|
On October 19 2012 16:40 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 14:01 FakeDeath wrote:On October 19 2012 13:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On October 19 2012 13:57 ilbh wrote: you may be right about some issues in PvZ, but your suggestions are really bad. you want to nerf the shit out of zerg and that's it. lol and some of the balance suggestions you made are just non sense, there are a lot of things to consider when you make any kind of change in the game. it seems more like a QQ thread then a thought out suggestion list, even if you have some reasoning behind your complaints.
this is anything but a QQ thread, he explained why zerg was too strong, then addressed changes he would like to see and gave reasons for them and talked about how he thought the changes would affect the game. You obviously dont know what QQ is, or just have something against sase and want to flame him The moment he said put a timer on spawning pool during 1:20 or whatever the time for 10 pool is. I already wasn't taking him seriously. Unless you agreed that a timer should be put on spawning pool?LOL Sase is clearly complaining. Probably he just lost to a 6-pool recently. he kind of has a point, protoss can react perfectly to a 6pool, scout it off their 9scout and react 100% correctly and they wont be ahead at all. its impossible for a zerg to be behind after a 6pool if they play it right. this shouldnt happen. If you scout an all in and react perfectly, you should win 100% of the time, instead protoss win 50% of the time.
Wasn't it the same in BW though ?
|
On October 19 2012 15:21 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 15:20 Rekrul wrote: my 2 cents
1 cent: game is trash
2 cent: blizzard dont give a fuk
gg Haha. I think all BW needed was just a facelift.
Quoted instantly every time.
|
The thing about infestor is that it is a really effective and versatile unit. Let's talk about forcefields and storms for a bit, which have received a lot of complaints.
Forcefields only prevent from moving to a certain place. They will not lock you, neither will they damage you. Just prevent you to moving towards that one hex. Obviously you can surround the opponent's unit to make it immobile, but that costs a ton of energy. Forcefields also affect only ground units.
Storms, cause a lot of damage for a brief duration of time, but can be easily dodged and have quite a small area. Most of the times a storm only deals 20-50% damage of the full 80, as a smart player will not let his units just sit in a storm.
Fungal, on the other hand makes a clump of units 100% immobile, damages the units and affects air and ground. That is one really strong spell, and I think something needs to be done to it. Nothing drastic, but something small at least. Maybe less damage, or less duration, or more energy cost. 100 energy cost wouldn't seem ridiculous to me, not even 125. It is hard to say what is the right course of action, but that is why Blizz has the PTR patches: even if the change is bad they don't have to implement it.
I personally don't see infested terrans in any of their form a problem. They might be a bit powerful in some scenarios, but anything than a tiny nerf would feel unjustified to me.
I completely agree with SaSe that the mothership is a broken unit. The whole balance between protoss lategame armies and zerg lategame armies is gimped, and it results in gimmicky and unbalanced gameplay. The tempest could be the savior of lategame pvz, but we'll see.
Creep could be nerfed a tiny bit, but I don't think it is a huge issue. It is very strong if the zerg is an active creep spreader tho, and it feels a bit silly that the zerg can get massive vision while the toss can do virtually nothing, as the toss doesn't even have warpgates yet.
I 100% agree that spines are a problem. the fact that they can move and have such big range is very strong, and a good zerg is completely safe while teching vs any ground attack. I would suggest one of the following:
A) Spines have -1 range B) Spines don't do bonus damage vs armored.
Not sure if any of these would fix it, but something could definitely be done.
If SaSe gave 99 cents, I will give maybe 20. I am only a high master EU player after all.
|
SaSe, I think you show the problems well but your suggested solutions either are dirty hacks (e.g rampblocker), take away racial differences (e.g. static spines/spores) or create more problems.
|
SaSe makes some pretty good points, and I feel that PvZ needs to be changed up some as well, however infestors and spine walls is what makes zerg competent against protoss. Otherwise they'd just get rolled.
|
On October 19 2012 18:16 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 18:14 Insoleet wrote:On October 19 2012 17:53 SC2ShoWTimE wrote: dont agree with everything but the point with mass spines/spores and infested terrans really is true. it is incredible how many free units(0 supply units) zerg can add to an already super powerful lategame army. it is like protoss hallucination doing damage or something. 1 spine beats 2 stalker and 2 infested terrans(50 energy!!!) already beat 1 stalker(no upgrades/micro). when a zerg just spamms 20-30 infested terrans(energy of 3-4 infestors) beneath their broodlords and maybe even brought some spines with him it is pretty obvious why stalker just evaporate if they blink towards the broodlords. Please notice that without IT and Spines, zerg get crushed by lategame protoss. Or without infestors in general zerg gets crushed by terran and toss. What people need to understand - nerfing the infestor means zerg needs buffs to compensate, just like if force field were removed protoss would need to be buffed to compensate (I give this example because that is how critical infestors are for zergs due to are other units being shit). Which would be fine in my book, might open for more playstyles than just "fuck it go infestor"
|
What about a nerf on the slowling (speed,hp,attackdmg, whatever) and include whatever statnerf with metabolic boost making the slowling nerfed but the speedling remains untouched.
