream, non-functional mics, that stuff is way less common at MLG. Their "portable studio" setup is much more effective, not to mention looks significantly more professional. MLG equipment tends to be better too, I do rather dislike the gear Dreamhack uses, those bloody around the ear mics will slice ya flesh and they don't honestly sound that great either. Much prefer the Sennheiser gear MLG uses, it's more comfortable, more robust and better quality overall. There's a reason that stuff is used for sports-casts. Quite frankly, the gap, assuming there is one and that's a matter of opinion, is way smaller than people make it out to be. MLG needs to get it's act together in terms of filling down-time. More interviews, more action replays, more analysis. Ideally they could get 2 more booths and do the GSL style of setting up while another match is going on, to provide a constant stream of matches. 60fps would be nice but not essential, it's a luxury and one I'll happily give up if it means 1080p and less of the artifacting we see on the Dreamhack stream (which knowing those guys will probably be cleared up by next tournament, they're super smart). Both are great tournaments and yet I see Dreamhack constantly praised and MLG constantly shit on. MLG is trying to run a business entirely on the basis of their tournament content, they have a lot of paid staff, a lot of expensive equipment and many costs to deal with. Dreamhack is not just eSports, has many volunteers and a number of advantages due to their position as a "cultural" event. Both are awesome and I'm sick to death of one being praised (to the point of ignoring some of it's mistakes and faults) and the other being constantly shit on at every turn. The bias exists on both TL and Reddit, it's enormous and obvious and quite frankly needs to stop. It's destructive, it serves no practical purpose and if we were to lose either MLG or Dreamhack it'd be a huge blow to the scene as it stands. Both deserve support. Thank you for writing this. I'm so tired of all the "MLG take note" ranting after every Dreamhack events from people who seem to have the insight of 14 year old girls that claim with the strongest conviction that Justin Bieber is the biggest musical talent the world has ever seen.
+1!
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On September 26 2012 17:08 ArchDC wrote: Why no dota2 still???
still in Beta, and they hired the manager of Complexity dota 2 team to work on future plans.
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On September 26 2012 15:49 Hiea wrote: They have a bunch of unknown KeSPA guys that not a whole lot of people care about.
This is hilarious.
Flash, Jaedong, Stork, Bisu, Fantasy, Effort, Jangbi, Soulkey, Light and others... Yeah, totally unknown and no one cares about them.
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So much consternation over $10. I bet people give less thought to giving ten bucks to a hobo on the street than to something that supports their hobby. Take my money MLG, I hope it's not wasted.
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Make it start 2 hours earlier and I pay.
Otherwise I will not because I don't have the privilege to start watching a video game in the middle of the night on a weekday.
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Due to the players participating (only 6 Europeans, too many mediocre NA-players and a whole bunch of faceless koreans), the MvP-tournament was something I wasn't too interested in in the first place. Therefore, I don't really mind that it's behind a paywall - I'm not even remotely tempted to buy a pass considering the list of players participating.
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On September 26 2012 17:50 Jigsy wrote: Make it start 2 hours earlier and I pay.
Otherwise I will not because I don't have the privilege to start watching a video game in the middle of the night on a weekday.
There will be VODS so you can watch whenever its most convienient to you. $10 5 weeks of amazing games- seriously guys some of you should live in the real world. You get world class proffessonal entertainment and complain that its not free. "MLG are being greedy" no unfortunately people can't afford to work for free what with the whole having to buy food, pay rent etc... Sorry you will miss out but some of us will support it and enjoy it. I live in the UK so VODs not a problem, no one complains about watching a movie because its not live.
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United Kingdom20157 Posts
Too low quality.
If im paying for an event to view the cutting edge of high level players that is played over battlenet, not at a venue or something, then cross server is unacceptable, I have 33ms 0jitter to various english servers 3-500 miles away, but 510ms ping and 105ms jitter to Seoul, eu to kr is the worst cross server by far, but there is no point paying to view a high level of play, kespa players, nani, few others, if their play and ability and more importantly unit control is going to be destroyed by ~200+ms ping. That alone is almost a complete dealbreaker.
Secondly, and no offense to them, but Axslav and Axeltoss are not top tier casters, there are others that i and many others would pay for. If it had a free low bitrate stream and wasnt cross server, sure, id tune in to watch them, think about buying after a while, but that brings me to third point:
Casting from replays.
If the tournament is casted from replays then its just not the same, i dont even want to watch it. There have been too many games spoiled, and too many games played a week to several months in advance, or in mismatched orders, and in general it destroys the special feeling you get from watching a LIVESTREAM, and makes everything feel disconnected and meh at best
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United Kingdom20157 Posts
On September 26 2012 17:24 zaii wrote:still in Beta, and they hired the manager of Complexity dota 2 team to work on future plans.
