|
Bisutopia19025 Posts
I feel like if Sase took out the line with the spawning pool timer people would actually read the whole post and realize a lot of good information was given by him.
Things I agree with: -Get rid of mothership -Give Oracle new abilities -infestor burrow movement -Stalkers should have an opportunity to escape fungal -A better phoenix
Things I disagree with: -Putting a timer on spawning pool, that would cause many ZvT issues for sure
also I don't understand this one:
*Make infestors smaller so it requires more micro vs storm and collosus.
|
On October 19 2012 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Protoss certainly has a better understanding of Protoss then Zerg or Terran does... especially when he's one of the best Protoss foreigners who plays the game.
So that makes him what.... top 30 protoss in the world? At best?
PvZ has been fine for a while.
Of course there are easy ways to lose, it's the same for all races. And GSL protoss have absolutely no trouble getting scouts into the Zergs bases most of the time.
|
well... all i can say is at least he is now among his people.
|
Too bad this post started with really bad ideas, and finished with interesting ones. I would encourage people to read it until the end even if I don't agree with everything.
|
On October 19 2012 22:28 BisuDagger wrote:...snip... also I don't understand this one:
Imagine if infestors were zergling-size. Then two colossi could one shot 10 of them if you don't spread them out. That's the basic idea, just taken to an extreme I guess, but you get the picture .
|
why this thread is not closed image someone post but wipe sase's name
|
Austria24413 Posts
On October 19 2012 22:18 Gnusnu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 22:05 DarkLordOlli wrote: When zerg players start saying that protoss is too weak in PvZ, you know it's real. Looking at DRG, the best zerg in the world. I am failing to see how this qualifies DRG as a balance expert. He's not being paid nor is it his job to design the game. His job is to be successful regardless of problems. DRG may drive the car but he still wouldn't know how to build it. The point I'm trying to make is that being good at starcraft 2 and knowing the inner workings of it are not mutually inclusive qualities.
While I absolutely 100% agree with you, it is kind of missing the point. DRG is not making any balance suggestions, simply stating that in his experience as someone who plays the game more than 99% of everybody else, he feels like protoss is too weak against zerg. And since he plays the game this much and has such good understanding of the game (obviously, he's damn good), he is absolutely qualified to judge overall balance in my opinion.
|
Ugh a progamer making such awful suggestions like time counter on pool or saying that protoss is in a disadvantage early/mid is pretty dissapointing for me. I can only agree that infestor is a bit too good (you basically have to make it in every matchup to win) so it should be nerfed a bit and something else buffed. Would love to see idrA comment on your thoughts :D
|
I see alot of complaints about how infestors are the only thing that zergs go but... If you only had 1 good tier 2 unit what would you do? Mutas are nothing compared to what they were in brood war. banelines cannot be microed too much only amoved and spread a little (although I do think mines are wayy under used oh and I consider speedblings tier 2 or 1.5 btw). hydras are terrible kinda against everything Except mayyybeee sky terran and who does that vs zerg(even then infestors are better). I dont think that the problem itself lies with the infestor, but rather the problem is that the other units are so bad. hydras are bad... Ultras are pretty meh.... they can be a hit or a miss great for quick tech switches but protoss and terran dont need to go to any trouble to counter ultras because they already have robo and mauraders available. Honestly I think brood lords should just have a slower reload time. like Wayyyy slower(not as slow as the swarm host though.. That'd be ridiculous). This way brood lords would be able to have that spike damage when combined with fungal. That way final in final engagements I could trade more cost efficiently. OR!! just make fungal Slow flying units... so I get hit with a fungal oh shit I was being retarded and 8 of my voids got hit. I'll spread them. now you're gonna hit 4 with a fungal. Something like that would make air better. God i'm just talking out my ass oh well i'm done
|
mutas were good enough to prompt david kim to add in an upgrade that seems to have been forgotten by everyone
|
Bisutopia19025 Posts
On October 19 2012 22:33 budar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 22:28 BisuDagger wrote:...snip... also I don't understand this one: *Make infestors smaller so it requires more micro vs storm and collosus.
Imagine if infestors were zergling-size. Then two colossi could one shot 10 of them if you don't spread them out. That's the basic idea, just taken to an extreme I guess, but you get the picture . Thanks I do now
I honestly thought oh man there will be so much space between them storms would be worse if they were smaller. But then you reminded me this is SC2 ai and they eff-ing hate space.
|
On October 19 2012 22:48 petrox wrote: mutas were good enough to prompt david kim to add in an upgrade that seems to have been forgotten by everyone It's mostly because the upgrade comes at a time that it's no longer useful.
|
Please discuss this with other pros before make a post like this up because its quality is like every random post from avilo that terran is too weak. And those daily balance or unit/spell invention posts appear daily on TL.
|
There are some good suggestions, but the fact that the whole OP is filled with bad suggestions too, that you would find on the bnet forum made by a gold league poster, doesn't make this OP very good. Now you come more over like you're whining over the game and are suggesting ridiculous things. Like a spawning pool timer till 1:20? That's just stupid and "doesn't make any sense".
|
LOTS of people not reading what he said.. jesus christ. He didn't say IMPLEMENT ALL OF THESE. He said (clearly) "here are some suggestions, pick some of them".
|
PvZ is definately in a weird spot right now from the toss point of view, I sense a shift in meta game :D
|
Sase's Korean TLPD record vs Z = 35%
For comparison, Rain = 70%, Squirtle = 63%, JYP = 66%.
Protoss pro who is extremely bad in matchup makes a giant nerf post, everyone jumps on the opportunity to join in on the whine fest about how every single Zerg unit, even creep tumors, are overpowered.
This thread is sad and hilarious at the same time.
|
I can get behind most of your changes Sase but infested Terrans unable to shoot up would make toss late game with carriers unstoppable especially if mothership stays in. It's already bad enough trying to beat that let alone without infested terrans.
|
On October 19 2012 22:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 22:18 Gnusnu wrote:On October 19 2012 22:05 DarkLordOlli wrote: When zerg players start saying that protoss is too weak in PvZ, you know it's real. Looking at DRG, the best zerg in the world. I am failing to see how this qualifies DRG as a balance expert. He's not being paid nor is it his job to design the game. His job is to be successful regardless of problems. DRG may drive the car but he still wouldn't know how to build it. The point I'm trying to make is that being good at starcraft 2 and knowing the inner workings of it are not mutually inclusive qualities. While I absolutely 100% agree with you, it is kind of missing the point. DRG is not making any balance suggestions, simply stating that in his experience as someone who plays the game more than 99% of everybody else, he feels like protoss is too weak against zerg. And since he plays the game this much and has such good understanding of the game (obviously, he's damn good), he is absolutely qualified to judge overall balance in my opinion.
You're right DRG isn't making any balance suggestions. So why is it ok for Sase (or you) to do? Which one of these leads to more reasonable discussion?
A: "I think Protoss being designed with more specialized units has lead to a lack of more well rounded units to fill the gap in the Protoss arsenal. This becomes a more apparent problem in the face of certain enemy unit compositions."
B: "Remove forcefields because they make Immortal all-ins too strong."
The latter example is all over the OP. The former is nowhere to be found.
|
On October 19 2012 22:03 MaddeLisk wrote: This sure made me laugh^^
may i ask you why?
|
|
|
|