|
To me it seems that you above all want better scouting. You may not know it, because you don't seem to follow HotS, but currently Hallucination on the sentry will be an innate ability. Meaning you don't require an upgrade for it. So you can have a hallucinated phoenix on the field at like 7.30 after FFE and alot earlier if you are going for a gate expo. This would be a reliable form of scouting for protoss.
|
On October 19 2012 18:39 LeanMeanMacroMachine wrote: What about a nerf on the slowling (speed,hp,attackdmg, whatever) and include whatever statnerf with metabolic boost making the slowling nerfed but the speedling remains untouched.
Because 11/11 rax needs to be stronger. I'm for this change!
|
On October 19 2012 18:54 iaguz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 18:39 LeanMeanMacroMachine wrote: What about a nerf on the slowling (speed,hp,attackdmg, whatever) and include whatever statnerf with metabolic boost making the slowling nerfed but the speedling remains untouched. Because 11/11 rax needs to be stronger. I'm for this change! Its not really THAT strong if you react correctly (dont necessarily includes zerglings)...
|
All you're doing Sase is making balance suggestions and not very well thought out ones at that. If you want to discuss the state of PvZ then fine but at least try to be more objective. I do agree the match up is in a very bad place right now but nothing you're saying would solve anything.
|
Although I agree with the current imbalance, Sase is a bit biased for Protoss, as these issues are also present in TvZ, at the very least the late-game issues with Infestor/Broodlord. I really don't get where this whole "PvZ is horrible but TvZ is fine" thing is coming from for the past few months. Wake up people, Terran is having just as much trouble against Zerg in late game.
|
On October 19 2012 18:55 LeanMeanMacroMachine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 18:54 iaguz wrote:On October 19 2012 18:39 LeanMeanMacroMachine wrote: What about a nerf on the slowling (speed,hp,attackdmg, whatever) and include whatever statnerf with metabolic boost making the slowling nerfed but the speedling remains untouched. Because 11/11 rax needs to be stronger. I'm for this change! Its not really THAT strong if you react correctly (dont necessarily includes zerglings)... LOL, this guy is saying zergs don't need lings to defend a 11/11 rax! Hell yeah , genius of the year. He should be invited to blizzard as a game designer. Where have you been when dustin was thinking about rocks man!
|
On October 19 2012 18:55 LeanMeanMacroMachine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 18:54 iaguz wrote:On October 19 2012 18:39 LeanMeanMacroMachine wrote: What about a nerf on the slowling (speed,hp,attackdmg, whatever) and include whatever statnerf with metabolic boost making the slowling nerfed but the speedling remains untouched. Because 11/11 rax needs to be stronger. I'm for this change! Its not really THAT strong if you react correctly (dont necessarily includes zerglings)... But if what you're saying is true, rax should be nerfed...
|
On October 19 2012 15:20 Rekrul wrote: my 2 cents
1 cent: game is trash
2 cent: blizzard dont give a fuk
gg
sad but qft
|
Very nice post, nothing to remove from it, i hope blizzard would notice it.
|
some good ideas and some really bad ones like: give nexus ability to attack AND reveal for 50 energy. so basically you will never be harrassed again in combination with warpins since even you as pro will have 50 energy on nexus lategame.
agreed with infestor being a slow instead of root. cant wait for the new HOTS units being fine and blizzard moving on to fixing old WoL units: infestors, hydras, ultras, corruptors, void rays, carrier, DTs, BC, raven, reaper, collosus, sentry (FF).
dont think the will address the real problems which is marine hp and warpgate tech but hey, if they fix the units it will at least be a whole lot better.
|
nice read. After all the whining from you. Finally some constructive ideas concerning the infestor.
|
On October 19 2012 19:03 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 15:20 Rekrul wrote: my 2 cents
1 cent: game is trash
2 cent: blizzard dont give a fuk
gg sad but qft I always wondered why people are actually posting stuff like this? Blizzard is listening to the community, just take a look at the HOTS Beta changes that they did.
And If you guys think that the game is trash, and have nothing normal, or constructive to say, don't really know why are you posting here. Yes, you can voice your opinion, but there is no point if you don't care to explain anything, and just scream "this game sucks!".
About the OP, I agree with some of the Ideas, Infestors definitely need changing, but some of them aren't really that good. And yes, post seems biased.
|
That infestor thing on making it so units that are funneled cant be fungled is pure gold. I think it only adds skill to the game and really it may restore balance to the force from my spectator viewpoint.
The Ora le change about an attack and making something invisible is not bad, not bad at all.
Thanks for taking the time to make this Sase, and good job maintaining reason ability by stating not all of these things need implemementation
|
|
|
|