Dota2 is still in beta? Didnt they have a million dollar tournament like last year?
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On September 26 2012 15:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 10:54 Mackus wrote: I'm implying that they're too money orientated, they're miles behind ASUS and Dreamhack and think they can charge for this stuff while the other alternatives are better and free. Not to mention the broadcasted games aren't even live, if TSL4 charged to watch there would be an absolute uproar but MLG are arrogant enough to think they're better. + Show Spoiler +They are better, they have better players, a relatively exclusive product and higher production values.
So I've worked for all 3 of these tournaments you've listed, each on more than one occasion, the whole "MLG is miles behind thing" is pretty much BS. MLG blows all of those tournaments out of the water in terms of options. Dreamhack has a 720p free stream, ok that's nice, MLG has 4-6 streams, player PoV, instant-replay VoDs and a far superior streaming setup. If possible they need to get up to 60fps from 30, that's a nice experience, but since they do 1080p rather than Dreamhacks 720p they might be hard-pressed to pull that off. I hear all this talk of "better production" from people that don't know what production is. In my experience MLG has better production overall. Dreamhack has better venues and as such provides a superior live experience. It's hard to compare the Raleigh convention centre to the Ericsson Globe. MLG could definitely do with finding some more exciting venues, they're way behind on that, not even first in the US since IPL gets better venues for their gigs. Dreamhack and MLG both suffer from downtime issues, Dreamhack is currently ahead in that respect but it's not perfect, there are still plenty of crowd-shots and lots of music filler. Dreamhack gets to use copyright music, Sweden is wonderful and all that. MLG has analysis in the bag. Analysis desk plus the replay Analysis touch-screen is more professional and provides more information than the Dreamhack Analysis couch. MLG continues to get better players, Dreamhack doesn't get top-tier Koreans as often though makes up for it somewhat with European depth of talent. MLG production value in terms of audio quality tends to be superior and that's mostly because of how they do it. They keep the casters as far away from the PA as possible, minimizing the kind of nasty reverb we got in WCS EU. There tend to be less production fuckups as well, production coming through on the stream, non-functional mics, that stuff is way less common at MLG. Their "portable studio" setup is much more effective, not to mention looks significantly more professional. MLG equipment tends to be better too, I do rather dislike the gear Dreamhack uses, those bloody around the ear mics will slice ya flesh and they don't honestly sound that great either. Much prefer the Sennheiser gear MLG uses, it's more comfortable, more robust and better quality overall. There's a reason that stuff is used for sports-casts.
Quite frankly, the gap, assuming there is one and that's a matter of opinion, is way smaller than people make it out to be. MLG needs to get it's act together in terms of filling down-time. More interviews, more action replays, more analysis. Ideally they could get 2 more booths and do the GSL style of setting up while another match is going on, to provide a constant stream of matches. 60fps would be nice but not essential, it's a luxury and one I'll happily give up if it means 1080p and less of the artifacting we see on the Dreamhack stream (which knowing those guys will probably be cleared up by next tournament, they're super smart). Both are great tournaments and yet I see Dreamhack constantly praised and MLG constantly shit on. MLG is trying to run a business entirely on the basis of their tournament content, they have a lot of paid staff, a lot of expensive equipment and many costs to deal with. Dreamhack is not just eSports, has many volunteers and a number of advantages due to their position as a "cultural" event. Both are awesome and I'm sick to death of one being praised (to the point of ignoring some of it's mistakes and faults) and the other being constantly shit on at every turn. The bias exists on both TL and Reddit, it's enormous and obvious and quite frankly needs to stop. It's destructive, it serves no practical purpose and if we were to lose either MLG or Dreamhack it'd be a huge blow to the scene as it stands. Both deserve support.
i think that the overall experience with dreamhack is better, than what mlg does. mlg does probably have the better production facilities, the better players, the better casters, but it all depends on what you do with the facilities you have. what dreamhack does is simply the best out there in terms of how the final product feels and looks for the viewer.
also dreamhack does a perfect job, when it comes to informing people when the next game will be on. i dont really have to worry about timezones, because they already show their own clock and right below the time of the next game. and all of that happens on stream, not in some website i have to open next to the stream. in mlgs all we get is "drg vs violet coming soon/up next" no time or timespan given. this is really annoying and confusing. of course its easier for dreamhack to show times of the next games, as there is only one big stream, but still..having multiple streams is not an excuse for not giving information on when exactly the next game starts, as they probably have more staff the more streams they offer.
i also prefer the simple twitch.tv player for watching livestreams, just like dh does it as i always had bad experience with the mlg live page. it just sucks too much cpu. much much more than the normal twitch.tv player, which is almost perfect and even remembering my quality and sound settings.
those 2 things are just making the final product of mlgs much worse for consumers than what dreamhack offers.
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